People Who Go Into Shutdown Mode: What's Going On?
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2021
- Behind trust, communication skills are most necessary in contributing to healthy relationships. Dr. Les Carter describes how some individuals choose not to engage with you in a healthy manner as evidenced by their willingness to simply shut down. He breaks down this trend, explaining their motives then discussing how you can react cleanly when faced with this dysfunction.
Dr. Les Carter is a semi-retired psychotherapist who spent 41 years in private practice in the Dallas, Tx. metroplex. He now resides in Waco, Tx. He has conducted over 65,000 counseling sessions, written extensively, and has presented many workshops and seminars.
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I may be misunderstanding what your saying but people who shutdown are not necessarily manipulative and controlling. Those who have experienced trauma shut down and isolate.
You are misunderstanding what he's talking about.
5000% true
No, we don't "shut down" ... we just try to disassociate and put up boundaries. "Shut down" and "Shut out" is not the same.
They are who they hate Satan
True, I shut down cause I refuse to say anything afraid of being argumentative towards me or they wont listen to how I’m hurting by what they sad to me that hurts.
You forgot to mention a person who goes into shut down mode
Because no one cares to listen or even ask about their feelings.
That sounds like immaturity and possible covert narcissism. Under what circumstance would a grown adult think stonewalling is a viable option for conflict resolution?
@@agardenapart9515 it's not always narcissism or immaturity when the person shutting down is dealing with a malignant narcissist. Remember there is no communication in a productive way with a narcissist.
@@agardenapart9515 - Don't jump to conclusions so fast when you are not ever been in someone else's shoes. A person could be shutting down while having to walk on egg shells when hoping to prevent getting thrown into the refrigerator again ending up with a gash on their head needing stiches or to prevent getting pushed over and over again all the way to the door to the outside of the house while being shouted at just for speaking your own mind while it is very cold at the time with no extra money in your pocket near the end of the month. A person can take only so much of that sort of behavior coming from a family member before having to cope with coming down with a chronic illness as result too. Better to get labeled with having a problem called the mental habit of dissociation than coming down with something far worse. Like dying instead of getting a chronic illness after getting almost strangled to death by the head of a family while that woman was being expected to obey the person there with the most guns owned at the time in a family too all because the head of that family had always managed to find enough admiring women around while exercising his rights to the second amendment in whatever best to him way he sees fit. Remember that when a narcissist moves on often that is often the very best thing which can happen to whom they are leaving behind.
They tell you what to think or how you should feel. I dont count as an adult human being.
When you get ignored by everybody in your family.
Normal people can do this as a way to have boundaries with Narcissists. Sometimes the only way to keep your sanity is to shut down! It's different when Narcissists do this as a way to control and punish other people. The difference is in the motive for shutting down.
From one Libra to another, that is exactly how I feel.
I have shut down -soo helpful -thanks!
WORD, Libra, WORD!!!
What I think is the greatest frustration for Libras is being treated so unfairly, and being accused of actions or intent that just are not true. It is that sense of injustice that gets me down.
@@chriswyma145 So true this: "Narcissists will never listen to you, or consider your intentions, or point of view because they don't have the capacity to accept themselves and their own humanity."
As far as taking things personally, that is something difficult to ignore. Injustice is hurtful even if we do understand from whom it is coming. If it hurts, it is indeed because of something we have taken personally.
When you go no contact with the narcissists and their flying monkeys. It can be seen as shut down, however it is just necessary self protection.
I agree.
yes, hear, hear! That's my question....how is this different from no contact? Is it in the intention? I come from a family with multiple narcissists. I've gone no contact with my dad for self preservation. But it seems like my two sisters have always stonewalled me since childhood, and I have no idea why. And of course my flying monkey sisters criticize me for no contacting my dad!
Absolutely
Exactly.
@@noelleprasada6994 , maybe the father treats your sisters differently and they don't see what you see and what is really going on. I have seen it in my life and feels like there is favoritism going on. Stand your ground . Ask your father to have a honest conversation and Maybe things will be better.
Shutting down to control the other person = unhealthy; Shutting down/shutting out to remove a toxic person from your life = healthy. Huge difference.
Nice
Amen
Amen! I really appreciate Dr. Carter. His expertise on this topic is so needed for many. On a daily basis we all have to deal with someone who doesn't know boundaries, how to communicate well, etc. Removing my self from a narcissist has been the best thing. I'm sure they are finding another supply, although they still try subtlely from time to time.
Exactly...Thank you
Great advice
I think a dissociative shutdown can be an adaptive response to negative stimuli, such as stress and anxiety as a result of long-term narcissistic abuse.
He's not talking about that.
Those kinds of signs and symptoms can also be a physical response to kidney failure or the result of so many other underlying health problems too and so don't neglect looking for better medical help after a physician said it is only a mental problem response. Never take your own health for granted or the health of a family member for granted while often relying too much only on advice. Remember that your family doctor works for you too while you are the head of any medical health team which is offering care to you. Too many men have already died while continuing to trust workplace insurance companies along with being too trusting of both their bosses and the family doctor.
@@agardenapart9515 Please explain so we understand then. Thank you.
It’s could be the same as the freeze response.
so what do you do?
There is no open communication with a narcissist. I call it gray rocking to save my sanity.
Yep! Dr. C
When a person is verbally abusive, I go into shut-down mode. I do this to protect myself. I know attempting to discuss it is pointless and I may end up being hurt more. It's easier to withdraw. It's how I cope.
Shut down mode to one person is another's self preservation.
What determines whether it is abuse or self-preservation is whether there IS or IS NOT two-way communication throughout the process.
The same can be said for vampires when preying on others.
This guy seems to stay in the realm of the only moderately-troubled. There are many, many cases where shutting the door and throwing the bar across it is precisely the right strategy, and entirely warranted.
Amen.
I enabled my toxic family for decades. Now I am no contact with my entire toxic family. I am done with accepting abuse for love.
I am in shutdown mode, as a result of brutal, ongoing depression.
My “shutdown” is definitely not about punishing or manipulating anyone.
I feel overwhelmed by life.
I don’t enjoy anything anymore.
I’m exhausted.
I ignore my phone and emails because I can’t handle anything else.
I just want to be in my head.
I'm right there with you. Actually scares me some because I do love my family but I'm too tired to plan events. I've become introverted.
🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I was right there with you in the same situation. Whether my family member is a narc or not, I can't say for sure, but too much criticism, too much put down, no talking about problems, only criticizing and abuse, I emotionally shut down from life, other than absolute basic functions.
Then I suffered a severe injury, which landed me in the hospital for two months during peak covid explosion last fall.
After the first two weeks in isolation, (away from my source of abuse) it's amazing how much better I felt. I recovered my interest and zest for life, and only emotionally panicked and shut down when facing my abuser.
It's amazing how healing getting away from abuse can be!!!
¹³sept: too much Gaming can do that to the person. Stay out of your head, wanna say follow your ❤ ... but i will say from experience 'time' heals, engage in 'SELF CARE' it's a thing now, read somewhere ' listening to 5 to 10 songs a day strengthens memory and immune system and reduces the risk of depression by 80% '
I am totally there! Married to an alcoholic narcissist.
The sign that's it's time to say "Goodbye"
I do shutdown mode when I'm dealing with manipulators or people who lack empathy. Most people I deal with who I shutdown on are abusive or users, I don't shutdown on people who are trying to have a mutual understanding or a collaborative situation. If people are not trying to hear me out, then I'm out.
Absolutely.
Same here ❤
You have described the narcissist’s Silent Treatment. This is my marriage. My husband WILL NOT discuss anything of any substance. He will never return to the topic that initiated the Silent Treatment. This is narcissistic abuse.
My (now ex) husband did the same. It was like living in the twilight zone for far too long. I kept thinking something was wrong with me.
Yes, CJ, that is sadly my experience as well.
No issue is ever resolved. I am so glad I don’t have to deal with that anymore. I’ve been separated from him going on two years.
Same here. If I push when he shuts down hubby gets very angry then I get the name calling.
Absolutely it's abuse. I notice there's a lot of women living in these situations. I wonder why?
There are different types of shutting down, and not all of them are to manipulate. A lot of people just haven't learned to navigate nor verbalize what's going on inside.
Yes, and I'll address this tomorrow on my live feed. Dr. C
My mother. All my life. Would get mad at me for something and wouldn’t want to be around me or talk to me. One time it lasted 3 years. She didn’t talk to her mother for 10 years one time. Then my dad would talk me into kissing her behind to make up. At 60 I’ve finally moved to another county and trying to get free from the whole toxic family.
Sounds like more than shit down modes here. Sounds like deep resentment , grudge holding, and lack of forgiveness.
@@gabrielamartiniuc6322 Or maybe resignation & self preservation. It is not always appropriate to forgive someone, if by that you mean going on as though nothing has happened. That can just facilitate further abuse.
I'd have to leave a nephew behind who is still under age and so that is not going to happen for awhile regardless of any opportunity which may come by. Besides. The nation I live in already has about the same level of opportunities to me or way better than the majority of other nations right now anyway.
I'd have to leave a nephew behind who is still under age and so that is not going to happen for awhile regardless of any opportunity which may come by. Besides. The nation I live in already has about the same level of opportunities to me or way better than the majority of other nations right now anyway.
They do the shutdown mode when they are wrong and they know it. It is easier for them to be quiet and act like like the victim then to just apologize and move forward like an mature individual who takes responsibility.
You got that perfectly.
Plus it forces you to apologize.
True!
Exactly, Sherri!
Sherri you hit the head right on the nail what you said
Something to consider,: One of my best friends had a very traumatic childhood - so when she was in highly charged situations, she shut down completely. I stuck with her as she started going to therapy. It took her many years of therapy, but she doesn't shut down anymore. Now she says that she did not have the coping and communication skills to deal well with very stressful situations. So not everyone who shuts down is being manipulative, some just might come from a background of abuse and simply lack some skills.
I agree, but people who have this behavior DO need to accept that it is not right, and take responsibility for themselves and get help for it. If somebody is aware that they do this, is aware that it is wrong, and they choose to not get help for it and continue doing it, it becomes abuse in my opinion.
The same way that a boy who was beat by his father as a child is not excused if he becomes a father and beats his own child. Just because you have been abused in the past, does not make it okay for you to willingly abuse others.
@@fireandiron4181 willingly is the key word here. Someone having a Freeze response to trauma related triggers is ruled by amygdala/ survivor brain, and this actually flushes cortisol to the frontal cortex which switches off rational thinking. I see you writing similar comments, but you don’t seem to have much exposure to PTSD, CPTSD, and the 4Fs. Checkout “CPTSD, Surviving to Thriving” by Pete Walker for some further insights. You’re not totally wrong or anything, just missing a piece of the puzzle for a healthier and more compassionate POV, inclusive of trauma survivors.
You're a true friend worthy of the name, good for you for sticking by your friend.
It's true I do it
I'm a 'shutdown' person, only after discussion after discussion that in the end exasperates me and I simply must get away for my own wellbeing and sanity. When this repeatedly happens the final shutdown is the end. If you can't treat me kindly or decently I will shut off.
I am too. But what else can you do after numerous conversations of the same topic?!
I think it is better to follow Dr. C.'s advice on how to respond to shut-down from a narcissist. Don't use their tactics of giving someone the silent treatment. Take your own road and be the healthy person. Punishing the narcissist for mistreating you is just playing their game and it's not going to go anywhere that's good for you or them.
I suspect that a lot of people commenting on this thread are using "shut down mode" to mean two different things. One is a narcissistic behavior designed to punish and control another person. The other is what I would call "going no contact" or "limiting exposure" as a way to keep your sanity. I don't think we should use the term "shut down mode" for this second category of healthy self-protection. This is not the same thing as giving someone the silent treatment like a narcissist does.
When you go no contact or limit your time with the narcissist, I think that requires you to physically remove yourself from the person. If you are living in the same house and whenever they speak to you, you don't respond, that is giving someone the silent treatment. You don't have to punish the narcissist for bad behavior. It won't change their behavior or attitude. Using their tactics on them means you have joined their game and you're playing by their rules. That is unhealthy for you. Also, it will never free you from their control. Better to behave as a free person who cannot be manipulated or controlled by the silent treatment or rudeness or any horrendous victimization attempt by the narcissist. This is way more powerful than using any of their tactics against them.
Like Dr. C. said, a decision has to be made on your part as to whether the relationship is worth maintaining or not. You may decide to go no-contact, or to limit your time with the person. If you decide to continue living with or spending time with the narcissist, you will want to go forward in a way that is healthy for you, not taking the bait when they try to suck you into their games of manipulation and control, but choosing to be your own person and live as the person you really want to be.
I don't think this is the same thing - refusing to discuss a situation at all vs. calling it quits after multiple attempts with someone who can't meet you wit the same regard are two very different things.
Thanks for sharing. Just happened to me this morning too again. After already having to block that person on that phone of mine for awhile once already after the umpteenth time of getting yelled at and blamed too for every having been in any car accident and for the last time too while I was a passenger in that car only now on the telephone this morning too. I am being treated like this now by him only because I did care enough about small children when having to intervene to help stop his child abuse once before being trained on how to do so properly without any potential backlash coming back at me. People like that love to think it is too late for me to deserve anything else other than that kind of treatment because of their narcissism. At least I can spot them now a lot earlier on than I used to.
I'm the same way. Especially at work, I shutdown with too much stress. Just walk a way from it.
my sister is very controlling. after a disagreement and my asking her to consider and respect my feelings,her response was "I'm never going to change, either take it or leave it" so I choose to leave it (after a lifetime of her dominance attitude). she proceeded to talk badly about me to other family members including my husband and grown children.... and she is the "victim" of me. I have no desire to reopen that one sided. "you don't matter" relationship. so yes..I am in shut down mode and will stay there for my own mental health.
In a similar context, my sister excused her behavior by saying to me, “Well, you KNOW how reactive I am!”.
My shutdown is with a sister too.
And i agree with every word you said.
That saying ...
'People will forget what you said,
forget what you did -
but never forget
how you made them feel'
is so true. . . Although, what they said & did is exactly why we feel the way we do.
It's important to distinguish between grey rock mode (a strategy for dealing with someone with strong narcissistic traits) and stonewalling (a shutdown in communication akin to abuse that is the go-to mode of dismissive avoidants when highly triggered).
I appreciate this so much, particularly as a person who does go into shutdown mode when under personal stress. I find I tend to do that with people with whom I have a history of trust issues, and my thinking is that I am protecting myself from further harm; however, I can see where other people would find it manipulative and confusing. You are right that pleading and insistence does not work - at least for me when I am "raising shields." I really appreciate the perspective that you bring to this.
I appreciate your comment. I, too, tend to go into shutdown mode when being emotionally/verbally attacked. It's a coping/defense mechanism.
"I find I tend to do that with people with whom I have a history of trust issues, and my thinking is that I am protecting myself from further harm;:"
THIS, THIS and THIS ... YES.
Well said, Lisa Neal Shaw!
💗
Yes , Lisa , thank you for putting into words! Stay healthy and cheerful - around other people ♡
Completely with y'all. I admit I have "maladaptive coping skills" after being raised by two narcissists. I wish I could do better, but sometimes I feel overwhelmed and go into armadillo mode. Sometimes people aren't trying to be manipulative. Sometimes we're just damaged and trying to protect ourselves. Sorry Dr C.
Lisa, I did the same thing. I wasn't punishing or manipulating him. I was protecting myself from further verbal and emotional abuse.
I was married for thirty years to a man who was in shutdown mode. I learned to give him information in quick sound bites during advertisements because he would simply sit staring straight ahead and unresponsive otherwise. When he waved me away during an advertisement I just gave up trying to communicate with him. We never, ever had conversations. Twenty years after my divorce an old family friend started calling me. We actually had real conversations. Needless to say I fell head over heels in love with the guy because this was something I had never experienced before.
I regularly shut down to protect myself with a toxic narcissist and know I need to move out, away from this person.
Hey Debbie, next Monday I'll up load a video on gray rock which will point out the differences between manipulative shutdown vs deliberate self preservation. Dr. C
My mom passed away and my brother and sister that live less than 10 miles away both said when I called them and said mom passed they both told me I won't be there. I never heard another word. I set up mom's funeral by myself. I am taking care of selling moms house by myself. To keep me mentally healthy I am going to walk away from them and move to another state.
Apparently there could be any number of reasons a person could go into shutdown mode. From toxic behaviors to legitimate reasons. It sounds like it is prudent to understand the person and the situation as best as possible.
Awake, aware and on Team Healthy! Thanks Dr. Carter for another timely video. 2 27 2023
Shutdown mode, is self protection for empaths who are unable to communicate with toxic people or toxic circumstances, it can last for years until the person is strong enough to deal with their pain. Typically it’s not used to abuse especially after you tell the other party that you need your space..🤔
Could it be that the person doesn't like conflict? And continually get met with abrasive behavior. I have seen it both ways,
Depends on who is the abuser and who is the victim. Are people shutting down to abuse and control others? Or are they shutting down to protect themselves from being abused and controlled? I could see how this topic could really confuse victims who never want to do anything wrong.
I agree! I was married to a Narcissist and found that communication was impossible. I relate to this 'shut down' response but only as a sense of helplessness. He never let me finish a sentence let alone express myself to any degree. I hope victims of narcissistic abuse don't feel trampled on by this limited view of communication response.
I agree with you.
@Gemma Dann I agree he needs to clarify this WHOLE podcast….we disappear to alleviate anxiety, stress, and basically for self preservation…I’m pretty sure 99% of us have communicated why we need the space or have given warnings as to stop the toxic behavior or I’m out….✌🏾
@Gemma Dann Gemma I hope you’re wrong…I think he would definitely lose his followers. Knowing what I know now / as it pertains to protecting my positive energy and practicing self love. Do what makes sense to you….Remember we are not sheep, we can take little nuggets and learn….also not saying this doctor is narcissistic but there are some out there who are.
Be kind to each other and learn how to not take abuse from ANYONE….if that means separating oneself weekly, monthly or yearly after you have given “notice”…….do you boo….🤗
@Gemma Dann As an October baby I’m going to watch it again for more clarity…I suspect I’m not going to change my mind, but want to be thorough before I make my next move….
I never want to know what is going on in a narcissist's mind! No emotion or attention is the best way to deal with them.
Yes, I'm the same way now. Don't know. Don't care. It's always going to be my heart thrown against a brick wall. No thanks!
@@susannay.3437 What a perfect choice of words. After a while, I just stay numb. It's perfect. Works for me.
@none of your business - Glad the ‘no emotion / attention’ works for you. Must be a ‘cultural’ thing. It has never worked for the Narcissists I had to deal with - They want to steal your peace as well. And so your silence is just regarded as a sign of weakness and only serves to fuel their narcissism even further. So, instead, I give them what does work viz. A Fearless Exposure of their Lies ... makes these spineless bullies & cowards run with their tail between their legs every time.
Shut down mode is to to avoid arguing or fighting. I had narcissitic boyfriend who intentionally gas light me to shut me down and get me out of the way. I don't want to deal with drama. it is not being munipulative. I am hurt or tired of dealing such a person.
Dr. C You didnt mention the other reasons for shutdown mode; Like depression. I keep my distance when I don't feel up to engaging, even just a little. Sometimes people want to try to make you feel better etc. but there is a time when it's just easier or less stressful to avoid. Period. Thanks for all the videos. I've learned a lot.
I've learned allot too. Maybe he's keeping it short and will do other videos on this. Looking forward to it. If videos are too long I don't even listen to them. I like explanations, short and sweet.
When I feel that I'm beeing acused of something I did not do, or when i feel treated unjustly, when it seems that "everthing I'll say or do can and will be used against me"- then I shut down and need to get away out of that situation/conversation. There are people whom I do not know (yet), how to defend myself against, bc the longer you try to talk it out, the worse it seems to get. No intention to manipulate anyone, its a defense mecanism I do not know how to heal just yet.
I instantly go into shutdown mode when I feel threatened…
I have behaved this way myself. It’s usually due to undue stress or triggers from toxic situations. When friends show concern, I always explain it has nothing to do with them and thank them for their concern. My motives have nothing to do with manipulating people
I go into shit down mode when I have no voice and am the target of persistent toxic criticism , such as I am experiencing at work.
I have no voice or feelings and even when I complete a task it is criticized by all the things that went wrong, that never happened.
I am pleasant and say, hello but I try to keep to myself just for protection as I am searching for another job.
That's a beautiful typo, thanks for the laugh!
I liked it too lol
Can totally relate.
Hope you can get a great new job soon! ❤
"Shit down mode." I can relate.
You have a voice, it's just easier to shut down...that's maladaptive and immature.
I’m exhausted. I’m old and exhausted. I can’t be everyone’s shoulder anymore. I have chosen to minimize time with the social aspect, and enjoy the family aspect more instead. My children and grandchildren are wonderful to me and I enjoy their company. We live in peace and harmony and we respect boundaries. I appreciate this very much. I still love my friends, but they fight with their children or their children are disrespectful or unkind to them. Or they are in unhappy marriages and have unreasonable mates. The world is so full of all of this, so I have withdrawn to be in my “happy place” for my remaining years. To do this, I must limit exposure to whatever degree necessary to maintain my peace of mind and joy. LOL! I learned how easy it was to do during the year-long lockdown. Some good came out of it after all! It made us slow down, think, and be more selective with our lives. ❤️
Your words went right to my heart, Lucy. I am old and exhausted, too. You just make perfect sense to me. May you be blessed!
@@susan3037 May you be blessed too, Susan! ❤️
@@Sweetpea1128 thank you, Lucy.💕
My narc would shut down for days at a time. It was my fault that we weren't getting along. I would ask 'why are you angry?'. She would reply 'because I am angry'. I made the mistake of pleading my case. She repeatedly made a fool of me. These videos have empowered me to see that I wasn't the fool. I had legitimate concerns. I should have been brave enough to think of moving on sooner.
Shut down mode = passive aggressive with narcissists.
My ex was in shutdown mode for most of our 12-year marriage. I dealt with it because we had a young child. I finally was forced to go into self-preservation mode.
I go into shutdown when friends don't have healthy, mature communication techniques.
One friend is- 89. She has no filters and speaks her mind. She has said, "it is MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY 🛣️." She is ALWAYS RIGHT! She, in the past, has been super generous, but ruins her gifts with the criticizing, correcting, chastising and challenging. Not just me... so in the last two years I have slowly limited exposure to protect myself.
The other "close" friend is moving outta state soon so that relationship will be limited to text and calls.(She doesn't write or email). She has BPD so I NEVER know what mood she will be in. (Her disorder is not controlled or monitored with meds and/or psychiatric care. She feels she doesn't "have a problem." She has also NEVER dealt with or moved on from her divorce 28 years ago. Plus she has ADD and some OCD. Again no treatment or even reading books or online support groups pre-Covid.) We currently aren't talking (I'm not to her) because of incident last Sunday. I drove her around for a couple of errands (because her license had expired) and then we went to a thrift store for 50 mins. She looked around for 30mins(ADD) and said she wanted to check phone in 🚗 car. I said I would check out in a few. Which I did. 20 mins later I got in the car and she started spewing!! Yelling about how society was VILE...and then onto her "divorce saga". I had planned for ice 🍦 cream after our GOODWILL outing but lost my appetite. I was in tears on the way home, but didn't react and responded politely when she asked questions. She acted like nothing had happened. She first invited me in after returning, but when I declined, she then said a couple of judgemental statements. I said a couple of sarcastic things that I should have withheld but I was hurt and mad. I was tired of the abuse. She wasn't in a frame of mind to hear anything I wanted to say. I plan to write a note card explaining how I felt if she doesn't try to make up before she leaves.
My point is both of these "friends" are quite toxic FOR ME. I am VERY sensitive and hate discord. I shutdown when I have been hurt or been disappointed and too upset to talk. I am extremely PATIENT but have a breaking point. When a friend continually & consistently makes you feel worse AFTER you see them whether you are happy or sad, anxious or lonely, it might be a sign: TIME TO STAY CALM AND MOVE ON.🤔
I've totally gone into total shut down mode regarding a particular neighbor and it's the healthiest thing I could have done for my own sanity! For 18 years I've tried to be logical with someone who is often impaired by alchohol and denial. I'm totally okay with appearing like the bad guy to onlookers...the lack of drama in my life is worth it!
When dealing with toxic people shut down is the right thing to do, don’t respond and no contact. This is a hard lesson to learn as an extrovert whom believed communication is so important.
I'm uploading a video next Monday describing what you mention here. It is about the need for the gray rock method. Thanks for your thoughts. Dr. C
I sometimes do that with my wife. When I don’t feel safe, to say what she doesn’t want to hear.
We then, both get stuck.
My son did this to me 21 years ago. I have no clue why, I wrote him a letter asking what I did wrong, no response. My ex husband was a narc, my daughter shows traits...im out. I cant deal with this anymore. I've gone no contact with my daughter. Families, I should have stayed single, and had no kids.
Narcissism is found most often in m3n.
@@agardenapart9515 I never even thought of him being a narc...but his actions say oh yeah.
@@agardenapart9515 my daughter is really good at the nasty comments and gaslighting.
I shut down because there’s a lot of negative things I wanted to say, but couldn’t because I don’t want to regret it later. I hated that I couldn’t speak my mind during a confrontation. Probably stemmed from my childhood that I get slapped on the face when I try to defend myself from my mother. I’m working on it now, but it’ll probably be triggered again if the other person reminds me of my mother.
oh man, i get it!
I get it too. ❤️
I got therapy for things like this.
@@josephineananda I'm doing EMDR at the moment. I have great realizations about how my childhood greatly affects my reactions as an adult.
@@aleihs19 Great. I am a big fan of EMDR.
I just want to say that I admit I have gone into shutdown mode at times. Usually it is because there is so much sh** that hits the fan, there is no other way to cope! If this person would be even a little reasonable, the situation would be different.
I get accused of this though, for example for not responding to communication fast enough, and maybe it is some passive-aggression on my part but more saliently it's learned helplessness. What am I supposed to say? What feelings am I supposed to express? What phrasing am I supposed to use to not escalate the situation? And after so long you learn there is no right answer, anything you say is just rolling the dice. I see a lot of us in the live chat and comments saying "is no contact the same thing?" or "am I the bad guy for not responding to the narcissist?" and maybe we can spend another minute on the trust element of the situation? You can't openly communicate with someone you don't trust with the truth about your feelings. Your nervous system going into its trauma response groove is not the same as you being manipulative.
Well said. Thank you!
Well said
Great comment, totally get it!!
Perfectly put! Thank you.
Jen McCoy Loved everything you said!
When there’s no communication and your continuously been given the silent treatment in an obviously abusive situation shutdown is a must! No contact, done.
Very timely Dr C! My oldest son, mother, sister and brother have been doing this for over 3-years....to say 💔 is a serious understatement! I have one son and aunt and uncle who stay connected....i try to resolve it and get accused of all sorts of unture behaviors... 😥
I understand the frustration of being misunderstood-knowledge is power to exit this bad script - you deserve to be the heroine in your own life story!
@@larainehruby1376 am writing about this in a screenplay venue so hope it lands, so many can relate unrequited love
@@karenmoore5075 sorry to hear but you nailed it the behind the back collusion. I retired at 55 from a toxic state environment only to be met with shunning from my own flesh and blood - WHAT?? 🤪🤯
@@JackieSuz917 my mother and siblings and their families cut me off the day we buried my father. No explanation, just no longer invited to gatherings, communicated with or acknowledged. So yes it hurts, it's rude and I've never met my great nieces and nephews. But I make no efforts anymore to connect it's obvious I'm not wanted.
My friend went “shut down” after the termination of a long relationship with a narcissist that nearly devastated!!
I think that"shutting down" is a good response to a narcissist. They are energy vampires and shutting down on them stops them from feeding off your energy.
Some of were selective mutes as children, especially, when growing up in narcissistic families. Until we learn more adaptive behaviors, sometimes, shutting down is the best we can do to protect ourselves. I get it. We can learn alternative behaviors.
Shutdown mode behaviors when you try to communicate with the narcissist:
1. Back turned;
2. Looking down and away or staring fixedly at their computer, papers, etc.
3. Brief phones calls cut short suddenly by: job "time limit"; ordering /receiving food in a restaurant; arriving at their destination in their vehicle, hanging up abruptly while you are speaking-- with the later comment, "I don't know what happened to that call..." (mocking tone).
4. Staring silence followed by abrupt about-face while walking quickly away.
5. Angry accusing outburst if you persist in trying to get a verbal response.
6. Locking themselves in the bedroom and peering out a crack in the door if you knock. If you speak they close the door in your face with no or monosyllabic noises.
7. They keep adding more similar behaviors as time goes on...
Response after asking a polite question about how their day was or how things have been going for them..
1. "The usual."
2. "Nothing exciting."
Ask them where they have been staying or where they have been?
"Here and There."
Show them something of importance to you:
"Do you want me to pretend I'm interested?"
Going no contact is healthy I believe. Abusive people will abuse you of you give them a platform.
Claudia Waid, I agree; No Contact is the best option. I feel bad for individuals who share children or workplaces with narcissists and are compelled to interact.
There is a big difference between "shutting down" and giving someone the cold shoulder or silent treatment to punish them, to me, shutting down was more of a self punishment. I have been diagnosed as a codependent and they as a borderline, believe me I struggle every day not to go into permanent shut down and cloister myself, because honestly, running into another cluster b frightens me. I still find myself not wanting to leave the house because of this fear of losing everything again. I was happy to hear that what Dr. C was talking about, was what I found out by experience, cluster bees will give you the silent treatment, especially when they think you are beating (winning the narrative) them, but it is disconcerting when you see the click-bait tag and go back into thinking your old trained "maybe it's me" modality.
Definitely need this. Thanks Dr Carter❤
Shutting down doesn't make someone a manipulator. In fact, I shut down to keep from being manipulated. I am a communicator. For example, recently I have said directly to a close relative, please stop stalking me on FB, please stop calling me 3 times or more a day. THAT is a woman who wants to manipulate me and my time. Did this person respect my boundaries? No, she completely ignored my request. Sometimes silence is the only way some people will finally listen to me when I say back out of my space, you're crowding me. A big part of communication is listening, which, she was obviously not listening to me at all, making ME feel unworthy to her. It's not so much shutting down, it's more like walking away. I blocked her on FB and haven't answered her calls, oh well. She should have made some attempt to respect my boundaries, that I made several requests about, why would I want to keep engaging with her? I will protect my boundaries that took me years to establish and surround myself with people that want to communicate with me by listening to what I have to say. My mental health is much better since I removed the stress of this woman. Protecting my mental health and boundaries is not manipulative.
The question is, is she a stalker or your ex being in pain because you shut down instead of taking part in important separation talks.
Shutting down was a learned/genetic trait from my mother. I can go forever without speaking to someone that is right next to me. I learned through a lot of self reflection how incredibly selfish and abusive that can be. I now try with everything in me to never revert back to that kind of behavior. There are times I need to be left alone so I can process things in my head so I do not do or say something that is completely irrational, but I do my best to verbalize that.
Shutdown mode is one of the favourite model of behaviour characteristic for covert/vulnerable narc. This mode could be some kind of punishment for a narc's partner which behaviour or actions havenot been desirable and correct according to "highly appreciated opinion" of narc. Dr. Carter, thanks for this up-coming video!
You know, there is the other side to 'shutdown mode'. I don't feel it is an exclusive to narcs. I certainly am the one who wants to talk about a problem, communicate. I want to talk about what is bothering me, without the constant interruption and increasing 'loudness', victim mode and denial that my covert narc is a master at. And, I want to listen to what is going on in him...but that is a realm impossible to reach in a narc.
Anything can set him off be it the size of a bag of garden soil or other issues he takes no responsibility for. When he rages, yes...I go into 'shutdown mode'. I am SO emotionally drained, deflated, frustrated, bitter...that I can't get a word out. I have nothing more to say and frankly, I couldn't give a da*n if my narc husband is sucking lemons because 'poor little victim' mode he lives in.
I've learned how to deal with the frequent tiffs we have (he loves to jump to conclusions) and I can just carry on. It's those sudden explosions that escalate that flatten me. And no, then I'm not very communicative.
Yeah, we have to make our own lives, because you don't have
any kind of life with that person. Just farther and farther away...
I 100% do this but not as punishment but for protection . I’m ok with that
........wow
Right on target with this video.When a HEALTHY person experiences this type of behavior from someone who has emotional problems or some sort of personality disorder this is the way to handle it for sure. The point here is not to allow a sick person to manipulate you, which will overtime cause you to become just as sick as them Thank you Dr. Carter ❤️
Bravo 😊
Thanks doc. Sadly I'm going through this currently. I'm on the receiving end of avoidant behaviour. You gave me great insight towards the problem itself.
Just wanted to thank you for your spot on commentary. I experienced all this with my brother. I am now 61 and he is 60. He was emotionally abusive and manipulative growing up, we became friends for a while and then he shut me down after our mother died. I don't know why! The family insisted that I take action to mend the fence. They never once asked me if I wanted to. I've done everything you have said and I feel pretty good about it right now. Thank you for the confirmation. 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
And that is why I am finished. Garbage in arkansas has convinced me to shut the door, close the chapter and never look back.
This message today... made me cry because it's so validating... my ex did this to me... I kept asking myself "What did I do wrong this time...?" Or "What is going on... why do I have this very uncomfortable feeling..." for months. I got a lot pf one word or at most, a sentence response from him. I looked into myself and did some major introspection, I couldn't conjure any real or appauling changes... other than shutting down myself... (which is not who I am. I'm quite pro-active) Sadly, turns out... his communication was just focused on someone else...
Thank you dr Carter for the invaluable insight into dysfunctional behaviours of abusive people and how to stay on team healthy. I can’t thank you more.
I tend to shutdown when I am stressed or when someone has betrayed my trust. I have to step back an assess the situation. I typically take it even farther by not talking to the person or giving them an explanation. Not to be mean but it's because I just prefer to step away so I don't get hurt again.
Under extreme stress , Some people are not good to listen too , so shutting down them is part of self survival .
Good points and what I've thought. Such an immature way to deal with people. Yes there are occasions to ignore but Dr talking about patterns. I don't deal w/these types anymore. Thanks Dr!!😊
The hardest thing for an empath to do, especially with family members, is to have the courage to realize that you are not the problem. It is an ongoing dynamic. As the youngest sibling, born 8 years behind two sisters, I finally ghosted them and their spouses. I sobered up 12 years ago.
..They never did. Just took their crappy behavior to church to rebrand it as "God's will ". Bible in hand and boot on my neck, they ask each other why I am soon angry. Nuffs enough. It isn't about me. My wife and Recovery family have always been there for me. My so called real family never was. I hope for anyone reading this that you realize that real, quality help is available. Ghosting family is hard, but your full, happy life is at stake. Non negotiable. Never let them back in.
Perhaps "Shut out" is a better descriptor than "Shut down". In my lifelong experience with narcissistic ex's and family, they tend to shut you out-not including you in information, family decisions, planning or responses. When they attack, I shut down in order to process. I think there is a big difference between shutting someone out vs shutting down.
@Angelina H - There most certsinly is a distinction and you described it quite well.
Whoa…. This is my marriage of 30 years. This shut down will sometimes go on for several months at a time. I never knew why or how this would happen. This is a living hell. When there’s NO communication at all. (Not one word) Minutes turn into hours, then days on into weeks then months. This is your spouse your partner. I always thought it was me. Although I knew deep down it wasn’t. I’m the type of person I’ll do anything to keep conflict out of our family. Thank you for sharing all your videos of knowledge and understanding. You help in so many ways. Blessings in your day and joy in all your journeys. 🙏🏻♥️
When I find myself shutting down, it’s in response to the narcissist’s relentless bullying and is isolated to only that person.
My mother does this to avoid any discussion. Deep down she MUST know that it's not ok to gloss over hurting me and never acknowledge that she hurt me, but she also must know on one level that if we DISCUSS it, it will be hard for her to maintain the victim role. So she will not discuss it. She has flung herself up on the cross. My crime? I felt my feelings. She hurt me. I told her. And she is the victim of that. That martyred belief would not withstand a discussion so she cannot and will not have a discussion.
There's a difference between stonewalling silence and shut down. To me instant silence is a a ploy where I've actually begged in tears for the silence to end ( not any more).
Shut-down is my withdrawal now to withdraw and recover from those people in everyday life that do our heads in.
The other video we could use, is if THEY cause the shutdown. The overly aggressive narc might have me running to the hills. I just feel burnt out and tired all the time. I don't want to deal with them, talk to them, and do the " work around" to avoid them. Thanks for all your great videos. They have helped.
I do this to my covert because he will run and hide and wants me to chase him down and insist we talk. That is a feeding ground I do not play on. Grew up in a narc family and had no idea there were the lurking kind/ victims. My family was all overt or malicious. When I met him it felt good not to have all the noise and I got fooled.
I used to run , now I just look right through him and let the silences be.
Me too, I suppose it’s a form of protection, the walls going up and I go numb and stop. I’m not in a relationship, these are strangers and it’s tiresome. Having come from a dysfunctional family I had to learn to talk in a relationship which was great.
Excersizing autonomy is intolerable for those must control you.
@@karenmossbryan7932 you are correct. Autonomy is so important.
"The best way to influence people is to punish them"
I have been punished for a long time.
The older I become, the less, I’m willing to engage with, irrational people. Getting defensive or trying to make sense to an unbalanced individual has no point for me. Nothing nice to say, say nothing. If the person is important to me, I’ll return to the issue after the air has calmed. Seems logical to me, usually works. Maybe different than the behavior you’re discussing. I like to sleep on it. Process and reconsider. Thanks for your sound perspective.
My ex chose the shut down mode as a way of punishing me for making my own decisions. He wanted complete control. My choice could have been anything from a hair trim to visiting a relative across town. If I didn't ask him first, it set off the silent treatment. He would go as long as a year without acknowledging my presence in our home. I escaped 7 yrs ago and have spent that time finding freedom. I can tell the world I'm a free woman now and I didn't have to ask anyone if I could speak my truth!!
I appreciate your messages. shutdown mode is certainly not healthy, but can be caused by past abuse -such as an alcoholic parent during childhood- in an effort to protect oneself.
I so appreciate you showing both sides. For a person like me who has suffered many abuses, has sought to learn and heal without any motivators except myself, it shows objectives to which side of the spectrum you're on. Because of my personality I spend all my time alone except for work. I have not tried to establish outside relationships for several years. I needed time to learn how to heal. Thank you for providing me with insight.
Amen The damage requires TLC . We must learn how to get some healthy space to reflect ,heal and emerge again a healthy loving person. The time is necessary as we learn to love who we are as we did, until the years of disrespect, abject abuse, lies and reprogramming of who we are. For some Animal rights was far away.. The lies, smear campaigns isolate you , you desperately just want to get away from it.
Seriously, it's unbelievable how we experience dysfunctional and unhealthy patterns in our relationship with family and so called friends. "For Such a Time As This" Team Healthy, Yes. On time subject and new video. Thank you Dr. Carter.
I will establish my pace in a healthy direction. Thank you, Dr. Carter.
This is great..... We need more
"I'm healthy and you can't pull me off of that!"
+ selfexàmining, appropriate responses and
- less antagonistic aggressive blameshifting.
Wow described my relationship with my son and I ..I hope to be able to have happy communication with him one day..I will work on my side of this so I will be ready..your videos are so detailed and helpful..thank you
Two years of this exact behavior from my ex. She was the most manipulative person I’ve ever involved myself with. She would create problems or be doing shady things slowly, insidiously and other times abruptly…no matter how I responded or reacted she would play all of these games and then shut down. Her favorite thing to do would be to draw a visual example of something and then implant that in my mind and watch how I interpreted it. If it didn’t get me engaged she would turn the heat up slowly or quickly depending on what her objectives were and the time she would have to accomplish her end game. As days would go by she would continue with this while intermittently reinforcing the negative or positive aspects of her story. Typically she would throw something else in the mix such as letting me know she was going to go spend a weekend in a another town or at her sisters or Moms house. Take in mind I had took this girl back several times after she would insight issues and then I would have her leave and then she would go out partying and sleeping around and whatever else. She would come back and beg me to take her back and that she was going to change. She’d tell me how I was right and she was wrong about everything and that she wants to make it work. I’d take her back and she would go right back to this same behavior and sometimes even worse. Always followed by this shut down mode.
A person can not ever gain a positive in this situation if they think the other person is going to listen or change because of you. These types of people will most likely only change after suffering some kinds of consequences for which a psychic shift must occur in order for them to become willing to change for themselves.
Looking back, I would never spend so much time, energy, and resources on such a person no matter who it is or how much I love them. They suck the life out of you and are dangerous to be involved with.
Omg thats my husband too for 45 yrs. I was so brain washed by marriage vows
Yuuuup…
Narcissist: (email) “Can we talk?”
Me: “Would you mind letting me know what about?”
Narcissist: (insert cricket noises… for eleven days… ELEVEN DAYS)
Finally have the opportunity to ask why she took eleven days and her answer was: “I had to pray about my answer.”
The twilight zone is real.
AlwaysStampinVideos, The Narcissist hoovered you, electronically, to see if you were still under her control and your response indicated that you are indeed still under her control. Once she realized this, she deployed a Silent Treatment to validate her self-worth, assert superiority and garner (thought) fuel.
“I had to pray about my answer.” (her conscious mind uses this lame excuse to justify her behavior but the real reason is control, however, she doesn't know that this is the REAL reason). If you are able to do so, you may want to consider going No Contact (NC).
The Twilight Zone is real!
@@user-vs3dw8mt1d bingo- on some of it but not all. This happened about two years ago so no, Im not “still” under her control- nor was i ever. DRC (if you happen to be a regular listener here on Surviving Narcissism, then you know) says i can respectfully ask questions and not be under someone’s control. You may know some things but you certainly don’t know everything. Keep listening. Keep learning. We’re all growing at different paces. Set your own pace and don’t try to set someone else’s. Best wishes!
@@AlwaysStampinVideos Hello, I have recently joined Dr. C but before that I followed Sam Vaknin, Scott Bassett (Understanding Narcissists), HG Tudor and Lisa Romano. To be very clear, I am not trying to set anyone's pace; I was translating the interaction to help The Reader better understand the mindset of the Narcissist.
Anyone interacting with a Narcissist is under the Narcissist's complete control during the entirety of that interaction, so "respectfully" asking the narcissist questions indicates that you are under control. Why is that? Because, you are providing attention to the Narcissist and this is exactly what the Narcissist wants.
Irrespective of the time of the incident, you most certainly were under control at that time because you responded to the email and that response signifies that you are under control. She pulled the strings and you danced!
Warmest regards!
I had to go no contact with a narcissistic person (my ex-friend), who was coming between my husband and me by striking up inappropriate conversations with my husband thru text conversations behind my back. Please explain the difference between no contact and shutting down someone. I am truly shaken and afraid of being manipulated again by this person.
"conversations" plural? Why did he allow this past one "conversation"?
You have every reason to shut her down to save your marriage.
I do think it is very important to distinguish this mode as outlined from a means of protecting oneself from invasion and abuse by tantrum-throwing emotional parasites who are determined to force you to engage with them about your personal business, or someone else's behind their back, to then launch into abuse, criticism and demands for control, or for using you as their latest and greatest gossip project. Identifying precise topic of non-engagement relative to personal boundaries is the manner by which one can accurately distinguish between the abusive non-engagement and counter-abuse non-engagement. I am inclined therefore to define that any person has the right not to engage if they don't want to do so, for whatever reason! But the key point here is that this goes *both* ways, so we also have the right not to engage with the abusive passive-aggressive non-engagement game. So exercise it.
So much of putting an end to and recovering from borderline and narcissistic abuse comes down to explicitly clarifying just who *really* has what rights. I will go so far as to say that a lot of the resolution of emotional stuff including maladaptive guilt and shame follows once you have this sorted out: driven by intellect, change your behavioural responses, and emotional states will follow.
I go into shutdown mode. At work, at home. I'm working on that, but sometimes, I just CANNOT deal with this crap. I think the shutdown he's talking about is different from what I do.
Another spot on video from Dr. Les💓. It’s really hard to not grovel, but necessary.
I first came across this dynamic with a group of online 'friends'. It confused the hell out of me for a long time - and yes, I did at one point think that it was me, that I was trying to communicate with them too much. I'm still confused by it because I still don't know if it was really me who was the problem, or if it was them, and I even wonder if I had the traits of narcissism because of it. Not communicating or going through long periods of time without communicating (mainly online, not in offline life) has become a coping mechanism with me, now as a result of the stress that it caused me. It makes me afraid of trying to make friends with people online because of what happened with those folks. In retrospect, it's a small thing compared to what happens to people in their families, and such, but it makes me question myself a lot. However, it /is/ better to have had this experience with online 'friends' as it has made me more aware of narcissism and I can spot it more easily in people in interactions offline, and gives me a way to be less affected by it.
I usually shut down around a narc…and I do it because I know they are looking for a reaction and I don’t want to give it to them.
I know one and she would gloat and say, “I know this is hurting you and I can go on forever and you know this.” She only stopped when she got her way or an apology
I spend at least 85% of my waking hours in grey rock mode...I'm certain there are many different perceptions that can and are made, however, it's just a means of survival. I gave up giving a rip about anyone's perception long ago...that isn't my load to carry.
Shutting down is self preservation. I don't do it to manipulate. I do it to avoid the manipulation around me. I didn't shut down to my dog. I am not shut down to my guitar or my books or my ideas. I'm not shut down to my journals, even though I know other people read those journals. People are too hard, too exhausting. I have to focus on healing and finding my way forward. The good intentions of my family are negated by their mental illness, ignorance, their childhoods, their belief systems. I can't engage with people who interrupt and argue every time I speak, who stalk me online. I can't shut down enough.
Thank you for explaining this. I have so many immediate family members that do this for many reasons. Its beyond frustrating.
In my view it also depends on how the conversation went: in my case, I tried to get my point across, then I tried some more...all I got back was:' Are you out of your mind?' 'Who do you think you are?' 'Everybody thinks this way, how can you be different?'...and so on. So I shut down.
That sounds exactly like the kind of “one-way “ (verbally abusive ) “conversations that I experience with my husband who is frequently angry, critical and insulting