Tracking & Drifting - Long Term Scion FR-S - Everyday Driver
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- Опубліковано 23 вер 2015
- Before we begin making changes, we wanted to push our our Stock FR-S to its edges on a track and skidpad.
First the guys participate in an open lapping day with our local NASA club. They do better than anyone expected.
Then we get sideways and compare tires with help from our friends at SimpleTire.com.
For EverydayDriver specific offers, visit:
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Long Term Part 1: Introducing our FRS
• 2013 Scion FR-S - Long...
Part 2: Tracking and Drifting
• Tracking & Drifting - ...
Part 3: RWD in Snowstorm
• RWD in a Snowstorm - A...
Part 4: Tuning 1 - Header & Exhaust
• Searching for Torque -...
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86 is a great learning tool, makes one a better driver- Bunta Fujiwara.
It's funny how it applies to the GT86 as well.
do you happened to know what kind of wheel are those new ones they put on at end of video? thank you!
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@Swisher Locobar ever heard of Fujiwara's tofu shop?
@Swisher Locobar from initial d anime
NANI!?!?!
this actually really interesting , how a 200hp frs is passing all these cars with all the right technique
why do people talk only about HP? instead it should be all about weight/HP & weight/torque ratios...the 86 twins are indeed low on torque but the HP to weight ratio is respectable. as long as you stay above 5 K RPMs around the corners very few cars at any price point can beat you in the turns which is where all the passing occurred in this video..not to mention +EverydayDriver had the only momentum car here.
Because the other cars are letting him. Next question why are they letting him. You have to realize these guys don't have to worry about crashing it or running it as hard as they can.
The other people are driving their own cars which are most likely daily drivers. At the track not everybody is pushing their cars to the limit as they need to use it everyday and they might be having some fun but not be on the absolute edge at all times. Also all these guys do is drive cars day in and day out where as the dentist this is probably his hobby and not his career. Add all those things together and the BRZ is NOT faster than those other cars. If the 2 hosts went head to head in say an STI vs the BRZ the STI would win handily. I kinda hate how they are saying they are smoking all these cars as the other ppl out there are obv just taking it fairly easy and waving them past meaning they are not trying very hard to stay ahead and trying to not spin their car off and damage it.
Interesting you guys noted the balance shift due to the tires, especially with that "feels like we updated the sway bars" comment near the end. General rule of thumb is that a softer compound of tire (which the Michelin PSS definitely is over an all-season tire) will shift the balance of the car forward, providing stronger front end grip and easier to transition in and out of oversteer. If your car is already oversteer-ey this can mess up your balance, but there's almost no road cars that are "too oversteer-ey" from the factory so tires are always, always a fantastic performance upgrade.
If you want to go faster, have good tires, have strong brakes, and build your own skill sets. Only once you have reached the limits of those three things do you really need other modifications or a faster car. Track happy, friends!
This was such a fun day! Every time I get the chance to instruct in a stock or stock-ish BRZ or FRS, it reminds how very very good they are from the factory!
+zdr93523 Do you think the BRZ/FRS is better than the new Miata?
I have not driven the new Miata so I can't comment on that.
zdr93523 I think I'd go Miata. Mazda seems to have a great motor this time around, and I'm not a huge fan of the sound of the flat four. I think it's down to minor differences like that because they're both really cool.
My BRZ has an equal length header, so it does not have that Subaru sound that comes from a massively unequal (and inefficient) header design. Have you noticed that a Porsche does not sound like a Subaru?
I guess in a flat four it wouldn't come down to firing order, huh? That's cool, I'm glad there's a way to improve the aural appeal of the BRZ
Track driving can be incredibly satisfying with some decent instruction. I went out and drove Buttonwillow for the first time recently. After a few laps of guidance from my friend who has much more experience on that course, I was back out and all of a sudden passing cars that I shouldn't have been able to in a 140hp Miata. It's an almost indescribable experience being in a much less powerful car and running over the backs of S2000s, BMWs and WRXs.
Angel Christov I would still get an S2000.
tracking isn't cheap. even if the track fees are cheap, becareful as you get faster the more you wear on the car. you guys were starting to get faster and you'll realize that when you get to the limit of traction, the tires, brakes, everything burns through much much faster. i.e. a set of tires that last you 8 track days now will last you only 4 when you're faster.
but good job =)
Very true. WoW at Miller Motorsports Park is only $50 but it does take a toll on your tires and brakes.
+Chance Hales $50, that is a great deal. My local is $120 and the surface is crap.
+yitznewton It really is. The only down side is track days are only twice a month. WoW once and NASA once.
+JohnZChannel Running any car on the track gets to be expensive if you want to drive to the max. If you don't want to spend the money don't go to the track. Push to hard pass your skill level and you will wreck your car. Your insurance will not cover it. I usually wait till 100,000 miles to track my cars. I cant wait on the BRZ. I am trying to find a track that has cars for rent for the day. Subaru has no real events. That is what I love about JEEP and BMW. Plenty of events to go to were you can drive a car just like the one you own.
racing is expensive and dangerous. there's no way around that. the best thing we can do is not drive stupidly and accept the risks.
renting a track car is really hard, but if you're going to rent a car, you should rent a race car. there's a large difference in speed and safety that comes with a race car over a track car.
Bought a used 86 (2019 with 12,000 miles) just last week. Bone stock, and even better than my once beloved '87 Honda CRX.
Per the video, sounds like adding 100-150lbs of ballast on the passenger seat might keep the cornering more symmetric :-)
A simple video, but somehow one of your best in terms of flow, editing, camera angles, and delivery. My pops got an orange fr-s a couple years ago, second childhood at 65.
I’m never bored watching their reviews. I own a brz and love it
I have 95k on my FR-S. Stock except for tires. The first two sets of replacement tires were both Bridgestone Potenza RE11A's. I got about 20k miles off each set. Half of my daily round trip commute of 160 miles is on backroad twisties in KY. These tires made it feel like a slot car. I drifted like crazy in the old stock tires, but it was a bit more "scary" on these tires because I had to do it at higher speeds. I didn't drift as much.
Sadly, the tires were discontinued. The tire that replaced them actually understeered more for me, and only got 9k miles - Bridgestone RE71R's. I hated them. They also sounded like off road tires. I mean SERIOUSLY noisy howl.
I've got my fill of the drifting and now have Hankook all season's. It feels like a 57 buick now, related to the other tires, but I've gotten used to the poorer performance. At least I won't be replacing my tires every couple of months...
BTW, I LOVE driving this car. Every. Single. Day.
Hey man has it been reliable
Very.
I LOVE driving my 2017 toyota 86 every single day as well. Love the looks (gets so many compliments!), love the handling, but hate the poor quality display radio/back up camera unit.
How many miles now?
I bought a 2015 FRS and it's truly a fun ride. I really appreciate the insight and reviews of Everyday Driver...hope for more to come!
Great job, folks! This is a fun video that really shows off the FR-S in its element and the critical importance of using the right tire for sport driving.
Break, understeer, step on it. Tried on a slippery track today. Pure balance and joy. I cannot ask for more!
Love my Michelin PSS, glad you had a positive experience with them also.
Great jobs guys love the track footage
This was great. I would love to see you guys do more videos on vehicle dynamics, track/mod considerations, etc.
Brilliant video - looks great fun.
Excellent video! Informative and fun.
I took my FRS to the track this past weekend. It was a joy to drive. I fell in love with it all over again. Although I'm running Hankook RS3's on it.
juan cuara still have it?
At first I did not like the color of your FRS but after this video I love it! Greetings from Norway
I admire the hell out of the FRS! Excellent little car! I wished it handled better in the snow!
As an owner of a 2016 FR-S whose dealt with New York snow for the first time and made the FOOLISH mistake of keeping the shitty all-season tyres on, trust me, this thing NEEDS snow tires for the winter. Otherwise, it’s a fun car, easy to work on and wrench, and it really is the driver’s car that everyone says it is. For track usage, I’d definitely invest in an oil cooler of your choice (apparently the engines are prone to overheat in track settings, so getting an oil cooler will keep the temps in the optimal ranges). For my first real enthusiast car, I couldn’t be happier with my purchase 😊
I live in Utah and managed to make it home from work with the stock Prius tires, spun out a few times and shit my pants long story short winter tires
@@CZiP you are an unsung driving legend, sir. My grandfather used to ski in Utah and he always told me how bad the roads could get out there in the Midwest in general. Teach me your ways 👍
@@metallicaspiker16 Same here
Having driven an e36 m3 without snow tires some 20 years ago, I’d learned that ponying up the $ for proper snow tires make all the difference……more recently in both a 2013 and 2017 brz (current car), properly tired cars can handle snow just fine).
This little car.... is a beast.
Great video! Thanks
This was a wonderful overview video for tracking.
Glad you enjoyed. Thanks for watching!
Car goals (speaking as a college student)
+soonho96 I bought my BRZ freshmen year, money down… worked almost every night in highschool to afford it and now I'm an Engineering student so soon money will be flowing in for the mods >:)
Wow, great vid. Those rims look a lot better on the car than I would've thought. Also, I know what tires I'm getting for my FRS now.
Great video!
This looks like a lot of fun. A lot.
this was so fun to watch, wtf why cant i see more episodes lol
great video guys
You guys make me want to take my FRS and track it
That's the first thing I'm doing to my Ecoboost Mustang; wheels and tires. You can feel the sponge-like flex in the tires as you really load up the body on them during the turns, and I have loads of back roads to test them on.
I'd like to say I can't wait for more but of course I can and I will. Just the same, I look forward to what you do to this car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Looks so fun
Awesome work guys, now please do a 2016 Miata vs FRS review, I want to know what you think. New Miata vs old Miata would be interesting too
great vídeo, good Lucky with the car.
glad I bought this car :P
Still glad?
@@peytonponder8488 yea, actually sold my old BRZ and bought a 86GR. (the old gazoo racing one not the new one)
Just got mine today -im a happy customer.
Awesome first test. Thank you.......thank.....you.
I don't really comment on videos, but I just wanted to say I see your comments on pretty much every car related video on UA-cam! Awesome!
Todd, I think we have similar tastes in cars, and I think you're gonna love this car. Also, I dig that color-- if that orange had been available on the Subaru version, color would have been a much more difficult choice.
I really can't say enough good things about these cars. They're wonderful-- nice dynamics, characterful (if not powerful) engines, light weight, great-looking, and surprisingly practical. And if you do find yourself wanting more power down the road, they're dead-easy to supercharge. It's not hard at all to get even with an Elise in terms of power-to-weight. Have fun with it!
The GT86 twins are not as bad as people make them out to be.... I love mine!
I LOVE LOVE my car toyota 86 automatic---gets many compliments .
The only people who say these cars are bad are the ones who've never driven on a track in their lives and think 30mph rolls on the freeway are 'racing'.
@@MikeJones-in3uk you bought auto gt86 ? Is it great ? Thinking of buying one but still thinking either auto or manual
@@F4NCY_ I have the 2017 automatic Toyota 86 . One of my friend also drives an automatic 86 and it's a blast of PURE fun ! After one year I did changed out the stock tires to Yokahama Advan Neova AD 08R and it was awesomely grippy- loved it. Now, I have Michelin Pilot Sport 4 - very good tires.
@@F4NCY_ remember this is not a performance car meaning its not fast and furious. I did take this car to Deals Gap ( Tail of the dragon) last month ( still had the yokahama tires then) and also drove up to Clingmans Dome and believe me I had the time of my life !! The bends , the curves , the corners delivers much adrenaline rush. Not to mention it looks amazingly sexy as well. Many head turns from strangers.
It a good thing i might be getting one of these as my first car
Reminds me of chasing down Porsches and BMWs at LRP in my non-turbo FC RX-7. Nothing more satisfying than getting to pass much more powerful cars on a momentum course.
good video for sure. a little fun fact, a lot of the understeer factor came from the less grippy front tires. the sticky front tires help keep the car in the direction you want to go. rear tires will def play a factor but not nearly as much
0:33 someone drove from Boise to SLC for that track? That is dedication
Great video, I'm about to buy this same car even the same color
That really is impressive...seeing that little FRS passing all those other cars!
Because the other cars are letting him. Next question why are they letting him. You have to realize these guys don't have to worry about crashing it or running it as hard as they can.
The other people are driving their own cars which are most likely daily drivers. At the track not everybody is pushing their cars to the limit as they need to use it everyday and they might be having some fun but not be on the absolute edge at all times. Also all these guys do is drive cars day in and day out where as the dentist this is probably his hobby and not his career. Add all those things together and the BRZ is NOT faster than those other cars. If the 2 hosts went head to head in say an STI vs the BRZ the STI would win handily. I kinda hate how they are saying they are smoking all these cars as the other ppl out there are obv just taking it fairly easy and waving them past meaning they are not trying very hard to stay ahead and trying to not spin their car off and damage it.
fun. fun. fun. so envious. tire results are not surprising, which is good. it doesn't mean Toyota made a mistake, the Eco tires still a great choice in the streets while better tires suit the track.
I'm surprised a review on the 2nd gen mr2 hasn't popped up on here. It would be interesting and a blast to see a video on one.
I LOVE my BRZ. Need to get it out on the track and/or autocross. Also want to upgrade my tires. Currently running Michelin r16s. They are good for my daily commute but not confidence inspiring when it comes to spirited driving.
This car feels godly on a short undulating track, it is just so sharp and precise, while not feeling rough. The only problem is when you get to the straightaway and feel the limits of that engine and wish you had an extra 50-100 hp.
Been driving a 2013, standard, bone stock fr-s. Bought it with 75,000...never had so much fun behind the wheel...
i want the people who say that the 86 frs or brz is not a fast please watch this vlog and let that sink in ;)
I think I need to buy one of these. For just this purpose.
Very good video. Guys please keep supporting them by commenting liking etc :)
Need to do it in second gear. The Fr-s loves sliding in second gear haha
Very good info here! I just wish you stuck with the same size as stock for the Super Sport tires so that it would be a more direct comparison. The wider tread, taller sidewall, and lighter wheels could be what's making more of the difference. So I'm curious if the difference would be that pronounced with the exact same size between the PSAS3 and PSS.
Hi guys, will you be doing more upgrades, especially in terms of power?
Hey Paul and Todd, what's that Kumho tire model you talked about on podcasts that's fairly close to Pilot Super Sport for less money? Thanks!
everyone complaints about these cars being slow , but they forget this car is a spiritual successor to the ae86 also not a fast car.
I thought you guys would test the newer wheels on the track
I just want to know how many times he changed shirts during that track drive
Miller is your local track?? I was running the west course last weekend with NASA
You guys should add an HKS supercharger. It ramps up the hp and does not come with lag (unlike turbos)
3:13, "You cant tell me your cars not ready" IDK man, The suspension under my 71 Lemans paired with 14x6 inch wheels may beg to differ lmao. I do have bigger wheels ready for tires, which ima get in the summer, so i plan to start getting into this kinda stuff
S4 wagon with a roof rack on the track. That guy gets it
Try a bunch of different tires on the car and give some recommendations, please.
Looks like they just found out what Toyota, and Lotus already knew. It's not always about Horsepower ,when you are light weight with great handling. He keeps screaming for more power and he didn't even need it.
the new tires have the same size like the old tires?
I haven't tracked my FRS yet, but all I have done is stick PSS's on it (has an exhaust because stock is so quiet). I went from really liking my car to loving my car with the PSS's.
+David Moore What would you say is the biggest difference? Being able to push it harder or better balance? Did you replace wheels too or get stock size tires?
+Bristecom I have 17x8 with 225/40 PSS. The turn in is a ton better, I believe cuz the sidewalk on the stock tire is super duper weak. So turn in balance is way better, much less understeer. Mid corner seems to be about the same. The stock tires were ok balance wise mid corner you just have to tip toe your way in.
David Moore I see. Thank you!
Hello, what offset are your wheels ? Thank you.
So what wheels were those at the end ?
Great video !, Just bought a 2015 love it to death , the car just makes you smile every time you drive it. I also enjoy letting other people drive it to see their reaction. Looking forward to watching your upgrades . Myself I'm thinking tires then exhaust. I just put in a K&N drop in filter because I saw the horsepower increases weren't much higher with a full intake and they are a lot more expensive. Think I'll hold off on a supercharger till my warranty and payments are almost done! Just one question would those pilots fit on the stock rims or do you need to go wider ? Thanks
+Tom c Intake and exhaust upgrades don't typically do anything in terms of power unless you do them both together and tie them together by getting the car tuned. As for the tires, 225s on the 7" wide wheels will work but they will balloon the sidewall of the tire and the extra width won't do you any good because it will compromise the strength of the sidewall. You'll either want to get the same size tire as stock, which will still give you a good jump in grip or you'll need to invest in some wider wheels.
+Chance Hales On the BRZ FRS the stock intake sounds like crap and has a lot of restrictions. I spent $300 on a Tekada Cold air. Best money ever spent.....pugged the sound tube. Sounds awesome. Better low end torque can lug the car down to 1500 rpm vs 2000 stock. Fuel mileage went up. Can hold taller gears longer. Car feels more responsive and has more top end. Best $300 spent ever.
Also got a Borla cat back. Sucked out bottom end torque.......all that was gained by the cold air was lost. Not as much power as stock below 3000 rpm. 4000 rpm and up more power than stock. Buy 4600 rpm. It is on. feels like about 10 wheel hp. The car pulls harder for the red line than stock. That is with no tune. It needs one. Around town it feels SLOWER than stock. Defiantly more power above 4000 rpm the dip is decreased. I lost about 13 pounds to boot. Tekada lighter than stock. Borla much lighter than stock.
Just my experience. Never believed in cold air till this experience.
you can easily run 225/45-17 on the 7 1/2 " rims and expect fine performance out of the tires with no issues.
the stock rim is 17 x 7 , i believe.
the 2017 with performance package has 7.5 inch rims
Nice commercial, You have to be pretty a really good driver to get the best out of it, like any other underpowered coupe. Don't get me wrong this car is awesome, good aftermarket, amazing safety record, great sound system, nice control, fuel efficiency. It's a middle class ferrari
I felt the same way after I threw super sports on my BRZ haha
I consider slippery tires one of the features of the non-boosted 86. Have you considered searching for tires that are as slippery as stock, but more predictable on the edge of the grip, as MPSS?
After some more thoughts: If the goal was to maximize fun during weekend driving, would you rather have summer 215 tires or all season 245s? I suspect all season 245s will be more fun as they have less grip but bigger contact patch for smoother handling near the limit. Has anyone tried anything like that?
This is the type of video to make you realise what FRS/GT86/BRZ owners are shouting about and why the AE86 was made so popular by Initial D.
My local track is Spa-Francorchamps, its super expensive weekend track days....
+Sentoo .Production you better start saving
My local Track is The nurburgring
Those BMW drivers are just like the ones I see on the roads. Goes to show the kind of people buys them just for the name.
if those people got 86, they will just go slower
Where is this track?
Sportier tyres will have stiffer sidewalls which surely translate into more controllable & predictable slides.
Wait a minute. You guys review performance cars and need tips on performance driving at a track??? Great video as usual guys. I know you had fun.
+Gary G - We really wanted to show the experience that anyone can have when they attend an event like this. These WOW+ events at Miller require a NASA experienced driver to ride in the right seat. For us that was a bonus - as no matter how much track time we get, we always welcome driving line recommendations and instruction. There's always places to improve and we truly believe it would help anyone. Glad you enjoyed this film and thanks for watching and commenting!
great video- keep up the good work guys!! what kind of wheel are those the new ones you put on at end of video? thank you!
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Everyone needs tips. It’s the one thing you can count on in this world.
What all season tires were you guys running was it the Pilot Sport A/S'3? That is what was on my car when I picked it up and they seem to last a while as I'm still on them. I'm looking forward to replacing them with some super sports.
It looks like a lot of fun was had at the track. How well did the stock brake pads hold up?
+aszrael1266 Pilot Sport A/S 3's are newer tire tech than the Super Sports. I actually recommend them over the Super Sports as they have 99% of the grip, are much better in the wet, and last way longer. I use them as my street/rain track tires. For the brakes, fluid is much more important than the pads. Switching to Torque RT700 or Castrol SRF will ensure that track days are fun and successful. What most people think is brake pad fade is actually the fluid boiling and losing all of its properties.
+zdr93523
I use DOT 4 brake fluid with my car I have yet to experince any brake fade when going out to some of my favorite roads. I have not had a chance to take my car to a road coarse yet only drag strip. I'm happy with how long the A/S'3 are lasting. When they are warm they are barely keeping traction when I roll on to WOT in 2nd. Granted I am in a stock 2nd gen CTS-V. I've heard most the people prefer the super sports due to their better grip. I'll have to look into the super sports vs A/S'3 more closely.
aszrael1266 Standard DOT 4 fluid is fine for the street. Put that car on a road course though and you will quickly find it inadequate. I think that people prefer the PSS because it is a common name and they've been around longer, but that also means they are older. Research some tests on the two, I think you'll be surprised.
LOL you can't compare A/S with summer compound tires dude. WTF are you talking about?
I sold mine. Kept leaking from the timing cover, two dealers and three re-seals later i gave up. I hope you guys have better luck
+Jack Holmes That same thing happened to mine recently O.o I really hope it doesn't persist!!!
its a design flaw, there isn't a true gasket being used... so sadly it will
Does this car have a shotgun seats?
lol what was that M6 driving doing on the track???
any one know what kind of wheel are those new ones they put on at end of video? thank you!
Enkei PF-01s. Thanks for watching!
EverydayDriver thank you so much for replying. One more question in regards about the wheels , I happened to love the oem wheels. If I just upgrade to stickier tires and upgrade the size to 225 the one you mentioned (Michelin pilot super sport ) without changing the rims will I feel more grip around the corners and a little less tail happy ? Thank you .
Wait but was it Tuesday?
7:21 After years of shitting on the FRS, Paul passes an M6 on track
So Michelin Pilot Supersports are definitely the best tires to get?
+misamisatv Bridgestone RE-71 for track work. Will wear out pretty quick as a daily tire
+smcombs100 Thanks for the info! What's a good daily tire to get with occasional track duty?
+misamisatv Hankook RS3 are perfect for that. I'm on my 2nd set. It lasts quite a long time for a super grippy tires. They are pretty affordable as well.
+misamisatv As mentioned by Jinshin85, the Hankook's are decent tires. I'm using RE-11A's for a daily/track tire. Also Dunlop makes a good tire but the name escapes me
@jinshin85 Definitely love the Hankook RS3's! They were recommended by JinkShin85! Thanks man!
- Jaycee
@2:45 This is an FR-S passing a (newbie half-ass driver in an) STI.
FR-S with a twin screw supercharger would be excellent
it's weird how expensive track tires have more slide and don't last as long as the all season types. maybe because the tread is less rugged and the rubber is softer. I am driving an frs now and would love to have tires that grip for faster lap times
I'm really considering the 2016 frs in blue.
that would be cool. it could be a subie killer
I am somewhat content with what I bought now :)
Hey guys, what wheels are those that they chose to put on the fr-s? thanks!
+Peaches yeah are they lighter than the wheels previously on the car?
if so, then it's not just about tires, but also wheels.
+Peaches They are Enkei wheels… ugh the name is escaping meee. I will check… Okay: I believe they are Enkei PF01's… they would be lighter than the stock wheel but with the extra half inch of both tire and wheel they actually probably hit about even with the original weight: just with a little wider tread :)
+Peaches Oh and someone (really it's not me) is selling something like them in black on the ft86club forums right now, in the same size they used here actually. I think the ones on the forums might be Enkei M52's though: they look VERY similar to the PF01's and these in the video could honestly be either.
+Peaches Man I feel like a dumbass for posting three times but I figured it out finally. The ones in the video ARE PF01's and the very similar one's for sale are M52's. The PF01 looks like an M52 with the ends of the spokes inset instead of meeting the rim (flush). The PF01's are racing line and the M52's are performance line.
I don't have this car but I love my enkeis
It's making want to go to a track.
I know people don't know the track so they've got to learn it, but that M6 & M3 really at least give it some gas
he is faster in the corners? NANI?!?? eurobeat plays 😂😂😂
Like Everyday Driver I changed out the stock tires on my FR-S manual to same size Michelin Pilot Sport all season radials. Vastly improved the cornering, greatly reduced drifting, it just sticks. But this car is not for everybody, I realize that. With more power it would be a real beast, but the added weight would conceivably screw up the fine balance of the FR-S and require suspension mods which cost money.
still like your michelin pilot sport?
turbo does not add some much weight to make noticable difference afaik ;
Camber bolts, oil cooler, ceramic coated headers, tune. That's about $1500 and will transform the car.
I really want to learn how to drift and race. For under £12,000 I can get a used GT86, Nissan 370z with about 30,000 - 50,000 miles. I could also spend a bit more and get an old 987 Cayman S or spend a bit more and get a Gen 2 Cayman / S. What do you think I should do? If I did get the GT86 I think i'd want to turbo it adding £4-5k onto the price whereas the Nissan has bucketloads of power for me. The cayman could be really expensive for maintainance and repairs although looks wise I really love it. I have also toyed with getting a 981 cayman but this would require another 2 years of saving or some serious finance. This wouldn't be the S model so may feel underpowered compared to a GT86 turbo or a 370z and would cost an absolute fortune if anything went wrong. Looks wise, it's my dream car though. It may be a bit bulky compared to the 987 and other two models i mentioned. I'm quite new to cars and have test driven quite a few over the last 6 months to try and gauge what I like. I'm searching for a stunning car with racing and drifting performance to match.