I mean, lands are going to reamin powerful in commander if you run no land removal. Not mass, even just targeted. The utility lands aren't really to blame here, it's the common play style.
and here i am debating on running fulminator mage in my ashnod the uncaring deck if only because that deck is already strong enough i'm comfy running potentially repeatable land destruction
Nah I think that we're still solidly in the "utility lands aren't that big of a deal" position. For one, this pretty much REQUIRES big eldrazi tribal to be worth running in a deck. You need to exile a big colorless card, so even in a deck running 2 or 3 titans (which is quite a lot for a deck that isn't eldrazi tribal and typically utilizes commanders with multiple colors, making the colorless production even riskier than relying on 2-3 cards in conjunction with it), this would be such an infrequent occurrence that it would happen in what, one in every 10 games from an opening hand if you're lucky? For a land thats like ancient tomb but puts your finisher at risk of being exiled forever. The reason I think utility lands are totally fine is because not only is spot land destruction NOT taboo in any group I've been a part of, its also run in the majority of decks anyway. How many white decks have you seen that don't have a generous offering? How many green decks don't have a copy of beast within? No chaos warps in your red decks? "permanent" remove, not even "nonland permanent" removal, is already incredibly common in the format, players just don't want to spend resources on blowing up lands. But if the land is a THREAT then they are using their removal to deal with a THREAT which is exactly what its there for. And those are just the cards that 90% of people run in their colors anyway, let's not forget all of the colorless ways to deal with lands...in your own land base. If the complaint is that utility lands are too good because they don't take up a card slot (since they tap for mana) then the argument still falls flat, because there are multiple lands that also tap for mana that you can fit in YOUR land slot that deal with them.
the set symbol for planar nexus seems to be for the commander deck so its too early to tell if it will be added to the main set but legacy can use it i guess, But the Cave and the ugins nexus stand out for sure
I already run a couple of decks that punish nonbasic lands and just lands in general. So the more utilities people have the more effective my decks will be
Personally I dont have an issue with lands but I also run land destruction in every deck even if its just decimate or boseiju for a trouble utility land
I think people are forgetting where the value of this card lies. It's commander focused. Sure modern can run it, but the fact you have to exile a 7 cost card means there is already an issue. if you don't exile, no value.
Don’t think I would pick this over ancient tomb. An all colorless deck heck ya put her in but again would never crop rotation into Urza’s cave unless this pickings are slim
My whole friend group decided to not play with any utility lands unless they are a crucial part of the deck. Everybody agrees the game is way better without them. I strongly recommend you guys to try it out!
Opportunity cost is the most important question when it comes to utility lands. The big offenders almost always have an opportunity cost near 0. Ugin's labyrinth is a strong card but it has a meaningful building restriction: 7+ cmc colourless cards aren't bountiful in every deck.
My thoughts exactly. I think imprinting the 7+ card is a very demanding restriction. And it can't even help you cast said card if you ever get it back from underneath. I think the land is just fine.
I recently reworked my golgari commander deck to be a utility lands deck (not landfall tho that's too op), and I agree that lands are too good in commander.
I would say utility lands overall are fine. There are some stupid busted ones. This one is horrid card design and would only say utility lands have gone to far it this level of bad design becomes the norm.
planar nexus is going to be needed by the tron and locus decks in legacy. i wonder how expensive it is going to be and how much is going to break legacy if at all. ugin's labyrinth looks like up for debate edit: we need a lot of land hate in some way. if they only print catch up cards and no hate cards they are going to simply accelerate the game even further instead of printing strategies that punish greedy strategies like lands. winter moon doesn't look like a commander centric land. it looks like a mono white death and taxes land. in commander if you play this in casual i have to wonder how powerful are your casual games. if you play this in cedh and you are not in magda (maybe since the last deck i saw was at 9 basics) i have to know what is going through your head. so this card is for 60 card constructed. yeah i bet people with no self control will put it in their casual decks, but with the exception of mono color and 2 color decks and the occasional weird stax deck like jorn (who untaps all snow permanents when he connects) i doubt we will see them in our tables, because the effect is symmetrical and hard to build around effectively.
The counter play to these utility lands is stuff like strip mine. Wasteland Field of Ruin. Ghost Quarter and the myriad of other lands that can destroy other lands on top of cards like beast within Generous Gift. Acidic Slime. Avalanche Riders Casualties of War Decimate. Hell, i debated putting a copy of Fulminator Mage and / or Orcish Settlersin my Ashnod the uncaring deck before deciding that that would be too mean if i ever got it going
@@jmanwild87 the thing is that if the answer is other lands then the decks that can utilize them the best are other land decks. this is what happens in legacy. in cedh you don't to run that much land hate since from the strong ones i think only gaea's see consistent play. in casual edh it is up to your local meta. i personally run assassin's trophy and generous gift and beast within in all my casual decks that can play them. but that is not something that is for everyone. my izzet deck has zero land hate i thing and i can't run colorless lands because it is a niv mizzet deck and i need the colored lands
@@jmanwild87 you don't have to run an answer to everything. sometimes you accept that you are going to lose if something gets out of hand. you are better off focusing on removal that promotes your gameplan in commander instead of trying to stop others. so you straight up ending up not caring.
@@hellNo116 if you have issues with utility lands but refuse to run the answers available to ya. you lose the right to complain about it. it's like complaining about artifacts not because you're in mono black and don't really have efficient answers but because you just refuse to run it. Not losing to your opponent having a flipped itlomoc or storm the vault or cradle or so on means you're more likely to win. hell i mentioned fulminator mage specifically because it synergized with a commander i was tuning as well
as a completely unbiased windgrce onetrick i think lands arent an issue and in fact we need more and better one
I mean, lands are going to reamin powerful in commander if you run no land removal. Not mass, even just targeted. The utility lands aren't really to blame here, it's the common play style.
and here i am debating on running fulminator mage in my ashnod the uncaring deck if only because that deck is already strong enough i'm comfy running potentially repeatable land destruction
Nah I think that we're still solidly in the "utility lands aren't that big of a deal" position.
For one, this pretty much REQUIRES big eldrazi tribal to be worth running in a deck. You need to exile a big colorless card, so even in a deck running 2 or 3 titans (which is quite a lot for a deck that isn't eldrazi tribal and typically utilizes commanders with multiple colors, making the colorless production even riskier than relying on 2-3 cards in conjunction with it), this would be such an infrequent occurrence that it would happen in what, one in every 10 games from an opening hand if you're lucky? For a land thats like ancient tomb but puts your finisher at risk of being exiled forever.
The reason I think utility lands are totally fine is because not only is spot land destruction NOT taboo in any group I've been a part of, its also run in the majority of decks anyway. How many white decks have you seen that don't have a generous offering? How many green decks don't have a copy of beast within? No chaos warps in your red decks? "permanent" remove, not even "nonland permanent" removal, is already incredibly common in the format, players just don't want to spend resources on blowing up lands. But if the land is a THREAT then they are using their removal to deal with a THREAT which is exactly what its there for.
And those are just the cards that 90% of people run in their colors anyway, let's not forget all of the colorless ways to deal with lands...in your own land base. If the complaint is that utility lands are too good because they don't take up a card slot (since they tap for mana) then the argument still falls flat, because there are multiple lands that also tap for mana that you can fit in YOUR land slot that deal with them.
Insane card, urza saga is still by far the best land every printed.. a LAND that can win the game ON ITS OWN.. just look at vintage.. just nuts
the set symbol for planar nexus seems to be for the commander deck so its too early to tell if it will be added to the main set but legacy can use it i guess, But the Cave and the ugins nexus stand out for sure
I already run a couple of decks that punish nonbasic lands and just lands in general. So the more utilities people have the more effective my decks will be
Personally I dont have an issue with lands but I also run land destruction in every deck even if its just decimate or boseiju for a trouble utility land
I think people are forgetting where the value of this card lies. It's commander focused. Sure modern can run it, but the fact you have to exile a 7 cost card means there is already an issue. if you don't exile, no value.
You have to exile a 7 cost COLORLESS card on top of that, so the vast majority of decks can't simply slot this in in hopes of a high roll.
@@eewweeppkk that is what i mean. the fact it's restricted like that means this is at best a 30 not 70 to 80 dollar card
If your lands have more text than an enchantment you will attract my land destruction
Don’t think I would pick this over ancient tomb. An all colorless deck heck ya put her in but again would never crop rotation into Urza’s cave unless this pickings are slim
My whole friend group decided to not play with any utility lands unless they are a crucial part of the deck. Everybody agrees the game is way better without them. I strongly recommend you guys to try it out!
I think we reached the breaking point with the channel lands, not this though
Calling it a utility land is crazy
Opportunity cost is the most important question when it comes to utility lands. The big offenders almost always have an opportunity cost near 0. Ugin's labyrinth is a strong card but it has a meaningful building restriction: 7+ cmc colourless cards aren't bountiful in every deck.
I really dislike the neokamigawa channel lands exactly because of that. Nearly every deck is better off with a single copy of those
My thoughts exactly. I think imprinting the 7+ card is a very demanding restriction. And it can't even help you cast said card if you ever get it back from underneath. I think the land is just fine.
Love the avatar of your channel, since my first edh deck was a scarecrow tribal.
I started running wave of vitriol in my green decks.
I recently reworked my golgari commander deck to be a utility lands deck (not landfall tho that's too op), and I agree that lands are too good in commander.
Funny how planar nexus is less powerful than nearby planet, which is essentially a silver bordered card.
I would say utility lands overall are fine. There are some stupid busted ones. This one is horrid card design and would only say utility lands have gone to far it this level of bad design becomes the norm.
planar nexus is going to be needed by the tron and locus decks in legacy. i wonder how expensive it is going to be and how much is going to break legacy if at all.
ugin's labyrinth looks like up for debate
edit: we need a lot of land hate in some way. if they only print catch up cards and no hate cards they are going to simply accelerate the game even further instead of printing strategies that punish greedy strategies like lands. winter moon doesn't look like a commander centric land. it looks like a mono white death and taxes land. in commander if you play this in casual i have to wonder how powerful are your casual games. if you play this in cedh and you are not in magda (maybe since the last deck i saw was at 9 basics) i have to know what is going through your head. so this card is for 60 card constructed. yeah i bet people with no self control will put it in their casual decks, but with the exception of mono color and 2 color decks and the occasional weird stax deck like jorn (who untaps all snow permanents when he connects) i doubt we will see them in our tables, because the effect is symmetrical and hard to build around effectively.
The counter play to these utility lands is stuff like strip mine. Wasteland Field of Ruin. Ghost Quarter and the myriad of other lands that can destroy other lands on top of cards like beast within Generous Gift. Acidic Slime. Avalanche Riders Casualties of War Decimate. Hell, i debated putting a copy of Fulminator Mage and / or Orcish Settlersin my Ashnod the uncaring deck before deciding that that would be too mean if i ever got it going
@@jmanwild87 the thing is that if the answer is other lands then the decks that can utilize them the best are other land decks. this is what happens in legacy.
in cedh you don't to run that much land hate since from the strong ones i think only gaea's see consistent play. in casual edh it is up to your local meta. i personally run assassin's trophy and generous gift and beast within in all my casual decks that can play them. but that is not something that is for everyone. my izzet deck has zero land hate i thing and i can't run colorless lands because it is a niv mizzet deck and i need the colored lands
@@hellNo116 if you're really struggling with utility lands and can't play them yourself red has instants sorceries and even a few creatures,
@@jmanwild87 you don't have to run an answer to everything. sometimes you accept that you are going to lose if something gets out of hand.
you are better off focusing on removal that promotes your gameplan in commander instead of trying to stop others. so you straight up ending up not caring.
@@hellNo116 if you have issues with utility lands but refuse to run the answers available to ya. you lose the right to complain about it. it's like complaining about artifacts not because you're in mono black and don't really have efficient answers but because you just refuse to run it. Not losing to your opponent having a flipped itlomoc or storm the vault or cradle or so on means you're more likely to win. hell i mentioned fulminator mage specifically because it synergized with a commander i was tuning as well
So.... we can make 16 post....
Just start Playing mld whithout care
magic sux