@@Whiskey.T.Foxtrot God created, and then created people to live in the Creation. He also connected Himself to the planet so that no evil could dwell here. But Adam cut the connection and brought sin into the world.
@@RadarLakeKosh They have entire fields of research into all the implications, they know but don't care or they like those parts. What a horrible belief system they have.
I disagree, I think he showed with a knife. He just spent so long swinging wildly without hitting anything that he decided to stab himself so that he could say at least he got in one hit. And it was a pretty brutal blow.
It's INSANE!!! "...you assume portray that little girl as someone who is innocent..." THIS IS A CHIIIIIILD we're talking about! No one deserves to be raped and it is disgusting that he would even suggest that a CHILD would be DESERVING of such a horrible, traumatizing act. I truly hope they do not hold anything similar to that belief, or take a serious look into their current beliefs, because it's genuinely horrifying to think that man has the right to vote.
I don't know how you can lead with a morally provoking question like "does child rape make you angry?" to imply it's a morally wrong situation... ...and follow up with a critique that "you're assuming she's innocent" as if to imply that she is evil and God is punishing her with rape. The caller doesn't have a moral compass, they have an immoral compass and it's working perfectly fine. This is the type of guy you see in the news saying "she was asking for it." Sick bastard.
I often see it argued that we don’t need religion to give us morality. The Penn Jillette’s famous line, “I SA all the people that I want” (paraphrased and adjusted for YT), and I normally live by that. But this guy? Damn. We’d better hope this guy doesn’t figure out that hell isn’t real and his god won’t punish him, because that just might be all that is holding him back.
@@realhuman8305I just listened to this exchange and my jaw is still on the floor. Literally I just sat there with my mouth open in disbelief. Only religion can get regular people to say this level of crazy
My atheist father never talked about morality or gods. He was instinctually kind, compassionate, generous, and helpful to strangers. My religious mother who placed moral admonitions on everything from what I ate to what I wore, had none of that instinctual compassion or urge to be of use to others. Yet she paid her tithings every week to the church. I can’t say how morality was installed in each of them. But it was clear to me that one parent’s morality was based on a long & strict, but arbitrary, set of rules, while the other’s was about simply looking for situations in which he could help. Perhaps he only helped people to uplift his own ego. But in the end, one was clearly acting more like Jesus. The Xian belief that God gives morality, and that following God’s rules makes one a more moral person, these argument are lost on me.
The problem with believing in objective morality is that your views on morality will crash with those of others, and you'll be ill-prepared because you're under the impression that yours is correct while everyone else "veered off the right way".
@@AXKfUN9mTrue. And the problem with being taught to follow "objective morality", Is that YOU never have to do the work of finding out what morals actually means, and WHY. So you have NO developed framework, & experience using it, with which to compare your own, or reason, what is good morally, or bad, Just like being told "cos I said so", teaches nothing about WHAT morality means, & WHY. 😁🌏☮️
A god's subjective opinions on morality is still subjective. Theists also keep mixing up individual morality with group ethics. External dictates on how you need to act in order to avoid punishment is not morality, it's almost the complete opposite.
I don't know many people that believe in god's, I think the Hindus do but Hindus also believe in God. The belief in God has been proven to be An instinctive thought and or logical conclusion. Whereass the belief in a god just like the belief the origins of Life came into instinctive without God hasn't been proven to be an instinctive thought or logical conclusion. I find it interesting that the atheist humanist will always argue everything is cultural but of course with the exceptions of homosexuality and transgenderism.. transgenderism definitely has evidence of being cultural. The deep sea sponge of the Arctic has no brain has no tissue has no organs has no nervous system but yet the deep sea sponge of the Arctic is a predator which means it's conscience. Where does this consciousness come from?
@@WhoAteJoeysUncle It's okay, I get it. You are a brain-less piece of toast. Of course, gender is cultural! That is what we are saying the WHOLE time! How can one person, YOU, be this brainrotten?😂 You are arguing against positions, we don't even have🤣 Holy cow!😂
Being good for rewards and to avoid punishment is the most rudimentary kind of behavior, often seen in young children. The Christin world view is an extreme example. Like you, I’d argue that this isn’t morality, it’s basically selfishness.
Nah. Laws of physics aren’t considered subjective, because the universe is beholden to them, not because its Creator is. We also know that laws of logic exist (you can’t do science without them) but they aren’t empirically testable in the way laws of physics are. Christians simply believe that there are also immutable laws of morality given to us, which isn’t that much of a leap considering there are underlying laws of physics and logic. Atheists just keep making category errors assuming that God must be bound by yhe same rules we are (for example, whining about how God “kills people” as if life isn’t temporary by nature, meaning God “kills” everyone, even if it’s from old age.) Objective morality is how Christians can say, definitively, that murdering children is wrong, when for atheists that’s just an opinion. It’s also the reason why there can be hope for, say, a kid dying of cancer, whereas the best comfort an atheist can give is “Too bad, some of us get to live a long life and some don’t. But remember, you’re made of stardust.”
@@AbsentMinded619are you actually that deluded and simple minded? Did you actually think that was some kind of gotcha that made the slightest bit of sense?
Are you moral in any way at all? well then, where did morality come from, except from God? You certainly didn't originate it. God can't be both moral and immoral, since He would disagree with Himself. So, by your own mouth you have evaluated that God is moral.
Did he seriously say that the child wasn’t innocent and therefore deserved to be SAed? What kind of monster thinks anything justifies SA of a *child* ?!
This call got Atheist Experience in the Austin newspaper. Absolute fire. Two of some of the greatest hosts no longer with ACA because well... ACA has some work to do.
I'm in total shock. He seemed to be trying to understand the arguments and come to grips with some of the more subtle aspects of morality, and then at 45:15 he just comes out with one of the most evil utterances I've ever heard. His view of Christian morality must be totally corrupted.
Because he isn't trying to understand. He knows the answer he wants to get to, and he thinks he's smart enough to play word games to get there, but much like his ability to assess morality, his ability to assess his own intelligence is also broken. The end is him having a frustrated tantrum and saying the quiet part out loud.
See here's the thing though, Marty His view of Christian morality seems to be on point. There is no real condemnation of child rape in the Bible, and quite a few instances of moral justification of taking children as your wife.
Or more accurately in accordance with Christianity. All the death and suffering caused by Christians in the name of their god and bible indicates its not corrupt but in line.
@@WhoAteJoeysUncle Can you transphobes stop making everything about trans people FOR 1 NANOSECOND- Like fucking hell, they say trans people are the ones making everything about gender and stuff, and yet trans people are just trying to live their lives in peace while the transphobes stalk them, make literally EVERYTHING about trans people, invade their privacy, are obsessed with what's in people's pants, and even break laws to be hateful to them cuz they fear that which they don't know and don't TRY to learn about it. If our ancestors were brave enough to learn more about fire, you can be brave enough to research about the different parts of the LGBTQIA+. C'mon, it ain't gonna bite you.
@eagonewild It could be worse. Imagine if they based their whole life and personality on hating something they say they don’t believe in, and even made whole UA-cam channels just to rage against it…oh wait
I guess he proved his point that his moral compas is evil and twisted and corrupted, when he finshed off with abused children probably have it comin'. That is truly dementedly screwed up.
This guy has no idea how to form a valid argument... Any time he's challenged in the slightest on anything he says, he immediately jumps to the extreme.
Seeing an old clip of a tired, familiar argument is a harsh reminder that Christianity has lasted this long mostly by hearing reasonably complaints and answering "Nuh-uh!".
Shane ~ I'm using my morality to say that the god that I believe in is moral, however I believe that my morality and that of all humanity is trash and should not be trusted.
Exactly! If humans, independent of God have no basis for morality, then we have no basis to conclude God and his morality are good. Either there are good reason for what we deem right/wrong or there aren't. If there are reasons, then those reasons are why something is right/wrong. If there are no reasons, then why is something right or wrong?
"If someone said that it's best for them to drink Clorox every day, I can show them that's not right.:" 2020 says: Several million people in red hats disagree.
@@DerpBanewhy not? It happened.. I mean, I'm not sure millions of trumpettes were so stupid as to actually *follow* the words of the defendant. But he definitely said it, and people definitely did it.
I am better than god and I think everyone would agree: If I was god there would be no suffering, everyone would be living in a paradise, everyone would be immortal and no one would need to worship me. The fact I can say that and mean it offers proof I am better than anyone who could do the same and doesn't. Anyone care to argue?
I prefer the prospect of a moral mortality (giving me the right to end my life under the consent of my social environment) to a boring immortality (in which I can't stop living).
@@reefhog No, immortality is a useless concept except for theists. Immorality's greatest failing is that, when your memory capacity runs out it starts deleting your oldest memories until you can't remember anything, yourself, your relatives......... Who would want that. And yesI've thought about it form more then 5 seconds. Did you spend 5 seconds realising that wasn't my topic?
@@Lightbearer616 Another barely literate dribbler. You don’t know what an ellipsis is, or where to use one, and you don’t know the difference between “then” and “than”. Immortality is a ridiculous concept, not useful to anyone. You couldn’t even address my question. Your comment is pointless drivel.
The book by god blesses slavery and genocide. Also misogyny, homophobia, infanticide and mass abortion. Even today murder of trans people is epidemic, caused by gods and belief in them.
You're not moral, and yet you conceive of immorality. You must be created from God, yet you refuse to believe in the only source of righteousness - the Lord.
note from a mathematician: Shane's claim somewhere around 19:00 was that "the fact that you are moral implies there is god". Implication is a mathematical construct, and we know objectively that an implication is equivalent to its contrapositive. And what is that? Negate both sides and invert the direction of the implication. If A implies B, then NotB implies NotA. If the existence of morality implies god, then the absence of god implies the absence of morality. These are objectively the same statement logically speaking. I don't think Shane realized that, but it's true regardless: he's making the same claim as every other christian caller on morality.
For a social animal, "moral" behaviour is reinforced by feedback from other members of their social group. The dog learns to not sit on the sofa because it maximises the positive feedback, and reduces the negative feedback from the people they see as their pack members.
… mostly, because being all-knowing and all-powerful you would have guided your Divine Plan to keep on track, instead of setting it up to fail, knowing it must fail … Never mind that, being a bright fellow, you would have found a million better ways to start over without murdering everyone and watching them all drown (omnipresence is extremely useful to not miss anything) even if you just learned about what had happened. I still think the Abrahamic God enjoys human suffering way too much, which is why he’s not going to stop a child being r’ed - despite being all-powerful, he watches with a massive boner and then uses the incident to torture the offenders (including the child, of course) into hell. I am not even sure that that God has a heaven or that it is any different from hell. Why not have all humans be actors in the reality TV show “Torture Tournament”, where those who do not torture others enough get tortured for ‘correction’.
When ive had a few drinks I'm a lot more fun to be around. I'm more myself. I find it so much more easier to socialise with strangers. Benefits galore. Just have to control how much I drink because I want to remain healthy and also not fall asleep at social events.
Morality is just a loose, general system or code of behavior imparted upon the subject by many many things including the evolution of compassion and empathy, and the people, parents, teachers, experiences, and media that you have been subjected to. Must like almost everything else in life, it's not some simple black and white answer, it's messy
it's the difference between having a rule that for every single conceivable situation (y'know, like whether you should wear blended fabrics) and having a set of principles that can be applied anywhere
If humans are social animals, have we not determined rules by which to live that make living in large groups easier? Do we not call those rules…morals?? I think it’s natural to our human evolution. 😊😊😊🍸😊
That doesn't even address *the* most ironic part here tbh. (Not to mention them flipping on a dime from "kids are innocent" to "kids deserve it".) It's that: Not only does god *watch* it happen. He *rewards* it afterwards. Because, in the bible: That is a *completely moral* thing to do. (As long as you own the kid) They *always* list things as a gatcha, when their god not only condones that action, but endorses it.
So, as far as morality goes, the very fact that it is constantly disputed, with people arguing over the best policy based on different values and priorities even when all the facts of the case are pretty much agreed upon- this tells me if there is any 'objectively true' morality, whatever that means, humans don't have any clear means of knowing what it is.
I would argue, this is a very good thing, because new knowledge or technology can shift those. Is it moral to amputate an arm that is so infectios, it would kill the patient? I say yes. Is it still moral to amputate the same arm, if there is an antibiotic, that is readily avalible, and would cure the infection? I say no, not any longer is it moral.
10 commandments. It’s called the moral law. We broke it and Jesus paid the fine. That’s what the Bible teaches. Why don’t you take the time to look at them and examine yourself thru the lens of those commands?
@kalebetheridge5905 , you talk as though I've never read the Bible before. I've read rather too much of it to think that it's a reliable indicator of what is moral.
I am trying to enjoy this video, and i have seen 7 different videos on various subjects tonight. BUT MAN, Google/UA-cam has tonight , put an average of 5 [yes 5! ] commercial break on each video I have seen that is over 40 minutes. Its RIDICULOUS.
Why or how would God be moral if it's all that's actually exists? Who would it have to develop morals for? It's just an argument pulled out of the anus fallacy.
God resurrects everyone soon. You can explain it to 20-30 Billion people. God does not even kill Satan. You have an immortal soul. He gives all the dead another chance. To be HUMAN. if they are twisted. They take a MARK endorsing eternal evil. No one will say to God that was unfair? as we see justice done to perfection. You have not thought it through to its conclusion.
@@paultimson6674 if i unalive you and then resurect you...ia that not torturous? Would you be ok with someone axing a whole family and then saying "no worries i fixed them" Youre still going to not want that person ANYWHERE near you
@@Furry-ousNews This is about IMMORTAL souls. you say RIP . I say wrong. God resurrects everyone. To choose. You want to deny them the right to choose? God as your father. Or Satan. Life on earth is not the point of existence. Whether you fulfill a bucket list of wishes. Is not the point. Whether you are happy or miserable is not the point. You are here to find JESUS. that is the point. If you accept JEsus you pass a critical test. All through your life you are judged by people. and then finally GOD judges you. You say that is unfair? but you take a driving test? you go to college? you take tests all the time. if i paint a painting , the test is selling it. I don't want your opinion.. what a lovely horse? what a beautiful scene? as you can talk shit. having 100 people view one of my paintings and NO SALES , tells me its not wanted. so if someone commits to buying my paintings. THEY LIKE IT. and God is asking People to COMMIT to a choice. You can swan about earth saying lovely vista, what a view. Then claim it was created by CHANCE? that is an insult to the creator. You are insulting. This is one test. Not 5. God resurrects you only till you choose a side. Heaven or Hell. once you choose its over. if you take a MARK, you choose Satan as your father. its a simple vote. If you prefer PAIN for all eternity. Take the mark.
There are lots of restrictions on Free Speech, liable just one of many. The only completely unrestricted Freedom is the Freedom of Thought. You can think whatever you want.
He just tried to paint a target around the arrow.... And incl. Stuff like atheism is just showing his bias, and dishonesty,as atheism is Only a position on a claim, nothing else. Imho morality comes from the evolutionary process, where social/group animals are stronger when united. When a single person doesn't behave, the group suffers, thus less chance for survival etc. This caller really didn't approach this objectively, at all.
I am not sure there is an innate sense of fairness. It is conditioned, even in animals. Take any child/offspring of any mammal, for example. In animals that have "litters" each pup/kitten/etc. fights for position and will push others out of the way to get fed. The "fairness" is dictated by the mother/parent/elder members. Human children and other apes go through phases very early of "everything is mine." Young toddlers will take another's toys straight from their hands. C0rrective behaviors by others inculcate a sense of fairness into most offspring... sadly, not all.
Nope, the fact that the pups only push each other instead of killing each other just to have a position indicates they have a sense of limits and fairness. While is true that is external data what shapes that brute sense of fairness, there cannot be conditioning when there is nothing to condition. For example, human children go througt that "everyting is mine" until someone else (usually other child) uses that "everything is mine" and then learn there are limits to "everything is mine". There is no need to expect and advanced sense of fairness and limits from children and puppies.
@@Julian0101 I disagree. They do not "kill" each other as they just need enough force to push out of the way. "Fairness" is "you get yours, I get mine." Even in pups and others, it is "I get mine and whether you get yours is of no consequence." Just because they do not kill is not a sense of "fairness." It is more an inability at that stage to kill, as well as it is not necessary to kill, merely move out of the way. Which could be argued as a different morality standard, as well.
@@ModelTrainOutsider Correct, the fact they do not kill each other means they have a "i get mine, but there are limits to what i can do to get it". And that doesnt last long until puppies find that others puppies that do the same to them, and so their model change to "i get mine, and you get yours so lets not harm each other". You can see that virtually all social species. Also, puppies and children are really delicated at that stage, so anything can kill them, including each other (unless you are talking newly born, but no one expects newly born to have a concept of self to understand fairness), so they limiting to moving each other out of the way is a clear indication that they understand there is a limit.
(Horrible) experiments have been made with animals. 2 rats gets treats they really like., When one rat gets a big treat and eats it, the other rat gets a short hit of electricity. Once the reats figured this out, the one getting the bigger treat stopped eating it.. saving the other rat from the electrical current. There was negative gain for the rat that stopped eating treats, no treat. Ther e was only positive gain for the other rat that wasnt electrocuted. monkeys were given grapes, at first they got the same size and an amount, then one got big ones, and the other got small ones.. the one who got big gtapes shared with the other monkey ( and they were upset with the handler). Animals get fairness, its innate. Newborn pups fighting for food to survive is not a fair situation. Adult dogs have often been observed sharing with packmembers.. not because they were told to or taught to, but they wanted to. Hyena pups DO kill eachother.
@@Julian0101 I think, at the stage, they do not understand limits. While many things for survival are innate (chicks running from casted bird silhouettes immediately from the egg), the concept of restraint, I do not believe is there. A pup, as our discussion centers on, is either strong enough to push someone else out of the way or is not and waits or is denied altogether. It is not that they know there is a limit, it is they do as much as it takes as they can. Yet, even in your example, it is still not a sense of "fairness," but, as mentioned, a mode of not needing to kill, merely bully enough. The stronger pup, or lion cub is not concerned with being fair, but merely making sure THEY get THEIRS and the others who can be bullied are of no consequence, even if it means the runt dies. Even feeding mothers will not necessarily look out for the runt... much as a lioness will not overtly object to the new male lion, who has just taken over the pride, killing off the youngest cubs, which prompts the females to go into heat. Survival of the fittest/strongest is, inherently, not "fair."
The caller is incredibly narrow-minded. His ideas about morality are really questionable. His last comment shows how immoral his worldview is just to justify his limited beliefs.
Lets cut the shit caller-if you had proof of a god you wouldn't need to dance around with elaborate scenarios to try and make it something to seriously consider!
At the end the caller confuses the ability to sort out moral issues with whether someone has done bad things. Those are different. To say I've done bad things means i DO have moral judgement that I trust or I wouldn't be thinking I had done bad things. It is the very idea that we sometimes do things we deem bad that proves we have moral judgement and that we trust it.
I wonder if Shane woke up one day and was like, wow, I'm suddenly having these words forming into sentences in my brain, and this has never happened to me before, and I'll write it down and assume it has some value other than toilet paper
That’s the thing with honest theist callers: even the best of them can put up an appearance of rationality and intellectual honesty-and it doesn’t even have to be a deliberate deception, they could genuinely be trying to be an honest interlocutor-but at a certain point they will resort to saying something completely petulant and ugly that exposes the true rot of their ideology when followed through honestly. It’s fundamental impossible not to when said ideology has tenets such as “even if I have doubts, ignoring them and following a god’s commands is objective morality because my moral compass cannot be trusted at all” and “I have used my flawed moral compass to determine that god is a moral figure worth following”. The only comebacks to objections on those two tenets are ugly and petulant comebacks, because there is no fundamental way around the gaping abscess of a logical contradiction and doublethink involved in those premises.
My moral compass is not flawed just because my mind is not perfect, and I don't have complete understanding of every issue that exists. By your definition, you should never say another word.
And if the bible is the word of God, then it means the bible represents what is moral, which means slavery is moral, as is genocide, stoning children to death for being unruly, and women are inferior to men.
26:08 I’ve had profound experiences of emotional healing under the influence of certain … things. *Things* are not inherently moral or immoral. Not speech or seggs or radios or guns or music.
This call is my absolute favourite. Tracy's ruthless smack down on God's morality is epic and incontrovertible.
She definitely nailed it!
God must be the absolute of morality, otherwise He would never create anything. Why would He create, and then destroy?
@@wprandall2452 I don't understand your point.
@@Whiskey.T.Foxtrot God created, and then created people to live in the Creation. He also connected Himself to the planet so that no evil could dwell here. But Adam cut the connection and brought sin into the world.
@@wprandall2452 There is no credible evidence for god(s). No evidence for a creator.
Your god is so weak that actions of one guy undid it all?
Hearing this person describe their moral compass as "flawed, corrupt, and full of sin" made me feel truly sorry for them.
Nah, that comment about a girl being raped at the end made him lose all benefit of sympathy from me.
@@jayjasespud I suppose. But I think you'll find that *most* Christians haven't thought through the nastier implications of their belief system.
@@RadarLakeKosh twily : says u pinkie. Hail sunbutt lol
I did too till the end
@@RadarLakeKosh They have entire fields of research into all the implications, they know but don't care or they like those parts. What a horrible belief system they have.
This guy didn’t bring a knife to a gun fight. He showed up unarmed
This man showed up to a space race with a broken trampoline and cement shoes.
@enjflor1313 fantastic comment.
And missing a hand.
Well, he has god to back him up...
Oh wait... yeah, still unarmed. You right.
I disagree, I think he showed with a knife. He just spent so long swinging wildly without hitting anything that he decided to stab himself so that he could say at least he got in one hit. And it was a pretty brutal blow.
You’re assuming the little girl was innocent… no one can argue a position of morality after saying that.
Such a morally bankrupt response! I don't get how they throw that kind of thing out in good conscience.
@@thehigherevolutionaryThey don't have a conscience, they have the BuyBell.
@@JDdr86 Buybull... Spell it correctly, please.
That last comment before he was disconnected... Man, how can someone even THINK of that?
That's an easy one... because that's what religion does to the brain
It's INSANE!!! "...you assume portray that little girl as someone who is innocent..." THIS IS A CHIIIIIILD we're talking about! No one deserves to be raped and it is disgusting that he would even suggest that a CHILD would be DESERVING of such a horrible, traumatizing act. I truly hope they do not hold anything similar to that belief, or take a serious look into their current beliefs, because it's genuinely horrifying to think that man has the right to vote.
How can someone think that?
Easily, when that person is a defender of child rape as an action, someone who doesn't see it as immoral.
Ah yes, the infamous clip.
"You portray that little girl as someone who's innocent..."
Fucking barf forever.
"who's innocent"
I don't know how you can lead with a morally provoking question like "does child rape make you angry?" to imply it's a morally wrong situation...
...and follow up with a critique that "you're assuming she's innocent" as if to imply that she is evil and God is punishing her with rape.
The caller doesn't have a moral compass, they have an immoral compass and it's working perfectly fine. This is the type of guy you see in the news saying "she was asking for it." Sick bastard.
I often see it argued that we don’t need religion to give us morality. The Penn Jillette’s famous line, “I SA all the people that I want” (paraphrased and adjusted for YT), and I normally live by that. But this guy? Damn. We’d better hope this guy doesn’t figure out that hell isn’t real and his god won’t punish him, because that just might be all that is holding him back.
@@realhuman8305I just listened to this exchange and my jaw is still on the floor. Literally I just sat there with my mouth open in disbelief. Only religion can get regular people to say this level of crazy
@@thedave1771hide yo kids hide yo wife they graping eveyone😂.
"I believe in micro-evolution, not macro-evolution"
"I believe in leaves on sticks, not in trees"..
"I believe in seconds but not years."
"No matter how many centimeters you have, you will never have a full meter!"
Puddles and seas...
One of the best calls of all time still think about it all these years later
you can walk ten feet, But ten miles is impossible 😅😅
My atheist father never talked about morality or gods. He was instinctually kind, compassionate, generous, and helpful to strangers. My religious mother who placed moral admonitions on everything from what I ate to what I wore, had none of that instinctual compassion or urge to be of use to others. Yet she paid her tithings every week to the church.
I can’t say how morality was installed in each of them. But it was clear to me that one parent’s morality was based on a long & strict, but arbitrary, set of rules, while the other’s was about simply looking for situations in which he could help. Perhaps he only helped people to uplift his own ego. But in the end, one was clearly acting more like Jesus.
The Xian belief that God gives morality, and that following God’s rules makes one a more moral person, these argument are lost on me.
The problem with believing in objective morality is that your views on morality will crash with those of others, and you'll be ill-prepared because you're under the impression that yours is correct while everyone else "veered off the right way".
@@AXKfUN9mTrue. And the problem with being taught to follow "objective morality",
Is that YOU never have to do the work of finding out what morals actually means,
and WHY.
So you have NO developed framework, & experience using it,
with which to compare your own,
or reason,
what is good morally, or bad,
Just like being told "cos I said so",
teaches nothing about WHAT morality means, & WHY.
😁🌏☮️
Your father was being a good person, your mother was acting like jesus.
A perfect example of the damage that book can do to a mind...trouble is there are millions like him..
Fuck I was not ready for that ending 😂
"We must follow THE best moral rules."
*Suggests following THE most evil and immoral rules in existence.*
Exactly. Megatron iz LORD
A god's subjective opinions on morality is still subjective. Theists also keep mixing up individual morality with group ethics. External dictates on how you need to act in order to avoid punishment is not morality, it's almost the complete opposite.
I don't know many people that believe in god's, I think the Hindus do but Hindus also believe in God. The belief in God has been proven to be
An instinctive thought and or logical conclusion. Whereass the belief in a god just like the belief the origins of Life came into instinctive without God hasn't been proven to be an instinctive thought or logical conclusion.
I find it interesting that the atheist humanist will always argue everything is cultural but of course with the exceptions of homosexuality and transgenderism.. transgenderism definitely has evidence of being cultural.
The deep sea sponge of the Arctic has no brain has no tissue has no organs has no nervous system but yet the deep sea sponge of the Arctic is a predator which means it's conscience. Where does this consciousness come from?
@@WhoAteJoeysUncle
It's okay, I get it.
You are a brain-less piece of toast.
Of course, gender is cultural! That is what we are saying the WHOLE time!
How can one person, YOU, be this brainrotten?😂
You are arguing against positions, we don't even have🤣
Holy cow!😂
^
Being good for rewards and to avoid punishment is the most rudimentary kind of behavior, often seen in young children. The Christin world view is an extreme example. Like you, I’d argue that this isn’t morality, it’s basically selfishness.
Nah. Laws of physics aren’t considered subjective, because the universe is beholden to them, not because its Creator is.
We also know that laws of logic exist (you can’t do science without them) but they aren’t empirically testable in the way laws of physics are.
Christians simply believe that there are also immutable laws of morality given to us, which isn’t that much of a leap considering there are underlying laws of physics and logic. Atheists just keep making category errors assuming that God must be bound by yhe same rules we are (for example, whining about how God “kills people” as if life isn’t temporary by nature, meaning God “kills” everyone, even if it’s from old age.)
Objective morality is how Christians can say, definitively, that murdering children is wrong, when for atheists that’s just an opinion. It’s also the reason why there can be hope for, say, a kid dying of cancer, whereas the best comfort an atheist can give is “Too bad, some of us get to live a long life and some don’t. But remember, you’re made of stardust.”
How do you evaluate that God is moral, if you cannot trust your own knowledge of morality? Brilliant!
How can you know that dunking a basketball is possible, if every time you try it you fail? Checkmate theists! Im a genius in my own mind.
@@AbsentMinded619are you actually that deluded and simple minded? Did you actually think that was some kind of gotcha that made the slightest bit of sense?
Theyre just a bad troll that comments occasionally as an attempt to sound smart and go "Gotcha Athiests!". Pay them no mind
@@AbsentMinded619that has to be sarcastic.
Are you moral in any way at all? well then, where did morality come from, except from God? You certainly didn't originate it. God can't be both moral and immoral, since He would disagree with Himself. So, by your own mouth you have evaluated that God is moral.
Did he seriously say that the child wasn’t innocent and therefore deserved to be SAed? What kind of monster thinks anything justifies SA of a *child* ?!
This call got Atheist Experience in the Austin newspaper. Absolute fire. Two of some of the greatest hosts no longer with ACA because well... ACA has some work to do.
I'm in total shock. He seemed to be trying to understand the arguments and come to grips with some of the more subtle aspects of morality, and then at 45:15 he just comes out with one of the most evil utterances I've ever heard. His view of Christian morality must be totally corrupted.
Not just the Christian. All religions are fup
Because he isn't trying to understand. He knows the answer he wants to get to, and he thinks he's smart enough to play word games to get there, but much like his ability to assess morality, his ability to assess his own intelligence is also broken. The end is him having a frustrated tantrum and saying the quiet part out loud.
See here's the thing though, Marty
His view of Christian morality seems to be on point. There is no real condemnation of child rape in the Bible, and quite a few instances of moral justification of taking children as your wife.
Or more accurately in accordance with Christianity. All the death and suffering caused by Christians in the name of their god and bible indicates its not corrupt but in line.
The level of mental gymnastics theists have to do to stick free will into the infallable divine plan is so crazy...
Yeah, and when confronted with their errors, they'll just ignore it. Wanna bet he used the exact same arguments in his next discussion?
“Screw one sheep”. 😂
One of my favourite jokes.
today, shane works for the kari lake campaign in Arizona ...
I heard the female host of this show now works as Rachel Levine's assistant and pushed to get him named atheist humanist female of the year.
@@WhoAteJoeysUncleregressives when the conversation is not about trans people: "trans people amirite? please laugh"
Is that real? Or is it a joke I'm too European to understand?
@@WhoAteJoeysUncle Can you transphobes stop making everything about trans people FOR 1 NANOSECOND-
Like fucking hell, they say trans people are the ones making everything about gender and stuff, and yet trans people are just trying to live their lives in peace while the transphobes stalk them, make literally EVERYTHING about trans people, invade their privacy, are obsessed with what's in people's pants, and even break laws to be hateful to them cuz they fear that which they don't know and don't TRY to learn about it. If our ancestors were brave enough to learn more about fire, you can be brave enough to research about the different parts of the LGBTQIA+. C'mon, it ain't gonna bite you.
@eagonewild It could be worse. Imagine if they based their whole life and personality on hating something they say they don’t believe in, and even made whole UA-cam channels just to rage against it…oh wait
Well done, Shane, you made the hall of fame of Embarassingly Simple-Minded and Frequently Whiny Theistic Callers.
I guess he proved his point that his moral compas is evil and twisted and corrupted, when he finshed off with abused children probably have it comin'. That is truly dementedly screwed up.
Loved Tracys " you screw 1 sheep" 🤣🤣
I really really hope he doesn't have a family, or neighbours..... That guy is insane
I come back to this call for the sheer delight of such terrific arguments. It's just great.
We inject a mighty being for our lack of understanding, well some of us at least.
This guy has no idea how to form a valid argument... Any time he's challenged in the slightest on anything he says, he immediately jumps to the extreme.
Seeing an old clip of a tired, familiar argument is a harsh reminder that Christianity has lasted this long mostly by hearing reasonably complaints and answering "Nuh-uh!".
Shane ~ I'm using my morality to say that the god that I believe in is moral, however I believe that my morality and that of all humanity is trash and should not be trusted.
Exactly! If humans, independent of God have no basis for morality, then we have no basis to conclude God and his morality are good. Either there are good reason for what we deem right/wrong or there aren't. If there are reasons, then those reasons are why something is right/wrong. If there are no reasons, then why is something right or wrong?
If your religion is the only reason why you don't do bad things, then you are not a moral person.
So he basically just argued for being a religious fundamentalist for 45 mins…
Wow… all that pointless banter just for him to eventually spill the beans that he supports the violation of children.
What a sick minded individual.
"If someone said that it's best for them to drink Clorox every day, I can show them that's not right.:"
2020 says: Several million people in red hats disagree.
Every time I forget that happened, someone reminds me that that happened. What a time to be alive.
You can lead a horse water but you can't make them drink.
not a very intelligent comment
@@DerpBanewhy not? It happened..
I mean, I'm not sure millions of trumpettes were so stupid as to actually *follow* the words of the defendant. But he definitely said it, and people definitely did it.
I am better than god and I think everyone would agree: If I was god there would be no suffering, everyone would be living in a paradise, everyone would be immortal and no one would need to worship me. The fact I can say that and mean it offers proof I am better than anyone who could do the same and doesn't. Anyone care to argue?
I prefer the prospect of a moral mortality (giving me the right to end my life under the consent of my social environment) to a boring immortality (in which I can't stop living).
No argument from me, I believe I’m better than g0d, I have never unlived anything in my life, 20+ yrs in the military and 67 yrs old! Just saying ✌️
Why would anyone want to be immortal ? Have you thought about it for more than five seconds ?
@@reefhog No, immortality is a useless concept except for theists. Immorality's greatest failing is that, when your memory capacity runs out it starts deleting your oldest memories until you can't remember anything, yourself, your relatives......... Who would want that. And yesI've thought about it form more then 5 seconds. Did you spend 5 seconds realising that wasn't my topic?
@@Lightbearer616 Another barely literate dribbler. You don’t know what an ellipsis is, or where to use one, and you don’t know the difference between “then” and “than”. Immortality is a ridiculous concept, not useful to anyone. You couldn’t even address my question. Your comment is pointless drivel.
just wow. that ending. :(
My thought exactly.
Certified classic. That frustration is what happens when you get punched in the face with an undeniable truth.
what a ending! I think his god even felt that one.
Even death may be preferable to life if life means unbelievable unnecessary suffering with no positive outcome. So all these things are contextual.
If "life means suffering", wouldn't that make that suffering _necessary_ for life?
“How do you know God is moral?”
“I see that the world is full of evil-“
Weird. That would tell me that God is immoral.
😆
The book by god blesses slavery and genocide. Also misogyny, homophobia, infanticide and mass abortion. Even today murder of trans people is epidemic, caused by gods and belief in them.
Them : but but man's sinful nature for Adam and eve. Weeeeeee
@@mistylover7398 Man is full of evil as pushed by religious superstition.
You're not moral, and yet you conceive of immorality. You must be created from God, yet you refuse to believe in the only source of righteousness - the Lord.
Its amazing what this christians do and say to defend THAT MONSTER OF A GOD!!
I really feel like a lot of the theists that call into the Line would do well to watch every season of The Good Place, and take notes 😂
Some of them would take notes to apply later, unfortunately lol . . . smh.
"I believe in talking donkeys and snakes but not in magic"
How many children has Shane graped since this phone call?
The ending just makes me classify this video as my ALL TIME FAVORITE.
Dont trust humans. Just trust people from thousands of years ago who tell you what god expects
Waiting for Jim Castleberry and his alts🤣🙏🏼🙏🏼
Well, today is friday so he will likely start soon.
Just don’t say their name three times!
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 clown@@JimCastleberry
He's posted his usual crap
@@joshsheridan9511
At least they’re consistent, although we all know what they say about a foolish consistency…
note from a mathematician: Shane's claim somewhere around 19:00 was that "the fact that you are moral implies there is god". Implication is a mathematical construct, and we know objectively that an implication is equivalent to its contrapositive. And what is that? Negate both sides and invert the direction of the implication. If A implies B, then NotB implies NotA. If the existence of morality implies god, then the absence of god implies the absence of morality. These are objectively the same statement logically speaking. I don't think Shane realized that, but it's true regardless: he's making the same claim as every other christian caller on morality.
For a social animal, "moral" behaviour is reinforced by feedback from other members of their social group. The dog learns to not sit on the sofa because it maximises the positive feedback, and reduces the negative feedback from the people they see as their pack members.
I don't flood the earth and drown nearly every living thing because my Divine Plan went haywire.
… mostly, because being all-knowing and all-powerful you would have guided your Divine Plan to keep on track, instead of setting it up to fail, knowing it must fail …
Never mind that, being a bright fellow, you would have found a million better ways to start over without murdering everyone and watching them all drown (omnipresence is extremely useful to not miss anything) even if you just learned about what had happened.
I still think the Abrahamic God enjoys human suffering way too much, which is why he’s not going to stop a child being r’ed - despite being all-powerful, he watches with a massive boner and then uses the incident to torture the offenders (including the child, of course) into hell. I am not even sure that that God has a heaven or that it is any different from hell. Why not have all humans be actors in the reality TV show “Torture Tournament”, where those who do not torture others enough get tortured for ‘correction’.
Not only dat god knew flooding the world wouldn't stop sin but he did it anyways
The mind virus is strong with this one.
Is this a new feature? I mean the way I see old videos coming with a new thumbnail. Anyhow, I like to see those old ownage-videos :)
When ive had a few drinks I'm a lot more fun to be around. I'm more myself. I find it so much more easier to socialise with strangers. Benefits galore. Just have to control how much I drink because I want to remain healthy and also not fall asleep at social events.
Doesn't our innate sense of survival as a species cause us to have morals?
Morality is just a loose, general system or code of behavior imparted upon the subject by many many things including the evolution of compassion and empathy, and the people, parents, teachers, experiences, and media that you have been subjected to. Must like almost everything else in life, it's not some simple black and white answer, it's messy
it's the difference between having a rule that for every single conceivable situation (y'know, like whether you should wear blended fabrics) and having a set of principles that can be applied anywhere
If humans are social animals, have we not determined rules by which to live that make living in large groups easier? Do we not call those rules…morals?? I think it’s natural to our human evolution. 😊😊😊🍸😊
That’s why humans are so successful. We are like huge ants. Without our brain we wouldn’t be close to as successful as we are.
Your morality must come from within, not from external sources. Hence why Theory of Self-Relativity states: Do unto others as you do unto your Self.
This original sin song-and-dance is repugnant.
I've never committed original sin but I do a mean cover version.
The show never has amazing moments like this anymore. The good old days.
@@JitterBob Stop watching then, no-one is going to hold your hand because you're scared of "the woke".
She's ahead of her time talking about people drinking bleach (Post-covid)
I rember watching this before. That shit at the end is horrendous
The god as depicted in the bible never condoned freedom of thought, religion and/or speech.
omg, aren't such people scary? I mean, really, really scary and potentially dangerous =(
@36:00 dude straight up short circuits 😄
"Always let your conscience be your guide." - Jiminy Cricket.
I am amazed that people will sacrifice their humanity over a dusty old book, like Shane did.
That ending, wow, just wow!
Poor guy. Found himself defending the indefensible and failing to admit it.
These vids are my night lullaby!!
The end 😬
The city typo killed me
I hope that caller is on an fbi watch list 😳
That doesn't even address *the* most ironic part here tbh. (Not to mention them flipping on a dime from "kids are innocent" to "kids deserve it".)
It's that: Not only does god *watch* it happen. He *rewards* it afterwards.
Because, in the bible: That is a *completely moral* thing to do. (As long as you own the kid)
They *always* list things as a gatcha, when their god not only condones that action, but endorses it.
So, as far as morality goes, the very fact that it is constantly disputed, with people arguing over the best policy based on different values and priorities even when all the facts of the case are pretty much agreed upon- this tells me if there is any 'objectively true' morality, whatever that means, humans don't have any clear means of knowing what it is.
I would argue, this is a very good thing, because new knowledge or technology can shift those.
Is it moral to amputate an arm that is so infectios, it would kill the patient?
I say yes.
Is it still moral to amputate the same arm, if there is an antibiotic, that is readily avalible, and would cure the infection?
I say no, not any longer is it moral.
10 commandments. It’s called the moral law. We broke it and Jesus paid the fine. That’s what the Bible teaches. Why don’t you take the time to look at them and examine yourself thru the lens of those commands?
Exodus 20
@@Kdeezy1 Exodus 21
@kalebetheridge5905 , you talk as though I've never read the Bible before. I've read rather too much of it to think that it's a reliable indicator of what is moral.
I am trying to enjoy this video, and i have seen 7 different videos on various subjects tonight. BUT MAN, Google/UA-cam has tonight , put an average of 5 [yes 5! ] commercial break on each video I have seen that is over 40 minutes. Its RIDICULOUS.
You do have the freedom to say that. It’s the action that would cause you to be arrested
Why or how would God be moral if it's all that's actually exists? Who would it have to develop morals for?
It's just an argument pulled out of the anus fallacy.
God is the most evil character in all of fiction
God resurrects everyone soon. You can explain it to 20-30 Billion people. God does not even kill Satan. You have an immortal soul. He gives all the dead another chance. To be HUMAN. if they are twisted. They take a MARK endorsing eternal evil. No one will say to God that was unfair? as we see justice done to perfection. You have not thought it through to its conclusion.
@@paultimson6674 if i unalive you and then resurect you...ia that not torturous?
Would you be ok with someone axing a whole family and then saying "no worries i fixed them"
Youre still going to not want that person ANYWHERE near you
@@Furry-ousNews This is about IMMORTAL souls. you say RIP . I say wrong. God resurrects everyone. To choose. You want to deny them the right to choose? God as your father. Or Satan. Life on earth is not the point of existence. Whether you fulfill a bucket list of wishes. Is not the point. Whether you are happy or miserable is not the point. You are here to find JESUS. that is the point. If you accept JEsus you pass a critical test. All through your life you are judged by people. and then finally GOD judges you. You say that is unfair? but you take a driving test? you go to college? you take tests all the time. if i paint a painting , the test is selling it. I don't want your opinion.. what a lovely horse? what a beautiful scene? as you can talk shit. having 100 people view one of my paintings and NO SALES , tells me its not wanted. so if someone commits to buying my paintings. THEY LIKE IT. and God is asking People to COMMIT to a choice. You can swan about earth saying lovely vista, what a view. Then claim it was created by CHANCE? that is an insult to the creator. You are insulting. This is one test. Not 5. God resurrects you only till you choose a side. Heaven or Hell. once you choose its over. if you take a MARK, you choose Satan as your father. its a simple vote. If you prefer PAIN for all eternity. Take the mark.
@@paultimson6674Prove it.
@@GoodBrotherGrimm its proven by time, in less than seven years you land in hell, IF YOU TAKE A MARK.
This and the argument from nothing are my fav.
There are lots of restrictions on Free Speech, liable just one of many. The only completely unrestricted Freedom is the Freedom of Thought. You can think whatever you want.
*libel
@@GroundhogRoy Thank you.
Logic drove him over the edge. He pulled out all the stops and just went berserk
He just tried to paint a target around the arrow.... And incl. Stuff like atheism is just showing his bias, and dishonesty,as atheism is Only a position on a claim, nothing else.
Imho morality comes from the evolutionary process, where social/group animals are stronger when united. When a single person doesn't behave, the group suffers, thus less chance for survival etc.
This caller really didn't approach this objectively, at all.
If Tom Brady threw 1000 touchdowns and one interception i guess that would make him a bad and evil quarterback
I am not sure there is an innate sense of fairness. It is conditioned, even in animals. Take any child/offspring of any mammal, for example. In animals that have "litters" each pup/kitten/etc. fights for position and will push others out of the way to get fed. The "fairness" is dictated by the mother/parent/elder members. Human children and other apes go through phases very early of "everything is mine." Young toddlers will take another's toys straight from their hands. C0rrective behaviors by others inculcate a sense of fairness into most offspring... sadly, not all.
Nope, the fact that the pups only push each other instead of killing each other just to have a position indicates they have a sense of limits and fairness. While is true that is external data what shapes that brute sense of fairness, there cannot be conditioning when there is nothing to condition.
For example, human children go througt that "everyting is mine" until someone else (usually other child) uses that "everything is mine" and then learn there are limits to "everything is mine".
There is no need to expect and advanced sense of fairness and limits from children and puppies.
@@Julian0101 I disagree. They do not "kill" each other as they just need enough force to push out of the way. "Fairness" is "you get yours, I get mine." Even in pups and others, it is "I get mine and whether you get yours is of no consequence." Just because they do not kill is not a sense of "fairness." It is more an inability at that stage to kill, as well as it is not necessary to kill, merely move out of the way. Which could be argued as a different morality standard, as well.
@@ModelTrainOutsider Correct, the fact they do not kill each other means they have a "i get mine, but there are limits to what i can do to get it".
And that doesnt last long until puppies find that others puppies that do the same to them, and so their model change to "i get mine, and you get yours so lets not harm each other". You can see that virtually all social species.
Also, puppies and children are really delicated at that stage, so anything can kill them, including each other (unless you are talking newly born, but no one expects newly born to have a concept of self to understand fairness), so they limiting to moving each other out of the way is a clear indication that they understand there is a limit.
(Horrible) experiments have been made with animals. 2 rats gets treats they really like., When one rat gets a big treat and eats it, the other rat gets a short hit of electricity. Once the reats figured this out, the one getting the bigger treat stopped eating it.. saving the other rat from the electrical current. There was negative gain for the rat that stopped eating treats, no treat. Ther e was only positive gain for the other rat that wasnt electrocuted.
monkeys were given grapes, at first they got the same size and an amount, then one got big ones, and the other got small ones.. the one who got big gtapes shared with the other monkey ( and they were upset with the handler).
Animals get fairness, its innate. Newborn pups fighting for food to survive is not a fair situation. Adult dogs have often been observed sharing with packmembers.. not because they were told to or taught to, but they wanted to.
Hyena pups DO kill eachother.
@@Julian0101 I think, at the stage, they do not understand limits. While many things for survival are innate (chicks running from casted bird silhouettes immediately from the egg), the concept of restraint, I do not believe is there. A pup, as our discussion centers on, is either strong enough to push someone else out of the way or is not and waits or is denied altogether. It is not that they know there is a limit, it is they do as much as it takes as they can. Yet, even in your example, it is still not a sense of "fairness," but, as mentioned, a mode of not needing to kill, merely bully enough. The stronger pup, or lion cub is not concerned with being fair, but merely making sure THEY get THEIRS and the others who can be bullied are of no consequence, even if it means the runt dies. Even feeding mothers will not necessarily look out for the runt... much as a lioness will not overtly object to the new male lion, who has just taken over the pride, killing off the youngest cubs, which prompts the females to go into heat. Survival of the fittest/strongest is, inherently, not "fair."
The caller is incredibly narrow-minded. His ideas about morality are really questionable.
His last comment shows how immoral his worldview is just to justify his limited beliefs.
Lets cut the shit caller-if you had proof of a god you wouldn't need to dance around with elaborate scenarios to try and make it something to seriously consider!
45:12 i just had a fully body reaction to that . . . how does that thought even enter someones mind
At the end the caller confuses the ability to sort out moral issues with whether someone has done bad things. Those are different. To say I've done bad things means i DO have moral judgement that I trust or I wouldn't be thinking I had done bad things. It is the very idea that we sometimes do things we deem bad that proves we have moral judgement and that we trust it.
i was trying to figure out why a video uploaded two months ago looked so old...
then i saw the timestamp for 2013
Wait, at 13:06, did he say the Second Amendment freedom of speech?! Did I hear that right?! 😂😂
I wonder if Shane woke up one day and was like, wow, I'm suddenly having these words forming into sentences in my brain, and this has never happened to me before, and I'll write it down and assume it has some value other than toilet paper
That’s the thing with honest theist callers: even the best of them can put up an appearance of rationality and intellectual honesty-and it doesn’t even have to be a deliberate deception, they could genuinely be trying to be an honest interlocutor-but at a certain point they will resort to saying something completely petulant and ugly that exposes the true rot of their ideology when followed through honestly. It’s fundamental impossible not to when said ideology has tenets such as “even if I have doubts, ignoring them and following a god’s commands is objective morality because my moral compass cannot be trusted at all” and “I have used my flawed moral compass to determine that god is a moral figure worth following”.
The only comebacks to objections on those two tenets are ugly and petulant comebacks, because there is no fundamental way around the gaping abscess of a logical contradiction and doublethink involved in those premises.
My moral compass is not flawed just because my mind is not perfect, and I don't have complete understanding of every issue that exists. By your definition, you should never say another word.
@@wprandall2452 Not sure what your intended recipient is. Did you mean your comment for me or for the theists I’m talking about?
@@wprandall2452
Holy fucking shit that ending statement
Her joke @ 43:05 didn’t get the recognition it deserved 🤣 and it was relevant to his stupid argument.
I am enjoying this conversation but I am having trouble looking at the screen and seeing Phoenix misspelled.
Best episode ever.
Freedom comes with responsibility. Religious people will never understand that.
If we got our morality from god, why does our morality vary ?
And if the bible is the word of God, then it means the bible represents what is moral, which means slavery is moral, as is genocide, stoning children to death for being unruly, and women are inferior to men.
Shane should read up on the Neuremberg trial.
Up up down down left right left right A
Moral code activated
26:08 I’ve had profound experiences of emotional healing under the influence of certain … things. *Things* are not inherently moral or immoral. Not speech or seggs or radios or guns or music.
Thanks!
Thank YOU!!
I dunno how he has the patience for this fools.