Winds of Winter Predictions: Hand of the Dragon
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- Опубліковано 5 бер 2020
- ADWD left off with Daenerys Targaryen confronting a great Khalasar in the Dothraki Sea with her dragon, but she's going to return to Meereen eventually - and when she does, it may be Tyrion Lannister that she finds keeping the peace. Will Tyrion become the "Hand of the Dragon," and what sort of advice will he give Daenerys?
Winter's Winds are blowing, and @Quinn's Ideas and @Lucifer means Lightbringer are bringing you the 23 most-anticipated plotlines of George R. R. Martin's The Winds of Winter during the month of March. Make sure to subscribe to both of our channels if you don't want to miss any of the videos in this series!
Quinn's channel: / @quinnsideas
Battle of Meereen TWOW preview vid: • Winds of Winter Predic...
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Interesting that Tyrion does seem to be embracing his "twisted monkey demon" persona to a certain degree. I can't tell if he's hit rock bottom yet, maybe he has and is on an upward trajectory, but even so, the darkness he's been embracing in ADWD is going to affect the choices he makes, especially when it comes to KL and his remaining family in Westeros. If he had any qualms about destroying KL, they're gone because he blames KL for turning on him/not giving him credit for the Blackwater. He may not be a complete devil on Dany's shoulder, but I think he will offer temptations for her to give in to the "Fire and Blood" mantra. Like many others looking for Dany, he WANTS her ruthlessness as a tool he can wield against those who harmed him. Most everyone wants to weaponize Dany, and I think Tyrion is no different, just with a different target in mind.
Anything is better than urging caution as her armies get ripped.
I hope the imp himself hand writes the hundreds of letters that are sent out to every lord high or low.
Raise the dragon banner or burn.
As long as they don’t Abe Lincoln him like in the show.
But, I think he won’t be the devil on her shoulder forever because I def def buy that he’s the betrayal for gold. Gold as in Lannister gold so he will try to save his family, betraying dany, at KL
I don't think he betrays Dany fully. I think it's like in the show that he still helps and wants her to get the throne but he ends up realizing that he doesn't want his family to die and tries to help them escape from their fate.
Eric Sterner I hope it’s nothing like the show. Cuz the show Tyrion sucks
I think* he's hit rock bottom in so far as his self pity, self destructive behaviors, hid turnaround being cemented when he escaped and took Penny and Jorah. I do not however, think he's going to be a good guy by any stretch of the imagination.
One thing i really missed from the show is that scene where Jaime's aunt tells him how Tyrion is the one between the 3 Lannister siblings who is more like Tywin. Then again, the Tywin always made the right moves and the later Tyrion from the show was incompetent as f***
Gemma is such a great character, and that scene totally slays. Have a feeling George will find good ways to use her and that dynamic... Cersei will eventually flee to casterly, and Jaime is wandering the riverlands, so there are a couple ways that could work
Tyrion is incompetent in the books too. Not like the show of course. But quite a lot. I feel bad for Tywin sometimes.
But Tyrion I’m pretty sure is the betrayal for gold. So when the get back to Westeros in a book that will never be written that’s what I’d be looking for. Is the “gold” his family or is it casterly rock or both?
I love Aunt Gemma in the books! How she punks emmon Frey ( I think it's emmon Frey it's been a while) is awesome lol the whole chapter with Jaime in the river lands talking with Gemma is great. Gives alot of insight to the Lannister family as a whole.
@@joshhoffman5233 Lol Tywin? You mean the loser who hid in Harrenhall until a combination of Littlefinger, Tyrion, Edmure, Balon, Mace, Stannis and insane luck gave him the victory?
Another random Tristan I didn’t say he was invincible I said I feel bad for him. Cuz his kids suck so much.
But he was pretty bad ass. That did fucking suck how if edmure hadn’t held him up the fools in KL would’ve been wiped out. Supposedly anyway. that was from other people’s POV and George is extremely explicit about not believing things just because characters believe it.
But it pisses me off because they’re like “you were told to hold riverrun” like edmure should’ve known. In fact, according to whathisface rivers the Frey bastard who escorts Catilyn back to riverrun the order was “hold riverrun and guard his (Robb’s) rear.”
So NOT Ed’s fault in my book.
This should be a regular thing. You two really work well together. It's almost like a talk show. I'm really enjoying this set up too
I also agree. Just found this and I'm already out...
I agree they're great
The Show did a reverse of the books; In the show it was her advisors who tried to keep her in check, in the books her advisors constantly tell her to act cruelly and ruthlessly and she is the one to repel those ideas; Tyrion can be convincing when he wants to though, more so than the Shavepate ever could.
Something to add for the Tyrion/White-Lion/Viserion theme: there's a scene in the books where Dany is wearing a cloak made of a white lion's pelt and a moment later Viserion appears and rests on Dany's shoulder. Clash of kings (Daenerys 1)
Yep, you’re totally right about that. There’s also a scene where Tyrion picks up a bloody cyvasse piece in Ben Plumms tent, it’s the white dragon. Then Viserion flies overhead.
I have a feeling Tyrion is going to be the gargoyle on Dany’s shoulder. He is a much darker character, much earlier in the books than I previously realized.
It’s just likely that Dany will cure his cynicism
When Genna Lannister said Tyrion was his father's son rather than Jaime, I knew then to expect a kind of ruthlessness in his character. I wish we could have seen more of that in the show
In the ACoK prologue Maester Cressen wonders if his gargoyles had ever seen "...that color, that terrible color, the color of blood and flame, and sunsets." and then ponders "If stone tongues could speak..."
A bit of a stretch, but what if Tyrion goes to far with Dany and she has his tongue removed? It would almost make sense for a character with such a silver tongue to lose his ability to manipulate. If tyrion couldn't speak anymore, what can he do? Write. Does the series end with him writing "A Song of Ice and Fire?"
Probably not, but interesting to think about.
I keep forgetting how young the Dragon Queen Daenerys is in the books. After what happened in the show I just want her 2 find the house with the red door even if it's the Red Keep. The Dragons know.
Re: "Gargoyle Mythology". The gargoyles put on medieval churches were water spouts to keep rain water from running down the exterior walls. "Gargoyle" is an Anglicized spelling of a French word which cognates with the English word " to gurgle" (Fr. "gargouiller"). So a gargoyle is essentially a gurgler.
Quinn “it will be cool for Tyrion to point out to Dany all the things she’s been doing wrong”
Me: what’s Dany been doing wrong? It’s Selmy who’s messing up all her hard work.
These are the best, love the collab. What is dead may never die
But rises again harder and stronger
What is dead may never die.
I haven’t felt this excited about ASOIF since the disappointment that was the show ended. Thank you Quinn and LML!
I made my peace with the show by seasons 6 & 7. I've just been re-reading the books over and over. I just read through Fire & Blood and A Knight Of The Seven Kingdoms again. I can't get enough of them and this collab is just the cherry on top.
I'm very excited to see what blossoms with Tyrion, Dany and the control of the three dragons (and the three heads? A girl can dream). He should know a *lot* about the history of dragon riders and dragon lords. Couple that with Daenerys and her actual dragons, particularly "her mount", Drogon...I'm very excited.
We are promised three dragon riders. I'd love for Tyrion to be one of them.
I think Tyrion may find Tysha but she'll hate him and blame him for what happened.
He still has one connection - Mrycella - Tyrion was considering starting a Lannister civil war with her and Dorne at the helm but decided against it since it would probably end with her dead. If he wanted to hurt Cersei as much as possible, he'd go after her children. I think the only person that might be as smart as Tyrion is Doran Martell considering he knew Dorne would be better off with a Targaryan than a Lannister/Baratheon (Think back to Tyrion's game/test with Aegon, "never abandon your dragon" and all that), he's even hesitant about young Griff actually being the son of Rhaegar and pursuing any schemes with him, preferring to hold out for Daenerys's actual dragons. Being smarter than Tyrion remains to be confirmed, as Dorans long game might be only be a footnote compared to whatever Varys has him wrapped up in. He at least has a decent sense of intuition and patience, very lacking traits in his brother and daughter.
Back on topic, Tyrions connection to Mrycella and potential one to Tommen might be irrelevant considering Maggy the Toad's vision and a rabid Darkstar on the loose. He'll probably be free to go scorched Earth by the last book.
Wait, wait, wait! I just thought of something when you mentioned Tyrion lining up with the white dragon from Dany's vision. Was it not on the first book that Drogo gave Dany a lion skin? A white lion pelt from one of his hunts. Am I imagining things here? Am I seeing way too much into it, or did GRRM actually plant the seed of that idea into our minds long, long ago?
Yeah, that's absolutely possible - I think we mentioned the white lion pelt in passing, but didn't go into it. She sees a vision of the White Lion in the House of the Undying also, so it's a thread that George has been developing
The white lion pelt came from a rare beast, on the Dothraki sea. A giant white lion. Drogo did bring its pelt back and gift it to Dany. After she hatched the eggs and they start to travel through the Red Wastes, Dany dons the hide to cover her bald head.
@@tris2947 Isn't Tyrion described to have vitiligo like patches of white hair between his blond? It would even make the colour fit.
Tyrion is a lion and dragon. In the womb, perhaps there were twins, one ate the other, and he is the result. That's why his hair is two-toned. Jaime n Cercei are Targarion want-to-be's.
@@Saturos226 Tyrion's hair is described so fair blonde, it appears white, with few black strands here and there. When he grows a beard it's a mix of yellow, white and black. hmmm hmmm? 😗
Man this is the content i love watching i really dig listening to smart ppl talk about W.O.W. predictions for the way they see the story going
It's time to wash out the show canon and think TWOW!
Lucifer means Lightbringer darn right
jsizemore1449 let’s get used to it because DoS will be entirely a book made into canon by internet debates among the fandom lol
NAME A BETTER DUO ILL WAIT
Preston and carmine! Of course I’m new to these two. Just recently subscribed when I realized they were doing these videos.
@@joshhoffman5233 These guys have a ton of great content! Def go back n check out their other theories, super interesting.
Zeery you’re def right I’ve been watching a few just now. Really good. I’d never thought of Dany as the moon and drogon pure as the sun in doreas birth of dragons myth! Awesome stuff
Dany and Tyrion or Quinn and LML or "bittycal" bitter and cynical?
@@devoleno Quinn & lml😈😈
Tyrion doesn't want Jamie dead im not convinced of that at all. He still remembers him fondly before remembering
For sometime i had proyected the idea of the dua Dany/Tyrion like those of Catherine the Great/Nikita Panin, Elizabeth I/Cecil or Walsinham or Isabel de Castilla/Chacon. A great female monarch with a great minister but well a little dark as Talleirand
HIOG2003 , GRRM concoted Tyrion from a mix of Richard III and Talleyrand. The last one, who seems to have also been his model for Larry the Clubbfoot Strong, was, not only unloved by his family during his life time, but quite a misunderstood political player.
And, unlike Richard, Talleyrand died in his bed, in his 80’s, with his mistress-niece by his side.
@@monaradu5165 you are right Talleyrand and Richard III are quite fit for Tyrion
For all that Tywin is hated for, at one time he really was an effective Hand of the King to Aerys II. So well did he do his job that Aerys II began to hear rumors that Tywin was the one really ruling Westeros and the Seven Kingdoms. This began his paranoia about Tywin and the beginning of Tywin and Aerys II falling out. Tyrion was alive for this and knows how his father was in totality and will likely use the better attributes that is father showed as Hand of the King.
hey that's a good point - there are some better examples for him to follow farther back in Tywin's life
I feel like Tywin was fine for the most part. The Tysha thing was messed up and Tywin wasn’t too forgiving of that situation. And he was mean to Tyrion. And he was a huge hypocrite regarding the sex workers because that tunnel Tyrion was using was dug for him.
This dude was just trying to get his kids to behave to carry on house Lannister and he’s got them all acting like morons to some degree or another. I sympathize with Tywin.
@@joshhoffman5233 Tywin was fine up till his wife died. Then he became more and more cruel, losing even his ability to smile. He didn't love his children, not even his "golden" twins, and he hated Tyrion for his deformity, his bringing the death of Joanna and because his ego was hurt to have a disabled son. He only used his children to get power, admiration and to consolidate the family name. He used Cersei as a broodmare, Tyrion as a scapegoat and Jaime as a military leader of his army. When Jaime was the Mad king's hostage, Tywin was sacking the capital without fearing he could be killed in retribution. When Jaime was a hostage in Riverrun, his father gave him up for dead and went on with his war plans. Cersei cried and banged Lancel who reminded her of Jaime and only Tyrion tried to rescue him, a debt he pays later when freeing Tyrion from the black cells. Tywin needlessly tortured Tysha, when he could have sent her to the Faith or other honorable way to annul her marriage. The Red Wedding is another abomination. He knew he could lose to Robb in combat so he killed him at a wedding, cowardly.
Laly Windland yeah I’m with you on his treatment of Tyrion and tysha. Def some issues there. I sympathize with Tyrion disliking Tywin for all of it. But I also sympathize with Tywin when he’s like “you threatened your nephew to save a whores virtue?” And while that’s happening we def do understand where Tyrion is coming from but at the same time... wtf Tyrion. And then Tyrion is like I want gratitude. I don’t see anyone else in the story getting all pissy for gratitude. Tyrion saying he wanted casterly rock made sense. But for real he was getting played by shay and probably Varys through her. That was addictive/clowney behavior. Varys tells him so. Tywin is right to doubt him for that. Tyrion himself knows in his own head several times that he’s a total assclown for being fooled into thinking he and a sex worker have a real romantic relationship. Dan and Dave were fooled by it too apparently so I rest my case right there.
The rest of it not so much. To be a wartime lord you have to be cutthroat he couldn’t just lay down because they had Jamie prisoner. And I really don’t see how he could’ve handled the end of rebellion situation much differently.
And the red wedding was pretty essential. He couldn’t miss that chance. Especially since the Freys volunteered for it.
And also I don’t think Jamie freeing Tyrion was in exchange for trying to rescue him I think it was combination guilt over Tysha and just in general how unfair it was.
Speaking of which there’s something I fault Tywin for. I guess it was quite easy to believe Tyrion killed Joffrey but Tywin didn’t catch onto (far as we know) the little finger tyrell connection, even though Tyrion drew attention to it when he said “Baelish told us about the plot to take sansa to high garden? Not our master of whisperers?” He wasn’t nearly as suspicious of Baelish as he should have been. Tywin I mean.if Tyrion was a little smarter he would’ve followed Tywins initial suggestion of chopping all their heads off right when he got to the city. Would’ve been safer.
Joffrey: My father won the real war he defeated Rhagar on the Trident while you hid under Casterly Rock "..Tywin: The King is tired Pycell give him some Night shade and put him down for a nap"...great scene of many when Tywin was around...
Thanks for these dude. It's tough waiting 2 weeks between Preston's videos. This is much needed in the UA-cam world of IAF
I wonder if tyrion will fall in love with daenerys in the books 🤔
I want Dany to fall in love with Tyrion. Haha. But I'm not writing the books.
Dany with Tyrion whould be great, a mix of Romeo and Juliette because of the families and Beauty and the Beast. Then Jon could be with Val because he belongs to the north, I can't see him as Targ somehow.
Maybe not, but I do want to see them creating the sibling like bond they couldn't make with Cersei and Viserys, If he doesn't be the devil on Dany's shoulder!
The collab that was promised
Excellent stuff , LmL , just watched the one on Quinn's channel and this one back to back , myself and many are going to get so spoiled getting content almost every day for a month from you. Initially I was very bummed about the show but not too long after it just got me more excited for TWoW and put that mess behind us. I had long considered the series and books separate entities based on how the show deviated so much and now I am fully focused on the books. Pertaining to the first vid in this series on Quinn's channel , I can not wait until we get how that whole Meereen situation nd battle plays out and that convergence of Victarion , Moqorro , Marwyn arriving , with Tyrion and Barristan already there and Dany coming back at some point. Definitely looking forward to the size , scale and details of that conflict in the books. And highly curious to see the results of what looks like the blowing of the dragon-binder horn in very near future in the narrative , might be asking too much but we may even get the Horn of Winter blown in the same book to see exactly what that horn does as well , although that may be more likely for ADoS.
As for this vid with Tyrion in total agreement with you LmL , book Tyrion is very different to the massively whitewashed show version. Book Tyrion is going down a very dark path and done some pretty heinous stuff. Tyrion does not have that connection or semblance of family left with Jaime like the show gave us (although book could always change course with that relationship ) and overall think he will be taking a rather dark ruthless path of retribution with little restraint. I enjoy reading Tyrion's chapters but he is without question on a dark arc that the show massively diverged from and when I read his chapters I do get bad vibes as much as I do find them quality and enjoyable. Will be interesting seeing Tyrion's interaction with those other integral characters in Meereen and I do believe he will show his wits and acumen in governance and advisory roles going forward.
Look forward to this whole series from you LmL , I am eagerly anticipating TWoW , so its nice to get a series like this to highlight the vast amount of interesting concepts , elements , character arcs and general plot at play in TWoW. I just hope GRRM sticks to the schedule and does not miss yet another deadline and has Winds mostly done for that Con he mentioned in the summer and we get a autumn / next winter actual release.
Brown Ben has always been at war with Eastasia.
Im psyched for winds of winter and these videos are getting me more pumped up. Starting reading the books when the show ended because I was so annoyed and nothing made sense. Both your channels have been mind blowing 😁😁😁
Larrisa Mayy same. I can wait, especially after how disappointing the show was
Love listening to the both of you together, the set and backdrop look great.
This was so cute “He’ll be a little gargoyle to ward off the evil spirits for Dany.”
I love it.-
I'm loving this series... can't wait for other vids... congrats
thanks vanessa!
Its funny because I stumbled on your work way back in maybe 2015 on the forums, before you even had a channel I think, but then lost you. I rediscovered you here on youtube 3-4 years ago and its been incredible ever since.
Every video you make is incredible if I may be so bold, and most if not all of your ideas are just so well thought out. Its clear you put a lot of work into your videos, especially the newer ones (and I know this is an older one) so please keep it up!
Interesting that the Lannister sigil is the lion, and Tyrion was supposed to be fed to the lions and Tywin basically fed Tyrion and the mountain clans to the "lions" in battle.
Just went back and rewatched all of these! You guys are my absolute favorite. Stay safe for the night is dark and full of corona
The white lion, the tokar she wore to feel protected that Drogo gave her. Oh this is good stuff guys!
The tokar is the local slavers bay garb. The white lion pelt isn’t a tokar.
Sorry I’m an ice and fire detail nerd
Great Video as always. But I still miss those talk videos with just book artwork in the background. But I think we have a good mix up here. Keep the great work up you two, the books are still on top of the fantasy hill.
I will just ignore the people who trash on ASoIaF, just because the series was trash.
Imagine LotR having garbage movies, then everyone would trash about that story aswell. People are sheep.
I'm still waiting for a Jorah WoW episode!
Straight outta finishing the 1st video!
Thanks for watching!
Guys, thank you for this lovely and well timed series. I am so excited for this book and for springtime and have to express how much I appreciate your high level content and all the work that goes into it.
I will listen to this and plant some lettuce and feel sure my own dreams of spring can come true :)
Hey this is some good content I'm happy and glad I subscribed.
Heck yeah!
My thanks !
Targaryen Tyrion stuff was almost entirely in the first third of GOT. I’m thinking George was def planning to go that way but now I wonder.
I think that's another example of George planting seeds. Not every seed will sprout necessarily but its there. I always thought it more likely that jaime and cersei were targaryens than Tyrion.
Jesse James [yung turt] really? That’s interesting. I’m curious why you say so. Tyrion has the hair more. And the dragon dreams. That’s a huge one right there.
Jesse James [yung turt] and yeah he had a lot of seeds. Like Jamie being warden of the East and how that looked like some catastrophe waiting to happen. That never turned into anything. And it makes me kind of cringe because it makes zero sense that the warden of the East would be A. Not a lord from the East and B. And random Kingsguard knight. And Edward warns Robert that Jamie will inherit the west and that will put half the armies into the hands of one house. So apparently they didn’t have kingsguard vows at that point in the writing process.
That whole part is just... ew...
@@joshhoffman5233 well, targaryens are prone to incest, so are jaime and cersei. Targaryens are famously beautiful. Jaime and cersei are as well. They also say to flip a coin when a targaryen is born and they will be mad or great. Cersei is mad, jaime is an amazing swordsman. Jaime has prophetic dreams, but that could just be because he slept with his head on a weirwood stump. Cersei loves fire/wildfire. Her arc goes pretty parallel to aerys' with her descent to madness. Also, the idea that the son Tywin despises is actually his only true born heir is poetic justice. Tyrion is the most like Tywin. Theres a part where Jaime is in the westerlands and his aunt Jenna (I think) says that Tyrion is Tywins true son, not jaime. And how she said that to tywin and he wouldnt speak to her for years. Also I've speculated that Tyrion was disfigured because Tywin tried to have him aborted as a baby, which lead to his wife's death also. It really would be poetic justice if the son he thought was Aerys' is actually his own blood, and the son he cherishes is actually not his. Idk I just see way more targaryen signs with jaime and cersei than i do with Tyrion, other than the bit in the first book about his hair, and his fascination with dragons.
@@joshhoffman5233 yeah that part bugs me too. I dont see how a kings guard who swears to inherit no lands and have no children could be a warden of the east lol. I think that was a mistake by George an that's why it just kinda dies there
Dany is due to be betrayed for Blood, yeah? i predict Tyrion is this betrayal, because he's too focused on revenge against his blood.
This series of videos was a great idea and I've been enjoying all of them! Keep it up!
Thanks for these videos, guys!
They're simply amazing 👏
Loved you guys for a long while, now. Glad to see you two holding true to the books and keeping the excitement high for the eventual Winds of Winter.
I've always wished Preston collaborated more with these guys than Carlile carmine
Another great video gentleman. Much impressive, keep 'em comin!
I want a small LmL action figure to put on my desk.
Ambitious Witch Izalith Ah, are you also a connoisseur of prime lore? A fan of Vaati I presume :)
Yeah I wouldn't say no to that.
I'll get Hasbro right on it
@@DavidLightbringer - LML and Quinn Funkos!
Me too
You two do a great job together I'm loving it. I was being little in the blues because Winds of winter is such a long wait but all good now when I'm back to watching your playlist videos. ❣
I really love your guy's videos and the passion you both have. You guys always get my hyped for Winds. Thanks gentleman I appreciate your hard work.
PTSD tends to make you emotionally detached. From both your trauma and reality.
Two years and a day ago--checked the date when I saw you guys sitting together, a few days before the world changed! Can't wait to see the video's you'll make when it's out!
Tyrion will probably uncover the identity of the leader of Sons of Harpy. Personally I think the leader is the Green Grace Galazza Galare. She has the will, wits and the connections to lead the Harpies. She sometimes subtly hints her hidden hatred for Daenerys. Only after she confirms that Daenerys won't execute the child hostages the Harpies frequently attack the slaves and the Unsullied. Only after she brokers a marriage between Daenerys and Hizdahr zo Loraq does the Harpies stop killing slaves. I think Hizdahr tried to poison Daenerys according to her plan. She even tries to manipulate Ser Barristan.
Tend to agree here, she makes a lot of sense as the prime suspect
so nice to see you guys together. great video ;)
I’m loving this collaboration. You two work well together
Colabs between you two are always awesome!
Love you guys. Thanks for the content!
Thank you for watching!
There's a line Illyrio or Varys says about (f)Aegon, that he has been bred to rule and experienced all these different things.. but who really has experienced more in life and the different social classes than Tyrion since his trip to Winterfell and the Wall? captive, clansman, solider, kings hand, inspiring leader, captive, exile, boat life, slave/mummer
1 year ago I found your Channel with this series. I found myself angry and appalled at what I took for arrogance, dismissing many of the theories I had.. I had to go back through all of your videos, starting with the first upload and watching cronilogically by upload, to understand what you are talking about and if I can follow it. Well here I am 1 year later, ready to rewatch this March prediction series. Thank you LML for the great content, I've enjoyed every minute
Haha I totally get that and thank you for giving my analysis a chance. It’s actually not uncommon for good writers to have a layer of symbolism and metaphor, but GRRM has taken it to another level.
Great format and content, this'll be a good series :D
amazing video, guys!!!
You guys are the best. I'm loving this series👍👍
Even though you are in front of a beautifull sunset, it seems like its cold :)
Great video! keep em comming!
so excited for this - thank you!
I love this series, I hope you continue to do more like it. I've been noticing some broad stroke similarities between Tyrion and Brynden Rivers. Both marked at birth; Tyrion's dwarfism and Brynden's birth mark and albinism. Both receiving pretty intense facial scars later in life. Both served as hand to the king, both proving themselves in battle where they received their facial scars. There's red and white imagery used for both; although Tyrion doesn't have the raven/wizard imagery surrounding him like Brynden, there is white lion imagery, which may tie into Daenery's visions. In both cases there is also a willingness to take morally questionable actions for the greater good. Both labled "kinslayer", and both had to go into exile over said kinslaying. Both are quite manipulative and tend to be several steps ahead of everyone else in the Game. Although Tyrion was not a bastard like Brynden, he did say "all dwarfs are bastards in their father's eyes". It will be interesting to see where Tyrion ends up at the conclusion of everything, especially if he ended up at the wall. Anyway thanks for the great information and I really hope you keep putting out videos like this. I'm excited for what's to come
LmL you are my favourite creator in asoiaf content! I can't wait for your twow analysis man, top guy and great work 👍🌟
I think Tyrion will go full Tywin. Including looking out for house Lannister and betraying Dany when the time comes “betrayal for gold”
Sure... But considering his now ample disdain for Tywin I think he'll actively try to not be Tywin. Become Aerys' hand that also liked to burn people. He'll be Dany's little devil-on-the-shoulder.
This is dope.
How'd you know that's how we made the video
Lol let's call it intuition
"The winds of winter are blowing" is the theory most want to be true...
Great job with these videos, guys. Really helping in building that anticipation of Winds. Please God let it be this year.
I think you mean please Santa
I'm going to slightly disagree on a point: I don't think Tyrion will just force the hand of Dany, so to speak, to destroy Cersei, Tyrion repeatedly says HE, himself, wants to hurt/kill Cersei.
& I don't believe that once Dany figures out how "played" she was in Meereen she will be so easily manipulated by Tyrion or anyone. I think she'll be highly skeptical of everyone.
But that's just my opinion/interpretation.
Yeah I agree with all that, I'm not picturing him forcing Dany's hand, but rather perhaps withholding information, such as knowledge of the wildfire caches. I do agree with you that at some point Tyrion will look to take an active role himself.
Yeah, I agree, but Dany might be pushed to the extreme once she arrives to Westeros to see it has already been conquered by a 'mumer's dragon'. I think fAegon will play a huge role in forcing Dany to burn the Red Keep, and will generally be the reason why Dany will be so hated once she lands in Westeros. He will conquer KL, start restoring peace to a war torn country and gain the love and support of everyone, nobles and smallfolk alike. By the time Dany lands (on Greyjoy ships, a family that is hated by everyone in Westeros, with an army of foreign savages that will have probably already destroyed Essos by then), his grasp on the IT will be firm, and she will be viewed as a Usurper, a female claimant, the daughter of a hated King coming to take the throne from the rightful heir, the son of a beloved prince, and bring more war to a country already sick of it.
This, combined with the death of one of her dragons, a few advisors, and generally, everything going bad for her might make her more susceptible to Tyrion's advice to just burninate the Red Keep and be done with it. At that point. Tyrion's words might not seem like manipulation to her, bud sound advice she should have followed from the start.
woah march 2020 is going to be legendary moment with u guys. on we go!!
LOVE the content direction with WoW coming in a year hopefully :)
I would love for Tyrion to be one of the three dragon riders. Tyrion deserves to fly high on a dragon's back.
I think it might happen just for a moment, and kind of accidentally - like he just hops on in the midst of battle or some crazy sitch and has himself that dragonride he's always wanted
Very interesting to remember how much richer the books are than the series. I had forgotten about Penny.
Is your channel named what it is as a reference to the Empire of the Dawn, and Lightbringer? (Aka Azor Ahai) Or just a nice coincidence?
Because Lucifer can also mean "dawn" more literally. Also like the empire and the sword.
So I think Lucifer meaning these things probably does have big theme implications we don't fully understand yet
Oh for sure. I've been going on about Lightbringer and Venus for at least 5 years. Here's my initial essay on that (which has a video at the link also)
lucifermeanslightbringer.com/2016/07/03/lucifer-means-lightbringer-2/
This is the content we need right now
Beautiful set
You guys should look into Dark Souls/Bloodborne, it's right up both your alleys
I know I've used a piece of art from Dark Souls, it's a warrior with a fire sword looking at en eclipse, lol, so it's fairly useful
For the uninitiated--it's a series of games inspired by ancient mythologies in Dark Souls (a la Joseph Campbell) and cosmic horror themes in Bloodborne--and the world is built and framed through extensive in-game lore and in-world mythologies with minimal actual exposition
All this talk of Tyrion being a sort of gargoyle that wards off the worst of westoros from Daenarys is interesting especially when you consider that talk he had with Jon Snow about embracing the fact that he's a bastard because the world will never let him forget it mayhaps Tyrion's arc in Winds will be him properly & fully embracing this Imp & demon-monkey symbolism that has been rife around him
Quinn, you finally got a better hat! Thank you! Stick with that one man, and the ladies will love it-- PS: You guys are both fantastic, I've probably seen all of each of your videos--keep up the fantastic work LML, Quinn!
I liked his old hat booo
I can't agree. The fedora is the Best. Hat. Ever!
@@countbalerionofhousetatter2624 Maybe in 2006.
@@CamRStanford I don't think it's a matter of the year, but of taste. Some like fedoras; others prefer backwards baseball caps; the Damphair and his bros liked to go around wearing live squids on their heads, and who am I to say they were wrong?
Quinn is really starting to grow on me. He's a nice compliment to you, LML. And that goes both ways. :) Quinn, sorry I've not paid you much mind since my exit from UA-cam, you're alright, my friend. :)
Tyrion comments about being a second son when joining the second sons, obviously thinking of being Tywin's son. If he can ride a dragon, that must mean the daddy Mad King Aerys theory is true! In which case, he would be Aerys's SECOND SON, as well as Joanna's.
That would mean Tywin was forced by Aerys to hand over Joanna for at least one night. If you consider how deep Tywin's convictions on duty to the family, in his mind he HAD to be the Hand because it made his family stronger. And keeping Tyrion alive and keeping his secret were necessary to protect the family. Obviously it would look bad for the family. Perhaps even more important though, he is a Lannister, the second son of Joanna Lannister.
Tyrion not being Tywin's son would undo a lot of the meaning of Tyrion.
@@mavsworld1733 Even if he's not direct blood, he's still Tywin's son.
@@emarti3853 Tywin was an arrogant foot obsessed with outer appearance. The son that most resembles him though is Tyrion, which is poetic irony. He spends the whole time wishing Tyrion wasn't his son. To then go, actually you're right Tyrion was never your son, undoes all this meaning. It would make it all a waste and prove Tywin right. Jaime and Cersei being secret Targs would from a literary perspective be better.
I’ve listened to a few breakdowns of the text and there are references throughout about Tyrion being a “fool” and foreshadowing of getting his tongue cut out. What a horrible fate for Tyrion if he ends up at Dany’s side as her Fool with his tongue cut out. Hearing and seeing everything (like Mushroom) and having to figure out a way to communicate with her. Euron IS fond of ripping out tongues and GRRM has maimed so many of his characters. Tyrion losing his tongue would be worse than anything else that has happened to him. It would be horrible to be in his head for that.
I love you guys' video about ASOIAF. I wish I had found you guys sooner. I'm listening to the audiobooks for like the 6th time now lol. I only recently realized that the narrator is the guy that plays Grand Maester Pycell! Fuckin wild!
no the pyromancer Hallyene
Very cool, very swag. I like it!
Would you guys consider doing a (f)Aegon episode? I personally lean towards that being Rhaegar's son and heir smuggled away
We did do a FAegon episode! It’s in the playlist
Do you not think that Tyrion's time spent as a slave will soften him somewhat, with regards to the price the smallfolk pay for war? I do agree he's gone dark and vengeance is on his mind, but I also think/hope he's learned from his experiences after leaving Westeros.
I agree. I think Tyrion will become a better person again.
What he really wants is recognition of his intelligence by others, and this is what Dany can offer.
@@alanpennie8013 Apparently he does find "where whores go"(in the words of Martin)in winds of winter. So maybe he will encounter Tysha. That confrontation could change the fate of the world.
I will say that I LIKE the show tyrion a LOT. I think his character is the ONLY one in the show that was changed drastically for the BETTER. And better not morally but i mean more interesting! As well as having peter dinklidge as the actor coming into play , but in general the show version of tyrion turned out being a VERY relatable and well rounded character to watch.
Tyrion in the show got really boring after he escaped from KL, he lost all his wit as well as Varys. Abandoning the book plotlines definitely hurt his character (and many more character's)
Gargoyles are a functional thing that keeps water off the masonry of Gothic architecture. Grotesques are the "protectors" of buildings
Aah! I just saw this regarding the Viscerion connection and have often wondered myself as Viscerion is white... the other two dragons green and black respectively and Tyrion's eyes are often referred to as being one green and one black.... also... just a thought but Tyrion and Daeny share something in common in that their mother's both died birthing them.... as dis 'Jon Snow' s' if you wanted to go that far! Steve Howard... Brighton Uk
Good idea for a video: EVERY cyvasse game played in ASOIAF, who wins and loses each one, what they talk about and the symbolism, and whether or not someone falls onto the board or scatters the pieces when they don't like how the game is going. It seems like at least 60-70% of games wind up with cyvasse pieces all over the ground. And yet somehow you never see Tyrion notice that a king is chipped or that a dragon has no head. (In my world, on Earth, ivory and marble do break if you don't treat them well. But somehow in Essos you can just fling them around, and they don't even fall off the side of the BOAT?!? How does physics work in this world?!? Though I need to analyze why this bothers me so much ... I can suspend my disbelief for dragons or witches, but you mean to tell me people throw valuable toys around and they NEVER get cracked or chipped? POPPYCOCK!!!)
Maybe Jaime also lied so he wouldn't loose the only person who cares about him? Tysha was proof that Tyrion could count on other people besides him. They already had a house, it was only a matter of time before he moved out, had kids, and started a whole new family without him. Tyrion would get to move on and poor Jaime, who tries so hard to be perfect, would be all alone with nothing.
The dream team assembles.
The music stays creeping me out.
I think Tyrion and the Shaveapate would get along really well. If Tyrion decides to keep him on I mean.
I love how Tyrion mirrors tywin so much, considering how much they hate each other. If he ends up as hand to Daenerys it will be another good Avenue for him to become his father
is there still a rickon theory coming or am i just dumb and cant find it? love the series since i’ve only just caught up on the books
Where do you guys get the thumbnails for these?
I doubt Dany will ever see Westeros again.