Awesome - I've done 31 track days in my Model S, and the stock Ferodo pads hold up just fine (I did upgrade the brake fluid) even if they don't have as hard an initial bite as the pads on my dedicated track car. Nice that you get a full session without any power limiting - my wife wouldn't let me take her 3 on the track, and it's probably a good thing - she would not be happy if I wore out her brakes :).
Hope you can one day get a Performance Model 3 and show us the differences in the track. If you get to upgrade the wheels and brakes in the Standard one you used in this video let us see how it tracks too, cheers!
Thank you so much for posting the video! Very smooth driving; you made it look slow, which is really nice! I saw water at the apex of turn 3, thus the sudden understeer there. Model 3 is able to carry good speed through turns and has good thrust at the exits. People should keep in mind this is the second slowest Model 3. It's not dual motor, and it's not the performance version. It's intended to compete against BMW 330i, not BMW M3, even though he passes several BMW 3 series, including an M3.
Great vid! Expected it to fall flat after a couple laps, but dang! Proper pads, and fluid, and it looks like the 3 could be a decent hobbyists track day car.
Started watching the video and was thinking that you were not going that fast... then I noticed the speedometer and realized visually it was quite misleading...
I was considering doing this, but I wanted to capture the map location on the video. I have typically used data overlays, but it was nice to have the map of the track in frame of the video.
I'm impressed! Even though we don't know anything about the Caterham, M3 and 911 you are passing, it does look like it would be possible to take it out on a track day and have fun. Maybe even just a brake pad and fluid upgrade would help. Only worry I have is that it might not perform that well in higher temperatures. Thanks for sharing!
Agreed. There is a window of optimism here. Higher ambient temperatures would be really important to test. Given that this was the first session of the day, not ideal track conditions, and first time with this car on the track...yea, this car can do more than what I did with it. I think it could get to ~1:50 lap times when pushed and better set up on the car (better tires, performance pads/rotors, higher temp brake fluid, traction control tweaks, e-brake SW adjustment...). Encouraging at least.
Great! On paper, the M3 is about as fast as a BMW e46 M3. So with the right brake pads, brake fluid, and tires, I think sub 1:50 should be quite doable. Can't wait to get mine and maybe I'll see you out at Laguna Seca!
Keep in mind this is not the performance version of the Model 3. In fact, it's the second slowest. Models should be, in order of increasing speed: Single motor small pack, single motor large pack (this car), dual motor large pack, dual motor performance version. (Not sure if either dual motor will get the small pack; sort of doesn't make much sense.)
It probably would be. And the LR TM3 would be faster in the straights. It would be an interesting matchup. Which car is faster would probably depend on the track.
Peteto Chibs, He had consistent times till his brakes gave out. No thermal throttling. I don not think my BRZ stock could hold out at Laguna balls out for for 20min on pump gas. The brakes would start to fade or the engine would start to cut back power or both. With track pads running e85 I can stay out till the tiers give up. I am thinking with track pads the 3 will hold out on the track for some time.
Formula for racing: High Temp Fluid changed out before each track day., Race compound brake pads, front and back, with new front discs and as much air as you can get flowing over the calipers with ducts and high air flow wheels(lose the aeros); And, the last is most important since you are fighting heat. BTW, those four puck calipers should give you plenty of force...enjoyed watching you run my favorite track.
Which could be in the future a good thing e.g. for the Roadster, as you can adjust better your speed and braking force. and also not having to shift will squeeze a little on the lap times compared to ICE cars. So with continuous battery weight drops (higher energy density) we will soon have only lap records by EVs. If the Model 3 is good on track, the Roadster will be a beast. And it has the carbon ceramic brake discs of the Laferrari (the test driver spoke at the unveil about that, he worked for Ferrari in the past).
That's normal at track days - most run groups have no passing without a point-by, so both cars know when and where the pass is happening, lessening the risk of contact. You're expected to point a car by if they are on your tail - if they go there, they are faster than you over the whole lap even if you can out-drag them down the straights.
Really impressed. The model 3 was keeping up with much faster performance cars, considering this is a base model family sedan. It even overtook a few. I had to chuckle at the brakes failing though. What did Tesla say? You'll never have to change your breakpads again? Well, you might have to do that fairly frequently if you like spirited driving. I was also really happy to see the powertrain and battery didn't overheat even after several laps, unlike the model S which can only do one lap before overheating and limiting power. They have really done a good job with cooling, it seems.
Model S can certainly do more than one lap at full power... > 3rd - about the Tesla on a road race track. I have tracked my car on Road America - a 4.1 mile road track in Elkhart Lake WI. It does indeed go into reduced power mode. But it’s not 45 seconds. It’s more like 7 miles. By the start lap 3, through lap 4, I was in reduced power. In the first 7 miles, it eats most things on the track on the straights. And it eats almost everything on the track in turns. But it does indeed go into reduced power mode. www.quora.com/Is-Teslas-claim-that-Model-S-is-the-quickest-production-car-on-Earth-true
Many production cars, when used for amateur racing, need and get racing brake pads to cope with the higher braking loads. That's at least as common as tire upgrades. It's no surprise that Model 3 is better around a race track in general, due to being lighter, smaller and more efficient than Model S.
Sample size of 1 may be too small to make that judgement, and it was a relatively cold morning. That said, Tesla has very good battery scientists and engineers and they have been making good improvements in battery technology, thermal management, etc. But this one result was definitely positive. Being able to do 9 full laps does seems like battery progress and improvement.
So did it pass sound?? :) . Kudos to you taking the car out - how many times did you have to charge it though? The car doing mid-150s on stock brakes is awesome. I do wonder how the car would hold up in say 80F weather in August though.
I went through 135 miles in 20 minutes in 40°F temps. It would be possible to do two 20 mins. sessions if the long range battery was close to full. I just charged once at the Monterey Tesla store, since I was done for the day after the first session of the day. The nice thing about charging at the Monterey Tesla store was the number of people that just wanted to talk and sit in the Model 3. So, that took longer than I needed to be there for charging...it was just fun to chat with people about the car. I think the car could do 1:50 with better tires, better brakes, and better track conditions. It will be interesting to see how the car behaves at higher ambient temperatures. There would be a few SW tweaks that would also help (ex. adjust traction control, disable emergency braking, disable e-brake when in Park to avoid warping disc brake cooling after session...).
Thanks for responding with the detail. Very cool you did this and better you have some experience on track vs. a newer track driver. Most cars stock aren't ready for the challenges of a 20min sessions. When magazines do their tests it's one hot lap so it's not as abusive. It's neat that the car is able to withstand. I know my car gets maybe 6mpg at laguna. I go through 1.5 tanks at laguna in a good day. sounds like for the Model 3 you would go through 2-3 "tanks" if doing 5 sessions. But cost is lower for you-ish since gas at laguna is unless you fill up during lunch. Kudos to you for doing this.
You have to order the Roadster, the car is so low cost for its performance. And when I see the Model 3 (even not performance version) doing so well on track, it is clear that the Roadster has the potential to set lap records everywhere and blow every other production car away. It has the carbon ceramic brake discs of the Laferrari (the test driver spoke about that at the unveil). Imagine simply with this insane acceleration what you can squeeze out on the straight lines. I hope Tesla will manage to make it relatively light, as weight could be the only flaw. First gen Roadster was approx. 1300 kg, but smaller. 1600 kg would be great, like the Porsche 918.
that's super interesting; with the quiet powertrain the video isn't very dramatic but you're moving at a decent clip. How much of the battery do you consume? And can you last a full track day by charging between sessions?
I'm so jelous. I've been a hobby mechanic since I was 16 and bought my first car with paper route money. I'm 41 now. I would love the opportunity to do this.
Great driving & cool video! Bodes very well for the higher power versions. I hope they put the bigger Model S rear motor in the 3 at some point. Maybe after the all wheel drive version.
Dual motor and performance versions of Model 3 are coming. What's impressive is that this is (his very first track drive of) the second slowest Model 3 and it's already faster than multiple BMW 3 series on the track including a BMW M3.
Yeah, those will be great. As it is, it's very impressive, although the performance figures are exactly the same as a BMW Z4M (from 0-100mph) so it shouldn't really be a massive suprise haha! What I really meant to say was I hope they do a performance version which is JUST rear wheel drive, that would be epic.
Performance versions after the Model S P85 were all dual motor to get better efficiency and more total power to the road largely because the front wheels share in (and contribute to) the longitudinal acceleration. I expect the Performance version of Model 3 to also be dual motor. Pure rear wheel drive may have slightly better feel though, as you note. It's also a slightly different driving dynamic to use the throttle to control the power only at the rear and be able to adjust the car's balance that way. For example, it allows more active control of oversteer and can be used to balance out understeer. But it's a matter of degree since AWD can also do that if there's a rear power bias, as there is in all dual motor Teslas (and probably most other performance oriented AWD cars).
Fun to watch the possibilities. Have you driven a Model S around this track? I'd be curious to know if the 3's maneuverability is a match for the S's acceleration.
No. I have a Tesla Model S P90D with Ludicrous mode, but with the power limiting and the weight of the Model S...not worth it to me to take it on the track. The Model 3 had really good maneuverability around the track. The lowered suspension and 19" wheels helped plant the car in the corners.
Yes, these brakes are obviously designed for regen braking, and not for track use. That is okay. The Model 3 is great with these brakes for daily driving. However, a good set of performance pads/rotors/fluids would be required. This was more of a "Since my GT4 is still in the shop...let's see what happens with the Model 3...". No prep, last minute, didn't think the thing would run past two laps...but it did. Promising. For context, my Porsche GT4 goes through a half a tank (7.5 gallons) in a 20 minute track session. I need to fill up after each session.
Thanks for some realistic ICE context! Eventually tracks will get fast chargers. It will happen organically as EVs proliferate in coming years due to continually falling battery costs and much lower EV operating costs. In addition to already costing much less to operate, EVs will also cost less to buy than fossil cars eventually.
Why were you driving on a track with traction control on ('Slip Start' disables it partially)? Why were you driving with the windows down? When you realized the brakes were metal on metal, why did you continue to drive? Why not drive with standard Regen?
Matt, do you think the dual motor Model 3 will be a better track car, or will it add too much weight up front? Sounds like the current RWD version has an excellent balance and handling dynamic.
Personally, the RWD is playful and fun. You can see on Turn 3 when I hit water across the turn...the car does a good job with a balanced slide or a little oversteer. The Model 3 AWD Performance will be interesting to see how Tesla designs it. I would like to see a Performance RWD option...but this is fun to even consider all of this. Electric track cars are coming...or here today. ;-)
Tesla has gone with dual motors for the performance versions to get more efficient regen from the front wheels and more power to (all) the wheels under acceleration. Since you have a P90D and track your cars, we can assume you know that. :)
Will you be getting the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires from the 20" wheel offering on the Tesla store? Because tire grip is a limiting factor with the all seasons.
Hi Matt, How did the model 3 do in the turns? Any thoughts/info on its performance? obviously a heavy car is not going to turn like a lightweight Porsche but wondering what you thought?
Here is the front left rotor/pad: photos.app.goo.gl/b5RyLeY3EttwOa5P2, and the front right: photos.app.goo.gl/4xVbO3yxqwrJmMHB2 I haven't had a chance to take the wheels off yet. I might do that myself this weekend, get it to Tesla (I haven't reached out to them yet, nor heard from them), or my trusty local racing shop EDGE Motorworks in Mountain View, CA: www.edgemotorworksmv.com/
My next scheduled track days for the year are all at Thunderhill in Willows, CA. There really isn't a good charging solution for the Thunderhill track (Corning, CA is too far away to make it work). Laguna Seca is ideal right now, since there are three Tesla Superchargers 'close' (
I wonder if the Model 3 with the smaller battery will do even better. I realize it has less acceleration, but the lighter weight might make up for it in the corners and braking.
My Ariel Atom 2 time was ~1:50: ua-cam.com/video/qXZVi1oAcEQ/v-deo.html, my current Porsche GT4 time is 1:41.9: ua-cam.com/video/Zsh3d0fNq7U/v-deo.html
Tesla has to have Ceramic rotors as an option on P 3 D to make guys like you happy,brakes will never fail or overheat,big bucks though, sure some will bite
That would be fun to find out! Tesla's press kit claims lower performance specs on the 220 mile version...but your point is well taken: www.tesla.com/presskit#model3
There are videos of guys driving Tesla's (Model S and Model X) on german autobahns at night (low traffic, low temperature, rare braking, 100-120mph) and those things just start overheating after 20+ minutes and go into 50% power "limp" mode. On the other hand, I wonder what would happen if someone decided to drive this Tesla on a trip in the middle of the summer (like a lot of europeans do) with road temps above 90°F, while also traveling over those long busy curvy hill roads with an elevation change of 3000+ft. I'd dare any Tesla owner to try and disable regen braking over a 200-300 mile trip, with 50 mile long combination of 3000ft descends/climbs. Hell I'd even give you a headstart, slap on ANY brakes you want on those wheels :D
The quiet nature of EV poses some potential, if tracks were limited to EV's only then it would be plausible to have them within urban area's that could be a really great thing once self driving becomes common and more people need some real fun in their cars. Heck the way the US is slapping laws to limit its citizens freedom tracks might become the only place you are aloud to actually "drive" your car.
Ha ha yes for those like retro I actually put together a sample sound for Tesla tried to tweet it to them .. but it was inspired by Jeremy Clarkson .. so its a two part sound, the first part is played inside the car, the second is played outside the car .. IMO this would get Clarkson the total effect he so loves .. soundcloud.com/ross-linder-939326061/clarkston_tesla-mp3-1
90% of the fun is race-craft experiences and tracks that require constant line changes to attack and defend then going for the perfect lap when you get clean air. My best experiences are In karts where you never even care about engine noise and many have no gears. Just raw speed exhilaration and racing. I guess if you don't want to race or care about smoothness and lap times, then blasting around in a car with no mufflers could be fun.
Question for Matt Crowley -- based on how the Model 3 feels to drive regularly when regen is set to "Standard", do you think setting the Regen to "Standard" for the track would have helped preserved your brake pads significantly?
Deviant Technologist, not a significant amount. When tracking a car, the threshold braking is where most of the energy and heat go to quickly slow the car for turn in to the apex. Braking late and braking hard helps with lower lap times, but does cause more thermal load on the brakes. It will be interesting to see how regen and thermal power management evolves over time with more interest in performance EVs.
Really funny that Tesla Model 3 overtaking the Porsche at min. 7:03 and weird to have no engine noise. With electric race cars you hear some whining, here the car is so quite.
It's very common to upgrade at least the brake pads on production cars to racing pads, when going racing. This was on stock brake pads. For street driving, regenerative braking does most of the braking on any Hybrid or EV, and the friction brakes get literally almost no use. Going full power on a race track is different and stresses all the systems on a car, but especially the brakes and pads.
I did the ReFuel event at Laguna Seca in 2015, with my 2015 Tesla Model S-70D. I got 3rd in the Production GT class at the event, turning somewhere in the 1:50s. But, the Model S overhead and slows down, which seems like what is happening here (you started at 1:57, and then were consistently over 2 minutes.
ReFuel 2015 - Laguna Seca Raceway, Monterey, California USA PRODUCTION GT CLASS PLACE DRIVER VEHICLE LAP TIME 1 Joe Nuxoll Tesla Roadster S 01:49.322 2 Vlad Tovbin Tesla Model S 01:54.947 3 Tony Williams Tesla Model S 01:57.068 4 Jack Brown Tesla Model S 01:57.278 5 Brian Manthos Tesla Model S 01:57.736 6 Tom Ikelman Tesla Roadster S 02:03.386 7 Pascal Vienne Tesla Model S 02:03.598 8 Anton Notkin Tesla Model S 02:05.983 9 Megan Gardner Tesla Roadster S 02:18.789 10 Carl Meyer Tesla Model S 02:21.546
Nice! Factory rubber? Hopefully there are competition pads that fit. That and a little Willwood brake juice and you'll be quick indeed, or at least not in the wall.
Not factory rubber. 19" TSportline cast wheels w/ Pirelli PZero Nero GT tires (PSI: 33 front / 35 rear). At this time, I don't know of any performance brake pads that would fit yet. Investigating that now. This was a silly test of the car. I basically drove it off the lot, added some wheels and lowered it. I didn't take it too seriously, since my track car was at the shop. I didn't have time to change anything. I had less than 24 hours from the time I found out my GT4 was still broken to me waking up at 4:45am to drive to Laguna Seca. I was expecting to be done earlier. The car has some promise. Obviously, me and others need to play with it more and see what it can/cannot do. But that is the fun part.
Regenerative braking could be useful for racing, but there is a major problem with the way Tesla implements it. Tesla puts heavy (or light) regen on throttle lift, instead of fully integrating it with the brake pedal. The way Tesla does it is usable for normal street driving, but has the potential to make trailing throttle oversteer worse during racing or panic stops on the street. Tesla should integrate regenerative braking with the brake pedal, as other EV and hybrid makers correctly do for ergonomic, human factors, safety and vehicle dynamics reasons. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-off_oversteer Most street (production) cars are designed to understeer since understeering is generally stable and can be corrected by for example lifting off the throttle or braking, within limits. This is exactly the behavior of most non-racing-trained drivers in an emergency; they lift or brake, and usually too strongly. Oversteer is generally unstable, especially for untrained drivers, because further lifting off the throttle or braking will increase the oversteer, often leading to loss of control and exiting the road backwards or in a spin. These are basics taught in any racing school, but most street drivers have no knowledge or training for how to handle it. People who drive on ice or snow often are more likely to learn about this, and it's a reason why Scandanavian drivers seem disproportionately successful at rallying and racing in general.
Thanks for the information, so we can imagine what the second gen Roadster will do. It is really hard to have to wait so long till we can see the Roadster on the track.
The Model 3 observably did fine. It's possible to get high power out of medium power cells simply by having a larger battery pack. All of the Performance versions of Teslas do that, as do any of the Teslas with larger packs in general. The new Roadster likely does also, by virtue of having a very large pack. It's possible to use higher power cells, but the tradeoff is usually lower capacity. It's also not needed for a large capacity pack for the reasons above.
Regen was on 'Low' the whole time until I was entering the paddock. I change it to 'Standard' here: ua-cam.com/video/iFr3ecpr5oU/v-deo.htmlm32s Mainly so I don't slam into the tire wall at the paddock entry, since my brakes were gone. ;-)
Stability control systems are helpful within limits, but can't overcome the laws of physics or the incorrect responses of untrained humans when physical limits are exceeded, as can happen in an emergency on the road. Regenerative braking belongs integrated with the brakes.
Tesla should allow regen to be turned off, which will allow car to be pushed harder as the battery will stay cooler a bit longer. Either way, you'll need much better brakes.
So weird to watch a car in the track and no engine or exhaust sound. My brain tricks me to think that he's going really slow when it's just the opposite.
I am buying a Model 3 and am a 20+ year EV driver and supporter. One thing Tesla gets wrong is putting heavy regen on the throttle instead of properly integrating it with the brake pedal. Heavy regen under lift throttle conditions isn't really appropriate for track use (or street use in emergencies). Regenerative braking belongs fully integrated with the brake pedal. (Though creep and some mild drag off throttle can be useful, as they are on an automatic transmission.) The reasons are many: ergonomics, safety, vehicle dynamics, etc. Most untrained drivers lift off the throttle in an emergency which only makes trailing throttle oversteer worse. Heavy regen on throttle lift compounds that problem even further. Bad design for safety, ergonomics and vehicle dynamics. I wish Tesla would correct this, or make it a software setting, even though that would involve revalidating the car design.
The car is basically a computer, so there's no excuse in not having the regen setting be fully user-configurable. You should be able to even turn it off if you want to.
+Justin Crediblename It will be hard to take the New Tesla Roadster seriously as a track or performance car if it doesn't have regenerative braking fully integrated with the brake pedal.
+zolikoff Yes it's "just software" but it requires formal design and validation. It's not as simple as just writing a few lines of code. It also requires an understanding of vehicle dynamics, human factors science, etc., which Tesla disappointingly doesn't yet seem to fully grasp or take seriously enough. (P.S. I am not a Tesla hater; I'm buying one. I'd like them to do better.)
If you don't want regen braking, just supply throttle. I like having regen on the accelerator - I can trail brake into the corner, and as I move my foot from brake to throttle I am still getting some braking to keep weight on the front wheels, and when I want it neutral I press lightly on the accelerator, then transition to power past the apex. Putting regen braking on the brake pedal means going DBW for brakes, since you don't want any friction brakes at low levels if you are doing regen braking. That increases the risk of losing all brakes with a failure. Additionally, it makes it very hard to seamlessly blend regen and friction braking at the transition point, which you can see in every car that tries to do so. I think it is the right decision, and I am very happy with it in my 2012 S85.
Video of Mountain Pass Performance's Model 3 meet-up at Alice's Restaurant in Woodside, CA showing off their suspension prototype hardware here: ua-cam.com/video/L63v-LMtgs8/v-deo.html
They wore out fast because the stock brakes on Teslas aren't designed for track work they are actually designed for low use because of regen. But as a general rule for any car if you plan to track it you should get upgraded brakes
I unfortunately didn't get a perfect snapshot of this. I remembered to look after I was leaving Laguna Seca to head to the Supercharger...so 2 minutes of driving from the paddock garage, just after the session showed 1186 Wh/mi. I wouldn't put a lot of weight into this number, since I don't know if the Trip changed the average in that period of time. We do know that I used 135 miles in the session.
I used 135 miles in the 20 minute track session. I had reset the trip computer, but I forgot to capture a snapshot of the Wh/mi until I was ~2 minutes into driving to the Supercharger. :-/ So, the reading I captured of 1,186 Wh/mi (~2 minutes after session) might be a little off, since I drove a little from the garage paddock to the point where I remember to capture it. Next time...
The warning message was the tire pressure warning. I lowered the front to 33 PSI and the rear to 35 PSI (more compliant tire on track provides better contact patch...but it is a balance with temp as well). The car puts up a warning if the tire pressure goes below 40 PSI.
How much hp does this have? Perfectly illustrates why it sucks. 260 hp, accelerates like it has 120hp once it reaches 80 mph. Not to mention the interior which is worse than junk, in fact, saying it's junk is an insult to junk. Tesla has people fooled with low quality products that are vastly overpriced for what they are JUST because they accelerate quickly off the line. Well, if that's the only thing you want from a car, to be quick off the line and slow afterwards, go on.
i can assure you that a tesla does not accelerate like it has 120 hp once it is past 80mph. And neither past 100mph. Even the Model S60 pulls harder above 80mph than my old 6 cylinder BMW.
Help me understand whether this or any other comment/complaint about the lack of engine sound, is a joke...Electric Vehicles don't generate ANY engine noise-NEVER! (Double-Negative Intended). If this was a joke...then duh!
I really like the fact that there is no engine noise. You can concentrate better on driving and for sure noise will eat your energy faster, so less fun!
@flippynl I think you are confusing what he said about german autobahn where it's not unusual for people to drive above 200kph (125mph). There are also lots of videos people doing 250+ kph (155+ mph) on those highways, with quality cars of course.
I really don't get why people are saying this is fast. It is very slow. 2min lap time is very slow in Laguna Seca The amount of wind noise in the car is not really "luxurious" either. An Miata or BRZ will beat this car any day. Moreover, take any entry Germany lux sedan, it will easily beat this car with stock tires.
Agreed. This is not that fast. My fastest time is 1:41.9 in my Porsche GT4. Conditions on the track were really bad (river turn 3, mud at apexes, ruts off track) and this was the first session of the day (9:30am @ 40°F/4°C) with a car that has never been on the track. Just to note, three cars were destroyed on this day after individually hitting the wall at different times throughout the day. Yes we need a proper day and setup to really see what the Model 3 can do. This was just a "why not try it...my GT4 is in the shop, let's see what happens..." The wind noise was mainly due to track regulations require the front windows to be fully down. This is in case you crash or flipped the car, they can quickly pull you out of the car through the door window if the car is on fire.
Mmmgghrrgh...Beavers and ducks! Sorry, fell asleep there. I didn't think it was possible but you have done it...made laps around Laguna Seca utterly mind numbing. A stock '71 Pinto would be light years more fun.
Crap audio. Couldn't even hear the engine.
:D
It has a really good muffler.
good for getting feedback from tyres and aerodynamics though?
They should copy the BMW i8 and pipe in fake engine sound through the speakers
No that is just straight up embarrassing.
Quietest lap of Laguna Seca
The HOAs around Laguna are still complaining that its too loud.
Pretty good performance! Thanks for the video! My Model S would have overheated.
yeah way better cooling and a lot less mass to lug around. plus no ludicrous mode!
Awesome - I've done 31 track days in my Model S, and the stock Ferodo pads hold up just fine (I did upgrade the brake fluid) even if they don't have as hard an initial bite as the pads on my dedicated track car. Nice that you get a full session without any power limiting - my wife wouldn't let me take her 3 on the track, and it's probably a good thing - she would not be happy if I wore out her brakes :).
That pretty much ties Jeremy Clarkson's best lap there in a 2004 Honda NSX!
Hope you can one day get a Performance Model 3 and show us the differences in the track.
If you get to upgrade the wheels and brakes in the Standard one you used in this video let us see how it tracks too, cheers!
Thank you so much for posting the video! Very smooth driving; you made it look slow, which is really nice! I saw water at the apex of turn 3, thus the sudden understeer there.
Model 3 is able to carry good speed through turns and has good thrust at the exits.
People should keep in mind this is the second slowest Model 3. It's not dual motor, and it's not the performance version. It's intended to compete against BMW 330i, not BMW M3, even though he passes several BMW 3 series, including an M3.
You must be a Tesla sales repeating the same thing over and over again.
Great vid! Expected it to fall flat after a couple laps, but dang! Proper pads, and fluid, and it looks like the 3 could be a decent hobbyists track day car.
Tesla Roadster can't come soon enough!
Started watching the video and was thinking that you were not going that fast... then I noticed the speedometer and realized visually it was quite misleading...
Next time used or turn on the back up camera so that you can use that also as a rear view mirror 😁
I was considering doing this, but I wanted to capture the map location on the video. I have typically used data overlays, but it was nice to have the map of the track in frame of the video.
That looks exhilarating in a different way not having engine/exhaust noise. Like a roller-coaster.
I'm impressed! Even though we don't know anything about the Caterham, M3 and 911 you are passing, it does look like it would be possible to take it out on a track day and have fun. Maybe even just a brake pad and fluid upgrade would help. Only worry I have is that it might not perform that well in higher temperatures. Thanks for sharing!
Agreed. There is a window of optimism here. Higher ambient temperatures would be really important to test. Given that this was the first session of the day, not ideal track conditions, and first time with this car on the track...yea, this car can do more than what I did with it. I think it could get to ~1:50 lap times when pushed and better set up on the car (better tires, performance pads/rotors, higher temp brake fluid, traction control tweaks, e-brake SW adjustment...). Encouraging at least.
Great! On paper, the M3 is about as fast as a BMW e46 M3. So with the right brake pads, brake fluid, and tires, I think sub 1:50 should be quite doable. Can't wait to get mine and maybe I'll see you out at Laguna Seca!
Keep in mind this is not the performance version of the Model 3. In fact, it's the second slowest. Models should be, in order of increasing speed: Single motor small pack, single motor large pack (this car), dual motor large pack, dual motor performance version. (Not sure if either dual motor will get the small pack; sort of doesn't make much sense.)
Tesla's delivery estimator says this for dual motor: Dual Motor All-Wheel Drive - Choice of 220 or 310 mile range
I wonder if the Sb TM3 might be quicker in the turns. It is almost 300 pounds lighter with the same brakes and tires.
It probably would be. And the LR TM3 would be faster in the straights. It would be an interesting matchup. Which car is faster would probably depend on the track.
Peteto Chibs, He had consistent times till his brakes gave out. No thermal throttling. I don not think my BRZ stock could hold out at Laguna balls out for for 20min on pump gas. The brakes would start to fade or the engine would start to cut back power or both. With track pads running e85 I can stay out till the tiers give up. I am thinking with track pads the 3 will hold out on the track for some time.
Formula for racing: High Temp Fluid changed out before each track day., Race compound brake pads, front and back, with new front discs and as much air as you can get flowing over the calipers with ducts and high air flow wheels(lose the aeros); And, the last is most important since you are fighting heat. BTW, those four puck calipers should give you plenty of force...enjoyed watching you run my favorite track.
you hear a lot more of the traction and aerodynamics without the engine noise,
Which could be in the future a good thing e.g. for the Roadster, as you can adjust better your speed and braking force. and also not having to shift will squeeze a little on the lap times compared to ICE cars. So with continuous battery weight drops (higher energy density) we will soon have only lap records by EVs. If the Model 3 is good on track, the Roadster will be a beast. And it has the carbon ceramic brake discs of the Laferrari (the test driver spoke at the unveil about that, he worked for Ferrari in the past).
Aaaahahahahahah, I wonder what that guy in the Lotus Super Seven thought when he got passed by a fucking Tesla Model 3.
BlackTalon53
About the same as the guy in the 911 (turbo?)??
You mean the black one at 7:00? I'm pretty sure he let the Tesla pass on purpose. No way a Model 3 can out accelerate a full on 911 Turbo.
That's normal at track days - most run groups have no passing without a point-by, so both cars know when and where the pass is happening, lessening the risk of contact. You're expected to point a car by if they are on your tail - if they go there, they are faster than you over the whole lap even if you can out-drag them down the straights.
He thought... well I just have to wait a couple laps and this shit will be in limp mode or cooked brakes...
Yes but the Model 3 still caught him.
Thanks for sharing. Fun to see you reel in some ICE cars with the acceleration in the straights.
Really impressed. The model 3 was keeping up with much faster performance cars, considering this is a base model family sedan. It even overtook a few. I had to chuckle at the brakes failing though. What did Tesla say? You'll never have to change your breakpads again? Well, you might have to do that fairly frequently if you like spirited driving. I was also really happy to see the powertrain and battery didn't overheat even after several laps, unlike the model S which can only do one lap before overheating and limiting power. They have really done a good job with cooling, it seems.
Model S can certainly do more than one lap at full power...
> 3rd - about the Tesla on a road race track. I have tracked my car on Road America - a 4.1 mile road track in Elkhart Lake WI. It does indeed go into reduced power mode. But it’s not 45 seconds. It’s more like 7 miles. By the start lap 3, through lap 4, I was in reduced power. In the first 7 miles, it eats most things on the track on the straights. And it eats almost everything on the track in turns. But it does indeed go into reduced power mode.
www.quora.com/Is-Teslas-claim-that-Model-S-is-the-quickest-production-car-on-Earth-true
Many production cars, when used for amateur racing, need and get racing brake pads to cope with the higher braking loads. That's at least as common as tire upgrades.
It's no surprise that Model 3 is better around a race track in general, due to being lighter, smaller and more efficient than Model S.
I'm not sure cooling is the difference. The Model 3 has a different type of motor, inverter, and battery.
Yes, that is an excellent point. In any case they managed to overcome the early model S's overheating issues.
Sample size of 1 may be too small to make that judgement, and it was a relatively cold morning. That said, Tesla has very good battery scientists and engineers and they have been making good improvements in battery technology, thermal management, etc.
But this one result was definitely positive. Being able to do 9 full laps does seems like battery progress and improvement.
Fastest cool down lap!
Great driving. Looks like just an upgrade of pads and fluid will see you right.
So did it pass sound?? :) . Kudos to you taking the car out - how many times did you have to charge it though? The car doing mid-150s on stock brakes is awesome. I do wonder how the car would hold up in say 80F weather in August though.
I went through 135 miles in 20 minutes in 40°F temps. It would be possible to do two 20 mins. sessions if the long range battery was close to full.
I just charged once at the Monterey Tesla store, since I was done for the day after the first session of the day. The nice thing about charging at the Monterey Tesla store was the number of people that just wanted to talk and sit in the Model 3. So, that took longer than I needed to be there for charging...it was just fun to chat with people about the car.
I think the car could do 1:50 with better tires, better brakes, and better track conditions. It will be interesting to see how the car behaves at higher ambient temperatures. There would be a few SW tweaks that would also help (ex. adjust traction control, disable emergency braking, disable e-brake when in Park to avoid warping disc brake cooling after session...).
Thanks for responding with the detail. Very cool you did this and better you have some experience on track vs. a newer track driver. Most cars stock aren't ready for the challenges of a 20min sessions. When magazines do their tests it's one hot lap so it's not as abusive. It's neat that the car is able to withstand. I know my car gets maybe 6mpg at laguna. I go through 1.5 tanks at laguna in a good day. sounds like for the Model 3 you would go through 2-3 "tanks" if doing 5 sessions. But cost is lower for you-ish since gas at laguna is unless you fill up during lunch. Kudos to you for doing this.
Matt, there are a number of NEMA 14-50 plugs (50 Amp) around Laguna that you probably could get a good charge at rather than a trip to a Supercharger.
So cool love it, Matt!
Hey Yomi! I would love to see your Porsche out there! ;-)
You know, I am just a pouser. You can do 2.5 laps before I lap one ^^
Hope you've got your name down for a Roadster. Looking forward to that.
You have to order the Roadster, the car is so low cost for its performance. And when I see the Model 3 (even not performance version) doing so well on track, it is clear that the Roadster has the potential to set lap records everywhere and blow every other production car away. It has the carbon ceramic brake discs of the Laferrari (the test driver spoke about that at the unveil). Imagine simply with this insane acceleration what you can squeeze out on the straight lines. I hope Tesla will manage to make it relatively light, as weight could be the only flaw. First gen Roadster was approx. 1300 kg, but smaller. 1600 kg would be great, like the Porsche 918.
I like that line wide on the green pavement on the last turn. The drivers that try and stay inside the rumble strip have a hard time.
that's super interesting; with the quiet powertrain the video isn't very dramatic but you're moving at a decent clip. How much of the battery do you consume? And can you last a full track day by charging between sessions?
I'm so jelous. I've been a hobby mechanic since I was 16 and bought my first car with paper route money. I'm 41 now. I would love the opportunity to do this.
Great driving & cool video! Bodes very well for the higher power versions. I hope they put the bigger Model S rear motor in the 3 at some point. Maybe after the all wheel drive version.
Are you nuts? They should put a larger version of the Model 3 motor in the Model S!
Dual motor and performance versions of Model 3 are coming. What's impressive is that this is (his very first track drive of) the second slowest Model 3 and it's already faster than multiple BMW 3 series on the track including a BMW M3.
Yeah, those will be great. As it is, it's very impressive, although the performance figures are exactly the same as a BMW Z4M (from 0-100mph) so it shouldn't really be a massive suprise haha! What I really meant to say was I hope they do a performance version which is JUST rear wheel drive, that would be epic.
Performance versions after the Model S P85 were all dual motor to get better efficiency and more total power to the road largely because the front wheels share in (and contribute to) the longitudinal acceleration. I expect the Performance version of Model 3 to also be dual motor.
Pure rear wheel drive may have slightly better feel though, as you note. It's also a slightly different driving dynamic to use the throttle to control the power only at the rear and be able to adjust the car's balance that way. For example, it allows more active control of oversteer and can be used to balance out understeer. But it's a matter of degree since AWD can also do that if there's a rear power bias, as there is in all dual motor Teslas (and probably most other performance oriented AWD cars).
Well at least you won't have the problem with the sound station 😀 You can go flat out! 1:29
The tiger strips aren't intended as the apex as when you run over them, you're unsettling the car.
Fun to watch the possibilities. Have you driven a Model S around this track? I'd be curious to know if the 3's maneuverability is a match for the S's acceleration.
No. I have a Tesla Model S P90D with Ludicrous mode, but with the power limiting and the weight of the Model S...not worth it to me to take it on the track. The Model 3 had really good maneuverability around the track. The lowered suspension and 19" wheels helped plant the car in the corners.
Looks good! Very capable looking car (and driver, I might add). Thanks for sharing!
So, no sign of overheating? that's great!
I would say it's normal with 4° C (39° F) . I want to see a track day when it's 30° C or 85° F
brakes gone after 4 laps? What's normal? how many laps for a good set of brembos?
9 laps drained 43% of a tank. what's normal?
thanks for posting.
Yes, these brakes are obviously designed for regen braking, and not for track use. That is okay. The Model 3 is great with these brakes for daily driving. However, a good set of performance pads/rotors/fluids would be required. This was more of a "Since my GT4 is still in the shop...let's see what happens with the Model 3...". No prep, last minute, didn't think the thing would run past two laps...but it did. Promising.
For context, my Porsche GT4 goes through a half a tank (7.5 gallons) in a 20 minute track session. I need to fill up after each session.
Thanks for some realistic ICE context!
Eventually tracks will get fast chargers. It will happen organically as EVs proliferate in coming years due to continually falling battery costs and much lower EV operating costs. In addition to already costing much less to operate, EVs will also cost less to buy than fossil cars eventually.
Thank you so much for doing this. btw, did the car go to limp mode? Or was the acceleration same throughout the course?
Matt Crowley I'll check that out. Thanks.
Why were you driving on a track with traction control on ('Slip Start' disables it partially)? Why were you driving with the windows down? When you realized the brakes were metal on metal, why did you continue to drive? Why not drive with standard Regen?
Matt, do you think the dual motor Model 3 will be a better track car, or will it add too much weight up front? Sounds like the current RWD version has an excellent balance and handling dynamic.
Personally, the RWD is playful and fun. You can see on Turn 3 when I hit water across the turn...the car does a good job with a balanced slide or a little oversteer. The Model 3 AWD Performance will be interesting to see how Tesla designs it. I would like to see a Performance RWD option...but this is fun to even consider all of this. Electric track cars are coming...or here today. ;-)
Tesla has gone with dual motors for the performance versions to get more efficient regen from the front wheels and more power to (all) the wheels under acceleration. Since you have a P90D and track your cars, we can assume you know that. :)
I bet you coulda got another few minutes out of the brakes if you had standard regen on from the beginning!
Will you be getting the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires from the 20" wheel offering on the Tesla store? Because tire grip is a limiting factor with the all seasons.
Hi Matt, How did the model 3 do in the turns? Any thoughts/info on its performance? obviously a heavy car is not going to turn like a lightweight Porsche but wondering what you thought?
Looking forward to seeing what you find! Great videos and information! thanks
I hope we can see some video of those brakes or what's left of them. What are you going to do for brakes now make your own?
Here is the front left rotor/pad: photos.app.goo.gl/b5RyLeY3EttwOa5P2, and the front right: photos.app.goo.gl/4xVbO3yxqwrJmMHB2
I haven't had a chance to take the wheels off yet. I might do that myself this weekend, get it to Tesla (I haven't reached out to them yet, nor heard from them), or my trusty local racing shop EDGE Motorworks in Mountain View, CA: www.edgemotorworksmv.com/
Wow that's crazy so what's the plan going forward no more racing the 3? would like to know the outcome good luck.
My next scheduled track days for the year are all at Thunderhill in Willows, CA. There really isn't a good charging solution for the Thunderhill track (Corning, CA is too far away to make it work). Laguna Seca is ideal right now, since there are three Tesla Superchargers 'close' (
I wonder if the Model 3 with the smaller battery will do even better. I realize it has less acceleration, but the lighter weight might make up for it in the corners and braking.
How many laps were you able to get on the full charge? How was the heat?
Looks like fun! Can't for winter to be done so autocross can start😁
and that's why you don't Jerry rig a headrest go pro mount using a piece of PVC pipe ..
I wonder if the relatively cold day helped keep your car from overheating.
1:57 is pretty quick. I wonder how Randy Pobst would do!
My Ariel Atom 2 time was ~1:50: ua-cam.com/video/qXZVi1oAcEQ/v-deo.html, my current Porsche GT4 time is 1:41.9: ua-cam.com/video/Zsh3d0fNq7U/v-deo.html
Tesla has to have Ceramic rotors as an option on P 3 D to make guys like you happy,brakes will never fail or overheat,big bucks though, sure some will bite
Ok, That was Awesome! I wonder if the 300 pound lighter 200 mile range 3 will be faster around the track.
That would be fun to find out! Tesla's press kit claims lower performance specs on the 220 mile version...but your point is well taken: www.tesla.com/presskit#model3
There are videos of guys driving Tesla's (Model S and Model X) on german autobahns at night (low traffic, low temperature, rare braking, 100-120mph) and those things just start overheating after 20+ minutes and go into 50% power "limp" mode.
On the other hand, I wonder what would happen if someone decided to drive this Tesla on a trip in the middle of the summer (like a lot of europeans do) with road temps above 90°F, while also traveling over those long busy curvy hill roads with an elevation change of 3000+ft.
I'd dare any Tesla owner to try and disable regen braking over a 200-300 mile trip, with 50 mile long combination of 3000ft descends/climbs. Hell I'd even give you a headstart, slap on ANY brakes you want on those wheels :D
nice little track! if you did this on The Ring you've had a 50% chance of owning a wreck now ;)
The quiet nature of EV poses some potential, if tracks were limited to EV's only then it would be plausible to have them within urban area's that could be a really great thing once self driving becomes common and more people need some real fun in their cars. Heck the way the US is slapping laws to limit its citizens freedom tracks might become the only place you are aloud to actually "drive" your car.
Ross Linder That could be a possibility, though half of the fun is the engine sound and manual shifting.
Ha ha yes for those like retro I actually put together a sample sound for Tesla tried to tweet it to them .. but it was inspired by Jeremy Clarkson .. so its a two part sound, the first part is played inside the car, the second is played outside the car .. IMO this would get Clarkson the total effect he so loves .. soundcloud.com/ross-linder-939326061/clarkston_tesla-mp3-1
90% of the fun is race-craft experiences and tracks that require constant line changes to attack and defend then going for the perfect lap when you get clean air. My best experiences are In karts where you never even care about engine noise and many have no gears. Just raw speed exhilaration and racing.
I guess if you don't want to race or care about smoothness and lap times, then blasting around in a car with no mufflers could be fun.
You are not gonna do any racing in a street legal Tesla, or any other daily driver.
Driving loses a lot without engine noise and shifting.... that looks boring.
It looks boring. But when you're the driver it's another story.
You just lost your warranty based on Tesla's statement...
Matt, any issues with Motor, Battery or Controller thermal limits on the track?
No issues with those items. More details in the original forum post here: teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-3-track-day-laguna-seca.109818/
How would I do this? If I had a Model 3 and I wanted to drive it on the track just for fun, how could I make that possible?
Question for Matt Crowley -- based on how the Model 3 feels to drive regularly when regen is set to "Standard", do you think setting the Regen to "Standard" for the track would have helped preserved your brake pads significantly?
Deviant Technologist, not a significant amount. When tracking a car, the threshold braking is where most of the energy and heat go to quickly slow the car for turn in to the apex. Braking late and braking hard helps with lower lap times, but does cause more thermal load on the brakes. It will be interesting to see how regen and thermal power management evolves over time with more interest in performance EVs.
Why so much camera movement? Is it the road? The camera? The car? Is this normal?
What we're people's reactions to seeing a Model 3 at Laguna Seca?
Really funny that Tesla Model 3 overtaking the Porsche at min. 7:03 and weird to have no engine noise. With electric race cars you hear some whining, here the car is so quite.
Why did it seem so slow to me? Almost as if it was set to the -far superior- metric system. The sound, I guess?
I don't know much about auto racing. Is it normal to got through the brake pads in 10 minutes with a road car?
It's very common to upgrade at least the brake pads on production cars to racing pads, when going racing. This was on stock brake pads. For street driving, regenerative braking does most of the braking on any Hybrid or EV, and the friction brakes get literally almost no use. Going full power on a race track is different and stresses all the systems on a car, but especially the brakes and pads.
A cool 10 second look at the exterior of the car would be a joy, some pictures ?
Pictures here: photos.app.goo.gl/dsQpFsvkNk9NHVR22
Looking great ! needed permission to use the pics for a post on my website? Thanks !
Iqitdar Ali - Thanks for asking. The pictures are on a public link, so no worries to use on your website.
I wonder how much faster the 3 would be with good tiers and pads.
I did the ReFuel event at Laguna Seca in 2015, with my 2015 Tesla Model S-70D. I got 3rd in the Production GT class at the event, turning somewhere in the 1:50s.
But, the Model S overhead and slows down, which seems like what is happening here (you started at 1:57, and then were consistently over 2 minutes.
ReFuel 2015 - Laguna Seca Raceway, Monterey, California USA
PRODUCTION GT CLASS
PLACE DRIVER VEHICLE LAP TIME
1 Joe Nuxoll Tesla Roadster S 01:49.322
2 Vlad Tovbin Tesla Model S 01:54.947
3 Tony Williams Tesla Model S 01:57.068
4 Jack Brown Tesla Model S 01:57.278
5 Brian Manthos Tesla Model S 01:57.736
6 Tom Ikelman Tesla Roadster S 02:03.386
7 Pascal Vienne Tesla Model S 02:03.598
8 Anton Notkin Tesla Model S 02:05.983
9 Megan Gardner Tesla Roadster S 02:18.789
10 Carl Meyer Tesla Model S 02:21.546
Nice! Factory rubber?
Hopefully there are competition pads that fit. That and a little Willwood brake juice and you'll be quick indeed, or at least not in the wall.
Not factory rubber. 19" TSportline cast wheels w/ Pirelli PZero Nero GT tires (PSI: 33 front / 35 rear).
At this time, I don't know of any performance brake pads that would fit yet. Investigating that now.
This was a silly test of the car. I basically drove it off the lot, added some wheels and lowered it. I didn't take it too seriously, since my track car was at the shop. I didn't have time to change anything. I had less than 24 hours from the time I found out my GT4 was still broken to me waking up at 4:45am to drive to Laguna Seca. I was expecting to be done earlier. The car has some promise. Obviously, me and others need to play with it more and see what it can/cannot do. But that is the fun part.
I suppose using regen brake from the start would help too.
Thanks for the reply. Keep us posted :)
Regenerative braking could be useful for racing, but there is a major problem with the way Tesla implements it. Tesla puts heavy (or light) regen on throttle lift, instead of fully integrating it with the brake pedal. The way Tesla does it is usable for normal street driving, but has the potential to make trailing throttle oversteer worse during racing or panic stops on the street. Tesla should integrate regenerative braking with the brake pedal, as other EV and hybrid makers correctly do for ergonomic, human factors, safety and vehicle dynamics reasons. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift-off_oversteer
Most street (production) cars are designed to understeer since understeering is generally stable and can be corrected by for example lifting off the throttle or braking, within limits. This is exactly the behavior of most non-racing-trained drivers in an emergency; they lift or brake, and usually too strongly. Oversteer is generally unstable, especially for untrained drivers, because further lifting off the throttle or braking will increase the oversteer, often leading to loss of control and exiting the road backwards or in a spin. These are basics taught in any racing school, but most street drivers have no knowledge or training for how to handle it.
People who drive on ice or snow often are more likely to learn about this, and it's a reason why Scandanavian drivers seem disproportionately successful at rallying and racing in general.
Oh I see, that's unfortunate. Thanks!
The first-generation Roadster do 1:50.888 lap time around Laguna
Thanks for the information, so we can imagine what the second gen Roadster will do. It is really hard to have to wait so long till we can see the Roadster on the track.
Thanks for sharing the video!!
I just don't think the battery cells are designed for constant flat out runs. I'm sure the roadster will have high discharge cells more suited.
The Model 3 observably did fine. It's possible to get high power out of medium power cells simply by having a larger battery pack. All of the Performance versions of Teslas do that, as do any of the Teslas with larger packs in general. The new Roadster likely does also, by virtue of having a very large pack.
It's possible to use higher power cells, but the tradeoff is usually lower capacity. It's also not needed for a large capacity pack for the reasons above.
Did you have the regen on Low the whole time?
Regen was on 'Low' the whole time until I was entering the paddock. I change it to 'Standard' here: ua-cam.com/video/iFr3ecpr5oU/v-deo.htmlm32s Mainly so I don't slam into the tire wall at the paddock entry, since my brakes were gone. ;-)
@loanword eggcom - Good thing the car has a very sophisticated traction control and electronic stability control system... Not really an issue.
Stability control systems are helpful within limits, but can't overcome the laws of physics or the incorrect responses of untrained humans when physical limits are exceeded, as can happen in an emergency on the road. Regenerative braking belongs integrated with the brakes.
Tesla should allow regen to be turned off, which will allow car to be pushed harder as the battery will stay cooler a bit longer. Either way, you'll need much better brakes.
So weird to watch a car in the track and no engine or exhaust sound. My brain tricks me to think that he's going really slow when it's just the opposite.
I am buying a Model 3 and am a 20+ year EV driver and supporter. One thing Tesla gets wrong is putting heavy regen on the throttle instead of properly integrating it with the brake pedal. Heavy regen under lift throttle conditions isn't really appropriate for track use (or street use in emergencies).
Regenerative braking belongs fully integrated with the brake pedal. (Though creep and some mild drag off throttle can be useful, as they are on an automatic transmission.) The reasons are many: ergonomics, safety, vehicle dynamics, etc. Most untrained drivers lift off the throttle in an emergency which only makes trailing throttle oversteer worse. Heavy regen on throttle lift compounds that problem even further. Bad design for safety, ergonomics and vehicle dynamics. I wish Tesla would correct this, or make it a software setting, even though that would involve revalidating the car design.
maybe they'll have that feature on the sports car that they're building.
The car is basically a computer, so there's no excuse in not having the regen setting be fully user-configurable. You should be able to even turn it off if you want to.
+Justin Crediblename It will be hard to take the New Tesla Roadster seriously as a track or performance car if it doesn't have regenerative braking fully integrated with the brake pedal.
+zolikoff Yes it's "just software" but it requires formal design and validation. It's not as simple as just writing a few lines of code. It also requires an understanding of vehicle dynamics, human factors science, etc., which Tesla disappointingly doesn't yet seem to fully grasp or take seriously enough. (P.S. I am not a Tesla hater; I'm buying one. I'd like them to do better.)
If you don't want regen braking, just supply throttle. I like having regen on the accelerator - I can trail brake into the corner, and as I move my foot from brake to throttle I am still getting some braking to keep weight on the front wheels, and when I want it neutral I press lightly on the accelerator, then transition to power past the apex.
Putting regen braking on the brake pedal means going DBW for brakes, since you don't want any friction brakes at low levels if you are doing regen braking. That increases the risk of losing all brakes with a failure. Additionally, it makes it very hard to seamlessly blend regen and friction braking at the transition point, which you can see in every car that tries to do so.
I think it is the right decision, and I am very happy with it in my 2012 S85.
Great video! Thankyou very much for this.
Video of Mountain Pass Performance's Model 3 meet-up at Alice's Restaurant in Woodside, CA showing off their suspension prototype hardware here: ua-cam.com/video/L63v-LMtgs8/v-deo.html
I created a video showing the brake pads after this track day: ua-cam.com/video/YMl41JzQLWE/v-deo.html
Peteto Chibs The model 3 have a different type of motor that can take a lot more abuse than the model s and x's motor before overheating.
Probably is fast ,but without engine noise it's not very engaging
Awesome! No black flags for sound? LOL.
did the brake wear out really fast or is that normal
They wore out fast because the stock brakes on Teslas aren't designed for track work they are actually designed for low use because of regen. But as a general rule for any car if you plan to track it you should get upgraded brakes
I would love to see Tesla go Formula E racing. They would learn alot
nice. what was average watt hour per mile plz?
I unfortunately didn't get a perfect snapshot of this. I remembered to look after I was leaving Laguna Seca to head to the Supercharger...so 2 minutes of driving from the paddock garage, just after the session showed 1186 Wh/mi. I wouldn't put a lot of weight into this number, since I don't know if the Trip changed the average in that period of time. We do know that I used 135 miles in the session.
Energy consumption during the ride?
I used 135 miles in the 20 minute track session. I had reset the trip computer, but I forgot to capture a snapshot of the Wh/mi until I was ~2 minutes into driving to the Supercharger. :-/ So, the reading I captured of 1,186 Wh/mi (~2 minutes after session) might be a little off, since I drove a little from the garage paddock to the point where I remember to capture it. Next time...
What warning messages were there on the screen?
The warning message was the tire pressure warning. I lowered the front to 33 PSI and the rear to 35 PSI (more compliant tire on track provides better contact patch...but it is a balance with temp as well). The car puts up a warning if the tire pressure goes below 40 PSI.
does the battery and brakes keep up?
sry, i saw the end of the video now, but i knew the brakes wouldn't keep up kkk.
If you're curious, more details here: teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-3-track-day-laguna-seca.109818/
The audio of the video inst working (can you upload again?)
How much hp does this have? Perfectly illustrates why it sucks. 260 hp, accelerates like it has 120hp once it reaches 80 mph. Not to mention the interior which is worse than junk, in fact, saying it's junk is an insult to junk. Tesla has people fooled with low quality products that are vastly overpriced for what they are JUST because they accelerate quickly off the line. Well, if that's the only thing you want from a car, to be quick off the line and slow afterwards, go on.
i can assure you that a tesla does not accelerate like it has 120 hp once it is past 80mph. And neither past 100mph. Even the Model S60 pulls harder above 80mph than my old 6 cylinder BMW.
A little help, maybe you should at least try to be credible, your trolling is to evident.
its like Forza you have a mini map of the track lmao
Ah the famous corkscrew!
18 or 19 wheels
OMG! 105
Jesus!
Couldn't evening hear the engine
Help me understand whether this or any other comment/complaint about the lack of engine sound, is a joke...Electric Vehicles don't generate ANY engine noise-NEVER! (Double-Negative Intended).
If this was a joke...then duh!
I really like the fact that there is no engine noise. You can concentrate better on driving and for sure noise will eat your energy faster, so less fun!
lol... interessting the american Perspective. 105 mph is nothing here in germany where everybody drives 130 often times on the autobahn
i think you are confusing mph and kph. 105mph is already 170kph.
@flippynl
I think you are confusing what he said about german autobahn where it's not unusual for people to drive above 200kph (125mph). There are also lots of videos people doing 250+ kph (155+ mph) on those highways, with quality cars of course.
@ flippynl no. 105mph is like crusing around here... Soooo Slow ;)
I hate that this is what the future holds. Races with feature a golf clap because there is no need to be any louder. So boring.
r.i.p brake pads.
Do not be going in peoples Lane
I could have done better in my 2006 Murano.
Rigid suspension and noisy
the windows are down, that might explain the noise.
I really don't get why people are saying this is fast.
It is very slow. 2min lap time is very slow in Laguna Seca
The amount of wind noise in the car is not really "luxurious" either.
An Miata or BRZ will beat this car any day. Moreover, take any entry Germany lux sedan, it will easily beat this car with stock tires.
James B With stock brakes in unideal track conditions such as this one, I highly doubt it.
Agreed. This is not that fast. My fastest time is 1:41.9 in my Porsche GT4. Conditions on the track were really bad (river turn 3, mud at apexes, ruts off track) and this was the first session of the day (9:30am @ 40°F/4°C) with a car that has never been on the track. Just to note, three cars were destroyed on this day after individually hitting the wall at different times throughout the day. Yes we need a proper day and setup to really see what the Model 3 can do. This was just a "why not try it...my GT4 is in the shop, let's see what happens..."
The wind noise was mainly due to track regulations require the front windows to be fully down. This is in case you crash or flipped the car, they can quickly pull you out of the car through the door window if the car is on fire.
Was one of those cars a 911 with a roof rack?
wtf????? this was a very very slow test run......booring.....
Mmmgghrrgh...Beavers and ducks! Sorry, fell asleep there. I didn't think it was possible but you have done it...made laps around Laguna Seca utterly mind numbing. A stock '71 Pinto would be light years more fun.
Says the guy who's never been to the track.
Bravo. You win the internet today for baseless assumptions and infantile attempts to start juvenile pissing matches.
How can you tell how much fun he's having?
Fair point. If he's enjoying himself, more power to him.
Matt is very smooth. Smooth = fast. Watch Lewis Hamilton, for another example. He barely perceptably moves the wheel in his Formula 1 car.
The Tesla is fun but buy a Ferrari!!!