Star Trek: The Motion Picture [Podcast]
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- We've made it to the movies! The Motion Picture is our reward, with its sprawling alien vistas and beige colors. How does it hold up?
The podcast is continuing its examination of Star Trek! Having finished TNG, we are moving on to cover a small selection of Original Series episodes. Join us as we discuss the crew and captain that started it all!
Is Kirk the best captain? Is The City on the Edge of Forever the best episode in the series? Who'd win in a fight, Spock or Scotty? All this and more!
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Music by Ninichi: @ninichimusic and ninichimusic.com
Artwork by David MaxMax: / davidmaxmax
You know that episode of Seinfeld called “The Barber”, where George is hired to work on the “Pensky File”? George has no idea what that file contains, or what he's supposed to do with it. I think that sums up this UA-cam channel! I don't have a dedicated format or specific focus, but I try to cover a general swath of gaming and entertainment topics.
Thanks for watching!
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![Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan [Podcast]](/img/tr.png)
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Here's another justification for the Enterprise fly-by. You get a very good scale of the Enterprise. You know how big the shuttle is compared to Kirk and Scotty, you know how big the Enterprise is compared to the shuttle. So, later when the Enterprise is a tiny speck going by V'Ger, that plays into how big V'Ger is. You know how huge it is.
I think Mr.Roddenberry was trying to comment on what it means to be human. Spock's journey was toward his humanity. The Ilia probe was wrestling with her memories of being "human" and V'ger's ultimate journey was to merge with a human. I agree that this movie was slow and not very dramatic, but his emphasis was "What it means to be human".
This is probably my third favourite TOS movie. I've probably watched it more than any Trek film other than Khan. When I got an HDTV, I put on this movie first. When I installed a sound system on my TV, I put on this movie When a friend bought an 80" HDTV, I brought this movie over to test it out. Every time I was enthralled by the effects. I've got the Directors cut which I think adds 13 seconds of special effects, including one shot that FINALLY shows you what V'Ger looks like from more than 3 inches away. The biggest difference is the opening on Vulcan where the wide shots actually match the set.
The thing to remember about this movie more than anything else is that this is the earliest known example of fanservice known to man. Fans of the original series waited a decade of writing letters and watching reruns before the movie came out. Huge amounts of the movie are thank yous to the fans who made it possible. The most obvious, of course, is the meeting on the rec deck where Bjo Trimble and numerous other Trekkies who were responsible for the movie existing got a chance to show up on screen and interact with the crew of the Enterprise.
Similarly the slow Scotty/Kirk visually inspect the redesigned ship is *entirely* a chance for the fans, used to seeing a plastic ship on a string be shaken by a hand with a green filter, to watch their favourite ship slowly re-revealed to them on the big screen with a big impressive musical sting to go with it. As for the slow reveal through the dock, Wes you're a Boston guy, you've surely gone to the USS Constitution. At first you're walking down that street and just getting peeks of the ship through the fence, and then you finally get to the dock and the entire ship is revealed to it in all its glory. It's exciting and frankly it and the departure scene gets me every single time.
Everybody talks about how this was "inspired" by Star Wars but clearly Bob Wise wanted it visually to be closer to 2001 (which I found the music was far closer to than the John Williams score). The coolness of the designs, the slow approaches of ships all the time, really felt more like Discovery One than the Millenium Falcon. Unfortunately the characterization matched the style of the effects and that's the style that I think disappointed the fans the most: once the ship left dock they all seemed to lose their personalities. It was a radical shift from the way the show approached stories, and Nick Meyer radically changed it again the next movie.
This was the 70s Star Trek. As Plinkett says in his Final Frontier commentary, it was the 70s and everything was weird.
Great points. I think I appreciate TMP more as the fanservice that it is. If you remember that the show had been off the air for 10 years, everything that happens in the film (outside the terrible character work) makes more sense.
This movie has the feel of a 50s/60s epic historical drama. This is one aspect of the film that I will always enjoy and what gives it rewatch value for me personally.
I've actually been looking forward to you guys doing this movie for a while, because I think I have a theory about it that might clear up a lot of the confusion surrounding its meandering plot and nonsensical structure. I'm far from an expert, but I strongly suspect that a Freudian psychoanalyst would have had a field day with Roddenberry and his attachment to this idea of a machine gaining sentience and returning to its point of origin.
V'ger's quest to "merge with its creator" mirrors Freud's assertion that all men ultimately wish to return to their mother's womb, in order to solve the puzzle of their identity and desires... Kinda out there, I know. But hear me out: We in society today are supposedly denied that opportunity for fulfillment thanks to social taboos that are embodied and enforced by the father, leaving us frustrated and metaphorically "castrated".
I feel like this theory is backed up by some of the dialogue and repeated use of imagery in the film. As Clay pointed out, there is an orifice that strongly resembles an anus (or perhaps a cervix?) that Spock passes through on his way deeper into V'ger, but even further beyond that, there is another opening that shows up in the same sequence that that looks strikingly vaginal in shape. Once inside, Spock sees images of planets, moons, and finally a giant woman (Ilia); possible representations of the answers to the questions: "Who am I?" and "What do I truly want?", mysteries seen by Freud as the major driving forces of our psyches.
We see plenty of other long, dialogueless sequences of the Enterprise journeying deeper into large, womb-like caverns, and at one point in the movie, the direct comparison of V'ger to a confused child is made by Spock: "It knows only that it needs. But like so many of us, it does not know what". The climax of the film involving Decker and Ilia speaks for itself, and finally, just for fun; does Kirk's gambit of withholding information that V'ger can use to "gain access" to its creator place him in the symbolic role of "denying father", with V'ger's ensuing tantrum a representation of its metaphorical "castration"? While I know that some of these references are more oblique than others, I'd definitely say that there's enough material here to form the basis for such an interpretation of the movie, even if I personally don't advocate its message.
So there you have it. Roddenberry came up with this story because he wanted to bone his mom. You heard it here first. But in all seriousness, whether it was intentional or not (and I'd be very reluctant to give Roddenberry that much credit in saying that it was), I think that the real story of this movie is told visually, rather than narratively. It would explain this movie's maddeningly slow pace, and predilection toward sequences that are without diagloue and are far too long.
I doubt this is what you expected to see when you decided to flick through the comments, but here it is.
Well, I guess I have to pin this comment to the top. :)
The Pensky File Well, thanks. I know it's really out there, and I'm not advocating Freudianism in any way, like I said. It just seems to me like Roddenberry may have had some stuff going on. :P
No wonder V'Ger as Ilia is talking about his "Kirk unit"
Why is this film so joyless?
I feel like I've read "The Hitch-hiker's Guide To The Galaxy" and learnt that the answer is forty-two, but I still don't know what the question actually means.
The Klingons firing torpedoes into the cloud was incredibly stupid.
"Serves you right! SO THERE" I thought
I started my Star Trek journey with TNG, so was a bit freaked out by the music and all those long slow shots of the revamped Enterprise made me feel I was watching Encounter at Farpoint, and they were trying to say "Look at this new ship, isn't it COOL? I was bored, tbh.
The uniforms are dull, and I can't work out anyone's rank.
Yes, Kirk is an arsehole. Decker knows more about the ship, but Kirk pretty much says "piss off, you young puppy, I've had years more experience than you" and demotes him. PRICK!
When the transporters weren't working, I actually said "Tuesday" out loud.
I guess the transporter accident was solely to eliminate Sonak, but who cares?
McCoy looks like he's been clubbing with Mr T..
I thought the whole Spock trying to achieve Kolinahr thing was interesting, (I like monk -Spock), then _he and he alone_ hears this probe, and buggers off back to Starfleet, I don't understand why.
He stalks onto the bridge with all the hauteur and dress sense of Dracula and proceeds to turn up his Vulcan nose at everyone, what the fuck?
Ilia: Yeah, I guess we need a mouthpiece for V'ger, but what a boring character.
"My oath of celibacy is on record Captain. May I assume my duties?"
Just so Kirk doesn't get any ideas above his station....
I don't go for bald women, myself.
None of the crew has much to say, either. And that grieves me.
And then Spock does the whole 2001 thing, I actually said "Oh my God, it's full of stars!" at that point.
After the mind meld with V'ger, Spock's like "I get it all now" and then he Kirk and Decker are all on a first name basis. Again, HUH?
So Decker and Ilia merge with V''ger and I felt like saying "Hooray, it's over"
V'ger is way too similar to the whale probe in my opinion.
But the saddest thing about this movie is the plot was far more interesting in "The Changeling"
"Where Nomad has gone before", that's a new one on me and SO TRUE.
Only 2 from me, Wes.
On to better things!
Thanks, as always, for the comment.
Great, unique, fresh review. It has inspired me :)
---Steve
I saw 'TMP' in the cinema in 1980 (European release). If you think it's turgid on DVD/VHS, you have no idea what it was like in a dark theater with nothing else to look at except the green fire exit signs and the light fixtures (the experience is burned into my brain and nervous system). This was a major pop culture event at the time and the pre-release build-up was saturation level on TV. The positives are the very expensive special effects, the Goldsmith score and Robert Wise's best attempts to give the movie a firm basis in appropriate tone (as well as Wise being so experienced that he could get the film completed at all). The negatives are the thin, stretched script, some stiff blocking and line readings, the characters overshadowed by the hardware and the fact that the film feels cold and mechanical (I don't mean sober grandeur). I respect the fact that there is almost no violence in the movie though. A lot of casual ST fans didn't return until 'The Voyage Home'.
Goldsmith lost the Oscar to George Delerue's 'A Little Romance'. This was a genuine shock at the time and might be due to A) Goldsmith refusing an Oscar nomination for 'Alien' which put the Academy's nose out of joint B) Goldsmith having won the Oscar in 1976 for 'The Omen'.
At least he won something.
The directors cut only completes effects that were not completed like vgers exterior. I think it cuts scenes that were put into the TV cut
Small trims were made by the director's cut. The major scenes, like "This simple feeling is beyond V'ger's comprehension" and "Logic and knowledge are not enough" were kept intact. The original theatrical cut omits ALL the scenes shared by the TV version and director's cut.
The first time I watched this movie was on Netflix, and I legitimately thought that there was some sort of error with the lack of video during the overture, I also felt like falling asleep after probably not even five minutes of the actual movie. Definitely a cure for insomnia, but despite all of its flaws with how the characters are handled and everything else there are still some interesting ideas at the heart of the movie and so I do end up thinking about the movie from time to time - so that must be worth something, right?
haha, I thought my Blu-Ray was defective! I actually skipped the overture via the scene select menu.
@@thepenskyfile Doesn't the Director's Cut have a star field during the overture?
The score is truly epic. Ilia’s love theme, the Klingon attack in the intro. I kinda wish Star Trek went back to the epic music & scale. A better script and editing could do wonders. Enough time has passed, maybe do a remake of a classic episode like ‘Where No Man Has Gone Before’.
I always wondered if Spock knew Sonak well? ( Officer killed in the transporter accident)
I don't know how to describe my feelings about this one. I like it and, like Clay, I love to put it on at bedtime...the music is so good to fall asleep to. Once every few years I actually watch it and it's boring and fun at the same time. My favorite nickname is Star Trek- The Slow Motion Picture.
Also a good name. Still love Where Nomad Has Gone Before. That's the deep cut. :)
Like you guys said, not what I'd call a good movie but a 'fascinating' one. I like the arc Spock takes, from cold Vulcan to finally realizing there's value to his human half. That's something I missed for a long time. He is a different character after this. Watch how chill and monk-like he is from TWOK onward (aside from that little death/reboot in the middle). In the sixth movie he says something about logic being the beginning of wisdom not the end. I don't think pre-V'ger Spock would've ever said that.
Spock definitely becomes more monk-like, although I kind of attribute it to the aging process: as Kirk deals with getting older in a more human way, Spock becomes even more calm and sage-like. Weirdly Spock seems slightly more emotional later on, it's just that he seems able to be mindful of it to a better degree.
My favorite of all Trek movies. 👍
I agree with all the comments - but I still watch the movie at times (not all at once!).
It's a very intriguing movie. So strange and unexpected.
"This isn't like the original series" I agree, but it's much more like The Cage. There are those of us who think The Cage/Menagerie was one of the best episodes, and ST1 was one of the best movies. Slower, more challenging, more philosophical, metaphorical, subtle. With that said, it's not that tight or clean of a movie for reasons said often enough.
The problem with TMP is that it was a response to Star Wars that drew it's inspiration from 2001: A Space Odyssey. If you've seen both films you'll know what I'm talking about and why it doesn't work.
After hearing Clay on the 70's sci-fi look, you guys should do "Battle Beyond the Stars."
The first Star Trek movie is a good movie only when you consider it
cinematically. It surely looks great, and it had nice special effects for the time.
But the entertainment value gets a grade of only C+.
Nice review. I would back off saying things like "why spock so cold" or "what is going on" after saying things like "I slept through parts". Watching a movie is a big part of reviewing it.
I'm old enough to remember the release of this movie...I remember that the last TOS episode I watched before I saw this movie was ALL OUR YESTERDAYS from season 3.
I don't remember being bothered at the time by any story or character issues (I was 16). I remember being amazed at what they called a "refit" of the TV Enterprise into what we saw on the screen and wondering how that would have worked in real life. And thinking boy did they make some amazing technical advances in just 10 years.
I remember hating the new Klingons and wondering why did they change them.
Overall though, looking back, a very mediocre effort. I would say the world building in this movie is pretty amazing. They create a world that feels like a realistic (sort of) future. Unfortunately, not an entertaining one.
This movie has a lot of great moments - but barely a plot to connect them. Compare with _The Room_, which is overflowing with plots and subplots and personal arcs - and zero great moments. _ST:TMP_ is almost a compilation, such that if you view the scenes in random order, it's nearly as entertaining.
But _The Room_ can only be enjoyed ironically. So given the choice between spectacle-heavy and plot-heavy, I'd choose the spectacle every time.
But I consider The Room to be simply one giant, great moment!
Which version of TMP are you reviewing?
The planet Vulcan stuff looks pretty sweet. That stuff looks awesome. This is also the first time we ever see Star Fleet Command too. The movie is simply too sssssllllllllloooooooowwwwww.
It is slow. However, it's definitely one of the more unique Trek films. I give it credit for that, even if it's a bad movie.
I don't think its a bad film...just a boring one. It's too thin on plot. Love the score.
Don't mean to hog the comments section, but I'll clarify that the Robert Wise 'Director's Edition' fixes many technical issues with the special effects, beefs up the sound effects and allows some originally planned effects sequences to finally appear. There is very, very little change to the story/characters. I also never got the often used 'God' suggestion about Vger. It's an incredibly advanced machine/A.I. made by even more advanced machine A.I.'s. It's an SF technology concept. It clearly cannot be in any way a metaphor for the Hebrew/Christian God as it has no meaningful parallel. It's a real stretch to imply one. There is a real issue about the machine planet thinking a crude basic 20th Century space probe would be worthy of out-fitting with a colossal space craft and immense infrastructure. It would be just a little more significant than discarded trash to them.
Even the deleted scenes are mostly useless. The longest one (I think) involves Sulu awkwardly hitting on Ilia.
Do you all have plans to do the TNG or Kelvin movies? I would LOVE that
We did TNG. Kelvin should be done over the course of DS9.
The TNG movies? Where!
Playlist on the main channel page.
Let's get to DS9! I've had enough TOS! You and Clay rock btw.
Eventually! Thanks very much.
Things about Star Trek that most people remember or know (even if they are not fans):
flipping open a communicator,
firing phasers,
and "beam me up Scotty!" For some insane reason *none of these things were included* in the first Star Trek motion picture!
The Transporters were broken, and they were used briefly, but that is a Cornerstone of what Star Trek is, as is the flip open Communicator which they redesigned for this movie for some insane reason to be like a wristwatch. And there were no phaser guns or phasers fired from the ship.
Boring, and seemingly very un-Trek-like.
So of course in the next movie, they were _very aware_ and did all of these things in spades _as well as_ telling a good story.
I don't care how much involvement Gene Roddenberry had, the people that held the purse-strings should have said "you can tell whatever wacko utopian story you want, but you got to have Transporters, you've got to have phaser guns, and for the love of God you *have to have Captain Kirk flipping open the communicator* !"
If it wasn't for the Enterprise itself, a person could be forgiven for not even recognizing this is a Star Trek movie since they had squeezed almost all of it out.
Even with some reused special effects footage, Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan is such a return to form even going back to the flip open communicators, ditching the pajamas, and of course phasers and Transporters Galore!
Does anyone out there know of S.B.T.C
STMP had an interesting concept, but it was like watching a movie version of TOS S2 episode "The Changeling" Rather disappointing for a Star Trek fan with its long drawn out story. Agreed I didn't understand why all the characters seemed so angry. After the massive success of Star Wars It felt that Paramount Pictures panicked to rush a sci fi story to the big screen. Hey you have to give G. Rod credit. He saw an opening and took it. Robert Wise a great director never watched an episode of the show and that had something to do with the lack of continuity. Great special effects and soundtrack probably the only thing that kept the movie slightly interesting .Everything that made TOS so iconic and dare I say, "fascinating" they didn't do. I guess it's watchable, but it wouldn't be my first choice.
It's low on my list.
Yay!
Mr spock will you please sit down
Spock smash!
Yes a Blunt and a few Steel Reserves 211. 😏
It's about 2 1/2 years after the 5 year mission somewhere after what would be after the time of the animated series.
Kirk is a flawed person.
Setup, setup, setup...punchline?