That's what happens when two respective people talk. They understand they gave have different views but still come together on an agreement. Wonderful country we live in to be able to express our own views with out being put down
This is how things should be done. Two people who obviously disagree and are very different can have a respectful conversation. In most cases you will find that you agree on far more than you disagree, and at least you can listen with intellectual honesty to the reasons behind someone else's position. I left the left because the left lost the ability to have a conversation without calling you every terrible name they can think of. Slander, threats, etc. I'm not conservative, but I have found that I can at least have reasonable conversations without being called names and without being threatened. So for the foreseeable future, I will be voting exclusively for republicans. Until such time as the left learns to have civil conversations again and to be intellectually honest, and to return to being science centric rather than their new ideological religion, I will not be voting for them Nor should you.
Healthy, civil arguments. Miss these. No one yelling the other down, no one throwing insults, no one making incredibly stupid arguments. Thank you, Gentlemen.
Have you seen how hard left circles are covering this? They have completely thrown Bill Maher out. They insist he is snuggling up to the right. It’s hilarious. At the end of the day they ultimately believe that conservatives are irredeemable and Bill is now a bad guy because he had civil discussion with Benny Shapp.
@@brasshouse-og which is funny because I feel he’s gotten to ra-ra Democrats because of Trump. Really, it’s because bill has been hard on the younger generation as of late during his new rules segments. But, they tend to completely miss his points
Except the guy making just that. ”Incredibly stupid argument ” about the fact that finland and other countries would be part of russia if not member of NATO. Do you really beleive this in the US? His entire argument is based on missinformation. Finland is not part of NATO. His entire argument just falls flat. Its really scary how this guy can just pull up dated to back up his missinformation. It is straight up lies just to prove his point. Scary. Please guys do your own research.
Great idea! We have a similar one in the UK between Alistair Campbell on the left, and Rory Stewart on the right. But Maher / Shapiro would be far better.
*They were both clueless.* Russia is pulverizing Ukraine. Europe is fine with it. Germans are actually changing their government to be more pro Russian.
The way these two guys from very differing political views engaged in conversation without resorting to profanity, hyperbole, or personal attacks is an example everyone should emulate.
No talking over each other, no bs wokeness, no performative statements and exaggerated gestures. Just two guys who actually believe what they are saying, rather than saying what they believe "their side" wants them to say.
And what's really sad is just 10 or 15 years ago this was normal and not shocking to people, that opposing sides could debate each other with respect and courtesy.
@@saqeralthawara2342 Are you sure Bill Maher is a Zionist? Is that why they don’t mention the hypocrisy of condemning Russia for what they’re doing to Ukraine yet turning a blind eye to what Israel is doing to Palestine or Saudi Arabia to Yemen?
@@wesleyhobbs2332 Actually, it is one respectable, sensible person and another who is silly but realises that those around him have gone completely gaga
Wow. This is the very definition of old fashioned, polite and respectful discussion, irrespective of what political leanings you might have. Well done and respect to both of these men.
Nothing but disappointment for Ben not calling out the ridiculousness of Maher’s suggestions if Russia being too ‘woke’ to go to war thanks to TikTok. It shows how clearly oblivious the two are of what this war is actually about, nothing but bureaucratic bullshit talked during this piece. There are major reasons for this war and almost none were discussed. As long as we ignore them people will stay sheep. Look up the war the Ukraine has been fighting for the last 6 years in Luhansk and Donetsk. Look at what the Ukraine did to Crimea after Russia annexed it. Look at the geographical significance of the Ukraine for Russia and ask yourself why they might want to take it versus having the US control it.
@@jiggymario8161 That's never gonna happen , Putin will never agree to that . Plus the last thing you want to do is provoke an unstable maniac with nukes!
@@jiggymario8161 Spot on observations , couldn't have stated it better. Also Ukraine isn't exactly a democracy , they've been corrupt for a long time and ran the country like a dictatorship. There president has shut down dissenting views and silenced his critic's! They should never be allowed to become part of NATO! I wouldn't be surprised if this whole thing was staged and he's really a puppet of Putin , this whole thing could be a ruse!
@@mmaxine1331 Yes, a calm rational one. Can't we just sometimes, agree to disagree. We (our nation, generals speaking) can learn a lot from a demonstration of rational discord, especially nowadays..
It shows how weird politics has become that it is refreshing to see a conversation between two people on opposite sides the aisle that are respectful to each other and both reject the crackhead woke stuff.
Maher has really, *really* mellowed out this last year. He was as contentious as literally anyone you could mention until he started realizing (last year) that his own side was gleefully destroying western Civ.
This is the way it was done in the old days as I was growing up. People with different opinions used to be able to conversate without all the anger, insults and threats. I salute these men for being able to talk at each other instead of going off on each other
But they are talking utter nonsense! Pro-Russian parties or on the rise. In Germany and France, the biggest gains were made by pro-Russian parties. Ukraine is getting pulverized, and Germans/French are perfectly OK with it. USA and lackey UK are finally getting ready to cut-and-run. And Putin is loved by his people for restoring their pride back. And Russia and China are 100% friends. Pretty much every thing they said was utter nonsense. But they did say all this nonsense in a civilized manner.
Ben should stick to what he knows, he comes off as a hell of a dumbass here, saying Finland is part of NATO, lol no it isnt its neutral, Bill is better except calling anyone cynical
Yes. He always tries to make things black and white/ binary, and angling toward the right wing. He's either intellectually dishonest or not very bright at all.
2:31 "take Kosovo back"?? Kosovo was within Serbian sovereignty since the founding of modern Serbian Republic whose territorial integrity was violated in 2008 by unilaterally declaring independence and stationing 3rd largest NATO base.
Absolutely. It's okay to disagree RESPECTFUL. Open minded debate to see the other point of view and get a different perspective not this my way or no way. As we see in DC. How are we as a species going to advance if we can't do this? Think of all the money and resources including life's.that could have advanced mankind. If you were a extraterrestrial life form that could travel the vast galaxies would you want to get involved with us?? I think not. Just food for thought don't know if it even exist as such. Like John Lennon imagine.
I've been saying for a few years now that Bill should nix the studio audience format. They're semi trained seals who have no idea how to react when challenged with counterpoints that don't reflect their own agenda then obnoxiously cheer to make up for being silenced with pure logic the minute before that. Bill's body language even suggests that it's getting old.
When he's with audience the show's staff are controlling them, they tell the audience when to applaud and when to stay in silence so that wouldn't make any difference.
@@samuelluria4744 “gents” ~ “gentlemen” = men who have their strength under control. IF that’s patriarchal I’ll take it. But don’t despair. There is also a matriarchy.
I respect Bill alot because he is willing to talk about sensitive topics without screaming or calling you a racist when he doesn't agree. He's exactly what a true old fashioned liberal is without the modern leftists unhinged mentality
@Arsenio Sadly the middle seems to be where the bulk of our population is, the hate and fear baited emotional nuts played by the lying news and power players that control them. Control them to the point where they can't even think for themselves and they just parrot whatever they think their side would want them to parrot. These guys are classic in their platforms, we call them moderates only because we see they can behave moderately, not because of their views, their views do differ greatly. They are the extremes, just not the extremists, the crazy extremists are our neighbors and friends, the ones who don't really even care what's going on, or what's truly best, they care about having a "side."
More of this, please. Mutual respect even through disagreement. No harsh words. No name calling. Just civilized discussion from smart men from opposite sides of the aisle.
@@davidwright873 We keep failing that lesson over and over again. Iraq and Afghanistan are good examples. Not everyone wants democracy and freedom. Some just want security.
@@davidwright873 WE don't even know what we want in this country. The rich want half a dozen homes, the middle class wants 1.5 and the poor want to be able to muster up rent.
@@davidwright873 Same thought was applied to Afghanistan, the "story line - we are chasing terrorist's", and now we are in country, lets "turn it into another Western Nation". Bring in all the NGO's and let them loose. Did it work.? If you look at Afghanistan, they tried to develop a Western style Nation (there are vlogs on YT on this) - did it work - NO, they returned to the Nation "they wanted to be" - just as they are now doing again.
So painful agreeing with Bill Maher over my hero "Ben Shapiro" but I couldn't agree more, nato is and has been outdated and should never have been encroaching on Russia, why does nobody remember the security conference in Munich in 2007, when Russia specifically said they could not accept this
I have a close friend that feels the same way you do so I’m not judging you for your opinion at all. But I find it disheartening that you guys believe we should be choosing who we can and can’t be friends with based on what the bully in the East thinks. Being angry that the US “stole your friend” is in no way grounds for a war. Ukrainian people exist. There’s more than just America and Russia. Ukrainians decided they wanted to be friends with America and they wanted to push for western values. Saying that they deserve to be bullied by Russia for wanting to be friends with America is about as un-American a thing as I could imagine.
This puts shame to every Sunday Morning show on the MSM. Whoever thought of this, thank you and great job Messers Maher and Shapiro; a thoughtful, respectful debate, kudos.
@@2367J Both sides say a lot of stupid stuff. The democrats are not always right, just like the republicans. Out of curiosity, what stupid stuff did he said?
I like how they disagree on practically everything, but yet they still can have a civil discussion on the subject matter while both coming to an understanding between the twoof them. If only our elected officials could understand this style of cooperation. Maybe we wouldn't be so politically divided between the left and right.
Finally, two well spoken respectful people coming together and expressing their views without resorting to bickering. Imagine if our government or even citizens could do such a thing and where we might be as a people or even country. It’s hard to sift through all the emotion based arguing and get to what really matters in this world.
What I love about this is that Bill is arguing a view that more closely aligns with Trump’s expressed view that we should have made Russia an ally, whereas Ben is arguing the foreign policy of Hillary Clinton, to prolong opposition to Russia. In other words, there’s nuance in their ideology that defy the standard left/right paradigm.
and it's a big part of his argument, saying NATO is a deterrent from Russia, while we literally see a war to prevent joining NATO. I just don't get how everyone says "naah, they just want to conquer the world, someone's next"
@Fernando Cunha Brazil and Argentina are not part of NATO either and they are doing very well BUT they have no border with Russia. Ask Japan, Poland, Romania, the Baltic States, Georgia, Slovakia, and Ukraine about how good Russia is. Putin wants to annex Ukraine and wipe it from the map like Hitler and Stalin did with Poland.
I'm from Poland. Ben Shapiro is completely in the right here. Japan and Germany turning to good is completely different. Japan and Germany were on their knees and defeated. Russia was NEVER defeated. Until the '89 and the fall of communism. They were constantly bullying their neighboring nations since their earliest days and never faced consequence! I heard that Himler turned to the Allied nations in the final months of the war to somehow form an alliance with them and crush Russia. And I just wonder if it wouldn't be beneficial to the world if that was done. Germany was already defeated and you could still judge them properly for their crimes, but AFTER crushing the Russian communism... But no, instead your leaders in the West, Churchill and that guy that replaced Roosevelt... I keep forgetting his name, got played by Stalin at Yalta... or was it Potsdam? Well, he played the West at both. And we ended up with what we ended up with.
Lmao polski give me a break. Russia bad? How about ukrainians slaughtering in most gruesome way polish in volhyn?...Bullying. lol Never mind they fought and died for all of us before becoming nazi soaps lmao. Bullying. Fuckin pro russian regions in georgia and ukraine so be it. West and germany destroyed russia sent bolsheviks. Communism germans invented to split and defeat slavic people. All the collaborators like poles and ukries are sooo blind..puppets. slava rossyii and fuck off with traitors of our slavic civilization long live russia. It was russia who was bullied for centuries...poles, swedes, turks, mongols, napoleon, hitler, nato. Russia was suppose to watch how kiev bomb russian donetsk for another 8 years? Give me a break. Russian nation has right to feel secure..they are a nuclear superpower they dont let russophobic ukraine regime install US army just few hundred miles from moscow.
You’re thinking of Harry S. Truman who followed Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Truman could have easily defeated Russia after the war ended with Germany because the United States was the only country that had the nuclear bomb. It took only 2 or 3 bombs dropped on Japan for them to surrender. Had Truman known what a tyrannical threat to the world Russia would be, who knows how he might have reacted. 10:45
@@KG-th3cr It almost feels weird, cuz we all are used to people screaming at each other when discussing such sensitive topics, my respect for both of are like 5 times more now 😇
Haha, I approached it from the other side, usually agreeing with Bill Maher’s views. Yet…I found myself decidedly agreeing more with Ben on this one. I think this is a very healthy productive way both sides of the isle can come together. Nothing unites people more than a common adversary.
Shapiro at 5:35: ‘Finland has been bordering Russia since 1949 as a member of NATO.’ Incorrect. Finland is only _now_ considering to become a member of NATO, following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
The real issue is the middle defense systems. Russian ICBM’s can carry prototype warheads that carry roughly a dozen smaller war heads. This technology negates all current known western defense systems. It assures the MAD principal. By nato placing middle defense systems closer and closer to Russia’s border, there is a possibility to shoot those mussels down, before they finish ascending, before the main warhead releases the smaller ones. This would allow the west to negate a nuclear strike. Which would allow us to launch our nukes without retaliation. Effectively ending the MAD principal. Furthermore, the idea that this is “blitzkreig is silly”. These people think Putin is trying to annex the entirety of Ukraine. The same people also act like the CIA and SOF haven’t been in Ukraine training soldiers since 2014. The Ukrainians are getting western intelligence and military aid. A “quick war” would result in massive casualties on both sides. For the length of the war, the current casualty numbers aren’t necessarily staggering. Russia clearly has strategic goals in this war: -1. backing the ruble with gold and being embargoed has allowed them to build strength world wide in the energy sector. This is crippling the west (countries like Germany laughed at Trump during his UN speech, now they are seizing Gasprom assets to keep their country running) and will only make Russia stronger as every day passes. US media can print lies all day, but the reality is bearing itself out. -2. New photographs show Ukrainian troops burning boxes of documents. A month ago the pentagon had to admit the dozen or so biolabs that existed in Ukraine which were American funded/run. Though they did all they could to deny involvement and brand it as a conspiracy theory. It is likely that Putin is working on obtaining as much compromising material as possible. The west might pretend otherwise, but the world knows zelenksy is no golden boy. And that Ukraine is a pit of corruption. -3. Global alliances are cropping up for Russia and China as the west and more namely the US continue to stop trade or Alienate themselves from dealings with nations they disagree with. By doing this, they allow Russia and China a legitimate excuse to grow closer, with other countries like Pakistan, India and Turkey playing along. -4. It is well known that fighting hasn’t stopped in Ukraine since 2014, in some areas like the Donbas, between pro Russian Ukrainians and the Ukrainian military/militias. I am sure that if any part of Ukraine is annexed, it will be areas such as these. So a thorough sweeping of the territory is expected. -5. The west has not stopped escalating since this began. Again, if Russia is patient, and doesn’t overstep it’s boundaries, it will gain a legitimate excuse world wide to take more and more action in regards to foreign military aid sent to Ukraine. They can win this war and come out looking nothing like an aggressor. Just my two cents. Russia is misunderstood by the west, much like eastern cultures were not so long ago. I feel that we paint them with a broad brush, with stereotypes like communism, strong men and cynicism. The truth is that Russian history is much older than 1917. No doubt that plays a big part, but since we never seek a cooperative stance with them, we never learn anything about them besides what we hear from ourselves. Seems kind of backward for a “democracy”
@@pokerone6489 > A month ago the pentagon had to admit the dozen or so biolabs that existed in Ukraine which were American funded/run. Though they did all they could to deny involvement and brand it as a conspiracy theory. There are no biolabs developing bioWMDs. Ukraine is far too corrupt to do it efficiently - 99% of all money sent to do such things would be stolen. US failed to make Ukraine to do much, much, MUCH more trivial thing - some very basic steps to reduce corruption, and you think they can safely, efficiently, and *totally secretly* run a WMD program. LOL... "Russia is misunderstood by the west". Exactly this is true about you and Ukraine.
@@pokerone6489 I agree with almost everything you said and I am no expert but I am familiar with a small bit about the smart missiles being installed near the border of Russia. I also heard that Putin retracted a little bit from that saying that he guesses the missiles are not as dangerous as he thought after all. I would also like to bring up that Russia has tons of propaganda against it's people as well. In Russia you are forced to take the vaccine from what I have been hearing from Americans in Russia. I am not trying to say Putin is especially bad compared to the west not at all. I think there is more to this story. The main thing I am concerned of is the globalist's and if they are backing Russia and China because it seems like the US is being slowly dismantled. I am not sure if you have read Anthony Sutton's book or heard any of his talks about National Suicide. It's about how the west gave China and Russia nuclear weapons and high end technology. I think til this day it is being denied. It was definitely denied back then but it is true that the west gave their secret technology away which would seem counter productive.
I love these civil discussions. Both sides can learn from this but I can understand being tired of the same old b.s. It takes someone special to remain civil. Much respect to both of y'all.
What they said, however, is total BS. Russians love Putin. Germans, and French have both voted for Pro-Russian parties proving that they are beginning to realize Russia is not the enemy, and China and Russia are friends now, more than ever. Pretty everything they said has already been proven wrong. They were BS'ing, but in a civilized manner. Still, utter nonsense.
BRAVO to both Shapiro & Mahr. It’s refreshing to see 2 people with opposing political views sit down and exchange thoughts without all the “theater” that usually accompanies this type of exchange. My faith in human-kind has slightly been restored. 🤘🤘
@@Itsamansworld1 can we borrow your alternate reality time machine so we can test that theory? Shapiro didn't debate it because you're talking about historical events and there is no point in debating it. You can't know what would have happened. So what is a childish tactic at best. Grow up.
"A person's only worth is their ability to pick rice." Pol Pot. The ultimate in equality, which is why Bill hates it. He's very smart. In pure communism you are human - nothing more nothing less. Perfect and pure equality. For those who behave it could be good. For those who want to fly their own flag-not so much.
@@justhikeit If you recall the beginning of the video, Ben started out by saying, basically, that all western attempts at ''ending'' or ''preventing'' such wars from taking place were rendered moot by a myriad complex factors. I think that actually having the gall to own up to this fact and publicly acknowledge it, is, in and of itself, at least worth its weight in gold.
God, I hate it so much when you americans are acting smart about Europe and our relationships. I'm from Slovenia, the first country that broke from Yugoslavia. We had a short war to get independent, it would last 6 days, after we surrounded and disarmed all JNA in our country, Serbs were ready to let us go out of YU, but then USA called Beograd and demanded to get us in check, so Beograd sent another wave of tanks and armored vehicles, so it took another 5 days to deal with that and after that USA realized it's hopeless and admitted us as first independent country. Still, you did try to backstab us and were willingly ready to risk more death because our independence wasn't going along your strategic interests around the world. Well, after this can of worms was opened, wars broke out all over YU, but rest assured, every ex nation of YU hates you for what you did to Serbs with those 78-79 days of bombings. Kosovo is part of Serbia and it always was, Tito made a mistake settling albanians there in hope albania becomes seventh state of YU, so Serbs became minority, then tried to use that chance and get independent. Same crap happened in Macedonia, but Macedons managed to extinguish rebellion there. Anyway, by taking Kosovo from Serbia, you basically made it acceptable for every region around the world, to go independent if they want to and you gave majority russian speaking regions in Ukraine, that were basically given to Ukraine during USSR by Georgian and Ukrainian USSR leaders, that had millions of russian citizens there, right to go independent. So now you got 2 breakaway regions in Ukraine, with majority Russian population trying to break away, after trying to have their russian identity canceled, language canceled and which were shelled for 8 years by Ukraine. Minsk agreement, that was guaranteed by France and Germany, that's supposed to solve this, was broken, France and germany didn't do absolutely nothing to make sure Ukraine sticks to it. At the same time you got nato pushing after fall of berlin wall toward east, usa lying to russians that rocket shields that were getting placed along the new nato border, are against iran, nato trying to literally surround russia by trying to get Ukraine, Georgia and Mongolia or Kazahstan in nato (which basically means nato tries to surround freaking biggest country in the world). Country that has a disputed territory can't get in nato, so russia hit georgia and got a part of it's territory to be disputed (S. Osetia), now it did the same with Ukraine. Russia actually asked if it can become part of EU and part of NATO, it was refused to be part of EU, because it's supposedly doesn't fit geographically in it and regarding nato, it was also refused, because one of russian conditions was to have equal status to usa and not be a vassal state to usa like european countries. Also, nato branded russia as the biggest threat to the alliance, so now you've got nato trying to surround Russia, building rocket shields, building us military financed biolabs that are collecting specifically russian dna in Ukraine, building up quick response forces and branding russia at the same time as the biggest threat to alliance and at the same time politicians in washington for everything going wrong in usa accusing russia, so naturally russians started looking at nato as legitimate threat to their safety. They were pointing out for years that Ukraine joining nato isn't acceptable to them, because it's a threat to their national security and balance of mutual destruction would be broken, all the responses from western politicians they were getting is that they'll do what they want and to mind their own bussiness. Hypersonic missile needs 5 minutes from Ukraine to Moscow, tanks would need few hours to moscow if nato decided to launch suprise attack, their military would literally need to be on high alert 24/7/365 on a few thousand kilometer long border. Last time they had to defend that border was against germans and they had millions of troops assigned there. It's just not a situation you want to be in. If nato got in Ukraine, USA would basically have knife on their throat and Russia would be at mercy of USA forever and it would be just a question when USA would slit their throat. They know that if they lose Ukraine they're long term doomed as a country and a nation. So now they're doing 3 things. They got breakaway regions under control, Ukraine can't get in nato, the regions they hold from Ukraine also provide 75% of gdp of Ukraine and without them Ukraine is now bankrupt and as Zelensky said, they need 5 billion dollars a month to even run the country. So Russia is in no hurry, because they protected their own citizens in those regions, they're killing and demilitarizing ukrainian army on the border of those regions and nato at the same time, they're wrecking Europe and partially USA in economy by keeping this war going and at the same time Europe and USA will have to give zelensky those 5 billion a month. They will probably never go for the rest Ukraine at all, because they're already doing enough damage with what they have and they can keep this going for years or for as long as it takes; until Ukraine agrees to neutrality and demilitarization and to stay out of nato, or until Europe forces Ukraine to do it, or until nato starts an open war with them. And in that case and if they start losing Ukraine or nato even manages to push into Russia, nuclear weapons will be used. They know they're done as a nation if Ukraine falls to nato, they decided they'll resolve this while their demographics can still handle it and while they might have some advantage over USA in missile systems and ICBM's. Russian people also know that, that's why 85% of them support this. But no one should really have any illusion that they'll somehow lose the war and bend the knee. In slavic culture, it's better to die with some dignity then go on your knees and there is nothing worse then getting on the knees in front of USA. So the more you people try to push them to get on the knees, the closer you are to turning into radioactive wasteland too. But they're not crazy and try to avoid it, what you people perceive as their threats when they talk about usage of nuclear weapons, isn't a threat, from their perspective they're talking to idiots and they're trying to explain, like you would explain to a child, what consequences of his actions would be. Marking Putin as he wants to be some savior is also kind of silly, this is not about him or his personal goals, he's not Biden, the guy literally spent last 20 years working day and night trying to improve lives of russians. He did decide to do it now, because he holds enough power in russia to actually be abel to launch those nuclear strikes and he isn't sure that after he is gone, due to corruption, if whoever comes after him will sell himself out like Gorbachov (which didn't get state funeral) or if he'll accept some american bribery. He's got country under control, so he wants to do it now.
Thank you Ben and Bill for a phenomenal show of civil debate. This debate was absolutely refreshing and intelligent. Needed and necessary and our country and in our politics today.
THANK GOD FINALLY. A respectful debate on current politics between 2 famous figures from the left and right? Please let’s keep doing this and we might actually have a democracy. Edit: We might actually have a constitutional republic* Edit 2: for the nerds. While often categorized as a democracy, the United States is more accurately defined as a constitutional federal republic. What does this mean? “Constitutional” refers to the fact that government in the United States is based on a Constitution which is the supreme law of the United States.
I noticed that too. I wonder if you meant to say Estonia since it Accurate and fulfills the illustration of the point - that our country bordering Russia has been a member of NATO for many years
Finland and Sweden have been defacto NATO members for a while. Sweden sells lots of canons and artilary shells. Alfred Nobel made money from Bofors gun-factory, NOT dynamite. Finland and Sweden collaborated with Germans in WWII, so now they are scared of Russia. But they are NOT pro-American. They love to USE America as a market, and for their own protection.
I always love hearing them talk to each other. It’s one of the best examples of people with different perspectives having a very functional, fruitful conversation and exchange of ideas. They argue points but they also just accept each other’s perspectives and opinions as well. Please continue doing stuff with Bill in the future 🥰
@@kevintewey1157 well I mean I'm not going to comment on your personal situation, however sure this is not part of that trip that you probably are on? 🤣😂
What Bill said about communism changing the psyche of a people is very true. I was born in communist Cuba and my parents came to the US when I was only 6yrs old. Most of our relatives that stayed behind have a very different mentally than my family. And the Cubans that migrate to US now are not the same kind of people that migrated early on.
@@kennystreamsthings Thinking as a collective vs like an individual. Any kind of individual success, freedom, personal responsibilty or ownership being punished under communism.
This is great. I know Bill studied history, so its great to hear his views in detail in a longer format. And Ben of course is a smart guy. Makes for a good convo. Great to see this interview 👍
Putin DID look at joining NATO. He decided against, we didn't stop him. And Ukraine had no plans to join NATO - part of their agreement with Russia was not join, and in return give up their nuclear weapons. What they DID want to join was the EU - not a military alliance.
Bill has a valid question, and I would wager the answer was "keep a boogie man so the weapons industry has a reason to keep pumping out weapons and technology to sell" .
This was a beautiful pairing! I like seeing discussions like this. No need to be insulting or threatening. No need to disrespect the other person. It was wonderful to watch all round
Impressed with the two arguing civilly. Was glad to see Maher come out against communism and agreed with a lot what he.said. We pushed Russia into the villain role.
Any mainstream liberal such as himself would do the same. You've spent too much time watching right-wing propaganda which paints everyone to the left of Trump with a broad brush....
@@aliAli-ty4rf I have been through the public school system, the news networks are 95 percent left wing and I don’t watch network news of any sort but I am brainwashed? You should look in the mirror. You aren’t the one who is a victim of propaganda and brainwashed? What is your news source? Right wing and left wing are arbitrary and undefined terms. My beliefs are based on principal. I have to live with and compromise on candidates because none of them are perfect. Trump is far better than the woke mob and sleepy Joe. I can admit fault and defects with him. I am not under any illusions and can admit those faults. He isn’t a god figure. I don’t quote him. I don’t idolize him.. Because I, not you, can see nuance and the fact that Trump, though he has zero filter on his mouth and is a ruthless business man who uses the law and his billions to his advantage, did a shit ton more to help the country than the geriatric puppet who currently holds office.
2019 Democrats: “Trump is try’n to start WW3” 2022 Democrats: “We need to start WW3” ……..good grief beam me up Scotty I’ve had enough of this hypocrisy!😖
@Simple Caps what base did Iran bomb? I’ve zoned out of politics. I print newspapers and even tho we’re a small town paper I can’t be this involved in politics everyday 😂
You are drastically overestimating the plan for NATO to invade Russia and Conquer it you don't know anything about this because you listening to two neoliberals one right neoliberal and one not-so-right neoliberal
@@whitesandandreef4919 But you can disagree with someone while still thinking that they're making sense, I mean if you're an honest person (By the way, this isn't me saying anything about Bill Maher, just generalizing).
Maher is getting older and he sees his team has gone coo coo for coco puffs and he is scrambling to find some semblance of sanity. Finally! Sensible conversation among two people that don’t have to agree on everything… loved it.
Finland, which shares a 1,340km (830-mile) border with Russia and, like Sweden, is a Nato partner after abandoning its position of strict neutrality at the end of the cold war, is expected to outline its decision regarding the alliance before midsummer
That's actually how two typical Americans who have opposing views actually talk to each other. The Political divide in America is highly exaggerated by the Political establishment and the media. Most Americans are either moderates or libertarians. Only about 30% are actually liberals or conservatives. America is too big of nation to only have 2 ways of thinking.
@UAE Emirates I'm sure he misspoke. You've obviously never done any public speaking or spoke on camera in a conversation with someone. You only have so long to get a point across and you're trying to get as much information into a sentence as possible. It's far easier to debate someone in written words when there's generally no time limit. I actually watched an old interview with President Kennedy where he kept referring to South Vietnam as South Korea and kept referring to Cambodia as Burma and he's considered one of the most intelligent Presidents in US history.
@UAE Emirates But would you be so quick to point that out if he shared your Political logic? That's the problem I see with our whole Political thinking in America it's all a brain dead wasteland of hypocrisy and it's spun to fit our world view. If it doesn't match up to our preconceived notions, we disregard it as propaganda or irrelevant. I like being challenged to think outside my comfort zone. I just enjoyed seeing people of 2 opposing ideologies have a polite discussion on this topic. The media wants people like me to hate liberals and for them to hate people like me and I think that's plain ignorant. I don't agree with Bill Marher on most of what he talks about but I respect the fact he tries to base his opinions on logic and his understanding of things and not talking points from the DNC or Woke Cancel Culture crowd like most liberal commentators do.
Shapiro is wrong about Finland being a member of NATO. It's concerning that he can insist it so strongly with a back story of when they joined and everything, yet be flat out wrong about it.
I've seen Ben Shapiro and Steven Crowder both say that Finalnd is a member of NATO confidently... It's concerning when you see them so wrong because it really makes you question what else they get wrong.
I have a lot of respect for Ben, but he does get A LOT wrong specifically on this issue. Domestically i think he is generally on the money - but geopolitics? Nup.
Shapiro speaks fast, thus gets some things wrong. It was a cringe worthy moment. Finland is part of the EU, which does have defensive policies similar to NATO's, albeit not identical. Trouble is, Fimland has not been invaded by Russia after WW2 not because of the EU, but because of a treaty USSR had with Finland and Shapiro completely missed that. Not to mention no one seems to talk about the strategic reasons Putin had to invade Ukraine, which have nothing to do with the Kievan Rus. Namely that Ukraine is a stopper for the Northern European Plain that funnels towards Russia, thus making control of it paramount from a Russian perspective (Maher may have been on to something there, albeit naively, obliquely and possibly unintentionally as well). The second reason for Russia to invade Ukraine, from a Russian perspective, is the fact Ukraine has the 2nd largest deposits of natural gas in Europe, right behind Russia. They are not exploited atm, but should they be - sonething Ukraine was trying to do and being blocked as much as possible by the Russians, Russia would lose both billions as well as influence over the EU, with Germany being head of that list. Those natural gas deposits are in territorial waters belonging to Ukraine, in the Black Sea. Crimea controls half of it, the southern coast controls a lot and Snakes' Island covers much as well - it's why the Russian Navy occupied an otherwise forgotten and empty speck of dirt in the Black Sea. To note how the Russian military is staying close to those areas, along Southern Ukraine, from Transnistria all the way to Donbas. Anyway, both Shapiro and Maher missed points and made mistakes, from Finland being in NATO to ignoring much about the weight of the EU in Europe of all places. The point of their segment was to suggest dark times ahead and the need for unity in facing them, in a rather clumsy, yet touching and cute manner.
Yeah I rather fight the socialist here in our country we have too many older people who have seen communism they want to use the younger people that give what they want and those younger people think they can do better just because they didn't see communism. Not knowing that the young people are going to be used as cannon fodder and executed because they're not needed and also they know too much.
Communism/Socialism works fantastic if they can free themselves from the plunder and oppression from the imperial "democratic" countries. See ---> China. They now make your USA look like a third world country and now have even more freedom than USA. But you're probably too brainwashed by your media/ government. ALL your "democratic" countries only succeed because they plundered from their colonized countries. And now that your USA is running out of countries to plunder, we can see it's self destructing. Experts predict USA will become a third world country in 30 years. Karma is a f**king bi*ch, ain't it?!!!
I’m a total conservative but I always loved Bill. He speaks his mind but is also self aware and sees value in hearing everyone’s opinions right or left.
We have no idea how NATO and the west dealt with Russia after the USSR fell … maybe overtures were made maybe not. Ben nails it, Russia and its leaders possibly had no interest in western democracy. Hence, the Russian people allow a Putin to gain and remain in powers. Assuming certain beliefs about what the west may or may not have done at to reaching out to Russia is irresponsible.
@@arcguardian In 1990 HWBush and secretary of state James Kaker promissed Gorbachov that they would not expand NATO influence "one inch eastward" from Germany. There have been 5 Nato expansions eastward (almost 14 countries) since and some of them share borders with Russia. The missile issue in Ukraine borders is also not a good look to NATO. I think it's dangerous to ignore 30 years of NATO expansion and just assume Putin woke up two weeks ago wanting to make Russia great again. But that's just me reading into history..
Putin said the work to drive democracy forward in russia was one of his goals in 2005, when he also said that the fall of the USSR was the " biggest geopolitical disaster of our times". Well, he certainly didn't invoke democracy, and now he has invaded a country that he wants to bring back into russias fold. Its pretty clear that he is ideologically driven.
@@marcofurtado5459 well ever since yeltsins shelling of the parliment building - ending all hopes of russian democracy (which it did) , probably convinced Nato to not trust what they had first seen after the fall of the ussr. On the other hand Nato has tried to get closer to russia many times despite this and forming council like deals with russia but they have all been rejected.
I'm so happy to see you two continue to have dialogue on tough issues. So much of what we hear is the big media's interpretation (vaccine mandates, critical race theory, cancel culture, etc.) versus intelligent and thought provoking dialogue you guys continue display (while staying respectful). Love it!
Bill missed totally, that Russians don't want amerikan Rokets on their Border. There's no difference to US interests. Amercans don't want Russian Rokets on their Border to Mexico for example. Or is it like if the US does it then its ok?
If we could get people from deferent backgrounds that have deferent political views to sit down and just talked it out America would definitely be in a lot better shape. AMEN
@@azuresage1067 Only one side is attacking. Col. Allen West was attacked by a mob yelling black lives matter to a black man. They then went after the women who invited him to speak. This happens to all conservatives on college campuses. Three left leaning news personalities were at an event at the university of Chicago. There wasn't a conservative mob shutting down the conversation. Students with a different opinion waited in line to be part of the debate. Of course Stelter and Apple refused to answer questions from conservatives. If someone wore a Bernie shirt to a Trump rally they would be welcomed in. Try that with a Trump hat at a Bernie event.
It's wonderful to see two people having a discussion even disagreeing at times yet having a reasonable basis for the disagreement. Each of which seeing the others point of view agreeing to disagree and moving forward with the conversation. Absolutely fantastic
Check your facts. Finland is one of NATO's most active partners and has been a valued contributor to NATO-led operations and missions in the Balkans, Afghanistan and Iraq. Finland is one of six countries (known as 'Enhanced Opportunity Partners'1 under the Partnership Interoperability Initiative) that make particularly significant contributions to NATO operations and other Alliance objectives. As such, the country has enhanced opportunities for dialogue and cooperation with the Allies.
@@leocalderon8604 wrong....they absolutely are not members of nato...after russia's invasion both nordic countrys Sweden and Finland consider joining'.....
по видео я понял, что русские плохие, что мол Запад сам хотел видеть Россию в НАТО, а Россия злая, потому что не хочет видеть американские базы в своей стране и каждый день говорить: Да богославит бог Америку! И им посрать что при Горбачеве и при Путине Россия спрашивала у США насчет присоединения в НАТО. На что нас нахуй послали, попутно присоединяя в НАТО все пост-советские страны кроме России. Такая странная политика не должна ли была насторожить Россию? Которая стремиться иметь полный суверенитет от США и не быть под их влиянием, а просто стать партнером. Эти люди так разглагольствуют будто их страна является королем мира и всегда им будет, а остальные - подданные.
Just wished I could live in a neutral country instead of the US colony Germany. Never thought that our politicians could stick that deep in the a** of the US. But they occupy it ... The US could or probably didn't want to denazify Germany.
I am neighbor with Russia and Ukraine and I did studied in school a lot about their common history but do not interfere into their fight. Nowadays even if some are thousands of miles away and did not studied not even 1 hour of both States history they can interfere.
Absolutely, there was a historical moment to change the course of world history, to end the evil arms race. I mean Turkey is a part of NATO for gods sake. It's literally insane.
Dear Sir, President Putin suggested Russia should join NATO in 1999 to then President of the United States Bill Clinton. His suggestion was REJECTED. So, what is the purpose of NATO? They don't want to admit Russia, yet they keep surrounding her by installing nuclear missile in neighbouring countries. What is NATO's goal?
They always need to have an enemy. Russia as an allie would have destroyed the entire narrative and our need for huge military budgets. Imagine how devastating this would be to the industrial military complex.
What a well articulated and thought provoking conversation. I am seeing more and more personalities from both sides of the aisle engage in civil discourse recently and it's a breath of fresh air. The podcast format is such a healthy alternative to a 3 minute """"debate""" on primetime where both speakers try to get their opponent in a "Gotcha!" moment for sound bites to be played for weeks after
It is? Really? You could have fooled me. I thought the irony was so thick here you couldn't cut it with a knife. I had to listen to them preach to me how Putin craves Kiev because it's the ancestral source of his nation and Milosevic craved Belgrade for the same reasons. And yet, considering both of their ethnic backgrounds somehow the exact equivalent situation in the modern state of Israel and Jerusalem is entirely lost on them. DUH!
@@Norvik_-ug3ge Yes, that’s insane how they are debating over something they clearly have no knowledge of. I do understand it’s a hot topic, but check your facts
Американцы, которые лезут в политику других стран по всему миру и ведут себя как экономический диктатор, которые уничтожили миллионы в своих интересах - называют Россию плохой. Это просто абсурд.
I'm actually impressed by the amount of good points both men are making here. Ben is right that the West in their hubris thought that they could beat Russia by charming them, and that sometimes we need to get rough. Bill is correct that we cannot continue to be the world's police and that NATO definitely has some responsibility in alienating Russia.
Neither jew mentioned the actual reason putin invaded. He needs ethnic Russians and eastern orthodox believers or else Russia will be a Muslim majority
“Get rough with them”? How? Wave our finger over the nuclear launch button? I mean, just look at Russia’s take on the US sending arms to Ukraine and it being an act of war by the US. You seem to not understand that a US/Russian conflict has the likelihood of mutually assured destruction. If you’re going to advocate for the US to get right with Russia, you should make sure you have all your affairs in order.
@@Teodede It's not just destruction of US and Russia. That conflict will most likely cause nuclear winter and changes to world we currently cannot even dream about. With death toll over 98 percent of population, even extinction isn't ruled out.
this is the first Ben Shapiro that makes no sense and shows that Ben knows nothing about what is occurring or why it occurred. He's literally ignorant to the actual realities.
Nice that these two from very different sides of the political aisle can sit down and have a civil conversation while disagreeing. Interesting to hear both perspectives. We need more conversations like this.
Lol the irony of two pro-Israel Jews talking about how it’s unreasonable to want to wage war on a peoples who are occupying a vague notion of your ancient homeland is pretty funny to me.
5:33 "Finland has been bordering Russia since 1949 as a member of NATO". That statement is 100% false. Finland is not and has never been a member of NATO. Finland has since the end of the second world war kept a policy of armed neutrality. Finland has a been member of the EU since 1995 mainly for economic reasons.
@@KennethBoneth When Ben mention the Baltic Countries: Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania and after that Finland they all share a common past as a part of the Russian Empire that Putin seems hellbent to re-establish. Neither Norway nor Sweden have ever been under control of Russia, in fact Russia has its origins in Swedish Vikings settling in first Novgorod and later Kiev. So the most sensible thing if Putin insist on rolling back through history would be to #MakeRussiaSwedishAgain ;)
I think this was my favorite part of the whole conversation. Both had different perspectives to understand the dilemma we face as a whole, not just our country but other countries too. Still think Bill was right in this scenario, we should have had a better approach to how we treated the Russians after the fall of the Soviet Union, instead we kept giving them the cold shoulder yet have the audacity to question why Putin disregard the West's opinions. We put more effort to have a relationship with China who has taken for granted the alliance the West has to then throw it back in our faces, a country that is after materialist goods than a cohesive world. And it's not the US's job to act like the world police, we needed let other countries get the chance to defend themselves and not rely on us to solve every problem, it just creates more problems in the long run.
This approach was a disaster here in the US though, removing Federal troops from the South after the Civil War. This led to rapid growth of the KKK, Jim Crow, lynching and an actual coup of state govt. in NC in 1898. We JUST passed an anti-lynching law in 2022--with 3 Dems, err, I mean Republicans voting against. We were kinder to the insurrectionists rather than the innocent slaves, who were just trying to reunite their families and be regular citizens. One of our original sins has been difficult to eradicate, and whitewashing hasn't helped matters
It's a bit sad how little real information and knowledge guys with that much authority in public opinion have. Bill talks about Kosovo in 1989 and says it wasn't part of Serbia but Kosovo was de facto and de jure part of Serbia until 2008 when they declared unrecognized independence. Shapiro talks how Finland would be part of Russia if it wasn't in NATO while Finland still isn't part of NATO in fact they are all over the news because they want to join but Turkey is blocking them. Then they talk about Stalin with total disregard of different propaganda pictures both nations have of him. In Russia generations and generations of people were born and raised on stories and history of Stalin the man who won the most important war in history of the entire World, a man who brought victory in great patriotic war, the most horrific war in history of Russia a war in which every Russian family gave it's sacrifice, while in the US generations were raised on hating Stalin a brutal tyrant, a dictator whose evil is matched only by Hitler. Edit: oh and Russia, with Putin as president, actually tried to get in to EU and NATO.
@@Mdebacle He also said that Finland is a NATO member since 1949. As for those countries I am not sure, there is a lot of talk about Russian expansion, but they established those 2 Russian majority "republics in Georgia, they didn't take the whole thing, and it's not like they couldn't, I mean president of Georgia ate his tie when they attacked. Ukraine will most likely end up smaller but not annexed.
Shapiro is right on point. As a person living in the Baltic States I can assure you that there is this overwhelming feeling that Russian troops sooner than later would've been here if not for NATO. And I've heard the narrative in our media and among the people about a possible Russian invasion here literally since I was a child. That's why the financial and any other support from our countries to Ukraine is so huge- we just know it could've been us. As for USSR collapse, don't forget that a vast part of Russians saw it as a great tragedy. The totalitarian regime has gone but that mentality is still there. So, yeah, NATO is still very much necessary.
Bill seems to be intentionally failing to get Ben's point on the difference between our post-war attitude with Germany and Japan and or post-cold war attitude with Russia. He seems to be debating that we had to occupy the former, as if been were arguing that we were wrong to do so, but been is simply saying that our attitude with ALL three was to be suspicious of their inclinations and intent on demonstrating that we would suppress any bad actions they might contemplate after (even because of) their defeat. In the former case, we used military occupation. In Russia -- because we had not actually invaded and vanquished them -- we had to limit ourselves to demonstrating the same intent by maintaining NATO as a bulwark against them. Same difference. Bill then goes on to forget his own point when he says that we forced the emperor to declare himself mortal, which was a humiliation to him, not noticing that testing Russia as not one with Europe and the west was just as much a slight to them. Same difference, bill. If you want to argue that being more "friendly" and trusting of Russia would have led to something other than Putin's autocratic belligerence, fine -- I think that's naive -- but you can't use the post-WWII response as your argument without sounding silly.
I love Bill Maher, simply because he is mature enough and secure in his own thoughts to debate with anyone, not just those who believe the same that he does.
One honest question for you. what's your opinion on Israel? Israel took a land that they believe they have lost thousands of years ago. Now a completely different nation lives there. Do you have the same opinion about Israel too?
Good on Bill and Ben for sitting down and having a conversation. It’s a skill I think many are re-learning as we de-polarize/get our minds around the fact that conversations require listening. Good on them
I like Ben most the times, but really....he has no clue about foreign politics. Bill hit´s it perfectly. The mistakes we did 30 years before are hunting us down now.
Dude Ben is right putin rejected the idea of nato also the Russians are completely different to the Japanese and Germans. Also putin was always going to do something like this
@@Jade-tf5kb NATO Is per Definition a Military Alliance against russia. How can he not reject it? It is ridicolous to believe russia should accept ukraine being a NATO member. It‘s like saying the USA should accept that canada joining a Military Alliance with China Named AntiUS.
Seeing Bill and Ben having a civilized discussion on current events without the audience cheering or booing is so refreshing
Thats what I said. It was actually nice to see Mahar as respectable.
@@kuraikenshi2349 yeah when bill doesn't have the trained clapping seals to play to makes a difference
I can only wish Maher had such civilised discussion with Trump. One can only dream.
To someone without a brain.
Yea like when so-called "tolerant" far left groups shout down republican speakers while refusing to engage in any debates.
You two debate way better than our current politicians.
I agree with you in that statement. 👍🏼
So true !
That's what happens when two respective people talk. They understand they gave have different views but still come together on an agreement. Wonderful country we live in to be able to express our own views with out being put down
It’s not a debate, it’s an interview
This is how things should be done. Two people who obviously disagree and are very different can have a respectful conversation. In most cases you will find that you agree on far more than you disagree, and at least you can listen with intellectual honesty to the reasons behind someone else's position.
I left the left because the left lost the ability to have a conversation without calling you every terrible name they can think of. Slander, threats, etc. I'm not conservative, but I have found that I can at least have reasonable conversations without being called names and without being threatened. So for the foreseeable future, I will be voting exclusively for republicans. Until such time as the left learns to have civil conversations again and to be intellectually honest, and to return to being science centric rather than their new ideological religion, I will not be voting for them
Nor should you.
Healthy, civil arguments. Miss these.
No one yelling the other down, no one throwing insults, no one making incredibly stupid arguments.
Thank you, Gentlemen.
And no loud obnoxious audience hooting applauding at any point they may agree with.
Have you seen how hard left circles are covering this? They have completely thrown Bill Maher out. They insist he is snuggling up to the right. It’s hilarious. At the end of the day they ultimately believe that conservatives are irredeemable and Bill is now a bad guy because he had civil discussion with Benny Shapp.
Yes because they created Nato to fight Russia
@@brasshouse-og which is funny because I feel he’s gotten to ra-ra Democrats because of Trump.
Really, it’s because bill has been hard on the younger generation as of late during his new rules segments. But, they tend to completely miss his points
Except the guy making just that. ”Incredibly stupid argument ” about the fact that finland and other countries would be part of russia if not member of NATO. Do you really beleive this in the US? His entire argument is based on missinformation. Finland is not part of NATO. His entire argument just falls flat. Its really scary how this guy can just pull up dated to back up his missinformation. It is straight up lies just to prove his point. Scary. Please guys do your own research.
We need so much more of this. These guys need to do a regular show; people from the left and right having civilized discussions in good faith.
I have not heard such an abundance of verbiage even from grandmothers on a bench near the entrance.
Great idea! We have a similar one in the UK between Alistair Campbell on the left, and Rory Stewart on the right. But Maher / Shapiro would be far better.
Bill is not from the left dude is a centrist
*They were both clueless.* Russia is pulverizing Ukraine. Europe is fine with it. Germans are actually changing their government to be more pro Russian.
The way these two guys from very differing political views engaged in conversation without resorting to profanity, hyperbole, or personal attacks is an example everyone should emulate.
But both are Zionists
No talking over each other, no bs wokeness, no performative statements and exaggerated gestures. Just two guys who actually believe what they are saying, rather than saying what they believe "their side" wants them to say.
And what's really sad is just 10 or 15 years ago this was normal and not shocking to people, that opposing sides could debate each other with respect and courtesy.
And no audience members clapping every time Maher speaks like in his show.
@@saqeralthawara2342
Are you sure Bill Maher is a Zionist?
Is that why they don’t mention the hypocrisy of condemning Russia for what they’re doing to Ukraine yet turning a blind eye to what Israel is doing to Palestine or Saudi Arabia to Yemen?
They both have a mutual respect for each other. We need more of this instead of buying into the cultural cancellation
Yes. However, it is two respectable, intelligent people. There are very few of those left.
@@wesleyhobbs2332 Actually, it is one respectable, sensible person and another who is silly but realises that those around him have gone completely gaga
both of them think trump lost the election
@@JoefromNJ1 He kinda did and kinda didn’t. It's very gray matter but both of them seem to be seeing only black and white in it.
@@Juide80 what?
These two have great chemistry. They may disagree on many things, but that’s what makes these conversations so important. We need more of this!
They have a lot in common.
They're both zyonst israhell first America second.
This is because two adults are having legitimate conversation... WE HAVE FORGOTTEN HOW TO ADULT
We can learn a lot, listening to these two.
Agree. Love to listen to these guys.
More of this and less of Trumps sour stupidity.
I am Polish and I can not believe that I am so impressed with Ben Shapiro’s understanding of history and politics post WWII.
I don't always agree with him, but he definitely develops an extremely intricate understanding of foreign conflicts and diplomacy.
Of course... you're Polish after all! xD
Regardless of whether I agree with him on a given subject, there's no denying that he's brilliant.
He is good sometimes, and sometimes he is just brianwashed fanatic depends on topic i guess
@grumpydinosaur2347 I will say, agree or disagree, he is one smart little S.O.B. 😀
Wow. This is the very definition of old fashioned, polite and respectful discussion, irrespective of what political leanings you might have. Well done and respect to both of these men.
Yeah , i don't agree with Maher on his politics , but he's been way to reasonable lately. That's probably why the left is turning on him!
Nothing but disappointment for Ben not calling out the ridiculousness of Maher’s suggestions if Russia being too ‘woke’ to go to war thanks to TikTok. It shows how clearly oblivious the two are of what this war is actually about, nothing but bureaucratic bullshit talked during this piece. There are major reasons for this war and almost none were discussed. As long as we ignore them people will stay sheep. Look up the war the Ukraine has been fighting for the last 6 years in Luhansk and Donetsk. Look at what the Ukraine did to Crimea after Russia annexed it. Look at the geographical significance of the Ukraine for Russia and ask yourself why they might want to take it versus having the US control it.
@@jiggymario8161 That's never gonna happen , Putin will never agree to that . Plus the last thing you want to do is provoke an unstable maniac with nukes!
@@jiggymario8161 Spot on observations , couldn't have stated it better. Also Ukraine isn't exactly a democracy , they've been corrupt for a long time and ran the country like a dictatorship. There president has shut down dissenting views and silenced his critic's! They should never be allowed to become part of NATO! I wouldn't be surprised if this whole thing was staged and he's really a puppet of Putin , this whole thing could be a ruse!
These kind of civilized debates were common. Remember William F. Buckley and Gore Vidal?
Bill should do this more often. This was a real debate. Get more opposition people on your program.
conversation
Agreed!
Lol debate? Your sweetheart kept trying to avoid simple questions and Bill had to hold him accountable like he's a babysitter 😂
@@mmaxine1331 Yes, a calm rational one. Can't we just sometimes, agree to disagree. We (our nation, generals speaking) can learn a lot from a demonstration of rational discord, especially nowadays..
Ours Shapiros show not Mahers.
It shows how weird politics has become that it is refreshing to see a conversation between two people on opposite sides the aisle that are respectful to each other and both reject the crackhead woke stuff.
Agree.
Like the good Ole days.
Still, both are completely wrong on this topic.
@@denroy3 Don't be shy, do elaborate.
Maher has really, *really* mellowed out this last year. He was as contentious as literally anyone you could mention until he started realizing (last year) that his own side was gleefully destroying western Civ.
This is the way it was done in the old days as I was growing up. People with different opinions used to be able to conversate without all the anger, insults and threats. I salute these men for being able to talk at each other instead of going off on each other
But they are talking utter nonsense! Pro-Russian parties or on the rise. In Germany and France, the biggest gains were made by pro-Russian parties. Ukraine is getting pulverized, and Germans/French are perfectly OK with it. USA and lackey UK are finally getting ready to cut-and-run. And Putin is loved by his people for restoring their pride back. And Russia and China are 100% friends. Pretty much every thing they said was utter nonsense.
But they did say all this nonsense in a civilized manner.
Two smart people with different points of view having a civilized discussion. We used to see this all the time. We need to see it again.
Ben is a not very smart person
They don’t interrupt one another.
Ben should stick to what he knows, he comes off as a hell of a dumbass here, saying Finland is part of NATO, lol no it isnt its neutral, Bill is better except calling anyone cynical
Yes. He always tries to make things black and white/ binary, and angling toward the right wing. He's either intellectually dishonest or not very bright at all.
That is because MAHER is more a '' CLASSIC LIBERAL '' as opposed to the'' PROGRESSIVE '' Piece CRAP !
Proof that a television audience does absolutely nothing to raise the intellectual or civil level of discourse in this country. More of this, please.
Nothing wrong with having an audience as long as they just shut up and listen instead of clapping and making noise
2:31 "take Kosovo back"??
Kosovo was within Serbian sovereignty since the founding of modern Serbian Republic whose territorial integrity was violated in 2008 by unilaterally declaring independence and stationing 3rd largest NATO base.
Absolutely. It's okay to disagree RESPECTFUL. Open minded debate to see the other point of view and get a different perspective not this my way or no way. As we see in DC. How are we as a species going to advance if we can't do this? Think of all the money and resources including life's.that could have advanced mankind. If you were a extraterrestrial life form that could travel the vast galaxies would you want to get involved with us?? I think not. Just food for thought don't know if it even exist as such. Like John Lennon imagine.
I like this format better than with a studio audience. I think having an audience detracts. Good job gents.
I've been saying for a few years now that Bill should nix the studio audience format. They're semi trained seals who have no idea how to react when challenged with counterpoints that don't reflect their own agenda then obnoxiously cheer to make up for being silenced with pure logic the minute before that. Bill's body language even suggests that it's getting old.
USA: 😉Its ok when we do it, ignore it its all in the past . 😠🤬But when u do it is evil.
Calling people "gents" is SOOOOO Patriarchal......🙄🙄🙄......like, get OVERRR your OLD social constructs, pfff! Like, TOTALLY!🙄🙄🙄🙄
When he's with audience the show's staff are controlling them, they tell the audience when to applaud and when to stay in silence so that wouldn't make any difference.
@@samuelluria4744 “gents” ~ “gentlemen” = men who have their strength under control.
IF that’s patriarchal I’ll take it.
But don’t despair. There is also a matriarchy.
Putin asked to be a member of NATO
and was told no deal.
Look it up.
Ikr
You think these two clowns care about facts?
I respect Bill alot because he is willing to talk about sensitive topics without screaming or calling you a racist when he doesn't agree. He's exactly what a true old fashioned liberal is without the modern leftists unhinged mentality
@Arsenio People don't know where the middle is anymore. It's just sad now. But on your point I agree.
@Arsenio Sadly the middle seems to be where the bulk of our population is, the hate and fear baited emotional nuts played by the lying news and power players that control them. Control them to the point where they can't even think for themselves and they just parrot whatever they think their side would want them to parrot. These guys are classic in their platforms, we call them moderates only because we see they can behave moderately, not because of their views, their views do differ greatly. They are the extremes, just not the extremists, the crazy extremists are our neighbors and friends, the ones who don't really even care what's going on, or what's truly best, they care about having a "side."
YES! he is a true classic liberal, and now a days classic liberal is considered almost republican compared to the woke left
"The middle" is not necessarily rational and moral, it's just a compromise between two ideologies.
So everyone forgot how he acted the last 4 yrs? Yeah, I say this is an act. He is an actor.
More of this, please. Mutual respect even through disagreement. No harsh words. No name calling. Just civilized discussion from smart men from opposite sides of the aisle.
Amen..we are starving for healthy debate.
Platform= The most damaging word/concept this century for free speech and healthy discourse.
The View, are you watching? I can just see Joy's "duhh" face and Whoopi "suck it up" man!
Not civilized when he keeps interrupting and cutting off Maher when he's stating facts. Again trying to censor facts he wants to conceal
@@jsavak99 Perhaps but it's already light years ahead of what we usually get, in terms of quality.
Yes, I get tired of the gotcha clips you see on youtube of 1 debater getting over on the other .
It is so refreshing to hear polite discourse between two intelligent people.
Well done, gentlemen!
Ben is so right..We, in the West, think EVERYBODY wants what we want....They don't....That's our biggest problem...
@@davidwright873 We keep failing that lesson over and over again. Iraq and Afghanistan are good examples. Not everyone wants democracy and freedom. Some just want security.
Benny boy is a neo con. He openly supports war in Syria and middle East. Don't be fooled.
@@davidwright873 WE don't even know what we want in this country. The rich want half a dozen homes, the middle class wants 1.5 and the poor want to be able to muster up rent.
@@davidwright873 Same thought was applied to Afghanistan, the "story line - we are chasing terrorist's", and now we are in country, lets "turn it into another Western Nation". Bring in all the NGO's and let them loose. Did it work.? If you look at Afghanistan, they tried to develop a Western style Nation (there are vlogs on YT on this) - did it work - NO, they returned to the Nation "they wanted to be" - just as they are now doing again.
So painful agreeing with Bill Maher over my hero "Ben Shapiro" but I couldn't agree more, nato is and has been outdated and should never have been encroaching on Russia, why does nobody remember the security conference in Munich in 2007, when Russia specifically said they could not accept this
ukraine broke an agreement between Rusia and ukraine, it was serious agreement, that a is a cause for war, unfortunately
@@scarletj.salazar6706 Name the agreement!
@@mdjey2 Minsk agreements
@@skanderbeg1751 Ukraine didn't broke it. Check the facts. Russia started fire seconds after agreement.
I have a close friend that feels the same way you do so I’m not judging you for your opinion at all. But I find it disheartening that you guys believe we should be choosing who we can and can’t be friends with based on what the bully in the East thinks. Being angry that the US “stole your friend” is in no way grounds for a war. Ukrainian people exist. There’s more than just America and Russia. Ukrainians decided they wanted to be friends with America and they wanted to push for western values. Saying that they deserve to be bullied by Russia for wanting to be friends with America is about as un-American a thing as I could imagine.
This puts shame to every Sunday Morning show on the MSM. Whoever thought of this, thank you and great job Messers Maher and Shapiro; a thoughtful, respectful debate, kudos.
This is the beauty of podcasts too. Long form conversations without interruptions , TV breaks, and sycophantic audiences.
More please!
Just a small notice as Ben has gotten some things wrong:
1. Finland isn't part of NATO
2. Russia actually applied to NATO but was denied.
Ben don’t care about your facts.
@@daron9229--You still think that Socialism is a good system, and Communism is worth another try, because this time, it'll be better.
Russia applied to NATO during the cold war.....also known as trolling. Just saying.
@@ronmcmartin4513 ?
@@ronmcmartin4513 The old adage about assuming comes into play here--and this time the ass isn't a donkey
It’s amazing how smart Bill Maher sounds when he doesn’t have a drooling studio audience hooting at his every word.
...and dogging Trump every few seconds.
That's when he had just his staff there. It's getting back to normalcy.
Because he's right on this. The rest of the interview he said plenty of real stupid stuff.
Never seen both these guys so serious..
@@2367J Both sides say a lot of stupid stuff. The democrats are not always right, just like the republicans. Out of curiosity, what stupid stuff did he said?
I like how they disagree on practically everything, but yet they still can have a civil discussion on the subject matter while both coming to an understanding between the twoof them. If only our elected officials could understand this style of cooperation. Maybe we wouldn't be so politically divided between the left and right.
Zionists
They both are lying
Finally, two well spoken respectful people coming together and expressing their views without resorting to bickering. Imagine if our government or even citizens could do such a thing and where we might be as a people or even country. It’s hard to sift through all the emotion based arguing and get to what really matters in this world.
I'm like this my whole life.
And people like me are rare...
It's not hard to sift through emotion based arguments, actually you're right, it's pushed out through every media.
Imagine if all people decided war is not an option and only the hire ups got into the ring… lol… never
This is the world I grew up in ……. would love to see it come back
Yes. However, it is two respectable, intelligent people. There are very few of those left.
What I love about this is that Bill is arguing a view that more closely aligns with Trump’s expressed view that we should have made Russia an ally, whereas Ben is arguing the foreign policy of Hillary Clinton, to prolong opposition to Russia. In other words, there’s nuance in their ideology that defy the standard left/right paradigm.
Who would’ve thought!
Why I won't ever vote for Ben to be president. He'd get us into a pointless war in the blink of an eye.
There is no room for nuanced thinking & debate in today's culture...I demand that UA-cam ban this video!
Amazing if we can get that in the white house and in congress.... 😞😓 hopefully one day when the Bidens and Pelosis of the political spectrum are gone.
Ben's a neo-con; Hillary's a neo-lib. They both love war
Finland is not and has never been part of NATO, only cooperates in military exercises with them abroad.
Sincerely,
a Finn
@Fernando Cunha This was more of a reply toward Ben's claim which was false.
Welcome to nato
and it's a big part of his argument, saying NATO is a deterrent from Russia, while we literally see a war to prevent joining NATO. I just don't get how everyone says "naah, they just want to conquer the world, someone's next"
@Fernando Cunha Brazil and Argentina are not part of NATO either and they are doing very well BUT they have no border with Russia. Ask Japan, Poland, Romania, the Baltic States, Georgia, Slovakia, and Ukraine about how good Russia is. Putin wants to annex Ukraine and wipe it from the map like Hitler and Stalin did with Poland.
@Fernando Cunha you said about Sweden, Switzerland and Austria not Finland. Don't change the subject!
I'm from Poland. Ben Shapiro is completely in the right here. Japan and Germany turning to good is completely different. Japan and Germany were on their knees and defeated. Russia was NEVER defeated. Until the '89 and the fall of communism. They were constantly bullying their neighboring nations since their earliest days and never faced consequence!
I heard that Himler turned to the Allied nations in the final months of the war to somehow form an alliance with them and crush Russia. And I just wonder if it wouldn't be beneficial to the world if that was done. Germany was already defeated and you could still judge them properly for their crimes, but AFTER crushing the Russian communism... But no, instead your leaders in the West, Churchill and that guy that replaced Roosevelt... I keep forgetting his name, got played by Stalin at Yalta... or was it Potsdam? Well, he played the West at both. And we ended up with what we ended up with.
Lmao polski give me a break. Russia bad? How about ukrainians slaughtering in most gruesome way polish in volhyn?...Bullying. lol Never mind they fought and died for all of us before becoming nazi soaps lmao. Bullying. Fuckin pro russian regions in georgia and ukraine so be it. West and germany destroyed russia sent bolsheviks. Communism germans invented to split and defeat slavic people. All the collaborators like poles and ukries are sooo blind..puppets. slava rossyii and fuck off with traitors of our slavic civilization long live russia. It was russia who was bullied for centuries...poles, swedes, turks, mongols, napoleon, hitler, nato. Russia was suppose to watch how kiev bomb russian donetsk for another 8 years? Give me a break. Russian nation has right to feel secure..they are a nuclear superpower they dont let russophobic ukraine regime install US army just few hundred miles from moscow.
Pffff... Sure, it was better for Soviet people left you all suck Germans... Oh, wait a minute, you are doing this now😅
Truman was the VP of Roosevelt. So when he died Truman came into office.
You’re thinking of Harry S. Truman who followed Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Truman could have easily defeated Russia after the war ended with Germany because the United States was the only country that had the nuclear bomb. It took only 2 or 3 bombs dropped on Japan for them to surrender. Had Truman known what a tyrannical threat to the world Russia would be, who knows how he might have reacted. 10:45
If it wasn't for Russians, you would have never been born.
Don't care for Bill Maher generally but I give him props for coming on Bens show and keeping it civil.
His arguments were quite sensible tho
@@kunjupulla True.
@@KG-th3cr It almost feels weird, cuz we all are used to people screaming at each other when discussing such sensitive topics, my respect for both of are like 5 times more now 😇
The last year Bill has really come around imo
Haha, I approached it from the other side, usually agreeing with Bill Maher’s views. Yet…I found myself decidedly agreeing more with Ben on this one.
I think this is a very healthy productive way both sides of the isle can come together. Nothing unites people more than a common adversary.
Shapiro at 5:35: ‘Finland has been bordering Russia since 1949 as a member of NATO.’
Incorrect. Finland is only _now_ considering to become a member of NATO, following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Fuck the facts
The real issue is the middle defense systems. Russian ICBM’s can carry prototype warheads that carry roughly a dozen smaller war heads. This technology negates all current known western defense systems. It assures the MAD principal. By nato placing middle defense systems closer and closer to Russia’s border, there is a possibility to shoot those mussels down, before they finish ascending, before the main warhead releases the smaller ones. This would allow the west to negate a nuclear strike. Which would allow us to launch our nukes without retaliation. Effectively ending the MAD principal.
Furthermore, the idea that this is “blitzkreig is silly”. These people think Putin is trying to annex the entirety of Ukraine. The same people also act like the CIA and SOF haven’t been in Ukraine training soldiers since 2014. The Ukrainians are getting western intelligence and military aid. A “quick war” would result in massive casualties on both sides. For the length of the war, the current casualty numbers aren’t necessarily staggering. Russia clearly has strategic goals in this war:
-1. backing the ruble with gold and being embargoed has allowed them to build strength world wide in the energy sector. This is crippling the west (countries like Germany laughed at Trump during his UN speech, now they are seizing Gasprom assets to keep their country running) and will only make Russia stronger as every day passes. US media can print lies all day, but the reality is bearing itself out.
-2. New photographs show Ukrainian troops burning boxes of documents. A month ago the pentagon had to admit the dozen or so biolabs that existed in Ukraine which were American funded/run. Though they did all they could to deny involvement and brand it as a conspiracy theory. It is likely that Putin is working on obtaining as much compromising material as possible. The west might pretend otherwise, but the world knows zelenksy is no golden boy. And that Ukraine is a pit of corruption.
-3. Global alliances are cropping up for Russia and China as the west and more namely the US continue to stop trade or Alienate themselves from dealings with nations they disagree with. By doing this, they allow Russia and China a legitimate excuse to grow closer, with other countries like Pakistan, India and Turkey playing along.
-4. It is well known that fighting hasn’t stopped in Ukraine since 2014, in some areas like the Donbas, between pro Russian Ukrainians and the Ukrainian military/militias. I am sure that if any part of Ukraine is annexed, it will be areas such as these. So a thorough sweeping of the territory is expected.
-5. The west has not stopped escalating since this began. Again, if Russia is patient, and doesn’t overstep it’s boundaries, it will gain a legitimate excuse world wide to take more and more action in regards to foreign military aid sent to Ukraine. They can win this war and come out looking nothing like an aggressor.
Just my two cents. Russia is misunderstood by the west, much like eastern cultures were not so long ago. I feel that we paint them with a broad brush, with stereotypes like communism, strong men and cynicism. The truth is that Russian history is much older than 1917. No doubt that plays a big part, but since we never seek a cooperative stance with them, we never learn anything about them besides what we hear from ourselves. Seems kind of backward for a “democracy”
@@pokerone6489 > A month ago the pentagon had to admit the dozen or so biolabs that existed in Ukraine which were American funded/run. Though they did all they could to deny involvement and brand it as a conspiracy theory.
There are no biolabs developing bioWMDs. Ukraine is far too corrupt to do it efficiently - 99% of all money sent to do such things would be stolen. US failed to make Ukraine to do much, much, MUCH more trivial thing - some very basic steps to reduce corruption, and you think they can safely, efficiently, and *totally secretly* run a WMD program. LOL...
"Russia is misunderstood by the west". Exactly this is true about you and Ukraine.
He must be referring to Norway
@@pokerone6489 I agree with almost everything you said and I am no expert but I am familiar with a small bit about the smart missiles being installed near the border of Russia. I also heard that Putin retracted a little bit from that saying that he guesses the missiles are not as dangerous as he thought after all.
I would also like to bring up that Russia has tons of propaganda against it's people as well. In Russia you are forced to take the vaccine from what I have been hearing from Americans in Russia. I am not trying to say Putin is especially bad compared to the west not at all. I think there is more to this story. The main thing I am concerned of is the globalist's and if they are backing Russia and China because it seems like the US is being slowly dismantled.
I am not sure if you have read Anthony Sutton's book or heard any of his talks about National Suicide. It's about how the west gave China and Russia nuclear weapons and high end technology. I think til this day it is being denied. It was definitely denied back then but it is true that the west gave their secret technology away which would seem counter productive.
My first thought was: "These TWO guys? In ONE room?"
Happy that they have to organise these meeting. They are reasonable Americans.
Unlike Democrat politicians, Ben and Bill are adults and act like it.
Remember when Ben met up with Ana Kasparian? Priceless
I love these civil discussions. Both sides can learn from this but I can understand being tired of the same old b.s. It takes someone special to remain civil. Much respect to both of y'all.
What they said, however, is total BS. Russians love Putin. Germans, and French have both voted for Pro-Russian parties proving that they are beginning to realize Russia is not the enemy, and China and Russia are friends now, more than ever.
Pretty everything they said has already been proven wrong. They were BS'ing, but in a civilized manner. Still, utter nonsense.
BRAVO to both Shapiro & Mahr.
It’s refreshing to see 2 people with opposing political views sit down and exchange thoughts without all the “theater” that usually accompanies this type of exchange.
My faith in human-kind has slightly been restored. 🤘🤘
The entire interview was so worth it just to hear Bill Maher say, "Communism was so evil."
What he said about NATO was 100 percent correct and Ben dodged debating it
@@Itsamansworld1 can we borrow your alternate reality time machine so we can test that theory?
Shapiro didn't debate it because you're talking about historical events and there is no point in debating it. You can't know what would have happened. So what is a childish tactic at best.
Grow up.
@@Itsamansworld1 nope try again commie
"A person's only worth is their ability to pick rice." Pol Pot. The ultimate in equality, which is why Bill hates it. He's very smart. In pure communism you are human - nothing more nothing less. Perfect and pure equality. For those who behave it could be good. For those who want to fly their own flag-not so much.
I agree. Now someone needs to tell the Democrats.
THIS is the kind of discussion we DESPERATELY need in our country NOW!!! These two are PHENOMENAL!!!
Yes. However, it is two respectable, intelligent people. There are very few of those left.
I heard nothing constructive about how to end the war and save a few remaining lives so in that regard it was a waste of time.
@@justhikeit If you recall the beginning of the video, Ben started out by saying, basically, that all western attempts at ''ending'' or ''preventing'' such wars from taking place were rendered moot by a myriad complex factors. I think that actually having the gall to own up to this fact and publicly acknowledge it, is, in and of itself, at least worth its weight in gold.
God, I hate it so much when you americans are acting smart about Europe and our relationships. I'm from Slovenia, the first country that broke from Yugoslavia. We had a short war to get independent, it would last 6 days, after we surrounded and disarmed all JNA in our country, Serbs were ready to let us go out of YU, but then USA called Beograd and demanded to get us in check, so Beograd sent another wave of tanks and armored vehicles, so it took another 5 days to deal with that and after that USA realized it's hopeless and admitted us as first independent country. Still, you did try to backstab us and were willingly ready to risk more death because our independence wasn't going along your strategic interests around the world. Well, after this can of worms was opened, wars broke out all over YU, but rest assured, every ex nation of YU hates you for what you did to Serbs with those 78-79 days of bombings. Kosovo is part of Serbia and it always was, Tito made a mistake settling albanians there in hope albania becomes seventh state of YU, so Serbs became minority, then tried to use that chance and get independent. Same crap happened in Macedonia, but Macedons managed to extinguish rebellion there. Anyway, by taking Kosovo from Serbia, you basically made it acceptable for every region around the world, to go independent if they want to and you gave majority russian speaking regions in Ukraine, that were basically given to Ukraine during USSR by Georgian and Ukrainian USSR leaders, that had millions of russian citizens there, right to go independent. So now you got 2 breakaway regions in Ukraine, with majority Russian population trying to break away, after trying to have their russian identity canceled, language canceled and which were shelled for 8 years by Ukraine. Minsk agreement, that was guaranteed by France and Germany, that's supposed to solve this, was broken, France and germany didn't do absolutely nothing to make sure Ukraine sticks to it. At the same time you got nato pushing after fall of berlin wall toward east, usa lying to russians that rocket shields that were getting placed along the new nato border, are against iran, nato trying to literally surround russia by trying to get Ukraine, Georgia and Mongolia or Kazahstan in nato (which basically means nato tries to surround freaking biggest country in the world). Country that has a disputed territory can't get in nato, so russia hit georgia and got a part of it's territory to be disputed (S. Osetia), now it did the same with Ukraine. Russia actually asked if it can become part of EU and part of NATO, it was refused to be part of EU, because it's supposedly doesn't fit geographically in it and regarding nato, it was also refused, because one of russian conditions was to have equal status to usa and not be a vassal state to usa like european countries. Also, nato branded russia as the biggest threat to the alliance, so now you've got nato trying to surround Russia, building rocket shields, building us military financed biolabs that are collecting specifically russian dna in Ukraine, building up quick response forces and branding russia at the same time as the biggest threat to alliance and at the same time politicians in washington for everything going wrong in usa accusing russia, so naturally russians started looking at nato as legitimate threat to their safety. They were pointing out for years that Ukraine joining nato isn't acceptable to them, because it's a threat to their national security and balance of mutual destruction would be broken, all the responses from western politicians they were getting is that they'll do what they want and to mind their own bussiness. Hypersonic missile needs 5 minutes from Ukraine to Moscow, tanks would need few hours to moscow if nato decided to launch suprise attack, their military would literally need to be on high alert 24/7/365 on a few thousand kilometer long border. Last time they had to defend that border was against germans and they had millions of troops assigned there. It's just not a situation you want to be in. If nato got in Ukraine, USA would basically have knife on their throat and Russia would be at mercy of USA forever and it would be just a question when USA would slit their throat. They know that if they lose Ukraine they're long term doomed as a country and a nation. So now they're doing 3 things. They got breakaway regions under control, Ukraine can't get in nato, the regions they hold from Ukraine also provide 75% of gdp of Ukraine and without them Ukraine is now bankrupt and as Zelensky said, they need 5 billion dollars a month to even run the country. So Russia is in no hurry, because they protected their own citizens in those regions, they're killing and demilitarizing ukrainian army on the border of those regions and nato at the same time, they're wrecking Europe and partially USA in economy by keeping this war going and at the same time Europe and USA will have to give zelensky those 5 billion a month. They will probably never go for the rest Ukraine at all, because they're already doing enough damage with what they have and they can keep this going for years or for as long as it takes; until Ukraine agrees to neutrality and demilitarization and to stay out of nato, or until Europe forces Ukraine to do it, or until nato starts an open war with them. And in that case and if they start losing Ukraine or nato even manages to push into Russia, nuclear weapons will be used. They know they're done as a nation if Ukraine falls to nato, they decided they'll resolve this while their demographics can still handle it and while they might have some advantage over USA in missile systems and ICBM's. Russian people also know that, that's why 85% of them support this. But no one should really have any illusion that they'll somehow lose the war and bend the knee. In slavic culture, it's better to die with some dignity then go on your knees and there is nothing worse then getting on the knees in front of USA. So the more you people try to push them to get on the knees, the closer you are to turning into radioactive wasteland too. But they're not crazy and try to avoid it, what you people perceive as their threats when they talk about usage of nuclear weapons, isn't a threat, from their perspective they're talking to idiots and they're trying to explain, like you would explain to a child, what consequences of his actions would be. Marking Putin as he wants to be some savior is also kind of silly, this is not about him or his personal goals, he's not Biden, the guy literally spent last 20 years working day and night trying to improve lives of russians. He did decide to do it now, because he holds enough power in russia to actually be abel to launch those nuclear strikes and he isn't sure that after he is gone, due to corruption, if whoever comes after him will sell himself out like Gorbachov (which didn't get state funeral) or if he'll accept some american bribery. He's got country under control, so he wants to do it now.
Thank you Ben and Bill for a phenomenal show of civil debate. This debate was absolutely refreshing and intelligent. Needed and necessary and our country and in our politics today.
Except Ben said Finland was a NATO member - it's NOT
THANK GOD FINALLY. A respectful debate on current politics between 2 famous figures from the left and right? Please let’s keep doing this and we might actually have a democracy.
Edit: We might actually have a constitutional republic*
Edit 2: for the nerds.
While often categorized as a democracy, the United States is more accurately defined as a constitutional federal republic. What does this mean? “Constitutional” refers to the fact that government in the United States is based on a Constitution which is the supreme law of the United States.
we don't want a democracy, nor have we ever been one. Mob rule is bad. We are a republic.
Weve never been a democracy.
This isn't a Democracy, it's a Constitutional Republic. True democracy is idealistic and completely unworkable.
Maher is left? Doesn't seem like it.
@@myfriendscallme7866 Its more like the left has shifted more to the left and left Bill behind alone in the center.
It's amazing when two people of intelligence have a discussion, it's exactly that; a discussion. Thank you both!
I have to correct Shapiro at 5:32 - Finland was never a member of NATO - both Finland and Sweden applied for full membership in 2022.
he is lying about everything he says in this interview.
Enlighten us @@foresthunter1894
I noticed that too. I wonder if you meant to say Estonia since it Accurate and fulfills the illustration of the point - that our country bordering Russia has been a member of NATO for many years
Finland and Sweden have been defacto NATO members for a while. Sweden sells lots of canons and artilary shells. Alfred Nobel made money from Bofors gun-factory, NOT dynamite. Finland and Sweden collaborated with Germans in WWII, so now they are scared of Russia. But they are NOT pro-American. They love to USE America as a market, and for their own protection.
I always love hearing them talk to each other. It’s one of the best examples of people with different perspectives having a very functional, fruitful conversation and exchange of ideas. They argue points but they also just accept each other’s perspectives and opinions as well. Please continue doing stuff with Bill in the future 🥰
First? This is hilarious 🤣🤣🤣🤣 the fact that these two are talking in this format is just weird world 2022
Okay
So I'm not tripping?
ua-cam.com/video/LJnJqWIjI60/v-deo.html white house Just Responded..Breaking news 😱
ua-cam.com/video/LJnJqWIjI60/v-deo.html white house Just Responded..Breaking news 😱9
@@kevintewey1157 well I mean I'm not going to comment on your personal situation, however sure this is not part of that trip that you probably are on? 🤣😂
Civil discourse. It’s a good thing
I love this discussion- it’s calm and rational. Something we are sorely lacking in the media and politics today.
This brings me back to a Reagan and O'Neil debate
Americans should stay in their own country
What Bill said about communism changing the psyche of a people is very true. I was born in communist Cuba and my parents came to the US when I was only 6yrs old. Most of our relatives that stayed behind have a very different mentally than my family. And the Cubans that migrate to US now are not the same kind of people that migrated early on.
It's good for you to share that with people.
How
How specifically are they different?
@@kennystreamsthings Thinking as a collective vs like an individual. Any kind of individual success, freedom, personal responsibilty or ownership being punished under communism.
its crazy how u can manipulate the mind of millions.
What a calming discussion that was and that’s how it should be.
I think we can all agree we need more of this and less craziness on both sides.
This is great. I know Bill studied history, so its great to hear his views in detail in a longer format. And Ben of course is a smart guy. Makes for a good convo. Great to see this interview 👍
Putin DID look at joining NATO. He decided against, we didn't stop him. And Ukraine had no plans to join NATO - part of their agreement with Russia was not join, and in return give up their nuclear weapons. What they DID want to join was the EU - not a military alliance.
Bill has a valid question, and I would wager the answer was "keep a boogie man so the weapons industry has a reason to keep pumping out weapons and technology to sell" .
"Finland has been bordering Russia since 1949 as a member of NATO" uhh Finland isn't, nor has it ever been, a part of NATO.
Have a feeling they will be after all is said and done.
I was looking for this comment 😬
Finland and Sweden get the same protection for free. No way would NATO stay silent.
Norway and Denmark were founding members tho.
This was a beautiful pairing! I like seeing discussions like this. No need to be insulting or threatening. No need to disrespect the other person. It was wonderful to watch all round
Impressed with the two arguing civilly. Was glad to see Maher come out against communism and agreed with a lot what he.said. We pushed Russia into the villain role.
Any mainstream liberal such as himself would do the same. You've spent too much time watching right-wing propaganda which paints everyone to the left of Trump with a broad brush....
@@aliAli-ty4rf I have been through the public school system, the news networks are 95 percent left wing and I don’t watch network news of any sort but I am brainwashed? You should look in the mirror. You aren’t the one who is a victim of propaganda and brainwashed? What is your news source?
Right wing and left wing are arbitrary and undefined terms. My beliefs are based on principal. I have to live with and compromise on candidates because none of them are perfect. Trump is far better than the woke mob and sleepy Joe. I can admit fault and defects with him. I am not under any illusions and can admit those faults. He isn’t a god figure. I don’t quote him. I don’t idolize him..
Because I, not you, can see nuance and the fact that Trump, though he has zero filter on his mouth and is a ruthless business man who uses the law and his billions to his advantage, did a shit ton more to help the country than the geriatric puppet who currently holds office.
Yes. However, it is two respectable, intelligent people. There are very few of those left.
2019 Democrats: “Trump is try’n to start WW3”
2022 Democrats: “We need to start WW3”
……..good grief beam me up Scotty I’ve had enough of this hypocrisy!😖
Remember them worrying about president Trump using nuclear weapons? Another projection that hasn't happened yet but it wouldn't surprise me a bit.
@DEEPTIPS Nope, haven't seen it cause everyone already knows what it is. At least it keeps ya busy. Have at it.
How can we caged them? This will stop the flow of hypocrisy. Let’s go, Brandon.
@Simple Caps what base did Iran bomb? I’ve zoned out of politics. I print newspapers and even tho we’re a small town paper I can’t be this involved in politics everyday 😂
To bad they killed scotty along with everyone else in star trek picard season 1.
Bill is drastically underestimating Putin…
You are drastically overestimating the plan for NATO to invade Russia and Conquer it you don't know anything about this because you listening to two neoliberals one right neoliberal and one not-so-right neoliberal
ua-cam.com/video/LJnJqWIjI60/v-deo.html white house Just Responded..Breaking news 😱
Oua-cam.com/video/LJnJqWIjI60/v-deo.html white house Just Responded..Breaking news 😱
and you're drastically underestimating Ben's controlled-opposition nature.
Probably so. Watch out for the spammers
Kiev is an Ancestral home of Russia???? What the fuck are u talking about? It’s an ancestral home of UKRAINE 🇺🇦 read the history!!!!
I don't know what happened to Bill Mahr, but he's making more sense by the day. GREAT conversation. We need much more of this!
Just cuz u agree w him, doesn't mean he's making more sense. Everyone thinks their way is the making sense way!
@@whitesandandreef4919 But you can disagree with someone while still thinking that they're making sense, I mean if you're an honest person (By the way, this isn't me saying anything about Bill Maher, just generalizing).
@@Juide80 but ofcourse
Same observation here
Bill has been pretty much the same for years. It's the discourse around him that has completely warped. Including your view of what "makes sense"
A proper conversational debate. Should be used as a template for discussion in all schools today. Mutual respect for each other’s views.
No, it’s not the respecting of the others view but the respect of the person.
Yes. However, it is two respectable, intelligent people. There are very few of those left.
@@wesleyhobbs2332 unfortunately mate, I think you’re right on that.
Maher is getting older and he sees his team has gone coo coo for coco puffs and he is scrambling to find some semblance of sanity. Finally! Sensible conversation among two people that don’t have to agree on everything… loved it.
At the same time, he knows the the totality of the opposing side is even more koo koo--and that's why he caucuses with the Dems(metaphorically.)
05:32 Ben is wrong - Finland was never a member of NATO, though there's some talk about joining now in fear of Russian invasion.
Finland like Sweden were never NATO on paper, but always involved.
Finland, Sweden and Denmark
Finland, which shares a 1,340km (830-mile) border with Russia and, like Sweden, is a Nato partner after abandoning its position of strict neutrality at the end of the cold war, is expected to outline its decision regarding the alliance before midsummer
Thank you for catching that.... Mistake(?) On Ben's part. I had to replay it a few times to be sure I hadn't misheard him.
It kinda defeats the argument he was making there too, so not a trivial mistake.
Bill and Ben, I applaud you for a good honest intellectual conversation, and not be a jab fest.
This makes sense and we need more of this. Thank you.
That's actually how two typical Americans who have opposing views actually talk to each other. The Political divide in America is highly exaggerated by the Political establishment and the media.
Most Americans are either moderates or libertarians. Only about 30% are actually liberals or conservatives. America is too big of nation to only have 2 ways of thinking.
@UAE Emirates
I'm sure he misspoke. You've obviously never done any public speaking or spoke on camera in a conversation with someone. You only have so long to get a point across and you're trying to get as much information into a sentence as possible. It's far easier to debate someone in written words when there's generally no time limit.
I actually watched an old interview with President Kennedy where he kept referring to South Vietnam as South Korea and kept referring to Cambodia as Burma and he's considered one of the most intelligent Presidents in US history.
@UAE Emirates
But would you be so quick to point that out if he shared your Political logic?
That's the problem I see with our whole Political thinking in America it's all a brain dead wasteland of hypocrisy and it's spun to fit our world view. If it doesn't match up to our preconceived notions, we disregard it as propaganda or irrelevant. I like being challenged to think outside my comfort zone.
I just enjoyed seeing people of 2 opposing ideologies have a polite discussion on this topic. The media wants people like me to hate liberals and for them to hate people like me and I think that's plain ignorant. I don't agree with Bill Marher on most of what he talks about but I respect the fact he tries to base his opinions on logic and his understanding of things and not talking points from the DNC or Woke Cancel Culture crowd like most liberal commentators do.
@@shanejones7906 boom. Perfectly explained sir 🙏
Bill and Ben, the Flower Pot Men? (British kids' show back in the day)
Shapiro is wrong about Finland being a member of NATO. It's concerning that he can insist it so strongly with a back story of when they joined and everything, yet be flat out wrong about it.
I've seen Ben Shapiro and Steven Crowder both say that Finalnd is a member of NATO confidently... It's concerning when you see them so wrong because it really makes you question what else they get wrong.
I have a lot of respect for Ben, but he does get A LOT wrong specifically on this issue. Domestically i think he is generally on the money - but geopolitics? Nup.
Shapiro speaks fast, thus gets some things wrong. It was a cringe worthy moment. Finland is part of the EU, which does have defensive policies similar to NATO's, albeit not identical. Trouble is, Fimland has not been invaded by Russia after WW2 not because of the EU, but because of a treaty USSR had with Finland and Shapiro completely missed that. Not to mention no one seems to talk about the strategic reasons Putin had to invade Ukraine, which have nothing to do with the Kievan Rus. Namely that Ukraine is a stopper for the Northern European Plain that funnels towards Russia, thus making control of it paramount from a Russian perspective (Maher may have been on to something there, albeit naively, obliquely and possibly unintentionally as well). The second reason for Russia to invade Ukraine, from a Russian perspective, is the fact Ukraine has the 2nd largest deposits of natural gas in Europe, right behind Russia. They are not exploited atm, but should they be - sonething Ukraine was trying to do and being blocked as much as possible by the Russians, Russia would lose both billions as well as influence over the EU, with Germany being head of that list. Those natural gas deposits are in territorial waters belonging to Ukraine, in the Black Sea. Crimea controls half of it, the southern coast controls a lot and Snakes' Island covers much as well - it's why the Russian Navy occupied an otherwise forgotten and empty speck of dirt in the Black Sea. To note how the Russian military is staying close to those areas, along Southern Ukraine, from Transnistria all the way to Donbas.
Anyway, both Shapiro and Maher missed points and made mistakes, from Finland being in NATO to ignoring much about the weight of the EU in Europe of all places.
The point of their segment was to suggest dark times ahead and the need for unity in facing them, in a rather clumsy, yet touching and cute manner.
Everyone thinks they're an expert on European politics now, that's my issue with all this.
And there's also another reason why Russia is not invading Finland for decades as well, and it has nothing to do with NATO.
You are hawkish Ben…
I totally disagree with you on these interventionist (globalist) view
Maher is wrong. We are fighting Communism/Socialism HERE in the USA just as we watch this video. Get real.
Yeah I rather fight the socialist here in our country we have too many older people who have seen communism they want to use the younger people that give what they want and those younger people think they can do better just because they didn't see communism. Not knowing that the young people are going to be used as cannon fodder and executed because they're not needed and also they know too much.
He did mention young people buying into it, though, he's not ignorant of the fact that there's still a fight to be had.
He is talking about Russia not national US politics. When the USSR fell so did communism in Russia.
Communism/Socialism works fantastic if they can free themselves from the plunder and oppression from the imperial "democratic" countries. See ---> China. They now make your USA look like a third world country and now have even more freedom than USA. But you're probably too brainwashed by your media/ government. ALL your "democratic" countries only succeed because they plundered from their colonized countries. And now that your USA is running out of countries to plunder, we can see it's self destructing. Experts predict USA will become a third world country in 30 years. Karma is a f**king bi*ch, ain't it?!!!
@@bighands69 Bill was definitely referring to US culture and communism when he referenced Millennials.
Seeing these two talk like civilized adults gives me hope in humanity.
I’m a total conservative but I always loved Bill. He speaks his mind but is also self aware and sees value in hearing everyone’s opinions right or left.
The fact u sound intelligent tells me, u r conservative, but def not a republican
Then you shouldn't be watching Shapiro the Jewish Neo-Liberal
@@hdfreepicss3xy617 huh??
@@whitesandandreef4919 no clue either lmao
5:33 Here Shapiro errs. Finland is not yet a member of Nato, but has applied for membership in wake of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
Maher is correct in this respect; the way we dealt with Russia post 1991 is the proximate cause of this whole mess. NATO is certainly part of that.
We have no idea how NATO and the west dealt with Russia after the USSR fell … maybe overtures were made maybe not. Ben nails it, Russia and its leaders possibly had no interest in western democracy. Hence, the Russian people allow a Putin to gain and remain in powers. Assuming certain beliefs about what the west may or may not have done at to reaching out to Russia is irresponsible.
How so?
@@arcguardian In 1990 HWBush and secretary of state James Kaker promissed Gorbachov that they would not expand NATO influence "one inch eastward" from Germany. There have been 5 Nato expansions eastward (almost 14 countries) since and some of them share borders with Russia.
The missile issue in Ukraine borders is also not a good look to NATO.
I think it's dangerous to ignore 30 years of NATO expansion and just assume Putin woke up two weeks ago wanting to make Russia great again.
But that's just me reading into history..
Putin said the work to drive democracy forward in russia was one of his goals in 2005, when he also said that the fall of the USSR was the " biggest geopolitical disaster of our times". Well, he certainly didn't invoke democracy, and now he has invaded a country that he wants to bring back into russias fold. Its pretty clear that he is ideologically driven.
@@marcofurtado5459 well ever since yeltsins shelling of the parliment building - ending all hopes of russian democracy (which it did) , probably convinced Nato to not trust what they had first seen after the fall of the ussr.
On the other hand Nato has tried to get closer to russia many times despite this and forming council like deals with russia but they have all been rejected.
I'm so happy to see you two continue to have dialogue on tough issues. So much of what we hear is the big media's interpretation (vaccine mandates, critical race theory, cancel culture, etc.) versus intelligent and thought provoking dialogue you guys continue display (while staying respectful). Love it!
🇺🇸Lets Go Brandon🇬🇧
ua-cam.com/video/LJnJqWIjI60/v-deo.html white house Just Responded..Breaking news 😱9
FJB 🙌
Bill missed totally, that Russians don't want amerikan Rokets on their Border. There's no difference to US interests. Amercans don't want Russian Rokets on their Border to Mexico for example. Or is it like if the US does it then its ok?
We need more conversations like this to actually progress as a society.
amen!
If we could get people from deferent backgrounds that have deferent political views to sit down and just talked it out America would definitely be in a lot better shape. AMEN
@@mitchgray5610 i would agree. but leave out those good for nothing feminazis. AMEN
Gotta stop attacking each other
@@azuresage1067
Only one side is attacking.
Col. Allen West was attacked by a mob yelling black lives matter to a black man. They then went after the women who invited him to speak.
This happens to all conservatives on college campuses.
Three left leaning news personalities were at an event at the university of Chicago. There wasn't a conservative mob shutting down the conversation. Students with a different opinion waited in line to be part of the debate. Of course Stelter and Apple refused to answer questions from conservatives.
If someone wore a Bernie shirt to a Trump rally they would be welcomed in. Try that with a Trump hat at a Bernie event.
It's wonderful to see two people having a discussion even disagreeing at times yet having a reasonable basis for the disagreement. Each of which seeing the others point of view agreeing to disagree and moving forward with the conversation. Absolutely fantastic
Summed that up very well !
Shapiro although well spoken, is not an expert on everything. Finland is not a member of NATO. They are now considering it but not a member yet.
Bill is one of the few people who really makes sense. Ben is clueless when saying finland is a nato member, they are not!
Plus avoided answering Bill about nato's reason to exist ..I 'm huge fan of Ben but He really went around the bush on this one and did not answered.
It's called being "exposed "
Check your facts. Finland is one of NATO's most active partners and has been a valued contributor to NATO-led operations and missions in the Balkans, Afghanistan and Iraq.
Finland is one of six countries (known as 'Enhanced Opportunity Partners'1 under the Partnership Interoperability Initiative) that make particularly significant contributions to NATO operations and other Alliance objectives. As such, the country has enhanced opportunities for dialogue and cooperation with the Allies.
@@leocalderon8604 wrong....they absolutely are not members of nato...after russia's invasion both nordic countrys Sweden and Finland consider joining'.....
по видео я понял, что русские плохие, что мол Запад сам хотел видеть Россию в НАТО, а Россия злая, потому что не хочет видеть американские базы в своей стране и каждый день говорить: Да богославит бог Америку! И им посрать что при Горбачеве и при Путине Россия спрашивала у США насчет присоединения в НАТО. На что нас нахуй послали, попутно присоединяя в НАТО все пост-советские страны кроме России. Такая странная политика не должна ли была насторожить Россию? Которая стремиться иметь полный суверенитет от США и не быть под их влиянием, а просто стать партнером. Эти люди так разглагольствуют будто их страна является королем мира и всегда им будет, а остальные - подданные.
correction: Finland is not a member of NATO.
There has been growing support in Finland for joining NATO after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Was thinking the same thing.
What’s that other country who also may be joining?
@@kennyadedayo8550 Sweden has also seen increasing support however not as much as Finland
@@maxfacsurg
Got it. Thanks
ben meant to say norway which joined in 1949
Finland isn't in NATO, it stayed neutral and prospered.
Exactly. And we should stay that way
I think you should look at their agreement with NATO.
Just wished I could live in a neutral country instead of the US colony Germany.
Never thought that our politicians could stick that deep in the a** of the US. But they occupy it ... The US could or probably didn't want to denazify Germany.
And it's surrounded by NATO members. Of course it's safe.
Bill Mahr is quite right in his analysis, Good job Bill.
You mean right wing.
@@1pt21jigawatt I don't know what would be considered right wing here. Ben's opinion seems to match the neocon perspective.
I am neighbor with Russia and Ukraine and I did studied in school a lot about their common history but do not interfere into their fight.
Nowadays even if some are thousands of miles away and did not studied not even 1 hour of both States history they can interfere.
I totally agree with Bill Maher when he said they should have made Russia part of NATO
Absolutely, there was a historical moment to change the course of world history, to end the evil arms race. I mean Turkey is a part of NATO for gods sake. It's literally insane.
Dear Sir, President Putin suggested Russia should join NATO in 1999 to then President of the United States Bill Clinton. His suggestion was REJECTED. So, what is the purpose of NATO? They don't want to admit Russia, yet they keep surrounding her by installing nuclear missile in neighbouring countries. What is NATO's goal?
Brilliant idea.
@@vesnaz6244, NATO is a military alliance so the goal is always war.
They always need to have an enemy. Russia as an allie would have destroyed the entire narrative and our need for huge military budgets. Imagine how devastating this would be to the industrial military complex.
What a well articulated and thought provoking conversation. I am seeing more and more personalities from both sides of the aisle engage in civil discourse recently and it's a breath of fresh air. The podcast format is such a healthy alternative to a 3 minute """"debate""" on primetime where both speakers try to get their opponent in a "Gotcha!" moment for sound bites to be played for weeks after
It is? Really? You could have fooled me. I thought the irony was so thick here you couldn't cut it with a knife. I had to listen to them preach to me how Putin craves Kiev because it's the ancestral source of his nation and Milosevic craved Belgrade for the same reasons.
And yet, considering both of their ethnic backgrounds somehow the exact equivalent situation in the modern state of Israel and Jerusalem is entirely lost on them. DUH!
I hate to say it but Ben is wrong on one thing. Despite what Ben says at 5:32, Finland has NEVER been a member of NATO...ever.
Aren't they trying to enter ?
This is supposed to be informed debate between knowledgeable commentators. The lack of knowledge of basic facts is shocking.
@@Norvik_-ug3ge shut up
@@Norvik_-ug3ge Yes, that’s insane how they are debating over something they clearly have no knowledge of. I do understand it’s a hot topic, but check your facts
Wait - gasp - are you saying - Ben made a MISTAKE ?!?
Good Heaven's - is that even - dare I say it - ALLOWED ?!? 😱🙄🥱
Американцы, которые лезут в политику других стран по всему миру и ведут себя как экономический диктатор, которые уничтожили миллионы в своих интересах - называют Россию плохой. Это просто абсурд.
I'm actually impressed by the amount of good points both men are making here. Ben is right that the West in their hubris thought that they could beat Russia by charming them, and that sometimes we need to get rough.
Bill is correct that we cannot continue to be the world's police and that NATO definitely has some responsibility in alienating Russia.
Why can’t we?
Neither jew mentioned the actual reason putin invaded. He needs ethnic Russians and eastern orthodox believers or else Russia will be a Muslim majority
“Get rough with them”? How? Wave our finger over the nuclear launch button? I mean, just look at Russia’s take on the US sending arms to Ukraine and it being an act of war by the US. You seem to not understand that a US/Russian conflict has the likelihood of mutually assured destruction. If you’re going to advocate for the US to get right with Russia, you should make sure you have all your affairs in order.
@@thomasb4467 yeah I noticed Bill didn't make a point on that, he just said Russia isn't the USSR. Maybe he should tell that to Putin.
@@Teodede It's not just destruction of US and Russia. That conflict will most likely cause nuclear winter and changes to world we currently cannot even dream about. With death toll over 98 percent of population, even extinction isn't ruled out.
this is the first Ben Shapiro that makes no sense and shows that Ben knows nothing about what is occurring or why it occurred. He's literally ignorant to the actual realities.
huge respect for how these two respectfully discuss topics even when they have very different opinions.
Lol more US flag waving propaganda
Two smart Humans with different points of view having a civilized discussion. America and the world needs more of this. Bravo
'America and the world'. No, just Americans. The rest of the world is doing fine. Don't lump us in with you lot.
Indeed. The rest of the world wishes they were Americans.
But hey, these two would trample any nay-sayers here in the comments all day long.
Nice that these two from very different sides of the political aisle can sit down and have a civil conversation while disagreeing.
Interesting to hear both perspectives. We need more conversations like this.
I think people have become starved from the lack of logical conversations that anything we can find anymore becomes gold.
i don't see people from two different sides here. Ben is clearly taking leftists position on Russia/Ukrane crisis.
I just see 2 jews repeating globalist talking points....
@@nly4607
Tell that to Bill when he and his family are out celebrating on Thursday (St. Patrick's Day)! ☘️😁
@@mousetreehouse6833 are you trying to argue bill isnt Jewish because he is an atheist? The man fits more Jewish stereotypes than woody allen!
I would definitely watch a weekly show with these two gentlemen discussing current events. This was refreshing.
100%! I was thinking the exact same!!!
Lol the irony of two pro-Israel Jews talking about how it’s unreasonable to want to wage war on a peoples who are occupying a vague notion of your ancient homeland is pretty funny to me.
5:33 "Finland has been bordering Russia since 1949 as a member of NATO".
That statement is 100% false.
Finland is not and has never been a member of NATO. Finland has since the end of the second world war kept a policy of armed neutrality.
Finland has a been member of the EU since 1995 mainly for economic reasons.
What, Ben Shapiro gave false information? I'm shocked /s
100%? Finland does border Russia….maybe 50% wrong 🙃
by context he meant to say norway which does have border that touches russias.
@@michaeldeandrade3736 Good catch ;)
@@KennethBoneth When Ben mention the Baltic Countries: Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania and after that Finland they all share a common past as a part of the Russian Empire that Putin seems hellbent to re-establish. Neither Norway nor Sweden have ever been under control of Russia, in fact Russia has its origins in Swedish Vikings settling in first Novgorod and later Kiev. So the most sensible thing if Putin insist on rolling back through history would be to #MakeRussiaSwedishAgain ;)
I think this was my favorite part of the whole conversation. Both had different perspectives to understand the dilemma we face as a whole, not just our country but other countries too. Still think Bill was right in this scenario, we should have had a better approach to how we treated the Russians after the fall of the Soviet Union, instead we kept giving them the cold shoulder yet have the audacity to question why Putin disregard the West's opinions. We put more effort to have a relationship with China who has taken for granted the alliance the West has to then throw it back in our faces, a country that is after materialist goods than a cohesive world. And it's not the US's job to act like the world police, we needed let other countries get the chance to defend themselves and not rely on us to solve every problem, it just creates more problems in the long run.
This approach was a disaster here in the US though, removing Federal troops from the South after the Civil War. This led to rapid growth of the KKK, Jim Crow, lynching and an actual coup of state govt. in NC in 1898. We JUST passed an anti-lynching law in 2022--with 3 Dems, err, I mean Republicans voting against. We were kinder to the insurrectionists rather than the innocent slaves, who were just trying to reunite their families and be regular citizens. One of our original sins has been difficult to eradicate, and whitewashing hasn't helped matters
It's a bit sad how little real information and knowledge guys with that much authority in public opinion have.
Bill talks about Kosovo in 1989 and says it wasn't part of Serbia but Kosovo was de facto and de jure part of Serbia until 2008 when they declared unrecognized independence.
Shapiro talks how Finland would be part of Russia if it wasn't in NATO while Finland still isn't part of NATO in fact they are all over the news because they want to join but Turkey is blocking them.
Then they talk about Stalin with total disregard of different propaganda pictures both nations have of him. In Russia generations and generations of people were born and raised on stories and history of Stalin the man who won the most important war in history of the entire World, a man who brought victory in great patriotic war, the most horrific war in history of Russia a war in which every Russian family gave it's sacrifice, while in the US generations were raised on hating Stalin a brutal tyrant, a dictator whose evil is matched only by Hitler.
Edit: oh and Russia, with Putin as president, actually tried to get in to EU and NATO.
Yeah it really is
Ben said without NATO Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia would be part of Russia now. I agree.
@@Mdebacle He also said that Finland is a NATO member since 1949.
As for those countries I am not sure, there is a lot of talk about Russian expansion, but they established those 2 Russian majority "republics in Georgia, they didn't take the whole thing, and it's not like they couldn't, I mean president of Georgia ate his tie when they attacked. Ukraine will most likely end up smaller but not annexed.
@@Mdebacle and they were a part of Soviet union. And then became independent. And NATO had no part in this whatsoever.
@@FatBug12 Finland was never part of the USSR. It was invaded by USSR and had to cede territory.
Shapiro is right on point. As a person living in the Baltic States I can assure you that there is this overwhelming feeling that Russian troops sooner than later would've been here if not for NATO. And I've heard the narrative in our media and among the people about a possible Russian invasion here literally since I was a child. That's why the financial and any other support from our countries to Ukraine is so huge- we just know it could've been us.
As for USSR collapse, don't forget that a vast part of Russians saw it as a great tragedy. The totalitarian regime has gone but that mentality is still there. So, yeah, NATO is still very much necessary.
Bill actually makes way more sense than Ben. Actually I feel like Ben is holding a grudge against a lot of people
How does bill make more sense. Different country people do want diff things. We may want fundamental common things. But not everything.
Bill seems to be intentionally failing to get Ben's point on the difference between our post-war attitude with Germany and Japan and or post-cold war attitude with Russia. He seems to be debating that we had to occupy the former, as if been were arguing that we were wrong to do so, but been is simply saying that our attitude with ALL three was to be suspicious of their inclinations and intent on demonstrating that we would suppress any bad actions they might contemplate after (even because of) their defeat. In the former case, we used military occupation. In Russia -- because we had not actually invaded and vanquished them -- we had to limit ourselves to demonstrating the same intent by maintaining NATO as a bulwark against them. Same difference. Bill then goes on to forget his own point when he says that we forced the emperor to declare himself mortal, which was a humiliation to him, not noticing that testing Russia as not one with Europe and the west was just as much a slight to them. Same difference, bill. If you want to argue that being more "friendly" and trusting of Russia would have led to something other than Putin's autocratic belligerence, fine -- I think that's naive -- but you can't use the post-WWII response as your argument without sounding silly.
Gotta love when these two get together. Civil, intelligent debates.
Yup! And let’s go flyers!
Yes. However, it is two respectable, intelligent people. There are very few of those left.
@@wesleyhobbs2332 true
@@TheGracefacekiller for sure!!!! Wish they were doing better😂
I love Bill Maher, simply because he is mature enough and secure in his own thoughts to debate with anyone, not just those who believe the same that he does.
One honest question for you. what's your opinion on Israel? Israel took a land that they believe they have lost thousands of years ago. Now a completely different nation lives there. Do you have the same opinion about Israel too?
Good on Bill and Ben for sitting down and having a conversation. It’s a skill I think many are re-learning as we de-polarize/get our minds around the fact that conversations require listening. Good on them
I like Ben most the times, but really....he has no clue about foreign politics. Bill hit´s it perfectly. The mistakes we did 30 years before are hunting us down now.
Dude Ben is right putin rejected the idea of nato also the Russians are completely different to the Japanese and Germans. Also putin was always going to do something like this
@@Jade-tf5kb NATO Is per Definition a Military Alliance against russia. How can he not reject it?
It is ridicolous to believe russia should accept ukraine being a NATO member. It‘s like saying the USA should accept that canada joining a Military Alliance with China Named AntiUS.