The Complete Saiyan/Tsufruian History - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Baby Arc Part 13
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Dragon Ball GT hits its breakthrough episode. Everything changes. Baby reveals his backstory. Vegeta falls to the brainwashing. Even the opening and ending sequences are given a refreshed treatment. But who are these mysterious Tsufruians? When have we encountered them before, and how has their story changed over the years? Believe me, despite their lack of appearances, their story has changed a lot.
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I might have commented this before, but I think there's some good unspoken stuff with Baby having the Tsufuru king's memories; he has this real sense of anxiety to his dialogue and actions as the arc progresses. No amount of control is quite enough, he always acts like there's this splinter in his mind nagging him that "what if it all goes wrong again?", which feels like what's ultimately driving him to continue conquering.
Very interesting take! I can def see it especially since Baby is so quick to anger which is really that anxiety and fear. It takes over for a moment when he sees Goku as a great ape
When Goku goes ozaru, you can see he is gunuily scared, he is getting flashbacks.
If you had tried to read more into this you would've fallen between the pages. DB fans doing all the heavy lifting once again.
@@pascalsimioli6777well Dragon Ball Lore is pretty underdeveloped
@@omega8440 i feel thus Arc should of showcased baby's Character more
It is so nice to have the entire history of the evolution of the Tuffle-Saiyan stuff in one video finally.
Agreed. The Saiyan-Tuffle War is one of the more underrated parts of Dragon Ball lore.
Literally 2 races with no history or lore that face off "off camera" just because
You: one of the most underrated parts of the series
Lmao
@@johnnygyro2295I’m sorry, but do you just refer to Tsufurians as a stupid dub name?
What are tuffles?
@@bgvo4373
And if I did?
Man, of all the episodes to have data failures on it had to be the one with lots of explanation and copius notes... I hope the worst is behind you and that things are more back on track! Great and informative episode as per usual!
You mention the Super Broly movie, which adds another wrinkle to all this: the ‘Geets we all know and love is Vegeta IV, which means, barring some crazy House of Saud-level procreation, that at least two generations of Vegetas exist before the prince’s father.
In other words, depending on what you believe about Saiyan history, they organized themselves into a kingdom for two generations of being either a refugee, client, or slave race of the Tsufruians.
Well Broly doesnt take filler into account right?
Isn't there a thing where sometimes Japanese doesn't specify between "father" or "parent" and "grandfather" "grandparent" or other, direct ancestor? Or, like, in English, especially older English, like Victorian and Elizabethan, there's "Fathers and Forefathers" in stuff like Shakespeare, the bible, the U.S. constitution and Gettysburg address and so on.
I think it was mentioned, or implied, that the war against the Tuffles truly began when Vegeta's "father, the king" united the primitive Saiyan tribes and lead them to war.
To me, if we do decide to include the "Vegeta IV" stuff from the Super Broly movie and Super Manga, the way to reconcile everything is that "Vegeta I" both defeated the Tsufurians and established the Vegeta dynasty and renamed the Planet, and at some point under Vegeta II or Vegeta III they started conquering and selling worlds and got acquired by Freeza and Cold, and then our Vegeta, Vegeta IV is born and the planet blows up.
If we really want, we can even say that the god of the Saiyan home planet that destroyed the planet for their wickedness was the Super Saiyan God Yamoshi, who fought against the evil Saiyans for their wickedness, and the planet that got destroyed was the Universe 7 version of Planet Sadala.
Literally nothing has ever put things together that way, but it at least feels like there's a way to fit everything together to make sense, lol.
No, Japanese has distinct words for all of those relatives you mentioned.
@@Pleinair92 I mean, yes, I know, what I'm getting at is, isn't there a thing where sometimes they use a word other than the distinct, literal one? Like, I remember something in the Dragon Ball anime's wedding dress filler where Gyūmaō calls Fortuneteller Baba "mother" even though, to our knowledge, they aren't even related.
Like, even in modern English, sometimes the words "Pops" or "Papa" can be used to refer equally not just to someone's actual father but also to refer to their grandfather.
Even if Japanese has separate words for father and grandfather, I could have sworn that, like other languages, the way people use a word in speech isn't necessarily always the literal definition.
I've seen people say the reveal that Vegeta is Vegeta IV retcons the Saiyan uprising as being three generations ago instead of one.
As someone who enjoys writing fanfiction and cherry-picking my favorite elements of Dragon Ball's backstory, I felt like I might as well take a shot at adding my rendition of the game of Tsufurian Telephone.
When Planet Sadala was destroyed, a single tribe of saiyans escaped by using an old abandoned spaceship they had found. In time they landed on planet Plant, where the native Tsufurians welcomed them into their society. During this time, the saiyans continued to wear animal skins despite the Tsufurians being able to make more sophisticated clothing. Sooner or later, the saiyans attacked, possibly as retribution for unfair treatment, or least perceived unfair treatment. The saiyans were led by a man who would eventually be named King Vegeta I. As the war turned in the saiyans' favor thanks to the full moon, two tsufurians had about the same idea, with King Tsufuru creating Baby at the same time Doctor Lichi created Hatchiyack, by the ending stage of the war, the sayians had introduced armored shoulder pads to their attire. After the war, where all or nearly all of the tsufuruains had been wiped out, either King Vegeta II or King Vegeta III came into contact with King Cold, who recruited them into his service, giving the saiyans technology on par with the rest of the galaxy while the Cold Force, later known as the Freeza Force appropriated and integrated what bits of saiyan and tsufurian technology they thought could be useful. Then, during the reign of King Vegeta III and the childhood of Prince Vegeta IV, Freeza blew up the planet, setting the events of Dragon Ball in motion.
It’s impressive how simple the backstory is when all the information is laid out in order.
@@TheUncomplicatoryeah its good
Good stuff.
Also, maybe the god of Planet Vegeta could be instead the God of Sadala who summoned the meteor shower when he failed to get the Saiyan factions to cease their civil war and that one tribe of saiyans was the only group able to avoid the same fate as the majority of their kind.
If we're bringing up ideas in hindsight, I had an idea for the buu retcon where instead of creating him, bibidi found him. What if Buu is the evil half of a majin God of destruction that was purged from himself like Kami and piccolo. Either from another universe or previous god of destruction from universe 7.
14:05- Vegeta: I thought the original inhabitants were purple snail people.
Baby: No. that’s back when it was called planet Plant. It then became Planet Tuffle before you Saiyans left Planet Sadala with some multiversal shenanigans to take over our home. We’re taking revenge for you wiping us out.
Vegeta: Did they go extinct or-
Baby: we Tuffles wiped out the escargot bastards.
Vegeta: and you call us genocidal racists.
Baby: just for that, I’m making your body totally radical as punishment.
Vegeta: No!
You can make the god of planet Vegeta concept work if you remember Kaio didn’t want Goku to fight Freeza so he made up a lie about the god of planet Vegeta. The biggest plot hole is Kaio telling Goku that Saiyan’s transform into Great Apes during a full moon before he’s supposed to find out.
I grew up with Blue Water dub where they called Tsufurians "Tsuffles". I like that a lot better than the Funimation name "Tuffle" that gets thrown around these days, so I guess I prefer Soufflé over Truffles.
Also, Dragon Ball Magic.
Funimation was really inconsistent about this in their dub of GT. I recall seeing “Tuffle” and “Tsuful” used almost at will.
same.
It's the nice middle-ground name for me too (though I'm also biased, having grown up with the Blue Water dub). ''Tsuful' (sue-full) is just an easier word to say than 'Tsufurian', and isn't as ridiculous sounding as 'Tuffle'.
Considering it's such a mediocre dub, I'm really grateful to Blue Water. They made sure we got a pretty accurate script and the original soundtrack.
Baby is a fun antagonist. He starts with what is arguably noble mission. He wants to take revenge on the Sayians, who at the time were indeed an evil race who destroyed his people. The irony is that the more Baby succeeds in his goals, the more malevolent he becomes.
Once he gets Vegeta, he goes as far as to take over the Earth to create a new planet Tsuffle, while mind controlling the population. Then he kills Goku, the most pure hearted Sayian of all. Then he wants to continue his conquest across the universe just because he can. Even when his revenge is complete, he chooses to remain evil, rather do good with his life.
Did he, though? his plan seems to end when he wishes his planet again, and plans to move all humans (now "tsufurs" in his eyes) there.
The whole thing about "conquering the universe" feels like he is trying to put his race in "its place", considering that they were advanced as shit, and Freezer pretty much conquered the universe using their technology.
Thats because while Baby has an interesting backstory it ends up mattering very little to his character since he is written like a generic bad guy. The writers did this so we would 100% cheer for Goku when he wins, which wouldn't be possible if Baby was a complex character who had been consumed by revenge.
The irony is that Baby becomes more Saiyan-like as the arc goes on, not only in terms of motivation but he outright uses a Saiyan body as his main vessel and winds up having the major goal of turning into a Great Ape.
The only ideas I've got on reconciling Vegeta being able to remember Tuffle/Tsufurian Ki is if he's actually just referencing Dr Lychee and Hatchyack without being direct.
Or Vegeta actually did have some Ki sensing ability at some point, and just never mastered or looked into it and utterly forgot about it before his visit to Earth. And there was a surviving Tuffle/Tsufurian he fought at some point in the past before he could quantify what he was experiencing.
I do love this arc as it reminds us that are main heroes come from a genocidal race and now they have to suffer for the sins of there people. it also shows what revenge can do to someone like baby.
Granted goku literally was a cast out low level scum!
Vegeta's instigating the plot again! But he's being controlled! But this time not of his own free will. Vegeta really has grown as a character and a person. Good for him!
I always thought it was so stupid that King Vegeta, as in the father of the main Vegeta, potentially both landed on Plant and took it over, then formed an alliance with Freeza before then being wiped out.
Toriyama, almost certainly without knowing, caring, or thinking added just the most delightful tidbit to make this mostly fit better….. “Vegeta IV”
I’m sure something somewhere doesn’t just say King Vegeta but Vegeta’s father exterminated the Tsufuru, but the idea of a Vegeta I generations past doing it feels much more believeable and is definitely my headcanon now.
This was all the GT anime staff’s fault. Toryama and the DBZ staff seemed to conceive the tsufirians as a long dead race from hundreds of years ago.
7:24- Freeza: you Saiyan and Human males look the %*ing same- except the bald one with three years, the chalk white one with red cheeks, the noseless one, the fat one, and the elder.
GT Vegeta vs Gohan was such a badass scene
28:27 I mean in Z, 7 years time covers a lot if you start the clock at the arrival of Raditz and end it when Gohan kills Cell.
You covered plan to Eradicate the Saiyans *3 years ago?* 😭 how time flies. It felt like you covered that just yesterday!
I felt it was longer...
I commend you for going over the convoluted history of the saiyans. That must have been a bit of a headache. xD
I really like the scene where Baby takes over Vegeta. The red lines appearing on his face and in his eyes as he's twitching and clenching, trying to hold control but clearly having absolutely none. I also really like the design of Vegeta with the white hair and red lines on his face and eyes. It's simple and effective. Every change to his design from here on out I just don't like at all. They eventually take away the pupils in the design, which I didn't like because I feel like they add a sense of humanity, I like to think Vegeta is still in there somewhere, but can only watch as Baby uses his body, much more horrifying to me that way.
The inclusion of Beerus actually works surprisingly well with the original reason Vegeta was destroyed.
The god of Vegeta prayed for a meteor (because the saiyans were wicked). Beerus, being the lazy god of destruction that he is, answered the prayer by subcontracting the destruction of planet Vegeta to Frieza, who then blew it up. (I haven't watched/read all of Super yet, so I don't know if Vegeta finds out that Beerus is the ultimate cause of Vegeta's destruction. Oh that's confusing, I'll just start calling them P Vegeta and P Vegeta for short).
It gels better than when we knew the god of Vegeta called for a meteor, only for it to be secretly Frieza who blew up the planet.
Man, I had no idea the version 2 of the opening started so soon, when you started talking about it I thought "but wait isn't there the SSJ4 shot in the end? Isn't it too soon for that? Is there a secret sorta "version 1.5" of the opening that I don't know of- oh they actually just showed it off early without a care in the world". Guess they had to sell those toys ASAP
I've never been bothered by the inconsistencies involving Baby's creation mostly due to my misunderstanding of things
I hadn't realized that Baby created Myuu and all(?) Of Planet M2
I had assumed Myuu had already been a thing and had M2 up and going when the pod containing Baby landed there, so Myuu decided to take Baby and work on/upgrade him. Idk how I misunderstood all that though.
I do wish to propose and alt theory however.
Maybe Baby has a Cell like ability to regress to an earlier life stage at will. So Baby creates M2, creates Myuu (maybe other machine mutants but Myuu is all that matters for this idea)
As he wraps up creation of Myuu he reverts to that infantile stage. Myuu would pick up the pieces planted in his head from Baby and turns M2 into what we know it as.
Maybe Baby did it to cover some tracks, give himself some newer upgrades that he couldn't do by himself? I'm unsure.
I'm sure issues with this idea exist that I'm not thinking of but it may help explain that lil oddity of a line.
Love your dbd videos Fusion, always look forward to a new one.
Is this a Mandela effect thing? I thought this too for the longest time and never questioned it
He most likely does have the ability to revert himself, when there's a flashback to Baby being created we see him having the shape of an adult form so my theory is that his form depends on either him being able to turn back into an infant form over time or that when he doesn't have a host he uses up his stored energy and the more he uses it up the younger appearance he assumes, plus the fact that during the early stage of GT Dr. Myuu does mention the fact that he intended to "revive" Baby, so it suggests further that his previous form used to be different.
....holy shit, Vegeta actually was an antagonist in every arc he was in up to this point, I never realized that lmao.
It took until Super for that trend to be broken.
The trend actually dies in the Super 17 arc.
Man, I really like those Opening and Ending themes of GT, possibly more so than any other in the series. Not just because I found all the songs to be really catchy and fun to listen to. But even the visuals, such as the fun adventure into space before then switching to the new opening with Baby and Super Saiyan 4, and the endings to be more reflective and looking back at the past feels almost kind of sad and was a hint that the anime series was close to ending.
And to an extent, that pretty much was the last series of the anime's original run before Dragon Ball Super came on 18 years after GT ended. So it was neat to hear you talk about it while also having some of the same feelings I had when watching it.
I wonder if there are any video games where Baby and Hatchiyak interact. At the very least, I think Baby is more interesting than the latter, since there's something delightfully ironic about Baby becoming increasingly more Saiyan-like in his effort to get revenge on them. I half-wonder if Toriyama cribbed on that when writing Goku Black.
I like the opening shot of Goku going through all of his Super Saiyan forms (aside from 2) as he uses the Kamehameha, but I agree that the final shot of Super Saiyan 4 Goku is both way too early and also an indication that the show is about to turn into the Goku Power Hour instead of being ensemble cast driven.
You could even assume that the Tsufruians themselves were originally from another planet, and took over Planet Plant. And in the end get Karma when the Saiyans do just the same.
Here's a continuity stretch: The Tsufruians hires the Cold Empire to get them a new planet. Plantians (purple guys) are killed by Cold Empire. Tsufruians take over. Eventially Saiyans invade from Salada. Eventually war happens and Saiyans win (karma for Tsufruians). Cold comes back to check on Tsufruians and finds Saiyans there. Makes a deal to work with Saiyans. Eventually Frieza blows them up (karma for Saiyans).
Than freeza gwts killed/ defeated by goku/trunks (karma for freeza)
Lmao those two pictures of Gohan and Goten look just like a Super Saiyan Vegeta lmao😊
There having 3 different versions of the Tsufrurians is very on par for Dragon Ball, because of how messy its mythology is due to filler anime and stuff Toriyama made up and then forgot about.
I find it interesting that, whilst stuff like SS4 is remembered quiet fondly, Baby has never really come back in any meaningful way in expanded media, at least to my knowledge.
They both tend to pop up in video games. Baby was just in FighterZ recently even.
@@TheAzulmagiayup in his super baby form ! Also i think thats the first time that baby is in and not one star dragon!
It really shows hows just how much faith the staff had in themselves, deciding to forgo the adventure-type story from OG DB in favor of of the action-pack battles of Z.
Isnt it obvious?? Vegeta knows a Tsufurian ki because he fought one in the totally canon video-game "Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans", in which the EXACT same situation happened.
To quote Vegeta, "If I had a nickel for every time a Tsufurian genetically engineered soldier came to Earth to avenge its people against the Saiyan race, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice, right?"
Its funny because the eyecatches exclude Piccolo, and one of the endings even has Goku's tail cover his face, the staff really disliked the guy, it shows even in super.
No wonder no one remembers that Gohan blew him away.
7:47 Looks like Goten needs some of those pool eyedrops to clear out his red eyes.
That's a deep-cut reference.
Dragon Ball Super: Broly, has canonized that Vegeta is actually Vegeta IV, so retroactively that has the events of the Sufurians take place 4 generations before the birth of our modern day Vegeta.
Well, you're assuming a few things: One, that the Tsufruians actually exist in that telling of events. Two, that the Saiyans didn't have some form of organizational government/monarchy prior to wiping out the Tsufruians. Three, that an earlier Vegeta led the charge against the Tsufruians.
@@MistareFusion What I meant to imply was that it gives the war narrative more leeway to move in because their are 3 kings to choose from between their arrival and the events of the series.
Super outright states that the Saiyans destroyed Salada in a civil war and conquered Planet Vegeta soon after.
This implies that in Salada their was a goverment or complex social organization of sorts (enough for there to be a civil war), but that it likely didn't survive into the new conquest, if only because 3 kings only really makes sense for a newly established royal dynasty,
It makes more sense within the telling of GT, because it shows the saiyans to be in a deplorable state, meaning that in a lot of ways they were starting from scratch.
Even if the war, the alliance with cold and the destruction by Freeza occured almost simultaneously, it still gives it a lot more leeway timeline wise.
So Toyotaro used the Ceraleans as a rebooted Tuffle race for the cosmic scale. Granolah had a great opening in the manga.
That's almost an impressive amount of convoluted backstory.
Best birthday ever
Happy birthday!
Here's my personal Planet Plant headcanon, if I *had* to somehow incorperate all the ideas:
The Plantians (from Episode of Bardock) are the original Planet Plant inhabitants
At some point, they are wiped out by King Cold, and Planet Plant is then *sold* to the Tsufurians, who have some form of alliance with the Cold Force. Since they are somewhat skilled with tech, they help out Cold in that way, rather than just fight.
Eventually the Saiyan arrive from space, briefly live in peace with the Tsufurians, but then betray and conquer them, led by Vegeta I (with our Vegeta being Vegeta IV via Super), and Planet Plant is renamed Planet Vegeta
The King Cold is impressed with the Saiyan's ability to wipe out a planet's population like that and ends up hiring them in the Tsufurians place, rather than retaliate.
Few generations pass, Freeza takes over, he's scared of Saiyans so he kills him, yada yada, you know the drill
Vegeta's father being the one who leads the Saiyans to take over Plant doesn't seem to jibe with the revelation that he's Vegeta IV and his father Vegeta III. So were Vegetas I and II not kings?
Every time they add more lore it contradicts the previous lore, it's amazing. Dragon Ball has the wildest combination of both taking the lore and continuity very seriously sometimes and throwing canon out the window sometimes... and sometimes doing both at once!
The game of telephone ended up (inadvertently) creating a kind of mythos that one might have of a destroyed planet and race - you could never know for sure what is truth, myth, or complete bs. Kinda cool.
Everyone knows that the scouter was invented by Bardock, the brilliant scientist!
Even though I still prefer imperfect cell as a character.
Baby's slow reveal of what he actually is, is done 10x better than Cell's own. can't lie.
perhaps the God of planet Vegeta brought down the meteors the exact same time Freeza destroyed it
I noticed how the tsufur stories of origin would contradict each other. It makes sense to me the saiyans were in the planet first (cave men style) one day the tsufur had an accident with their ship, they had to stay there. Built up a city, lived there for a few generations. During those years the saiyans would learn and apply their technology, there were even some inbreeding. Hence saiyans stop being cavemen, Saiyans develop the armors and scouters... then freezer arrives. Tsufurs die. Saiyans become his slaves...uh... cheap labor workers...
It does make me wonder, if Saiyans are twice as large as Tsufruians, then would Tsufruians be about half the size of humans? I mean Goku is (at least according to cursory Googling) 5'9"... the only Saiyan I can recall who seems particularly large compared to an average human is Nappa, and even he's maybe something like 7' or so I think. Or did Saiyans get shorter/smaller over time and used to be twice the size of a human? It seems like it'd make more sense thematically if the Tsufruians were about the same size and the Saiyans larger. But that doesn't line up with the Saiyans we see in the "modern day" of the story.
Well Baby is pretty short in his natural form. So in terms of staying true to the original concept of "two different methods species can evolve" I'd say yes. They're a race of technology superior leprechauns.
It would fit into that common fantasy trope of the shorter built races being technological prodigies, yeah.
I might be wrong here, but couldnt Vegeta already sense Ki of people that he hasn't met after learning how to sense Ki? For some reason, I always felt that was just a "thing" he does, rather than GT making a mistake.
Also, I actually much prefer the new Opening compared to the old one. I dont feel that the All-Out Kamehameha *just* represents the action aspect, I feel like its a great way of showing Goku is back to Earth. I mean, the opening starts by having Goku transformed back into a kid before blasting off to space, then it ends on him, back home and grown up. Even the rock he is standing on resembles the ones the trio just fell down from against Baby, then having SSJ4 stand on top of it represented him conquering that challenge and protecting the Earth. That even when things look bad, Goku will save the day somehow. I might be looking WAY too deeply into it, but that is what I always thought it meant. (Also, yes, that particular version of the kamehameha has a name, because of course it does.)
Nah, when confronting Dodoria on Namek, Vegeta states the Saiyans on Earth knew how to sense ki, so he figured he was also capable of doing it, and somehow managed to learn how to do it in the time it took him to travel from the Earth to the planet where he got treatment, despite being on death's door, and having to use life support. He even says to the doctor he can have the scouter, because he no longer needs it.
Kamen & Oren: Hey what about us?
Zabuto & Zurloin: Easy young ones, your time will come, now let him cook,
Hatchiyack: Roaring (Agreed)
Baby: Gahaha Look us multiplying I love it, Bwuahahaha!!
Bulma (Infected): Yes King Baby
Bra (Infected): Yes Poppa
Lychee & King Tsufru: What have we done?
Toriyama: Correction what have I approved, now Embrace The Magic.
Granola, Muezli & Oatmeal (Watching a few feet away) : This is awkward...
Kale & Caulifla: (Also Watching) ... So are we gonna fight or what?
The episode, where the credits change is most likely because the episodes are divided to sets of 26, so a full year of proadcast is two 26 episode sets.
Something to add to the saiyan timeline. Shallot, the main character of the mobile game Dragon ball Legends is a ancient saiyan from planet Sadala. Their planet was destroyed in an civil war.
Quick question: Do you like the ending sequence of the opening song with Goku and his GT Kamehameha?
Nevermind, you answered it. 😭
This part of Baby Saga onwards is my favorite part of Dragon Ball, so for me it was really entertaining and nice to see how the idea of Tsufurian vs Saiyan history evolved.
You'd assume fruits would be more intense and flavorful and vegetables would give you more balance and intelligence...
If the Saiyans moved to Vegeta from another planet, then the race should still exist on that planet and not be a dead race.
The reason why the Saiyans migrated to Planet Plant/Vegeta is because their original homeworld doesn't exist anymore.
I really enjoyed this episode, and I'm glad that it was as long as it was in order to fit in a subject not completely contained within DB GT. And hmmm...with all of this plant-related stuff, maybe the game and OVA are actually "Plant O Eradicate The Saiyans!"
I think they lost the great opportunity of baby possesing Vegeta because of a wrong moustache cut.
Baby Vegeta is better than Goku Black
I had this episode on VHS when I was a kid and man was I creeped out lol it played on the Invasion of the Body Snatchers 😂
I didn't know the timeline of the relationship between tsufurujin and saiyajin kept "shrinking" as the series went on, until this video i still thought the tsufurians existed in a time way before king vegeta.
You know, this video reminded how when you watch the original star wars, the way characters talk about the empire in that movie it feels like it has been in place for a very long time, even though the movie never put in place a concrete timeline it always felt way more than the 19 years established by Revenge of the Sith; Also, when obi-wan and vader fight in that movie, their dialogue feels like they haven't seen each other in many decades, but now with the Obi-wan Disney+ series that time frame has been "reduced" to less than 10 years. I kinda hate this, when i watch the original Star Wars now i just pretend it happens in a different canon than all the backstory that came after
The empire couldn’t have existed longer than Vader because in the first film it’s stated that the Jedi where still in power when Vader was young
@@Galvatronover true, but i didn't say it felt longer than Vader's lifespan, I said it felt longer than 19 years
I never realized how convoluted Vegeta's planet's history was until now... Thank you
(30:27-30:38) One more and you would've gotten a free sundae.
I loved the long video, amazing work Lance
I don't like how this version of the backstory compresses the timeline. I much rather prefer for the Tsufurian genocide to have happened at least before King Vegeta was born.
Maybe I'm mixing concepts or misremembering, but wasn't there a version where the Saiyan's arrived in a big ship but they were dressed in fur and we're some sort of space refugees? Because that's how I remember it and it always made me wonder about the real origin of the Saiyans.
Another thread that could be pulled is if Saiyans and Tsufurians had children and if they worked like Human Saiyan hybrids.
"Wasn't there a version where the Saiyan's arrived in a big ship but they were dressed in fur and we're some sort of space refugees?" Yeah, that's the Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans version. (24:06)
@@MistareFusionI preferred the version where they were natives since that at least explains their primitive clothing.
It's honestly odd how the version that would make the most sense for them to start off/attack armored (this one) has them still in furs when they land in Space Pods.
It also lessens the tie between Tsfurians and Saiyans if they were just another race the Saiyans wiped out instead of the first
As do I. That's certainly another thing I could have gone into, the weirdness of how skin-clad primitives have space travel. It's really weird. I agree the thought of them living on this planet, wiping out the advanced species, and pilfering their advanced technology to get into space makes a lot more sense to me.
@@MistareFusion Another thing to note is that if Toriyama ever had the idea of Saiyans as primitives on their own he clearly abandoned it by the time of DBS since they had positions like "Majordomo" and Scientist in their society so he's clearly left the idea of them as just Barbarian Brutes behind
@@MistareFusion I liked the mystery of them being like the prawns from district 8. It made their race a little like a space eldritch horror. They come from the depths of space and just destroy worlds because they're violent and physically powerful, no higher purpose. plus they're a little like the fish people from Dunwich, a human-animal hybrid that can reproduce with the native humans.
I don't think them being natives to Plant is bad either, but if they got to the planet centuries before it wouldn't make that much of a difference in their connection to the Tsufurians.
Wouldn’t it be funny if we found out that the Luud cult was based on the Tsufru-jin’s culture. Like what if Luud was the God of Science from Tsufru-Jin culture lol. I know the anime calls Luud the God of Destruction, but what if Baby changed it to fit his needs.
Krillin shaved his moustache in the new eyecatch
Yep, but only for part of it!
Yeah, zi wish they did do what Vegeta did and shave it off.
I like it way, way, WAY more if the spacepods, scouters and armor comes from the Freeza Force and not the healthy food people.
My rationalization of vegeta recognizing the ki - Vegeta may have some vague memories of tsufirian survivors. Later he learnt ki reading and the stuff he vaguely perceived in the past is now very clear.
Babe, new mistare fusion just dropped!
Much like the story of Bardock, you can extrapolate there are two continuities established, split into two for arguments sake.
ZGT: Saiyans land on Plant. Natives are humanoid. Tsufruians are killed. Saiyans join Cold's empire and gives them scouters. Bardock gets psychic powers, Bardock's team gets killed. Baby Goku gets sent away on assignment. Frieza blows up planet.
KaiSuper: Saiyans land on Plant. Natives are purple guys. Tsufruians are killed. Saiyans join Cold's empire and gets scouters. Bardock gets a "bad feeling." Bardock tells Gine. Baby Goku gets sent away by his parents. Frieza blows up planet.
Will the next video be called " The Success of Baby Vegeta " ?
Hardly because he will become less interesting over the course of the arc. Plus MF already gave some comments on how he hates the designs.
@@crystalfire7x still MF praises how gor once Vegeta being evil again isnt his fault and in the Majin Vegeta video is was titled " The failure of Majin Vegeta" so calling the next video " The Success of Baby Vegeta " does make sense
@@nicholassims9837Still, that doesn't change the fact that after Baby takes over Vegeta he will become another boring evil blowhard and we are going into another outdated villain tennis formula. So no.
I applaud your efforts to try to make sense of all these different inconsistencies.
That reminds me of the naruto timeline were konoha exists only for like 50 years!
Beerus hating the saying because they killed the tsufutu and they had cool food would be a very funny thing tbh
Dragon Ball is a convoluted mess
Baby Baby Oh Baby!
Can't wait to see your opinions on Magic when that's announced lol.
Also I'm still not too big on the Kazoo. >_
I mean if only one person writes it that would get rid of the incondistencies which are the main complaint of fusion!
At least in the Super 17 and Shadow Dragon Sagas, Vegeta is an actual, honst to goodness good guy, with no caveats attached.
I like the idea of the Tsufruian/Saiyan backstory on the surface, but trying to retroactively include the events of planet M-2 and the Machine Mutants just becomes an enormous mess. If Baby was created first, as a Tsufruian virus(?), and if he did create Dr. Myuu afterwards, did he create Myuu in his own image? And did he willingly give himself the moniker of Machine Mutant as a pretense to hide his identity? Clearly the writers had written that portion of the story with the intention of Myuu legitimately creating Baby as his magnum opus, but they couldn’t help themselves and threw in one more twist of having Baby actually create Myuu.
Yeah, it is weird and complicated. I'm sure anyone with five minutes could fix this element by having either one just not create the other.
That's GT in a nutshell. Good idea, bad execution.
Now I get less why Myuu reappears later in hell. Not that Toei was ever consistent to begin with regarding the after-life part of the series.
Super would be hard pressed to ruin the franchise anymore than it already has, but having it revealed that the Vegeta Planet God was actually Beerus telling Freeza to blow up Vegeta would certainly do the trick!
Don’t make em shorter. Make these videos longer 🫡
God bless you man for getting this out after having to battle through a catastrophic incident. One of the best anime UA-camrs on the site!
Next time on mistarefusion z:
Will lance reclaim his harddrives data?
I really, really, really wanted an animatrix(human machine war) and a 2001 space oddysee apes history montage of saiyans and their evolution in the super broly movie. We could see them discover ki, the moon, ways to manifest blutz waves, understand different technology from other races like the predators(Yautja), and eventually destroy the tuffles. Maybe they could destroy the tuffles in the beginning of the montage or not. I was kind of annoyed that all we got was Freeza's first meeting of the saiyans and more dragon ball minus(I don't like minus).
From a narrative standpoint,baby is the best villain in the entire franchise,if he only target was the saiyans and n or innocents,it’d be hard to call him a villains
I wonder if the history of planet Vegeta was as well documented as Earth's in this universe. That would explain a lot.
Do they actually imply that the king vegeta they mention is Vegera's father?
I think i always assumed that every heir to the throne in that planet was named after it, and that the king vegeta of that flashback was a just his great great great great grandfather or something
Off the top of my head, I at least am fairly confident in remembering that Kaio explicitly *says* that it was Vegeta's father in PtEtS. Or perhaps Baby explicitly said it here. I'm almost certain at least one of those establishes that the character we see in those flashbacks is Vegeta's father. At any rate, the official timelines treat it as such. As I said, the period of time between the conclusion of the Tsufruian War and the destruction of Vegeta is 7 years. If we are to take that at face value, it literally couldn't be anybody else.
@@MistareFusion true good point
@@MistareFusion The Broly movie establishes Vegeta is the fourth of his name, so that means, at least according to the new canon, the events happened 4 generations before the birth of Mainline Geets.
@@Rafael_Mena_Ill I don't see why Vegeta I and II couldn't have ruled before they migrated to planet Plant.
@@prometheusmodelow8322 they could have, but why assume they did?
24:03 Ah finally a video, that goes into Baby and Hatchiyack at the same time.
That... was an effin' headache
I'm suprised you didn't bring up the setting of the fight, given how you've praised Toei's settings before.
I enjoyed the location. I just didn't have any room to talk about about it in this >30 minute-long episode.
From what I've gathered, "Furuutsu", can be either "Fruit" or "Fruits". With that in mind, I think a good way to have an English pronunciation that both keeps the pun intact and sounds more natural would be "Tufrian". I mean, maybe it's just me, but Tsufurian just doesn't roll off the tongue well. And the extra "u" sure doesn't help.
Sure, "Tufrian" removes the "s", but as I said, Furuutsu is also the Japanese pronunciation of the word "Fruit", singular. I guess one could say since "Tsufuru-jin" drops the elongated "u", we should drop the "i" too... but then we can just say the "i" comes from the suffix "ian" and not from "Fruit" :p
P.S: oh, and I'd pronounce it as "Toofrian" to keep the same "u" sound as in "Fruit".
I think I settled on "Tsufrutian."
Toei bent the knee to DBZ fanboys who love stupidly OP fights with zero storytelling
You do know all this took place in Japan in the 90s right? I doubt "fan outcry" played a role in their decisions.
@@mechajay3358 want to bet? DBZ was just as huge in Japan as it is here...
@@RyoUrawa777 There is no evidence in Japan about fan outcry. So no.
Who needs shorter videos? Not me
Sisko and Dukat as good examples of two guys talking is brilliant.
So.... since TotallyNotMark's DBZ review got us Buu Bits... Could GT Dissection get us GT Bits? Please?
That’s one way for TFS to make Fusions channel more popular
Say it right. God it's Kryptin all over again.
Hey, make the videos as long as you need, they're great.
Okay, so I’m gonna try to justify GT’s explanation of the Saiyan/Tsufruian history, the history of Freeza’s relationship with the Saiyans, and Z’s explanation of the Saiyan/Tsufruian history by Kaio, because original Z and GT take place within the same continuity in Toei’s original anime run. I’m not going to factor Toriyama into this, since the Tsufruians don’t exist for all intents and purposes in the original manga.
- Alright, so, when King Vegeta was a young man, the harmony between the Saiyans and the Tsufruians broke, and the Saiyans wiped them out. It’s shown to have happened at least a century prior to the events of the Saiyan arc, since in the filler episode of that arc where the fighters of Earth use the Room of Time to test their might against Saiyans that long ago in the past, the planet is shown to be littered with debris and corpses, and the Saiyans that they encounter have scouters and the distinctive armor.
- Moreover, in the original Bardock special (which is also canon to the original anime run), Panbukin makes it seem like Freeza’s takeover of the Saiyans was fairly recent in memory, as he expressed that Freeza was essentially giving him and his squad their dream jobs, as if it was still some wondrous thing. Some bolt from the blue that nobody can believe happened, and with this, I could believe that this is the timeline so far: the Saiyans won the war with the Tsufruians, and then after close to or over seven decades of conquering planets alone, a much larger conqueror invaded the Saiyans’ planet and began exploiting them for the technology they’d taken from the Tsufruians and the armor that they’d cultivated since then. It lines up if you really think about it.
- Baby being sent off into space and developing independent of the events of the rest of the series isn’t relevant, as while it ties into the timeline of the Saiyans, Tsufruians, and Freeza, that’s simply something else that was happening at the time of everything else, rather than something that had an impact on it.
- The discrepancy of the God of Planet Vegeta raining fire on the planet as explained by Kaio and the existence of Freeza is gonna go into headcanon territory, since Toriyama obviously didn’t have Freeza in mind when Toei wrote episode 20 of DBZ. However, due to Toriyama himself essentially coming up with the story on a whim as he went along, this can be excused-in the context of what the story would later set up-as Kaio intentionally omitting the truth by merely alluding to Freeza destroying Planet Vegeta because the Saiyans were growing too powerful for him to control with the whole “God of Planet Vegeta” story, since he knows-as shown later in both in Z and in the equivalent point in time in the manga-that Goku will only see Freeza as a strong guy to fight instead of a serious threat that could kill him in an instant, and by telling Goku the true nature of how his home planet was destroyed, that’s directly telling him “Hey, someone extremely dangerous who’s stronger than you exists.” I can accept this as Kaio lying based on what was set up later in the story.
Why make them shorter? I’ve been following DBD since the Saiyan saga, and have thoroughly enjoyed every release since, no matter how long!
In short: because the longer a video is, the longer it takes to make. I'm not talking about making them shorter than they typically have been but getting them back to where they have been (ie. 20-23 minutes). The last two have been pushing and/or exceeding 30 minutes because I've just had too much to say. That's not even getting into the fact that I've released *two* hour-long scripted videos just over the course of this summer. All these extra-long videos have started to take their toll on my ability to keep up with my release schedule.
@@MistareFusion That makes sense. Well just know that I appreciate all your hard work, and as someone who has also been putting in a lot of extra hours lately, your videos are one of the things I most look forward to every other Monday.
Yeaaaah
Let's get this video to a lot of views in the first hour so that it gets love from youtube
Algorithm bless this video which i liked even before watching it because it's that good
Seriously, sometimes i end up pissed off because i can't like it again after watching it, fix that youtube
Lots of words lots of engagement, yadda yadda
Yeaaaah
Let's get this video to a lot of views in the first hour so that it gets love from youtube
Algorithm bless this video which i liked even before watching it because it's that good
Seriously, sometimes i end up pissed off because i can't like it again after watching it, fix that youtube
Lots of words lots of engagement, yadda yadda
Hearing that Koyama Takao didn’t work on DBGT doesn’t surprise me at all. It would’ve been a zillion times better if they brought him on.
Doth my senses deceive me or is there some kind of editing mistake at around 5:47?
At the moment, I have to chalk it up to deception because I'm not hearing or seeing anything out of the ordinary. What specifically are your senses picking up?
@@MistareFusionSorry, I intended a time stamp about 10 earlier. It's not terrible, it's just that something seems less than smooth
I'm screaming. I'm crying. My life is over. I just checked. That's not in my editing timeline. I swear I didn't hear it when I played back the file before I uploaded it. Nobody mentioned it in the entire week it's been up already. Excuse me. I'm going to spend the rest of my day banging my head against a wall.
@@andorchadas7407I just heard it at 5:35 ish.
@@MistareFusion Ah, don't be so hard on yourself. Stress causes hairloss. I'm sure you'd rather keep your hair. And since I noticed, do I get a prize?
I just thought of something I know Dbgtd would sound bad but what if instead it was called dbdgtv since gt is technically apart of dbdtv.
Baby should've kept Gohan's body he is stronger than Vegeta.
Not in GT. We don't see him go Mystic until like the final episodes, and by that point Vegeta has SSJ4 which is stronger.
@@ThelronFjord true but Gohan seemed the logical choice to me