How Avoidant People Create Relationship Collapse
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- Опубліковано 14 тра 2024
- While it is ideal that relationships would result in mutual regard and meaningful connections, avoidant people are committed to patterns that cause relationships to collapse. (BTW, this is not the same as keeping your distance as a matter of legitimate self-preservation.). Dr. Les Carter describes how avoidant people operate and how you can save yourself from undue heartache as you come to terms with their manipulations.
Dr. Les Carter is a semi-retired psychotherapist who spent 41 years in private practice in the Dallas, Tx. metroplex. He now resides in Waco, Tx. He has conducted over 65,000 counseling sessions, written extensively, and has presented many workshops and seminars.
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"I will be in a relationship with you as long as you don't have any expectations of me" wow, this summarised 3 years of my life!
My White life
You talking is pressure.
5 for me... and then another year and a half with a different man. Then 5 months with another, but I'm so thankful for therapy. I can now recognize and pull myself out of relationships like that. They can be so traumatizing and detrimental to your mental well being.
What a truth!!!!!!!
Lol that’s my ideal, unassuming people, obviously i do expect fidelity, transparency and be sorta present (eg. Reply texts within 24h, kinda care) but people expecting more than that are a no for me :| i dont like being clinged to
There are empathic people who are avoidant too. Nobody was there to listen to their feelings when growing up in narcissistic home..So they just keep their insides locked and don’t feel comfortable sharing their feelings. But are really helpful, kind thoughtful..always ready to listen to your feelings but never pry or use them against you.
Well as I understand what the video is talking about there's a control component - but even if control isn't being exerted on others, if the avoidant person is inflicting control on their own feelings then someone is being controlled.
I hear you. They can be the kindest people. Question is: how can they connect on a heartlevel if they never open up? Is that a thing?
This is true. But like Dr said in the video it can be worked with. It doesn't have to stay that way
Good points but any relationship, from friends to boss, needs two way, mutual communication or its not a deep, good, healthy relationship.
I wish I'd responded that way. As a scapegoat desperate for love, I developed a habit of over sharing. Working on that now.
When avoidant people act highly interested and pursue a relationship aggressively, it will throw you off. They appear highly committed when in “interested” mode. You don’t realize it’s a temporary and fleeting mode for them.
They can't fake for very long!
Stevie Crow:
That is exactly what my husband did with me. You are so right!
What I do not understand is how an avoidant can have a long string of short, failed relationships due to this, string you along for a decade until you finally confront him, run without giving any closure, and then marry someone a few yrs. later, stay with her for more than 30 yrs. and have two kids. Supposedly, they do not change much, and he was determined to find someone who would be loyal to him without getting any closeness in return. He kept getting women short term due to superficial charm, money and good looks. I can't even imagine what kind of woman puts up with living in an emotional dessert for the rest of her life?
@@joseenoel8093
I know. You're right. We will not be fooled.
@@meagiesmuse2334
Don't know. Too long to read sorry
I would say that avoidance is on a spectrum. I had a male friend who I had strong feelings for, and he did for me. Whenever we connected on a deeper level, he would suddenly look like a deer in the headlights, make excuses and leave.` This happened over and over. I could see that he really wanted things to go further but he would literally go into "fight or flight" mode. He is tortured by this. He is also a beautiful soul, honest, full of integrity and we have many mutual friends who respect him greatly. He is known for helping others out. Clearly in childhood his emotional needs were unmet and he cannot deal with any vulnerability. He is not selfish at all, and I kind of respect him for avoiding me because he has the wisdom to know that he cannot meet me where I need him to, and rather than string me along he has walked away. It's a real shame and I hope that he gets help as I can see that he so longs for connection but then cannot handle it.
❤ truth 🫶🏼
Avoidant people are afraid of commitment. And I do mean afraid. They run hot and cold all the time. It's scary how they can switch back and forth. You ask yourself, how can they do it?
I have come to the conclusion, at least from my life experience, if you are a faithful partner, friend, sibling with no expectations for your own needs and wants, things go smoothly.
But once you realize you are getting zero reciprocation, and your needs are not being met or even considered, and you try to have a conversation about it, they run for the hills.
Yes, you hit the nail on the head.
I've been in a relationship like this. Left because I didn't like the feeling. It was like I was a fixture in her dollhouse. Very unfulfilled. She couldn't help it. It was all she was. There was just. nothing. inside. to connect with.
It brings to mind a quote from the Buddha about this being a time when there is much in the window yet nothing in the room.
Yep!! Spot on!!
Head for the hills because it's your fault anyway!
@@TheBigdog868 great quote! thanks for that image.
It's stunning how quickly they can just drop you. No warning. You're getting along great and they really seem into you. Then suddenly they ghost you and they'll never tell you why. You can spend years ruminating about it because your brain will want to sort out the mystery so you can get some closure!
Exactly. I was thinking for awhile that my sister was a narcissist, but she very much falls into the avoidant type.
I'm amazed also that they can just forget about you at the drop of a hat. I essentially begged and tried to persuade & reason with my sister to reply to a concern I had...nothing. Wouldn't even give me her phone number. No closure, no empathy. Just stopped writing. It's taken a lot of self-reflection to try & understand just what the hell happened. And it's so confusing & frustrating because nothing obvious seemed to cause her to disappear.
I had an "A-ha!" moment when watching this video. It makes a lot more sense now.
Don't waste more of your precious life waiting for closure from the narcissistic; you'll never get it. Give yourself closure.
It’s been over three years for me, and I still ruminate daily.. God I’ve never known pain like this..
@@TheRealSlimshadyyyyyy Hope you're getting some relief.
@@vernita0216 Thank you for the kind words, but it’s gotten worse..
This spoke to me: "I will be in a relationship with you as long as you don't have any expectations of me." I felt this and I went through it.
They're so afraid of letting you down, of not being capable of giving you everything, of not being perfect for you.
this kind of avoidant induced relationship collapse can really really damage the mental health and self esteem of the other partner, especially if it takes them by surprise. You love this person and trust them completely; then all of the sudden they turn cold, and nothing you do to try to mend the mysterious rift that seems to be widening works at all. and then of course they blame it on you. i wish i had known more about attachment styles before my last serious relationship; I could have at least seen what was happening to us for what is was instead of internalizing it
EDIT: I believe I had misunderstood the term ‘avoidant’. I think what I was talking about here is more avoidant attachment style rather than the personality disorder. It doesn’t change the fact that the guy in the video has the wrong idea..
Correction: we, avoidant people, do desire connection and relationships. It’s often the biggest dream of ours that we feel we can’t achieve because we put the blame on OURSELVES. I think most of avoidant people feel like they are the problem more than the people they interact with. We feel like we’re not interesting, charismatic or good enough for the person we want to build a relationship with so we withdraw. We carry the shame of the relationships we’d destroyed
Agreed but honest once you open up then get destroyed again its just not worth it anymore. Once I open up a tiny but people bolt I don't even bother anymore.
Indeed it's always a matter of worth
We just believe that person deserves better than our broken self .
Well said.
If you know that’s what you’re doing then stop, otherwise you’re still selfishly making your avoidance and traumatized past priority over healing and building healthy relationships moving forward. That’s one thing you need to accept, excuses don’t fix the problem for anyone. Regardless of how well you can explain what’s going on find an equal capability to explain and implement a solution. Nobody can stop you from putting the perpetual blame on yourself that destroys everything you love and care about. Only you can do that for yourself
Sadly it becomes a self fulfilling propechy
6 years of being pushed away. Ended it all. It's been a year. I feel amazing! Feel sad for him every now and then, but I'm free!!!
I have 9 years. I am exhausted and I don’t know what to do. Stay or continue this nightmare
Are you saying that you enjoy nightmares? 🤔
I’m always glad to awaken from mine. I find them to be utterly exhausting…even though they’ve only lasted mere minutes. I’m always SO GLAD to be free of hellish dream states. 😰
I've been pushed away for 11! Can't believe I put up with this shit for so long. 11yrs of chasing someone who does not and simply cannot commit to true love, intimacy and depth.
23 years and I can't figure them out either. They can't spend the time to have love or a real relationship for what reason? Been with mine and even when he knows he's an avoidant he still refuses to give anything. No explanation, just loss and hopelessness is all he gives. I hope we all find a good way out of the pain.@@ThatOneScienceGuy
becoming a better person involves hard work and patience.
choosing who is allowed to know you deeply is a life’s work.
starting from zero over here 😌
XXOO
The major sign for me, they skip a question/some conversation without saying anything as if they never heard it or saw your message when you see this at the beginning just run. And they can’t say how they feel good of anything about you or from you unless you hurt them or made a mistake
Thank you so much for posting this, and helping me understand what I was dealing with. Attempting to act healthily towards an avoidant person when you don't know what you're dealing with can feel crazy-making. All your healthy, kind, logical relationship building tools are met with such unequal and odd behavior, it really leaves you questioning yourself. No matter how strong and assured you were in your self prior to getting closer to them. This insight has helped greatly. Thank you.
Yes if only I hadn't been so unreasonable and ask someone to text me back
@@meeraraj0 Similar situation I had when thinking I was being supportive towards a lady I thought just needed someone there to build her self esteem and one night called her for some advice on how to bake a particular pie as I had a memory block and boy did I cop the lashing out. That was a month ago and now I fully understand the pattern of avoidant patterns.
@@meeraraj0Yes, this is one of my nieces. It finally occurred to me that the only connection she allowed was when I could help her make dresses for school events, prom, etc. Since then I have become persona non grata. She won't even answer my happy birthday texts. I did get invited to her bridal shower (gift grab event, in this case.)
He gave the appearance that he wanted an emotionally healthy serious relationship for almost 3 months before his distancing strategies and behaviors really started to kick in. Ultimately, destroying what could've been a beautiful relationship; We could not discuss anything that went to deep, or any relationship snafoo that needed to be ironed out. If and when I did, he would then extend me the luxury of silent treatment and ghosting behaviors 🥴. I MEAN ANYTHING... Literally, the dude would run away!!! And just like you said, he tried to play victim, once I expressed how unhealthy these distancing behaviors were and finally decided to remove myself from the experience. I had mentioned my need/s and made bids for connection numerous times before this. WASTED my own time. Never again.
Props to you for only needing 3 months to see what was happening, and deciding to walk away! It took 5 years for me 🙃
Omg we are the same, ghosted after 4 months and after I wanted to express my needs in a healthy way but he swiftly made it about how I hurt him and when I asked him “this is a me vs you” argument, I knew where this was going.
I feel you so very much. Same thing happened to me. No matter what type of effective communication I had or how much time I gave him to think about it, he would just straight out leave me on seen. I tried my best to be understanding. He's dealing with serious problems. We could've made a nice future, he was interested, probably just very scared and it's understandable considering his avoidant traits. I hope he heals, tho!
Same thing happened to me. I would ask them on cute dates, they would talk to me online almost regularly but never with much depth. I would ask if they had abandonment issues. Everything was always about them. They would disappear then have a weekly excuse why they did. Wouldn't give me a phone number after five months of "dating". Finally I blocked them from all contact six days after one of their disappearing acts. I would rather be alone than being so devalued and made to feel like this person was checking out on me. I can't imagine how this personality type enjoys their life but it is no longer my problem and now I know to run from the first date if I am interacting with someone like this.
@@sage2181 I'm sorry you had to go through that. We all deserve someone who loves us. They're very secretive for some reason. I was also feeling unloved and insecure while I was dating him.
They also deserve love, and I hope they all learn not to limit their minds and think they can't do better. They desire being loved, then they just mistreat the love they get, because unconsciously, that's how they learned love is, sadly.
To all avoidants, do things that make you feel uncomfortable. Check in on your partners more. Give your partner the love they deserve. Express the love you want. Love isn't easy. Don't avoid the lows of love just because you don't feel comfortable feeling that way! I wish you all the best.
To the rest of non-avoidants, if you don't feel loved express yourself in a gentle but direct way, give them a chance or two. The third time, call it quits a move on... Someone who will fulfill your needs will come eventually, and remember you can do that yourselves.
Thank you for this. It's my dad. I've been asking my whole life why he doesn't want to have a good relationship with me. I am finally starting to let go of the feeling that it's my fault.
They prevent closeness by never opening up. Never is a good time to talk about things. Never is a good time to share and express feelings.
They are always busy making themselves busy, hurried, stressed.
They do not want to hear about your thoughts, feelings, memories. They do not want you to PRY into their thoughts, feelings, memories.
They are VOIDS. There is nothing in there but current drama and their stress.
There is no past, no future, only a present of SHUT UP, disconnect.
It is like they are all the same person. How can that be? It’s bizzaro world. 🤦♀️
I totally relate.
I wish they would have never leeched onto someone wanting a REAL EMOTIONAL CONNECTION. 👎🏼👎🏼
Okay, but if they are voids and nothing is there for you, then do they have anything you'd want them to share anyway?
@@Oceans780 - answers to questions are vague enough that they cannot be held to anything, a huge red flag.
It's where they are, for whatever reasons. "Don't let their injury define you." Wonderful. Thank you for being so kind AND so clear.
Yup 9yrs of this with someone nearly killed my spirit and soul. Absolutely crazy making passive aggressive, chronically ambivalent. Talked the talk but the actions never met the talk. Survived on crumbs.
So sorry! 20 years for me and still not out. It’s like being in prison with someone that has no conscience. Like I am invisible. 😢
I was not sophisticated enough at age 24 to recognize these characteristics for what they are. Too late, I married 'air'; he is married to himself.
Me too, I used to say pre-narc-knowledge that we both loved him so much that we both married him. I hope you find peace and can keep time for yourself!
I was 24, very inexperienced, naive, and taught spiritually to ‘believe the best’. My parents weren’t abusive but I felt kinda invisible and struggled with depression, anxiety, low esteem, and suicidal thoughts a few times. I was a sitting duck for a someone who dazzle me with attention then go cold 🥶 after we married.
@pasture green A lot of brokenness out there and it's going to be worse for the next generation.
@@Star-dj1kw I can relate.
"I married air." -Geeeeeeesh.
Anything that causes my relationships to collapse is always a good thing in the end. All of the best times in my life have been when I was single. I'm allergic to drama. I would rather be free.
🙂👍🤳
Interesting comment, I think it means you are happy with you, and you are not afraid to take responsibility for giving yourself good and happy times. Hopefully there are others around you who respect that, and you never know, future relationships with an unselfish person who understands and respects 'mutual freedom'
I love your comment 'I'm allergic to drama'. Me too. I think it means we've grown
Allergic to drama. I like that
This also applies to friendships, not just romantic relationships.
Wish I had learned this 50 years ago. Better late than never.
I like your down to earth attitude Chinook valley. We can't change what's gone but we can take control of the here and now.
50 for me also. Wow.
I dealt with an avoidant type and he wasted two years of my life. Finally, I spent my birthday alone and lonely and realized I'd had a major medical scare and he wasn't available for it (ghosting punishment) and when I'd told him about it he'd accused me of not contacting him, blaming him for my mistake, and acting crazy and blaming him topping it off by telling me he'd been having trouble securing a promotion and I was selfish even more for not supporting him through it.
I didn't even have a way of telling him we were done for about three months till he called me at the end of another prolonged silent/ghosting treatment and I had to tell him we were done three months earlier. I didn't even bother telling him why I'd decided to end it cuz he'd have turned it into me punishing him for my problems. He told all our friends I was "a lot of victim playing and false accusations" that has lost me quite a few friends (if I have to gossip to keep you as a friend then we aren't friends.)
Dorothy, I hear you and feel you. I have experienced the exact same thing.
I don't know why they're so worried about what so-called friends think, when you become a couple that should be a perk that you no longer have to suck up to people who don't like you unless you are a certain way and on board for their way of life although it's not your own! I'm all for partying but not for poisoning my body and feeling useless the next day!
@pasture green Yes, absolutely.
That’s rough, good thing he gave you no choice but to get out of there. It’s scary when you think that the person you’re dating isn’t even worthy of being an acquaintance, let alone an intimate partner, because of the sheer lack of respect they have for you.
Hi Dorothy. Kindness and happiness to you from England. I feel I know exactly what you mean; you wanted to leave, but didn't probably because you are a decent person and you were reluctant to cause hurt, while you were being hurt all along.
I hope you stay strong, keep learning about your own good and healthy qualities, and spend time ONLY on nurturing your healthy relationships with other decent people
Really needed to hear this.. SO TRUE!! I understand they are traumatized and hurt by their experiences, but that doesn’t give them the right to traumatize and injure others. I’m absolutely devastated after my avoidant girlfriend just totally discarded me and dismissed me. I’ve never been so hurt and confused in all of my life..
She didn’t deserve you. Take time to heal and get balanced again. There is someone out there who is worthy of being in a relationship with you. Don’t rush but don’t give up either. God bless you and heal you!❤
Breathtaking. I thought I married a repressed man to feel safe from family violence. How wrong. I missed love, gave him power, hurt my self esteem. I am working on regret that I did not leave when I could. I kept projecting love onto him while he was utterly false. Yes he too was was abused. This heart aches.
You've certainly learned through that terrible experience! Don't let regret own you. I know. I'm there, too. We have today. ❤
@@susannay.3437 Thank you. I believe in grace and today got referred to a woman who works w women love abuse and STDs. The regret will transform I believe. My own healing I hope will help others. Sending you good wishes. Imagine like me the emotions come and go. 🤞♥️
@pasture green I’m so sorry for your pain. You’ll meet better people to spend life with.
The title says it all, brilliant!
From watching your videos what I have learned is not to react/respond to toxic behaviors. Your power is in remain calm. Thanks.
I have seen many people that have the "avoidant personality" first hand. I made a new friend, took her to get her car fixed, gave her rides here & there, went out of my way to be a friend. One day she just told me that she couldn't believe anyone could be her friend. Followed by Ghosting. I was true, geniune, honest, open & caring. I just shook my head, thinking, "some ppl just don't like being treated well. " Thinking, "Ok, I get it."
I feel healthier with every video of yours I watch, Dr. Carter. I'm also thankful for other posters sharing and being supportive. After so much isolation and feeling unheard/dismissed/invalidated/confused, this channel (and Surviving Narcissism, of course) is nourishing to my spirit.
I am in this lack of emotion rut,
and I can safely say that low self esteem plays a big role in being this way.
Do you ever feel like youre not worthy of being loved to the point you reject affection and push people away?
I have found that these type folk are ultimately selfish, it’s all about me first and don’t want/find it hard to work at a relationship. Relationships don’t just happen they grow with maturity , these folk are not mature
I avoid most people. I'm sick of the two faced betrayals and then it's ALWAYS my fault. Someone break a window 500 miles away from me? Yep must've been my fault and they "ain't nobody got no time for facts!" Most people can f off as far as I'm concerned. I'm also sick of being blamed for all of society's ills just because I don't have enough melanin for some people. People need to take responsibility for their own actions rather looking to blame someone else based on the most asinine "reasons" such as skin color.
Me first because even normal things feel like survival, if it is an attachment style at play. Those people don't intend to be selfish, but like they say during the flight safety presentation, you gotta put the mask on yourself first. Those with insecure attachment Styles can change it, but it requires dedication. If it is a disorder, then there is some pathology, and that is much different, not really curable. These are the awful people you mention for sure.
Bringing anything up is met with the backlash of "It's not just about you!" Huh? Ya my life, it's about me... Aside from the avoidance, tagging along with theirs, how they want both your lives to be rolled out is one thing, extra workload and expenses another! They're very taxing!
Bingo… they are immature. Simply put
Yep ..right u are
Relationship is something u do NOT SOMETHING YOU HAVE..
GOOD ONE!
IF it's on a shelf it's collecting dust
Some points here I agreed with an some I didn't. I still believe that the avoidant personality is still a little understood. As an avoidant myself I can say that we do care, perhaps a little too much in that we are oversensitive. Its just simply we are too fearful to open the doors to let people in our lives for fears of rejection/abuse/abandonment that we once suffered.
The avoidant can blame others as you say, but I believe it is because they do not understand themselves and that they have avoidant personality disorder. I was the same for a while, blaming the other person for the relationship breakdown, but once I understood the disorder that I had, half the battle was won and I knew I needed to seek help in moving forward.
You state that the avoidant 'acts' like the victim, its because we were and it is certainly no act. Our avoidant behaviour is our defence mechanism, because we do not want to face the traumas & abuse that we had to deal with, with perhaps in our childhood.
I can also see another video you have done titled '7 games avoidants play' I certainly will not be watching that. It is not 'game' we play as you state, it is trauma that has not healed. Consider your words better.
I agree this video was weird. I think I’m the least narcissistic because I’m always thinking about how I can hurt another person. I over analyze everything and over check just to make sure that I’m not hurting people. I’ve been scapegoated all my life that I’m scared of hurting people. If someone ask me to more social I over push myself to be social. I’m always analyzing my behavior and will be the first one to admit I messed up on something.
As someone who knows avoidents you are correct, this is a simple blame game
There’s a difference between avoidant personality disorder, and having avoidant attachment. I think this video is about the latter.
Sure, avoidants become the way that they are because they were once victims of trauma. But, I think what he's getting at in the video is that they play out their avoidant behaviors with EVERYONE - not just the person/people who traumatized them.
Like, no, my expectation for emotional reciprocity from my partner or friend is NOT abuse. So when I express frustration or sadness that I'm doing all the emotional labor, and ask for some kind of deeper connection or support, don't turn it around on me and try to tell me that I'm hurting you. Just because you're *feeling* hurt or triggered by my reasonable needs doesn't mean that *I* am to blame for your pain.
It's not your fault that you were hurt in the past. But it IS your responsibility, as an adult, to do the work to heal from it and choose new behaviors. Especially if you are so deeply aware of how much your trauma-driven behaviors hurt other people.
If you are na adult and you're dragging your childhood shit around with you and projecting it into your relationships then you suck. Period. Grow up and face your crap.
Some REALLY great points, Les. I think you may have just described an 18-year marriage that I was involved in. . . Transformation, individually, is something that has to be desired. People CAN change - but only if, and when, they WANT to. As another wise counselor once shared with me, "Nothing changes, until I do."
I’d never heard of attachment theory until I got into a “relationship” with a woman who I’d describe as a text book avoidant. She was amazing at first. She was warm and compassionate, intimate and stunningly beautiful. We’d gotten into the first argument we’d ever had and it was like I was some kind of monster for being upset about something. I’d never been gaslit so effectively in my life. I thought I was going nuts. She became cold and distant almost over night, never accountable for ANYTHING, never apologized and everything somehow ended up being my fault. I even went as far as to apologize for thing I knew I shouldn’t have, just as an attempt to resolve our differences. I’ve never been so miserable and alone with someone in my life. I left her after 8 months together.
I don’t think she’ll ever own any of it or get any help. I’ve never met someone more stubborn and unapologetic in my life. Stay away from these people at all costs. They will absolutely ruin someone; even a healthy secure partner. I was secure when we started together. I’m not anymore…. An avoidant type is not worth the heartache and does not deserve your love unless they’re willing to commit to therapy.
It's scary how your experience mirrors mine EXACTLY. I am a shell of who I was. Sending you genuine love and care. Good luck.
Other people’s choices aren’t our responsibility
No. But it sure can effect our lives.
@@chinookvalley yes. I guess that’s why we’re here 😉
Thank you, sir. This is so spot on and very helpful. It can feel like there is no hope of closure after a sincere attempt to communicate with these people, so the validation here is healing. I hope anyone going through this finds the same comfort I did in it. Have a great day!
Yes, I’ve move forward. I’ve learned to do this with my boundaries and civility. It’s worth the life lesson to see that some people can’t give what you can back. It’s ok. We all have the power to crate our environment with our boundaries.
Well Said!
Some people have no emotional intelligence. They don’t have a clue that their behavior is causing relationship problems. You can’t communicate with people like that. Sad!
That’s so true about my EX, and I thought I was the anxious one! I am normal but it’s her who’s not healthy!
Thank you Doc. You have opened my eyes. i have been played for almost two years. they damage you mentally almost beyond repair! Stay away from any fearful avoidant and run for the hills.
This was a huge insite on an experience I just had with the man I've been dating for 5 months. 😔 I have a history of getting into relations with men who portray these traits.i was always so wound up in loving them that I lost myself and more often than not they would treat me bad. It was really traumatizing... but I've been to therapy and I've learned how to create boundaries. I'm not perfect at them as I'm still a deeply empathetic person and I can't always help wanting to shower love on those who need it most. It really breaks my heart to have to let him go... but that man can't give me his pain... it's not mine to own. Hurt people hurt people... even if it isn't malicious or intentional
Thank you. Abused, physically and sexually. Avoidant. Pushed away a wonderful woman, someone creative, smart, beautiful. I was scared and shrank inside, her pleas for closeness becoming more desperate, which only made me shrink further inside myself. Thank you for describing my inability to attach and connect, and the exasperation and pain I inflicted. I'm commited to the work involved in changing that fearful pattern of perceived safety in avoidance.
Good for you. You are very brave. I had to leave someone who was perfect for me...except for all the avoidance. It will take a long time to get over him
You are opening yourself up to such a wonderful rich life with someone. You don't even realize how much your hard work will pay off. ❤
Thank you so much for opening yourself up to the ability to self reflect, and your very very brave😢
They are dead ends, cul de sacs, 🤔😣 I dont put up with it. Its horribly non workable. I'm dealing with the residual things of the anger, depression ect. But I do accept that that's them but not me. I'm going to get better and move forward. Thank you Dr Carter❤
Kearie Washburn:
I have so much respect, care and love for what you said. Wow 👏. As I am a female I gulped with glory. It's helpful to all of us women that can't stand these monsters who we did not create. Go away losers.
I have symptoms of this disorder, but have not been diagnosed. For me, it's both a HUGE feeling of inadequacy often times, a feeling that I just don't measure up, and people will just never understand or like me; but also sometimes, feelings that I am superior to others in other avenues, and that I really can't be bothered by lesser people. As you can imagine, a very difficult way to live.
Avoidant person here. I relate to what you said, full of very unsettling contradictions. I believe the sense of superiority is a way for us to cope with our low self esteem and also because we were shown so little empathy, we don't know how to access it. I had to teach myself empathy through certain podcasts, shows or books and that superiority complex vanished. Working on self love now which is the hardest part, growing empathy and care for others was a gateway for me to start accepting myself.
@@tribtrob3064 I applaud you for doing that for yourself. Just a few avoidants get the courage to try to get better. Keep it up!
@@tribtrob3064 can you recommend any of those podcasts, shows or books please? I am struggling with the same issue / realization. Although I would not call it a disorder as @Pigdoc1 states - afaik it is an attachment style.
@@jameslevinson6693 I understand what you mean about it being called a disorder. We evolved the best we could in a hostile environment. I'm happy to share with you those shows, but what resonated with me might not for yourself. The change also occured without me noticing and not conciously searching for that change, it took me over 2 years of this daily "practice" to realize how much it impacted me. Here it goes, I hope any of these will help you, if not please don't give up the search.
TV shows :
This Is Us
Rectify
Books :
Any of Jane Austen works
Don Quixote (The funniest and most humane creation I encountered)
Podcasts :
Radiolab, I'm less of a fan of how the show has become now. I recommend listening to the first episodes and working your way up. The passion for science, the ever curious mind and openness towards others from Robert Krulwich played a significant role in my own life.
Ear Hustle, a podcast made by inmates from San Quentin prison. Very deep, thoughtful and moving stories from the scum of society.
Then I slowly moved into self help podcasts such as :
The Overwhelmed Brain - Paul Colaianni
Unbroken - Pete Buecker
This guy isn't empathetic at all to someone with a disorder they can't deal with
I was with an avoidant personality in marriage for 35 yrs. I only thought it was social anxiety and I empathized with him as I am not the most socially confident person myself. His avoidance made him a bit narcissistic as well, refusing to try to change and saying that was just what he was. He was a great golfer but I feel his avoidance personality ruined his chance at ever achieving his dreams for golf. In the last years he avoided me and blamed me. He would never discuss any issues that were going on with our relationship or our children. It was just his way or forget it and so then he distanced himself from me rather than work anything out. In the end I fell into the begging and pleading and never once got much of an explanation except to be called a bitch. When I did everything around home and worked a full time job and was tired and felt disrespected and was becoming increasingly depressed. His avoidant personality prevents him from attempting change because I think he thinks anything he tries he will fail, so he will just be the failure that he is until he dies.
As an avoidant person, it is very interesting to see your perspective and emotional frustration. Perhaps it is best for avoidant people to just be alone, as they cannot communicate well emotionally. The avoidant do feel emotions but they are often raw and painful and they suppress your emotional perspective because they did the same with themselves. The idea of a relationship is to share, to become a new person with another, to become part of the family. That is like hell to an avoidant, because being within a family also means loosing the ownership of individuality. Perhaps he felt that he was loosing himself being married and tried to preserve himself.
Janet, I hear you! And one sad part for me is, when I got married, *I* was the one who was broken; growing up in a dysfunctional family left me wanting connections but afraid to make them. My husband grew up in a normal family & coaxed me into connecting and healing & being loved.
Problem was -- he BECAME avoidant later after years of being in a very difficult field with a narcissistic boss. So now after 40 years I feel like I would be healthier with someone else. Problem is I love him, and he's so much better when he has a few days off; I'm trying to hold myself together till he retires. A dog would help. Running away might help. A different job (for me) with more "people time" might help. It's hard.
@hyrenapth5583 nice try but A person "loses himself" when they do nothing but give; the avoidant doesn't give!!!! The avoidant partner keeps all his feelings to himself, never gives access, never is vulnerable or needy or weary; but is always onguard against others, even their heart-partner!
But it was helpful to hear your perspective on the scariest of sharing emotion.
Martyrdom at it's finest.
No personal accountability.
Simple. Powerful. True.
This is a classic confusion between avoidant and narcissistic personality and this logic is often the cause of mis-diagnosis.
It’s makes me upset because I’m avoidant because of narcissism. I wish people understand us better
There’s also avoidant attachment vs avoidant personality disorder (APD). Two different things.
@@Mistical1982 exactly and he is describing APD not a style of relating. Makes me wonder if he is a real psychologist at all
@@greglyons2526I was thinking the same AVPD is more relative to social phobia than narccism
You've just described my ex down to the finest detail. I, unfortunately, did allow myself to get sucked into his chaos and, as you said, developed low self esteem, depression, and anxiety because of it. I tried to persuade him to connect with me constantly, which as you also said, I think became a drug to him. I always said "you only like me because I like you," and during a fight once he agreed with me. Anytime there was conflict in the relationship, he NEVER was able to see how his behavior contributed to the dynamic. Even at the very end when we were sorta debriefing the relationship, he didn't accept a single ounce of responsibility. It's not so much that he played the victim per se - more that he thought he was perfect, objectively correct, and that a healthy relationship shouldn't require any kind of compromise, discomfort, or effort on his part.
Removing him from my life was one of the very best decisions I've ever made. We broke up about a year ago, and I'm so much happier now. Lesson learned.
Ditto for me!
"They are injured individuals, but you don't want their injuries define who you are". BOOOOM! wow Im speechless. That hit hard.
It took me quite a while to figure this out, and now that I know what I'm dealing with, I have totally withdrawn from this person emotionally. No matter what I have said, or done, there is no getting through. Now, I'm done. I know that there is no point in explaining anything because it just doesn't sink in and nothing changes. I just want out, and that is my goal. Thanks, Dr. C., you have helped me see that I can't change them, and I don't have to feel guilty about it. :) They love to dump on the guilt, don't they?
Sure, they are the ones who love to dump the guilt - " you have helped me see that I can't change them " .
Did you get out?
Thank you for your videos. I relate to the avoidant/abandonment issues, and when asked “talk to me” I swear the words lock up in my throat. Sometimes I go numb or can’t even articulate what I am feeling. When I get upset I just feel exhausted. I do keep busy and I know that is sometimes resented, but I fear falling behind and I only can rely on myself. It’s hard.
Constantly battling between wanting intimacy and distance is a inner war that leaves me exhausted and unable to show up 100% for the loved ones in my life. I ghost them so they can learn to live without needing me but come back once I feel Ive gotten “better” only to self isolate soon after and cause people confusion as to why Ive seemingly abandoned them. I refuse to date due to the woman I left feeling horrible after my constant emotional instability, I owe it to them to make sure I just stay to myself until im a hundred percent ready to be there for my partner and wont leave them in the dust when we start to get closer
You do 👍!!
Kudos to you for the maturity to admit, and to state that publicly online though.
@@unknowntosociety01 Goodluck on your journey😢Know that your doing the right thing..
This hits home! Perfect explanation! Thank you so much for your work.
Dr Carter, your videos are real eye openers onto subjects most people are not even aware of. They present to the public a means to become almost effortlesly educated in a number of areas in Psychology. The science and study of human behavior is young and still expanding. It's truly a pleasure to have your videos as an ongoing educational experience. Thank your very much and "Bonne Continuation"
Once I had expectations from my ex, he left the relationship. He ghosted me with no conversation or closure. It is cruel.
Same here, ghosted with NO conversation, not a word!! Very cruel (I didnt' do anything wrong, either)
Fell in love with someone like that, took me almost 7 years to leave. 💔
This was perfect! Thank you for sharing!
My girlfriend is an empathetic, caring but injured individual. Until I realised what was going on I didn't understand the roller coaster. I have realised that I have my own issues and my engagement style is anxious. We both had been and going through therapy. It may not work in the end, but knowing what this is definitely helps a lot
Its great to be relied upon!
Even more so especially if you are both willing and able 🙏
I agree. It’s beautiful.
This was a very timely video for me, Dr. Carter. Thank you!
The title of this video should be about avoidant narcissists or covert narcissists instead of just avoidant personality disorder. There is overlap but not to this level.
While the avoidant behaviors are rude and even cruel at times, people with this disorder tend to attract malignant narcissists and other types of victimizers (even sociopaths) as well.
The true narcissist gets pissed off by the ghosting, etc, so they publicly turn themselves into the victim in order to feed their ego.
Other times you have two avoidant narcissists in a relationship (or one is more covert while the other is extroverted). It's a cesspool, but it's not plain avoidant personality disorder.
Thank you so much! I have allowed my pleading and begging to give my husband too much power. He has done absolutely nothing over the years to show that he has any interest at all in keeping our marriage relationship growing, despite his countless broken promises. This video has made me sigh with relief, knowing I'm doing the right thing.
Avoidant personality is a "not that into you" thing. If people are not into you, get out immediately.
Les Lee If only it was that simple. Mostly by the time their true colours show you are hooked. It's how they work. Even red flags early on can get dismissed especially if you have esteem issues.
@@Jessica-zf2df aka covert narcissists...
It’s more of a “let’s see how things play out btw us first so then i know if im 100% into you or if you too turn to be incompatible with me”, i feel they try to spare their feelings till they know they feel 100% safe and bc they can trust you, that takes time and that security is hardly ever reached also bc yalls misunderstand each other.
I do believe both parties need to be transparent and assert their boundaries firmly too during the relationship, so no one can become a victim but just someone who chooses what to put up with
it's tough to do that when it shows itself a year into a heavy relationship.
Amazing video Dr. Carter! You are a source of inspiration and knowledge!
Thank you thank you thank you for sharing your expertise! I didn’t know what an avoidant was until a few weeks ago. “Someone who is repeatedly showing you they are not interested in connecting…choosing team healthy…” so many great nuggets of wisdom. Thank you!!!
This describes my ex to a T. Very helpful. It was a crazy-making dynamic. Luckily by that point in my life I did not revert to pleading mode, except to insist on understanding the why's of his behavior (to no avail). What has puzzled me is how he has so many friends, a devoted group. He's good at the superficiality, I guess.
"Don't let their injury define who you are" - Brilliant!
yes, I didn't plead as much as I tried to figure out "why", until I went through the cycle a gajillion times.....then woke up.
My notes (edited transcript):
2:20 Some of these individuals can have strong narcissistic tendencies. Sometimes they're overt narcissists and they like to be loud and showy, but they don't want to be close. Sometimes they're very covert. They give the appearance of wanting to be normal but in fact they're just not going to do it.
3:41 One of the things that defines the avoidant person is they don't take responsibility for the way that they are. They don't take responsibility for the fact that they create disaster, and they play right into relationship collapse. Instead, they play the victim role.
4:40 But we can grow, and we can learn how to find individuals who can lean into the healthy ingredients. With the avoidant person, it's not a matter of momentary self-reservation; it's like, “No, I have a way of life that says ‘you will not get close to me’.”
4:58 Now you're over there in trying to engage with that avoidant person and you're kind of twisted around. I thought originally this was going to be a good relationship but now I feel duped. When you try to say something to that person the avoided individual will say, “There's something wrong with your expectations. You're the problem.” Then you can become very angry and very hurt and when you try to express that anger and hurt, you don't get good reactions which only intensifies the emotion on the inside. And then the avoidant person can go into the crazy making kind of behavior where they'll sometimes ghost you only to reappear later on.
5:46 They can do anything and everything except say, “Why don't we talk about it?” That's what healthy people do, and they simply can't do it.
5:55 Avoidant people tend to have a deep history of having felt abandoned or even abused in their earlier years. Sometimes there can be a paranoia that they operate with. They have a history where the whole notion of shame is front and center in the way that they think about life. “If you do this, you'll be held in a high acclaim; if you do this, you'll be ashamed. Which means they will not allow themselves to be vulnerable whatsoever.
6:33 It could be that these individuals lived with chronic superficiality with many other individuals in their past and they learned to skate along, without having to go into much depth in their engagements.
6:47 When you're dealing with these avoidant individuals, rather than going into a ‘what can we do to make this better’ kind of a mindset, you can have more of a mindset that says ‘I want to be healthy despite their pathology that they bring’. “Just because this person is closed off doesn't mean that I have to go into my own personal collapse.”
7:14 The relationship itself may not have a solid foundation, but I can't let that person get in my head so much that their avoidance of me gets me to the place where I am not a healthy person.
7:46 It can cause you to have that argumentative style. You can go into depression and anxiety and things of that nature.
7:56 Basically, these individuals are communicating, “I’ll hang up hang around with you as long as you don't have any major expectations of me.”
8:08 It's normal, it's good to desire closeness, to desire connectedness. But what we are going to say is, “I'll lower my expectations. You've made it very clear that you're not really into, not just me, but into people in general. I get it.”
8:42 The avoidant person, rather than thinking, “Wait a minute, we can talk this through; their basic mantra is ‘one way or another, I have to be in control’. So you want to be in control but I don't want to be controlled by you. The biggest mistake that you can make with that avoidant person is you can go into pleading, you can go into the coercive, you can go into the persuasive kind of mode. Because when that happens, they feel very empowered by that. “I can see that you're wanting something from me and I kind of like the surge of power that that gives me.” (MY NOTE: I have definitely gotten the impression that you prefer me to be seeking interaction, which you then usually reject. When I seek closeness, you seem to want to reject it. When I seek doing my own thing, you seem distressed. Like, if I’m doing my own thing because you have just rejected me, you’re ok with that. If I’m doing my own thing because I’m not even trying to connect with you, you seem to have suppressed upset-ness.) Don't even go into that space with them.
9:24 Everybody has the freedom to choose who they want to be. If that's what they choose then that's where they are; but you have that freedom too. If it becomes clear that this is somebody that just is not going to connect with you, so be it. They are injured individuals, but you don't want to let their injury define who you are.
11:01 I know that you would like to have people that can connect with you but if an individual consistently lets you know, “I am committed to not connecting”, okay, I get it. Instead of trying to pull them out of their dysfunction, I’m hoping that you can move forward on team healthy so that you can be the kind of person that says, “When you engage with me, you're getting somebody that really knows how to love well and how to show respect and civility.”
I would love to be in a relationship but, only with a godly man who knows how a woman is to be treated! I am very loyal woman. Seems they just do not make this kind of man any longer. "morals and values", are missing. I appreciate all you give, that helps confirm or adds to my well being. Ty
I agree this world seems to be lacking in godly men and women but it is not true. God is still on His throne. I believe they are less in number but can be found. Keep praying. God is listening.
@pasture green
I agree that asking for someone to be committed to playing an idealized role is unrealistic, but in this case, I think it’s more about looking for someone with a strong moral standing, who would be driven by a sense of inner compass with sincere intent to stand by their word regardless of what may inevitably sometimes happen. That is the idea of finding someone right for you, but without the expectations that go with needing control over the situation/person.
Realism IS knowing that no one is perfect, we must expect that others will mess up and disappoint us in some way, not because of the idea that all people are intentionally malicious and there’s no point because of that, but that is just human nature-perfect synchronicity is impossible because we are more complex than to be on the same page 24/7, and know that we ourselves will also will mess up and disappoint our partners without meaning to, as well! But, it’s these principled, mature people (the Godly person OP refers to) are the people who will be motivated to change when they fall prey to their opportunistic whims, and are connected and empathic enough to know that your pain hurts as if it happened to themselves. Not an easy person to find!-but those people out there do exist.
To be fair, this is coming from someone who is also Avoidant and greatly prefers to be single, because intimate bonding IS a lot of work that can distract from your singular goals. There’s nothing wrong with not being ready for it-I’m not either. But, I just mean to say that it’s not hopeless, just hopelessly difficult!
I believe it is all about what life lessons you are meant to learn at the moment. Think about that...
I'm listening to the news today. Oh, boy. It's a wonder any of us can get out of bed. Anyone NOT affected by what's going on in the world, must be... dead?
Another grear video. Thank you Dr Carter.
Avoidant is in shock from deep childhood betrayal, abuse,
Neglect, abandonment.
Not afraid to love
Afraid to love AGAIN
The first time was a dangerous, epic fail with no safety, security, and lots of deprivation.
They don’t even know what a healthy relationship looks like.
It takes more than one lifetime to recover from that.
And surviving is not living.
Running on Empty
I've been with a girl that I started dating 2yrs ago she had just experienced a very negative physical altercation with someone she met online and I had just found my dad with his head blown off due to gunshot suicide. I suspect we trauma bonded. I've had more empathy for her and her situation than I have my own. I've suffered through this relationship and I've suffered badly. She claims she loves me but cannot even apologize!! Compromise, give in and I'm just so sad because I care about her past hurts and love her enough to help her heal she seems to care less about mine. I just can't seem to let go after 5 family members and 8 friends committing suicide not to mention drug overdose and more I feel it impossible to let go of someone
@tres That's so hard 😞 the person closest to me in my family committed suicide; the pain never goes away but it gets less with time. I pray you find comfort, and that courage will come so you can do what's right for you, and let go of what's not taking you closer to your goals in life.
Before you go out and make these people seem emotionaly malicious, ask yourself, how do they benefit from the fruits of their behavior? from the lack of connection, purpose, from the loneliness, the pathetic and unwanted, even more by them then you, attempts at feeling normal and able(which can come off as manipulative and attention based). They are afraid and overrun by the feelings of frustration and helplessness, the cycle is vicious. There is a deeply rooted shame and hatred of oneself. Trust is not existent, but more for themselves rather than others.
They want normality, yet are isolated from it, afraid of it, thats the experience. It is their responsibility to change and to keep trying at it, I've been there, still am, its nobodies fault, but its hell for ones with avpd
they don't benefit, it's a compulsion. but kinda like substance abuse, it's hard to experience someone you love seemingly choosing the compulsion over change. Also like substance abuse, they probably have to bottom out, lose things, and self reflect in the wake in order to change. It is tragic and sad for everyone. Avoidant people seem to come out ahead because they're getting what they want at the time, but if youve been close you know the chaos and sadness inside that only grows. It makes it extra hard to be left by them, because you can see what's happening and feel for them even as they're hurting you.
Your channel and information is such a blessing. THANK YOU!
This was brilliant, and has helped me realise so much more
Thank you! that was very helpful, informative, and soothing.
This makes me sad and scared. I have Avoident personality disorder. Reading these comments, this is how my husband must feel about me. This makes me feel like I can't change or don't want to. I want to change so bad but I am scared and anxious of what people will think of me if they get close to me. I hate myself so much, how could anyone like me if they really knew me.
You’ll be alright, it’s ok. Just get therapy and don’t be afraid to talk to your loved ones about it. They’ll understand.
Talk to your loved ones, they will be happy that you open up and confide in them.
I don’t know if this will help anyone but you Must first give the love and understanding you are so willing to give others and shower it on yourself. You can only love to the capacity you love yourself. Huge hugs y’all! Stop the negativity in your mind to your own soul. Heal from your weaknesses and rise up to be you. The true people that are meant to be in your tribe will stay and remain loyal and love you. Hope this helps. Sending warm wishes and love
Admission is the first step. Get all the help you can to help you become whole, healthy and happy. Wishing you success on your journey.
You will be okay.get soke help.
Dr. Carter you are great and thank you for doing this video.
this is so validating, thank you so much
You are so right about that surge of power when you go into pleading mode.
I kind of think of myself as somewhere between Schizoid and Avoidant. From my perspective, it's kinda like being a Nautilus, living in a society of, say, Canines, or Avians. There's NO HOPE of being understood; we might both speak English, but sometimes it can feel like we don't even have a shared language.
With most people, you maintain a rather shallow relationship because no other relationship is possible. It's not because you hate them. It's not because you think yourself superior. It ABSOLUTELY isn't because you want to control them (hell, they have the numbers, if anything you're afraid of THEM controlling you).
Once every millennium you'll bump into an individual with whom it looks like you can have a deeper connection; a fellow cephalopod, an invertebrate or at least a marine creature. It's not that they have to be identical to you, just not be so far apart that the entire effort is an exercise in futility.
The others... well, you know they don't want to hurt you, and you don't want to hurt them, but hurt will inevitably result if they get too close. They have expectations you can't possibly meet, expectations you can't even anticipate, and vice-versa. We'll disappoint each other, and they might even think I'm doing it out of malice. So a healthy distance, we shall maintain. But control or deceive you, I shall not.
I have a similar experience. Better to keep it simple, business like, rational and objective. Most fights and emotional connection are not worth the waste of time and energy.
We dont want to hurt anyone We simply dont want to play the game and that hurts a lot of people despite you wanting to spare them of the black hole feeling that comes with being someone thats close to us. Its much worse than the distance, its a endless pit
This is a very interesting comment, ty for your perspective. I appreciate it. Ty for taking time and spending your energy on this.
Dr. C., you are so spot-on, it's like you live inside my house!!
Can’t wait!
This is a tricky one for me because I can be avoidant as well. Certainly I have reasons and excuses, but I know I've done so when strengthening a relationship would've been a good thing and maybe intuitive for others.
It's so tough--we want to have general expectations in a relationship, but you don't want to outright make demands, and that's tough to do.
Thanks for having this channel as well as Surviving Narcissism!
Yes. This. EXACTLY describes the demise of my marriage. Thank you.
Excellent presentation and well said.
Very helpful
I believe I am avoidant, for sure. Not a proper diagnosis, but several signs.
Glad you're talking about this, too, DrC.
I was very close friends with a woman for 10 years or so. Once I had cancer she didn't stay in touch often. I had surgeries and she said I'll come take you to lunch. So while we were at lunch she told me she couldn't handle watching me suffer. I told her I understand and it's okay. I didn't hear from her much through my chemo treatments and I finally got through that after 6 months. It's been 7 years now free from cancer!! I reach out to her periodically and she says we'll get together soon. Well it has happened twice in 7 years. She still says at times we'll have lunch. Yesterday I seen on Facebook that she went with a friend of hers to a Elvis Presley theater. I'm glad she got to go and enjoy that with her friend. I have told myself that I don't need to have expectations of her and I won't bother her anymore. She knows how to find me if she chooses to do so on her own.
It's not you, it's her, forget her and get a real friend.
Sorry.
Ouch. The holding out of hope. Best to YOU!
So very true. I was in a four-year relationship/situationship with one. He finally cheated., but wanted to remain “friends “. I walked away forever without a tear. No more.
I just stumbled onto this video and I don’t agree with your interpretation of avoidant personalities and I feel like you don’t truly understand them. Dr. Carter, you have a very extreme attitude. I think I have avoidant personality but it isn’t because I am narcissistic or cold or callous. I am actually one of the most compassionate and empathetic people. And because of that, I have avoidant personality. I connect with others on a very deep level and it’s exhausting for me. I love people! But it’s overwhelming, the things they share with me and the depth of their connection.
I don’t mean to pat myself on the back, because I have plenty of things in my life that I get wrong; but I am always walking away from my interactions with people knowing their life story and they want to be best friends. And so I am just so tired - all the time. I have a husband and 4 young adult children that are my best friends. I don’t want many other relationships. I like to be with my family or alone.
I guess I just don’t know how to hold people at arms length. And then I pull away when it is just too much. It is something I am trying to figure out though. It breaks my heart to know how deeply I have hurt others because I pull away.
Please, Dr Carter - my advice (take it for what it’s worth, I am just commenter on your UA-cam video) is to try to understand the individual with avoidant personality rather than throw a blanket belief over all of us. I’m not narcissistic and I don’t try to play mind games. I really am just a human being trying to find ways to make connections with others that are comfortable to me. I believe that as we try to understand one another instead of belittling or demeaning each other, we can bring more light and understanding to the human race.
agree
exactlyy
Dr. Carter is actually speaking of "Avoidant Attachment Style", look it up. There's a difference between Avoidant Personality and Avoidant Attachment Style!
Thank you so much. This was extremely helpful.
I needed this video. Thank you.
I fear that I may have some of these attributes. Unfortunately my reasoning is not that I fear or distrust others. It's more that the Narcissist / dark triad in my life has vowed to destroy any relationship that I begin to build and she is very successful at hurting and destroying people simply because I was nice to them. It's as if me being a good sane person is a threat. I'v gone no contact and for me it has helped, however it's clear strings are still being pulled behind the scene, The link is always apparent but not necessarily provable.
That's "avoidance" for self preservation as Dr. C mentioned. One day at a time. I pray for your safety and freedom from this evil. ❤
Move far away. Delete block social media’s.
'as if you being a good and sane person is a threat '....I totally understand that; exactly the same experience I've had. It's a bizarre form of jealousy and I'm guessing it includes you being kind, helpful, considerate, empathetic, giving, respectful and loving to others. Any time I did any of that for others,, I would be called a piece of sh**, a liar, I'd get accused of cheating and much else. I was baffled for 4 years and finally made the link and understood that my healthy and good qualities were the thingsthat set off the narcissistic rage. After much verbal, emotional and physical damage to me and our home I had to call poli e on 2 occasions to get her out of my life, and stop the destruction to neighbours, friends and family.
Please celebrate your saneness and goodness, and all your other healthy attributes ; they are what will help you to have a happier life away from the person who makes your life difficult simply because you are good and sane.
Kindness to you from Stu in England
Trust your instinct. If you feel like something ill is happening, there’s an overwhelmingly large probability that it is. That being said, it’s not unreasonable to want to avoid people like that, even people in general for a little while, while you process what just happened. Just know that she can’t control you. Keep finding ways to work away from her. It sounds like a nasty situation, but you will eventually achieve your freedom.
@@chilloften therapists advise moving at least 3 full days drive away, you are correct. You may even have to change your name if that's what it takes.
thank you Dr Carter for this video. I think you just put a word to how I feel about my mom. I've never been able to have a genuinely close relationship with her despite wanting to. there's a part of her that I feel I don't know at all and she is closed off. I always assumed this was from losing her own mother when she was young. thank you for your videos 😊
When someone hurts me, I lose trust and discontinue closeness with that person.
this explains so much about me. thank you for the insight. i have alot to learn
All o the avoidant traits you described describe me to a t :/ I just have so many feelings of self inadequacy that I don't know how to act in relationships.
It is interesting to hear that you can diagnose people using the reactions of other people to them.
@1:12 It's not a choice, they didn't "decide", it's trauma from early childhood!
frr
Thank you sir. This helped me understand.
I have been listening for years and also have one of your classes. This describes the "cycle" of my marriage. I unfortunately kept hearing what he said and attempted to give him the benefit of the doubt, all the while developing the anger, persuasive behaviors that were wrong. When I was becoming someone I couldn't live with, I left and the separation did nothing. As I learned and became healthier, I have been the initiator of living separately. He is so avoidant that this works well enough for my health! I guess my concern is that my beliefs are what kept me "trying"......I remember being in a phase of trying to have "no expectations"! He loved that! Well, having an expectation of closeness and iron sharpening iron in a healthy way is pretty ok in my book. Instead, I felt guilty. Arguing felt good because i would be connected.....Ugh! I just wish there was a way for the church to recognize that marriage on paper is not worth is all all costs. It is a label and piece of paper. So as my beliefs have changed, I am frustrated to see the "long way" I took and that others are doing the same thing, when if they were empowered earlier, they could avoid going through the downward, unhealthy spiral. I have experienced the reality of intimacy avoidance and it is a destructive force when combined with narcissistic behaviors. I'd also like to say that chronic superficiality over a lifetime can be as destructive as many other behaviors and being "nice" can perpetuate this ad infinitum. All bad combinations and denial in a slippery form.
I trust this man. He helped me learn about a Narcissist who got me messed up.