DK versus Yoshi feels like one of those matchups you see on the back of the box, a fake matchup that's only there for the promo. Can't believe I'm seeing it in tournaments.
You see it a lot in casual games, you know, the ones played by people that don't have any kind of involvement with the competitive scene. The people that play with items and such surely see this a whole lot
Okay real talk, as an old head melee fan I adore the positive take you have on your character. Growing up I remember people would always talk their character down so wins seemed more impressive and loses seemed more reasonable. I first noticed with aMSa and now also you, but when people talk about your character you actually advocate for them. Maybe also has to do with the fact that ur a big fan of big monkē but it still makes me happy to hear you talk your mans up :^)
id want to see akir experiment with that, apparently they have incredible secondaries, dk once being one, while june staying with solo dk kimda as a control
This is the most optimistic matchup chart I have ever seen in my life by far but gotta have faith in your character if you don’t plan on switching. Good luck on your future runs man always love watching you no matter what character you’re playing just a dope player.
If all this turns out correct then DK is firmly a top 10 character in the game. Hbox sounded really optimistic about DK but he still put DK at 12th in his most recent tier list, below Samus and Pikachu
Yeah if dk genuinely doesn’t lose a matchup worse than 6-4 then I think he’s pretty clearly in yoshi/ics/pika territory. Still kinda skeptical about spacies but June is right in that no matter how bad the matchup actually is nerves + execution mean you won’t lose to them forever
The thing I found the strangest as DK became more common in tournament was commentators talking about how slow Giant Punch was. Which is true if your comparing it to like your average aerial or something, but compare it to most smashes and it's close or slightly slower with the obvious upside of being huge and murdering characters harder than your average smash attack. Obviously having a cargo upthrow confirm on a lot of characters is the best part about it, but was mainly reffering to neutral use. I feel like if DK had the PAL change of retaining the punch when hit during upB that would actually be pretty huge for him.
Hell even if it is considered "slow" it's mostly used for priority over against other moves and it's for wakeup punishes when you trying to predict where opponents will roll. Plus it's not Bowser forward smash slow 😂 I don't know why they would say that.
@@Melanatedhatervibez Exactly, plus they would say it then the DK would hit with a Giant Punch in neutral read (with how easy it is to lose it, I get letting it rip) or a roll get up or similar punish like you were saying. I mean it was only like two different commentators total in pools I heard say it, but I still found it odd, almost like they were just associating it with a Falcon/Warlock Punch or something since this was still before a DK had placed really well.
Amazing video as always June, but as a Samus player i'm gonna have to step in for my two cents. Missles and Bombs can absolutely control space cornering DKs big body into wherever i want him; also in no sane world should a DK be able to recover against Samus with all of her tools. Bombs and homing missles can really ruin his day and ledge invincible backwards butt nair is just an absolute DK killer. The DK punish is brutal obviously but she can float out of most of it, so i'm gonna have to contend that the matchup is even AT BEST. Thank you for everything you do o7
I agree with the vibes and the analysis. But the *numbers* are just off. Make the losing MUs 3-7 and hard winning mu 7.5-2.5 and basically just spread out the list more and then it will be a reasonable MU chart! 3-7 is a fine MU. Definitely winnable. especially in a game like melee and especially when its 3-7 but the opponent has the more difficult character to play as, and is almost guaranteed to not have the same level of MU knowledge. Not everything has to be 6-4 or less. Like, theres no way falco DK is like close to 50/50 if both players have equal MU knowledge and skill. The falco is going to win significantly more games. Probably like 7-3. Falco punish on DK is legit comparable to what dk gets, and he wins neutral so much more easily. Idk i just feel like everyone doesn't use the MU numbers correctly idk. Anyway good video! Keep going!
One other thing that kinda puts the nail in the coffin for the Samus vs. DK matchup is just how safely DK can shield. Samus has to risk so much to get a grab and gets nothing guaranteed of off it (from my limited experience admittedly). She has to resort to shield pokes and really hard outplays like that which makes the matchup incredibly miserable imo 😅
alright, so I just played a match against wireframe. now, bear in mind, I am not a professional player. in fact, I accidentally forgot to turn off items, but neither of us really grabbed any of 'em, which is surprising since I was playing against a 9 bot, again, not a pro, so take this with a grain of salt. I didnt die once.
Great vid, liked and subscribed, look forward to more of your stuff as well as you upsetting more tournaments, keep up the excellent work on both counts!
If you have followed melee for a long time everyone knows DK's true potential Especially & Especially If you ever saw Bum play DK wayy back in the day. Like it's obvious. Great video 👍🎉 came here from Event hubs after they posted your video
I remember watching Bing vs Daniel at gridiron gateway with Carroll and thinking "I don't know if this matchup has been played at this level on both sides before*
I've been playing smash since 2000 and have been a big believer in DK's potential since 2002. It does my heart good to see people finally catching on to good DK actually is! 🦍🙏🏿🔥💯
I wanna add more details to the Yoshi/DK MU. So how i keep on winning against a DK, is due to how Yoshi have inherent super-abilities over DK. Egglay force you into the air and force me decent start%, and it also remove you from any camping position you want to have. Eggs can and will diminish your shield. Also, with the coming of run-egging which i (i shit you not) pretty much invented, you cannot really deal with yoshi because we move in with the egg or leave as we leave behind an egg. aMSa is decent at doing it for long-range combo-finishers, but i actually use it in neutral as well. For example, if i run-egg in and land infront of you, there's a large chance i use it as grab-bait. The egg fall onto your head and release me as you grab me. If you don't, i still get to attack and make inputs due to how i threw the egg as i jumped. It's honestly pretty damn evil against DK's due to their size. And while a grab-release hurt Yoshi, the egg hitting you damage DK more than me. Thus, it's worth it. Beside other egg-related plays. I think it's a loosing matchup if Yoshi know what he is doing, but it demands some great plays to send it home. And run-egging is insanely hard to do for even great players, it's why i only know of 4 people on earth that can do it. Me, my buddy, one insane young yoshi main in europe, and aMSa.
June I gave up on playing melee after realizing that in 21 years of playing smash I got into the habit of never fast falling my aerials so basically I’m really bad and learning to fast fall was miserable. Anyway I like it when u monkey
That's a very decent matchup spread for a mid tier when you lay it all out like that. Although (and obviously you know more) Falco looks rough to me. Mango is Mango but how he smothers DK makes it look bad.
Well made list! IMO, You could probably put Kirby in 6:4 good or annoying depending on certain factors, his edge guarding is pretty nasty against DK and with decent dair spikes off of him, it can be possible to do the work but damn if getting hit from this giant gorilla doesn't hurt like hell lol. Hope you're doing well dude
Ive always said sheik was DK worst match up but everyone said falco or falcon was the worst feel good to have somebody agreeing with me on this and it noneother than junebug !
Playing the shiek matchup, like yoshi have to, might be a part of the solution of dk vs shiek. But not all of it if the shiek know what he is doing. You want to have space but at the same time, trick them and maybe navigate in a way that let you fight them more. Personally, I think that raw-giga punch might help the matchup due to the absurd range and the ability to spam it safely off of platforms if the shiek is on a platform as well. It's gimmicky, but the range is there. SURE, it's not charged. But anything that's busted and relatively safe will yield you a benefit when the M.U is doomed more or less. Fall-off gigapunch, slight driftback into pre-emptively using it, among other situations. People won't expect it and can't counter it even if they want to as well. Look into it, i've only seen 1 decent good DK use it so far and it was actually great on it's own despite his other flaws as a player.
How do you feel about the link match up after playing against aklo's link? The match up certainly didn't look super DK favoured, aklo seemed to be pretty good at getting out of up air combos, so the punish game looked alot more even.
Mewtwo is severely underrated here. The techchase is absolutely brain dead easy and it’s easier for M2 to kill off grab than it is for Sheik. I think not only does M2 win, it’s the third worst matchup
"THE OFFICIAL MELEE DONKEY KONG MATCHUP CHART!" *secs into the vid* "This Chart is just mainly based on my and other top Dk's experiences, also I guess there is some recency bias.(or sth. in this direction)" -Junebug But dont worry Junebug im recency biased as well:)
as a G&W player, i feel like DK is pretty decently favored, but not absurdly. g&w actually has good disjoints for dealing with dk and can go toe-to-toe with DK. not as bad of a matchup as bowser/roy but G&W can still persevere with nair+fair to space him out. that being said... g&w's absolutely terrible defensive options with the lack of a proper shield, inability to L-cancel most of his moves, and having a perfect weight for combos does make it even more hellish
I had stopped watching melee for a bit but all you DKs pulled me back in with these shenanigans! Thanks for breathing new life into melee! DK def loses to fox/falco at least 6/4 tho 😭
I mean, Franz exists. Also, Mango did go Doc against Junebug on FD, but Mango's Doc was rusty so that doesn't really count. But Mango did announce that he thought that if his Doc was on-point he could win. So...we might see that matchup again, with a slightly more practiced Mango.
that's it, I'm maining DK.
LETS GOOOOO
IGP??!?!??
would love to see you make a video about it
@@IGP What color 👀
DK versus Yoshi feels like one of those matchups you see on the back of the box, a fake matchup that's only there for the promo. Can't believe I'm seeing it in tournaments.
Perfect way to describe this lol
Lmao.
Gargantuans, but better
what a time to be a melee player
You see it a lot in casual games, you know, the ones played by people that don't have any kind of involvement with the competitive scene. The people that play with items and such surely see this a whole lot
Giant punchin my shit and leading the bunch rn
im over here giant punching my shit got charges on my shit rn
@@arJunebugSmashI’m rooting for ya one handed
who up firing they coconut gun rn
When he can fire in spurts 👀
@@arJunebugSmashI’m over here chargin’ my shit, got 9 winds on my shit rn
hey guys its me junebug
money match me
I wanted to make a matchup tier list based on my experiences with Donkey Kong in Super Smash Brothers Melee
hey guys we have to talk about this turndownforwalter guy
Hi junebug
@@JustButtonthis is gonna be subjective and based on how me and other donkey kongs have played super smash bros melee
Okay real talk, as an old head melee fan I adore the positive take you have on your character. Growing up I remember people would always talk their character down so wins seemed more impressive and loses seemed more reasonable. I first noticed with aMSa and now also you, but when people talk about your character you actually advocate for them. Maybe also has to do with the fact that ur a big fan of big monkē but it still makes me happy to hear you talk your mans up :^)
facts
honestly part of why i like cody and zain, they both think their character is #1 and they try their hardest to prove it
"nerves are so intrinsic to the human experience" - Monkey Kong
become monke and lose the human tendency to get nervous
MONKEY KONG
@@protocetid 🧠
oh my gosh its junebug
Thank god he said it was him, Junebug. Otherwise how could I have known?
You could always ask the comments section if you're unsure.
As Reverend once said, "there are two fundamental truths in life. Melee donkey kong jigglypuff is a 50/50, and..."
donkey kong goes for the throat
Having a puff secondary to deal with sheik and ic’s would actually fit dk really well
Same jump squat and similar game plans too.
id want to see akir experiment with that, apparently they have incredible secondaries, dk once being one, while june staying with solo dk kimda as a control
This is the most optimistic matchup chart I have ever seen in my life by far but gotta have faith in your character if you don’t plan on switching. Good luck on your future runs man always love watching you no matter what character you’re playing just a dope player.
Finally. The Kongmunist Bananifesto.
Best tier list video. Very informative and the editing is amazing. Ty for this video!
Glad you enjoyed!
"you can stuff the peach"
-Junebug
bro log off the internet
You forgot an essential factor in your match up analysis.
DK's taunt. Arguably the best in the game.
*Kirby taunt has entered the chat...*
But yeah, Dk's taunt is place 1 together with kirby's, atleast for me.
Falco's is the best.. DK's is no good. Kirby's is great
ness is at least top 3
Mario and YL
@@snared_ Falco is basic, not rly that good
Hey Junebug it’s me guys
This used to be a joke in the fgc. Spooky always opens with "Hey guys, it's spooky" and the chat would flood with "Hey spooky, it's guys"
But what if it wasn’t you, junebug
I was waiting for this.
Thank you its me Junebug for making Melee interesting again :)
If all this turns out correct then DK is firmly a top 10 character in the game. Hbox sounded really optimistic about DK but he still put DK at 12th in his most recent tier list, below Samus and Pikachu
Yeah if dk genuinely doesn’t lose a matchup worse than 6-4 then I think he’s pretty clearly in yoshi/ics/pika territory. Still kinda skeptical about spacies but June is right in that no matter how bad the matchup actually is nerves + execution mean you won’t lose to them forever
i love how passionate you are about DK, makes me want to improve too. Thanks Junebug
Waiting for the Junebug of Game&Watches
13:03 CONFIRMED! Classic spacey mix-ups exist!
The thing I found the strangest as DK became more common in tournament was commentators talking about how slow Giant Punch was. Which is true if your comparing it to like your average aerial or something, but compare it to most smashes and it's close or slightly slower with the obvious upside of being huge and murdering characters harder than your average smash attack. Obviously having a cargo upthrow confirm on a lot of characters is the best part about it, but was mainly reffering to neutral use. I feel like if DK had the PAL change of retaining the punch when hit during upB that would actually be pretty huge for him.
Hell even if it is considered "slow" it's mostly used for priority over against other moves and it's for wakeup punishes when you trying to predict where opponents will roll.
Plus it's not Bowser forward smash slow 😂 I don't know why they would say that.
@@Melanatedhatervibez Exactly, plus they would say it then the DK would hit with a Giant Punch in neutral read (with how easy it is to lose it, I get letting it rip) or a roll get up or similar punish like you were saying.
I mean it was only like two different commentators total in pools I heard say it, but I still found it odd, almost like they were just associating it with a Falcon/Warlock Punch or something since this was still before a DK had placed really well.
Amazing video as always June, but as a Samus player i'm gonna have to step in for my two cents. Missles and Bombs can absolutely control space cornering DKs big body into wherever i want him; also in no sane world should a DK be able to recover against Samus with all of her tools. Bombs and homing missles can really ruin his day and ledge invincible backwards butt nair is just an absolute DK killer. The DK punish is brutal obviously but she can float out of most of it, so i'm gonna have to contend that the matchup is even AT BEST. Thank you for everything you do o7
I agree with the vibes and the analysis. But the *numbers* are just off.
Make the losing MUs 3-7 and hard winning mu 7.5-2.5 and basically just spread out the list more and then it will be a reasonable MU chart!
3-7 is a fine MU. Definitely winnable. especially in a game like melee and especially when its 3-7 but the opponent has the more difficult character to play as, and is almost guaranteed to not have the same level of MU knowledge.
Not everything has to be 6-4 or less. Like, theres no way falco DK is like close to 50/50 if both players have equal MU knowledge and skill. The falco is going to win significantly more games. Probably like 7-3. Falco punish on DK is legit comparable to what dk gets, and he wins neutral so much more easily.
Idk i just feel like everyone doesn't use the MU numbers correctly idk. Anyway good video! Keep going!
June ain't buggin'. This is some solid stuff.
this bug has guts
mewtwo vs dk is an incredible matchup to play
One other thing that kinda puts the nail in the coffin for the Samus vs. DK matchup is just how safely DK can shield. Samus has to risk so much to get a grab and gets nothing guaranteed of off it (from my limited experience admittedly). She has to resort to shield pokes and really hard outplays like that which makes the matchup incredibly miserable imo 😅
How does DK fair against male Wireframe? 🤔
By holding forward in the air and pressing z or a, or by pressing c stick forward in the air
By jumping and inputting a forward aerial
alright, so I just played a match against wireframe. now, bear in mind, I am not a professional player. in fact, I accidentally forgot to turn off items, but neither of us really grabbed any of 'em, which is surprising since I was playing against a 9 bot, again, not a pro, so take this with a grain of salt.
I didnt die once.
EZPZ, anyone can see right through him
taunt solos
Loved this. glad youre making content. excited for more
This was an excellent video. You have a real knack for explanation
I'm gonna need a MewtwoMan vs Junebug money match because I want to see that matchup at a high level.
Great vid, liked and subscribed, look forward to more of your stuff as well as you upsetting more tournaments, keep up the excellent work on both counts!
If you have followed melee for a long time everyone knows DK's true potential
Especially
&
Especially
If you ever saw Bum play DK wayy back in the day. Like it's obvious.
Great video 👍🎉 came here from Event hubs after they posted your video
High quality vid. Nice job man
I remember watching Bing vs Daniel at gridiron gateway with Carroll and thinking "I don't know if this matchup has been played at this level on both sides before*
This is something I’ve always been curious of. Loving the runs June!
You're awesome bro, mad respect for you
yo you got a great voice for narration. very smooth. i want to fall asleep to it but i also want to listen to what you have to say LMAO
Great job with this and out there!
As a ganon player, I always felt DK beat ganon, now it's official
love the vid junebug
I've said the same thing about the Puff matchup! I say it's even and get lots of puzzled looks
holy shit it's you junebug
I've been playing smash since 2000 and have been a big believer in DK's potential since 2002. It does my heart good to see people finally catching on to good DK actually is! 🦍🙏🏿🔥💯
Junebug has created some awesome melee hype
30:24 This. This is what all of us say internally when losing a losing matchup 😂
God I loved the DK vs Ganon crew battle. It was so hype
I wanna add more details to the Yoshi/DK MU. So how i keep on winning against a DK, is due to how Yoshi have inherent super-abilities over DK. Egglay force you into the air and force me decent start%, and it also remove you from any camping position you want to have. Eggs can and will diminish your shield. Also, with the coming of run-egging which i (i shit you not) pretty much invented, you cannot really deal with yoshi because we move in with the egg or leave as we leave behind an egg. aMSa is decent at doing it for long-range combo-finishers, but i actually use it in neutral as well. For example, if i run-egg in and land infront of you, there's a large chance i use it as grab-bait. The egg fall onto your head and release me as you grab me. If you don't, i still get to attack and make inputs due to how i threw the egg as i jumped. It's honestly pretty damn evil against DK's due to their size. And while a grab-release hurt Yoshi, the egg hitting you damage DK more than me. Thus, it's worth it. Beside other egg-related plays. I think it's a loosing matchup if Yoshi know what he is doing, but it demands some great plays to send it home. And run-egging is insanely hard to do for even great players, it's why i only know of 4 people on earth that can do it. Me, my buddy, one insane young yoshi main in europe, and aMSa.
CG
COCONUT GUN
Give Melee DK his Coconut Gun
Love u junebug u gave me advice at smashcon for how to fight spacies since it was my first dk bracket then got to see you pop off in bracket
This is incredible
"mmh monke" - Grand Master Oogway
Very well thought out video 😊 I'm sure the DK character discord agrees with you 100%....
What do you think about DK's matchups in PAL?
In that version, DK doesn't lose the charge of his punch.
Junebug's Donkey Kong sold me fent
found Leffen’s account
THE LEADER OF THE BUNCH HAS SPOKEN!! INSPIRING A NEW WAVE OF MONKE
June I gave up on playing melee after realizing that in 21 years of playing smash I got into the habit of never fast falling my aerials so basically I’m really bad and learning to fast fall was miserable.
Anyway I like it when u monkey
Also my brain is smooth
Hey junebug its me guy
That's a very decent matchup spread for a mid tier when you lay it all out like that. Although (and obviously you know more) Falco looks rough to me. Mango is Mango but how he smothers DK makes it look bad.
Thats a very very good matchup spread
Well made list!
IMO, You could probably put Kirby in 6:4 good or annoying depending on certain factors, his edge guarding is pretty nasty against DK and with decent dair spikes off of him, it can be possible to do the work but damn if getting hit from this giant gorilla doesn't hurt like hell lol. Hope you're doing well dude
Ive always said sheik was DK worst match up but everyone said falco or falcon was the worst feel good to have somebody agreeing with me on this and it noneother than junebug !
The junebug top 10 is coming
Playing the shiek matchup, like yoshi have to, might be a part of the solution of dk vs shiek. But not all of it if the shiek know what he is doing. You want to have space but at the same time, trick them and maybe navigate in a way that let you fight them more. Personally, I think that raw-giga punch might help the matchup due to the absurd range and the ability to spam it safely off of platforms if the shiek is on a platform as well. It's gimmicky, but the range is there. SURE, it's not charged. But anything that's busted and relatively safe will yield you a benefit when the M.U is doomed more or less. Fall-off gigapunch, slight driftback into pre-emptively using it, among other situations. People won't expect it and can't counter it even if they want to as well. Look into it, i've only seen 1 decent good DK use it so far and it was actually great on it's own despite his other flaws as a player.
Game and Watch on the come up trust
Great video
good vid, pocket kong acquired
Hey Junebuds it’s me Junebug!
Glad to see that as a Roy main, there's a reason DK is kicking my ass lol. CC is real
Epic!!
How's the DK vs DK matchup tho? Does DK have a slight advantage, or is DK better?
How do you feel about the link match up after playing against aklo's link? The match up certainly didn't look super DK favoured, aklo seemed to be pretty good at getting out of up air combos, so the punish game looked alot more even.
i think it's still DKs favor! but it's an annoying one for sure
Reject modernity. Return to monke
Holy shit it took me like 4 listens to understand you said out schmooves and not ouch moves
Mewtwo is severely underrated here. The techchase is absolutely brain dead easy and it’s easier for M2 to kill off grab than it is for Sheik. I think not only does M2 win, it’s the third worst matchup
13:02 I'm trapped in a time loop
"THE OFFICIAL MELEE DONKEY KONG MATCHUP CHART!"
*secs into the vid*
"This Chart is just mainly based on my and other top Dk's experiences, also I guess there is some recency bias.(or sth. in this direction)"
-Junebug
But dont worry Junebug im recency biased as well:)
13:05 holy deja vu
fr i thought i was going crazy lmao
Very supprised that fox and falco are the same tier, I thought falco was worse for DK even with laser counterplay being better now
crazy that we are in a timeline where this is useful in a competitive setting
as a G&W player, i feel like DK is pretty decently favored, but not absurdly. g&w actually has good disjoints for dealing with dk and can go toe-to-toe with DK. not as bad of a matchup as bowser/roy but G&W can still persevere with nair+fair to space him out. that being said... g&w's absolutely terrible defensive options with the lack of a proper shield, inability to L-cancel most of his moves, and having a perfect weight for combos does make it even more hellish
It would truly be a beautiful thing if your DK ever ran into a Bowser.
I’m not sure if you mentioned Sheik’s needles
Never played melee but lord knows I’m invested
One morning I will wake, only to find that it is no longer Junebug.
Damn DK is getting me back into melee 😊
I had stopped watching melee for a bit but all you DKs pulled me back in with these shenanigans! Thanks for breathing new life into melee! DK def loses to fox/falco at least 6/4 tho 😭
The year is 20DK
30:53 omg the dk plush 🥰
Guys it's me, Junebug
Junebug the only other high level doc that you could play... Is you
I mean, Franz exists.
Also, Mango did go Doc against Junebug on FD, but Mango's Doc was rusty so that doesn't really count. But Mango did announce that he thought that if his Doc was on-point he could win. So...we might see that matchup again, with a slightly more practiced Mango.
@@KaitlynBurnellMath franz is on a break fo focus on school. Though I would love to see mang0 lock in doc lee for a whole tournaments
Well, now that DK is upgradable and has a big F'N gun, i think some of these matchups are outdated
29:45 Damn, I never knew DK had a major losing matchup to both Roy and Bowser. 35:65 is rough. Worse than the hard matchups.
It's the other way around. DK owns Roy in Melee lol
@@lukejones7164you didn’t get his comment
Surprised you didn't bring up your games vs Aklo on the Link matchup
this was recorded a while ago
Donkey Kong wins every match-up
“We need more high level Mario bros” I’m trying 😭
as a g&w main i can confirm that this is an accurate matchup chart