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Theists vs. Atheists!! Call Matt Dillahunty & Aaron Adair | Sunday Show 07.14.24
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- Опубліковано 13 лип 2024
- 07.14.24 Our #: +1-720-619-2288 or online thru www.callinstud...
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Really wishing all the best for everyone! Have a great week
Thanks Faia. Best wishes for you as well.
As always, I thank you for your service to us.
This was a long one but once again, ever so thankful for this.
That was fast. You're awesome!
Thank you Faia 🎉
Marcus: "Look I'm nervous, so if there is a problem with my argument it is because of that.". No, Marcus, that's not it. The problem is you have no argument, nervous or otherwise.
Marcus, thirty seconds after yelling: "Why are your emotions so involved?!"
THANK YOU!!! For explaining Information is not instructions. EVERYTHING is information. It gets used all the time as if information is blue prints and instructions. Scientists say information and theists equivocate it as instruction and NO ONE EVER explains th difference
Well, it's all in the definitions. Some would say what you mean by information is called "data". Everything is "data", and information is that which you "distill" by processing, organizing, interpreting that data. Still not instruction (which would imply an instructor), but yeah.
As soon as any theist brings up quantum mechanics in relation to theism, my immediate first assumption is that they probably don't actually understand quantum mechanics. They probably read some pop-sci stuff about it and then ran with it without really understanding it (And I know because I was once that person)
Marcus thinks quantum physics is magic and that appeals to his childlike nature and his wish for magic to be real. Give him the smallest smidgen of evidence, the more improbable the better, for faeries and unicorns and he'll be down with those mythos as well
I didn't believe him when he said atheism was his beliefsystem within 10sec.
@@marcosolo6491I was about to make the same observation. Marcus misunderstands the hypothesis, that there *may* be a QM explanation or observation of what gives rise to consciousness, it doesn't mean that consciousness is needed for QM or it gives rise to QM. Without realizing, Marcus actually strengthens the concept that consciousness arises from the "materialistic" world.
I can see how Schrodinger's Cat theorem would confuse people like Marcus. They take the simile literally and jump to the assumption that the "observer" must be conscious, and not just an "event" that triggers the final state.
Marcus lol you made yourself look not only silly but extremely dishonest. Firstly, you confidently reject life coming from non-life because you say it’s never been proven in a lab, but you don’t exclude life coming from a thinking agent outside of space and time, even though you yourself agree that has also never been proven. That is absolutely ridiculous and extremely bad reasoning. Next thing you said that was very telling of your current position. When this was all laid out to you, you resorted to getting defensive and accusing Matt (saying why is he being emotions into it) of doing the thing you yourself were doing, because you KNEW full well your whole argument had been destroyed, and instead of conceding, you just play ignorant. That shows you are not interested in really knowing whether or not what you believe is true. I’m guessing you get something else from your beliefs, like comfort or community.
I don’t think he came across as a fool at all, or dishonest. He did reject life coming from non-life, on very reasonable grounds - we have never been able to identify such an occurrence. His conclusion here is not in any way thwarted by the fact that a supernatural being that is not part of the universe, can play outside of the physical laws which were placed into existence by someone who must have always existed.
Marcus is such a perfect example of the person who claims to have been an atheist but when attempting to present why the became theist, they just present a big ole argument from incredulity about something they clearly have no f-ing clue about
When they skip church for a year, they think they were atheists lol
You can be atheist for lousy reasons. To most of these people, an emotional doubt of God's existence is atheism.
But since they have no skeptical skills, they fall right back into theism after the first emotional experience. Or question on the level of "well what else could it be".
It’s always totally unsurprising when a caller like Marcus turns rude and obnoxious as soon as it’s clear their woefully poor arguments are being easily demolished, because they somehow think talking over the hosts is going to turn things round for them.
@@JayMaverick we are all atheists before religion. Saying i was an atheist and now i believe for bad reasons is a non sentence. Nobody is born with religious belief.
I am so glad that Aaron was on the show to tackle this quantum woo.
I can't help but laugh when a caller, especially a theist, gushes about how much they respect and admire Matt, claiming they've been a fan for ages, blah blah blah. And then, like clockwork, they proceed to do every single thing that drives him up the wall, only to act all shocked when he responds exactly as you'd expect.
🤦🏾♂️ Marcus, buddy, you were clearly not prepared, and it stung when Matt showed you the error of your ways live and in color.
But don't worry-he'll call back. They always do.
My theory: They do it on purpose. They are actually trolls that are trying to make Matt lose his temper. I fully think Markus was a Troll
@@Ale_V72 I know that the trolls start off respectful and then the mask slowly starts to reveal their true intentions, but I don't think Marcus was a troll. They usually say some snarky comment right before they're dropped/banned. I genuinely think that his feelings could not take the embarrassment any longer so he decided to bail. Every logical trap or clarifying question that Matt asked exposed his flawed reasoning and he got upset because he wasn't allowed to backtrack it immediately which is when he started interrupting.
Seriously! It's been like this for a while and even more recently with the trolls. "Oh Matt! I've been watching you for a long time! Big fan of the show and what you've been doing." Then they'll proceed to do every trick in the book to piss Matt off and show that they haven't actually learned a thing from all those years of supposedly watching him.
Yeah, I been watching for years and I noticed exactly this
Gushing then butthurt when their toys are not being played with.
And the same old mistake, fallacies illogical reasoning time and time.
They don't want to learn. They want to cling.
Hence the same old dance time and time again
It's a sales trick from the Christian playbook. They try to disarm you with politeness so you'll be more accepting of their bs.
Doubt they even realize they do it, it's a deeply ingrained behaviour.
I've been watching Matt since like 2005, when I found AXP through prank call compilations on youtube when I was in fifth grade. His ability to tear apart ignoramuses was very amusing to me then, and it still is, but I also really appreciate how gently he can explain things to people who are coming in good faith to learn. I disagree with him on stuff all the time, but I never question his genuineity.
Marcus demolished his own argument and then took his ball home 😂😂
Well, Aaron, the answer to the question "What does that creature taste like?" it's almost always Chicken!!
How is UA-cam censorship and comment moderation so extremely high but they will allow people to make videos showing how to use grenades to fashion booby-traps and how to build deadly weapons? The double standard is so ridiculous.
It’s making me conspiratorial
Because UA-cam is a veritably tiny company run by people whose skill tree is a short stick.
And shareholders who only care about short term profit.
American advertiser puritanism.
Typically delusional morals coming from the ethnically bankrupt without reasoning.
It's getting ridiculous. I can rarely post a comment with the word fem*n*st, but pubescent girls can take their clothes off and pretend they're fashion videos
Feminist
Thanks Jimmy for setting the boundaries.
It’s a shame that UA-cam is a threat to The Line for discussing certain topics, but fresh after it happened before the hosts and callers have had much time to honestly think about the pros and cons and the net wellbeing, those conversations probably would’ve been bad anyway. Not to mention that taking one particular position out loud, right or wrong, might constitute a crime, both now and long after.
Haven't seen the whole ep yet, but I respect the intro.
Regarding the Country of the Blind, Noah missed the point of the story. The story was a rebuttal of the idea that “the one eyed man is king in the country if the blind”. What HG Wells was exploring is that if people were blind they’d organize their lives differently to the point that sight might become a disadvantage. The blind nation has become nocturnal and is perfectly adapted and the sighted hero is unable to convince the blind people that sight is superior. It highlights a deeper point that our assumptions about what is superior is very rooted in our apriori assumptions.
As someone who studied information theory, and had a lab across the hall from Shannon's office at MIT, I thank Aaron for giving the best description of how the theist use of information is flawed. Another example along the lines he gave - a set of random characters the same size as the Bible has more Shannon information than the Bible does. Practically speaking, the more you can compress a file when you zip it the less information it contains. The Bible would probably compress better than the random characters.
Shannon?
@Imperial-Socialist Claude Elwood Shannon, colloquially referred as Shannon, is a pretty prominent figure in the field of Information Theory
@@technist5246 that's nice, what's information theory
@@Imperial-Socialist The study of how much information can be put onto a transmission line and the energy required for it. When you zip a file you are using information theory, since the amount of compression depends on redundant information in the message. For instance, if you encode "the" with a single character, you can decrease the length of the message and make it faster to transmit.
The amazing thing is that Shannon seems to have done it all on his first try. My information theory professor said that other work just improved on his proofs.
Shannon also invented digital logic for his Masters Thesis.
Hey Kathy in TX, I hope you see this. Do what the hosts suggest as well as find a group of allies that are willing to put themselves forward as defenders for you and other vendors. If I was in TX I would not hesitate to schedule that time on your behalf to provide security, defense and a little lite intimidation. Good luck to ya
You're awesome
This is Kathy, thank you for your support!
While Marcus was supposedly an atheist, he so desperately wanted to believe in a magic and invisible thing in the sky that all it took for him to become a theist was a fundamental misunderstanding of something he misheard one day!
I am so impressed by the way the channel has dealt with recent events. Well done! Proud of you!
Glad you started the show off this way Jimmy, and I agree I'm disappointed in some of the instant conspiracies that people throw out.
Love that I called Marcus hanging up in embarrassment as soon as he spoke his first sentence 😂
Jimmy, I have a lot of respect for the way you came on at the start and handled this situation.
And people think Matt can't be patient. He showed a lot of restraint with Marcus.
I just want to thank Aaron for the Underwear Gnome reference.
Wow, just finished the episode, and I enjoyed it so much. I learn so much about science from Aaron! And I always personally love it when Matt's in the mood to take the Zen master approach. He should do the shows however he feels like after all these years, but I do think his expertise with having these conversations makes it great when he's acting almost as a moderator, like when he was helping the conversation along with Marcus and Aaron. Anyway, great one!
Matt making me wish more than ever i could get to one 9f his reptile shows.
It is true that when you are skeptic, you will leave out believing things that are true.
Kudos, Jimmy on your position regarding the event. We are either skeptical with regards to all claims or we are not skeptical at all.
Frank @2:24:00 reminded me of this quote from Dan Dennett: "If you make yourself really small you can externalize virtually everything" meaning a lot of the people keep shrinking consciousness down to something tiny and illusive not letting it be tied to any particular process in the brain, externalizing everything as "not the conscious observer" when Dennett wanted to argue for consciousness isn't just one tiny magical immaterial kernel but consists of a multitude of bags of tricks over the entire brain and even to some extent the body.
Good intro, Thank You. I actually needed that. I do not condone violence of any kind.
What I think Frank meant is that, for him, what we are is the consciousness. So anything in our consciousness that is the result of other part of the brain or our body working, he wouldn't count as us, but something coming outside us. I guess one way to convince him is that we aren't our whole body, or at least brain, but then it does seems like he also has some solipsistic ideas in the mix (when he told Matt he was assuming there was a physical brain), but instead of "we may just be a brain in the vat" it would be "we may just be a consciousness in the vat".
@@swcou I expressed it poorly, but see my discussion with @rijden-nu above for more context. My basic point is that regardless of whether consciousness is caused by a brain, or exists somehow otherwise and just experiences the impression of being a physical person with a brain, our experiences ultimately come from sources that predate us and/ or are outside of us. We did not choose our DNA, we didn’t choose our brains, we just “have” experiences - thoughts, sensations, and feelings - that create impressions, including the impression that we are freely choosing our actions, but, as I discuss in more detail above, actual free will, ie., self determination, is logically impossible.
To the various callers over the years who I’ve declared are the worst thinkers/debaters, I apologise. Having heard Danny’s call, I’ve come to the realisation that your calls were so bad after all.
Amanuel still exists. I'd put him lower than this stooge.
Marcus was indeed not ready for the conversation.
Respect the hell outta Jimmy
**Matt asks question that defeats theist argument.**
**Theist dodges question.**
**Matt calls out theist.**
Theist: Why are you getting so emotional??
...adding this one to my Line Bingo Card...
Marcus is a liar. He has called other shows before with the same shpiel and same behaviour.
I don't know why it cracked me up so much, but seeing a German-sounding username phonetically spell Spiel made me smile
@@koenigcochran it’s intentional ;)
Yeah, I don't believe Marcus was an atheist. Him saying that his realization "shook his atheism" and equates atheism to a belief system indicates to me that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Good on you Jimmy! 100% agreed.
unknown does not = unknowable. This idea helped my skepticism improve greatly.
I find that the majority of people have severe issues understanding their own ignorance and incredulity.
Yes, and there are different "degrees" of unknowability as well. The number of grains of sand on earth at a given moment practically unknowable, but principally knowable. But the last digit of the number Pi is fundamentally unknowable in principle.
@@rijden-nu yeah, I was a little confused by the discussion of what is knowable. I kept wondering what Matt makes of Gödel's incompleteness theorem
Marcus: "I disqualified Life coming from non-life based on this criteria"
Matt: "that exact same criteria also disqualifies God"
Marcus: *has a complete meltdown, starts insulting Matt, starts pretending not to know how conversation works, refuses to listen, refuses to engage and then runs away*
Marcus you aren't even an armchair scientist, you haven't got the basics down, you haven't got the basics of science down, you haven't got the basics of logic down, you haven't got the basics of reason down, you haven't got the basics of argumentation down, it was pointed out multiple times that you are not ready for this, you are not ready for this. The baffling thing here is that you will walk away thinking you are right. You are not. You are demonstrably fallacious at every turn.
I swear Bill said “Pascal’s rager” and now I really wanna know what that party was like.
There used to be an ask an atheist call in show were they had a Pascal's wager response prerecorded and when a caller mentioned it they'd play the recording and let it run in the back ground on low volume.
Big thanks for that opening! The world needs so desperately needs a return to civility and decency.
That first call was so good! Also, I love The Phantom Tollbooth. I still have a copy from when I was a kid.
I'm laying here listening with my eyes closed and realizing Aaron sounds a lot like Adam Savage.
I know someone who once told me that without a god he would go around killing people whenever he felt like doing so. He also told me that he thought that he would be doing no wrong. He's one of my brothers, and I no longer associate with him.
A does sight exists test: The good old question of how many figures am I holding up? You can do it on different occasions in different locations. You can have multiple people involved and make the tell me what’s going on far more difficult. Like whose fingers, which fingers specifically and what direction is the hand being held at. Just to insure it isn’t a 1 of of 11 chance.
But even with one hand 1/6 chance, there should be a point at which you say “he is either very lucky, this is a miracle or he might be right about sight existing.
In G.I. Jane, Vigo Mortensen character says something like “a bird can freeze to death on a tree branch, without ever feeling sorry for himself “.
That’s my definition of consciousness, if you can be aware that you’re going to die and feel sorry for yourself. All the rest is evolution driven instinct.
@@Nivola1953 he never asked the bird about its feelings and that’s why it did what it did
D.H Lawrence poem Self Pity
I never saw a wild thing
sorry for itself.
A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough
without ever having felt sorry for itself.
1:18:18
I have yet to hear a theist explain their belief in a god that isn't a fallacy or their feelings.
In this case, the argument from incredulity.
I studied Quantum Mechanics, therefore God. I love it. What do you mean by "studied"? Did you go to school and earn a degree or did you read popular books? Great response by Aaron!
Maybe he would have a tiny point if all experts in the quantum field were Christians but he's disagreeing with the experts conclusions with no reason
“Then the Dude abides.” Best quote of the entire episode!
Marcus "I studied quantum physics and couldnt rap my head around it" therefore god.
Marcus will definitely call back to get schooled
What do you think his excuse for hanging up will be (if asked) ?
A) My battery died
B) I went through a tunnel and the call dropped
C) I had somewhere to be and lost track of time
D) He dodges the question completely
@@Mr_Porter E) Next call he opens with, Hi I'm a first time caller
F) Quantum something-something, did something to make the phone drop, because reasons and god.
@@Heathen.Deity. 🤣😂
Marcus made great points. We find that life comes from life. Why should we believe that it doesn’t unless we have examples of such. Marcus said that the particles which everything is made up of, are fields and information, that is so complicated it would not have came about by itself. That is a valid point and is actually answered in the bible, which says that God spoke everything into existence.
I feel like that when I go to the store for candy.. a whole aisle for them, I look at them for 5 minutes and 7/10 times I leave without candy.. 😂
A thought: technically, all life comes from non-life. Atoms are not alive by our definition yet when there are a sufficient number of them in a certain configuration the result is life, by our definition.
Interesting analysis! I believe that (in the natural) the end product of life is only brought about from the end product of another life. Of course this would not need to apply outside of the natural laws. So for example, God being life did not need to come from another life, because he is outside the natural, and logic says that he must have always existed.
2:09:27 LMAO
I love Aaron's sense of humor
General Relativity leads directly to the famous equation, E=mcsquared. This would explain how the sun gets its energy so you would have an answer to the people of 200 years ago that they didn't know. Of course, you'd have no way to prove that either. (They would have just started on atomic theory but not enough to understand what sub-atomic particles were and how hydrogen could become helium.)
I can't believe what happened yesterday at 6:00 P.M. EST!!! ................
My issue of Outsiders #9 got a small crease on it... [Gotcha] :) 🤗
We don't condone any violence here on the Line!
Marcur quantum mechanics works it has predictive utility .....just like determinism it always works ....it's not sometimes it doesn't work sometimes it works ....just because the model has brobability predictions doesn't mean the world is build up on nondeterminism
Incorporate routine critical thinking so when you graduate high school you are fully capable and aware.
@Marcus Quantum Mechanics is really hard. Therefore god.
Scientists need to stop labelling phenomena in ways that theists jump all over. "God particle" "Observer effect". Stop it guys.
You realize that the colloquial coined terms that they use on laymen are generally not the actual terms used by the scientific community. For instance, the Big Bang was a derogatory term.
I start to believe when people say they are "ex atheists", what they really mean is "I did not go to church and I never thought about this god thing at all"
Frank might have been trying to express that he is deconstructing the assumption of “I” as an identity. In some ways, what we call “I” can be restated as an illusion of continuous “input” combined with memory.
1000% agree with Jimmy! I am just sorry you had to state the obvious that conspiracy theories and wishing ill will to others is harmful to our community and country. Good job Jimmy!!
I’m so tired of the philosophy bro circlejerk callers. None of them ever get anywhere close to demonstrating that any god exists.
I mean, what else can they do? They believe in something that isn’t real; eventually, all arguments for false things fall apart.
I think what the caller .. on skepticism, was talking about exploring the possibilities and that is ok .. as long as you don’t fool yourself that’s its true…
Danny: "Is there something that never had a beginning?" I suspect that for you personally you could well say, a coherent sentence or rational thought.
Two drunk callers today
I think Terrence Howard could benefit greatly from a viewing of “Donald in Math Magic Land“.
You should listen to his protests. Debunking that would likely be the easiest (and more interesting) thing to do instead of arguing over "procedure".
Thank you Jimmy for not making this about that event. While everyone has opinions and feelings on this it has flooded everyone's feeds and it's exhausting honestly. I almost didn't tune in today because I was afraid I'd be hit with just more and more about that event. And I just can't right now for a variety of reasons.
41:00. I've been a Design teacher for nearly 30 years. This is something I have been trying to do for most of that time. One thing I do is I almost always answer a students question with a question. I say "I don't know" very often and take great delight in discovering stuff with and from the the kids. finally I'm not slow to show my enjoyment of the stuff I teach (though this has taken a battering of late :))
Every time a theists says " quantum physics " I sigh
I'm watching this at 2:30AM, so this show will be after dark for me and after dark will be morning for me.
I usually watch them all early Monday morning when I wake and bake
As soon as anyone says anything about physics, or mechanics, or quantum anything and that they 'studied' physics, I would ask them how they 'studied'. Did they take some courses or read some books or talk to some working physists? Or something else?
The blind story has an interesting premise, but just the fact you can guide a blind person trough a maze/obstacle course you have never seen before should prove you have a weird sense others don't have.
Or at least make people think it warrants further testing.
Well said Jimmy. I couldn’t agree more on your sentiments.
Jimmy ❤👍
I would suggest The War Of The Worlds is HG Wells most famous book
Anticipating the pro life response to 'To those not willing to live and let live'
Anyone else care to call bullsh*t that Marcus - OR ever studied physics, quantum or otherwise, in any meaningful way?
Marcus. I've spent years studying physics and (nebulous) science. Spend a few more and then ask a freshman physics student to fix all the idiocy you deemed from watching Joe Rogan podcasts and AIG videos. Danny has to be a prank. Either that or he is the head-wound version of Matt Powell. There; I think I followed Jimmy's rules.
Completely agree with Jimmy’s PSA!!! 👍👍
Studied quantum physics but has no idea the meaning of the word characteristics. That tracks.
I think he was trying to address Matt and Aaron on a level that would make sense to them. He wasn’t calling about the characteristics of God, so you can understand him not particularly bothering to side track by answering his question on that.
"Let's start at the beginning. That's a very good place to start..." How do I know this phrase?
For the questions on "life only comes from life".. not true, amino acids come from compounds of elements that create biological systems. We've made simple and some short lasting synthetic peptides too!
For the "consciousness gives to consciousness" thing.. well first no ones even measuring "consciousness" and second.. can please recite your 16th day after birth ways like? Maybe you cant remember that one.. how about the 100th? 150th?
Consciousness is complex and we dip in and out of it (most of us) every night. This is just an assumption that a god must exist cuz you impose god made life. Theres no reason or arguement.
Seems to come down often to the scientific findings don't satisfy some people's desire to have an understanding of things
Marcus - I left athiesm because i looking into a subject that I don't understand and disagree with the experts in that field
I’m so tired of laymen calling in to talk about quantum physics. Your “intuition” and reading of some Wikipedia pages doesn’t make you an expert. You are not equipped to discuss complex scientific concepts.
I think he understood enough to draw his conclusions. You don’t in the natural get life from non-life, and hence there must of been a life outside of the natural that always existed by which all other lives followed. Also physical particles as the caller was saying are so complicated, they would have not formed by themselves. That also makes sense. Sometimes you can know enough to draw correct conclusions, even if you don’t know everything.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say Marcus doesn't understand a single thing about quantum mechanics
2:22:30 Is Frank trying to say that our consciousness is a response system, and, even if internal processes exist, one would ultimately only be aware of various outputs of said processes.
In other words; an observer/conscious being is like a passenger in the meat suit, not a driver - whether physical or made of "spirit goo".
Jimmy 👍
When are we going to have Terrence Howard on here to get destroyed?
Is this show now Atheists calling Atheists now?
It's not Bob Cat, they go by Robert Cat.
+1 Respect for the intro Jimmy.
Baseless assertions for the purpose of de-legitimizing the opposition and propping up your narrative... Not even once... Not even to prove a point... Not even to support the moral side...
"If you hate something, don't you do it too.”
- Eddie Vedder "Not for You"
I'm glad the video wasn't demonetized. I think Jimmy's doing the right thing. Way too much misinformation being spread around, so it's best to not entertain scenarios which could further spread that.
The 1932 elections in Germany were also free and fair. That worked out pretty well...
Free? I mean inside the context of that time and the laws around voting. Sure.
Fair? Hell nah, this was during the forced reduction in federal control, favourtism is literally the only answer they gave to allow chancellor to continue holding power, they withheld voting as soon as the registered noble/elite could physically shut down the courts.. New courts were created on like.. week 2? Internal snap elections were created and ended until opposition literally could not physical be in two places at once.. and theres A LOT about the actual official affaires that we related to who and how the nazis got total power. Most germans didnt like them, but they agreed with the violence and racism/bigotry, after that it was literally do or die for most of the population. Some where happy to, most had to be pushed and progandized to