Tournament of Filler? - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Super #17 Arc Part 1
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- Опубліковано 4 лют 2024
- The Earth is back, Planet Tsufru is conveniently not mentioned, and everyone is at peace. That means it's time for a tournament! It's a standalone episode in a serialized series, but does that automatically mean it's not important? Is this filler in a series without filler? Let's find out!
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I know this is Dragon Ball Dissection, and not Dragon Ball Plot Synopsis, but I'm disappointed that you didn't mention the way inwhich Pan drops out of the tournament, which is that she fakes having a stomach ache. To me this is best gag of the episode, and the main thing I always remembered it for, because it has that 'like father like granddaughter' dynamic, by dusting off that old gag of Mr. Satan faking stomach aches to get out of having to fight that the Cell Saga and Bojack movie kept using all the time. It was a great joke because it's a callback that long time veiwers would get a kick out of, and it shows how in trying to avoid being her grandfather's successor she ends up being just like him anyway. It took the worse running gag of Z and made it one of GT's best punchlines
Yeah, I probably should have.
I can't believe Uub's sole contribution to GT is destroying millions of cars.
I love how despite Bejita wanting to fight Goku, he finally seems motivated to do it for fun and not because he has a grudge anymore. He and Goku are finally at the “Piccolo” (who nobody seems too sad about) phase of their relationship.
Technically, Piccolo did got his revenge, he managed to kill Goku, yes, it's because Goku willingly sacrificed himself to take down Raditz, but still :)
Yup, is not like he, out of nowhere, came up with the classic "I will defeat Kakarotto!", Goku took part in a tournament, and nobody told him, of course he was pissed!
Funnily enough, GT and Super do Bejita less dirty than Z did.
@@Another_Hibiki because vegeta is the main villain of z
i just remembered that piccolo died forever last episode.. eh!?? i feel like that i keep forgetting it happened says alot.
It didn't have any meaningful foreshadowing or consequences, so it's easy to forget it happened.
Worst part of GT by far.
The fact that two episodes from now we see him perfectly fine "living" in Hell is one of the reasons why Dragon Ball lost its magic; death meant nothing by this point.
@@Jose-se9pu well, that was more the flaw as early as post-namek than anything, but yea.
Yes death meant nothing at this point, juuuuust at this point. Exactly here and not for years and years prior to this very moment. Lol.
The brevity of the Super 17 arc might make this the last time we can ever get a "classic" DBD arc review, where it only take a handful of episodes to get through! Just something fun to note since you made a joke about it all those years ago.
Looking forward to these couple side episodes before the next big thing!
This is my favorite episode of GT.
It is really good as just a standalone thing you can watch without devoting an entire arc to it, but the character writing is on point. Vegeta is fresh off a “loss” to Goku even if it wasn’t his body, so he wants to prove himself. Mr Satan went through his first real life endangering adventure in 15 years and is coming to terms with no longer being in his prime. Pan shows her stubborn side and takes her own path of her own will rather than the fast track to stardom being constructed for her. And Uub discovers what it means to be a hero. Would have been a great stepping stone for Uub to get actual character development if this wasn’t basically the last thing he ever did.
I also just love how absurdist the humor is this episode. The multi-continent car crash is such an out of pocket gag that it is funny. And the fact that everyone just licks the lolipops in sync feels like it would be a fun thing to do at conventions were GT more popular.
I also just love Uub’s goofy smile at the end. It just fades into the smile and he looks so happy.
Even the crappy animation kinda "works" with how goofy some of the scenes in this episode are.
Indeed, an underrated episode.
Silly Goku, the GT kamehameha would have made you impervious to tickles.
Honestly, I always thought it would've been touching for Mr. Satan to delight in Majuub taking his spot as World Champ. I mean think of it this would've been the perfect payoff for Uub in a way. He first appeared in the series (not counting the Super manga) at the end of Z World Tournament. Goku leaves with him to train as the next savior of the world.
Mr. Satan used Mr. Boo as a ploy in the tournaments to ALWAYS lose to him in the finals in order to maintain his position as the champ.
In the last saga, Buu sacrificed himself to save Uub and merge with him.
We see Mr. Satan missing his best friend and wanting to give the crown over to his granddaughter. Instead, he comes face to face with his disciple (and technically Goku's disciple) in the finals. Yes, I always laughed at the idea of Uub beating the tar out of Mr. Satan and not knowing he was a 'Monaka' in the sense that he was NOT the powerful being everyone thought he was.
Majuub winning would've been Mr. Satan's final gift to Buu by finally letting him win a tournament and Uub would in a sense fulfill Goku's wishes to be the world's savior. However, GT just HATES Uub/Majuub for some reason...
And no I'm not going do the whole 'because he's black thing...' but I can't say that I didn't think that growing up...
“Majoob” is a stupid dub name. He’s still just oob.
@@bgvo4373 🤣
@@bgvo4373 maybe you can say super oob?! :D
I see it similarly.
I think that Oob is generally not that popular and that's why you don't push him that much.
It would have been nice if he still won and Satan learned something from it and said that he is no longer the strongest and that a new generation must and will take over the torch.
But since it was really a filler, you couldn't do that.
At the end you are at exactly the same point as at the beginning. That's why there can't be any character development, let alone a change for the world, which would be the case if Satan had lost and Oob was therefore the new world champion and the strongest for most people in the world.
Ultimately, OOB probably never saved the world, which you can see at the end of GT. He was ultimately a background character like most in GT.
I think the writers of GT didn't want to ruin Toriyama's positioning too much. Ultimately, Dragonball is the story of Son Goku and not of Son Gohan or Oob or anyone else.
That's why they stuck with Son Goku and put Pan at his side.
The manga also ended with Son Goku, which many people probably no longer have on their screens. It didn't say that Oob is the successor to Son Goku. It was left up to the reader whether he would become one or whether he would be just one of many strong fighters and fade into the background.
His fused name is Ooboo, don't know why the Funi translators came up with Majoob.
You have made a terrific comment! Until ...
''.... However, GT just HATES Uub/Majuub for some reason...
And no I'm not going do the whole 'because he's black thing...' but I can't say that I didn't think that growing up... ''
Why did you put this text in your comment? Your comment was so good, positive and uplifting, until that.
Wow, Lance followed his own advice from the fashion extravaganza: "Everybody needs bangs!" Needless to say, i dig the look.
I've always hated that Vegeta's character regresses to obsessing over his rivalry with Goku in this episode. The fact that he had moved on was one of the best parts of the early series
Does it, though? he learns Goku took part in a tournament and he didnt invite him, he is having a rant because his "best buddy" didnt invite him to play, is not the classic "I will beat you, Kakarotto!"...hell the last scene with him just laughing about it shows how much the character grew, he just wants a friendly spar, and wont lose his shit when Goku is Goku.
Krillin almost got away with his sexual harassment if it wasnt for you
Really like the intro for this arc! Thank you for all your hardwork! I always look forward to DBD
I think the car accident scene could have worked better had it been tied to Goku.
Basically Goku finds out about the height requirement and thinks "If I transform into SSJ4 I'll be tall enough" then proceeds to power up.
Since SSJ4 is still new, his powerup causes a destructive reaction (a la the first time we see SSJ3 in the Buu arc).
This would justify two things:
1. The aformentioned car accidents being more of a global thing related to Goku's SSJ4 energy.
2. Vegeta finally feeling Goku's SSJ4 energy, and wanting to fight Goku to measure himself against it at his full power.
But then how would he still end up in the junior division?
@@TylerCharlesFisher he realizes the damage SSJ4 caused outside and powers down.
I think the definition that I've always latched onto is that filler is content that is meant purely for padding out the time without real substance to it.
Standalone filler episodes frequently function like you mention but there are also times where it can even be fully canon material stretched just to fill the time (with no substance like enhancing a fight).
Not gonna lie, Goku side-eyeing Mr. Satan like that at 7:38 had me rolling
Ahhh, the episode long car crash joke… classic.
Funnily enough, despite its filler nature, I've always remember this episode rather well.
The picture of you as a kid that popped up when Magoore was introduced made me bust a gut. This series never gets old…
See you guys in a couple weeks for the conclusion of the Super 17 arc!
Just passing by to say I love what you did with your hair and that turtleneck is SO you. Lovely look.
What you touched on regarding filler is why I love the early parts of Dragon Ball Super where we're just catching up on the characters. I actually cried watching Satan play with baby Pan early on.
THANK YOU THANK YOU for the filler talk, I always felt this way as a kid. I remember specifically people in the power rangers fandom would deem episodes that don't further the plot filler, and I'd talk about how a character grew or changed, we learned more about the world even if it's not connected to lore etc. Especially during the Disney era, people would say if the episode wasn't a 2 parter or explicitly had moments talked about again, you could skip them as filler. It always pissed me off so I feel validated right now
That car pile up, Lance, is the writers and animators of GT forgetting that Papaya Island isn’t where Blooma and her family live. Then again, I’m convinced these people couldn’t tell the difference between any of these cities at this point.
Started watching this serie 8 months ago and this is the first video I catch on the release day. LOVE everything you have done with dragonball dissection and all the new details and facts I learned from you
I like the bangs, Lance 👾 They look good with the glasses 👍
That's the best intro ever!!
The last episode, a quiet one too, before the show goes completely off the rails.
I love the ending of this episode, surprisingly poetic
Love the sweater, love the glasses, love the bangs, they fit so well together and on you
Always happy to see this return nto my notifications. Keep up the good work
Just wanna say thanks for staying consistent after all these years , I’ve been watching you since the dragon box reviews
Thank you for continuing, it's always nice listening to your disection as a podcast. Seeing the goods and bads is always nice rather than people tearing down every "fault" in someone's/some team's creation.
Lol why did Vegeta go through the stage when he could just fly into the ring?
Episode aside, your sweater is adorable! I felt like pointing that out.
Love the sweater!
And to this day, Goku‘s only tournament he won is still the 23rd Tenkaichi Budōkai.
I am excited for the upcoming Goku Jr. review, who is more like Gohan than Goku.
The joke with the cars is obviously that the writes have absolutely no clue about the actual proximity of these locations :-p
I love your look in this episode! That sweater is so cute
I consulted with the elder gods and they agreed that filler is fine as long as it's a baseball episode.
Thank you again for another good video!
I love that fuckin kazoo intro so much lmao
I don't. But everyone can have his or her own opinion ^^
Love you Lance!!! DBD has been really comfy for me in my dark times!!!
I am just as baffled as you are with the car joke. You got me in the mood to rewatch GT and I’m currently on this episode right now, in real time while I’m writing this comment. I paused watching your retrospective series until I finish GT again. But I was so baffled because they clearly don’t take place on the same part of the globe, that I paused the episode, came on here, just to see what you had to say about it because I thought I was crazy. Turns out I’m not I guess. It is so weird, It’s just weird. Also, Jesus Oob, How many people did you kill?😂
Hell Fighter is such an amazing title, I'm surprised this hasn't been reused somewhere else.
I genuinely enjoyed this episode. If it is indeed filler, then it is good filler, better than some of Zs filler even. And now that car crash gag is funny only because of your reaction to it ;p
This was one of my favorites when i was a kid actually. I always liked the "filler" stuff. The Otherworld tournament and the leadup to the Cell Games i also liked.
Honestly, having not watched this show in many years, your reaction to the car crashes is in my top 5 favorite things about GT as of today.
...But what about the giant guy, though?
Great video!
6:03 - 7:08
Wow, you're right that is weird! I'm surprised that I completely missed that detail when watching. I guess either the writers forgot that Capsule Corp. was not in Papaya Island or... the world of Dragon Ball gets regular car crashes no matter where you are. 🤣
Option 3: they built a bridge.
Unless the joke is "Ha! You thought those cars were crashing because of the guy who was knocked out into the road, but actually drivers across Earth are just that terrible and crash all the time!"
I don't understand why you didn't mention Vegeta bursting into laughter alongside the rest of the cast in the end scene after Goku told him he's too full to fight him, I felt like that was one of the most important scenes in this episode and showcases the growth of Vegeta's character in GT
Yeah Same here and that it shows the difference between GT Vegeta and Super Vegeta.
But they did? 14:25
@@TheAzulmagia finds it amusing and doesn't murder everybody this time /= vegeta laughs *with* the cast instead of at them for the first time in the franchise
If I hadn't watched that episode myself, I would have never known that it happened by hearing Fusion's summary of the scene
I also miss tv shows with episodic stories. There's still a few out there, but it seems everything else geared towards serialized "Netflix binge watching" 13 episode season stories
I personally consider this or the next one to be the first episode of the Evil Dragons arc, rather than block out Super 17 as a separate thing--just like episode 1 starts the continual story that leads up to Baby, Super 17 is more or less a prologue setting up a reason for the earth to be in a bad state so they try and use the Dragon Balls and kick off the final arc proper. So this one kinda neatly delineates GT's two halves/arcs.
And I like how the Vegeta stuff here practically trots out the old rivalry thing just to underline that it /isn't/ his driving force anymore, since he's willing to laugh it off. Since we've just spent a bunch of the show with him effectively absent, it reminds us of its relatively more chilled-out take on him.
Maybe they've built a bridge to Papaya Island in the meantime?
Sure, for it to mess up the entire road network on the island, they'd all have to be driving poorly. (Normally an accident just causes a traffic jam.) But we could allow that for the joke.
God, I keep forgetting the Super 17 Saga even exists- I was totally thinking like "okay this is where the dragons show up right" and then I remembered
The video about "filler" was filler?! Mindblown
i think that the people from the tournamento do recognize Goku, but since the 23rd budokai was so long ago, people think Goku is just very old and small from bad posture. Sorta like how master Roshi looked bigger in flashbacks from the classic series.
Absolutely not, because then why would he be allowed in the CHILD division? If anything they’d believe it was a family member then.
Ever since I was a kid I wanted more episodes like this in GT, because the plot was advancing so fast I barely got enough moment to appreciate time I have left with them.
I love your sweater.
Never noticed that car crash discrepancy. Wonder if they were implying the dragon team breaks everything they touch and shouldn’t be allowed in a "normal" society…ever!
OICU Sailor Moon blu-rays in the background!!🤓
Perfect kazoo intro
I hope you mention a certain special guest featured in the Funimation dub when you get to the GT TV Special.
Kind of funny to ponder if this is a filler episode when there is an upcoming episode two arcs from now that has undeinably more filler in it...
can't help noticing those sailor moon DVDs back there..... hint for the future? sailor moon dissection please?
Wow, the dragon ball world has terrible traffic management.
well they let GOKU get a license so that outta tell ya the bar for driving is VERY low
7:00 wow, Papaya Man must’ve knocked that guy _really_ far away!
Gohans robot friend saving him while he trained for the saiyans was such a good episode to me. The quality is definitely subjective. I personally don’t enjoy goku and piccolo driving cars haha. Great vid as always!
most of these filler episodes about Gohan training are gold, really helps the audience to connect with this new character
Love ❤️ the Super 17 saga
I do think the fact that Vegeta is willing to completely drop the fight when Goku’s stomach actually proves Vegeta has evolved as a character in GT compared to Super.
As much as the episode wants you to think he’s serious. He really doesn’t care all that much. At least that’s my interpretation.
Then why did he act like he was serious? I mean, he beat up a bunch of monks just to interrupt Goku's match. Are we to assume that afterwards Vegeta told those monks "hey, I was just foolin' around! No hard feelings, right?"
@@TylerCharlesFisher yes because that’s how gags work all the time in Dragon Ball
Maybe it's you're in ability to get the joke and over explain it, but I find "random vehicular accident chain reaction so great it can travel to an entire different continent" absolutely hilarious.
It is a hilarious *idea*, but like with so much of GT, it fails to capitalize on it in a humorous way. For a continent-spanning catastrophe, the show sure presents it as quiet and subtle. There are no variations on the theme, no escalation, no real punchline. It's just the exact same thing multiple times. It's a whimper rather than a bang.
@@MistareFusionWell you probably did some of the work for the joke by openly pointing it out each time and highlighting the distance to Vegeta's house.
Where did that map come from?
Oh, it wish ended flat at 20:27. No outro or anything!
Looking good with the long hair btw
Isn't the tournament from the buu saga in satan city? So shouldn't that be where this one is? (Which would explain capsule cort being affected by traffic)
But then what about Papaya man?
Wait, WHAT?! The GT special premiered here?
So are we to assume that Pan entered the tournament not knowing that, if she won, she would inherit her grandfathers title?
What DID she think she was going to get for winning? A lollipop?
Magure is the fusion of freeza saga gohan and resurrection f gohan
You should also do height scaling in Gt cuz chichi seems to look smaller than videl
I appreciate the car crash bit. It doesn’t make any sense and I think that’s pretty fun
hype
i dont really remember the ark caus ein germany a lot episodes gut cut. did u ever saw what a mess the german dragonball gt release was?
they cut several episodes cause there were too brutal. so u lost completly the track
Didn't Anglos do the same? "GT the lost episodes" or something
If this episode came out today I would believe that car crash joke was AI generated.
20:46 Huh, how?
Talkin about serialized vs episodic, Avatar could be a good subject. Book 1 is mostly episodic and Book2 is mostly serialized. Book3 tries to go half and half, mixed and I find it the weakest (but I still love it).
I forgot there was a tournament in GT
Wasn't the tenkaichi budokai moved to Satan City or am I crazy?
This is the sole episode of filler in all of GT's run, it's kinda memorable, but kinda forgettable at the same time. This is a perfectly mid filler episode, but not the in the way most people equate to something being mid (Mid = Bad). It's light years better than the absolute shitfest the Super 17 arc is gonna be (especially Episode 43) so it has that going for it.
There is one more episode in GT that is filler...
Yeah, 43 is officially the worst animated episode of the original DB run I’ve ever seen…and it’s saying something when even Super's worst drawings feel like a painting by comparison.
I wish in this tournament that mr satan passed out his title to goku/z fighters, explaining they are the ones who helped saved the world and probably getting back to the era in the original dragonball where stuff that the z fighters did during tournaments was normal.
I know it was absolutely a mistake on Super's part, but the idea of Uub knocking someone through a wall somehow resulting in ALL traffic EVERWHERE being ruined is a very absurd joke and almost loops back around into being funny.
Super's? You mean GT's.
Other than that I completely agree. I don't know if it's intentional but it works in the Phineas and Ferb absurdist humour style.
Both filler and unrelated tangents can be fun occasionally, and here is an unrelated tangent for you... Were you having fun with a saturation slider, or did Majin Buu absorb the Teletubby Tinky Winky and irradiate part of your sweater with magenta magic?
You're asking a colorblind person, but I'm pretty sure it's just magenta magic.
@@MistareFusion Oh, haha. I thought so. :)
I've seen people say that shows like Steven Universe and Amphibia has filler even through there not adaptionals of books there 100 % orginal
The meaning of the word "filler" is not originally about the new additions made by an adaptation, but about taking up empty space like box filler being used so the fragile contents won't get smashed inside the box when it moves.
The "filler" people mean in those cases are episodes which don't progress the main narrative.
@@genyakozlov1316 Actually some if the filler was made during time skips to fill in the blanks on how certain characters act and there motivations
I definitely agree with the overuse and under-comprehension of "filler" in colloquial terms nowadays. I think people should just be honest when they don't like an episode and call it skippable or bad. I've been rewatching Adventure Time recently and I have no problem admitting that an episode like Web Weirdos sucks, even if it's just as much "filler" as Hall of Egress, my favorite episode.
I'm kinda mixed on this filler episode, it has some funny moments, specifically Vegeta showing up to face Goku, I'll give it that. I also like Buu letting Uub be defeated by Mr Satan so he can remain champion.
But on the other hand, its also has way too many ridiculous contrivances for the sake of comedy. From Pan's reasons for wanting to drop out to Goku losing to a kid. It just feels way too dumb even by DB standards.
Jeez, Mr Fusion, you get any more cute I gonna have to start questioning my sexuality
Yeaaaah
Let's get this video to a lot of views in the first hour so that it gets love from youtube
Algorithm bless this video which i liked even before watching it because it's that good
Seriously, sometimes i end up pissed off because i can't like it again after watching it, fix that youtube
Lots of words lots of engagement, yadda yadda
"I actually like the new Star Trek series" - never have I heard you say something as controversial as this in all of DB Dissection.
.
I'm more or less in agreement with you on what constitutes "filler" in a non-adapted work. Honestly, I think it's too confusing even to use the term when you're not talking about an adaptation. In Dragon Ball Super, for example, what would ordinarily be considered "filler" tends to be some of the highest-quality episodes in the show because there's no stretching of a story narrative to fill a pre-determined length of broadcast time.
So many of these "slice of life"-type episodes give more focus to character than plot and can work really well. I remember some of the DB Super "filler" episodes much better than even pivotal episodes in the main story arc - most often just because they made me laugh. Goku having to throw a public fight against Mr. Satan, Vegeta shattering the fourth wall when Arale's "playing" gets out of control, poor Yamcha trying to organize a Universe 6 and 7 baseball game, even Piccolo lecturing Chichi about proper parenting. Those are the episodes I can go back and watch from start to finish - but in the animated Dragon Ball or DBZ, they're exactly the definition of "filler".
They really dropped the ball on the vegeta thing though: the prideful prince of all sayians has been easily mind controlled and quite literally violated and he's like "just another Monday". I'm not saying I am expecting a deep representation of trauma and sexual assault metaphors but don't possess your most childish and easily butthurt character if you're not willing to explore his feelings about it
What a Fashion statement, Hot pink and urk brown, little conflicting, but can't not respect someone willing to wear that =P
8:26 MissedTakeFusion