The Panda controller’s story is so sad. It was the only one that just seemed like a good video game controller rather than an “optimal melee device”. I hope one day there can be something like it in the future.
@@HarrisonWeber21 Smash community is actually incredibly stupid nearly every time. There are still many players that are banned from competing/existing in the community that no one wants to speak up about literally due to how badly the smash community is correlated to cancel culture. A bunch of sheep and impressionable teenagers that want to follow along with everyone else by virtue signaling on twitter
I want this controller so bad. Not just for melee and smash, but fighting games and all gamepad controllers for PC, gamecube, Switch (and other consoles with adapters).
For me it's more the fact that it's an ideal ass controller casually too. Like it could be used to play anying and everything, probably would have had pressable sticks. It would have just been perfect
One thing a lot of videos miss about the Jmook phob breakdown is that Jmook had an older 1.X.X phob. Newer 2.X.X phobs dont have that same issue. In detail: The 1.X.X models of phobs required more power and had to use the rumble motors 5V power line and on some wiis that power line can stop working temporarily which on an OEM or 2.X.X phob only stops the rumble from working while on an 1.X.X stops the entire controller from working.
That's also why the gamecube adapter for WiiU/Switch has two USB inputs. One of them (they grey one) is basically dedicated to supplying extra power for the rumble motor.
For what its worth, enigineers from the Panda controller team are working on the Glyph controller that is a really cool option for those that want a box controller in basically any configuration.
The panda controller was actually doomed from the beginning. 2 days after the kickstarter launched, Nintendo told them to shut it down. Alan said they would have to get actual licensing from Nintendo and planned on doing it and restarting the Kickstarter but still same deal. I think we shot ourselves in the foot by going after Alan and panda.
The fact that they didn't have a license wouldn't have been a problem. There are no laws that require a manufacturer of a controller to get a license it just makes developing and selling it far easier. What would have been a problem is the fact that Nintendo has a patent on the gamecube controller which doesn't expire until August 4th of this year.
@@SirNarax right but they were trying to stay in good favor with Nintendo. Alan talked about it on a podcast a couple of months ago, that podcast was pretty interesting.
@@nahometesfay1112 Yeah and supposedly that was true but there was far more happening than they told us. Go watch "Dr Alan Reveals EVERYTHING That Happened w/ Panda! | Lights Out Episode 36" and around 48:05 Dr. Alan talks about it.
@@squoosh8285What I meant is this isn't a nerf implemented by the B0XX. The video talks about coordinate fuzzing as if it was a feature of the B0XX that was implemented by the company itself. Coordinate fuzzing is in fact a proposal from a third party and Hax$ is decidedly against it. Coordinates fuzzing clearly nerfs the B0XX. Sorry for the ambiguous wording.
If like to add something in defense of Alan of Panda. He did several interviews and released a statement that gave his side of the story. He said that he knew SWT was struggling to get a license so he was advising that if they didn’t want to potentially get shut down by Nintendo, getting Nintendo approved would be the safest path. No one knew what Nintendo would do and how strict they would be with their new licenses so it was smart to tell TOs about the danger. Also he left the company to separate the hate being targeted towards him form the company as not only that would potentially allow for its survival, but also because he and several of the employees, including the players, got doxxed. I recommend reading his statement and listening to his interview yourself but I really disagree the idea that he was to blame for SWT getting shut down. A random esports guy is not ordering around goddamn Nintendo.
I mean the move to step away was definitely the right idea probably for the right reasons and he wouldn't have been able to influence Nintendo much but I feel like he and you both are seriously underselling the impact he had on TOs, especially when Nintendo's decisions during that time were under such strong scrutiny by the community and they very possibly might have reverted their decision to shut down SWT
great video but I want to clear something up for the ppl. 10:55 A Macro is a SEQUENCE of inputs being emulated in a button press, not 2 buttons being same time. Like you press a button and Fox doubleshines. Thats a macro. Button remaps like Z jump shouldn't be confused in any way with Macros because they are completely different things. Most smashers get these things confused alot because they don't familiarize with other fighting game communities that have a more clear line of definition, so I'm just here to clear up that misinterpretation.
Smash players are terrible at hardmodding controllers. Every time I see soldering jobs for $300+ controllers, there's always way too much solder on one point, way too little, cracked soldering, board and point burning and flux left on the board. This is even a problem for really big modders. I guess its about right for a community that's horribly scared of new controllers to not know how to properly mod them.
I'm not a melee player, i semi-regularly play ultimate and used to attend tournaments when i was younger. The story of Panda's controller, and the group in general is just a tragedy to me. That concept, a controller that was pre-built, officially backed, and designed with more "dedicated" players in mind, was an incredible one. It's really a shame it never came to fruition.
was daunted by the length of the vid but this is super informative and entertaining. me and my friends casually enjoyed competitive melee in HS. i moved to 2d fighters so was curious how their hitbox-esque controllers fared to how the FGC received the hitbox and its clones. great vid
THIS. at the end of the day, while having a modified controller might be nice and let you do some very particular extra stuff, it is not the limiting factor for 99% of players. buy an official controller from nintendo (which you can still do) and git gud. the only real exception to this is those who need the ergonomics of something like a box or a prism due to hand issues, which is the very reason hax set out to make the B0XX in the first place.
I think many people (like myself) want a Phob not because it's going to make you a better player all of a sudden. It's because GameCube controllers are getting increasingly difficult to come across and the whole controller lottery thing. Having a a PODE free, consistent and durable controller is the main appeal for me. Unlike Zain or other pros I can't afford to regularly buy new ones when the previous one start deteriorating, it also seems very wasteful.
I still really want the panda controller. I hope someone buys the patents or someone steps up and makes something similar, the demand is obviously there and the fact that they were gonna add even more features like a diamond button layout....in a perfect world we'd have it in our hands by now....
The GC Ultimate seems very promising. Having doubts about backing it cause I personally don't trust Kickstarter. But if it's ever available for purchase and reviews come back favorably I'm getting one.
That would be AMAZING! We need more open source stuff! Just please make sure that the files for the shell AND pcb are also open source and freely available!
this is a great video, it's got that great high-quality smash editing style, and it's a full hour!!! I love long videos like this because you really get into a good groove with them after the 40 minute mark
Low key, if the smashstick actually came out like 7-8 years ago. It probably would have been exploded in popularity and competing with phobs. People really like stick controllers while boxx are always going to be niche. Heck the smashstick had stuff that phobs had years before phob became a thing.
low key, if the smash stick actually came out, I'd finally be happy my $500 actually got me something. This is the best any of us backers can really hope for anymore :P
Melee's controller situation has gotten a good deal of criticism for being "pay to win" but I'll be honest, I find the further and further advancement of controllers super fascinating to witness. At a local I went to recently, I chatted with a local controller modder and the level of technical know-how some of these people have is absolutely astounding. The guy had installed a screen into the side of his Wii so he could check the controller input polling or control stick angles (I'll be honest, I'm not 100% sure what it was for, it's been a minute since I saw it and I was talking with him about a lot of stuff beyond that). And witnessing the technical arms race of gamecube controller and box controllers has been kind of fun to watch once you just let go of all the accusations coming from people about "cheater controllers." It is genuinely a shame that the range of $60-ish controllers for people to start out on is quite literally non-existant, anyone looking to buy a controller these days is pretty much looking for 10 year old controllers from back when smash 4 was reproducing the controller, or something highly customized to the point that they're essentially designer 3rd-party controllers. I don't know if pay-to-win is 100% the correct term to use, it's not like professional athletes are playing with cheap equipment like tennis rackets, bats, balls, bowling balls, shoes, etc, it's not an entirely inaccurate statement to make if a new player is just trying to play some games on slippi and is looking to move away from using some x-input controller they've been gaming on pc with.
I've been using a xbox pro controller (x-input) into slippi for years. Also the controller input screen is a gimmick you can use to see your opponent's inputs during the game. It allows you to know the exact angle of a fox/falco Up-B for example, among other ways you can glance at their inputs to take advantage of a situation.
I started playing melee with an X box one controller and Z jumping lol I didn't even know about any Z jumping discourse, I just liked that button layout from Ultimate
It really is pay to win tho. Only at top level tho because your less likely to miss inputs. I can’t wait for the day when we can play games with just our mind it will be amazing and then it will be really boring/ and or new top players will come in and old top players will leave dude to the fact that their are players who have bigger brains but not good on the sticks and games in general unless it’s an rpg prioritized who better on sticks over big brain moves
Nintendo had no hand in developing the Panda controller. In fact, I strongly suspect that they contributed to shutting it down, and I have heard other rumors to that effect.
I think one of the reasons boxx style controllers are not more common is because basically all of them become instantly sold out. It's actually really hard to get them. In fact even right now your options is usually wait months for a controllers. Though in the last two years there was like 3 good options but now there are like 8 good options so the scariccity of controllers are slightly less of a issue. It's still super expensive and hard to get.
They're not more common because they sold out??? That's a weird way to put it, you might put more emphasis on the lack of production rather than the extremely successful sales rate
47:30 the reason why Alan talked to tos about smash world tour getting shut down by Nintendo, was because swt was trying to get a license from Nintendo in a timeframe of a few months and had sponsorships lined up for it, which took panda years he knew that would never work so in context Alan was just given tos a heads up, not really that shady in my eyes
Basically all major TO's have huge egos and Alan managed to anger some of them, so when SWT could not get a license and likely causing them to lose sponserships with this he ambugies legality of it gimer decided to spend his decade+ of good will and political capital to ruin panda cup, i guess as a act of revenge. Just the Idea that panda global has some or any control of a multi billion dollar company is just absurdity and the hate hinged on this being the case. So now there are no leagues for smash, any hope of a governing body formed ruined, and one of the biggest organizations contributing and subsizing smash, that included a major news and content channels for smash, is defacto dead. No one wins yay!
@@AL-lh2ht nah, you’re pretty wrong on this take. most major TOs don’t have “huge egos,” they’re just trying their hardest to make the best events they can, which is both incredibly difficult and stressful to pull off. they’re fallible humans, and when their literal life’s work is threatened by some guy who deceitfully appears to be pulling some strings somewhere they got justifiably pretty scared. and a panda cup/nintendo affiliated league would have not been good for melee. grassroots ftw. it’s better this way. granted it’s a shame that panda as a whole had to die. but they went the way of icarus. too close to the sun.
@@dropandy1453this is probably the most accurate representation from the discourse I've read online, i think a lot of the melee community is super weird for trying to build a villain out of either alan/panda or the TOs, like it was ultimately poor communication and consistency on panda's side with both Nintendo and the community at large, but even then it's not like they weren't coming from a place of well-meaning. Just seems like missteps and a couple assumptions about the public perception of the events led to pandas downfall as a company.
@@NATE-bz7mx yeah that’s cause i know a few of those TO boogeymen that people like to claim have “huge egos” without ever having talked to them once. people seem to like having a “side” or “good and bad guys” cause it makes things simple to think about.
My take: Gamecube controllers are just awful; they are terrible as far as ergonomics goes, and makes it impossible to do certain things consistently. The second we are no longer talking about developing SKILL to pull something off, but simply nerfing clearly superior input methods to match the lack of consistency of a controller that is garbage, we should just admit that these controllers need to go and we should allow these new types of controllers without the majority of these nerfs. Hell, if you want to talk about a barrier to entry, you will spend LESS on one of these box style controllers than you would some modded controllers... and the controllers WILL wear out, and fast.
You say that yet GC controllers are still the standard for almost every smash game since Melee with not that much of a fight. Clearly must've done something right, and this is coming from someone who's fine with anything that's not a standalone Wii Remote.
@@LambdaBelmont , simply because something is accepted, says nothing about it being "right" or desirable or optimal. That would be an appeal to popularity or an appeal to tradition, or some other informal logical fallacy depending on how it is worded. I get it... I use a fight stick because I enjoy the feel of it, but the difference is with proper technique I can avoid injury. The fact is it is both inferior ergonomically, less consistent, doesn't last as long, and is more expensive than the newer types of controllers. I have nostalgia too since I played the hell out of this game casually when it first came out. Nostalgia is the only benefit I see, so I think we should be honest.
ngl i simply disagree, I've played melee on gcc, Xbox controllers, briefly on b0xx, ps4 controllers, switch pro controllers, and of all of them the face button placement for the gcc works best for my hands personally. I think they're poorly made on a production and material quality level, and need to be held under more scrutiny when possible, but a lot of the raw design aspects i really like. I like the stick heights and placements, I like the L and R triggers vertical feeling over the hinge design of most others, I like the octagon gates around the stick as opposed to circular gates like the Xbox or ps4, there's just a lot i really like about it. I agree with the barrier of entry to some degree, but I think it's so dependent on your history with games that like, no answer is a perfect skill curve for everyone. I grew up with a gamecube, not a pc or hitbox, so learning melee competitively was likely a lot easier for someone like me compared to someone even like, a nintendo fan who skipped the gamecube or wii, even more with someone who's already played on a boxx or on pc where keyboard inputs at least acclimate your hands to that board-style. but yeah, gccs are really poorly built, but I do think their design is almost my perfect controller no joke. Just gimme a ZL button, clickable sticks, and I'm sold for eternity lol
@@LambdaBelmontA lot of ult players use a pro controller. The GCC is just the standard because of the legacy melee has had on the scene and because it was practically the only good controller you could get for two smash games (melee and brawl). If I remember correctly, in smash 64 you can use almost everything and people have entered with keyboards. I think the same also applies to PM but I'm not 100% sure.
Don't worry redditors in bronze 2 on slippi ranked will still say the game is impossible to play without shield drop and firefox notches and $400 worth of other controller mods.
One top player saying they don't like notches doesn't make it "still controversial." Every tournament accepts them, and a ton of players use them. They're 100% accepted save for the yearly controller discourse that happens in the community.
I have never played melee competitively but I've been watching for years. I never knew it was this bad until I had to get just a normal Gc controller. The amazon ones are insanely cheap but break after 1 week. I bought a few random controllers and I found the Retro Fighter BattlerGC. I ordered it and had to wait over a year to get it. It randomly showed up one day. I tried to use it only to find the left stick had inverted controls. They ignored me when I asked for a swap or refund. I ended up finding an original orange one for 10$ at a garage sell, plus a silver one from a highschool friend who did play competitive melee. The stick was all messed up but I can fix that eventually
8:05 This video is great, but I'm here to shoutout using the battle music from Yu-Gi-Oh! The Eternal Duelist Soul as bgm here. Thst theme was always a favorite of mine, so I'm glad to see it get some love.
I know this is an hour long video, but as someone who followed through a lot of the smashbox controversy and has done controller research, this is actually quite succinct. I learned quite a few things i didnt know as well. Big props, this is very helpful for anyone looking to seriously navigate through this market right now.
I have a friend who plays on keyboard, like an actual keyboard, a Razer Huntsman Mini. She uses an adapter to play on console. She also took a game off of Hungrybox in the Puff ditto in person.
Considering the quality of this vid your sub count is super low. Liked and subbed, this was a super fun watch and hope you keep making more awesome content!
I have been playing on a white OEM since 2019 and I really want to try a phob. Just can't justify spending that much on a controller when I still have alot to learn about the game in general.
@@DrewDone my reply was seemingly deleted, hopefully that doesn't happen again. I went to CfanCustoms, who is in the san jose area, and by the looks of his twitter his conversions are now $85. not sure about anything in socal tho, sorry.
@@DrewDone if this one works, I went to CfanCustoms, from the SJ area. he's doing $85 conversions now, which is a little more expensive but imo worth it if you're willing and able to make the drive to norcal.
this was a really cool video, and i'm happy you included that last section. honestly, the controller is what is stopping me from trying to learn melee, but it's because i can't even afford the frame 1 :( . the controller mods also seem very expensive, so i probably can't use those either.
Technically if we’re really thinking of where to put up since it’s right by your thumb which u use a lot when controlling your characters movement on a gcc. Plus your pinky is the least used finger along with your brain normally not thinking of using your pinky as often as it is using its other fingers. (Mainly what I’m saying is the important buttons should be regularly accessible ) where the least are further away i.e top to bottom instead of bottom to top as for other inputs in and out is best and make sure to cross your fingers as little as possible when doing more complex inputs. Cuz tbh the Boxx in terms of layout is kinda bias.(aka only favoring fox and falco) not trying to to complain im just saying if we’re making a product for-gamers(in this case melee players it has to be able to be use for any character they play)
50:00 TLDR Panda saw the writing on the wall with the HUNDREDS of suits Nintendo was filing and Jumped ship and warned others. The community stoned the prophet.
Hey I think this is a great video, but I have 1 small criticism, and that is that it seems like you didn't review your script before doing VO. I noticed some factual errors and awkward wording, some of which you noticed and corrected while in the editing process, but I would recommend editing your script a bit earlier on in the process when you're doing this video essay style content. Ideally your script would be able to stand alone as a normal paper essay so I'd just recommend reading through it a few times and maybe even getting a friend to read it, see if there's anything that stands out as incorrect or unnecessary. Clearly a great deal of effort and research was poured into this video and it's a very comprehensive history, I love how it's laid out, I think the one extra pass of polish will take you so far and I'm excited to see more from you!
The melee scene should make an open source clone of melee that has all the nintendo IP removed. This way people can implement not only the controller fixes, but also online play without having to deal with copyright BS. Nintendo may have built the pitch, but they shouldn't own the game.
I’m pretty sure part of the reason the goomwave dropped off because there was multiple people, all approved as goomwave modders who started to have beef with each-other, with different people claiming stuff like they were the real ‘official’ goomwave modder, the best one, or better than specific other modders, and people got confused by or scared off from the situation. Also people got tired of having to buy a well made but expensive controller that required regular maintenance since it would still develop pode. Also, the phob was coming out, so it was pretty much better since the magnet sensors don’t have potentiometers, so pode isn’t an issue. And since it was open source there’s less ‘official modder’ drama, you can get whatever decent modder (who knows what they’re doing) to make you one, and it’s cheaper if you have access to and can use a soldering iron
If those custom motherboards are legal why wouldn’t arduinos become legal again ? If someone gives me the code I can easily mod a GameCube controller with a 5€ worth of material Just make macros not allowed
I feel like the wave dash values should be based on timing instead of randomized. If you want that perfect wave dash length you have to hit the buttons at a frame perfect timing, otherwise you'll get a weakened angle. I feel like this would also allow players to adjust their timing for mixups and gain more analog range in the digital input.
Imagine if the 100 yards runners started designing new custom shoes that let you run easier, with extra speed, special cotton to deny impact and have better drift and this is completely fine and allowed on competition
I really would love to see a modern day tournament where everyone has to use fresh out of box game Cube controls only no mods. And don’t say it’s too expensive because we all know people paying hundreds of dollars for these mod controllers.
The issue is that even for OEM controllers players need to have enough time to practice on that hardware so that it feels natural to use. going from one OEM to another feels VERY different to high andd top level players
The sdi/lockout nerfs were available on the first public boxx firmware, and the input fuzzing stuff hasnt been public outside of non boxx related test initatives
The thing that sucks the most of the Prism/Schism is just how absurd the price is. it's by far the most expensive control for smash and even more expensive then maxed out phobs.
the worst part is the clear advantage box/digital only controllers have, even being "nerfed" like the manufacturers say, being able to wavedash shine pressing 4 buttons in an easy succession like writing on a keyboard even if it's not "perect lenght" is insane, being able to never miss a dashback and shieldropping consistently is nuts.
I literally have to super glue my magnets on all my phobs cuz all my 1.0s break either from paracord or the magnet sensors break off. Dont get me started on Phob software updates...
For regular ones, Ebay is probably the easiest but is inconsistent quality wise. You have to be selective and vigilant. Japanese sellers are the best. Great controllers, prices, support, and somehow even their shipping times are better.
With Hall Effect switches coming out that are basically analog inputs, it just takes someone to build a smashbox with Hall Effect sensors representing both stick. SOCD behavior should be neutral instead of last input priority. If stick folks gotta go through neutral for opposing directions, then so should box ppl
Im so glad the Frame 1 failed because the guy who made it basically scammed Hax (he was originally the guy in charge of manufacturing Boxx's bc his dad owned a factory but he sucked at his job and never met deadlines and so when Hax tried firing him and finding a new guy he sued Hax.)
The way you went about the panda cup story should have been done in a more neutral way. You went out of your way to say allegedly and then accused him of doing things for personal gain which makes saying allegedly earlier completely pointless. The general consensus of the community at the time of the controversy was colored by a lot of strong emotions for obvious reasons so I feel like when you look back at the facts and statements said at the time when it all went down you get a much more reasonable view of the situation. In my opinion Panda's CEO could have done things better, but it really wasn't as bad as everyone seemed to think at the time. It's really not obvious if it was just him being bad at optics or if it was malicious.
Does anyone know if the Prism or The Schism is useable for 2d fighters like Guilty Gear Strive? I've thought about trying all button controllers but Id only wanna try a controller that allows you not to have your hands be flat for ergonomic purposes.
if youre playing on pc, those controllers can be used and remapped like any standard controller and would definitely work for strive. Playing on a playstation or xbox wouldn’t work without having an additional controller board, though they can work on switch without any additional modifications
@@emersonarthur3776 Thanks for the reply, unfortunately I shoudlve specified that I'd want something that would work on PS5, PS4 and PC. For tourney purposes. Shame that platform compatibility is yet another barrier to finding the controller best for you.
Anyone feel like UCF shield drop is too easy? I've never played with a modded controller too Habit I'm working on resolving but occasionally I shield drop by accident which never happened in Vanilla
I'm honestly surprised Z jumping or some other fix hasn't become more normalized. I remember back in my competitive halo 3 days, if you didn't play on bumper jumper you were going to lose. Basically you can't be taking your finger off the directional inputs to hit jump, and I know claw has a pretty steep learning curve but the idea behind it is pretty necessary
Since Panda recently teased something about the new controller, I imagine that it’ll come out alongside Smash Ultimate Deluxe or a new Smash game if that comes out first. I think if they really want this to be super profitable immediately there’s not much of a point in dropping them now. I can also see them maybe forgoing some features to lower the price a to somewhat match a standard GCC.
I love how in your examples of all the broken things boxx lets you do, you show GCC users doing them. Jmook doing crouch -> uptilt. Wizzy doing insane SDI that, frankly, I've never even even seen a boxx player do. Boxx gets shit on for being broken and op and yet we haven't seen examples of that in competitive play in its ~7 years of being on the market. Really makes you think.
Can we (me) get links to the videos mentioned here in the description? I wouldn't mind watching through a playlist of all of them. I just lose track of their title after watching.
The first thing I found jarring when I played a smash game for the first time was forced analog movement in a 2D game. It wasn't til years later I learned that Melee had it the absolute worst when it came to this kind of thing. Being what we in the fighting game community would call a "Kusoge" and it's analog stick related jank causing the need for the most specific of controllers at high level. It's not like the Kusoge that I am used to. They're hella broken but because the input is all digital it's viable on any controller.
Ngl him saying Dan salvato was just the creator of DDL is crazy 😭 he made project M broooooo
Not gonna lie brother, I completely forgot project m was a game for a sec oops
Bruh
also 20xxTE
Also 20XX Tournament Edition, AND FFZ lol
At least you're not me who associates him with Yoshi's Story before anything else.
Mans controller died because he didn't cut the fucking cables to the rumble pack 😭
The Panda controller’s story is so sad. It was the only one that just seemed like a good video game controller rather than an “optimal melee device”. I hope one day there can be something like it in the future.
What happened to panda in general was so tragic. The smash community can be so stupid sometimes.
@@HarrisonWeber21 Smash community is actually incredibly stupid nearly every time. There are still many players that are banned from competing/existing in the community that no one wants to speak up about literally due to how badly the smash community is correlated to cancel culture. A bunch of sheep and impressionable teenagers that want to follow along with everyone else by virtue signaling on twitter
I want this controller so bad. Not just for melee and smash, but fighting games and all gamepad controllers for PC, gamecube, Switch (and other consoles with adapters).
For me it's more the fact that it's an ideal ass controller casually too. Like it could be used to play anying and everything, probably would have had pressable sticks. It would have just been perfect
Pretty sure panda's collapse was all on panda and not the melee community. They hemmoraged and disbanded from every fighting game. @HarrisonWeber21
One thing a lot of videos miss about the Jmook phob breakdown is that Jmook had an older 1.X.X phob. Newer 2.X.X phobs dont have that same issue.
In detail: The 1.X.X models of phobs required more power and had to use the rumble motors 5V power line and on some wiis that power line can stop working temporarily which on an OEM or 2.X.X phob only stops the rumble from working while on an 1.X.X stops the entire controller from working.
That's also why the gamecube adapter for WiiU/Switch has two USB inputs. One of them (they grey one) is basically dedicated to supplying extra power for the rumble motor.
For what its worth, enigineers from the Panda controller team are working on the Glyph controller that is a really cool option for those that want a box controller in basically any configuration.
The panda controller was actually doomed from the beginning. 2 days after the kickstarter launched, Nintendo told them to shut it down. Alan said they would have to get actual licensing from Nintendo and planned on doing it and restarting the Kickstarter but still same deal. I think we shot ourselves in the foot by going after Alan and panda.
The fact that they didn't have a license wouldn't have been a problem. There are no laws that require a manufacturer of a controller to get a license it just makes developing and selling it far easier. What would have been a problem is the fact that Nintendo has a patent on the gamecube controller which doesn't expire until August 4th of this year.
@@SirNarax right but they were trying to stay in good favor with Nintendo. Alan talked about it on a podcast a couple of months ago, that podcast was pretty interesting.
@@SirNaraxYou don’t say…
They originally claimed it was supply chain issues
@@nahometesfay1112 Yeah and supposedly that was true but there was far more happening than they told us. Go watch "Dr Alan Reveals EVERYTHING That Happened w/ Panda! | Lights Out Episode 36" and around 48:05 Dr. Alan talks about it.
the coordinate fuzzing nerf isnt actually applied yet, its just a proposal
It's also not a B0XX nerf it's a proposed rule set for all digital controllers and Hax$ is actually against it
@@nahometesfay1112that is a fucking boxx nerf (the boxx is a digital controller)
@@squoosh8285What I meant is this isn't a nerf implemented by the B0XX. The video talks about coordinate fuzzing as if it was a feature of the B0XX that was implemented by the company itself. Coordinate fuzzing is in fact a proposal from a third party and Hax$ is decidedly against it. Coordinates fuzzing clearly nerfs the B0XX. Sorry for the ambiguous wording.
If like to add something in defense of Alan of Panda. He did several interviews and released a statement that gave his side of the story. He said that he knew SWT was struggling to get a license so he was advising that if they didn’t want to potentially get shut down by Nintendo, getting Nintendo approved would be the safest path. No one knew what Nintendo would do and how strict they would be with their new licenses so it was smart to tell TOs about the danger. Also he left the company to separate the hate being targeted towards him form the company as not only that would potentially allow for its survival, but also because he and several of the employees, including the players, got doxxed.
I recommend reading his statement and listening to his interview yourself but I really disagree the idea that he was to blame for SWT getting shut down. A random esports guy is not ordering around goddamn Nintendo.
I mean the move to step away was definitely the right idea probably for the right reasons and he wouldn't have been able to influence Nintendo much but I feel like he and you both are seriously underselling the impact he had on TOs, especially when Nintendo's decisions during that time were under such strong scrutiny by the community and they very possibly might have reverted their decision to shut down SWT
when you have all the expensive mods and still lose to the 20yrs old hand me down no shell gcc
no shell?!?!?
@@smoceany9478 no chik fil a sauce???
Armada is from Gothenberg actually
Virginia - the same region that gave birth to melee legends Azen, Zain, and Drephen
(love the channel and vid tho, great job)
great video but I want to clear something up for the ppl. 10:55 A Macro is a SEQUENCE of inputs being emulated in a button press, not 2 buttons being same time. Like you press a button and Fox doubleshines. Thats a macro. Button remaps like Z jump shouldn't be confused in any way with Macros because they are completely different things. Most smashers get these things confused alot because they don't familiarize with other fighting game communities that have a more clear line of definition, so I'm just here to clear up that misinterpretation.
Smash players are terrible at hardmodding controllers. Every time I see soldering jobs for $300+ controllers, there's always way too much solder on one point, way too little, cracked soldering, board and point burning and flux left on the board. This is even a problem for really big modders. I guess its about right for a community that's horribly scared of new controllers to not know how to properly mod them.
Damn..
Imagine if they got their hands on hot glue
I'm not a melee player, i semi-regularly play ultimate and used to attend tournaments when i was younger.
The story of Panda's controller, and the group in general is just a tragedy to me. That concept, a controller that was pre-built, officially backed, and designed with more "dedicated" players in mind, was an incredible one. It's really a shame it never came to fruition.
nintendo had absolutely nothing to do with the controller
was daunted by the length of the vid but this is super informative and entertaining. me and my friends casually enjoyed competitive melee in HS. i moved to 2d fighters so was curious how their hitbox-esque controllers fared to how the FGC received the hitbox and its clones. great vid
smash and melee, controllers be costing the same as a ps5/xbox
Yeah, the markup is ridiculous!
You forgot that zain has played on a regular ass OEM for most of his career if not all
THIS.
at the end of the day, while having a modified controller might be nice and let you do some very particular extra stuff, it is not the limiting factor for 99% of players. buy an official controller from nintendo (which you can still do) and git gud.
the only real exception to this is those who need the ergonomics of something like a box or a prism due to hand issues, which is the very reason hax set out to make the B0XX in the first place.
that's not true LMAO
@@bruceU besides snapback mod it is true
I think many people (like myself) want a Phob not because it's going to make you a better player all of a sudden. It's because GameCube controllers are getting increasingly difficult to come across and the whole controller lottery thing. Having a a PODE free, consistent and durable controller is the main appeal for me.
Unlike Zain or other pros I can't afford to regularly buy new ones when the previous one start deteriorating, it also seems very wasteful.
In a perfect world we would have more software mods than hardware ones
in a perfect world, both hardware and software as well as the modification of either would be free!
In a perfect world Melee would be the last Smash game we ever got
I'm a perfect world, I would have transcended humanity and been playing melee in simultaneously in 14 dimensions.
"notching is not a controversial mod at all"
bruh out here literally straight up spreading misinfo, smh
Not really.
I still really want the panda controller. I hope someone buys the patents or someone steps up and makes something similar, the demand is obviously there and the fact that they were gonna add even more features like a diamond button layout....in a perfect world we'd have it in our hands by now....
How does that process work? It would be cool if someone bought them and made it free for everyone to use
The GC Ultimate seems very promising. Having doubts about backing it cause I personally don't trust Kickstarter. But if it's ever available for purchase and reviews come back favorably I'm getting one.
I might try to revive the Panda controller project on my own and open source it.
That would be AMAZING! We need more open source stuff! Just please make sure that the files for the shell AND pcb are also open source and freely available!
this is a great video, it's got that great high-quality smash editing style, and it's a full hour!!! I love long videos like this because you really get into a good groove with them after the 40 minute mark
Low key, if the smashstick actually came out like 7-8 years ago. It probably would have been exploded in popularity and competing with phobs. People really like stick controllers while boxx are always going to be niche. Heck the smashstick had stuff that phobs had years before phob became a thing.
low key, if the smash stick actually came out, I'd finally be happy my $500 actually got me something. This is the best any of us backers can really hope for anymore :P
Melee's controller situation has gotten a good deal of criticism for being "pay to win" but I'll be honest, I find the further and further advancement of controllers super fascinating to witness. At a local I went to recently, I chatted with a local controller modder and the level of technical know-how some of these people have is absolutely astounding. The guy had installed a screen into the side of his Wii so he could check the controller input polling or control stick angles (I'll be honest, I'm not 100% sure what it was for, it's been a minute since I saw it and I was talking with him about a lot of stuff beyond that). And witnessing the technical arms race of gamecube controller and box controllers has been kind of fun to watch once you just let go of all the accusations coming from people about "cheater controllers." It is genuinely a shame that the range of $60-ish controllers for people to start out on is quite literally non-existant, anyone looking to buy a controller these days is pretty much looking for 10 year old controllers from back when smash 4 was reproducing the controller, or something highly customized to the point that they're essentially designer 3rd-party controllers. I don't know if pay-to-win is 100% the correct term to use, it's not like professional athletes are playing with cheap equipment like tennis rackets, bats, balls, bowling balls, shoes, etc, it's not an entirely inaccurate statement to make if a new player is just trying to play some games on slippi and is looking to move away from using some x-input controller they've been gaming on pc with.
I've been using a xbox pro controller (x-input) into slippi for years. Also the controller input screen is a gimmick you can use to see your opponent's inputs during the game. It allows you to know the exact angle of a fox/falco Up-B for example, among other ways you can glance at their inputs to take advantage of a situation.
Last I check they are still making GameCube controllers, though they are a little different.
I started playing melee with an X box one controller and Z jumping lol
I didn't even know about any Z jumping discourse, I just liked that button layout from Ultimate
It really is pay to win tho. Only at top level tho because your less likely to miss inputs. I can’t wait for the day when we can play games with just our mind it will be amazing and then it will be really boring/ and or new top players will come in and old top players will leave dude to the fact that their are players who have bigger brains but not good on the sticks and games in general unless it’s an rpg prioritized who better on sticks over big brain moves
Nintendo had no hand in developing the Panda controller. In fact, I strongly suspect that they contributed to shutting it down, and I have heard other rumors to that effect.
You suspect it but Alan has gone on record multiple times claiming that to be truth
@@Fireshot844the truth being Nintendo tried to shut the controller down or the official justification about the Chinese manufacturer and stuff?
I think one of the reasons boxx style controllers are not more common is because basically all of them become instantly sold out. It's actually really hard to get them. In fact even right now your options is usually wait months for a controllers. Though in the last two years there was like 3 good options but now there are like 8 good options so the scariccity of controllers are slightly less of a issue. It's still super expensive and hard to get.
They're not more common because they sold out??? That's a weird way to put it, you might put more emphasis on the lack of production rather than the extremely successful sales rate
the old "nobody goes there anymore cause it's too busy"
The markup on these controllers is insane ...
guys what if the goomwave was called 'goonwave'?
When he said that in the video I thought he was joking 😂 all I could think of
47:30 the reason why Alan talked
to tos about smash world tour getting shut down by Nintendo, was because swt was trying to get a license from Nintendo in a timeframe of a few months and had sponsorships lined up for it, which took panda years he knew that would never work so in context Alan was just given tos a heads up, not really that shady in my eyes
him doing in a vacuum might not be shady, but the way he went about it was. poor execution sunk the ship.
Basically all major TO's have huge egos and Alan managed to anger some of them, so when SWT could not get a license and likely causing them to lose sponserships with this he ambugies legality of it gimer decided to spend his decade+ of good will and political capital to ruin panda cup, i guess as a act of revenge.
Just the Idea that panda global has some or any control of a multi billion dollar company is just absurdity and the hate hinged on this being the case.
So now there are no leagues for smash, any hope of a governing body formed ruined, and one of the biggest organizations contributing and subsizing smash, that included a major news and content channels for smash, is defacto dead. No one wins yay!
@@AL-lh2ht nah, you’re pretty wrong on this take. most major TOs don’t have “huge egos,” they’re just trying their hardest to make the best events they can, which is both incredibly difficult and stressful to pull off. they’re fallible humans, and when their literal life’s work is threatened by some guy who deceitfully appears to be pulling some strings somewhere they got justifiably pretty scared. and a panda cup/nintendo affiliated league would have not been good for melee. grassroots ftw. it’s better this way.
granted it’s a shame that panda as a whole had to die. but they went the way of icarus. too close to the sun.
@@dropandy1453this is probably the most accurate representation from the discourse I've read online, i think a lot of the melee community is super weird for trying to build a villain out of either alan/panda or the TOs, like it was ultimately poor communication and consistency on panda's side with both Nintendo and the community at large, but even then it's not like they weren't coming from a place of well-meaning. Just seems like missteps and a couple assumptions about the public perception of the events led to pandas downfall as a company.
@@NATE-bz7mx yeah that’s cause i know a few of those TO boogeymen that people like to claim have “huge egos” without ever having talked to them once. people seem to like having a “side” or “good and bad guys” cause it makes things simple to think about.
My take: Gamecube controllers are just awful; they are terrible as far as ergonomics goes, and makes it impossible to do certain things consistently. The second we are no longer talking about developing SKILL to pull something off, but simply nerfing clearly superior input methods to match the lack of consistency of a controller that is garbage, we should just admit that these controllers need to go and we should allow these new types of controllers without the majority of these nerfs. Hell, if you want to talk about a barrier to entry, you will spend LESS on one of these box style controllers than you would some modded controllers... and the controllers WILL wear out, and fast.
You say that yet GC controllers are still the standard for almost every smash game since Melee with not that much of a fight. Clearly must've done something right, and this is coming from someone who's fine with anything that's not a standalone Wii Remote.
@@LambdaBelmont , simply because something is accepted, says nothing about it being "right" or desirable or optimal. That would be an appeal to popularity or an appeal to tradition, or some other informal logical fallacy depending on how it is worded.
I get it... I use a fight stick because I enjoy the feel of it, but the difference is with proper technique I can avoid injury. The fact is it is both inferior ergonomically, less consistent, doesn't last as long, and is more expensive than the newer types of controllers. I have nostalgia too since I played the hell out of this game casually when it first came out. Nostalgia is the only benefit I see, so I think we should be honest.
ngl i simply disagree, I've played melee on gcc, Xbox controllers, briefly on b0xx, ps4 controllers, switch pro controllers, and of all of them the face button placement for the gcc works best for my hands personally. I think they're poorly made on a production and material quality level, and need to be held under more scrutiny when possible, but a lot of the raw design aspects i really like. I like the stick heights and placements, I like the L and R triggers vertical feeling over the hinge design of most others, I like the octagon gates around the stick as opposed to circular gates like the Xbox or ps4, there's just a lot i really like about it. I agree with the barrier of entry to some degree, but I think it's so dependent on your history with games that like, no answer is a perfect skill curve for everyone. I grew up with a gamecube, not a pc or hitbox, so learning melee competitively was likely a lot easier for someone like me compared to someone even like, a nintendo fan who skipped the gamecube or wii, even more with someone who's already played on a boxx or on pc where keyboard inputs at least acclimate your hands to that board-style. but yeah, gccs are really poorly built, but I do think their design is almost my perfect controller no joke. Just gimme a ZL button, clickable sticks, and I'm sold for eternity lol
@@LambdaBelmont it's called," we grew up with these things and now they're part of us, for better or worse." it's not a logical argument.
@@LambdaBelmontA lot of ult players use a pro controller. The GCC is just the standard because of the legacy melee has had on the scene and because it was practically the only good controller you could get for two smash games (melee and brawl).
If I remember correctly, in smash 64 you can use almost everything and people have entered with keyboards. I think the same also applies to PM but I'm not 100% sure.
notching is still controversial. you also dont NEED notches to win a major (zain). zain just made a really long tweet about it
Don't worry redditors in bronze 2 on slippi ranked will still say the game is impossible to play without shield drop and firefox notches and $400 worth of other controller mods.
It's not that there needed. They just help alot.
Ok but he plays Marth not Fox
One top player saying they don't like notches doesn't make it "still controversial." Every tournament accepts them, and a ton of players use them. They're 100% accepted save for the yearly controller discourse that happens in the community.
If you play fox they are basically needed
I have never played melee competitively but I've been watching for years. I never knew it was this bad until I had to get just a normal Gc controller. The amazon ones are insanely cheap but break after 1 week. I bought a few random controllers and I found the Retro Fighter BattlerGC. I ordered it and had to wait over a year to get it. It randomly showed up one day. I tried to use it only to find the left stick had inverted controls. They ignored me when I asked for a swap or refund. I ended up finding an original orange one for 10$ at a garage sell, plus a silver one from a highschool friend who did play competitive melee. The stick was all messed up but I can fix that eventually
Thanks for making this video! Super informative for someone who has been away from the scene awhile
8:05 This video is great, but I'm here to shoutout using the battle music from Yu-Gi-Oh! The Eternal Duelist Soul as bgm here. Thst theme was always a favorite of mine, so I'm glad to see it get some love.
I know this is an hour long video, but as someone who followed through a lot of the smashbox controversy and has done controller research, this is actually quite succinct. I learned quite a few things i didnt know as well. Big props, this is very helpful for anyone looking to seriously navigate through this market right now.
the prism, the schism, the tism
56:40 the answer is to ban all good controllers and force everyone to compete with shitty GameStop controllers
science fiction
double feature
Doctor X will build a creature
Losing all of nintendos support sounds like losing something you never had
Iron Spartan jumpscare
“PXSSY FACING DA WORLD”😂
I have a friend who plays on keyboard, like an actual keyboard, a Razer Huntsman Mini. She uses an adapter to play on console. She also took a game off of Hungrybox in the Puff ditto in person.
57:51 what the heck was that shield break LMAO
Damn son I would have taken the rumble motor out of it to avoid playing with a vibrator and save some of its durability
There's something so deeply satisfying about making and modding your own gamecube controller.
Considering the quality of this vid your sub count is super low. Liked and subbed, this was a super fun watch and hope you keep making more awesome content!
If he already had a lot of subscribers, you wouldn’t have subbed??
@@CharlesRyu no I’m saying that I didn’t expect it to be as well made as it was and because it exceeded my expectations I subbed
27:56 you know it smells crazy in there
Still can’t believe that Hall Effect sticks haven’t become a standard for melee controllers.
This video was really awesome as a hustory of controllers. It was really informative and well presented!
Couldn't you just remove the rumble motor from that controller?
I have been playing on a white OEM since 2019 and I really want to try a phob. Just can't justify spending that much on a controller when I still have alot to learn about the game in general.
you can give a modder your controller and have them install the phob motherboard on it. was ~$60 for me
@@DrewDone my reply was seemingly deleted, hopefully that doesn't happen again. I went to CfanCustoms, who is in the san jose area, and by the looks of his twitter his conversions are now $85. not sure about anything in socal tho, sorry.
@@dropandy1453 do you have the melee discord? Maybe we can meet up in there to talk about it.
@@DrewDone if this one works, I went to CfanCustoms, from the SJ area. he's doing $85 conversions now, which is a little more expensive but imo worth it if you're willing and able to make the drive to norcal.
@@dropandy1453 gotcha broski
those closing comments from mango warm my heart. the melee spirit is bunch of people having friendlies in a garage :)
this was a really cool video, and i'm happy you included that last section. honestly, the controller is what is stopping me from trying to learn melee, but it's because i can't even afford the frame 1 :( . the controller mods also seem very expensive, so i probably can't use those either.
Technically if we’re really thinking of where to put up since it’s right by your thumb which u use a lot when controlling your characters movement on a gcc. Plus your pinky is the least used finger along with your brain normally not thinking of using your pinky as often as it is using its other fingers.
(Mainly what I’m saying is the important buttons should be regularly accessible ) where the least are further away i.e top to bottom instead of bottom to top as for other inputs in and out is best and make sure to cross your fingers as little as possible when doing more complex inputs.
Cuz tbh the Boxx in terms of layout is kinda bias.(aka only favoring fox and falco) not trying to to complain im just saying if we’re making a product for-gamers(in this case melee players it has to be able to be use for any character they play)
damn i just woke up and saw this, good video
50:00 TLDR Panda saw the writing on the wall with the HUNDREDS of suits Nintendo was filing and Jumped ship and warned others. The community stoned the prophet.
Man it still stings that the panda controller fizzled out...
you could actually build your own smash stick with the paradise arcade shop magenta stick
Hey I think this is a great video, but I have 1 small criticism, and that is that it seems like you didn't review your script before doing VO. I noticed some factual errors and awkward wording, some of which you noticed and corrected while in the editing process, but I would recommend editing your script a bit earlier on in the process when you're doing this video essay style content. Ideally your script would be able to stand alone as a normal paper essay so I'd just recommend reading through it a few times and maybe even getting a friend to read it, see if there's anything that stands out as incorrect or unnecessary. Clearly a great deal of effort and research was poured into this video and it's a very comprehensive history, I love how it's laid out, I think the one extra pass of polish will take you so far and I'm excited to see more from you!
Dog when he hit that jam from Yu-Gi-Oh EDS I lost it.
The melee scene should make an open source clone of melee that has all the nintendo IP removed. This way people can implement not only the controller fixes, but also online play without having to deal with copyright BS.
Nintendo may have built the pitch, but they shouldn't own the game.
I’m pretty sure part of the reason the goomwave dropped off because there was multiple people, all approved as goomwave modders who started to have beef with each-other, with different people claiming stuff like they were the real ‘official’ goomwave modder, the best one, or better than specific other modders, and people got confused by or scared off from the situation.
Also people got tired of having to buy a well made but expensive controller that required regular maintenance since it would still develop pode.
Also, the phob was coming out, so it was pretty much better since the magnet sensors don’t have potentiometers, so pode isn’t an issue. And since it was open source there’s less ‘official modder’ drama, you can get whatever decent modder (who knows what they’re doing) to make you one, and it’s cheaper if you have access to and can use a soldering iron
If those custom motherboards are legal why wouldn’t arduinos become legal again ? If someone gives me the code I can easily mod a GameCube controller with a 5€ worth of material
Just make macros not allowed
Does anyone else think this video was just an excuse to talk drama and specifically about hax?
Haven’t watched it yet but judging by the fact he private his previous video where he sucked Leffen off, I wouldn’t put it past him
What's that input software at 0:42 called?
I feel like the wave dash values should be based on timing instead of randomized. If you want that perfect wave dash length you have to hit the buttons at a frame perfect timing, otherwise you'll get a weakened angle. I feel like this would also allow players to adjust their timing for mixups and gain more analog range in the digital input.
58:50 not fun 2 lose knowing your opponent has a pay 2 win unfair advantage
"My brother in Christ, he's using Fox" this had me literally laugh out loud
That prism controller looks sick! I thought it looked cooky then saw it in someone's lap and it looked natural
Imagine if the 100 yards runners started designing new custom shoes that let you run easier, with extra speed, special cotton to deny impact and have better drift and this is completely fine and allowed on competition
0:56 i literally just bought that controller a couple days before watching this video LOL
One day when there’s actual rules again and they ban all this stuff I’ll come back to competing/playing on a standard gcc… or so i hope.
aren't goomwaves banned?
I really would love to see a modern day tournament where everyone has to use fresh out of box game Cube controls only no mods. And don’t say it’s too expensive because we all know people paying hundreds of dollars for these mod controllers.
The issue is that even for OEM controllers players need to have enough time to practice on that hardware so that it feels natural to use. going from one OEM to another feels VERY different to high andd top level players
you'll still run into problems where certain Gc controllers are better than others.
The sdi/lockout nerfs were available on the first public boxx firmware, and the input fuzzing stuff hasnt been public outside of non boxx related test initatives
The thing that sucks the most of the Prism/Schism is just how absurd the price is. it's by far the most expensive control for smash and even more expensive then maxed out phobs.
the worst part is the clear advantage box/digital only controllers have, even being "nerfed" like the manufacturers say, being able to wavedash shine pressing 4 buttons in an easy succession like writing on a keyboard even if it's not "perect lenght" is insane, being able to never miss a dashback and shieldropping consistently is nuts.
Can’t wait to watch twin
Subscribed. Great video.
I literally have to super glue my magnets on all my phobs cuz all my 1.0s break either from paracord or the magnet sensors break off. Dont get me started on Phob software updates...
The lies about Dr Allan are crazy. Please check out the technicals video about Panda if you actually want to know what happened. Thanks.
Hey guys Im just getting into melee, what are my options for finding 2 controllers?
For regular ones, Ebay is probably the easiest but is inconsistent quality wise. You have to be selective and vigilant. Japanese sellers are the best. Great controllers, prices, support, and somehow even their shipping times are better.
1:33 bruh 💀💀💀
glad to make the 1 second cameo lol
What can I say I’m a fan sir
@@JuicemanSSBM appreciate it dawg! Stoked to have made the cut 😍 great vid dawg
Free Hax$
loved the mario party 5 ost throughout this vid :)
With Hall Effect switches coming out that are basically analog inputs, it just takes someone to build a smashbox with Hall Effect sensors representing both stick. SOCD behavior should be neutral instead of last input priority. If stick folks gotta go through neutral for opposing directions, then so should box ppl
Bruh I don’t have that money for a controller.. I might have a diy my own ghetto ass controller out of cardboard or something
Im so glad the Frame 1 failed because the guy who made it basically scammed Hax (he was originally the guy in charge of manufacturing Boxx's bc his dad owned a factory but he sucked at his job and never met deadlines and so when Hax tried firing him and finding a new guy he sued Hax.)
The way you went about the panda cup story should have been done in a more neutral way. You went out of your way to say allegedly and then accused him of doing things for personal gain which makes saying allegedly earlier completely pointless. The general consensus of the community at the time of the controversy was colored by a lot of strong emotions for obvious reasons so I feel like when you look back at the facts and statements said at the time when it all went down you get a much more reasonable view of the situation. In my opinion Panda's CEO could have done things better, but it really wasn't as bad as everyone seemed to think at the time. It's really not obvious if it was just him being bad at optics or if it was malicious.
Either way he shouldn't have done any of that as a CEO, so him getting ousted was pretty much a given lol
Does anyone know if the Prism or The Schism is useable for 2d fighters like Guilty Gear Strive? I've thought about trying all button controllers but Id only wanna try a controller that allows you not to have your hands be flat for ergonomic purposes.
if youre playing on pc, those controllers can be used and remapped like any standard controller and would definitely work for strive. Playing on a playstation or xbox wouldn’t work without having an additional controller board, though they can work on switch without any additional modifications
@@emersonarthur3776 Thanks for the reply, unfortunately I shoudlve specified that I'd want something that would work on PS5, PS4 and PC. For tourney purposes. Shame that platform compatibility is yet another barrier to finding the controller best for you.
Anyone feel like UCF shield drop is too easy?
I've never played with a modded controller too
Habit I'm working on resolving but occasionally I shield drop by accident which never happened in Vanilla
Would love to see what a none nerf box controller would play like
I'm honestly surprised Z jumping or some other fix hasn't become more normalized. I remember back in my competitive halo 3 days, if you didn't play on bumper jumper you were going to lose. Basically you can't be taking your finger off the directional inputs to hit jump, and I know claw has a pretty steep learning curve but the idea behind it is pretty necessary
Since Panda recently teased something about the new controller, I imagine that it’ll come out alongside Smash Ultimate Deluxe or a new Smash game if that comes out first.
I think if they really want this to be super profitable immediately there’s not much of a point in dropping them now. I can also see them maybe forgoing some features to lower the price a to somewhat match a standard GCC.
its never went through a period of revolution i wouldnt say its out of control just finally fully realizing what it can be
kick-ass video you got here
Nasb 1 jumpscare
I love how in your examples of all the broken things boxx lets you do, you show GCC users doing them. Jmook doing crouch -> uptilt. Wizzy doing insane SDI that, frankly, I've never even even seen a boxx player do. Boxx gets shit on for being broken and op and yet we haven't seen examples of that in competitive play in its ~7 years of being on the market. Really makes you think.
bro this is some F1 level of RnD and maintenance dedication. why is melee still looked down on as a esport!?!?!?
Can we (me) get links to the videos mentioned here in the description? I wouldn't mind watching through a playlist of all of them. I just lose track of their title after watching.
The first thing I found jarring when I played a smash game for the first time was forced analog movement in a 2D game. It wasn't til years later I learned that Melee had it the absolute worst when it came to this kind of thing. Being what we in the fighting game community would call a "Kusoge" and it's analog stick related jank causing the need for the most specific of controllers at high level. It's not like the Kusoge that I am used to. They're hella broken but because the input is all digital it's viable on any controller.