Trigger Warning: Setting the record straight on our golf swing analysis 🤫
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- Опубліковано 17 тра 2024
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In this in-depth discussion, Mike Granato addresses doubt from a golfer questioning the data used by Athletic Motion Golf and Gears 3D.
Delve into the world of advanced golf instruction as we explore the revolutionary Gears golf swing analysis system.
Michael Neff, the founder of Gears, sheds light on the unparalleled accuracy of their 3D motion capture technology in analyzing golf swings. Discover the stark differences between traditional 2D and comprehensive 3D analysis, and understand why tracking the golfer's body and the club is pivotal for a holistic understanding of the golf swing. Whether you're a seasoned golfer or or new to the game, this video offers insights into the science behind perfecting your swing and the role of motion capture in golf instruction and addresses the TRUTH of golf instruction using 3d motion capture. Join us as we debunk myths, discuss the importance of individual analysis over averages, and reveal the future of golf coaching with cutting-edge technology.
#golf #pga #athleticmotiongolf - Спорт
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"What would you do if we won the Powerball?" (My Wife)....."I'd go see the AMG guys for like a month!" (me)
Come on, you can stay at the house 🙂
Hey, brother, I’d do the same. Cheers. 😊
Same here!!!
Their golf schools are fairly reasonable, I plan to get to one in the next few years.
This is the way
Haters gonna hate. Most of us know what you guys are all about. The information we get from this channel is priceless, and we thank you for it.
Thank you
Super cool stuff. Fight fire with upfront communication, clarification and honesty. 90 percent of issues in life come down to misunderstandings from two or more parties. Great job you two!
Always the best policy!
One big problem is still up to date, we can measure positions and movements, but we hardly know the feel nor most often don’t understand, what muscles fire at given time snd how the rythm of a proper motion feel.
We can do that too. You just have to be in the suit to feel it.
I am a Physical Therapist with a background in data collection, placing markers on skin, using cameras that have to be calibrated, analyzing data, etc. We used this for research purposes, injuries, running mechanics, etc. I appreciate you all doing this video. I am a member of AMG and appreciate what you all do. It’s awesome to see what is happening in the swing from a 3D perspective. The data is only as good as the people collecting and using it, Shaun and Mike are fantastic, they apply it to real people and educate people how to film swing to allow us to analyze in relation to gears as close as possible.
Nice try flex bro
You guys are the best in the business, bar none. I think it's admirable that you have taken the time out of your hectic schedules to debate these claims against you. I hope this silents the critics and you're able to go back to making stress-free content.
We hope so too. Thank for the kind words 🙏
As a structural engineer, I've enjoyed learning golf for years from how loads and movements can be targeted, tracked, and predicted using math along with emperical experience. This channel offers great explanations of all this and more, and keeping the discussion relevant and respectful sets a great example for us all. Thanks as usual.
Thank you brother!
You're my go to channel for instruction. The pros vs ams series is very good and I've used some of the concepts in my game to keep me on track.
Love it. We're working on the next PvA as we speak 🤓
I love the videos that show the GEARS data. These videos and the AMG analysis have allowed me to drop my index by 5 points. Understanding the recentering was key to my improvement and I am so thankful that this technology is available. Thanks for all the work you all do to make us better golfers. I appreciate this video as well so that people understand the complexity of GEARS and how amazing this 3D technology is for the analysis of the swing.
Let's get that next 5! 🙏
You guys have done a tremendous job of blending the details of GEARS into teachable concepts for the avid golfer, and using data to back it up. I thought I knew the golf swing pretty good before these videos but I was at like a 3 out of 10… you guys have brought me up to like a 7-8, which is unbelievable. Seriously.
Mike, Mike and Shaun, it’s a shame that you have to defend your system and data because some people don’t understand it or don’t like it. You should never criticize something without empirical evidence, and knowing how it works. This is the big problem with social media, people have perceived courage when they can hide behind a screen and complain without the facts. Kudos to you both for setting the record straight. Too bad time had to be wasted on stupidity. Cheers.
Having critics is part of the job. We thought it was a good opportunity to deep dive into how the data is collected and to what degree of accuracy. We hope it gives another level of confidence in what folks are working on.
@@AthleticMotionGolf I learned a lot and much appreciate the education. Hope others did too. Cheers.
Before my career as a golf instructor (the last 23 years) I was an engineer who measured air pollution from smokestacks and vents (for 28 years), using the best equipment at the time, calibrated to the nines, generating legally-defensible data. When the data presents the "truth" of what is happening, the standard knee-jerk reaction was and is always attack the data. The good news from your measurements is that what the pros do is easier than what the ams try to do. Keep up the good work and please keep sharing it with us.
Wow that's some important data collection there. We're glad the videos help!
I’ve been a subscriber for a long time. I was a subscriber to Shawn’s channel back in the day. I went from an 18+ handicap with hitting my driver like 200 yards to 4 handicap hitting my driver about 280 yards. I hit the ball further than anyone in my regular group. That includes flat belly guys almost 1/2 my age as I’m no spring chicken. They keep joking but not joking that I really should hit off of the tips. All of my “breakthroughs” came from watching AMG. I could probably be the AMG poster child. Trust me, I subscribed to several “lesson” channels but all of those have faded away except for AMG. I get such a buzz when I see an AMG long vid posted. Sorry for the long post. Keep doing what you’re doing. You guys are really the best in the biz.
I'm 2:30 into this video...
So not heard to much so far...
But what I do know is.
I've been struggling with my swing for a while now,
Currently play off 7hc.
I've seen 2 of your videos.
The one on rotating and the one on shallowing the club.
Got some feels, went out today and bang...
Swing is back on track...
So I don't know what this guy is winging about, but I for one am dead happy...😄
Stop watching and go play! 👊🙂
The attention to detail and the commitment to continuous learning is what makes you guys the best. Thanks for putting out great information.
We love trying to get better too lol. Thank you for noticing the details that go into the work 🙏
Got my first lesson on the dual plates and gears system this month, wish me luck guys and love the content keep up the good informative work 👍🏻
Mike great show ,life member PGA 63 years apreciate all the info . Still trying to get more distance useing your videos.
The people criticising seem to be using terms and arguments they have an awareness level understanding of, based on what they've heard or read someone else say in other contexts. But they don't truly understand, at the required deep level, what they're talking about.
These sorts of arguments are encountered regularly, for example where someone just blurts out 'CORRELATION DOESN'T EQUAL CAUSATION' and then look happy with themselves because, in their own minds, they've discredited the whole study. This is despite the fact the person they're talking to, has already explained exactly what their methods and findings CAN say, and what they CAN'T say.
Kudos for addressing the (non) issue
It was a good opportunity to do a deep dive into how the numbers are collected. We hope it at least clears up those nonsense ideas lol
Different strokes for different folks.......doesn't make anyone right or wrong. Been sub'd for 3 years to this channel, only benefited from watching the detailed analysis that isn't available in any other YT channel, which helped my game over all. Keep up the great work gentlemen.
Love it! Glad it's helping 👊
This was an interesting video. For my ten cents I believe in what you do. I have lessons with a good pro and watch AMG. The videos always compliments what I am taught. The fact is I try it and get better. I don't need more than that. Well done and keep going, getting better is fun.
Guys I just hope you keep doing what you are doing. The information you share is so valuable. You are doing a great service to the game.
Best golf instructional video by far. No on comes close. AMG and Gears are simply amazing. Most instructors teach based on their "feel" which we know is very subjective. Most of my understanding of the golf swing is watching these videos. Please keep providing great content!
Yessir, we plan to! 🙏
As an LPGA teaching pro, I am a consummate learner of the golf swing. I would love a more science-based evidence learning system to teach, but most of us will never have use of this equipment. So, what I’ve found helpful with athletic motion is learning how the body can effectively achieve impact, and then intuitively observing clients (with this greater understanding) and helping them focus on the changes that will get them results. Case in point, when I tried to externally rotate my shoulders on the downswing I started shanking the ball; the evidence-based science would prove this causal effect. At the end of the day, are they hitting the ball more consistently, perhaps farther, and enjoying their game? As a professional it is my job to own the science and data, but with my clients, I keep it simple.. with great results!
It's stuff like that as to why I teach "spectrum golf", which is more about big picture concepts and adjustments, such as pulling a "lever" here, pushing it there. I think the avatars are great for "in general" discussions about better ball strikers, then it opens an opportunity up to talk about the different movement of parts of the body, and their effect on the club.
Teaching people the steps IMO is more important than teaching them the answer. That way, they can go mix, match, and apply their understanding to their game.
Plus it never does cover that people can make these movements with golf equipment that isn't even close to fitting them, that's always a fun topic.
As usual, I enjoy the stuff and the graphics. You guys are doing great.
Edit: I think you guys should do a speed series of GEARS with Long Drive players to really take a peek at their differences.
Any chance of a video showing a complete set up of the system, from the camera rig to putting the markers on, calibration etc? Would be interesting to see 🙏
We can do that 👍
You guys have revolutionized my game and I've been playing for 50 years around a 3 handicap. . An honest mix of your observation and superior technology. Who cares if you generally don't name names.
Thanks for pulling back the curtain a bit. Proud to call you guys my coaches! Best thing I ever did for my game was silence all of the other noise.
At least turn the noise down a little 🙂
Its disappointing that you need to make this video , but i,m glad you did, what was that!! .2 of a millimetre accuracy WOW !!
As a higher handicap golfer Ive picked up so much information from AMG and the gears Avatar , golf pros talk feels in lessons but feels are often different form one person to the next ! but if you can mimic the correct positions and do it slowly you can often then create that feel, great work guys
It was a good opportunity to talk about the tech and its accuracy. We want golfers to have confidence in the info if they choose to use it.
This is great. You guys are brilliant and the facts are on your side. Thanks for helping me enjoy the game much much more.
Mike and Shawn, my gratitude runs deep. I've been incredibly impressed by GEARS and by y'all. Being able to watch GEARS to understand the body movements while listening to your commentary has change my game 100% to the better. A very deep and sincere thank you for your dedication and effort to help all golfers understand this extremely challenging and ridiculously fun game!
🙏🏻💯💯💯💯
AMG is fantastic! A light bulb finally came on after the very first video I ever watched. It covered re-centering and has allowed my to hit the ball better than I ever had. Before discovering AMG videos, I was never able to get my handicap into single digits. This year I got down to 8.1 and it is directly related to what I've learned with your videos.
Let's go!
I am a physical therapist, started playing golf this year, and I was immediately amazed by the quality and quantity of your work - especially on the biomechanical standpoint. That is a level of quality that, sadly, not even all PTs (i have witnessed) have when accessing patients - so kudos and keep it up!
We’ve got 3d movement screens coming next ! It’s amazing what gears has been working on
That left hip internal rotation video to address squishy knees was super helpful - so far.
I really didnt realize you had haters. Dont see why and i am not one of them. Just wish i could afford to spend some time with you guys. I would be a much better player than i am. Keep up the good work and thanks for the hard work that gives us some help at least.
My dad always told me something growing up that I didn't really understand until we started post free content online. "You can hand the next 10 people you see a brand new $100 bill, and at least one of them will complain you didn't give them five 20's." He was dead on lol
Can you do some analysis on putting mechanics? I’m still wondering if Dave pelz’s perfy model is still valid (straight back and through stroke) if one can place the hands directly beneath the fulcrum of rotation in a vertical pendulum pure in line square stroke.
The new putting module in GEARS is INSANE. We will def be doing that.
@@AthleticMotionGolf I'm really interested in seeing the biomechanics of different pro golfers, their hand and putter head paths, their wrist moments. Again, it's the variability and standard deviations that will be the most revealing. I'm guessing there are many ways to putt well because all you need is a square club face at impact going at the correct speed, doesn't matter how you get there
Your videos are superb and very helpful. I wonder if the next advance in technology will involve monitoring the brain, since that is what governs all movements. Are you aware of any research in that realm!?
@@richardelgart8420we've actually monitored the brain of players for a while a few years back. Even did it during a practice round at Pebble of a Tour player we were helping. The information is FASCINATING. Dr Debbie Crews is the 🐐 when it comes to research in this area.
@@AthleticMotionGolf Thank you. Do you see yourselves doing a video on this? I read Dr. Crews’ book a few years ago. If I remember correctly, she was selling a device that measured brain waves during play? It did not resonate with me at the time, but I will look into her work once again.
I was with you when you first started AMG. You have accomplished a great deal since then, and I congratulate both of you.
As for the critics, as we say in NY, “Eff ‘em,” LOL.
One last question for today: Have you ever measured for differences in a player’s swing when he/she was focusing on what to do with the club, as opposed to what to do with his/her body? Thank you.
13:15 I loved the "any plane" flex LMAO
I dig your videos and the minutia. So I have only posted compliments or Questions. Mostly Compliments with an occasional “am I thinking correctly “ type question.
Love it!
Is there a way to find the nearest Coach/instructor that uses Gears? I think I know the answer is 4 hours away from OKC but just want to confirm
Reach out to gears golf, they should be able to direct you to the nearest system 👍
I think I'm on the right track by incorporating a few themes of AMG's work---specifically earlier transition leading to earlier peak arm speed in the downswing. Most amateurs overswing and they're late changing direction.
Let us know if you'd like to see us cover something specifically to help.
I am in a different country from you guys, in a different part of the world and I am only aware of your stuff through UA-cam. Over the last few years you have helped me understand the concepts of what makes a good golf swing and as a result I have taken a few shots off my handicap so that i am now able to play in the 70's and also have some idea of what to do when my swing is 'off' in order to get it back. You are very generous with your information and personally I think your work is fantastic.
Technology and data has allowed us to move on from the kind of instruction that gave a player advice based on a hunch or what instructor A thinks vis a vis instructor B. Keep doing the good work and know that it's appreciated.
We're certainly going to do our best to continue. Thanks you for the kind words!
So I looked and the closest Gears to me is Rick smiths almost 3 hours away. Athletic Motion is much closer to me in Satellite beach Florida. Which should I go to? Is the same data offered at AMG?
Gears is the tool used to capture the data. You might be hard pressed to find anyone who has captured more pro/am data or has more experience using/teaching with GEARs than AMG.
@@AthleticMotionGolf ok. I’d like to make the drive over
@@joeswain2099 we look forward to working with you! You can see our schedule and book with this link athleticmotiongolfclub.onbookee.com/appointment/r/630?id=1290&user=3260
You guys run a fun entertaining channel to watch, and for people like me who like diving into things for years and analyzing every bit of it, your channel is my favorite. Your gears system makes more sense to me than anything else. Not to mention you back your statements up with data and facts. I’ve heard and been taught more backwards things than I can count. You are taking feel and also 2d visuals and challenging them. Basically you’re upsetting the industry. For every 1 revolutionary there are 1000 naysayers. Maybe even more. How many swing gurus completely change what they teach over night after being proven wrong? Cough Sean foley cough cough. We like it. Keep after it for us swing nerds.
We really appreciate those kind words🙏🏻. It’s awesome to hear the info we’ve been able to collect and share is helping. Thank Hank you for watching!
Hy guys! I'm a pro golfer with experience of play on satellites tour in europe. In my opinion you both do a great job! I wish I had those informations 20 years ago. I'm 40 now. What i didn't appreciate of this video is a pointing out about precision of measures, mine are better than yours, bla bla bla. I guess that tracking best players in the world showing what really CONCEPTUALLY happens in their swings and clears a lot of old ideas that make you whorse inspite of better. Since I was 12 I practiced a lot of theese concepts getting worse, tired, confused and gived up too early even with shooting some 68. I guess in golf every player has got to find his road, his swing. With a school like amg sharing his job with everyone is possible to understand what is logic or not in your swing. That's all. And it's GREAT. For sure not even spending 3 years at amg 20 years ago I COULDN'T BECOME TIGER WOODS, RORY OR DJ. But I could reach MY best with less efforts and faster. Go on mesuring. Every day, every time. Every golfer will thankyou. In the end if rory lift his arms 18 or 45 degrees, it's not the reason he wins championships. All the best to everyone
May Sportbox AI do it not perfect like, but close to Gear? It's working pretty awesome and economically expensive at the moment but more will come out soon to drive cost more effeciently.
I've been on a Gears system a few times and it's enlightening and the information translates into improvement. It's a scientific approach and it works. Straight up.
No question about it👊
Keep doing what you do guys, you have helped me & my wife with your vids . Cheers.
🙏
Thank you very much. Very interesting and great discussion. Again, thank you very much.
I'm only part way through, so maybe he will eventually answer my question. But the big question I have with bio-capture technologies is how can you tell what is causal? Is the arm moving a certain way because the club is pulling it that way? Or does the club move that way because the arm put energy into it? How is all this detailed descriptive data used to try to figure out the actual causes of good swings, the critical key movements, versus things which are just the effects of some other key movement.
I'm not speaking for Mike, Shaun, Michael, or anyone else, but… that's where the human, the coach/instructor, and his or her experience come into play. GEARS doesn't tell you what causes what; it measures what happens. It's up to the coach/instructor to take that information and distill it down to a bite-sized nugget for the golfer.
It would be handy to know who are the models chosen for analysis. I know that you usually try to get a spectrum, but there are a lot of different swing camps out there. The concept of the two plane vs one plane, or the guys who are driving it more off their trail leg, etc. I’m less likely to want to follow the model of Justin Thomas than Adam Scott or Rory for example. My natural swing is going to fit better with some.
I also know that this might be a moot point because you might not be able to use them 😂.
I love the channel and the work you do. You make a great team and you do your thing well!
Alan
Thanks Alan 🙏🏻 The funny thing we’ve learned over the years from the data is, all this guys do key things VERY similarly. Insanely similar in many cases. Regardless of what it looks like because of differing sizes and dimensions. Things like back post, one plane, two plane, etc are not things we seen supported by the numbers. It’s been quite an education for us in that regard.
@@AthleticMotionGolf I’d love to see videos breaking those things down. You do a pretty good job with things you think are “myths”. There are probably a lot more.
Your videos have been helpful for me in changing some perspective. This has translated into a better more consistent swing.
I do wonder, since I am also a researcher, if it IS possible for some of these outcomes to be the result of not enough discrimination when placing the folks into groups for comparison. That is a big thing in the rehabilitation publication (my area). For example if you compare treatment A vs treatment B, but you don’t separate the groups based off of who might act need treatment A etc. so essentially the issue in this case is that we say a treatment doesn’t work half of the time, but we are doing it indiscriminately. If we choose carefully, we see far different results.
So, for example for the hardy one plane release, he has pro examples of who he puts into both categories. Comparing the extremes of the two lists would be the only good way to do it. Also the windows of tolerance may be too wide to really give us options.
I still suspect you might be right, because I’ve learned some of these things and they have never helped, but the information you put out has. It is more of a curiosity thing.
Oh, by the way, you often talk about stretching as a mobility solution. There are far better ways of improving mobility that don’t involve stretching that are quicker and longer lasting. Same thing with retraining motor patterns. It would be cool if you could add movement experts to your crew at least for some videos to show some cutting edge techniques!
Thanks again!
Alan
@@ReSourceEnergetics great idea!
Plllleeweeeaaaase analyze Jim furyk on gears. 🙏 god bless
I wonder how cool it would be to see these swings on a 3d avatar in VR. That'd be such a cool tool
Perfect example of what critc meant was 10 players draw, 10 players fade, average is straight - what do you do with it? But then a good explanation followed, even those 20 players have the most important moves in common within a small margain, which most amateurs can very much learn from because they deviate a lot in those. Therefore, averages as a reference is a better tool than most. I don't even want to go into indepth praise of their 3d motion capture with instant change into any possible view angle. And i think, they very cauciously approach each online lesson.
I think the issue here is that different body types and build make up just means some golfers will have to find their body type to get better and work around their own body type limitations fully agree a reference point ❤❤❤
This is my go to channel , I'm a very low single figure handicapper and the reason I've got there is partly from watching and listening to the content of your videos!!
Love it! Let us know if there's anything specifically we can make for you 👊
When I first started playing golf, my friends and I would simply try to bash the ball as far forward as we could, find it and repeat. As we got better and started to take it more seriously, we took lessons in the hope of improving. That’s the biggest mistake we made. We became trapped in the endless cycle of positions and aesthetics being peddled by snake oil merchants masquerading as instructors. They had little training, very little equipment and absolutely no understanding of physics or biomechanics. As a “senior” golfer now (too vain to tell you) I discovered AMG. Through scientific data acquisition I now completely understand what the best players on the planet are doing because they are being measured by systems like gears. Their numbers are not important to me but the sequence in which they execute their moves are highly significant and the analysis of those sequences that Mike and Shaun (and everyone else at AMG) provide has revolutionised online golf instruction and confined snake oil “tip” instruction to room 101 for good. Keep doing what you do AMG - if it ain’t being measured, then you are only guessing. I prefer data.
Thank you for sharing that - so awesome to hear!
Read the title as “Tiger” warning and swiftly clicked, but OOPS, my senior blurred vision got me again! 2nd thing I noticed was the KIRKLAND water bottles. You mean after all the ‘obscene’ profits you’re making from ‘misleading’ advice you can’t afford better? ;) 😅
We’re working on that Costco sponsorship deal 😂
Guys keep doing what you do. Haters will always hate. You and Shaun saved my golf game because of how you break it down in chunks!!
Thank you brother!
Well if you have flaws then those flaws have worked for me. Not sure what this guy is referring to. I have used the methods you guys recommend and I have seen much cleaner and accurate strikes of the golf ball. I can feel a real difference in my swing path and speed. The insight you guys give has been invaluable to me the results are real. If anyone wants to improve their swing they should subscribe to your channel.
I think you guys could do some really interesting stuff with further data. Body type for example: How are long torso/short leg guys swinging? How are taller vs shorter players swinging? Etc.
All good ideas👊. We are working on one of those now.
LOL the haters came from a topic within Golf WRX which I live on... haha funny stuff. Thanks to AMG Team for this video!
The people trying to disprove you are probably the same people that think the earth is flat😂
Not sure how anyone could refute the science / technology that you guys are using to map out golf swings / athletic motion. I'm not a scientist, but I was an electronics / RF engineer in my day so I do have a better than average understanding about sensor technology. I enjoyed this refutation video, but honestly... I'm not sure you guys need to prove anything to anyone. I enjoy watching your videos and have learned much from them. You guys keep up the great work, helping us old duffers play better golf.
It’s not easy to communicate with thousands of individuals who all have different vocabulary and interpretations etc. I don’t see why you are wasting your time defending yourself. I have learned a great deal from AMG and enjoy the content. When it becomes to much minutiae for me I fast forward. Shaw and Mike never told me I have to believe everything I hear. It’s on my bucket list to go see them in person. Now that I am retired might be soon ❤
So given that an amateur’s swing can’t immediately be made to look like a tour professional’s, how do you prioritize which swing components to emphasize with each individual student?
We learned from greats like Butch and Scott to find the big tumor in the swing and remove it first. The overall swing will improve, and then you can see what might need attention (if anything) after that.
@@AthleticMotionGolf got it, so in theory you gradually chip away at the issues until the students swing resembles the model. Do you think there is any place for swing archetypes or do you leave that alone so long as the major parameters are within range?
@@samvega290 the issues, yes, but there really isn't a model. This is where the player's individual goals and abilities come in to play.
@@AthleticMotionGolf thanks!
Great stuff. Gears is awesome and so is AMG
Thank you brother!
here's an idea. get an avatar for different handicaps. as in collect swing measurements from large study groups Example: +2 , scratch, 1 - 5hc. 5 - 10 hc etc etc. that way, golfers of all ability could get more context as to where theyre at. bob whos a 10 handicap who wants to get to a 5 handicap could look at his swing vs the avatar for that handicap range and pinpoint the lowest hanging fruit for him to work on.
We tried to do that for a while. The problem that makes it fall apart is that there aren't any unifying characteristics across levels. Meaning we've seen scratch golfers who come over the top and 15 handicaps who are miles under. Basically there are a number of key things all golfers struggle with, including pros. Who those affect the player just depends on the skill level, but the core issues are the same for all.
@@AthleticMotionGolf makes sense. Thanks
Dang AMG spillin tea 🫖 😂
The key moment for me was, "pros cannot do what amateurs do" (at least this is the jist of it I think)!. AMC golf has saved my back from further damage and put my knee replacement off indefinitely😍😍😍
Luddites will luddite. You guys are the only golf instruction channel that shows evidence and facts rather than opinion and style bias. Keep it up.
We aim to keep that trend going. 🙏
Some day they will invent a body suit that, instead of measuring your swing movements, will make your body move like the pro in the avatar so you can really feel the positions. Obviously this will take into account any physical limitations and will not be as fast as the pro to avoid injury. It will just allow the amateur to see and feel where the hands, arms, shoulders, torso, hips, are at each point in the swing.
One of the most obvious ways AMG hits the nail on the head is by demonstrating what a tour pro does NOT do. Finding the truth through negation is very reliable and AMG data allows us this process deeper than other swing analysis.
First let me say "you guys are great!" A lot was said about the "average pro" and what they do. My one problem that I have with what "pros do" is that if you look at all of the greats; Tiger, Jack ...etc... they all had to have some sort of surgeries and I do not hear much on protecting the joints/body from injury. Meaning just because a pro does a certain movement; that movement may not be the best for the joints and the pros have an extensive training program that builds up the muscles to protect the joints; but that's only up to a certain point; the incorrect movement takes over and either surgery (not always a guarantee) or stop playing is the results. The average golfer is not going to do that because they don't have the money or time or both. So, no matter what instruction you give; if it causes a given golfer injury; what good is it? I am a Rotary Swing student and also follow what Dr. Kwon has done on UA-cam and believe that both of these systems look at the bio mechanics; as well as AMG (learned a ton from your videos) and are the best in producing the golf swing for a given golfer. That being said; I am about to install a golf sim in my house and was wondering what the cost is for your system or are there different levels? I was looking at the HD system around the $80,000 mark; I imagine that yours is a lot more?
With injuries, you have to keep this mind... professional athletes are always going to do things off their playing field/court/course that cause injuries. They don't possess the couch potato gene lol. So many injuries occur outside of their sport. And those injuries often lead to compensations that lead to injuries in their sport. Certainly not in all cases but it happens FAR more than is ever reported. We get this straight from the athletes themselves. Then in golf, there's years and years and years of one-sided movements that are incredibly taxing on the body even if done perfectly and safely. Short answer, injuries have much more associated with them than JUST swing mechanics.
The LiDAR would be cool to make the customer avatar for gears lesson though.
I think you guys are missing some fundamentals: cause and effect, intention and result, muscle firing sequences, and grip pressures and torques. To get your complete picture, you need all of these. You need extra sensors and some of them probably don’t yet exist.
You guys have gone to extraordinary lengths to isolate what drives good mechanics. It uses data that just wasn’t available before. Can we fully understand the precise movement? Not yet, available data will always improve. If you have a consistent logic that you apply, looking at true causes, and not effects, that moves us forward tremendously. Well done.
It’s a fact, not fiction! 🤷🏼♂️ I’ve tried many top golf instructors over the years with limited progress. Most are exceptional instructors but rely on 2D technology. 🤷🏼♂️ AMG Golf, on the other hand, blows my mind with their precision and knowledge. It’s laughable when other instructors criticize them for their detailed approach. I started my AMG journey two years ago, and the progress has been incredible. Thanks, AMG, for the unmatched roadmap!
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Fantastic info here!
I think anyone doing a scientific or statistical study should provide their data collection and engineering specifics so that someone could understand how to replicate it. I applaud you for doing it. That’s just how we share findings in a scientific community.
We're just a couple of golf pros, but you're right, it was long over due.
@@AthleticMotionGolf don’t sell yourself short though, you’re excellent at this analysis !
Imitation (and envy from teaching pros who are focused on being influencers more than instructors) is the highest form of compliments.
Then we thank them 😅
Love what you guys do! Just wish your prices were more affordable.
Thanks brother. If you're around Winter Garden, I can't recommend Nick Duffy enough at our AMG Club👍
Stop focusing on the haters! Love your content. We get why it’s accurate. You don’t have to explain. Get back to teaching!
23:50. The journey of the club!
that was gold
Really interesting to understand how the system actually works :) Thanks guys.
And no better person to share that info than the owner 🙂
Great video, love the content!
When the arm lowers on downswing the trail shoulder goes into internal rotation. Period. WEYLAND OUT
over and out sir 10-4
I made a living monitoring process using statistics so I dig what you guys are doing.
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You provide a piece of the puzzle in terms of the movements of the body and the relative timing, and you do that very well. You do not explain what muscles are being used to make these movements, which would also be useful.
Because that would be vague at best. Just google the muscle layers of the back. The amount of involvement there would be mind-numbing to discuss with any level of accuracy. Plus no one with out a medical degree would be able to follow along. It's also not necessary to improve a swing 🙂
I respectfully disagree, as there are people on youtube that accurately discuss which muscles are used in the swing. It is useful to know for purposes of increasing specific muscle strength to increase clubhead speed, and I am sure the pros get advice on this for their workouts. For example, you point out that the pros increase clubhead speed earlier in the downswing with the arms, but you do not say how to do this, ie which muscles are used. I think you need a physical therapist on your staff to start addressing these concerns, or you are not going to keep up with the Joneses! I do love what you do however!
@@AthleticMotionGolf
Do y’all have a lot of pros use the gears system?
Would depend on how you define a lot.
Amazing video! Thanks!
Thanks for watching!
I know for certain I will never, even in my dreams, hit a golf ball like a pro. I watch AMG golf because I like to see the mechanics of a "pro swing” and maybe get a hint of a hint of a good movement. I am an observer of the golf swing and can state that 95.75 percent of all golfers have something in their swing that is not perfect. And that .25 percent don’t have the perfect swing every time. I wish there was a time machine and you guys could measure Mr. Hogan or Mr. Jones. Would the data confirm what history says?
We would LOVE to see the numbers from those legends!
What do yall think is the main reason Rory can drive the ball so well? Is there one key thing that separates him? I know some is just God given talent
When looking at the numbers, his movements are pretty much dead in the middle of what we see with pros. He does the basic things EXCEPTIONALLY WELL. He can separate his shoulders a good bit from his pelvis in the backswing, but we've seen a number of players have that ability but don't do the basic things nearly as good.
Id wish youd stop this silly war between you guys,AMG.Milo and elite are 3 out of 5 YT golf sites that have helped me strike and play my best ever golf at 63!
my last 3 comp rounds have been 1 over, 2 over and level! i might even break par b4 im to old!
The flaw with the great gears system to me is that it analyses joint or more accurately skeleton movement! I have never thought of what my skeleton is doing in every other sport ive been good at! i have focussed on muscle movement or the in word is fascia, imagine trying to serve fast and accurately at tennis focussing on my skeleton!
Of course you've thought about where your arms/torso/pelvis/legs/etc are in every other sport you've played. Just as every other athlete who's even slightly analyzed their movement has.🙂 We see a system that accurately measures and tracks those movements as the furthest thing from a flaw.
@@AthleticMotionGolf Ive focussed on athletic motion! influenced by intent
@@grahamjones7371 awesome 👏. The athletic motion of what? The intent to do what?
@@AthleticMotionGolf If i intend to throw a ball to you fast and accurately this intention influences my athletic motion to produce the result,
im not thinking about what my skeleton is doing!
We all know feel may not be real!
EG my no 1 feel at the mo is that i create space to load the shaft/grip with my pecs,shoulders arms,po[nt the butt end somewhere near the ball at the top and having recentered from left arm // im throwing a long rugby spin pass!
Anyway b4 trading more blows! id like to thank you for all your great videos that have helped me produce the best ball striking and comp scores ever!
But the other guys have helped as well,they might have a different way of thinking,
feel may not be real!
But you all help produce athletic motion
@@grahamjones7371 it’s awesome to hear the videos have been a part of your stellar play! Thanks for watching! I think or conversation has been quite cordial and friendly, I hope you don’t really feel like we’re exchanging blows. Asking questions helps me better understand what you’re saying. What you’ve described with recentering, creating space, etc is what your skeleton is doing😉. Which is not how us or gears ever describes it, but that is what’s happening. The point is to make the movements you’re after. In learning how to do so, we’ve got to put our joints and segment in different places. That can feel as literal or as abstract as needed, but what is absolutely necessary is that you move your skeleton differently to make a different motion. In describing what that difference is, we can’t measure feels or intent, but we can measure the reality of what is taking place. So we always like to start there 🙂
Look, at the end of the day...I think we can all agree...Michael "Nipper" Neff has handsome legs. 😂💪🏼👌
They stole the show lol
ive learned a lot. thx guyz...even if it didn't work....i still learn from it. this weekend i had a tourny, started off bad...saw my shadow and by the middle and end...i got it. you have got to have angle at the top of your swing...angle in your hips. your hips go forward off the start, your toast. and i'm dj in it with my wrist and i got my flush shot back. now i need 125mph.
Don't we all lol
Best information on the internet hands down !
Thank you brother!
I think it's a great system and AMG does outstanding job explaining information they get from Gears. The problem with gears isn't the information it's expensive system, and the people that use it have to charge so much is out of reach for the average golfer. You need to find a way to make it's more acceptable for all golfers.
That's out of our hands, unfortunately. Cameras, engineers, programers, etc all cost X. The cost will always be higher it seems for the most accurate and advanced version of any product.
Just read the new book by Raymond Pryor. He doesn’t reveal any of his clients names. Why do you need to know the players name? It’s a swing to get an idea of where you are, compared to the best of the best.
Great point and one I haven't really thought about from that angle.
AMG will go down in history as a game changer. Determining what happens in 3D instead of drawing lines on 2D images is simply better. End of story.
Thank you!!
Try to ignore the haters, they bring nothing to the table 🚫 you guys are awesome 🔥🔥🔥
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