Shelby GT500 5.4 VS 5.8
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- Опубліковано 22 лип 2024
- Hey everyone! In this video I give a little more focus on just the engines themselves! Please ask any and all questions below. Hope you all enjoy and please like and subscribe!!
Thank you.
#shelbygt500 #5.4 #5.8 #engine #mustangs #TheHorseman
Instagram is The.horseman331 - Авто та транспорт
5.4 is 330 ci, 5.8 is 354 ci
Calculating displacement from the actual bore and stroke, not any liter to cubic inch conversion nonsense.
Neither engine has stronger rods.
They share the exact same forging the only difference is final machining.
5.4 rod has a pin oiler drilled in the small end while 5.8 didn’t but the small end of the 5.8 rod was narrowed.
Rods are a wash, but the 5.4 is easier on rods for the simple fact the piston/pin assembly is lighter and the lower compression of the 5.4 means it’ll probably experience less momentary detonation over its life.
The 11/12 5.4 and 13/14 5.8 are as close as 2 engines can get really.
Same crank (5.8 has a slug of Mallory in it), same cylinder head castings, same block castings (5.8 block was decked shorter to compensate for a thicker .051” compressed thickness head gasket and the outboard coolant passage and a pin hole drilled in it), same connection rod forging.
5.8 had a larger bore (3.681” vs 3.552” for 5.4), 5 layer .051” compressed head gaskets (5.4 has .036” gasket), 9.0:1 (5.4 had 8.4:1), 5.8 got high lift Ford GT cams (5.4 got the tiny 03/04 Cobra cam set).
Same valve train and valve springs otherwise
Swap a Trinity blower on the 5.4 and they’re 30-35 rwhp apart tops pulley for pulley.
The 5.4 is considered to “take more” because the lower compression makes for a wider window to mask a slightly too aggressive tune.
Both are rod limited and both are otherwise way, way, *way* better engines than the Terminator 4.6 engine outside of the connecting rod itself.
The 5.4’s smaller bore does make for a stronger/thicker cylinder wall and better head gasket sealing but neither is really relevant with a stock connecting rod as that’s the limiting factor.
Thanks for explaining all this.
Your smart thank you for this info makes a lot of sense
As a fellow S197 GT500 owner....SUBBED!!
Your awesome man!! Thank you!
The 5.8 L is actually a Beefier Engine. And was engineered by Germans and is a very stout engine. The 5.8 was pretty much maxed out from the factory and there are probably only a few things that you can do to that engine without changing injectors.The perfect combo to get you some good power would be a 2.4 inch pulley, A larger cold air intake, and a throttlebody And of course a good tune preferably by Lund. Them guys know GT500’s. With a PMAS Cold air intake and those combos should get you right around 700 wheel horsepower. If you run E85 well you’re going to get more. And pump gas with those combos you don’t have to change the fuel system. The 5.4 L there is just more to do, you have to upgrade the blower and injectors. Keep in mind that because of the low compression with these engines compared to the coyote, it will take more boost but the problem with that is higher IAT’s. The coyote on pump Gas you should only put 10 pounds of boost and anything higher you risk blowing the engine on pump gas. Where are the GT 500 engines you need more boost for the same potential on pump gas but then IAT’s will be higher. I think the 13 and 14 GT500 have a perfect heat exchanger from the factory and the highest i see on a hot summer day is about 120 degrees. And the heat exchanger on the 11 and 12 are absolute garbage. With the Lund tune on the 13 and 14 with the fan settings changed to come on sooner IAT’ are not a problem. On the 2007 through 2012 you need an upgraded heat exchanger to battle those intake air temperatures to get better boost and not pull timing
Germans?
@@1991tommygun no idea this is a ford engine. It’s a 5.4 bigger. No idea where the Germans came from. Is a 5.8 triton
The 5.8 is a 5.4 same exact motor just more cubes. And some other quirks. I don’t know where u got the idea it’s a new motor
@@user-mk4se3nu5z it is not a triton, the triton uses very different heads and spark plugs. The 5.8 is a trinity motor designed by German engineers. The 5.4 gt500 has nothing in common with the triton motor. You need to do some more research before you start making up your own theories. I am an engine builder and have been building engines as a career for 23 years now. The triton has either 2 or 3 valves and has a different piston and block design. The compression is very low on a triton engine and is naturally aspirated. The 5.8 has a different block than the 5.4. They are similar but different. And yes I will say it again, the 5.8 Trinity was engineered by the GERMANS.
@@sylvesterstallone8637 the 5.4 is 4v variant
10 was iron block. 11-12-13-14 aluminum
Good video. You're pretty spot on with your assessments. If you wanna keep a stock car or just mild bolt ons the 5.8 is better mostly because of the better blower. If you are planning to swap the blower anyways the 5.4 makes more sense they can easily get to and past that limit with like a gen3r or something like that. If you're really leaning on them near the limit they seem to hold up little better for whatever reason. Maybe it's the slightly lower compression? Also there is more thickness to the cylinder walls so to speak maybe that helps but I think more than anything it's the raised rpm on the 13 and 14. They can redline at 7 if conditions are right and it isn't too hot or whatever (the engine) and they supposedly did a small change to the rods to get it to handle this but from what I've seen from those in the "know" they're essentially the same. The gt500 has never liked rpm on stock bottom end. The rules of thumb to get one to stay together at elevated power levels is make sure you got plenty of octane (don't be too aggressive for the fuel with the setup and tune etc) and have respect to rpm (on the 5.4 it was don't go too much beyond the stock 6250 rev limiter and you should be ok) they can take a ton of power on stock motor if you keep these things in mind. Well where ford raised the rpm to help with 200 mph plus making it able able to do the 0-60 test in 1st gear only people will add power and get near that limit of the engine and continue to rev it high thinking its ok. Once you're making big power like 700-800+ rwhp it's a good idea to lower the rpm in which you rev it out to and I think sometimes with the 13 and 14 guys still rev them higher thinking it's ok and that gets them in trouble. This is just theories of mine based on what I've seen. The 5.4, ecspecially the iron ones in particular are much cheaper to replace (the block itself) should you ever need to because any truck or suv that had a 5.4 in it back in the day had the same iron block the early shelby had so more availability thus much cheaper. It is also significantly cheaper to build if you build your motor compared to an aluminum 5.8. They are better on paper and they make comparable power pulley combo for pulley combo running the same blower and supporting mods, the 5.8 will make that power on 2 psi less boost and makes little more torque like 30 or 40 usually based on what I've seen depending how far you push it (not like the 5.4 is hurting for torque it's a torque monster in its own right) this is due to the small improvements you discussed plus the displacement itself being about 20 or so cubes higher. Let's say both cars are running a gen3r with a 2.6 upper stock lower same supporting mods same fuel etc the 5.8 car would prob see 775/775 on 18 psi where a 5.4 would see 775/730 on 20 psi. These aren't exactly numbers just an example of what I'm talking about. I love both and they both sound basically the exact same exhaust wise so they both win in my book.
If you wanna stay stock or bolt on and aren't gonna swap blowers = 13-14
If you plan to mod it and are planning to swap blowers either way = 07-12.
This isn't to say you can't get a 13 and swap blowers or you can't have a 5.4 and stay volt ons because they can make a decent bit of power even with the 5.4 and small blower 600+ rwhp is possible with stock blower. That is just my general rule of thumb as to whats best depending on your plans with the car.
Just a few points to add to yours. Again good video.
Thanks man!! I appreciate it! You make a lot of valid points as well! My 13 already came with the whipple and cams so it's honestly over kill. I'm around 815rwhp at 14.7 psi. I definitely wouldn't need this blower to make that power lol. But I do like the 13-14s for the digital dash, carbon drive shaft, taillights etc. But yes the mods on my car are definitely overkill for the horsepower I'm at lol.
Spot on regarding redlining the 5.8 …. Cost me $30k to rebuild
@@fernandolimasiii729 A 5.4 will be cheaper to build….and wreck lol
@@TheHorseman351 I'm at 800whp on my 13 with just a pulley, intake, tune, and E85. With the injectors and BAPs to support the E85
@@ShelbyWithAShelby nice man! No headers or anything?
Also the 2011 to 2014 aluminum blocks came stock with the plasma arc wire transfer for each cylinder. The 2007 through 2010 had liners pressed in the cylinders. And that’s the same with the generation three coyotes, the GT350 and the newer GT500’s
2007 - 2010 were cast iron block. There were no pressed in liners
I really think it depends on what you will utilize your car for. I have a '13 GT500 and my only plans for it (originally) was to swap tires..perhaps suspension and make it a street weekend car. Of course that never happens so I just stuck to the basic bolt-ons(i.e. pulley, intake, throttle body, exhaust). These are things I can easily take off to bring back to stock(if need be and if the 13/14 starts appreciating car collector wise) and you still have a decent 727rwhp reliable street car. It is by no means an all out project car going for max hp/tq as it will take plenty of money to get either motor into the 850-1000hp range. At that point and with money being spent it really doesn't matter what block you have because you are forking out the money anyway and swapping major components anyway. If someone were to just want a quick street car (no max effort) with minimal bolt-ons I think the 13-14s have the advantage as you are starting out with more to begin with.
Good points!
The 2010 marks the end of an era! The epitome of Ford iron block history!
The Aluminum blocks are far superior in all ways
@@BC08 no.
@@Twobarpsi The aluminum 5.4/5.8 block is objectively superior to the NVH 5.4 iron block in every respect.
This includes ultimate strength and it is NOT even close.
The OE aluminum block has held upwards of 3200 HP - it also set the Texas Mile standing mile record over and over and hold the quickest and fastest pass in X275.
The iron block cylinder wall will not stay round above about 1400 HP and you WILL see significant main cap fretting at 1300-1400 HP.
Not the case with the aluminum block.
100 lbs lighter, will handle twice the horsepower, better windage management, superior is ALL respects.
Good stuff, I've a 14 with 7900 miles purchased from new...it is truly an amazing automobile..had many muscle cars in the past..this car way surpasses all my previous cars hands down.
Wanna sell it?
@@brentbrowning2041
No, but thanks Brent,she's a keeper.
@@jayyoung5423 I don’t doubt it!
Agreed.
On the connecting rod issue I'd like to point out there are two different ways they can be strong. How much torque (not hp) can they hold and how much rpm can they support. They are individual limits. For example boosted stock 4.6 3Vs aren't known to make a ton of power, but can actually do around 500whp as long as you keep torque in check. Any mods to make more power with the same boost should be used. This means the rods are torque limited, not power. Revving them too high will also kill them, but there's no benefit as they don't keep pulling that high. Conversely coyotes continue to make power above redline normally, so in those cases they the rods are rpm limited. You can boost them for way more power than a high rpm NA build because the rods are not primarily torque limited, unlike 3Vs
There *are* two ways they can be strong.
Compressive loading (cylinder pressure) and tensile loading (RPM).
While it is true that peak torque generally correlates to peak cylinder pressure …it is cylinder pressure that tries to compress the rod and not actually the engine’s torque output
Dream combo is a 13 GT500 with 6.2 Hellcat engine just for the sound. Anything over 600hp is enough for me where I live😅
@@lionsgarage I feel like the stock blower on the 2013 whines even louder as ling as you have a cold air intake
Heya Bro, where did you get your hood blanket with the snake emblem! I love this I want one ☝🏿 Thanks!!
It was actually on the car when I bought it. So I have no idea lol
@@TheHorseman351 okay it was worth the try!!
It's crazy how Ford uses smaller displacement engines the Chevy and Dodge you've got the 5.0 5.2 5.4 and 5.8 all smaller then the LS and Hemi but easily able to trade blows with them 2013 GT500 had like 662hp Shelby offered a 850hp package and a 1000hp package I feel like the 2013 GT500 platform isn't talked about enough kinda underrated just in my opinion. Then we got the 5.4 in the Ford GT smaller then the 6.2 LS in the Corvette and the 8+ v10 in the viper the one team got the Ford GT to 3000hp with a top speed of over 300mph on the stock engine block that's my favorite engine after the 5.2 voodoo
Well Said man!! Very true.
The 5.8 is what i want to put in my foxboxy eventually
I’ve got an 09’ that I bought thinking “just a blower swap” nothing else….. 7 years later
I’ve got $37k in the engine alone and another $40k in the other areas.
The car has spent almost 7 years being down (out of the past 8). Might get running soon but the point is that these cars are heartbreakers
Dang!! What year?
Tuners say the 5.4 is more reliable at high boost. A modded 2011-2012 5.4 seems to be best over the bunch with better wideband
I've heard the same honestly which is weird since the 5.8 has lower compression and should be easier on the rods. Not sure about the wideband. Wait... I have this backwards. 5.4 has less compression. So then yea I guess it's not that weird. 😂
@@TheHorseman351 5.8 has higher compression. Little heavier piston.
@@biffclaven3798 very true! I got them backwards lol! I believe the 5.8 has 9 to 1 where the 5.4 is 8.5 to 1. I guess that would put more strain on the rods
Wideband what? Wideband is a description. Do you know what you're even talking about?
@@2KCamaroZ28SS damn dude You upset? Was talking about how the 11 and up cars have better widebands than 2010
Soooo when are you going to 1/4 mile yours? And finally get that 10 second slip? If not 9s?
Hopefully within the next couple months
Guys talking about weight, the 500 has a passenger, zr1 doesn't
Would like to swap my 5.4 in my 07 Expedition for one of these high output 5.4s.... How much modifications will I be looking at ???
I honestly don't know all of what that would involve but I definitely think it can be done.
Why don’t you just rebuild your current engine with performance replacement parts
Also 5.2 🆚 5.4, don’t forget!
A major point left out is stroke. Since the Ford V8 is modular based since the early 90’s, bore spacing is set due to manufacturing line tooling. The major difference with the Condor motor vs the Trinity is the stroke. The major increase in displacement for the Trinity is a longer stroke which increases piston speeds. This is often looked at as a negative when increasing power but Ford made it work obviously. Increased piston speeds tends to limit rpm’s. This is why Ford limits the over rev feature on the Trinity engine. A square motor or oversquare motor will always be more accepting of rpm’s. Given how much power the Coyote motors have made more reliably and with much less boost I always wondered why Ford went with the Triton based engines for the GT500’s.
I believe the stroke is the same. At least with all the research I've done.
You're incorrect. The 5.8 Trinity gets it's extra displacement for larger bores, the stroke is the same as any 5.4. I have both.
The 5.4 on my truck always ran. But good lord i put more plugs in that motor then any ive ever owned
The Cobra 🐍 on/under the hood where did you get it ?
Not sure unfortunately. It was done by the previous owner
How much do you think a clean low mile 14 GT500 would go for ?
Depending on the car, options, and how low the miles are but probably around mid 50s to 60s
50's easy. A 2007 GT500 with low miles can be had for mid to low 30s, then put a little $ into it, and you can smoke a stock 2014 GT500.
Probably 60-65k these days, more if it has moon roof or is a vert.
I got a 2007 GT500 5.4L they have a lot of low end torque
We're the engines sand cast block?
Honestly not sure
Knock sensor’s too the earliest of the 5.4 up to 2010, had poor sensors, or not as effective, the 11-12. & 13-14 had far superior sensors!!
True statement!
Knock sensors are a joke. As with most sensors.
The 13-14 knock sensors are almost too good, as they detect almost any harsh vibration as knock, and can actually make the car a bit harder to tune
@@ShelbyWithAShelby thanks I didn’t know this,, I am having a problem with my 2010 it’s eating cats, just ordered a new set from BBK!! Thanks
will a 5.8 intake bolt up to a 5.4 4v Navi
Honestly not sure bud, I would want to say ya but I haven't done it
@@TheHorseman351 I'll contact Holley they make a low ram for the 5.8. I to think it will bolt right on, I don't want to use the coyote adapter plates. Thanks
I’m surprised that they top out at 850hp when the 4.6 in the 03 and 04 cobra could handle 1,000 hp. I would love to have either one of those GT500’s
Yes sir, there all fun!
@@TheHorseman351I retire in a little over four years and then my hunt will begin for one of those or a Boss 302.
@@gsdfan8455 heck yea, can't go wrong with either one.
@@TheHorseman351 I used to have an 04 terminator that a previous owner had tuned and ported to 475 rear wheel hp. I want to feel that power again.
@gsdfan8455 oh yea their amazing cars. I had a 03 termi
Do both engines use the same block?
Yes but the 5.8 is bored more
@@TheHorseman351 The more you know
The 11/12 5.4 and the 5.8 use the same block casting with minor machining differences.
The 2007-2010 used a cast iron block. Same block casting as the 5.4 truck engines actually.
@@BC08 GTK!
I had a 2011 Shelby GT500, When I found out about the 13,14 GT 500 traded it in on a clean low mile GT500,,an no mods for me,100% stock just turned 14k miles.
Heck yea man!! Great cars!!
Yeah, I have a 13. It is the only vehicle I've ever owned where I didn't feel like I needed to do something to it. It is bone stock except I got rid of those dogchit F1 tires and put MPSS tires on it.
Hmm...Hmm...Hmm...Hmm...Hmm...lol...good info tho.
John mihovitz the mod motor king and record holder for the 5.4 and 4.6 has a great article on the 5.4 vs 5.8
The 5.8 is nothing but a bored out 5.4 with the same stroke
The HEADS are the same
There is a theory that the 5.8 is stronger then the 5.4 not true I encourage everyone to read the article by John mihovitz
Please put the link to the article in here. I'd love to read it. 👍🏼
@@TheHorseman351 hey horseman can’t remember the title but google “mod motor misconception “ with John mihovitz
The 5.8 will also run 200MPH the 5.4 not so!!The 5.8 goes up to 7000 RPM!!
Yes sir, however the 7000 rpm is really only for over rev/short time purposes
@@TheHorseman351 true,but it was still offered on the 13-14 GT500.My page on here is COBRA THERAPY!!!,you should check it out!!
@@drfaticus heck yea man. Will do!!
@@TheHorseman351 Thanks alot.
187….when are you going to ever run that speed
O.4 more displacement really gets you nowhere it's simply that the 5.4 and 5.8 were built differently stock from each other one has a 2.0 blower the other one has a 2.3 blower
There's no question about it that the 5.8s are going to be better because those are the later years that were built better than the 5.4 version in stock form
Disagree
@@biffclaven3798 Blower for blower and pulley for pulley the 5.8 makes 30-35 rwhp than the 11/12 5.4.
Notable but not a massive difference.
@@BC08 which one is more reliable at those boost levels. You know the answer.
@@biffclaven3798 In general the 5.4 will be more reliable but it is largely due to the wider “safe” tuning window provided by the 5.4’s lower 8.4:1 compression ratio.
Ford 5.8 v8 trumps Ford 5.4 v8 not only in cubic inches but beefier in the block/heads...imho
5.8 didnt have a liner. 5.4 has a pressed-in liner.
Both have sprayed on plasma liners, never had pressed liners 😊
Long story short, buy a Boss 302, throw a blower on it and stomp on GT500’s.
Done.
- GT500 owner
Possible, but in my experience my 13 GT500 still walks supercharged 5.0s unless their built and pushing 1000 wheel lol
@@TheHorseman351 whatever you need to tell yourself.
@@R_Tower tell myself? I'm not sure what you mean. I have videos showing this lol. I love 5.0s I'm just being real
@@TheHorseman351 It is an undeniable fact that an equal HP Gen2/3 5.0 or Gen1 Roadrunner will hold more power and rev significantly higher than a GT500 AND weigh significantly less.
Our GT500’s are handicapped, they’re outclassed by coyote platform cars.
You’ve beat drivers on occasion however what I’m stating is not up for debate.
@@R_Tower I've been doing this a long time my guy. I never said that gen 2 and up couldn't hold more power. That being said they truly don't hold that much more power since we can hold 850rwhp, and in equal HP match ups I've had with coyotes I've won simply because the gt500 engines usually put out equal torque to horsepower. Somthing the coyote can't do. So yes, it's not up for debate.
I can tell you FOR SURE you are DEAD WRONG on the connecting rods and please DON'T ARGUE. ALL GT500 from 07 to 14 use the SAME connecting rods. I know some people would say then why 13 & 14 has different part number for the connecting rods than the 07 to 12.
The reason is 13/14 has new bigger pistons due to bigger 5.8L displacement. The new bigger pistons have buck-head underneath for extra strength due to higher combustion pressure result from the 2.3 L TVS at stock 14psi. In order to clear the buck-head, the SAME connecting rods small end need to chamfer for the extra clearance. This extra step of machining process requires a new part number for the 13/14 GT500 for identification / release process. Without different part number, people / engine builder can get the wrong part.
So at the end, actually the 13/14 GT500 has a smaller cross sections at the small end of connection rod.
If anyone tell you the 13/14 GT500 has stronger rod, they are NEITHER don't know anything or just flat lie to you.
Your coming on a little strong there buddy saying I'm "DEAD WRONG" lol I'm just going off what the chief engineer said in one of his interviews. And I even questioned in my video if they really were. Also there's higher combustion pressure also due to the 9 to 1 compression as compared to 8.5 to 1. Anyways thanks nonetheless. 👍
Not a good video, sorry.
No worries, everyone has their opinion. Thanks for at least watching.
Great video very informative.Thanks