I like the new chat format with Jake. I'd like to see you do a longer discussion on semi-integrated versus fully integrated routing, and the implications in terms of serviceability, etc.
I have a set of Elite 50D wheels. They are GREAT to ride. The ceramic bearings on my rear wheels went bad pretty quickly and Elite replaced them for free. I received them in about a week. I did buy a replacement freehub just to be sure. You're right about the $30 shipping. Too much. Got it in 3 weeks. So you can factor the potential delay in your decisions on whether you want them. BTW, in my experience, ICAN has the best customer service of Chinese brands.
Everybody talking about pressures and hookless and not mentioning the obvious: most rims, 353 including, have absolutely no features holding the tyre from rolling back towards the centerline. And down into the valley of rim barrel. Once the pressure drops or fluctuates, it's gone for good, everything implodes. Effing Oceangate submarine
interesting move from Look. the RS frames were built inhouse, so looks like they closed or scaled down their factory. Interesting to build up a frame yourself, ideal for Campa ;-)
Hookless must be used very carefully, but I don’t want to use hookless on road. See the amount of blowouts in Flanders or Roubaix. But it is at the moment not up to point
Interesting discussion re: hookless and Elite wheels. My main concern with hookless is how it fails. There's nothing to keep the tire on the 'shelves' and you can have it come off entirely or just bare rim on the road. That could be okay if I'm toodling along, but if I'm at speed or worse, descending.... I don't want to take the chance. I ended up getting a pair of Elite gravel wheels with steel spokes for my road bike because: they're hooked, easy (fingers crossed, they are supposedly sapim) to replace spokes, 45mm deep, and lighter than other wheels costing much more. My prior experience with tubeless with hooked rims is I was able to ride out a flat on a descent until I could safely stop without the tire coming off the hook. I'll take that, even if not guaranteed, over how hookless behaves when there is rapid pressure loss.
Nice. As a Dane, I'm definitely looking into elitewheels. Probably buying some cheap dt swiss for my gravel bike. You should put ltwoo electronic groupset on the look frame. 😜
If I don’t already have the TCR Adv Pro, I will definitely get the 785. An ‘ideal’ bike in mind 👌 As for the hookless, 25mm (measured 26mm on my SLR1 Giant (), and I weigh 61kg), and I ride 3-4times/wk of 30-60km on average, and everything runs smoothly so far. As for the Elite wheels, I’m with you 100%. They’re ’okay’ performance wise, as well.
To the hookless point. I think ETRTO updated their recommendation for rims with 25 internal width to min tire size 30mm not so long ago. It is still just recommendation, but it will be interesting to see how will rim manufactures react to this.
785 Huez isn't competing with the flyweight climbing bikes from other brands, but after seeing the new Factor Ostro is a lot heavier than claimed, I am curious about the weight differences of the paint options. If you have the opportunity to weigh different colourways in the same size it might interest a lot of people. In practice how much of a penalty is white /metallic/gloss vs raw/black/matte? I guess you could do that with TIME as well as LOOK. For myself, I think I'm always going to choose the colours that appeal most and not worry too much about the weight penalty, but the weight weenie builds are still interesting.
To be fair, Bike Radar was not the first, nor the most thorough coverage of the recent hookless debacle. That accolade goes to the team at Escape Collective.
Someone on WeightWeenies or Paceline forum commented that Centaur 12 speed is coming, no mention of when, but if it is true and it does appear soon then that would be exciting to see even if it's not in time to build up the 785. I'm sure Centaur won't exactly be cheap, but it might be an exciting option for mid tier builds?
Great to see Look making a frame at a competitive price,just a shame it doesn't have ZED cranks,but that might double the price. £2400 will be $5000 dollars in New Zealand so still not cheap.
I was just thinking about the 785 Huez the other day and wondered if Look still thought it had a place in their lineup. I have long admired its classic lines. I just wish it still had the Zed crankset.
Really expected Look to go with an integrated seat clamp on the new 785...the external one looked a bit dated on the old one I had. Lovely ride and geometry to suit most riders....as you said most us don't need race bikes !
I'd love to get a brief explainer on the Look naming conventions... I know where I am with TCR vs Defy, or Domane vs Emonda, etc., but am lost with the 7xx numbers and their various variants (Huez, RS, etc.)
Optimum = Endurance (*65) Heuz = Climbing (*85) Blade = Aero (*95) RS = Hi Modulus (now phasing out) The first number in the three digits I believe donates some kind of time frame
I use Tubolight EVO inserts on my road bike for 2 reasons: run-flat capability and tyre security. Fortunately, I've not had to put this to the test yet, however they are also fitted to hooked rims. As a 95kg rider, I'd never entertain running hookless as it takes away so many options let alone the still extremely patchy compatibility issues between certain rims and tyres - not worth the risk for absolutely no benefit to me.
I'm old enough to remember when most rims were hookless, I also remember my tyres blowing off the rim when I was riding and when the bike was sitting in the kitchen. Carbon rim manufacturers are trying to push hookless because they are easier and quicker to make which will result in more profit for them. (not cheaper and safer wheels for us)
For your 785 build I'm happy with mechanical 105 12spd, mainly because I'll be going back to mechanical on my next bike. But curious to see what the best wheels are that get you in within budget.
What a great setup! Go on! Love it. Cheers from bavaria! Can you please the podcast/video from Silca ... Where they chat about the weight of the Sworks and non SWorks
Amazing info guys, thank you so much for this podcast. That Look looks absolutely amazing, they nailed even geometry for me. Really considering buying that frame now. I would like to see in your review if you could take a closer look on that claimed max 32mm tire clearance. Iam using 32mm tires and on my rims they measure 33mm mounted and even my rim itself is 34mm wide It would be awesome to see if there is some wiggle room for clearance. Thank you so much.
Please help! I have been wanting to buy a Time, but earlier you helped me discover that none of their bikes will fit my 85.5 cm seat height. My next best wish is a Look, and this new 785 looks really interesting. About the geometry: You said it has a 73/73 geometry, but on their website it says 73(HT) / 74.5(ST). I reckon these are the correct numbers? In which case i find it perfect. Price: I live in Norway, and their website claim € 2490 for the frameset, and € 3390 for the 105. For me as a customer, would you say the better buy is the frameset or the complete bike? Delivery: There are no Look dealers in Norway, seems like Sweden is the nearest option. Can you order the bike, and ship it to Norway? Or, maybe i could make the trip to your shop and collect it? I am 194 cm / inseam 96.5 cm, so i reckon a XL is pretty obvious. Really like the white colour! Any idea about availability? Thanks!
We can help with that. Can you e-mail the shop and we can talk more. The first shipments arrive in a few weeks. We have 1 XL in black coming, but I do not know availability of the white.
I bought DT Swiss wheels from a "supplier" and a spoke broke about 3 months after buying them. I had to wait just under 2 months and pay shipping both ways for the wheel to be sent away for repair and they didn't even put new tubeless tape on after removing it all to repair the spoke. Compared to that, the Elite wheels situation seems normal.
I truly don't see the problem with those Chinese wheels. Chinese or not when ordering wheels I get a spare freehub. It is a wear part that will be needed order it with the wheels. Actually my Chinese wheels are fine came with spare spokes and had them throw two free hubs in the box.
Has a long time Look owner. Finally you have catch up with the people that know. Can you keep it to yourself please. I like be the only person riding a Look lol.
I have a set of Elite 50D wheels. They’re great. But the support and parts issues are definitely real. I needed a set of new bearings, and it took weeks. You have to buy a whole set of bearings for the whole wheel set instead of individual bearings. They’re great, but you’re right.
@@Mapdec agreed, but there's a difference between servicing and repairing. Having ridden many miles over many years I could count on the fingers of one hand the times I've needed a wheel 'repair' as opposed to the times my wheels have needed a service. Of course Paul - you see the world through what comes into your workshop - which will be customers with problems that they can't/won't fix themselves... These wheels are less than half the price of the branded overpriced ones - I get your frustration of spares availability, especially if you have a customer to deal with, but please don't be so dismissive...
Thats the Emonda frame and fork weight. No one really lists the combined weight. Weirdly whole bikes make more financial sense from the big manufacturers. Look have demonstrated that French engineering flair in the past, huge BB shells and convertable crank arm lengths for a start.
I live in the Philippines and your comments for Elite wheels are the same comments I have European wheel brands that doesn't have a distributors here. While Elite wheels are one of the reputable brands here that has a great customer support. I guess it boils down to where you are, and if the brand is set up logistically to support their products in your area.
Frankly, if anyone is silly enough to buy a product because GCN are sponsored by them, they probably deserve the misfortune of the after-sales support.
What about a return from experience for the hookless in the MTB world? For some reason they already pretty much did the switch to hookless I think. Why? And are they happy with it? Thanks for the good talk.
The geometry of the new 785 looks a little….different. A large (560 top tube) has a steep 74.5 seat angle, 591 stack and 395 reach. Seat angle is great for those like me who have have a very saddle forward position, but that seems like an endurance stack combined with a very racy reach.
Well spotted. The website is differet to our briefing. I am going to cover this in the review. That angle has a few fit implications. It will be interesting to disect.
Look forward to the review. The other thing I would say - is that from looking at their website, it’s the lowest of low key new bike launches I’ve ever seen. No marketing info or promotion what so ever. .
Vittoria has now claimed that the crash from De Gendt was not caused by tyres or wheels, but because he hit a rock or stone, which broke the wheel. Well, if that is the case, is that ok? How often do we see wheels failing in the pro peloton after hitting something? Sure, we see it in Roubaix when there's a puncture, but on smooth roads like in the UAE? When I look at the images of the crash it seems like De Gendt was moving before he crashed, so I would say he flatted, moved, the tyre came off and then it all escalated also destroying the wheel. And if not, there's something wrong about the direction the tech is moving to.
@@Mapdec You mean the Team Sky one? Absolutely! But because many followers of racing will remember that case it's also clear that it doesn't happen a lot, when you google for bike failures on pro races you will get Roubaix, Thomas de Gendt and the Sky TTT failure. It's very interesting to see if this was a single failure or if we will see more cases of breaking wheels / tyres.
A normal person pulls over and stops when they get a puncture, they don't keep riding 45kph until the tires blow off. I run 28mm Vittoria Corsa Pros on my 353s and it's fine. 55psi at the front and 60psi in the rear, and I'm 77kgs.
You're absolutely right. I run the same wheels with Vittoria Corsa NEXT 28mm. I'm lighter than you, so run at 54 psi & 56 psi. I accidentally ran into then over a low kerb at around 30km/h. Like a normal person (ie. Non racer) I stopped to check. Everything was fine this time!
Your take on Elite wheels is why I bought Chris Kings. Parts are readily available and will be for a long time. CK's business model is sustainability instead of disposability.
The Challenge tyre rep told me most of the pro teams that run tubeless run a liner only in the front for safety to keep the tyre on the rim! In case of a flat (Didn't work this time tho) i guess its to save weight & rolling resistance, tyre + liner + sealant must be slower & heavier than tubular's ? I use both for CX, once rode a lap & half on a rear flat tubeless with a liner in before i changed bikes no probs & For the record i would never buy hookless road wheels. Ever.
Mtb tire inserts are completely different from the current road inserts......mtb inserts press the tire bead tightly against the rim to help reduce burping. A pain in the ass to install, by the way. Also, they are used as a volume spacer for your tire, just like volume spacers are used in suspension. That cheap vittoria tire insert isn't gonna do much to help keep the bead of the tire on the rim. You guys keep talking about tire pressure being too high....if anything, I'm sure tire pressure is so low since these pros are tooth picks. And they're pushing the bike to the limit. I believe it is super easy to roll the bead off the tire of the rim. I bet there has been no testing at what it takes to roll a tire off the rim with low pressure to simulate descending down a mountain
I believe a 795 Blade would need Dura Ace and top end wheels from ZIPP , MAVIC or ENVE. Therefore the 785 will be paired with Ultegra groupset (preferably NOT Di2) and MAVIC wheels that retail around £1300 ! As much as I am a fan of Italian parts but the LOOK bikes should NOT have a single Italian part on them (which brings me to my dilemma of the choice of saddle)
What is the advantage of hookless? I only see problems. The fact lotto was even using inserts costing them 1-1,5watts and it still failed spectaculary.
You get to save ~20 grams, the smoother interface between the outer rim edge and tyre saves a watt or two at 45 km/h, and you get the added thrill of knowing the tyre can be pushed off the rim more easily if you do hit a pot hole. Don't forget that the industrialists, shareholders and private equity will be be making extra $$s per wheel, it's a small price to pay for less safety.
I don't even run hookless on my MTB...at road PSI, tubeless, regardless of tire width...there's no way i'd run em on a road bike. I haven't found a tangible reason to. weight, rim strength, aerodynamics are all perfectly fine on hooked. Theres a reason Princeton carbonworks refuses to manufacture hookless. Whether they stay or go, we vote with our money.
I don't think that Hookless Rims and Disc-Brakes are a bad comparison... I don't think Hookless will become as universal as discs are... for too many people the benefit of hookless isn't relevant enough - so I guess that hooked will be relevant for longer than we can see now...
the 785 build - unfortunately Look have changed down their geometry again...the 2022 model had sizing that came close to industry standard and now it's shrunk again! I believe an XL is a 57 top tube, that's tiny for the US markets...and trying to find info on the new bike is ridiculously difficult. We've got Giant flying over every journalist they can cram in a plane for a TCR that has it's cables integrated and lost a few grams...then we have Look with something really interesting and you can't find it!
Look are terrible at product launches. They release things months before anyone has any stock or test product. They loose all the hype by the time the product is actually ready.
What is the problem with hooked rims? I haven’t noticed any. Hookless seem to be trying to solve a non existent problem by creating a new problem. That’s progress. Not.
The system of hooklees rims, tire(-width and -pressure), driver-weight and even temperature make it very sensitive to balance all factors right. E.g. it more or less enforces to check the the pressure before every ride. Who honestly does this? For me hookless is simply not an option, especially as nobody can come up with a convincing reason, why itt should be superior to simpler and more robust systems. I'm biased, but I would like to see the Look built up with Campa Chorus or Centaur.
"Did he hit a bump that exceeded his tyre pressure"??? Will keep that in mind the next time descending an Alp at 55mph...no thanks. There was never anything much wrong with a hooked rim and inner-tube for skinny tyres - tried, tested and perfected for a century. Bike industry needs to get its head around the fact that just because its 'new' it doesn't mean its better.
I’m a long time subscriber to both your and the GCN channel. I have to say though I’m starting to get frustrated with your look how bad they are and how great we are content. I rarely see GCN do this to other non sponsored brands and never to other channels. We are a small industry. Let’s lift us all up. Be better please.
Great video, bet Elite ask you to host their spares, 😂 re Hookless v investing comments, as 100kg road rider would never use, as always fear would pop on a decent
@@Mapdec true, but f.e. the emonda or the TCR have a more recognisable frame with unique looks. By the way I think the Lappiere Xelius and Koga Kimera are both good bikes too in this segment.
Hookless tyres on an MTB would only last until the first corner and it’ll be off the rim. If it’s not safe for an off-road bike why would you use it on roads where the risk of falling could end with your head getting smushed by a truck wheel or something. It only exists for the sake of making the manufacturing process cheaper with safety not being important.
Don’t really agree with your point on elitewheels because they have problems any growing brand would have : it’s normal they don’t have service centers everywhere yet, it’s normal local dealers don’t have spare pieces in stock yet... Every now established brand had to go through this, and yes the geographical distance makes shipping times longer, but you pay a pretty steep price for this convenience
It’s not so much that, as they just don’t even carry spare parts to buy. I’d be happy to wait a week for a part shipped from China. Truth is, they just don’t make them, hold the stock or care about supporting older models. The whole business model is to launch and hype new models.
@@Mapdec i didn't get this part of the conversation. I ordered a set of drive 50d a few days ago and was rather reassured by the number of spare parts available on their website but if this only applies to the latest model, i guess i will discover that the hard way in a few years
@@mathieuderooster it’s ok. Remember. Here in a bike shop we get the owners and f the wheels come to us for help when things start to wear out 2-3 seasons later.
You gotta be joking hyping up another bike release thats not different to any other, rides the same and cost more than any other.. its not hype stop it ALREADY...
£3.8k is “a nice price” bike shops should be campaigning for cheaper prices not being happy with nearly £4k for a bike. It won’t be long and a large portion of the uk will be priced out of the sport they love
Sadly as bike prices have gone up, so has our and factores etc rent, energy, wages etc. I think they call it inflation. However, this is a sign that inflation is slowing and brands are getting control of prices. I think we are all shocked that the frame is £2400 and not £3400 to be honest.
Sorry but, you guys are pretty much wrong about everything you said about Elitewheels. Probably more research before you throw opinions out there. Also, 30 dollars for shipping from china is expensive to you? I ship stuff across the US for that much. Shipping doesn't AT ALL take that long btw. They ship faster than most domestic companies across US for me. I'll take elite wheels ANY DAY over something like stuck in the past design corimas.
Yep. Fit the right tyres, run the correct pressure and they work fine. Problem lies in getting those two things right as it requires a tiny bit of research.
Yes, but car tyres have a steel bead that means the tyre has to be fitted with machines and huge force. They're also _much_ wider at lower pressures and the forces acting to push them off them rim are vastly lower.
The hookless thing...to me, for road, it's an emergent technology. BUT until we hear otherwise, I am treating the hookles hate with the same scepticism as all those claims that disc rotors were like knives. As for Hansen, he's a plonker who makes carbon clogs.
I would say that hookless has a niche user in mind who needs to be aware of the set up. It is being forced into a mass market by Zipp, Giant, Pacenti, and many others. The mass market has no need for it.
@@Mapdec It's a shame for Zipp, Giant, Pacenti, and others to do this. I'd throw Enve into that lot as well. Agreed, there is no need for hookless but plenty of downsides. These companies are preying on the unaware cyclist... and have lost my respect.
I like the new chat format with Jake.
I'd like to see you do a longer discussion on semi-integrated versus fully integrated routing, and the implications in terms of serviceability, etc.
I see no advantage in hookless and nothing but risk.
And reducing costs at the manufacturer side at the expense of customer.
I have a set of Elite 50D wheels. They are GREAT to ride. The ceramic bearings on my rear wheels went bad pretty quickly and Elite replaced them for free. I received them in about a week. I did buy a replacement freehub just to be sure. You're right about the $30 shipping. Too much. Got it in 3 weeks. So you can factor the potential delay in your decisions on whether you want them. BTW, in my experience, ICAN has the best customer service of Chinese brands.
Everybody talking about pressures and hookless and not mentioning the obvious: most rims, 353 including, have absolutely no features holding the tyre from rolling back towards the centerline. And down into the valley of rim barrel. Once the pressure drops or fluctuates, it's gone for good, everything implodes. Effing Oceangate submarine
Hmm. If there was only some type of hook on the interior of the rim that could retain the tire bead...
@@bent4116 yes, like that notch Mavic puts on their hookless.
or Enve... Are there reports of any blowouts that have not been on Zipps?@@feedbackzaloop
The LOOK 785 is very much like an Orca of the 2019-ish vintage. That's good, because I have one of those on rim brakes!
interesting move from Look. the RS frames were built inhouse, so looks like they closed or scaled down their factory. Interesting to build up a frame yourself, ideal for Campa ;-)
Hookless must be used very carefully, but I don’t want to use hookless on road. See the amount of blowouts in Flanders or Roubaix.
But it is at the moment not up to point
Interesting discussion re: hookless and Elite wheels. My main concern with hookless is how it fails. There's nothing to keep the tire on the 'shelves' and you can have it come off entirely or just bare rim on the road. That could be okay if I'm toodling along, but if I'm at speed or worse, descending.... I don't want to take the chance. I ended up getting a pair of Elite gravel wheels with steel spokes for my road bike because: they're hooked, easy (fingers crossed, they are supposedly sapim) to replace spokes, 45mm deep, and lighter than other wheels costing much more. My prior experience with tubeless with hooked rims is I was able to ride out a flat on a descent until I could safely stop without the tire coming off the hook. I'll take that, even if not guaranteed, over how hookless behaves when there is rapid pressure loss.
Sram force group with power meter for the build
Nice work, gents. I really like the format. Cheers.
I really like this format, well done.
I want to see Bora wto wheels and record 12 mechanical
Ohhh. Bora. nice.
Nice. As a Dane, I'm definitely looking into elitewheels. Probably buying some cheap dt swiss for my gravel bike.
You should put ltwoo electronic groupset on the look frame. 😜
That would break the internet
They say you can have Elitewheels rims with DT hubs now
If I don’t already have the TCR Adv Pro, I will definitely get the 785. An ‘ideal’ bike in mind 👌
As for the hookless, 25mm (measured 26mm on my SLR1 Giant (), and I weigh 61kg), and I ride 3-4times/wk of 30-60km on average, and everything runs smoothly so far.
As for the Elite wheels, I’m with you 100%. They’re ’okay’ performance wise, as well.
To the hookless point. I think ETRTO updated their recommendation for rims with 25 internal width to min tire size 30mm not so long ago. It is still just recommendation, but it will be interesting to see how will rim manufactures react to this.
785 Huez isn't competing with the flyweight climbing bikes from other brands, but after seeing the new Factor Ostro is a lot heavier than claimed, I am curious about the weight differences of the paint options. If you have the opportunity to weigh different colourways in the same size it might interest a lot of people. In practice how much of a penalty is white /metallic/gloss vs raw/black/matte? I guess you could do that with TIME as well as LOOK.
For myself, I think I'm always going to choose the colours that appeal most and not worry too much about the weight penalty, but the weight weenie builds are still interesting.
To be fair, Bike Radar was not the first, nor the most thorough coverage of the recent hookless debacle. That accolade goes to the team at Escape Collective.
Escape Collective constant nagging about joining their membership makes me want to puke.
Someone on WeightWeenies or Paceline forum commented that Centaur 12 speed is coming, no mention of when, but if it is true and it does appear soon then that would be exciting to see even if it's not in time to build up the 785. I'm sure Centaur won't exactly be cheap, but it might be an exciting option for mid tier builds?
Great to see Look making a frame at a competitive price,just a shame it doesn't have ZED cranks,but that might double the price.
£2400 will be $5000 dollars in New Zealand so still not cheap.
I was just thinking about the 785 Huez the other day and wondered if Look still thought it had a place in their lineup. I have long admired its classic lines. I just wish it still had the Zed crankset.
I agree , we live in Europe , NO POINT buying something from another country and waiting three weeks !!!
You order spares with the wheelset. The extra cost is nothing on the whole. Rgr
Really expected Look to go with an integrated seat clamp on the new 785...the external one looked a bit dated on the old one I had. Lovely ride and geometry to suit most riders....as you said most us don't need race bikes !
I'd love to get a brief explainer on the Look naming conventions... I know where I am with TCR vs Defy, or Domane vs Emonda, etc., but am lost with the 7xx numbers and their various variants (Huez, RS, etc.)
Optimum = Endurance (*65)
Heuz = Climbing (*85)
Blade = Aero (*95)
RS = Hi Modulus (now phasing out)
The first number in the three digits I believe donates some kind of time frame
Look has Time frames?
Easy to create misunderstanding here,
maybe you mean series😀
Love these podcast style videos, super watchable and not at all boring unlike some other cycling podcasts. Keep the content coming
Glad you like them!
I use Tubolight EVO inserts on my road bike for 2 reasons: run-flat capability and tyre security. Fortunately, I've not had to put this to the test yet, however they are also fitted to hooked rims.
As a 95kg rider, I'd never entertain running hookless as it takes away so many options let alone the still extremely patchy compatibility issues between certain rims and tyres - not worth the risk for absolutely no benefit to me.
I'm old enough to remember when most rims were hookless, I also remember my tyres blowing off the rim when I was riding and when the bike was sitting in the kitchen. Carbon rim manufacturers are trying to push hookless because they are easier and quicker to make which will result in more profit for them. (not cheaper and safer wheels for us)
Love the news round up
A most interesting, informative, and fun fireside chat guys. Thank you. Oh, and it probably doesn't fit the £1.2K budget, but Chorus groupset pls.
For your 785 build I'm happy with mechanical 105 12spd, mainly because I'll be going back to mechanical on my next bike. But curious to see what the best wheels are that get you in within budget.
What a great setup! Go on! Love it. Cheers from bavaria! Can you please the podcast/video from Silca ... Where they chat about the weight of the Sworks and non SWorks
The video with Josh talking about frame selection:
ua-cam.com/video/RdCnBWTSK64/v-deo.html
Lightbicycle is another one… very good wheel and great consistency in production
Amazing info guys, thank you so much for this podcast. That Look looks absolutely amazing, they nailed even geometry for me. Really considering buying that frame now. I would like to see in your review if you could take a closer look on that claimed max 32mm tire clearance. Iam using 32mm tires and on my rims they measure 33mm mounted and even my rim itself is 34mm wide It would be awesome to see if there is some wiggle room for clearance. Thank you so much.
I’ll put this in the full review for sure.
@@Mapdec Amazing, than you so much. Looking forward to review.
Please help!
I have been wanting to buy a Time, but earlier you helped me discover that none of their bikes will fit my 85.5 cm seat height.
My next best wish is a Look, and this new 785 looks really interesting.
About the geometry:
You said it has a 73/73 geometry, but on their website it says 73(HT) / 74.5(ST).
I reckon these are the correct numbers?
In which case i find it perfect.
Price:
I live in Norway, and their website claim € 2490 for the frameset, and € 3390 for the 105.
For me as a customer, would you say the better buy is the frameset or the complete bike?
Delivery:
There are no Look dealers in Norway, seems like Sweden is the nearest option.
Can you order the bike, and ship it to Norway?
Or, maybe i could make the trip to your shop and collect it?
I am 194 cm / inseam 96.5 cm, so i reckon a XL is pretty obvious.
Really like the white colour!
Any idea about availability?
Thanks!
We can help with that. Can you e-mail the shop and we can talk more. The first shipments arrive in a few weeks. We have 1 XL in black coming, but I do not know availability of the white.
Want to let you know that i got their 765 from last year and have zero regrets. Love the bike and ride quality.
I bought DT Swiss wheels from a "supplier" and a spoke broke about 3 months after buying them.
I had to wait just under 2 months and pay shipping both ways for the wheel to be sent away for repair and they didn't even put new tubeless tape on after removing it all to repair the spoke.
Compared to that, the Elite wheels situation seems normal.
What the hell! We could have done that while you wait almost.
I'm still waiting for more details on the new Time Fluidity which you teased a couple months ago 😋
I think we will see the Scylon first.
@@Mapdecoh no…another year waiting for a new endurance bike from Time 😢😂
Hi mapdec, I see you have some podcast episodes on spotify, could you upload these episode to spotify aswell?
I'd love listening to these on the go
Maybe. I’m actually thinking about bringing the Self Coached Cyclist podcast onto UA-cam
I truly don't see the problem with those Chinese wheels. Chinese or not when ordering wheels I get a spare freehub. It is a wear part that will be needed order it with the wheels. Actually my Chinese wheels are fine came with spare spokes and had them throw two free hubs in the box.
New look frame with ultegra mechanical and Reynolds rims. May put you over the cap but would be solid!
It would work.
Has a long time Look owner. Finally you have catch up with the people that know. Can you keep it to yourself please. I like be the only person riding a Look lol.
I have a set of Elite 50D wheels. They’re great.
But the support and parts issues are definitely real. I needed a set of new bearings, and it took weeks. You have to buy a whole set of bearings for the whole wheel set instead of individual bearings.
They’re great, but you’re right.
you know you don't have to buy bearings from elite right?
Thanks for sharing
Look at Hambini's site - he lists the bearing sizes - all very standard...
Don't really know what Mapdec is making such a fuss about?
@@chrisb5824 Hambini can’t sell you a worn out axle, a lost pawl spring or a broken spoke
@@Mapdec agreed, but there's a difference between servicing and repairing.
Having ridden many miles over many years I could count on the fingers of one hand the times I've needed a wheel 'repair' as opposed to the times my wheels have needed a service. Of course Paul - you see the world through what comes into your workshop - which will be customers with problems that they can't/won't fix themselves... These wheels are less than half the price of the branded overpriced ones - I get your frustration of spares availability, especially if you have a customer to deal with, but please don't be so dismissive...
I’d like to see the 765 model :-)
We have lots of videos on the 765. Enjoy.
Thats the Emonda frame and fork weight. No one really lists the combined weight. Weirdly whole bikes make more financial sense from the big manufacturers. Look have demonstrated that French engineering flair in the past, huge BB shells and convertable crank arm lengths for a start.
May be see if it’s possible to build the new Look 785 with an electronic group set? That would be a good challenge for £1200.
What is the weight of the Look 785 frameset?
970g. More info in full review. I am not sure what size this relates to.
@@Mapdec Can you remind the weight of the Time AdH'23, please?
I’ll cover all of this in the full review.
Do you not like Bitex hibs? I am getting some wheels built up with them
They are ok. Spares can be had off eBay in almost every country.
I live in the Philippines and your comments for Elite wheels are the same comments I have European wheel brands that doesn't have a distributors here. While Elite wheels are one of the reputable brands here that has a great customer support. I guess it boils down to where you are, and if the brand is set up logistically to support their products in your area.
interesting. do you see a different website to us? do you see support docs, and parts?
Frankly, if anyone is silly enough to buy a product because GCN are sponsored by them, they probably deserve the misfortune of the after-sales support.
What about a return from experience for the hookless in the MTB world? For some reason they already pretty much did the switch to hookless I think. Why? And are they happy with it? Thanks for the good talk.
I think MTB really wanted the low tyre pressures and they appreciated the stronger rim walls.
Interesting
The geometry of the new 785 looks a little….different. A large (560 top tube) has a steep 74.5 seat angle, 591 stack and 395 reach. Seat angle is great for those like me who have have a very saddle forward position, but that seems like an endurance stack combined with a very racy reach.
Well spotted. The website is differet to our briefing. I am going to cover this in the review. That angle has a few fit implications. It will be interesting to disect.
Look forward to the review. The other thing I would say - is that from looking at their website, it’s the lowest of low key new bike launches I’ve ever seen. No marketing info or promotion what so ever. .
When are you going to test ride the 765 gravel? If you’re struggling to find one… turn around.
Elite has a factory in the States too.
Vittoria has now claimed that the crash from De Gendt was not caused by tyres or wheels, but because he hit a rock or stone, which broke the wheel. Well, if that is the case, is that ok? How often do we see wheels failing in the pro peloton after hitting something? Sure, we see it in Roubaix when there's a puncture, but on smooth roads like in the UAE?
When I look at the images of the crash it seems like De Gendt was moving before he crashed, so I would say he flatted, moved, the tyre came off and then it all escalated also destroying the wheel. And if not, there's something wrong about the direction the tech is moving to.
Do you remember when the Shimano tri spoke collapsed in the sprint?
@@Mapdec You mean the Team Sky one? Absolutely! But because many followers of racing will remember that case it's also clear that it doesn't happen a lot, when you google for bike failures on pro races you will get Roubaix, Thomas de Gendt and the Sky TTT failure.
It's very interesting to see if this was a single failure or if we will see more cases of breaking wheels / tyres.
For a second I thought GCN had gone back to Elite for the bottles because of the Camelbak delay debacle 😂
Look needs an odd number of colour options. 5 is better than 4. More likely to build a unique bike.
I have no issues with lower pressures and hookless, but just leave the hooks on the road wheels, just no need for them.
A normal person pulls over and stops when they get a puncture, they don't keep riding 45kph until the tires blow off.
I run 28mm Vittoria Corsa Pros on my 353s and it's fine. 55psi at the front and 60psi in the rear, and I'm 77kgs.
sounds perfect.
You're absolutely right. I run the same wheels with Vittoria Corsa NEXT 28mm. I'm lighter than you, so run at 54 psi & 56 psi. I accidentally ran into then over a low kerb at around 30km/h. Like a normal person (ie. Non racer) I stopped to check. Everything was fine this time!
Your take on Elite wheels is why I bought Chris Kings. Parts are readily available and will be for a long time. CK's business model is sustainability instead of disposability.
Great point. I might steal that line. 🙏
The Challenge tyre rep told me most of the pro teams that run tubeless run a liner only in the front for safety to keep the tyre on the rim! In case of a flat (Didn't work this time tho) i guess its to save weight & rolling resistance, tyre + liner + sealant must be slower & heavier than tubular's ?
I use both for CX, once rode a lap & half on a rear flat tubeless with a liner in before i changed bikes no probs
& For the record i would never buy hookless road wheels.
Ever.
Not fully agree that most of the Chinese wheels are disposable regarding spares. The approach from e.g. Light Bicycle is a total different one. Agree?
They are different. They build on western brand hubs and spokes.
Exactly. Keep up the great content! 😊
Mtb tire inserts are completely different from the current road inserts......mtb inserts press the tire bead tightly against the rim to help reduce burping. A pain in the ass to install, by the way. Also, they are used as a volume spacer for your tire, just like volume spacers are used in suspension. That cheap vittoria tire insert isn't gonna do much to help keep the bead of the tire on the rim. You guys keep talking about tire pressure being too high....if anything, I'm sure tire pressure is so low since these pros are tooth picks. And they're pushing the bike to the limit. I believe it is super easy to roll the bead off the tire of the rim. I bet there has been no testing at what it takes to roll a tire off the rim with low pressure to simulate descending down a mountain
You can become Elite wheel representative for the Uk 😁…so you can also put such wheels on the Look to keep the budget 😉
Or at least a Service Center! Rgr
I believe a 795 Blade would need Dura Ace and top end wheels from ZIPP , MAVIC or ENVE. Therefore the 785 will be paired with Ultegra groupset (preferably NOT Di2) and MAVIC wheels that retail around £1300 ! As much as I am a fan of Italian parts but the LOOK bikes should NOT have a single Italian part on them (which brings me to my dilemma of the choice of saddle)
Sadly Mechanical Ultegra is in its dying days. The latest one is Di2 only
I would like to see that challenge to build a top quality bike for the extras- price 1200 pounds.
What is the advantage of hookless? I only see problems. The fact lotto was even using inserts costing them 1-1,5watts and it still failed spectaculary.
You get to save ~20 grams, the smoother interface between the outer rim edge and tyre saves a watt or two at 45 km/h, and you get the added thrill of knowing the tyre can be pushed off the rim more easily if you do hit a pot hole. Don't forget that the industrialists, shareholders and private equity will be be making extra $$s per wheel, it's a small price to pay for less safety.
I don't even run hookless on my MTB...at road PSI, tubeless, regardless of tire width...there's no way i'd run em on a road bike. I haven't found a tangible reason to. weight, rim strength, aerodynamics are all perfectly fine on hooked. Theres a reason Princeton carbonworks refuses to manufacture hookless. Whether they stay or go, we vote with our money.
very true, money talks
I don't think that Hookless Rims and Disc-Brakes are a bad comparison... I don't think Hookless will become as universal as discs are... for too many people the benefit of hookless isn't relevant enough - so I guess that hooked will be relevant for longer than we can see now...
the new SRAM red e tap....
When a small bicycle shop actually captioned their content that GCN decided not to is telling.
the 785 build - unfortunately Look have changed down their geometry again...the 2022 model had sizing that came close to industry standard and now it's shrunk again! I believe an XL is a 57 top tube, that's tiny for the US markets...and trying to find info on the new bike is ridiculously difficult. We've got Giant flying over every journalist they can cram in a plane for a TCR that has it's cables integrated and lost a few grams...then we have Look with something really interesting and you can't find it!
Look are terrible at product launches. They release things months before anyone has any stock or test product. They loose all the hype by the time the product is actually ready.
What is the problem with hooked rims? I haven’t noticed any. Hookless seem to be trying to solve a non existent problem by creating a new problem. That’s progress. Not.
I'll stick to tubular tyres love them pro teams are using them for the cobbled races for safety
The system of hooklees rims, tire(-width and -pressure), driver-weight and even temperature make it very sensitive to balance all factors right. E.g. it more or less enforces to check the the pressure before every ride. Who honestly does this? For me hookless is simply not an option, especially as nobody can come up with a convincing reason, why itt should be superior to simpler and more robust systems.
I'm biased, but I would like to see the Look built up with Campa Chorus or Centaur.
Oh. Chrous is a good shout.
Look build challenge of 1200 quid; does that including the labour cost of building such bikes?
Yeah. Factor in about 2 hours.
"Did he hit a bump that exceeded his tyre pressure"??? Will keep that in mind the next time descending an Alp at 55mph...no thanks. There was never anything much wrong with a hooked rim and inner-tube for skinny tyres - tried, tested and perfected for a century. Bike industry needs to get its head around the fact that just because its 'new' it doesn't mean its better.
Elite sends spare parts of you need them.
I don't mind anyone who wants to use hookless using it, but don't even think about making me use it by offering no alternatives in the future!
Simple fact about hookless: there is ONLY downside for the consumer. Zero upside
So, if you can't get a new part instantly, it's disposable? One of the many problems with our society, instant gratification.
If you can’t get a new part at all it is, defo.
Hookless - Seems like the reduction in cost benefits the manufacturer. I can't see any benefit to the average rider, but a lot more risk.
Correct! Rgr
I’m a long time subscriber to both your and the GCN channel. I have to say though I’m starting to get frustrated with your look how bad they are and how great we are content. I rarely see GCN do this to other non sponsored brands and never to other channels. We are a small industry. Let’s lift us all up. Be better please.
SRAM force groupset and hyper wheels.
Great video, bet Elite ask you to host their spares, 😂 re Hookless v investing comments, as 100kg road rider would never use, as always fear would pop on a decent
The look 785 looks a bit boring. If you removed the look logo's it would not stand out at all. Where the look 795 looks absolutely fantastic.
Yes, I agree and that has always been the point of the Huez, just quiet understated quality. No Fancy tech or geo, just elegant.
@@Mapdec true, but f.e. the emonda or the TCR have a more recognisable frame with unique looks. By the way I think the Lappiere Xelius and Koga Kimera are both good bikes too in this segment.
Hookless tyres on an MTB would only last until the first corner and it’ll be off the rim. If it’s not safe for an off-road bike why would you use it on roads where the risk of falling could end with your head getting smushed by a truck wheel or something. It only exists for the sake of making the manufacturing process cheaper with safety not being important.
This is a little silly. It’s been used off road for ages and no complaints. It’s only road where there is some concern.
Zipp could make anything and it would sell. They're gifted that way.
Gotta hand it to them. They have built a desirable brand.
What's the issue?🤷🏼♂️.
Don’t really agree with your point on elitewheels because they have problems any growing brand would have : it’s normal they don’t have service centers everywhere yet, it’s normal local dealers don’t have spare pieces in stock yet... Every now established brand had to go through this, and yes the geographical distance makes shipping times longer, but you pay a pretty steep price for this convenience
It’s not so much that, as they just don’t even carry spare parts to buy. I’d be happy to wait a week for a part shipped from China. Truth is, they just don’t make them, hold the stock or care about supporting older models. The whole business model is to launch and hype new models.
@@Mapdec i didn't get this part of the conversation. I ordered a set of drive 50d a few days ago and was rather reassured by the number of spare parts available on their website but if this only applies to the latest model, i guess i will discover that the hard way in a few years
@@mathieuderooster it’s ok. Remember. Here in a bike shop we get the owners and f the wheels come to us for help when things start to wear out 2-3 seasons later.
You gotta be joking hyping up another bike release thats not different to any other, rides the same and cost more than any other.. its not hype stop it ALREADY...
£3.8k is “a nice price” bike shops should be campaigning for cheaper prices not being happy with nearly £4k for a bike. It won’t be long and a large portion of the uk will be priced out of the sport they love
Sadly as bike prices have gone up, so has our and factores etc rent, energy, wages etc. I think they call it inflation. However, this is a sign that inflation is slowing and brands are getting control of prices. I think we are all shocked that the frame is £2400 and not £3400 to be honest.
Sram
I really can't see single reason to ride hookless other than it comes with the bike.
Sorry but, you guys are pretty much wrong about everything you said about Elitewheels. Probably more research before you throw opinions out there.
Also, 30 dollars for shipping from china is expensive to you? I ship stuff across the US for that much.
Shipping doesn't AT ALL take that long btw. They ship faster than most domestic companies across US for me.
I'll take elite wheels ANY DAY over something like stuck in the past design corimas.
We work on dozens of these. Hence the frustration
Just got a new bike with hookless Mmmmmmmm, aren't most car tyres hookless?
Yep. Fit the right tyres, run the correct pressure and they work fine. Problem lies in getting those two things right as it requires a tiny bit of research.
Yes, but car tyres have a steel bead that means the tyre has to be fitted with machines and huge force. They're also _much_ wider at lower pressures and the forces acting to push them off them rim are vastly lower.
The hookless thing...to me, for road, it's an emergent technology. BUT until we hear otherwise, I am treating the hookles hate with the same scepticism as all those claims that disc rotors were like knives. As for Hansen, he's a plonker who makes carbon clogs.
😂
Hookless is for suckers. It's ok to say it, we all know.
I would say that hookless has a niche user in mind who needs to be aware of the set up. It is being forced into a mass market by Zipp, Giant, Pacenti, and many others. The mass market has no need for it.
@@Mapdec It's a shame for Zipp, Giant, Pacenti, and others to do this. I'd throw Enve into that lot as well. Agreed, there is no need for hookless but plenty of downsides. These companies are preying on the unaware cyclist... and have lost my respect.
Hambini is a cheapskate
Sram