Why Golden Era Bodybuilders Had Small Delts - Interview with Ken Waller
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- In this sixth video in the Ken Waller series, I ask Ken why it is that Golden Era Bodybuilders had small delts. Enjoy.
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It's quite sad how bodybuilding traded aesthetics for mass. The modern delts have always looked out of proportion to me. Though I suppose as you said, with the amount of gear they blast and the disproportionate amount of receptors in the delts, the imbalance is probably somewhat inevitable.
I completely agree. there's always something strange when I see most bodybuilders with disproportionate delts.
@nattylife that's exactly why I call it the sweet spot. If anyone decides to use anabolic, then why surpass this level of development? Obtaining mass at all costs doesn't make any sense to me
i disagree somewhat. ARNOLD was a mass monster for his time. and his arms where freakishly huge. almost too big.
Not sure about you, but I recall when I first started even in the 80's, flipping through magazines etc,,,,,I knew who was in the pics without even seeing their faces. You could identify certain guys just by their arms, legs etc,,,,Those days were great, and now, with a few exceptions, it's just genetic freaks with huge mass, but very difficult to identify without recognizing their face.
bodybuilding was always about mass lol, even the golden era winners were always the biggest guys (Arnold, Sergio...) with the exception of frank zane who competed in a weaker era after arnold's depature from the sport. Guys werent as big cause insulin, GH and they simply werent eating as much food as now. Anabolics wise... lets not kid ourselves, some of these guys popped dbol like it was candy (Arnold). Their delts didnt look as big partly because when you dont lean down and dry out enough, your arms look puffy and that area between the medial delt and arm is blurred too. This reduces the "capped delts" look.
I disagree, Golden Era guys had perfect delts. Modern Pro's have over-developed delts, hamstrings, thighs, WAY too big glutes and under developed arms.
I think today’s bodybuilders number one overdeveloped body part is the inner thigh. It literally throws everything off, including making your quads look small.
Don’t forget weak backs and calves. Those take time and maturity
Agreed smaller delts looks waaay better
@@phoenixrisin2269agree
Right? That ugly hyperbolic, ogre shoulder look has killed BBING.
Since the 90s, site enhancement injections have been common especially before shows. They will inject oil into lagging body parts or use substances that will inflame the area causing it to swell up. Its extremely common for them to do this in the side delts as this area is harder for many to build up.
I think if you look at todays bbers, what many lack compared to golden age bbers are forearms. I think this is from relying on too many machines as well as straps on every exercise, so they miss out on all the grip work that builds thick strong forearms.
Truth on both...plus synthetic use sky rocketed...powered by oil 🛢 👌 😁
it's crazy how much forearms are overshadowed by upper arms. i have 16" arms so far but i also have 13.75" forearms and people tell me all the time "your arms are huge" it's all about the forearms baby💪
That pic of Roelly. Deserved at least one Mr. Olympia.
This, SEO is the answer.
@Buldok88 I don't think its the right answer. They might get away with it a few times but eventually it looks obvious and looks ugly. They end up with no muscle definition/seperation in the body part they injected. In the end it's not Bodybuilding it's cosmetic surgery.
Having lived through the golden era and present in the bodybuilding gyms of the times I can say we blasted delts just like any other body part. As Ken stated the standard was around 20 total set’s usually 4 different movements, that comes straight from Arnold’s own encyclopedia of bodybuilding . I agree, current bodybuilders are using more and different PED’s but as others have commented the use of site enhancing oils is very popular now and really are adding to the bulbous look of the delts in modern bodybuilders.
This was such a good interview - well done Bookworm. The question at 4:24 was totally spot on. I've noticed as well that naturals like Joel Kellett don't have the massively capped shoulders. Just a really good aesthetic. Starting to think delt size/development is a key in seeing who is natty and who isn't.
Yes, this and other tell tale signs such as redness of the skin, excessive vascularity year round.
Starting to think? Bruh, I've been into bodybuilding since I was like 12 years old, I'm currently 27, and I've known that massive and striated delts are a clear sign of steroids usage since like forever... This isn't news.
@@astroman0500 Well done
Joel kellet is not natural
I kind of disagree with the "over developed" term. The amount of gear might justify bigger shoulders, but it doesn't mean they look bad. 92-97 Kevin Levrone had big shoulders and he looked amazing.
Another point is that since 1970 the human population has doubled and bodybuilding has become mainstream. To this end there is a much bigger genetic pool and also more people being exposed to bodybuilding, thus we will also see more people with high genetic potential coming through.
Love these points of discussion 👏
Total nonsense. Better gene pool?? Is that how you explain why bodybuilders have acquired ripped glutes and delts as smooth as a baby's ass in the rear double biceps pose??😂 Today's massive delts are the result of Synthol and site-enhancemant oils. It's that simple. You never wondered how Hadi has a ripped six pack, striated chest and quads, yet shapeless blobs for delts that are particularly noticeable in poses such as the front relaxed and rear double biceps?? You fanboys kill me with your excuses.
Bodybuilding is far less mainstream now than it used to be. Most people would be disgusted by modern men's open physiques. But lifting in general is more mainstream.
Very impressive and respectable comment
True in general, but also big prize money gets anyone with potential to stay in the game and do whatever is needed to win. 1st Olympia only paid $1000., and it was a couple of decades after that before the numbers started getting big. When a guy may win $250K in the O, and some pretty good money all the way down to 5th, lots of incentive to train and take risks.
An old time axiom was that "there's no such thing as over developed shoulders". I recall reading that Steve Reeves mused about someday doing nothing BUT shoulder exercises.
He would have looked ridiculous with delts like todays bodybuilders.
Arnold for example had/has small bone structure in the shoulders. He also has the dropped shoulder type of physique(with relatively long neck and tall traps, totally opposed to Markus Ruhl with raised and wide shoulders, short neck and small traps.
Very different from Arnold was Sergio Oliva with bigger shoulders and in between Arnold and Markus in terms of bone structure.
Yes, structure due to genetics is a great example of why this illusion played out
Serg the French dude had huge delts along with Franco
@@EchoEcho-q4rafrican, not french
@s1ash1 He was born and raised in Guadalupe and moved to France. He was a French citizen and spoke French. Yes, obviously, he was black, and his ancestors came from the continent of Africa but he still was French.
@@odessafile75 he’s not french. if you believe he is french you also support the replacement of europeans
Deltoids in particular are a target for "site enhancement" substances like Synthrol that did not exist in the Golden Era. I believe site enhancement (injecting oil or silicone or other fillers into a muscle to make it appear larger) was not practiced until the 1990s (Flex Wheeler was one of its pioneers).
Nothing to do with that. The most steroid receptors are in the shoulders. More and stronger drugs, bigger shoulders
@@phoenixrisin2269 All of the anabolic steroids popular today were around in the 1970s-1980s and were pharmaceutical grade. While average dosages are certainly higher now, even back then there were bodybuilders taking multiple grams/week. Site injections have made quite a difference in certain muscle groups in the past three decades; obviously in terms of total muscle mass seen onstage the biggest changes since the golden era are due to the combo of HGH and insulin plus the tendency to stay on-cycle year-round.
@@phoenixrisin2269 Correct.
@@phoenixrisin2269Rami , Hadi, abd cbum to name just a few absolutely inject their shoulders and it does have some carry over. Rami and Hadi look ridiculous.
I just target the delts with Humiston and Cavialieri's advice and skip the needles altogether
You touched on one factor that plays a role. Bodybuilding exploded in popularity in the 1980s and became much more mainstream. With Arnold in the movies, more people were exposed to it and more likely to get involved. With more people getting involved, the quality of the genetic pool in bodybuilding got better. More popularity brings in more people raising the quality of the genetic pool in the sport. That could be a contributing factor to the high quality of bodybuilders witnessed in the 1990s and beyond.
The best genetics rise to the top and part of those genetics are anabolic/androgenic response. So more people with better genetics get involved, and they're taking different and more gear. The combination of those two factors could account for the change in shoulder development. Then, once those genetically gifted people display incredible shoulders, others go after the look in unnatural ways (implants, synthol, etc.) and it begins to look as if everyone who trains shoulders automatically gets amazing-looking shoulders.
I came to this understanding in a conversation with Dr. Stone at lunch one day. When asked why Europe had so many high quality Olympic weightlifters compared to the U.S., he said, "Because our great Olympic weightlifters are playing football instead." [American football.] He went on to explain that in the U.S., the same people with genetic talents for Olympic weightlifting can use those talents in a more popular sport to potentially make more money. Therefore, the genetic pool that enters Olympic weightlifting in the U.S. is smaller. The people with the best genetics for Olympic weightlifting in Europe don't have American football competing for their attention.
Very interesting subject and video. I have trained with or witnessed a few Mr. Olympia and Mr. Universe contestants and a couple of winners from the 70's and there was no shortage of hard work being done. The strength and weights being used by some of these guys was extreme. It's a wonder that all of them don't have shoulder problems from doing those seated behind the neck presses. I've read some articles that place the trap and delt growth on not just larger amounts of steroids but certain steroids that weren't the main drugs used in the 70's, like equipoise.
Yes, this is exactly 💯 true. That is one of the points I made, without going into too much detail
If you have normal mobility, btn presses should never give problems. But most sedentary people are so deformed that normally safe movements could hurt them.
The golden era didn’t have small deltoids, those are small muscles, they were the right size according to the physique, now they are just way too big, even bigger than flutes sometimes
My personal opinion might be the fact that the delts didn’t get a chance to grow due to the amount of frequency that the delts were being used….delts back then were being used 4-6 times a week…
This is actually a good point and I’m a life long bodybuilder so when you define the word “use” yes delts get activated in both push and pull workouts ie when working out lats it’s not intended to be a delt day. This issue still exists to this day. Some pros are blessed with genetics and taking great gear they can hit body parts just once a week and reduce delt involvement but for me using a 6 day routine i hit each body part twice a week and delts do get activated 4 times just to a lessor extent on pull days. There is just no way around it for some of us
Training science has advanced. Golden era trained harder (over trained like a m’fer). The more mass, the less frequency and duration should be approached. Ped’s aside, yes, ped science is far more advanced as well but golden era believed more is better, at a certain point more is overtraining and hinders growth. You grow in a state of rest. They probably could have been bigger in the golden era knowing this.
Small felts looked good coupled with symmetry. Modern day shoulders are unbecoming.
The secret of large deltoid muscles in modern bodybuilders is synthol. There was no synthol in the Golden Era.
🎯
Well I disagree with synthol being the reason why shoulders are.bigger now, we all know who uses synthol, the hard workers and gifted have grea shoulders, synthol is for those that can't do the hard workouts, then they cheat, but it.doesnt look natural, at times has pointy areas😅
Golden Era of Bodybuilding with the slim waist and tapered look are the best physics. Starting with Dorian Yates it went down hill. Yates black and white photos of himself at his peak, were mind blowing.
Today, the shoulders often dwarf the chest, which looks all wrong to me.
This has been answered many times by several body builders. This guy sounds like he's almost trying to claim they were natural or close to it. The greats from the Golden era weren't taking any less steroids and were taking many of the same compounds that are used today. The most truthful answer to this question is simply that the aesthetic of the time was more focused on having large arms and having massive delts detracts from the biceps in a back double pose. The training is similar yes, but there isna lot more emphasis on delts now. I don't believe for one second that it has to do with using less steroids. Especially considering this is the first guy I have heard saying it's anything other than aesthetics.
yeah its definately a boomer mentality
Arnold did not have a ‘tiny waist’ the opposite in fact he was criticised for having ‘boxy’ hips
Because that didn’t train properly, especially Arnold didn’t know how to do shoulders, especially with rear delt, he used to lie down in the bench, going against gravity, ruin the rotator cup without getting any engagement with the muscle?
DAMMMMN, Ken is a REAL OG; LEGEND. This interview has me grown on this LEGEND. Like I stated before in a previous video, that man facial expressions use to make me feel a negative way 😂😂😂, but I always noticed in Pumping Iron and the mags he had a very STRONG camaraderie with his gym buddies (white, asian, or black). He seemed to me that he's very cognizant of who crosses his personal space but once he lets you in, he'd go to war with you. Great podcast, Carlos, you're a bad MOFO lol.
a great question with a great answer. Can't wait to see the next video were you interview Arnold.
I think the explanation is pretty simple.
1. Changes in gear usage
2. Better training (relying mkore on cables and machines which provide tension through the whole movement and a better contraction compared to free weights)
3. Simply more emphasis on delt training, with many people having a specific shoulder day or at least focusing heavily on the delts
No. It’s no 3. Shoulders r a small body part that get hit on many other exercises so they trained them hard but kept them aesthetic. It was not given its own day as u correctly stated. It was usually trained b4 legs sedated press, side laterals , bent over laterals 3-5 sets each. This served to warm up the delts for squatting as delts take massive load during the barbell squat. A lot of people don’t realize that. U can tear or injure your shoulder performing a heavy squat. Ask a power lifter. The anabolic’s were of a superior standard and use was heavy but nothing like today. It was available over the counter at the pharmacy not ug. Intelligent use of anabolic’s , training , diet and an eye for aesthetics was key. This is y classic physique has become so popular. The super man v taper is appealing to the average person. The overdeveloped mass monsters is aesthetically grotesque.
@@bhu3050 The delts are far the biggest muscle in the upper body in terms of total volume. Not a small muscle at all. Also inteligent use of anobolics? The way we understand gear use is massively different today and far superior.
@@charlotte3201 No. and if u don’t even know that delts r a small muscle group that is overworked by it’s very nature and that all anabolic’s were well understood and legally available over the counter at the pharmacy being of a much higher potency then u have no clue. Reg Parks was my fathers training partner. I know a little bit about it.
@@bhu3050 muscle imaging studies show clearly the delts are the biggest upper body muscle group, and by a wide margin. Also the potency of the anobolics they used is irrelevent. The knowlege and compound selection we have today massively outweighs what they had in the 70's
@@charlotte3201 delts r a small muscle group so no amt of bs’ng can change that. The fact that u don’t know this shows u have zero clue and very little actual experience. Look it up. Small muscle group. Overworked muscle group. That’s y most people have shoulder issues. Anabolic’s have remained relatively unchanged , usage has increased and knowledge have declined as is indicated by the loss of aesthetics. Bodybuilding like powerlifting , motor bike racing and just about every sport and endeavor has in the last few decades lost its way. I told u it was no 3 of wht u said and gave u the reasons. Arguing with a state and national champion and current ifp and iffbb international judge who owned one of they top competitive gymnasiums of the era that had all the top names come thru on the circuit from Pearl to Arnold , Zane , Draper , Platz , Kazmaier and countless others and is still training top athletes today is asinine. Go to our mirror and look at your body and if your shoulders r a large muscle group get over to a university hospital and they can sturdy u as a new species because you’re unlike every human in or has ever been in existence.
Love your videos
Your the man
Look forward to every single video
Always honest always entertaining
Love you your the bomb
I Don’t think Their Delts we’re Small per Se,in fact On Proportion with other parts,I think the Delts on Modern Bodybuilders are actually too Big
I'm older and from that golden era and everyone wanted the biggest delts possible, even back then. There are 2 main reasons bodybuilders have bigger delts today....
1) There is a bigger gene pool as millions more people are bodybuilding today than back then and so there are more people with superior genetics rising to the top of the sport.
2) More drugs of course. I am on TRT now but my current dose is equal to what many bodybuilders were taking as a steroid cycle back in the 1960s and 1970s. Pro bodybuilders today are taking mega-doses of steroids in quantities that were unheard of back then. And don't forget that pro bodybuilders today are also known to inject synthol into the delts which is much more common in the top ranks than most people realize.
Arnold once explained easily why, he said so the arms looked bigger
Well done, Sir!
Most people are not aware of the usage of sight enhancement
The person who ushered in the era of massive deltoids is none other than Kevin Levrone. Before Kevin in 1991, everyone had underdeveloped deltoids, then he came with them and from then henceforth, big delts became the norm. Even the previous Mr. O, Lee Haney, had small delts.
A perfect example of a similar situation is Tom Platz. Before him, bodybuilders had underdeveloped legs, he brought in the biggest legs and set the precedent.
Another precedent/ example is shredded glutes, Rich Gaspari being the very first man to display them. Before him, they all covered up their bums and had soggy underdeveloped glutes.
No way. Long before Levrone, there was Gary Strydom. He brought in the larger shoulder look and to this day arguably had the best delts ever.
@@tommypizzo1677
Gary Strydom can’t compete with anyone in the 90s and over when it comes to delts much less Kevin Levrone. Stop being a fanboy.
@kikuyukiiru5666 tell me you're too young to even know who Gary Strydom is without telling me. I mean after all, Strydom is from the 90s. So what you said makes no sense. Plus he is known for his delts the way Tom Platz is known for his thighs. You make no sense man.
@@tommypizzo1677
He didn’t even place in the 90s anyway. He’s not comparable to Paul Dillet much less Kevin Levrone. Stop fanboying.
@@kiuk_kiks he didn't place in the 90s? 🤣 Are you daft? You further show your lack of knowledge and ignorance there. I guess that's Bliss for some people 🤣 And honestly I was a bigger fan of Levrone and Dillett than I ever was Strydom. And I trained with Gaspari once in the early 90s. So again, no sense. But you don't know me and you definitely don't know what you're talking about, So there's that...
The Bodybuilder of the old classic days They were the best. Back in the old days of bodybuilding They look good. They look like they were in shape. Today They are massive huge in size. Way too big. They look like freaks on stage. It's not the same. Sad It's all gone. Again the bodybuilding era in the 40s,50s 60s and 70s was the best. I You. We will never Ever see that again.
The chest/delt tie-in looks great
I read somewhere, seemed to be a legit source at that time, IDK, but I read that Tren had an affinity to bind to the androgen receptors in the deltoids more than anywhere else in the body. I remember in the late 80's guys talking in the gym about melting down these "cow pellets" and it was apparently the first kind of Tren being used at that time. That was1988-1989. I had a buddy taking it. He would melt it down using a bunsen burner and some lab supplies he stole from a college lab. He said "it's just basic chemistry and free-basing basically" lol. He had big jacked delts too.
@@Stanly-Stud Yo momma love me
It isnt the general delt size, that is ok in relation with total size, it is the posterior delt size, that was relative small. And the photo in the miniature appears confirms this, because the chosen pose of the photo allows to see well this lack of size compared with triceps. Nowadays rounded posterior delts are common, but not so common 4 or more decades ago.
Arnold's rear double bicep shows perfect balance between the arms, shoulders and back. It was about being as symmetric as possible.
Let's not forget the role of site enhancement oil. It's not just the "oil bags" that use it, they just overuse it. (I'm not totally sure when site enhancement oil became a thing, maybe the guys in the golden era used it, too, I dunno)
You have forgotten the fact that there are now more cable exercises and machines used to the train the delts to put maximum tension on the muscle. Remember time under tension is important. If it was all about the androgen receptor density then today’s bodybuilder would have similar leg size as androgen receptor density is lower in the legs than shoulders, traps etc.
The androgenic effects of PEDS target the traps and delts more than any other body part, so with newer compounds and higher doseages you are bound to have freakishly large delts and traps compared to golden era guys, who generally had less potent compounds
I always thought Arnold's Delts were slightly lacking.. The thickness in his chest and arms were overpowering his delts.. The size of his chest and arms made his delts look smothered in behind the rest of the muscles, this was really apparent early in his career when he was just all pecs and biceps .. If you look at Arnold's physique in 1980 his delts actually tend to look more pronounced, maybe because his chest and arms had thinned out some..
Smaller delt to means more spotlight to the arm. Look at Bill Pearl for instance.
Delts or no delts, the golden era of BB simply was the best..
These days the competitors site-inject all 3 heads of their delts, PLUS also inject SYNTHOL (Site Enhancement Oil). I know a competitor here in Surrey B.C. who is only 190lb but has HUGE shoulders because of what I just described.
I think the answer lies in a combination between PEDs and training. Although old school bodybuilders trained hard, if you watch golden era training videos, they don't really emphasize the negatives. During that era bodybuilders lifted heavy and hard, but unfortunately that doesn't always work. This we have only come to discover in the last 20-25 years maybe. I dunno when the paradigm shift occurred but I think it happened in the 90s.
However, the widespread use of HGH and other peptides inherently increases the amount of muscle cells in certain areas of the body that would not typically have as many actual muscle cells. HGH helps a lot in rounding out one's physique because prolonged use will actually help you develop new tissue that you weren't initially genetically inclined to have.
With that said, I don't think golden era bodybuilders had bad deltoids. I guess they were a bit undersized compared to their chests, but they were in parity with their legs in many cases. I think if there's any conclusion we can draw, it's that golden era training - heavy weight and relatively quick negatives - is conducive to arm, chest and back development. The legs require a lot of mind-muscle connection to develop in size, which is why you also see many people with small quads squatting a lot of weight. It's no less impressive to be strong AF with smaller muscles IMO, but if you want the modern day bodybuilder look, you pretty much need to apply a science to your training and your diet. Recent Nick Walker, Ben Pokolski and Milos Sarcev training clips are a good example of this.
great vid, and i liked the analysis at the end
Also their waists and many other areas have grown considerably, and the different drugs must definitely be the reason for this. Nowadays, the arms of bodybuilders often look smaller in relation to the rest of the body than before, because other areas have grown disproportionately compared to the arms.. In my opinion, bodybuilders look much healthier and better in bronze, silver and golden era. Ken Waller has already reached 80 years of age and Schwarzenegger is 76 and in good shape. If todays modern pro-bodybuilder reaching 50 years of age, it is an achievement.
Not only because of stuff of the modern guys use but today they focus much more on delts than in the 70´s (obsessed on biceps and chest), the 80´s guys have a better delts and a better proportion than the 70´s guys.
I think golden era guys actually cycled off for at least 30-60 days or more. Where as today or last 20 years, it’s blast and cruise all year on a large stack not just cruising on test or primo
Nope. The guys nowadays have delt specific day, make use of more cables and machines- this is why Larry Scott came up with the Scott press and Arnold turned it into his own. The reasons for those invented movements is to hit the side side with a pressing compound movements. They also used lower reps not much over 10-12 reps.. instead of 4 sets of 10-20 reps they did things like 6 sets of 6 reps… not great for slow twitch fibers in delts
the picture at 47 seconds in is jaw-dropping.
tExcellent video as always. Thank you!
As a former natural bodybuilder, I would say the biggest inspiration for people I have known as been Frank Zane. I find it interesting that people think that Swartsneg is somewhat of a Golden Boy. In my humble opinion, aesthetically he looks like a bloated troglodyte.
When i started training in a gym after training from home everyone said i had big shoulders but i never trained shoulders as i never had the equipment at home or knew many exercises for them and as i got bigger from training in the gym my shoulders was the main thing everyone talked about i didnt know why because is still didnt train them much.
I know roelly winklaar was told by his trainer to stop training shoulders when he became a pro as his was out of proportion too.
Love your videos and your channel, thank you for doing what you do :)
This was very interesting as always
I never realized that was the difference, ya the old guys like Arnold with the smaller delts looked way better, I think a lot of modern guys would benifit from smaller delts
They were in perfect proportion to the rest of their physique.
Today's bodybuilders have overdeveloped deltoids.
It's the aesthetics of that time; each person had a unique look. It's not seen today due to the 90s when every magazine stated 10 ways to build Mass!
Lee Haney, in my opinion, was the last of the bodybuilders.
They look way better than the oversized out of proportion delts these days.
Another thing you’ll notice is no striations in the Delts of modern bodybuilders. From the injections of course. Injections should stay in the hips where they’re covered by the trunks, in my opinion.
Not all of the guys from then had "small delts". Larry Scott had cannonballs, and Don Howorth was impressive on them as well. I would like to see a comparison of abs- look at Zabo, Pierre Van Den Steen, Harold Zinkin, Ron Teufel, and compare them to today's competitors.
Another interesting video, I'm wondering not only the 'gear' they are using now but do you think that 'site injection oils' ie synthol have anything to do with that look the shoulders have now with modern day bodybuilders ?
100%. The photos of Big Ramy and Winklaar had oil for days.
Ryan Humiston's vid "This 100% gets you Wider" may explain this.
It’s crazy to think golden era bodybuilders didn’t train delts as hard 🤷🏻♂️ it’s pretty obvious that the guys today take way way more gear and ontop of that other stuff like growth and insulin. The shoulders respond hugely just to steroids anyway. The thing about today is that there is less natural talent, it’s mostly how much shit they are taking. No one has arms as good as Arnold imo even now.
Imagine Serge Oliver on growth ffs but the main problem today is that the remit is to get everything as big as possible with no thought to symmetry or balance, they look like they have been blown up, they are so swelled they lack the separation and granite like cuts of the 70’s and 80’s some of those guts looked like they were carved from stone.
Delts are also the number one target for site enhancement products like synthol. Even in my local gym, you couldn’t miss the endless “bee stings” in the shoulders on the stupid kids there.
It was all about the v-taper in the golden era. I'm sure they put as much effort into delts then as they do now. I believe Waller is correct. It's the gear and the synthol. And they are worse off for it aesthetically. The golden era guys had a better flow to their upper bodies. Not having bowling balls hanging off their shoulders probably helped with that.
Small? I would not say they were small; however, the deltoid is a more stubborn muscle than arms and chest. Today's much heavier steroid usage is the primary reason the deltoids are much larger. Waller is correct. You'll notice in many photo comparisons between Arnold and todays pros, Arnold's pecs are usually larger. In the Golden Era, most people used heavy weight/low reps, which works great for the high twitch fibers in the pecs, but shoulders are stimulated better with 12-15 reps. People would often increase the reps shortly before a contest, but this was not enough light training for the shoulders. On top of that, the lower calorie pre contest diets probably did not provide enough calories to build shoulders anyway.
Androgen receptors are most dense in the torso including the delt.
yeah, bigger is not always better. As a matter fact, in most cases, when it comes to aesthetics bigger, is a very subjective thing. With the use of modern drugs, bodybuilders are able to train their proportions to inhuman levels. Aside from being unhealthy, it also creates an unrealistic/unachievable physique.
Plus, there is a lot of synthol being used today, and often injected into the shoulders too.
just look at natural bodybuilders, and see which part in most cases looks underdeveloped. People always tell me you need to train delts more, when in fact I am concentrating most on deltoids
This is proof that the androgens that golden era guys took was way lower then nowadays. Plus the gh nowadays makes delts 3d and blow up. Give me a physique like back then over now, anyday
Small delts is a major reason why they loked so good.
Substances are likely a huge component. But curious if training approach has some role. Maybe they focus more on heavy raises nowadays. Whereas it sounds like in the 70s they were more about making the muscles “burn”
All about receptor sensitivity for androgens being abused since the Yates Era. Delts, Traps, Legs
The golden era arms were just that more massive which is very aesthetic.
I noticed the modern-day mass monsters seem to lose more mass after they retire from the sport more so than golden Era body builders. More symmetry with the golden Era body builders . Lee Hanny seems to me the last of the golden Era body builders.
I just want to build my physique to look like a golden era physique but I can’t figure it out really
Seems like they focused a lot more on front delts than bodybuilders do now. You always see them doing so much pressing and front raises. I think now much more people focus on lateral raises and rear delts than in the past.
The shoulders get overstimulated with all the different arm movements, so on gear, they are quick to explode. It is practically a hallmark of identifying someone on gear is to see such pronounced shoulders.
I think the Chest Size/width/Flare was much superior in the Golden age...harder Chest work perhaps
It's interesting to do studies on what exactly causes massive deltoids. I am assuming there is some extra stuff they are doing. Like substances.
The answer is easy - SEO. They ALL use it. That's why back in the 70's, the only guys with huge shoulders were the rare genetic outliers like Pete Grymkowski. And yet, nowadays, almost every pro, even low tier pros, have bigger delts than even the top guys in the 70's. SEO, and that's also why these guys may have huge delts, but they don't have the crisp detail/definition in the delts. Bigger delts started in the 90's, but they started with esiclene. Then SEO came around. Flex Wheeler said in a recent interview on Dennis James podcast that Levrone did NOT have big delts from gear and lifting - that it was all esiclene. He said Levrone bought up the whole market of esiclene, so that it was hard to find haha.
Simple reason. Golden Era Bodybuilders favored aesthetic proportions and not just building every muscle to as large as possible. Symmetry was just as important as size. The obsession wasn't pure size which leads to abuse of drugs and work out techniques that cripple you into your old age. Arnold was the greatest ever and he's alive and well into his late 70's. Ronnie Coleman was great for his time but by Coleman's prime aesthetics and symmetry were not as important and he trained for sheer size using various drugs and crazy weights. Coleman is not even 60 and he can't walk without assistance due to all the damage to his body during his training years.
It’s probably because we have a lot of receptors in our shoulder and if you use shoulders for injections. They obviously are going to blow up
In the 70's they went for the "V" shape. I never wanted the "V" shape ( that much). I didn't want a small waistline because I wanted to do powerlifting too.
I had massive delts and arms through genetics from my father that never lifted. I had small calves but massive thighs with very hard work on my calves.
Dudes, the different eras (from golden onward) have everything to do with the drugs. I think Dorian Yates was the one to start with growth hormone for example, which was a pivotal moment. I don't even know what they use today but it's alot more than Dorian !!
Well they didnt use Synthol back then. Thats probably the main reason why they had "small" deltoids.
Easy, because their delts were not filled with synthol to a point that they are ready to spill at any time as it happens nowadays......
Nothing to do with the gear. Nothing is about genetics proper technique. Doing the exercises properly.
Interesting topic
I was thinking about this just the other day, was wondering about the difference in shoulders then to now , with today’s looking so round and freaky, was wondering are the putting stuff in there?
I used to believe the same about Golden Era bodybuilders. But now I am wondering if Arnold isn't the best example for this, his arms and chest are still insane by today's standards, so I could see his shoulders being overshadowed easily by this. If you look at Ferrigno or Nubret, I would say their shoulders aren't nearly as overshadowed while having physiques that flow nicely
They fail to mention bodybuilders like Big Ramy are injecting oil in the side delts to achieve that huge round full Boulder shoulders
You forgot the mention serge nubret he had the best and biggest traps and delts in his time i think
GOLDEN ERA...as I'm sure you're aware, the delts and traps are particularly likely to contain a great number of androgen receptors, which make them more responsive to testosterone and related drugs therefore to the greater quantities of anabolic drugs being used since the end of the Golden Era.
Also, as Waller mentions, genetic potential is fundamental. The far greater number of guys in bodybuilding now compared to the number during the Golden Era makes it statistically more likely that some of them have better shoulder genetics than even most of the Golden Era champions did.
Together, the modern drug use and today's even-more-genetically-gifted-elites probably explains the difference in delt mass.
As far as the question of any trend among Golden Eras to deliberately limit their delt size...what also refutes that is the fact that plenty of 1960s/1970s/early1980s magazine and booklet training advice and specialization programs regularly encouraged the developing of (to repeat the terms they used) "cannonball" and "coconut" sized delts. As a 67-year-old who began training at age 15 in 1971, I read dozens of those articles and booklets which promoted building as massive of delts as possible but never read one syllable which advised limiting delt mass.
Thanks, that's exactly what I said in this video
The goal was different. Now the expected mass is way over emphasized. So yes the gear makes a difference but it's also what they saw as ideal. Arnold analogy to sculptor vs just get bigger philosophy.
that guy has a very good point about steroids, steroids have the biggest impact on traps and shoulders compared to everything else
Awesome great great great video… noticed this too