Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan [Podcast]
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- Опубліковано 31 тра 2017
- After the weirdness of The Motion Picture, we're happy to settle into a film that honors the original series with believable characters and new uniforms! The Wrath of Khan!
The podcast is continuing its examination of Star Trek! Having finished TNG, we are moving on to cover a small selection of Original Series episodes. Join us as we discuss the crew and captain that started it all!
Is Kirk the best captain? Is The City on the Edge of Forever the best episode in the series? Who'd win in a fight, Spock or Scotty? All this and more!
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Music by Ninichi: @ninichimusic and ninichimusic.com
Artwork by David MaxMax: / davidmaxmax
You know that episode of Seinfeld called “The Barber”, where George is hired to work on the “Pensky File”? George has no idea what that file contains, or what he's supposed to do with it. I think that sums up this UA-cam channel! I don't have a dedicated format or specific focus, but I try to cover a general swath of gaming and entertainment topics.
Thanks for watching! - Розваги
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I always got the feeling that Spock died to save Kirk more than the ship, and that makes the man tears so much more powerful! 😭
Needs of the MANY! :)
I love the music to Wrath of Khan; the opening gives me goosebumps every time. Probably a close second to the theme of the new movies as my favourite Trek music.
I'm excited to hear you talk about Search for Spock which I feel is a very underappreciated film, it definitely has some great moments.
Kyle Barratt James Horner's score is awesome on this film
Everyone's waiting for Search for Spock, which I find... fascinating.
Genesisfx was the same as transporter light glitter.
Music in the nebula scene was awesome.
Made me rethink my pectorals.
Unforgettable movie.
The only reason the kobyashi maru scene exists is because word got out spock was going to die
I think you guys did a good job here but missed the point about Spock fixing the engines. It's not REALLY about the fact that he's a Vulcan and that he is the only one that can doi it because he will last longer. If that's the case, it's subtle. What it's about is that humans don't have the sense of logic that he has. They would not think to go in the chamber with all the radiation. Fear and emotion cloud their judgment. Spock's mind is logical.. and clear-thinking. he knows that if NO ONE goes in there to fix it, everyone will die. But no one WOULD go in there because of the radiation.. it's like asking a person to cut off an arm or leg, they just would not think to do it. But being a Vulcan with the idea that the "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one" is why HE is the only one that could fix it. That is the whole point of the scene and you guys were fire shots around that point
Yes, it's Spock's logic that is guiding him. It's a good scene because, IMO, it ties his logical half with his "human" half in a way that works on both accounts. He gets to logically fix the problem and make an emotional sacrifice to save his friends.
The plot whole about the Alpha Ceti solar system is a HUGE and obvious one when watching. Starfleet not having navigation charts, or the Reliant's computer system not having the historic data on the system brings the competence of Starfleet in question so much that they appear to be just depending on luck to operate.
I guess I'll be that guy and argue it's not really a "plot hole" as much as it's lazy writing that only functions to get Khan back. Tough to buy that they simply count planets to identify which is which.
@@thepenskyfile The late, great Vonda McIntyre's excellent novelization addresses that. As the Reliant was on its way to the Ceti Alpha system, Chekov compared what Reliant was seeing to the info gathered by an unmanned probe that visited the system 60 years before. He noted that the probe cataloged 20 planets, yet they were seeing only 19. Official records of Khan and his people being exiled on the fifth planet had been expunged by Starfleet, for fear of Khan somehow getting free again. After 15 years, Chekov had forgotten the name of the system where Khan had been left. Chekov chalked up the missing planet to probe error, sloppy archiving, or the system going though an alteration since the probe's visit (which Terrell dismissed as unlikely). It wasn't until he saw the belt buckle with "SS Botany Bay" on it that Chekov suddenly realized where they actually were.
The genesis machine represented a new start for Khan and his followers. Ceti Alpha 5 was a hell hole and genesis was their opportunity to start afresh. This got lost in Khan's failure to kill Kirk and Kirk's provocations caused Khan to lose focus. Like his friend said "We have genesis". They were supposed to leave but Khan's obsession, as displayed by his continual quotations from Moby Dick, caused the genesis machine to be set aside.
Good point!
Great analysis guys!
Thanks very much!
That has made my Friday at work a lot more exciting :)
Its almost midnight here in Melbourne :D
Haha. Just say you're from the future.
My only two criticisms of this film. How did starfleet not notice a missing planet and why does Scotty bring his injured nephew to the bridge instead of sickbay?
Just rub some whisky on it!
Great analysis guys! A very enjoyable listen, and great insight! Thanks!
Thanks Dale!
Blood in the show…. Patterns of Force when Kirk and Spock are being whipped. Along the same lines, Gamesters of Triskelion when he gets whipped
Love this movie. Great review.
"Gazpacho soup!" Rimmer's last word's from "Red Dwarf." As to the death of Spock -- not counting fixing the sink in the disco room -- people actually cried in the theater -- so for what it's worth it was a big deal for the crowd and after the motionless picture, this was a real gut punch to a lot of fans. No, I wasn't crying when I saw it in the theater -- but I remember seeing several people doing that and did find it a bit sad. This film seems to be over-homaged in the ST universe and copied ad nausea in many ways. . I even quoted at work to an appropriate response. Great review as always!
As I previously bloviated on, I finally got that full-time gig. I immediately signed on the most premium-rate on Patreon, and want to express that in truth we couldn't really ever repay your thoroughness and insight. i wish I could give you more...afterall, you have provided me with weeks of content (and cogent analysis) for free. I'm happy to be a Patreon, I'm walking away with a sweetheart deal! :)
Thanks Vincent! Very kind. Your support makes the show possible and it's much appreciated.
Genesis is the reason why Spock dies because they have to leave reliant so fast , plus the idea is terrifying if u drop where there is life
Interesting you noted that Spock's death scene comes off as missing something, like you know he's going to come back. In the original cut of the film, he dies with no hint of him coming back, and received negative reviews in pre screening, so they changed it. I've never seen that original cut, I'm not sure if it's even available in any capacity, but it'd be curious to see if it still has that same sense.
I've got the Pensky file
My only criticism of 'T.W.O.K' is that it goes by a bit too quickly and I would have liked at least 10 more minutes in the running time. There's not enough time to just savour the experience of watching the film. The makers didn't want (and probably couldn't afford) Jerry Goldsmith to return, because they wanted to avoid reminders of 'ST-TMP'. They wanted as much of a clean break from the first film as possible (beyond the re-use of expensive effects footage and sets). James Horner really delivered for such a young composer, although I prefer Goldsmith's more 'neutral/cerebral' approach to Star Trek. Personally, I think 'The Voyage Home' mined its specific potential more successfully (for the kind of story and tone), but 'TWOK' is overall the best of the original 6 movies and still the best of all the ST movies.
I enjoy the quick pace. Doesn't drag at all, even if it maybe ends too soon?
The special effects are from Industrial Light & Magic. The same ppl who did the special effects from Star Wars. How can you say the special effects in Star Trek II. Aren't good?
At the time it was released I think pretty much everyone was impressed with the effects. And it was done by ILM. Maybe because we are in the well established CG era we are critiquing it a bit too harshly.
Great film that basically rebooted the series from TMP, but not without a few flaws - personally I prefer the final movie The Undiscovered Country with the original crew which was also done by Nicholas Meyer. I feel like that movie did even better with the characters and was an awesome sendoff.
I'm curious to hear what you and Clay have to say about The Search for Spock coming up next, that's personally a favorite of mine that I hold up side by side with Wrath of Khan despite how much cheesier it gets.
Everyone seems to like Search for Spock. I think the episode might get a lot of conversations going about how people view it.
Belated point (and not meant in a mean spirited way about the film). Who are Kahn's followers? In 'Space Seed' his followers were all adults, but in 'T.W.O.K.' they all seem far too young to be either the same people (Joachim is clearly the oldest). They're also too old to be children born to his followers on Ceti Alpha IV. It's just a strange issue with continuity.
Genetically altered to grow up faster?
Or perhaps non-speaking extras of that age range were cheaper to hire?
I would say definitely genetically augmented to mature faster, and it may be me reading into it but Khan's second in-command command seemed to have a kind of childlike nature.
In Khan's Warrior Utopia, helpless children that need to be defended just slow you down. Some of the others did appear like they could have been from the original crew, notably the one that leans forward when they hit the nebula and knocks into Khan's chair and gets a dirty look.
Also since this was only 10 years, maybe some of the crew were altered to age particularly well? And likely Khan kept his favourites and left the others to the elements.
The rest of the original crew may have died due to the very harsh conditions combined with having been cryogenically frozen, Khan may have been very ruthless in how he rationed food to the new generation and withheld it from the older weakened one , additionally the new kids would have acclimated better to the planet having grown up there.
Just my theory!
the issue of contamination on Ceti Alpha 5 is null and void. You are over thinking Carol's intent in her statement. She is stressing the unethical aspect of her experiment as your partner pointed out. It has nothing to do with a Brundle situation. Genesis may have been a Kirk lure, but from a practical point of view it would allow him to colonize his own planet far off known space to live in peace and apart from the Federation/Romulans/Klingons. Not to mention that Khan was bred with a warrior mentality. Savek was positioned to perhaps take over the Spock role for future installments imo. Toss up for her or David to assume the first officer. Additionally I think she does show some character growth in how she learns to appreciate her mentor's acceptance of Kirk and friends.
Not a perfect movie but a damn good one. What flaws it has I tend to give a pass because they were working with a rushed, patched together script and a reduced budget. Given those limitations, and the fact Shatner and Montalban were both leads in TV series at that time, I like to think of TWOK as the greatest TV movie ever made... that happened to be released in theaters. ;-)
Good call! The best episode of TJ Hooker.
Ha! Exactly! If only Kirk had slid across the hood of the Enterprise.
It be something if Spock 🖖 died during the first battle. 😪
Oyyy!! I'm sorry, but this just more CLICK-BAIT!!