Poor Ingrid Pitt. She came up with those movements herself, because she thought this would be interesting or show some sort of drama in Solow's death. She later said she had no idea just how godawful it was going to look on television.
I struggle to describe that woman's outfit, it's like, if Hillary Clinton lead a synth-band. I'm not even phased by the monster, that's just normal, acceptable schlock.
Watched this serial today - couldn't get enough of this moment along with the awful cliffhanger endings. BUT...I didn't think this story was that bad as a whole - it was never boring and had some redeeming features. Davison channeled the Third Doctor nicely in his frustration with the military machine and the story has a poignant edge to it in that the doctor wanted to show tegan her future and it rather depressingly resembles the present (nuclear blocs facing off with each other). 6/10.
Well that's a stretch - I think you're applying your own politics there somehow. Why should Davison automatically side with the people he physically resembles, when the Reptiles are from earth too. They're hardly invaders, and the doctor had met previous moderate silurians before. They're both savages to in comaprison to him deep down as he is from a more advanced civilisation. Would you rather the doctor was a Donald Trump-like paranoid warmonger than a more rational conscientious being?
@@sadako24 It's the late-period Fifth Doctor's inability to deal with these sort of mass life-or-death crises that, ultimately, leads Tegan to walk away. So, depending on whether you were a fan of that particular crew, it's a good thing or a bad thing. (For the record, I felt that Five, Tegan and Turlough were pretty much the definitive 80s TARDIS crew and always enjoyed Janet Fielding's performances).
He did pick the poorest story from this series for his reason to cancel the show, but had he watched The Five Doctors, he might have changed his mind. This was the man who bought in Neighbours remember, total crap that somehow 18 million people liked in 1988, but who would even go near an old episode now.
@@JBexplores I think he viewed the series as beyond redemption, which wasn't entirely wide of the mark. Season 18 was the last good year the show had, and it went massively over-budget.
I could add Michael Grade hated the show and was determined to destroy it, when in reality he could have made it an excellent sci fi series as the technology was advancing all the time. Instead he decided to waste money on rubbish like Eastenders.
mesmoland Dr Who really should have been killed off in 1984, rather than to limp on for another 5 years with collapsing ratings, terrible special effects and hopeless stories.
This is how I described it in a Facebook post about this story... Before I flashback to the Myrka *or that woman who did that bizarre form of interplanetary voguing* I see Turlough saying, "They're all dead, you know..." Then The Doctor delivers that fantastic scene ender! *_"There should have been another way..."_*
When the doctor tests the machine, I always think "Look, the Mykra! Where? Gotcha!" Can you imagine what the MST3K guys would do to this serial? It would comedy gold!
Before UFC and in the 70s and 80s karate masters were viewed as superhuman capable of breaking 5 bricks with 1 punch,jumping 15 foot in the air .....and they had dim mak. Obviously this loathsome actress thought to make her character interesting she should play a karate master
See, I might be persuaded to agree with you if it weren't for John Nathan-Turner's titanic fucking ego and the way he rammed it down everyone's throat by slagging off previous producers and saying he could do so much better.
@227060 ...they shout when theres trouble or when they are excited and Eccelston didn't shout much compared to Tennant and smith too shouts less so no they don't all shout. on top of that there is SO much information clearly laying out that RTD wrote series 1 KNOWING Eccelston was leaving and it becomes so clear when you watch it back, he is trying to reconnect with humanity, to come back to life and in the end he is literally reborn as a new man who does just that
@LegoDaleks yeah theydid have similarities for continuity. like a strong moral compass love of travelling, a desire to travel with someone, oh wait thats what the new ones have too. Time Lord personalities are emant to be different in each incarnation and ontop of everthing else, you forget its not like nothing has happened betwwen the movie and 2005. the 8th doctor has had all of his adventures and fought in afriggin war. and you wonder how...
@227060 ...and as another note to Amy offering herself to the Doctor, in the 1990s novels the Doctor's companion Bernice Summerfield also offers herself to the Doctor and he actually accepts too. so you see the series was always moving into this directions. stuff like thats even alludded to in the even less adult Big finish plays. it only seems like a huge jump bcos stylisitcally the developments have happened in non-tv media hence btwn 89 and 05 it looks like a bigger jump than it actually is
@227060 ...on top of that Eccelston's doctor, while admitedly not where the Daleks are concerned, genrally took a more passive approuch than the more pro-active Tennant or Smith. in most of his stories he either encourages/inspires someone else to save the day or allowes events to run their course eg he watched Cassandra die and allowed it to happen, he didn't do anything to help her, but nor did he do anything directly to kill her he just teleported her there...
@LegoDaleks he specifically says in the 2005 episode Aliens of London that the TARDIS can receive tv transmissions and there was an unsepcified period of time during which he lived with the Tyler houshold after his regenration whcih consequently meant he likely picked some stuff up early on, or more accurately he lived in the TARDIS which had landed on thier estate. whatsmore DW hasn't been dumbed down altho with reality tv ALL tv has been dumbed down generally...
Your actually pretty close. It's the same actors who played dobbins inside this suit. The paint was still wet when they were inside and the fumes gassed them.
The key difference was that Love and Monsters *ended* with the ridiculous Abzorbaloff and an allusion to a paving slab giving blowjobs. Warriors of the Deep ended with the Doctor surveying the pile of dead bodies around him and lamenting, "there should have been another way." One of Davison's finest moments, hands down.
@227060 ...even on a fundamental level he has somewhat changed. characters, even the Doctor grow and change. i've already cited how mccoy and colin baker activly sought out evil unlike their predecessors who were either given missions or soughted out problems when they arose. you say Eccelston and Tennant would bash a dalek...but did they? no. the mere absence of them doing that proves that they wouldn't do that. given they each faced Daleks at least twice...
This is Doctor Who's NO NOT THE BEES NOT THE BEES AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA", moment, this scence is why I can't quite decide. if this episode is worse than Revenge of the Cybermen. Also what the fricking hell was Johnny Bryne thinking when he wrote the Myrka? Did he really think the BBC would able to make something like that look even remotely real? The wasted money on the Myrka could of been spent of anything else.
WLHamontree Good point but on the other hand hear you have Peter Davidson acting his socks off trying so hard to make this dirge work, while everyone else in WoD is either crap or passible.
***** I guess that is true, its so un-DW to have everyone killed off and for morality to be classed as secondary to weapons. Now i think about it they have nearly the same plot and structure. With the bad guys being immune to the goodies weapons with no explanation given. But atleast hear the humans don't know about the Sea Devils while the Vogans fought a big war with the Cybermen and yet some how on the planet of gold use non-gold bullets against them and some how the Cybermen are not killed why on said planet. Its such a mess.
***** Very true and clearly Saward is trying to re-do Earthshock (which a lot of episodes that he edited to this too), with his army fetish, for tough guys in uniforms with guns, and a base under siege, the 2nd in command turns out to be a traitor and is shot by the monsters. Lots of gun fights in cramped hall ways, the monsters plan to take the base and use it to destroy man kind. Difference is Earhshock as well as other dark episodes like Genesis, or Satan Pit was well written and good and you cared when someone died because they where. Warriors everyone is 1 dimensional so you barely notice the commander or that girl with the non-specific European accent dies.
@LegoDaleks oh bashing the TARDIS with amallet...yeah they do....so? thats part of making the thing work when its christ knows how old and been through at least 2 wars and meant to be manned by 6 people on top of basically cobbling the thing together over the years. altho Smith has yet to use a TARDIS mallet. again Eccelston rarely shouted that he is the Doctor and when Tennant and Smith did it it was a perfectly valid intimidatory tactic....
@227060 from the cabinet war rooms onto a Dalek ship in the exact same time period, but it is very tricky for him. whatsmore in your specific example he was surprised to end up in Pompeii because he was aiming for Rome. While creativly interesting it is actually makes less sense for a regeneration, a natural process, to occur differently almost each time. if its the same that makes more biological sense. And OF COURSE it should be on CBBC...
When Doctor Who went bad. This is so cheap and embarassing it looked awful 30 years ago. Ingrid Pitt looks like a member of Duran Duran and you can see bits fall off The Myrka.
@227060 ....whatsmore Victory has dialogue which is nothing like what Tennant would say really and while i agree as far as Smith's dialogue in Series 5 goes it is the weakest bear in mind it was early days for him and for the writers of the eleventh doctor. there is an 11th Doctor novel which was written beforeseries 5 and its clearly meant to be Tennant bcos they had no idea what Smith's doctor would be like. ontop of that Eccelston and Tennant are miles apart
@LegoDaleks spiritually its the same show. stylistically its a show for modern times, however the show was always that as far as its budget allowed reflecting issues and styles of the day. however the difference between tv from the 60s, 70s and 80s while significant, is not nearly as staggering as the difference between tv thsoe eras to tv of today. hence the uncomfortable shift. however. if you look at spin off material from between 1989 and 2005...
@227060 ..., we dunno WHY he conceals his name, we dunno how exactly he regeneratd, we dunno how he ended the time war or what specifically he did in it aside from a few hints and obviously we know he ended it, then there is the mystery of his crib, what precisly River Song has to do with him and how and why he reveals his name to her. also most of the doctor's mystique apart from his name and family was GONE with the War Games
@LegoDaleks once more have you actually watched the new series. 9, 10 and 11's personalities despite having some degreee of crossover are extremly different. and for gods sake you cannot compare the doctors and say personalitywise that 1 of them is the odd 1 out, the entire point is that they are different from 1 another. its like...ok, this is a weird analogy but lsiten. its like your fingers, they are all different sizes so there cannot be an odd 1 out but they are all part of the same hand...
@227060 ...no that stuff didn't happen in the old days, but equally in the 1960s you didn't have the Doctor roaming around specifically at times seeking out to undo intergalatic villainy like in the 1980s. the show was always chanigng and the Amy thing is an example of a style change inkeeping with modern TV which is liberal about that stuff, in fact it was arguably too strict back then eg the fifth Doctor wasn't usually allowed to even platonically touch any of his companions except Adric...
@227060 ...have you been reading what i said, there were not only books, comics, and audio plays featuring the 7th doctor set between Survival and the movie and featuring the 8th dr set btwn the movie and Rose but in Rose and The End fo the world (literally the first 2 epsiodes) we discover there was a TIME WAR its mentioned like almost every story, for gods sake even if you dismiss the spin off stuff, to say NOTHING happened between the movie and 2005 is stupid...
Supposedly this is the scene which killed Doctor Who. As the story's told, Michael Grade was mortified by the Myrka costume. No mention of Ingrid Pitt's "karate". Yet in retrospect the Myrka looks no worse than many another monster of the era, and its Pitt's ad-lib we remember.
@227060 ...equally Ecceslton and Smith are opposite to Tennant. Eccelston had survivors guilt and was damged inside and while this did crop up with Tennant at times it was hardly his default like with Eccelston and with Smith he has left even more of that survivors guilt behind him (altho it evidently is still there as there is an abundence of evidence to suggest he doesn't like himself all that much). Eccelston's age slower steady approuch to stuff...
@227060 ...was tempered by Tennant's youth and faster higher energy approuch. whatsmore Eccelston is a character trying to reconnect with life whereas Tennant, as part of his character development, HAS conencted with life and is enjoying it, he revels in humanity and his own more humanistic side, whereas Smith while also enjoying life and suportive of humans is much less human and more awkard. this is the different incarnations spilling in...
@227060 ....thsi was i suppose out of some fear that through simply touching them it'd allude to romance or something, which basically means on the flipside he made the Doctor look to the same stupid eyes who would've come to that conclusion had the Doctor touched the female companions as tho there was something going on btwn him and Adric. of course there wasn't but the strictness can screw themselves over. this loosened up further eg Ace...
@227060 ....while physical continuity such as the existence of certain companions can be debated, stylistically there is a very clear continuity running through it. whatsmore the hell is wrong with quoting tv, not that he doesn't quote literature as well eg he quotes Shakespeare, Dickens, Christie and Rowling frequently. He cannot control the TARDIS perfectly at all, he perhaps a somewhat greater control than in previous years eg he can materialise...
@227060 ...about the Doctor has been revealed in the new series, go om, give me examples. do you mean his history pre-time war. ok we've seen his crib and he said he used to be a dad. and the latter can't really be said to count since we knew that from day 1. we've learned new stuff about Time Lord physiology, but that can't be said to be explicitly about the Doctor. we learn that he ran from the untempered schism when he was 8 years old and visited the medusa cascade at age 100. thats it
@227060 ...if by magic wand you mean sonic screwdriver what plot holes do they solve with the sonic. no, actually give me examples beyond open locked doors. the novel stuff is ambiguously canonical which means its perfectly valid so long as the tv show doesn't outright contradict things. Wikipedia and TARDIS wiki ALL state that its relation is unknown, not definitvly canonical or non-canonical. of course it didn't need to end 1989 but RTD won the pitch fair and square...
@@sadako24 The original script and the novelisation show how much potential it had. But unfortunately, the rushed production made everyone look amateurish and the decision to make the sets lit by floodlights just highlighted how small the budget the BBC gave them really was. The scriptwriter wanted the sea base to be dark, decayed; rusting. They could have used any number of abandoned industrial buildings in the UK in the 80s to achieve that look (Red Dwarf did it in the early 90s) and it would have obscured the cheapness of the costumes and props. Instead some twit decided it needed to look bright and futuristic.
@@DomWeasel Production & scriptwise it's just a bad story and a bad idea all round. We already had two well-told Pertwee stories about the Silurians and the Sea Devils that both had just the conclusion they needed. There really was no good reason to contrive a needless follow-up a decade later. If the story was just a basic action story then maybe fixing its production & lighting faults would be enough. But it also seems to want to say something profound about war and the Doctor's character, and the script couldn't be more poorly suited to the task.
@@sadako24 It's another 'Base under Siege' story, true, and Doctor Who had already done plenty of those. But I thought it managed to sell its message pretty well. Following after the Americans 'The Day After' people were coming around to the point that you can't win a nuclear war and the same year this story came out (eleven months later) the British brought out 'Threads' which had the same premise; the war occurs and everybody dies. Considering the story ends with almost all the humans dead and the Doctor and his companions knees deep in reptile corpses, I thought it made that point well. 'There should have been another way.' is the highlight of the episode and perhaps a wonderful summation of all the bloodshed the Doctor's been responsible for. And Five would find himself in this scenario more than once despite his attempts to play peacemaker.
@@DomWeasel The difference for me is that Threads didn't feel like it was being preachy or pointing a recriminating finger at anyone. It didn't really go into who was the worse aggressor in the war, where the British government were at fault, it just depicted what would happen and what local government would be forced to do. It showed rather than told. Warriors tries to both preach and point the finger and that's where it gets really confused. The Doctor is presented as the moral voice here, but it's his blinkered, pacifist approach which arguably gets everyone killed more than anything else does. At the very least most of the humans wouldn't have died if he'd told them about the Hexacromite sooner. He also points the recriminating finger at the humans who are just fighting to stay alive, when it's actually the Silurians who are the ones most determined to press the button. The messaging to my eyes is just horrible, and making the Doctor the voice of its message makes him seem at best a negligent idiot, and at worst a vindictive misanthrope who doesn't want to save the humans. Something I would rather never have seen done to the character.
@227060 ...i mean the goddam writing is on the wall Ace is gone and the TARDIS interior is different int he movie so OBVIOUSLY something happened and then in 2005 the TARDIS has not only changed again but so has the Doctor, so obviously stuff has happened. and the doctor isn't an enigma anymore? fuck me youmust've bedn happy when the show ended in 89 and you didn't have to meet the doctor's family. for starters, we still dunno what his name is...
@227060 ...Tennant's dialogue cotnained larger speechs required to be spoken at quick fire speed, with lots of misdirection and tangents, Eccelston's dialogue was simpler, slower more to the point. neither is better or worse, just different. I mean Troughton didn't talk or have apersonality like Hartnell's, Pertwee's personality wasn't much like Davison's, McGann's personality isn't anything like Colin Baker's. there is some degree of crossover eg 5+10 r young and energetic 2+7 a manipulators
@227060 ...whats more, on a somewhat unrelated topic "A cartoon with sexual undercurrents shouldn't be on any channel" where the hell have you been, have you seen the Simpsons, Futurama, Family Guy, American Dad, South park, the Cleaveland Show, many many animes, ANY of the DC comics animated Universe tv shows? they ALL to different degrees can contain sexual undercurrents. in fact while the 80s character of Ace had more...
If she just booted it, that'd be one thing. It's the bizarre arm movements and the doo-doo-dee-doo! music that really caps it off. Bloody hilarious.
still one of the most inexplicable things that has ever happened in television
I love how even the monster looks confused after she dies.
Poor Ingrid Pitt. She came up with those movements herself, because she thought this would be interesting or show some sort of drama in Solow's death. She later said she had no idea just how godawful it was going to look on television.
Ken George Jones At least it was better than how godawful the Myrka was.
It looks like she is having a stroke
The Myrka was fine compared to that rubber bulkhead...
Omg this something from school play lol.
Drogen!
I struggle to describe that woman's outfit, it's like, if Hillary Clinton lead a synth-band.
I'm not even phased by the monster, that's just normal, acceptable schlock.
Imagine if Hillary did that to Trump during the presidential debate XD
I swear one of the Lieutenants in the story look like they stole Michael Jackson's outfit from Thriller.
Lmao that is the perfect description actually
😅😅
She can have the monster suicided. XD
I think the fact that you could just turn your back on it and walk very slowly away, and it still couldn't catch you does not help.
Whatever this is, it rules. giant lizard vs. karate weirdo. 10/10. television needs more of this
Right there Peter thought "OK. I'm out"
The scene that almost killed Dr Who entirely.
There were some excellent stories after "The Five Doctors" that it would have been a real shame to have lost, some of them true classics.
At the time, it looked Goddam Awful. N ow, however, you can view it in an appreciative new light, as unintentionally hilarious.
@@ftumschk what, like the Happiness Patrol?
That music really solds it out
Everybody was Kung Fu fightin'
Those Cats were fast as lightnin'
+Ralf Horris well more like the Myrka was slow as a snailwet caught up with the redshirts tailsthis episode was an epic fail.
I refuse to believe that absolutely everybody was Kung-fu fighting, that just doesn't sound plausible.
In fact, it was a little bit frightening...
The Myrca was a little bit frightening! 😊
Its a miracle they even managed to do this with the production problems this serial had
Why did they even bother though? The story was an irredeemable disgrace.
@@sadako24
How was it a disgrace?
@@Aqib2 In every sense of the word.
@@sadako24
Obviously
It might have been less embarrassing if they'd scrapped the Myrka altogether & dimmed the lights to create more suspense. Oh well.
Watched this serial today - couldn't get enough of this moment along with the awful cliffhanger endings. BUT...I didn't think this story was that bad as a whole - it was never boring and had some redeeming features. Davison channeled the Third Doctor nicely in his frustration with the military machine and the story has a poignant edge to it in that the doctor wanted to show tegan her future and it rather depressingly resembles the present (nuclear blocs facing off with each other). 6/10.
Well that's a stretch - I think you're applying your own politics there somehow. Why should Davison automatically side with the people he physically resembles, when the Reptiles are from earth too. They're hardly invaders, and the doctor had met previous moderate silurians before. They're both savages to in comaprison to him deep down as he is from a more advanced civilisation. Would you rather the doctor was a Donald Trump-like paranoid warmonger than a more rational conscientious being?
@@sadako24 It's the late-period Fifth Doctor's inability to deal with these sort of mass life-or-death crises that, ultimately, leads Tegan to walk away. So, depending on whether you were a fan of that particular crew, it's a good thing or a bad thing. (For the record, I felt that Five, Tegan and Turlough were pretty much the definitive 80s TARDIS crew and always enjoyed Janet Fielding's performances).
Grimdark and Doctor Who don't go well together.
“There should have been another way”
GOD THAT NEARLY GAVE ME A HEART ATTACK SO SCARY OMFG
I almost died laughing
It was so scary she started screaming before it even electrocuted her!
Fine Art.
Like many Russians before her, she died trying to answer the age old question: How much vodka does it take to become a kung fu master?
This is just amazing.
If you want to know the exact moment in which Classic Doctor Who’s fate was sealed then you’ll find it right here
I don't care how bad the monster looks, I care that someone looked at it and approved it when the glue and paint hadn't even dried.
Oh i hate myself for agreeing with Michael Grade on this one
@@sadako24 than we wouldn't have had Caves of Androzani
He did pick the poorest story from this series for his reason to cancel the show, but had he watched The Five Doctors, he might have changed his mind. This was the man who bought in Neighbours remember, total crap that somehow 18 million people liked in 1988, but who would even go near an old episode now.
Grade hated the show for its crappiness despite the fact he could’ve given it a better budget
@@JBexplores I think he viewed the series as beyond redemption, which wasn't entirely wide of the mark. Season 18 was the last good year the show had, and it went massively over-budget.
Top 10 anime battles.
I could add Michael Grade hated the show and was determined to destroy it, when in reality he could have made it an excellent sci fi series as the technology was advancing all the time. Instead he decided to waste money on rubbish like Eastenders.
This is why I fucking love Doctor Who 0:36
Sea Devils: LOOK AT MY HORSE, MY HORSE IS AMAZING!!
The scene that almost killed Doctor Who.
No 'almost' about it.... :(
Probably the lowest point in Dr.Who ever.
mesmoland Dr Who really should have been killed off in 1984, rather than to limp on for another 5 years with collapsing ratings, terrible special effects and hopeless stories.
mesmoland oh, there are so many other low points in Doctor Poo's history
gusbaker4u but this is the one I keep coming back to, just to give a little lift to the day .
mesmoland The whole show went awful in the eighties.
Well it got better in its last year or two. You can't go wrong with Curse of Fenrick.
@LegoDaleks "There should've been another way" indeed.
Looks like she's trying to dance with it.
This is how I described it in a Facebook post about this story...
Before I flashback to the Myrka *or that woman who did that bizarre form of interplanetary voguing* I see Turlough saying, "They're all dead, you know..."
Then The Doctor delivers that fantastic scene ender!
*_"There should have been another way..."_*
srsly tho I've watched this 15 times in a row and I can't stop laughing, HALP
By far the best scene in one of the worst episodes of Doctor Who.
What the hell was that?! XD
And moving swiftly on.......😂😂
Colin Baker was great. The stories he was in were the problem. Check out The Holy Terror or Jubilee on Big Finish.
His costume didn't help, but Colin Baker himself wasn't a fan of it. Ironically, he wanted the outfit that Christopher Eccleston ended up with.
The Holy terror has a talking penguin with a new York accent.
@@lesigh1749 And?
This is why Michael Grade wanted Doctor Who cancelled.
Honestly, I can't blame him.
You could if Doctor Who had been given more money and time to work with.
What, am I the only one that likes this story!?
Indeed. This was the point where the show had sunk to doing its own crappy fanfiction that had no business being aired.
When the doctor tests the machine, I always think "Look, the Mykra! Where? Gotcha!" Can you imagine what the MST3K guys would do to this serial? It would comedy gold!
I don't quite understand how a raging monster is going to be scared by a load of karate moves?
I wouldn't call it slowly shambling around the base "raging". It looks pretty tame
Before UFC and in the 70s and 80s karate masters were viewed as superhuman capable of breaking 5 bricks with 1 punch,jumping 15 foot in the air .....and they had dim mak.
Obviously this loathsome actress thought to make her character interesting she should play a karate master
Fuck it, that was awesome! Yes it looked like garbage but at least they tried something.
See, I might be persuaded to agree with you if it weren't for John Nathan-Turner's titanic fucking ego and the way he rammed it down everyone's throat by slagging off previous producers and saying he could do so much better.
@227060 ...they shout when theres trouble or when they are excited and Eccelston didn't shout much compared to Tennant and smith too shouts less so no they don't all shout. on top of that there is SO much information clearly laying out that RTD wrote series 1 KNOWING Eccelston was leaving and it becomes so clear when you watch it back, he is trying to reconnect with humanity, to come back to life and in the end he is literally reborn as a new man who does just that
@LegoDaleks yes indeed it was in 1963. and the 2005 series continued it
That's so funny i love it.
All that wax on-wax off was for nothing
@LegoDaleks yeah theydid have similarities for continuity. like a strong moral compass love of travelling, a desire to travel with someone, oh wait thats what the new ones have too. Time Lord personalities are emant to be different in each incarnation and ontop of everthing else, you forget its not like nothing has happened betwwen the movie and 2005. the 8th doctor has had all of his adventures and fought in afriggin war. and you wonder how...
@227060 ...and as another note to Amy offering herself to the Doctor, in the 1990s novels the Doctor's companion Bernice Summerfield also offers herself to the Doctor and he actually accepts too. so you see the series was always moving into this directions. stuff like thats even alludded to in the even less adult Big finish plays. it only seems like a huge jump bcos stylisitcally the developments have happened in non-tv media hence btwn 89 and 05 it looks like a bigger jump than it actually is
I read the Doctor had borh Tegan and Nissa
@227060 ...on top of that Eccelston's doctor, while admitedly not where the Daleks are concerned, genrally took a more passive approuch than the more pro-active Tennant or Smith. in most of his stories he either encourages/inspires someone else to save the day or allowes events to run their course eg he watched Cassandra die and allowed it to happen, he didn't do anything to help her, but nor did he do anything directly to kill her he just teleported her there...
@LegoDaleks he specifically says in the 2005 episode Aliens of London that the TARDIS can receive tv transmissions and there was an unsepcified period of time during which he lived with the Tyler houshold after his regenration whcih consequently meant he likely picked some stuff up early on, or more accurately he lived in the TARDIS which had landed on thier estate. whatsmore DW hasn't been dumbed down altho with reality tv ALL tv has been dumbed down generally...
The Myrka was actually Dobbin from Rentaghost spray painted green
Your actually pretty close. It's the same actors who played dobbins inside this suit. The paint was still wet when they were inside and the fumes gassed them.
This is to Doctor Who what the Shockmaster was to WWE.
And people complained that the absorbaloff was stupid???
The key difference was that Love and Monsters *ended* with the ridiculous Abzorbaloff and an allusion to a paving slab giving blowjobs. Warriors of the Deep ended with the Doctor surveying the pile of dead bodies around him and lamenting, "there should have been another way." One of Davison's finest moments, hands down.
PetersonZF Who wouldn't want blowjob slab? XD
@227060 ...even on a fundamental level he has somewhat changed. characters, even the Doctor grow and change. i've already cited how mccoy and colin baker activly sought out evil unlike their predecessors who were either given missions or soughted out problems when they arose. you say Eccelston and Tennant would bash a dalek...but did they? no. the mere absence of them doing that proves that they wouldn't do that. given they each faced Daleks at least twice...
This is Doctor Who's NO NOT THE BEES NOT THE BEES AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA", moment, this scence is why I can't quite decide. if this episode is worse than Revenge of the Cybermen. Also what the fricking hell was Johnny Bryne thinking when he wrote the Myrka? Did he really think the BBC would able to make something like that look even remotely real? The wasted money on the Myrka could of been spent of anything else.
WLHamontree Good point but on the other hand hear you have Peter Davidson acting his socks off trying so hard to make this dirge work, while everyone else in WoD is either crap or passible.
***** I guess that is true, its so un-DW to have everyone killed off and for morality to be classed as secondary to weapons. Now i think about it they have nearly the same plot and structure. With the bad guys being immune to the goodies weapons with no explanation given. But atleast hear the humans don't know about the Sea Devils while the Vogans fought a big war with the Cybermen and yet some how on the planet of gold use non-gold bullets against them and some how the Cybermen are not killed why on said planet. Its such a mess.
***** Very true and clearly Saward is trying to re-do Earthshock (which a lot of episodes that he edited to this too), with his army fetish, for tough guys in uniforms with guns, and a base under siege, the 2nd in command turns out to be a traitor and is shot by the monsters. Lots of gun fights in cramped hall ways, the monsters plan to take the base and use it to destroy man kind. Difference is Earhshock as well as other dark episodes like Genesis, or Satan Pit was well written and good and you cared when someone died because they where. Warriors everyone is 1 dimensional so you barely notice the commander or that girl with the non-specific European accent dies.
@LegoDaleks oh bashing the TARDIS with amallet...yeah they do....so? thats part of making the thing work when its christ knows how old and been through at least 2 wars and meant to be manned by 6 people on top of basically cobbling the thing together over the years. altho Smith has yet to use a TARDIS mallet. again Eccelston rarely shouted that he is the Doctor and when Tennant and Smith did it it was a perfectly valid intimidatory tactic....
The stuff of nightmares
@227060 from the cabinet war rooms onto a Dalek ship in the exact same time period, but it is very tricky for him. whatsmore in your specific example he was surprised to end up in Pompeii because he was aiming for Rome. While creativly interesting it is actually makes less sense for a regeneration, a natural process, to occur differently almost each time. if its the same that makes more biological sense. And OF COURSE it should be on CBBC...
When Doctor Who went bad. This is so cheap and embarassing it looked awful 30 years ago. Ingrid Pitt looks like a member of Duran Duran and you can see bits fall off The Myrka.
Wow actually no need of a Sonic Screwdriver there...
The Doctor didn't have a sonic screwdriver at this point. JNT thought it was lazy, so he blew it up in "The Visitation"
@227060 ....whatsmore Victory has dialogue which is nothing like what Tennant would say really and while i agree as far as Smith's dialogue in Series 5 goes it is the weakest bear in mind it was early days for him and for the writers of the eleventh doctor. there is an 11th Doctor novel which was written beforeseries 5 and its clearly meant to be Tennant bcos they had no idea what Smith's doctor would be like. ontop of that Eccelston and Tennant are miles apart
@LegoDaleks spiritually its the same show. stylistically its a show for modern times, however the show was always that as far as its budget allowed reflecting issues and styles of the day. however the difference between tv from the 60s, 70s and 80s while significant, is not nearly as staggering as the difference between tv thsoe eras to tv of today. hence the uncomfortable shift. however. if you look at spin off material from between 1989 and 2005...
What the fuck just happened?
They always use this god damn scene to back up "Doctor Who was rubbish in the 80's"
Y’all my name Myrka 👀👀👀
@227060 ..., we dunno WHY he conceals his name, we dunno how exactly he regeneratd, we dunno how he ended the time war or what specifically he did in it aside from a few hints and obviously we know he ended it, then there is the mystery of his crib, what precisly River Song has to do with him and how and why he reveals his name to her. also most of the doctor's mystique apart from his name and family was GONE with the War Games
This comment aged badly
I'M CRYING WTF XD
@LegoDaleks once more have you actually watched the new series. 9, 10 and 11's personalities despite having some degreee of crossover are extremly different. and for gods sake you cannot compare the doctors and say personalitywise that 1 of them is the odd 1 out, the entire point is that they are different from 1 another. its like...ok, this is a weird analogy but lsiten. its like your fingers, they are all different sizes so there cannot be an odd 1 out but they are all part of the same hand...
@227060 ...no that stuff didn't happen in the old days, but equally in the 1960s you didn't have the Doctor roaming around specifically at times seeking out to undo intergalatic villainy like in the 1980s. the show was always chanigng and the Amy thing is an example of a style change inkeeping with modern TV which is liberal about that stuff, in fact it was arguably too strict back then eg the fifth Doctor wasn't usually allowed to even platonically touch any of his companions except Adric...
@227060 ...have you been reading what i said, there were not only books, comics, and audio plays featuring the 7th doctor set between Survival and the movie and featuring the 8th dr set btwn the movie and Rose but in Rose and The End fo the world (literally the first 2 epsiodes) we discover there was a TIME WAR its mentioned like almost every story, for gods sake even if you dismiss the spin off stuff, to say NOTHING happened between the movie and 2005 is stupid...
Supposedly this is the scene which killed Doctor Who. As the story's told, Michael Grade was mortified by the Myrka costume. No mention of Ingrid Pitt's "karate". Yet in retrospect the Myrka looks no worse than many another monster of the era, and its Pitt's ad-lib we remember.
I'd have cancelled the show over this shite.
@227060 ...equally Ecceslton and Smith are opposite to Tennant. Eccelston had survivors guilt and was damged inside and while this did crop up with Tennant at times it was hardly his default like with Eccelston and with Smith he has left even more of that survivors guilt behind him (altho it evidently is still there as there is an abundence of evidence to suggest he doesn't like himself all that much). Eccelston's age slower steady approuch to stuff...
"Time for German chop-suey! Hi-yahh!"
@227060 ...was tempered by Tennant's youth and faster higher energy approuch. whatsmore Eccelston is a character trying to reconnect with life whereas Tennant, as part of his character development, HAS conencted with life and is enjoying it, he revels in humanity and his own more humanistic side, whereas Smith while also enjoying life and suportive of humans is much less human and more awkard. this is the different incarnations spilling in...
80s Who at its finest! 🤪
@LegoDaleks Bull. 2005+ Dr Who is truly doctor who
@227060 ....thsi was i suppose out of some fear that through simply touching them it'd allude to romance or something, which basically means on the flipside he made the Doctor look to the same stupid eyes who would've come to that conclusion had the Doctor touched the female companions as tho there was something going on btwn him and Adric. of course there wasn't but the strictness can screw themselves over. this loosened up further eg Ace...
@227060 ....while physical continuity such as the existence of certain companions can be debated, stylistically there is a very clear continuity running through it. whatsmore the hell is wrong with quoting tv, not that he doesn't quote literature as well eg he quotes Shakespeare, Dickens, Christie and Rowling frequently. He cannot control the TARDIS perfectly at all, he perhaps a somewhat greater control than in previous years eg he can materialise...
@227060 ...about the Doctor has been revealed in the new series, go om, give me examples. do you mean his history pre-time war. ok we've seen his crib and he said he used to be a dad. and the latter can't really be said to count since we knew that from day 1. we've learned new stuff about Time Lord physiology, but that can't be said to be explicitly about the Doctor. we learn that he ran from the untempered schism when he was 8 years old and visited the medusa cascade at age 100. thats it
The Myrka was played by the same actor as Harriet Hyde
0:38😄😆😅🤣😂
@227060 ...if by magic wand you mean sonic screwdriver what plot holes do they solve with the sonic. no, actually give me examples beyond open locked doors. the novel stuff is ambiguously canonical which means its perfectly valid so long as the tv show doesn't outright contradict things. Wikipedia and TARDIS wiki ALL state that its relation is unknown, not definitvly canonical or non-canonical. of course it didn't need to end 1989 but RTD won the pitch fair and square...
0:38 🤣🤣🤣
I can't believe this design almost got doctor who cancelled
This story makes me wish the show was cancelled sooner.
@@sadako24
The original script and the novelisation show how much potential it had. But unfortunately, the rushed production made everyone look amateurish and the decision to make the sets lit by floodlights just highlighted how small the budget the BBC gave them really was.
The scriptwriter wanted the sea base to be dark, decayed; rusting. They could have used any number of abandoned industrial buildings in the UK in the 80s to achieve that look (Red Dwarf did it in the early 90s) and it would have obscured the cheapness of the costumes and props. Instead some twit decided it needed to look bright and futuristic.
@@DomWeasel Production & scriptwise it's just a bad story and a bad idea all round. We already had two well-told Pertwee stories about the Silurians and the Sea Devils that both had just the conclusion they needed. There really was no good reason to contrive a needless follow-up a decade later.
If the story was just a basic action story then maybe fixing its production & lighting faults would be enough. But it also seems to want to say something profound about war and the Doctor's character, and the script couldn't be more poorly suited to the task.
@@sadako24
It's another 'Base under Siege' story, true, and Doctor Who had already done plenty of those.
But I thought it managed to sell its message pretty well. Following after the Americans 'The Day After' people were coming around to the point that you can't win a nuclear war and the same year this story came out (eleven months later) the British brought out 'Threads' which had the same premise; the war occurs and everybody dies.
Considering the story ends with almost all the humans dead and the Doctor and his companions knees deep in reptile corpses, I thought it made that point well. 'There should have been another way.' is the highlight of the episode and perhaps a wonderful summation of all the bloodshed the Doctor's been responsible for. And Five would find himself in this scenario more than once despite his attempts to play peacemaker.
@@DomWeasel The difference for me is that Threads didn't feel like it was being preachy or pointing a recriminating finger at anyone. It didn't really go into who was the worse aggressor in the war, where the British government were at fault, it just depicted what would happen and what local government would be forced to do. It showed rather than told.
Warriors tries to both preach and point the finger and that's where it gets really confused. The Doctor is presented as the moral voice here, but it's his blinkered, pacifist approach which arguably gets everyone killed more than anything else does. At the very least most of the humans wouldn't have died if he'd told them about the Hexacromite sooner.
He also points the recriminating finger at the humans who are just fighting to stay alive, when it's actually the Silurians who are the ones most determined to press the button. The messaging to my eyes is just horrible, and making the Doctor the voice of its message makes him seem at best a negligent idiot, and at worst a vindictive misanthrope who doesn't want to save the humans.
Something I would rather never have seen done to the character.
@LegoDaleks Midnight.
As much as fans want to believe that nothing in the show's history was ever as bad as the current era, this atrocious story proves otherwise.
I have this episode on DVD and even the pamphlet inside the box talks about how rubbish it is, pretty much insulting me for having bought it 😂
GYMKATA!!!
"look!"
The fact that they kept the Hong Kong fooey scene in it beggars belief.did they have no shame
It looks like Dusty the Dinosaur
I think all NuWho episodes should be like this! This is gold!
Most of them are not much better. Kung-Fu movie turned Space Soap Opera.
@227060 ...i mean the goddam writing is on the wall Ace is gone and the TARDIS interior is different int he movie so OBVIOUSLY something happened and then in 2005 the TARDIS has not only changed again but so has the Doctor, so obviously stuff has happened. and the doctor isn't an enigma anymore? fuck me youmust've bedn happy when the show ended in 89 and you didn't have to meet the doctor's family. for starters, we still dunno what his name is...
I think ingrid Pitt could have taken the Myrca with a round house kick!
She had a black belt in real life, but it looked like she was trying to dance with the Myrka.
Thats Polish Karate for you alright!
You know what, I would've cancelled the show too from seeing stuff like this.
Shame they didn't cancel it before this travesty could air.
Dear god.
1970's Kamen Rider shows have better Monsters than this.
Would you believe this part wasn't included in Terrance Dicks' novelization of this story?
it would have brought the whole thing together, like a peed on carpet in the center of a room
Although the Myrka would return to fight the 6th Doctor and Charles Darwin in a Big Finish audio.
@@Jedi_SpartanThe Mykra works when you don’t have to look at it
Still better than the Gorn from Arena
True, but this was produced almost 20 years afterwards.
A very low point in the classic series, indeed.
It honestly makes me wish the cancellation had happened sooner.
@227060 ...Tennant's dialogue cotnained larger speechs required to be spoken at quick fire speed, with lots of misdirection and tangents, Eccelston's dialogue was simpler, slower more to the point. neither is better or worse, just different. I mean Troughton didn't talk or have apersonality like Hartnell's, Pertwee's personality wasn't much like Davison's, McGann's personality isn't anything like Colin Baker's. there is some degree of crossover eg 5+10 r young and energetic 2+7 a manipulators
based
@227060 ...whats more, on a somewhat unrelated topic "A cartoon with sexual undercurrents shouldn't be on any channel" where the hell have you been, have you seen the Simpsons, Futurama, Family Guy, American Dad, South park, the Cleaveland Show, many many animes, ANY of the DC comics animated Universe tv shows? they ALL to different degrees can contain sexual undercurrents. in fact while the 80s character of Ace had more...