If you allow a single card to beat your deck than you built a bad deck. Realize that there are specific cards that shut off your deck and plan for them by adding worthwhile interaction. house bans are pretty cool if the communication is solid
Ehhh...trying to make your casual deck handle every possible thing means running suboptimal or often dead cards. Monocolor and even 2 color decks just have to roll with not being able to solve certain rare issues. I'm not diluting my green stompy deck with a Helix Pinnacle to give me a 1% chance of beating Constant Mists which I might see 1% of the time. Now if you're saying "any deck that isn't a 4-5 color pile of goodstuff which can handle anything is a bad deck", yea that mostly true, but not really applicable to casual commander lol.
@@aimlessgun I've seen well-optimized cEDH decks fold to a single card. I suppose they're all bad decks too according to OP. Or maybe OP and other condescending people in this comment section should consider the fact that EDH is a singleton format with no sideboard so even the most optimized decks have the chance to get bodied by a random drannith magistrate or rest in peace or something. And that effect is multiplied when people are playing casual decks for the purpose of having fun as opposed to winning at all costs. While there are reasonable adjustments people can make it's all going to be relative to the power level/meta game of their regular playgroup, and if people would rather house ban a card than start an arms race and end up playing at a higher level than they initially intended then that's their right. As long as it's not just like one or two people banning things for the whole group out of personal distaste then who genuinely cares?
House bans are only good and viable when everyone in the group views bans as symmetrical. Unfortunately, too many people view bans from the frame of loss aversion, and naturally, those players are less likely to enjoy being content creators. It makes sense that a content creator crew have a successful housebanlist with such popular cards (i.e. rhystic study and Sol ring).
There are numerous ways to counterplay Constant Mists: - Skullcrack and similar spells that negate damage prevention. - Questing Beast and creatures with similar protection-bypassing abilities. - Grand Abolisher and similar cards that prevent the opponent from casting spells on your turn. - Thoughtseize and similar cards that force discard. - Possibility Storm and similar cards that "substitute" spells. - Gray Merchant of Ashodel and similar cards that drain life. - Counterspells. So many counterspells.
My old playgroup (when I first started playing magic during Khans) only played kitchen table magic; 2-6 players, 60+card decks, any card you had access to was available. We all built our decks from a shoebox collection donated by the friend who got us started. Didn’t even know about the different formats at the time, we were just “playing magic”. Collectively we agreed to stop playing Gary (Gray Merchant of Asphodel), because pretty much every deck we built had 4 of them and most games ended with someone playing Gary. We just got tired of always seeing, losing to, and winning with it. Everyone agreed to it, and we carried on and found other ways to win the game. Granted this was hyper casual, and Gary is nowhere near ban-worthy in EDH; but for our playgroup it was a drastic improvement to our enjoyment of the version of magic we played, however poorly we did it.
@@Awes0m3n3s5 honestly, I really do as well. It was a very innocent time, it was a great way to hang out and have fun, even though we got SO MANY rules wrong.
The problem with the MTGGoldfish group is, with the exception of Tomer, they refuse to play cheap interaction (because losing a game is so much better than losing card advantage, right?). All of these house banned cards stop being a problem when everyone at the table is jamming 5-8 answers to them in their decks.
House bans are the next best thing to do after thinking about why you don't like a card. It is never 1 specific card that upsets players into wanting a ban, it is poor analysing of a situation you became uoset about. I used to do it. I see everyone do it. I really disliked Torment of H, until i realised if someone has enough mana to kill me AND i dont have enough things around to save myself then there is a slight possibility they deserved to win. I disliked Insurrection, until i realised if everyone has enough damage on the board to kill someone else, then stealing them all and killing everyone with them is a win they deserved. I disliked Drannith Magistrate until i realised i probably dont deserve to win the game where one little creature completely derailed my gameplan. I disliked Voja until i realised how easy it folds to Wraths, deathtouch, flying and 3 opponents talking to each other and becoming allies. I disliked losing until i realised losing is more likely in Commander than any other format, and thus other people deserve wins just as much as i do. House bans solve nothing, they only add to the separation that is already dividing our community.
youtube just keep sending me here and to be honest i don't like most of your takes. House bans are fine, but soft banning someone deck just because one combo sounds really toxic, feels more like you playgroup is guilt tripping each other in to banning cards.
For real, if you are Voltron playing against someone who plays Constant Mists, play a Souls Fire or a Fling for goodness sake. Just include other ways to win through it.
Glacial chasm and pendrell vale both take tremendous advantage of unwritten edh rules to be incredibly unmanageable in casual edh. Probably the only cards i would recommend to house ban. I started running chasm and my playgroup adapted with more land destruction. You kinda have to choose one or the other. My playgroup chose land destruction and were all happier for it tbh.
I mostly prefer to play precons these days. I don't see the incentive to upgrade precons. Why would I want to play the same staple cards every game, and win with the same combos every time? Why would I want the game to end shorter? Commander isn't like other TCGs, it's more like a boardgame where each player brings a quarter of the board. I am not interested in playing sweaty games and winning on turn 3, I am interested in fun and socializing, maybe a bit of mental stimulation.
On wizards banning more cards... the only two considerations that they should make is if the card throws off the color pie to where it makes players favor running one color over the rest or if one strategy involving the card becomes hyper dominant. If you ban cards for being un-fun i.e. all the good stacs pieces, only fast combo decks will be viable. Lets say you wanna ban ebough cards so that strategies other than combo and stacs based decks can win at a cEDH table, then youd have to ban every 2 card combo in addition to the un-fun control cards and that could get messy. Ive come from yu-gi-oh and Ive seen first hand what being ban heavy does to a format
8:10 if you lose to a card like that you cant be mad at the person playing it. you should be mad at yourself for not holding up a spell pierce and punishing them for playing 8 mana spells
Also it's 8mana like anything 8 mana or above that does not let you potentially finish off and end the game is likely not playable in casual circles. Like commander is a game, their needs to be ways to end the game especially in situations where everyone has difficult to remove boards.
A lot of these cards are easy to deal with if you bring the right tools to the table. Also, there’s politics for when those types of cards get casted. Also, this is what blue is for 😅
clacial chasm is totaly on a similar if not even stronger leven then constant mist since you cant even counter the chasm wich is one of the best outs to constant mist
High Power (not cEDH) Constant Mists is not too oppressive or backbreaking. Most of the win conditions will be non-combat combos. Casual commander outside of cEDH, has some degrees to it. There are plenty of problematic or unfun cards that aren't good enough for cEDH that need a home. High Power is where you'll find them. Armageddon for example. It's in 0% of the top 16 cEDH decks. Glacial Chasm? If it's a problem for your deck, build around having answers. It's your own damn fault for not having sufficient answers. In power levels closer to 5-6, it's obviously harder to deal with because your card quality sucks, you're maybe on a budget, and you're playing more for fun than actually trying to win. High Power cares about winning quite a bit, so it will play nasty stuff. STILL CASUAL COMMANDER though, if you're going to slice the format only into two categories.
Me and my friends (playgroup of 3) play and I added maddening cacophony, my other friend then put it in one of his decks and then the 3 of us agreed that it’s too strong if not a feel bad card. House banning can very much help healthy if communicated properly and everyone in the group are at least decent people
Nothing about Maddening Cacophony is "too strong" unless you don't understand that being milled is the same as those cards never being drawn during the game. There are also tons of graveyard strategies that would love for their opponent to spend a card to dump half of their library into their graveyard.
@@Trisket seems obvious but I disagree, if your deck can draw consistently enough, it really does feel like you lost access to those cards. But like I said this is a friend group that’s playing so we’ve house banned certain feel bad cards like mind slaver and Armageddon. The issue was more so that we didn’t want everyone playing it especially in the same game
Look, man, I’m just passing through but I’ve seen a lot of your stuff in my feed recently and it’s all just complaining about the format as a whole. A whole lot of whinging. Do you actually enjoy EDH? Do your friends enjoy playing this game with you? I’m not asking this question as a judgement. I’m just hoping to spark a little self-reflection that if you have this much negative emotion shackled to the hobby, maybe it’s not healthy.
I won’t play in a group that hashouse bans. The regular ban list is already more than enough for me to try to keep track of. Also, most of the time it’s just people advocating for the ban of a card that they lost against.
Good, my lgs doing a house ban on thassa's and infinites is why they can get 30 people at their commander pods instead of the same 6 people who make it cedh
This argument is weak. Playgroups can self regulate themselves without bans. All strategies should viable. If a player wins on turn 10 - 12 no one should cry over it. We play everything from 20 dollar budget decks, to precons, to cEDH. Winning is part of the game. There are 4 players. Theoretically a good player can expect to win 25% of the time. If players can not handle it, go play a sport where everyone gets a participation trophy.
i like the idea of card editing, like make sol ring a boros card (it is afterall a sun) so it doesn't go in BUG decks, or make smothering tithe only activate after the first draw that player preforms that turn during there turn or rhystic study only triggers if an opponent plays a spell not on there turn
I have been thinking about banning sol ring in my playgroup, but that's because we tend to play lower power decks. In lower power decks, there is less removal and therefore its easier for one person to skyrocket ahead of the table. In higher power decks sol ring has less impact, because everyone is playing stuff like mana crypt and mox opal
Ain't nobody touching my Smothering Tithe out of my deck. Or my Sol Ring. Or my Mana Crypt. All I want is Radiation and Toxic+Proliferate decks to be banned rofl. 10 counters is too easy, even commander damage is 21.
Are you playing vintage, if not your a peasant, just stop playing the game. I mean thats your logic right. Hell lets get rid of every ban list, throw out the restricted list in vintage too. If you can't afford black lotus, you are just too poor for this game. If you had your way, this game wouldn't have lasted more than 5 years.
If you allow a single card to beat your deck than you built a bad deck. Realize that there are specific cards that shut off your deck and plan for them by adding worthwhile interaction.
house bans are pretty cool if the communication is solid
Ehhh...trying to make your casual deck handle every possible thing means running suboptimal or often dead cards. Monocolor and even 2 color decks just have to roll with not being able to solve certain rare issues. I'm not diluting my green stompy deck with a Helix Pinnacle to give me a 1% chance of beating Constant Mists which I might see 1% of the time.
Now if you're saying "any deck that isn't a 4-5 color pile of goodstuff which can handle anything is a bad deck", yea that mostly true, but not really applicable to casual commander lol.
@@aimlessgun I've seen well-optimized cEDH decks fold to a single card. I suppose they're all bad decks too according to OP.
Or maybe OP and other condescending people in this comment section should consider the fact that EDH is a singleton format with no sideboard so even the most optimized decks have the chance to get bodied by a random drannith magistrate or rest in peace or something. And that effect is multiplied when people are playing casual decks for the purpose of having fun as opposed to winning at all costs. While there are reasonable adjustments people can make it's all going to be relative to the power level/meta game of their regular playgroup, and if people would rather house ban a card than start an arms race and end up playing at a higher level than they initially intended then that's their right. As long as it's not just like one or two people banning things for the whole group out of personal distaste then who genuinely cares?
House bans get our of control quickly. I'd rather my opponents play proxies than ban higher power cards.
In my experience: 1. Playgroups discuss bans. 2. All Infect and Stax cards are banned. 3. All pods become combo.
House bans are only good and viable when everyone in the group views bans as symmetrical. Unfortunately, too many people view bans from the frame of loss aversion, and naturally, those players are less likely to enjoy being content creators. It makes sense that a content creator crew have a successful housebanlist with such popular cards (i.e. rhystic study and Sol ring).
There are numerous ways to counterplay Constant Mists:
- Skullcrack and similar spells that negate damage prevention.
- Questing Beast and creatures with similar protection-bypassing abilities.
- Grand Abolisher and similar cards that prevent the opponent from casting spells on your turn.
- Thoughtseize and similar cards that force discard.
- Possibility Storm and similar cards that "substitute" spells.
- Gray Merchant of Ashodel and similar cards that drain life.
- Counterspells. So many counterspells.
Players will house ban rest in piece, then play gitrog monster
My old playgroup (when I first started playing magic during Khans) only played kitchen table magic; 2-6 players, 60+card decks, any card you had access to was available. We all built our decks from a shoebox collection donated by the friend who got us started. Didn’t even know about the different formats at the time, we were just “playing magic”.
Collectively we agreed to stop playing Gary (Gray Merchant of Asphodel), because pretty much every deck we built had 4 of them and most games ended with someone playing Gary. We just got tired of always seeing, losing to, and winning with it. Everyone agreed to it, and we carried on and found other ways to win the game.
Granted this was hyper casual, and Gary is nowhere near ban-worthy in EDH; but for our playgroup it was a drastic improvement to our enjoyment of the version of magic we played, however poorly we did it.
I miss this style of magic haha
@@Awes0m3n3s5 honestly, I really do as well. It was a very innocent time, it was a great way to hang out and have fun, even though we got SO MANY rules wrong.
The problem with the MTGGoldfish group is, with the exception of Tomer, they refuse to play cheap interaction (because losing a game is so much better than losing card advantage, right?). All of these house banned cards stop being a problem when everyone at the table is jamming 5-8 answers to them in their decks.
Crim plays police mostly, though Tomer occasionally fills that spot, Richard advocates for some odd takes.
House bans are the next best thing to do after thinking about why you don't like a card. It is never 1 specific card that upsets players into wanting a ban, it is poor analysing of a situation you became uoset about. I used to do it. I see everyone do it.
I really disliked Torment of H, until i realised if someone has enough mana to kill me AND i dont have enough things around to save myself then there is a slight possibility they deserved to win.
I disliked Insurrection, until i realised if everyone has enough damage on the board to kill someone else, then stealing them all and killing everyone with them is a win they deserved.
I disliked Drannith Magistrate until i realised i probably dont deserve to win the game where one little creature completely derailed my gameplan.
I disliked Voja until i realised how easy it folds to Wraths, deathtouch, flying and 3 opponents talking to each other and becoming allies.
I disliked losing until i realised losing is more likely in Commander than any other format, and thus other people deserve wins just as much as i do.
House bans solve nothing, they only add to the separation that is already dividing our community.
Blood Moon just turns the game into Magic the Treasure Token.
youtube just keep sending me here and to be honest i don't like most of your takes. House bans are fine, but soft banning someone deck just because one combo sounds really toxic, feels more like you playgroup is guilt tripping each other in to banning cards.
For real, if you are Voltron playing against someone who plays Constant Mists, play a Souls Fire or a Fling for goodness sake.
Just include other ways to win through it.
@@PensFan96 How would you handle it as a GW voltron deck?
@@aimlessgun Ram Through, Grand Abolisher, Conqueror's Flail, ect.
House bans😂😂😂. This just makes your play circle smaller. I'd be like thanx for offering I'll be playing at the adult table
@@aimlessgun Grand abolisher-effects
My playgroup agreed to ban Mommy Norn because, in my Jodah deck, they didn't like me cascading into it.
Yes they won't let me unban Iona.
I don't care 🤷 about what people run. Honestly unless it gets officially banned you do you
that's why it's great that you can play your way and others can play their way.
@@ndexer tell that to the clowns who want a separate cEDH ban list
me playing armagedon:
I appreciate how straight to the point your videos are
Glacial chasm and pendrell vale both take tremendous advantage of unwritten edh rules to be incredibly unmanageable in casual edh. Probably the only cards i would recommend to house ban. I started running chasm and my playgroup adapted with more land destruction. You kinda have to choose one or the other. My playgroup chose land destruction and were all happier for it tbh.
I prefer no banlist cedh personally
I mostly prefer to play precons these days. I don't see the incentive to upgrade precons. Why would I want to play the same staple cards every game, and win with the same combos every time? Why would I want the game to end shorter? Commander isn't like other TCGs, it's more like a boardgame where each player brings a quarter of the board. I am not interested in playing sweaty games and winning on turn 3, I am interested in fun and socializing, maybe a bit of mental stimulation.
we really out here saying constant mists is ban worthy
yikes thats definitely a take
On wizards banning more cards... the only two considerations that they should make is if the card throws off the color pie to where it makes players favor running one color over the rest or if one strategy involving the card becomes hyper dominant.
If you ban cards for being un-fun i.e. all the good stacs pieces, only fast combo decks will be viable. Lets say you wanna ban ebough cards so that strategies other than combo and stacs based decks can win at a cEDH table, then youd have to ban every 2 card combo in addition to the un-fun control cards and that could get messy. Ive come from yu-gi-oh and Ive seen first hand what being ban heavy does to a format
4:54 this is the kind of cards that make me run Skullcrack effects in mono red.
What we really need is 2 separate ban list for cedh and edh and be done with this convosation
That just splits "cedh"
8:10 if you lose to a card like that you cant be mad at the person playing it. you should be mad at yourself for not holding up a spell pierce and punishing them for playing 8 mana spells
Sure, let me just add a spell pierce to my mono black deck
Also it's 8mana like anything 8 mana or above that does not let you potentially finish off and end the game is likely not playable in casual circles. Like commander is a game, their needs to be ways to end the game especially in situations where everyone has difficult to remove boards.
@@ecos889 I agree.
@@leonjakobsen272 skill issue
@@leonjakobsen272 You don't need to, just run Darkness.
A lot of these cards are easy to deal with if you bring the right tools to the table. Also, there’s politics for when those types of cards get casted. Also, this is what blue is for 😅
>mono red loses to fog
What is a skullcrack
>Bans rhystic study
>Wouldn't ban blood moon
DURRRRR
clacial chasm is totaly on a similar if not even stronger leven then constant mist since you cant even counter the chasm wich is one of the best outs to constant mist
Taxes are also a "necessary evil."
High Power (not cEDH) Constant Mists is not too oppressive or backbreaking. Most of the win conditions will be non-combat combos. Casual commander outside of cEDH, has some degrees to it. There are plenty of problematic or unfun cards that aren't good enough for cEDH that need a home. High Power is where you'll find them. Armageddon for example. It's in 0% of the top 16 cEDH decks. Glacial Chasm? If it's a problem for your deck, build around having answers. It's your own damn fault for not having sufficient answers. In power levels closer to 5-6, it's obviously harder to deal with because your card quality sucks, you're maybe on a budget, and you're playing more for fun than actually trying to win. High Power cares about winning quite a bit, so it will play nasty stuff. STILL CASUAL COMMANDER though, if you're going to slice the format only into two categories.
Me and my friends (playgroup of 3) play and I added maddening cacophony, my other friend then put it in one of his decks and then the 3 of us agreed that it’s too strong if not a feel bad card. House banning can very much help healthy if communicated properly and everyone in the group are at least decent people
Nothing about Maddening Cacophony is "too strong" unless you don't understand that being milled is the same as those cards never being drawn during the game. There are also tons of graveyard strategies that would love for their opponent to spend a card to dump half of their library into their graveyard.
@@Trisket seems obvious but I disagree, if your deck can draw consistently enough, it really does feel like you lost access to those cards. But like I said this is a friend group that’s playing so we’ve house banned certain feel bad cards like mind slaver and Armageddon. The issue was more so that we didn’t want everyone playing it especially in the same game
Constant Mist? I play a mill deck. Who cares?
yah combat damage is overrated. aristocrats for the win
Look, man, I’m just passing through but I’ve seen a lot of your stuff in my feed recently and it’s all just complaining about the format as a whole. A whole lot of whinging. Do you actually enjoy EDH? Do your friends enjoy playing this game with you?
I’m not asking this question as a judgement. I’m just hoping to spark a little self-reflection that if you have this much negative emotion shackled to the hobby, maybe it’s not healthy.
Bro dead ass just said he would ban constant mists over Rhystic Study. I’m out good bye gentlemen.
good thoughts
I can beat every deck except for Green Decks that play fogs 💀
The blob has spoken!
I won’t play in a group that hashouse bans. The regular ban list is already more than enough for me to try to keep track of. Also, most of the time it’s just people advocating for the ban of a card that they lost against.
100% agree
Good, my lgs doing a house ban on thassa's and infinites is why they can get 30 people at their commander pods instead of the same 6 people who make it cedh
This argument is weak. Playgroups can self regulate themselves without bans. All strategies should viable. If a player wins on turn 10 - 12 no one should cry over it. We play everything from 20 dollar budget decks, to precons, to cEDH. Winning is part of the game. There are 4 players. Theoretically a good player can expect to win 25% of the time. If players can not handle it, go play a sport where everyone gets a participation trophy.
i like the idea of card editing, like make sol ring a boros card (it is afterall a sun) so it doesn't go in BUG decks, or make smothering tithe only activate after the first draw that player preforms that turn during there turn or rhystic study only triggers if an opponent plays a spell not on there turn
I get so tired of seeing so many bad takes online because people simply don't understand how the EDH ban list works 🤦🤦🤦
It’s a recommendation. Nothing more.
I have been thinking about banning sol ring in my playgroup, but that's because we tend to play lower power decks. In lower power decks, there is less removal and therefore its easier for one person to skyrocket ahead of the table. In higher power decks sol ring has less impact, because everyone is playing stuff like mana crypt and mox opal
as a reanimator player ive thankfully never run into rest in peace but im dreading the day that i do
You have gud thoughts Mr blob
Stone of Erech is infuriating to me, with my Clavileño Tokens/Aristocrats deck. Literally everything i could do is based off dies triggers 😂
how can anyone listen to all this mic popping T-T
Ain't nobody touching my Smothering Tithe out of my deck. Or my Sol Ring. Or my Mana Crypt.
All I want is Radiation and Toxic+Proliferate decks to be banned rofl. 10 counters is too easy, even commander damage is 21.
This is a stupid and cringe comment. Please shut up.
I don't agree with these bans, go play pauper if you're poor.
It's not your play group
Their house bans don't affect you so why should you care
Are you playing vintage, if not your a peasant, just stop playing the game. I mean thats your logic right.
Hell lets get rid of every ban list, throw out the restricted list in vintage too. If you can't afford black lotus, you are just too poor for this game.
If you had your way, this game wouldn't have lasted more than 5 years.
Can’t they just proxy it
M30 is a thing so just print them at home