SEGA's Mysterious Deleted Video Game Character - (A NiGHTS documentary) ~Searching For Selph~
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 лип 2024
- In this video I explore the mystery surrounding the deleted character 'Selph' from SEGA's video game 'NiGHTS into Dreams'. As part documentary and part theory-discussion, this video details the chronological history regarding the search for the character, as well as covering some of the more wild and crazy theories linked to him.
My overall aim with this video is to document what has happened up to this point, and to help push the discussion surrounding Selph forward so that it can broaden the scope of the search.
Video Chapters:
00:00 - Intro & Info
01:37 - Chapter 1 - Know Thyself - The Initial Discovery
06:16 - Chapter 2 - Selfs and Staffs - The First Fan-Theories
10:43 - Chapter 3 - November 2007 - Iizuka Interview & The Beta Demo
18:31 - Chapter 4 - Hidden - Naka Interview
23:06 - Chapter 5 - Sky - Unused Audio Files
27:31 - Chapter 6 - My Name Is - Selph's Name
32:06 - Chapter 7 - Chaos Theory - Character Visual And My Crazy Speculation
38:05 - Chapter 8 - Goldrush - Discoveries From The 2021 NiGHTS Datamine Project
48:25 - Chapter 9 - Heads Up! - 3D Emblem Head Theories
1:02:56 - Chapter 10 - Beyond The Dream Paradox - Our Options For Continuing The Search
1:14:33 - Outro & Thank You's
-----
Important Links:
Gremmar's Page on 'Selph/Self' - sites.google.com/view/nidrep/...
2021 NiGHTS Datamine Website (Gremmar) - sites.google.com/view/nidrep/...
NiGHTS Discord Server - / discord
Gremmar Warden on Twitter - / gremmarwarden
Ketrin on Twitter - / ketdarkdragon
Andreas Scholl on Twitter - / andreasscholl09
Amy Wright on Twitter - / amywrightdev
GigglyMan on Twitter - / gibi74897221
DiGi Valentine on Twitter - / digi_valentine
-----
Songs Used:
(from NiGHTS into Dreams)
D'Force Master
Know Thyself!
Gate of your Dreams
After the Dream
Under Construction
NiGHTS
NiGHTS 2-Player Mode Intro Jingle
(from NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams)
Crystal Choir: Labyrinth Guide
Dreams Dreams (Located Link Mix Instrumental)
Al-Di-La: Lavender Ver.
EVENT-Solitude
Merry Memory Go Round: Forest Adventure
EVENT-Encounter
EVENT-Suspicion
EVENT-Belief
Sweeping Seashore: Marine Escape
When The Night Falls
Precious Orgel
-----
Sources & Resources:
HD NiGHTS Remaster (2012) Image Viewing Tool (Gremmar) - github.com/mg35/NightsImageTool
SEGA Saturn NiGHTS (1996) Texture Explorer Tool (Gremmar) - github.com/mg35/NiDTextureExp...
NiGHTS Ending Image Decompressor Tool (Amy Wright) - github.com/foreverWIP/NEID
BinxelView Binary Image Explorer (Brad Smith) - github.com/bbbradsmith/binxel...
Original Japanese NiGHTS Website (Sonic Team) - nights.sega.jp/nights1/
Hidden Palace - hiddenpalace.org/Main_Page
NiGHTS E3 Beta Demo (Hidden Palace) - tinyurl.com/yc5my2fm
PlayStation 2 Press Discs & Prototypes (Internet Archive) - archive.org/details/ps2pressp...
Hidden Palace Prototype Collection (Internet Archive) - archive.org/details/hiddenpalace
Takashi Iizuka 2007 Interview (Last Minute Continue) - lastminutecontinue.com/podcas...
Game Preservation article (ArsTechnica) - arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/0...
Square Enix and Game Preservation article (Game Informer) - www.gameinformer.com/e3-2019/...
Sonic Amateur Games Expo 2021 - sagexpo.org/
Game Catalogue II footage, NiGHTS Reveal Conference 1996 (kukun kun) - • ゲームカタログ２ 1996年04月16日
Game Catalogue II footage, Sonic Team Offices 1996 (kukun kun) - • ゲームカタログ２ 1996年07月02日
Sonic & Knuckles Playthrough (RickyC, World Of LongPlays) - • Mega Drive Longplay [0...
NiGHTS cameo in Phantasy Star Online Blue Burst (Shadonicz) - • PSO:BB - Let's Play#11...
NiGHTS E3 and Beta Development footage, from CD Consoles Magazine (Freckleslam) - • Video
NiGHTS 2-Player Mode (Retro Dad & Modern Lad) - • Nights into dreams and...
Sonic 1 Prototype stream (Hidden Palace) - • Sonic 1 Prototype Stre...
Sonic 3 Prototype stream (Hidden Palace) - • Sonic Month 2019 Strea...
Clay Fighter footage, from Project Deluge stream (Hidden Palace) - • Project Deluge Stream ...
'L is Real', Luigi in Mario 64 beta discovery (Franghis Khan) - • 4chan Discovers Luigi ...
NiGHTS into Dreams HD Remaster on Steam:
- store.steampowered.com/app/21...
_________
#NiGHTSintoDreams #SEGA #SonicTeam - Ігри
![URIEN (Street Fighter) - Who Dat? [Character Review]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uBC0X8QK0cY/mqdefault.jpg)
imagine wanting to make another boss but time constraints made you cut it, and the team never really told anyone about it, and this random guy is like "hey remember that boss you cut" out of nowhere. thats so funny to me
"How did you- how- how even- who sent you??? Where did you come from???"
@@jelly_4_brainz You can feel the "what the fuck?" in his voice
(oh Shit, WHO FUCKING LEAKED MY CONCEPT) I can only imagine in his head
Iizuka really said "Who told you that"
Lol, man must have been so confused. I've met Iizuka a few times since then, he's always been really cool with us. He's a good guy ~
"Who is 'they'?" he asks, threateningly
@@DiGiValentine Yo Digi, May you please make a video that discusses the bosses of nights? I ask you that. It would been really nice you know?
fr lizuka was mad lol
Reala's sound file sounds like he drunkenly challenges NiGHTS to a fight and falls down a set of stairs, knocking over a display of guitars along the way.
Nights: Reala never was the same after I beat him in a fight.
Reala, drunk as hell: FiGHT mE
That section of the damn video has me CACKLING
Reala: **kicks open Nights's basement while Nights is watching old King Of The Hill reruns**
Reala: yA kNOw... I-I-I GoT a ProBLeM WiTh YOu, BudDY!
Nights: Reala, normally I'd fight you... But you look like you need to get some rest.
Reala: YOuRE gONna inSuLt mY lOokS?! ThAt DoES iT! iVe hAd pEAs bEfORE! puT eM u-
**trips down stairs and crashes into Nights's guitar collection, inconveniently placed next to the staircase**
Nights: **goes blind with rage, grabs Reala's bottle of Jack Daniels and beats him with it**
@@SpiralPoliFemboy you are my favorite person oh my god
@@localkinnie5370 Thanks man. You're cool too.
I'm still in the middle of the video, but the "Why do you know of Selph?" gave me chills. To bring such shock to someone that they respond to you personally in a second language, that HE starts asking YOU the questions. That was so awesome. I don't know why it's so cool to me.
Maybe Self was inside ourselves the whole time.
Bravo. You win awards.
The true Selph was the friends we made along the way. XD
@@creativeusername7951 I think this is what playing Sega games along the years is about
Oh ma gah... DATA MINE ME BROTHER!!!
Yeah our Ego boss
Iizuka's reaction is interesting, in that "Selph" must have been so present and memorable enough in his mind that he was able to recall exactly what the person asking the question was talking about despite potentially not having been in any conversation relating to Selph in years otherwise. It definitely implies that Selph had a more relevant role in the plot had he/she not been scrapped.
Given that it was scrapped because the story veered away from it + the name + the inspiration, "a battle with your true self" was probably the concept, and it was probably something people who worked on it really were passionate about.
Iizuka is a fairly forgetful fellow too, from what I can tell, so it certainly must have been a big deal.
pro tip: if u don’t know whether it could be he/she just use they. looks better and just is better 👍🏽
I think people are overthinking it. If Self was an intended boss, with name assets created for them, it isn't weird that a dev remembered that. Planning on including the character during part of development would be enough to remember it, even if the actual progress made wasn't much. Also, the question was asked several times before he responded.
@@orca042 You know, that sounds reasonable, and yet the number of times people have asked developers about things only to get an "I don't remember" seems to indicate otherwise. I'd imagine the sleep deprivation they go through really messes up memory encoding.
That interview is so hilarious. The translator getting confused at the word deleted. Iizuka getting scared that Kevin must have read his mind somehow, which made Kevin immediately feel awkward. When he said "Who is they?" and assumed that Yuji Naka must have let it slip somehow, completely unaware that people would look through the code. And the translator saying "Is it okay if I tell them in English" as if no one else would be able to translate their conversation, and that speaking in Japanese would be enough to keep it confidential. And how they we're all so disorientated by the topic, that they completely avoided answering the actual question of what Selph "looked like"
"As if no one else would be able to translate."
You must be pretty young. In the 90s and 00s the idea of people translating random interviews was literally unheard of. Hell, even in the world of politics where translation errors have lead to people straight up dying, it was uncommon for someone to bring along a counter/confirmation translator, so no random middle management dude talking about a video game would even have been able to comprehend the idea that 20 years later instant translation technology would exsist or that anyone would waste such a precious resource on a video game interview.
@@NoESanity "Let me describe exactly what you're referencing but I'll pretend you're stupid and referenced it by mistake so I can seem so much smarter than you"
My entire comment was reminiscing on how this event took place at a point in time where this status quo was changing. Datamining, community translators, lost media hunters, all of these were concepts that they weren't prepared for at the time, but are considered commonplace today. Especially in the golden age of anime fan translations. They thought in the old fashioned way exactly like you said, resulting in them becoming surprised to find the times were changing and their previously solid assumptions were false. Meanwhile a modern interview would anticipate all of these things naturally. I can't tell what you would even think I'm trying to say with my comment if you didn't realize that's the whole point, you must be pretty young or something.
NiGHTS fans are probably one of the most dedicated people on the planet, I like NiGHTS but not as much to spend so much time researching on this elusive character.
Yeah this is nuts; I love it!
Pretty neat.
good for you
Yet somehow the hacking/fangaming scene is super small :(
Nights sucked
40:45 I guess you could say Wizeman really gave dataminer's "the finger" with that one, huh?
I absolutely adore that genuine combination of surprise and shock. "....how do you know of Selph?"
I’ve never played NiGHTS: Into Dreams and had never heard of this mystery before today. I watched this video twice. Good work! This is fascinating stuff and might be the push I need to hook up my Saturn and play this! Also, I liked the name Selph better than Self within 40 minutes of hearing about the character. You’re justified in your preference!
Maybe promoting this video with a community post or tweet or something could help him get the eyes on the search that he's looking for, seeing as your comment is buried and unnoticed down here Chugga.
Ohhhh snap the boi chugga is here
Play Journey of Dreams on the Wii after! Its gameplay is a downgrade, and it's a bit awkward in some spots, but it has its own charm and it's worth playing just to see where SEGA last touched the series before completely dropping it.
Both are really nostalgic games with a lot of heart put into them. Considering NiGHTS is referenced in nearly every Sonic game (and the fact the devs have outright stated it), it's clear Sonic Team wants to do more with this series, but SEGA won't let them because they only care about Sonic.
Sucks Balan Wonderworld went as poorly as it did, it was the closest thing to a possible NiGHTS spiritual successor in years.
Chugga!!!!! I haven't watched you in years man glad you're still around!
With how you're handling beta stuff, lore, and secrets of Splatoon 2, seeing you discuss the lore of NiGHTS would be a *dream* come true.
And for a more obvious joke: Hey, everybody, it's Chuggaaconroy!
I researched Jung's theory a lot, and now i can't think of Self as being just a mimic 2nd level or even a nightmaren.
Self, according to Jung, represents some sort of inner image of God and can appear in dreams as powerful beings. Wizeman also represents the Self as an archetype of Wise old man (Senex). But senex has a pair to him - Puer aeternus, aka Eternal child. In my theory, Self and Wizeman were used to be the same visitor. That split caused Nightopia and Nightmare to exist (Twin Seeds). Wizeman represents Nightmare and is overly rational and cruel, Self represents Nightopia and is overly childish but well-meaning. This is reflected in NiGHTS and Reala, Wizeman sacrificed his own red ideya to create a perfect nightmaren, but it failed since him and Self were parts of the same soul and shared the same ideya. This also explains why NiGHTS always rebels against Wizeman, since he actually belongs to Self.
Also i noticed Selfs head looks like a part of Tao symbol, which is also symbol of jungian Self and represents unity of opposites.
You would love the video game Persona 4.
@@TempestWind87 not only Persona 4 but the Persona Series as whole, since both franchise Nights and Persona series was inspired by Jungian Psychology theme.
Also coincidentally both series first installement Nights into Dreams and Revelation Persona was released on the same year 1996.
The "so-raaa" sound clip sounds more like a battle cry, similar to "ora", as opposed to literally saying the word sky. Still seems unfitting for a Nights character to say that, but I think there's a bit more ambiguity there than you might be giving it credit.
Even if it's not Selph saying Sora, if Sega brings back the characters something tells me that they'd make it canon. Just like how Reala says "there is no NiGHTS" as one of their tennis lines.
True, yes. I could be taking the meaning of the voice line too literally. Even then, to me it still just seems like left-overs from a sound effects library and nothing more.
@@SparkleWolf404 I think Sega's done bringing back characters. Sega Heroes is dead and All-Stars Racing was stripped into Team Sonic Racing. It's safe to say the Sega Stars games won't be making a comeback anytime soon. NiGHTS will have to make do with small cameos for now. I'm sure PSO2NGS will have more of those lol.
Which is a shame because everyone wants a new Sega Smash Bros after Fighters Megamix. I'd like to see Nei from Phantasy Star II, Rico and Flowen from PSO and Quna from PSO2 in that one. Obviously Sonic's in Smash so they could instead have Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Blaze and Amy and they could bring back Bean and maybe Bark (okay, maybe not Bark) or better yet, Bin with a Pin pallet to properly represent Dynamite Düx.
Yeah that's what I was thinking, I've heard "SORASORASORA" used in anime as a battle cry so it's not far-fetched
i was going to say this same thing, the hiss of a s at the beginning sounds like sound compression garbage more than anything else.
"Sora" does mean "Sky" in Japanese, but it's also a common grunt used during fights by Japanese people, it's the equivalent of "Yah!" or "Ha", something Japanese people might shout when doing an attack. Taking from the tone of the voice, it seems like this is a characters saying "sora" as a battlecry, rather than just randomly screaming "SKY". It's not incomon for people to believe that things like screams and grunts are universal, regardless of their region.
The feeling people say they get from vaporwave and malls, I get from Nights, and I guess the Sega Saturn in general.
I just have such a vivid yet also somehow fuzzy recollection of watching my older sister playing this game as a young kid.
When you think about it… The search for Self wasn’t really about finding a boss fight. It was more of a search for our selves.
Perhaps originally NiGHTS was going to look different depending on who they Dualized with and that's why we have the two separate head designs? I know NiGHTS is supposed to be neither male nor female but between the two of them the unknown head looks more feminine to me. It's possible that was to represent how NiGHTS looked when Dualized with Claris. But since NiGHTS is not supposed to have a gender/sex this idea could have been believed to go against that and was scrapped early on, leaving just those very basic objects to remain.
This is assuming that second object is even supposed to represent a head in the first place and it's not just a case of pareidolia going on. There are plenty of games that use heads or hats for extra lives, it is possible the game had an extra lives system at some point and that's what the NiGHTS/Reala looking objects could have been for, with different colors representing different amounts of lives. While the other object was going to be some other kind of pick up.
That all said I do like the idea of NiGHTS' appearance changing depending on the player's moral alignment. If that was a concept in the game at some point then maybe it was the reason Chao appearances changed based on alignment later in Sonic Adventure. I mean they very well couldn't have Sonic's cast change looks like that.
26:19 I'm not saying this audio belongs to Selph, but I think it is important to remember that a lot of people think Reala's pre-battle dialogue is "There is no NiGHTS!". So maybe this unknown character saying "SORA" is actually saying a word in Dream Language that just sounds like "SORA"
I was just coming down to comment on this, how long has Reala's "There is no NiGHTS!" said in the strangest, least-placeable accent been some made up language? How were we supposed to know that? I haven't played the game for over two decades so my memory's a little foggy, but if a character says "There is no NiGHTS!" and the subtitles say "Come on, NiGHTS!" my first though would be that they changed the dialogue and never got around to rerecording the line, or perhaps they did and accidentally used the old file anyhow. As for 'Adeema' it was clearly spelled Aptiva in the Archie comics and said like Shazam to activate NiGHT's powers... so what I'm saying is this language was so secret they not only kept it from the audience, they didn't even tell the people adapting their games into comic form. _What the shell?_
You know what's interesting, how much emphasis Sega and Sonic Team put into playing as Claris and Elliot in the beta/stock footage. It's always been so interesting that despite having the ability to play as NiGHTS, Claris and Elliot, you have very little reason to play as the kids. And looking in the footage that showcases what the kids can do, I wonder if there was also tons of things that were scrapped for the kid characters to do that NiGHTS can't do and Self unfortunately had to be scrapped because of that. Just theorizing that maybe they wanted to keep the focus on NiGHTS gameplay more than the kids (and they had deadlines). I always wanted to know why you could play as them but they add nothing interesting to the gameplay.
You're one of the youtubers who can make the audience invested in something they never heard of. Those kinds of content creators are the best.
Thank you! ~
@@DiGiValentine yea
Another example is definitely Billy Styler, and also Blameitonjorge, and honestly, I'd say the quality here is on the level of both of those.
00:34:38 I personally think the bottom "spike" is actually a neck for 2 reasons: 1, when comparing the bottom spike to the top spike, the top one blends smoothly and follows the curve of the emblem, and is shaded to imply a roundness, while the bottom is cut off abruptly, implying that it continues past where the emblem ends. Second, that sure does look like a profile for a sideways picture of NiGHTS herself. Considering it's about the self, it makes sense that the boss would resemble NiGHTS.
...I've just come up with a theory.
Selph (That's the name I'll use to avoid confusion) is not just another Night Maren, but actually is a total reflection of the self, but warped and twisted. And it looks different depending on whose dream it's inhabiting. I think that Selph has full access to the deepest reaches of the dreamer's psyche, and, if discovered, takes the form of the dreamer, but with some differences that reflect the darker parts of their mind. I believe that Selph is an entity that essentially takes the form of the Dungeon Master Shadows from Persona 4. In addition, whereas NiGHTS works to bring out the positives of the dreamers and helps them to overcome their fears and anxiety, Selph would be there to amplify the fears and anxiety, and drive the dreamer further down into the pits of despair. This would make Selph the most dangerous Night Maren in existence, potentially more than even Wizeman. A true Dream Demon.
As a ginormous fan of cut content, I don't think asking the developers of this game is as much of a minefield as you think it is. I mean, yeah, some companies HAAAATE the prospect, but the NiGHTS team had Yuji Naka on it, and something I learned when looking into the famous original Sonic 2 beta I found out that we confirmed where it actually came from when a journalist (I believe it was Andrea Ritsu) asked him about it, and as she wrote about later, even showed him the ROM as she happened to have it on her laptop. He was really chill about it, and I imagine would be about this, too.
i guess the major worry is influenced by that weirdly strong reaction iizuka had when given the question (he didn’t appear to know the boss theme was put on the official soundtrack, let alone that people KNEW there was a character deleted named Self). sega is much more open to their fan’s curiousity and creativity than other major japanese companies, but i wonder if particularly tight NDAs regarding production are just the norm.
I second this, sometimes you just gotta use every tool you have, and finding a very early beta version might be impossible, so just asking someone who was in the dev team might be the easiest way to find out more about Self.
@@falsefortuneteller I've heard that most of the friendliness towards fan projects comes from Sega of America rather than Sega of Japan and that, if anything, the american division is _holding back_ the japanese one, which otherwise would be as trigger-happy about shutting down fan projects as most other japanese companies.
@@inendlesspain4724 I wonder if it has something to do with Sega originally being an American company. Who knows. Still very interesting that info you shared.
Absolutely adore the Chaos theory. Thank you for all the hard work you and this community put in to this wonderful little series.
Thanks very much! ~
Yo! Its the guy!
TOOT TOOT! Dream warriors!
@@DiGiValentine
What if It Not 'nights' neither is a 'self' is different unused nightmarin that help human girl or boy's partner
@@DiGiValentine Fun Fact : Theres actually a novel based on Balan Wonderworld that might have a better story than the game it's based on. The closest successor to ether Sonic or Nights game we'll ever get is (Freedom Planet). It's a Kickstarter game that is based Heavily on Classic Sonic. The difference is that Freedom Planet is more action focused and doesn't have a spin Dash.
the head models could very well still be related to NiGHTS' morality and could be depicting NiGHTS at different alignments (a la the hero/dark chao from sa2), and still be used to unlock the Selph boss fight. after all, Selph is meant to be a reflection of "one's self", right? such as their morality!
That could also be a suitable theory. I never thought of it in that manner before. Interesting.
My theory is that the current ending was supposed to be a true ending after defeating Self.
I think the original ending would be the kids save Nightopia but it doesn't resolve their problems in real life. Self would be a manifestation of their insecurities and the source of their repeated nightmares. Unlocking the boss fight would show the kids recognize their problems and are ready to face it directly. After defeating Self, the kids are able to wake up and face their problems with confidence and earn their happy endings. The ending was always intended to be in the game but cutting content like the Self boss fight led to removing the extra conditions to watch it.
That "Mirror Staff" never looked like a staff at all to me. In fact, I thought it could have been some kind of missile.
That's the Death Egg Robot's missile from Sonic & Knuckles.
The 3D emblems remind me a lot of Void from Sonic Shuffle, who I always thought had a very NiGHTS-like design. It's obviously not spot-on the same but part of me wonders if a scrapped Self design could have eventually have been re-designed and used as Void.
I don't personally see Void in the 3D emblems (though maybe in the abstract 2D icon?), but the curled horns and diamond shape on the forehead immediately reminded me of his anima, Lumina! NiGHTS cameos in Shuffle when the game is played on Christmas eve, so there's definitely a connection there.
The fused version of Void and Lumina is literally the Goddess of Dreams. I'm pretty sure they were hoping that Shuffle would be successful enough to backboot whatever expanded NiGHTS universe they had in mind.
Void does look like a combination of the 3D model hooded shape and the abstract boss emblem, furthermore, the abstract boss emblem does look like an alien with only a single color eye (the typical basic design for aliens) and void has that in his design with his eyes while also resembling NiGHTS. I speculate the simplified emblem design is of Void/Self’s simplified appearance to look like a typical alien as boss monsters like Catz has his emblem look like a regular cat. Knowing how much of scrapped game content is used later on (like how Epona was meant for Mario 64 but was then put into Ocarina of Time) it isn’t too farfetched to believe that Void is a repurposed self for Sonic Shuffle. Honestly looking at Void’s design it almost feels obvious that he is a repurposed self, the similar body shape and colors, the similarities to the 3D emblem and the boss battle emblem, and repurposing ideas for future video games being a common practice back then makes me feel that Void is self
@@PosthumanHeresy I don't know why they had so much faith in such a poorly conceived game.
I won't deny there was potential but that potential was absolutely ruined by dumb choices. Ones that couldn't be fixed with updates because that wasn't really a thing back then and on the rare occasions when they did do it, it ate up a LOT of memory card space.
@@mattwo7 Sega has so much faith in a lot of terrible ideas. Sometimes they even work out. When they don't have faith in their weird ideas, that tends to be their greatest mistake. Sega practically has a gambling addiction. I'm honestly amazed that Microsoft didn't snatch them up during their latest buying spree. Between their 24 year history together and Microsoft's troubles in Japan, you'd think it would be a match made in Arkham Asylum. Sega only survives because enough of their crazy ideas have a success rate and they milk Sonic hard to make up the difference. "Potential ruined by dumb choices" is absolutely the story of a lot of their failed gambles.
Iizuka immediately going _"How do you know about Self?"_ without him being explicitly mentioned and him suddenly forgoing his translator to speak in English directly sounds menacing as shit honestly
That aside, I think I agree with the "Self and Reala were meant to be bonus bosses fought after getting collectibles" theory the most. I always found it odd that Elliot's route got Reala, while Claris got Jackle, who is way less important to NiGHTS than Reala was. If Elliot got a simple rematch with Reala and Claris fought a whole new character (Self), then that would balance things out between them.
Additionally, I think the number of emblems matches one per level. While there are only six regular stages total in the game (each kid collecting three each instead of four), we know there was supposed to be a Halloween themed level that got scrapped, which most likely would've had another counterpart to bring the stages up to eight total, four emblems per kid, one found per level.
I thought the emblems matched up with each stages boss, but it really only goes for Puffy (pink and blue) and maybe Gillwing (the emblem has a much darker shade of green than Gillwing does).
That _also_ aside, I loved this documentary so much. I went from passing knowledge of "Oh yeah, there was a single line of text referring to some Slyph guy or something in the game's files" to eagarly awaiting and hoping for a new prototype release of the game and wondering what Self could've looked like (I imagine he looks something like a mix between Giygas from Mother 1 and Chaos as mentioned). The amount of research, love and passion poured into this video is insane, utterly fantastic work here!
please dont say the s word that way
@@giovannicorraliza4393 s word what way?
Claris and Elliot had 4 stages each, counting Twin Seeds. The number of emblems checks out.
@@giovannicorraliza4393 shit???
Not to mention that his name was written in red
Omg Izuka's reaction at 14:10 ... He started speaking to the guy directly. IN ENGLISH 🤣
You can tell he was probably thinking; "...What...What the FUCK!?"
The fact that Iizuka was so baffled that people knew about Selph that he broke into English and asked for himself on how they knew is really funny imo.
Honestly Izuka’s reaction to being asked about Self sounds like something out of a creepypasta
Who would have thought that a game about flying through rings would have so many mysteries around itself. You guys did an amazing job and I hope that Selph's identity is finally revealed even if it takes years.
The "Reala Returns" theory can make even more sense when you remember that the theme for the 2 player vs mode is "NiGHTS and Reala: Theme of a Tragedic Revenge". What might have happened is that they scrapped the secret 2nd round against Reala and turned it into a quick versus mode.
That would have been pretty epic though!
In regards to finding a prototype with some more data one more avenue that might be even more likely than the ones said is finding a potential beta of the PS2 version. I know it sounds crazy but sometimes for remasters and remakes the devs leave things from the source code that were meant to be scrubbed out that the people who were sent the source might have missed. It's a long shot I know but it has happened before if I'm remembering right, a big example I can think of is some extra things were left in Mario Galaxy when 3D All Stars came out such as test levels previously only known about from text references but as I said I could be remembering wrong. Either way I'm sure somehow we'll see and maybe even play against Selph be it official means like an art book or something or through the community having a breakthrough. Been loving your stuff and you're why I even really got into NiGHTS years ago so I'm hoping someday I see a notification that's just "We found Self" or something like that.
It would be beneficial to look through some of the other rereleases of the game as there may be differences in what was left in if they were made from older builds of the game. Even if they’re unable to find Selph, I imagine there would be a substantial amount of other finds if they were different builds.
JoD might have some stuff in it too regarding Selph. The game has the entire ost of Into Dreams in the data, including Know Thyself iirc
@@thisusernameisalreadytaken5132 I doubt JoD has anything regarding Self. They didn't reuse anything from NiD, though yes they did pull the soundtrack. It's worth checking, perhaps some hidden elements knowing it will be the last NiGHTS game, but otherwise I doubt it.
Did anybody even data mine the Japanese version of the game?
They probably won't find anything different OR they might find other assets that were scrubbed.
@@kwbalance108 last NiGHTS game? JoD was the last? Are you sure?
So what if that morality gage idea was meant for self, selfs form would change based on your morality reflecting your true self. The emblems represented selfs form changing as you became more wicked or more good.
That would be awesome
That would make a lot of sense based on them saying that the concept was based on the Jungian psychology idea of the self. Anyone else able to name a video game which took that specific idea and made it into a boss fight? Persona 4 did it, and the concept was all about them being a reflection of their true selves. It really seems like the only way to adapt that idea into a boss fight is a battle with your true self. Given that, it makes sense that in a game trying to do things that already fit a similar mold, they'd want it to adapt and reflect the player.
I came to this theory too
And that would be another reason to "Know Thyself !"
@@PosthumanHeresy Persona 2 also did the shadow selves concept too
So, a bit of my personal interpretation on what "Self" entails
Admittedly, my first exposure to the concept of Self came around the time I learned of the scrapped Spiral Claris level, so I've always been inclined to associate Claris and Self, although given everything discussed here and how Self was always meant to be a secret boss, it's unlikely that Claris was meant to fight anyone but Wizeman on that level.
However, I still think there's a good deal of evidence to connect Claris and Self together, and the 3D emblems you guys found kinda leads me back to a thought I've always kinda had with the character. If we're to assume those emblems are Reala and Self, that would mean Self and "Reala Returns" would both be secret bosses. Keep in mind, Reala is an Eliot exclusive character Claris never specifically confronts, and I think it's interesting to ask WHY this is.
Reala, as a character, is a perfect equal to NiGHTS, but is notably distinct from them. They're very competitive towards NiGHTS and the player, and overcoming him in a seemingly equal match with both of you following the same rules is the key to defeating him. In essence, Reala is the demonized version of the bullies Eliot faces in the beginning: Peers around Eliot's age besting him on a playing field of equal ground, and mocking him for it. This makes Reala a representation of external confrontation.
However, Claris HAS no external conflict. She IMAGINES that she'll be laughed at on stage, but that never comes to pass. Her demons are internal, her own personal self doubt and fear. Going off this logic, I think these emblems having a tie in to Self and Reala's Return is a very strong possibility, with plenty of evidence in the narrative pieces. Two final bosses for each character, representing the internal and external conflicts they face in their waking lives.
Of course, it is also possible Self is Claris' equivalent to Wizeman since they're both expressions of the self in jungian terms, but I also don't think these ideas are mutually exclusive. Self could be a counterpart to Wizeman AND a secret boss fought after Claris has already confronted Wizeman in "Spiral Claris".
As someone who's never played the original game - but has watched his lil bro play the sequel - I think your interpretation is pretty cool, not gonna lie. Assuming that your theory is correct, it makes me wish that SEGA delayed the game a little to include Reala Returns and Self.
@@TheWispGuy I'm one of the ones that has a soft spot for the sequel tbh, but Reala and Wizeman's inclusion has always kinda struck me as an odd case of pyramid head syndrome. They make much more sense to be recurring antagonists than pyramid head at least, and there's no guarantee my interpretation of their original versions is even correct, but it just seems like odd foes for William and Helen to fight when their conflict is about abandonment and guilt respectively. It doesn't feel like any of their enemies prey on their insecurities the same way the levels do, making the levels more active antagonists in their stories than the nightmares
Oh I really like that idea! I haven't heard of this Spiral Claris thing. I'll have to look into it.
@@gigithehedgehog8469 All we know is the name
For reference, in the files twin seeds is called "eliot city", so spiral claris was presumably a leval that's equivalent to twin seeds but for claris
@@KrissyBlues Oh wow. Thanks for telling me.
34:54 Yo!! I was checking the Twitter and someone pointed out that the final boss from Ristar (forgot his name) also looks very similar to the character in this icon and it is true. The head of the final boss from Ristar is even more similar to this character than Chaos's. Also remember, Ristar was released one year before NiGHTS into Dreams and it was also developed by Sonic Team.
You mean Kaiser Greedy?
@@Flamfamuro Yes.
If that morality system was true, maybe Selph could be NiGHTS as a mirror boss, similar to Reala, so if NiGHTS was on the evil path Selph could appear as the good one and vice versa.
Has anyone tried to look into NiGHTS: JoD to see if there's remnants of Self there?
For all we know, SEGA may have tried to bring Self back only for the mysterious figure to be scrapped again
That's exactly what I was thinking too! Perhaps self could be somewhere within that game if they tried to bring him back but got scrapped again. Would be cool to see that game get datamined too
@@JazzyBatty JoD has some reallyyyy fascinating stuff in it that’s incredibly hard to trigger, especially in its MyDream segment. i would love to see it laid out, it has a special place in my heart and considering it did reuse the ‘Reala Returns’ concept it really would not shock me if another conceptual version of Selph floated around in it
Yeah considering how Self seemed to be remembered easily and that the interview was to build up hype for JoD it could be they were thinking about them.
I hope we actually find Selph in the new prototype Hidden Palace might be releasing, and I hope we actually get it soon
Also I love your videos, they're really well made!
Thank you ~
Wait a minute! They already found a new prototype today! just as DiGi said that there's a low chance of it happening?!
What kind of luck does the NiGHTS community have?!
@@thepuzzlemaster64 Wait what!? DRX? who released it!?
And also is it released yet or has it simply been found?
When you started talking about the "Reala returns" nameplate starting at 59:38 it made me thing that maybe, just maybe, that "Reala - Theme of a Tragedic Revenge" was supposed to play during this theoretical bonus battle against Reala, and that after the concept was scrapped the song got repurposed for multiplayer.
I doubt I'm the first to think of it, but I'm just putting it out there.
That said, this was an AWESOME video! :D
I totally can see this, that would make way more sense for the two variations.
It would also make Reala have more presence in the story, which wasn't realized until JoD.
I’m not sure if it’s just me, but the “hooded” version of the potential Self heads- what if they’re backward. I feel like if they were rotated so the back was facing forward (so the Diamond piece is the back of the head) it looks decently close to the boss icon.
you mean 56:00 ?
That is what I thought too
lol thats actually what i just commented today
I honestly don't agree with your philosophy of contacting the developers being our last resort. As you said yourself, time is ticking and each day we're further and further away from being able to find more information on our own. With Naka having a fairly active instagram and Ohshima a fairly active twitter, I think it might be time to start asking the people involved.
I just have a casual interest in Nights because of the game's relationship with Sonic, the series I'm actually a fan of, but I love this type of deep dives into cut content and beta versions.
Really enjoyed the video, keep up the good work!
Man how funny would it be if for over 20 years of research and speculation, some one just pops up with a model/concept art of selph out of nowhere
My heart goes out to all the forgotten, lost, or discarded source codes of classic games.
Sad to think that the entire time, the Mirror Staff was quite literally a giant middle finger.
I've always loved Nightz but damn I wasn't aware people were this dedicated
I guess you could say that all of those dataminers are pretty....
*Selfless*
i hope sonic team/sega knows how much power they have by sitting on these files/concepts/ideas. and how much the fandom would flip its sh*t if they chose to revisit the series someday
Never played NiGHTS, don't own a Saturn, but this was pretty interesting to watch. Its really like archeology, digging through the past, piecing little remnants together, painstakingly fixing broken pieces so you can see the story clearly as it was.
I've literally never played Nights, but now I am absolutely invested in the quest to find Self.
Digi, I've been listening to the old Dreamcast podcasts recently. You and trip are legends. I love NID and this video has made my month. THANK YOU!
Thank you! ~
@@DiGiValentine you had a Dreamcast podcast?
@@JCOdrjones It was a old fan podcast series back in the day for when NiGHTS Journey of Dreams was still a new game at the time.
@@mc.gemstone raw
I've been playing NiGHTS for so long, and been a fan of the character and franchise for so long... And I've NEVER heard anything about this character before today.
And while I'm glad I do, I... Can't help but feel creeped out at the idea that for 20+ years, Selph has been trapped in the game somewhere we can't see and it can't leave, watching player after player from just out of our reach.
Like some kinda creepypasta. Ah- I'll never be able to relax playing the game again. ;w;
S is Real 2022
Selph's emblem looks similar to a bird's head with its beak open. If you look at the top part of the "beak" it becomes lighter the further it is from the "eye" implying an internal structure. There is also a distinct darker line that breaks up surface or edge of the "beak" from the inner part. The "lower" part suggests the "jaw" of the "beak".
It can also be a crab claw or something.
Nights Chao being a Neutral chao makes me kind of feel like the morality system really could've been a thing at one point, maybe an element before A-Life was as prominent? Maybe your alignment used to dictate Nightopians reaction to you instead.
went into this not really knowing about NiGHTS or anything about Self, ended up popping off at the discovery of an end credits name tag as the doc went on
51:22 I'm probably overthinking a little bit, but it is interesting how there are three characters in NiD who have this red diamond-shaped gem in their designs: NiGHTS, the King Pian (he has that gem in his crown) and now this unknown character. Makes me wonder if that red gem onto NiGHTS chest is a big deal in the lore.
I like to think that Self's desing is similar to Void's one in Sonic Suffle, I mean, the game is way too similar to NiGHTS concept with the dream world and stuff, also Void and Lumina fusion theirselves at the end of the game to represent a being that was split to begin with, similar to that one theory where the player was supposed to fuse with self. Lumina looks like NiGHTS and Void resembles to the Self emblem from the boss select sprites. Just some speculation of course
when you mentioned the soundtrack,''for thy self'' and the icon of selph, and the emblems, it reminded me about a fight with, well, yourself, like dealing with self-doubt, and overcoming your fears, maybe selph was supposed to represent self-doubt and you would have to fight against him, as a last attempt to stop nights from reaching the last boss, in my theory, selph reminds me of a shape shifter, just like nights, but that could be just a theory
I really hope everyone finds Selph.
I'm kinda surprised Christmas nights didn't show up or get mentioned in this. I'm curious as to if looking into that version could prove useful in any way.
I second this! Christmas Nights could've been an opportunity for them to revisit Self and scrap it again.
Okay. I feel a special connection to NiGHTS. I grew up obsessed with the series and as a kid i didnt have access to any communities about it. Sometimes I really thought I was the only person who even cared strongly about it. Seeing the dedication people put into learning more about the games makes my heart so warm. NiGHTS is a special one, it really is
Somebody might have said this but, doesn't the unused 3d head look similar to the emblem if viewed from the side? The spike with the diamond at the top slopes forward which would match with the top of the emblem which would mean the little round bits at the bottom would line up with the bottom spikes.
Could be a case of that item being loaded backwards, so the part with the diamond is actually looking at it from behind. Or that Self's design changed over time to line up more with the emblem.
Both ideas are a reach but it was the first thing I thought when seeing the head model so I thought it was worth mentioning.
A good idea, but on the other hand the backs of the heads are flat.
Iizuka:Why do you know of Selph? Everyone there: *proceeds to start laughing*
I'm so happy to have found proof this wasn't just a childhood fever dream! I used to seriously think I had hallucinated playing these games, and to find out years later that Carl Jung was inspiration for it just when I'm getting into Jungian philosophy is astounding. Thank you so much for this gem!
The secret track "NiGHTS and Reala: Theme of a Tragedic Revenge" you get when facing NiGHTS as Reala could also point to there being a scrapped secret Reala boss fight. Why go to the lenght to compose such a different version of his theme if not for something more than an easter egg?
It's awesome to see more information surface on Selph/Self, even if we still don't really know what they looked like. (Though...sure would be a pisser if it turned out Self didn't HAVE a unique design on account of being a mirror boss.)
Have any builds older than the E3 demo been recovered yet? Those would be our best bet, I think.
I can see the emblem model and the little boss icon being the same design! Slick the curled side horns and the top horn back and you'll have a similar looking side profile.
Okay, while I did initially see a head in the Self icon because, yeah brains are wired to see faces in everything, my immediate thought afterward was that of a crab claw, and now that's all I can see. It could also potentially be, I dunno, a stinger of some kind? Like from a scorpion? The head model makes me think of an Egyptian cowl so a scorpion tail would weirdly make sense for that. If that's the case the difference between the icon and the head model makes sense because they're different body parts. Something to consider? I dunno, I feel like assuming it's a face and not considering other possibilities is limiting ourselves
This is great work! I can't quite put my finger on why, but there's just something delightfully eerie about this whole Selph character and the mystery around it, and I love it.
I've been a NiGHTS fans since the US release date; love your channel, and really appreciate you covering this fantastic game so far past its release.
I just thought of this last night, so bare with me, but I think Selph's icon is actually depicting a very, very early (and probably rather obscure or unknown) version of NiGHTS herself. I think this cause, if you look at the icon hard enough and look at an image of NiGHTS side-by-side, they have a decent resemblance (however vague it might be) toward each other imo. Perhaps the person responsible for making the boss icons was given the early design of NiGHTS as a reference to use for Selph, as they were most likely (or just are) a mirror/doppelganger/whatever term you want to use of NiGHTS.
Another theory I have is that Selph is some kind of Nightopian that's a doppelganger of NiGHTS cause but that might be a bit farfetched. The only other thing I can link between Selph and Nightopians is that a Nightopian could probably realistically evolve or morph their head shape to look like how Selph's icon looks (I've not played either Into Dreams or Journey of Dreams extensively so please inform me if Nightopians do or do not change appearance like that) but again that's a bit of a reach.
Also, as a total aside, the thought of NiGHTS with a neck like what we see in Selph's icon (if my theory is to be believed it is an early design of her) just sounds unbelievably cursed.
The search for Self almost mirrors Elliot and Claris’ own search for their sense of self in the game. What a notion it is that the devs may have planted these easter eggs in the hopes that someone would find them one day and go on a similar journey, making friends along the way. That’s silly, I know but it just made me think.
I consider myself a life long fan and had absolutely no idea this even existed. Thanks for making such an exceptional video.
The Sylph Boss emblem might not be representing its head, maybe it's some kind of claw.
I think the "Sora" was meant to be an attack grunt. A lot of bosses in Japanese language uses this term. I remember Kyo Kusanagi using it successively in one of his attacks in Capcom vs. SNK 2.
ur probably thinkin of ORA ORA ORA ORA
Send this to Whang and we'll have a full model rip and concept art of Selph in a week
Tell me more about this Whang
My hopes are either someone finding a build of NiGHTS from march of 1996 or even earlier in 1995 or a Sega giga leak that has NiGHTS stuff in it like how people found Luigi in Mario 64. Self will be found someday we just need to keep digging and searching. We came far with this and were never gonna stop.
Every day that Sega isn't hacked causes me additional wonder. It's Sega. Don't tell me they have remotely competent defenses. There is no way their best code is in cybersecurity.
@@PosthumanHeresy if Nintendo can be hacked and the gigaleak happen then Sega easily can
Just want to say that you got me, someone who doesn't really play video games, to watch an hour+ long video about an unreleased boss from a 26-year old game I'd never heard of until now.
Excellent work, I hope the search continues to yield results!
The weird thing about the head present in the emblem, to me, is that it resembles one of the early renditions of Nights themselves in one of the conceptual art pieces. Where they have diamond shaped earrings (resembling very closely to the small spikes visible in the emblem) on each side and a singular spike that sticks out of their head (difference being that it swirls inwards in the available concept art). What if Self was literally an early design of Nights themselves incorporated into the storyline itself somehow?
Additionally, this wasn't mentioned in the video. But the 3D Emblem is used in one of the promos that says "fly into the dream paladox", which makes me wonder if it was supposed to be used somewhere in the title screen.
This is a really cool and inspiring video!
Really makes me want to seek Self. I'll try to check the Christmas NiGHTS Into Dreams for the time being.
Hey, this all seems to be data from the English version of the game? Is there any different code/left over stuff in the original japanese release? something to think about. Maybe they removed Self's credit artwork on the English release.
The Chaos theory is a pretty interesting one, but i could also think that maybe Self is a "mutation" of an Idyea that evolved into "one self", if we apply the same as Chaos here, Chaos is a mutated Chao that evolved to use the power of the Master Emerald and became its guardian, if we took the same with Self, Self might be an Idyea that "evolved" and turned into the self representation of both animus and shadows of one singular being.
Maybe the hidden boss is an special type of Idyea that evolves into Self, after all Sonic Team did made that ultra rare type of Idyea to begin with, so might as well Self be one of them that appears only when this special Idyea is born and you had met other specific criteria.
Oh man, it's been SO LONG since I thought about Selph/Self. Seeing the icon was a trip, I honestly thought that I had imagined that because I couldn't find it again! I wasn't aware of some of the newest datamined discoveries so man, this was quite a wild ride! Thank you for such a lovingly put together video, DiGi!
-is always interesting to see where the Game Preservation rabit holes end up going
-another great argument in favor of Game preservation & data mining: a future Dev can always bring back all that cut content in any re-release, Taxman's Sonic remakes are a good example
i was fascinated by nights since it's release, i remember going to toys r' us constantly and playing it on the trial cabinet never to ever get a sega saturn or the game. even as an adult i have a strange draw to this game, and Playing it through emulation recently, made me come back to look up the history. this video was absolutely fascinating! thank you so much for your info and work
"We have been searching for self for years."
That's really deep... I think...
After the long wait, it was worth it
Man, it's amazing to have all this info in one place. Reminded me of a lot of things I haven't thought about in years.
Thanks for putting this whole thing together! Absolute joy to watch. Here's hoping this saga gets to continue before long~ 💜♦️💜
It's been a mad journey, i can't believe it's been going on for this long. And it's still going. We were all kids when this started, lol. I just wish i could have found the actual sources for some of those very early discoveries.
As someone who only encountered nights through sonic and eventually playing it through the remaster thank you Digi this is a insight to Sega's development process and the nights community
The craziest part of this is that there is a Sega artist out there with a sketchbook full of original concept art and notes for Self for game implementation that is probably on a shelf or in a drawer somewhere.
Yeah who was over this? This is who y out need to be talking to
Just seeing the words 'a NiGHTS documentary' makes me so excited to watch this video. The NiGHTS fandom, while small, is insanely passionate about the series. It's always a treat to find people who are just as dedicated, if not, even more so than I am to this silly purple jester game where you fly through hoops collecting blue balls, suck up small cone headed baby creatures and throw fat opera singing balloon ladies through walls.
Seriously, what was Yuji Naka on?
Creativity
Beautifully made Documentary. I absolutely love the emotion and dedication put into this video. NiGHT's is a franchise that has always stuck out to me, I have so many fond memories with both games. I really hope this character can be found, and I have a feeling that he eventually will. It feels like we've almost found everything BUT Self. We're close, I know it.
Ooh, a one hour Nights video from Digi. We are being FED, y’all! 🙏🙌🏽
I'm not sure why UA-cam recommended me this, but it was a DAMN good use of an hour and 16 minutes. Good on ya.
I never had a chance to play NiGHTS and kinda regret it, but it was for a system I didn't own. I remember when it was in a comic though and I bought every single comic that was made.
Whoa, like you said the idea of the emblems being a morality gauge does seem unusual for NiGHTS, but I kind of love that theory! Also, this is my bad but it's possible that the emblems weren't actually metallic. Some people were talking about how it's possible to replace Elliot or Claris' models with NiGHTS' model, but it tends to mess up the model's lighting. It's possible that was what was happening with those heads. Anyways, really fantastic work on this video! it's awesome and I learned a lot. -- Gremmar
Thanks, Gremmar! And, i see. Lol, i figured i might get one or two things wrong. Though, even if these objects might not have had a shiny effect they still seem like collectibles due to the colour variations and their location being within the common objects data.
You know, one thing i was wondering about the emblem objects - has anyone tried to model swap them with the 3D modelled power-ups? So far, to my knowledge we've swapped them with the egg-clock, but i was wondering if anybody has tried to swap them with a collectible like the power-ups. Would something like that even be possible? Would it even work? Just curious as to what would happen if we tried that.
@@DiGiValentine not yet, I'll have to suggest that.
I love how you bring light upon NGHTS because she is my favourite sega character and bring how good of a game it is
Someone else who refers to NiGHTS as a she!
@@arachnescurse3315 Alot of people do, regardless of NiGHTS being called a 'good boy' and a HE in Journey of Dreams.
I was only 6 when I discovered NIGHTS and overall felt that she was more feminine than masculine due to the design, personality and voice actor
@@kingkazma3246 NiGHTS doesn't have a established gender because the purpose was to make the player give them their identity. Referring to NiGHTS as a boy, a girl or using gender neutral pronouns are all valid choices because you are the one shaping NiGHTS's identity according to what you see. Same thing applies to Reala and all other characters in the Dream World.
This is because they're supposed to be part of everyone's subconscious.
I always saw both NiGHTS and Reala as feminine entities because I'm a woman and I also played as Claris. Lol
@@Ekraelum I know, I'm just stating the fact that NiGHTS was called a He by Will and a Good Boy by Reala in Journey of Dreams, NiGHTS was also called a He in the old Comics. Relax, I've noticed the people who hate these facts are feminists and homophobic men who like staring at NiGHTS ass lol.
I'm glad that the fandom is still alive to this day and going outta there way to finally put a rest to this age old mystery. Best of luck to everyone working on this project so far everyone has done such amazing progress and I hope that progress continues as much as it can.💜
This entire search is just a metaphor for our attempt to get in touch with our Self, which means once we do find them, we’ll either become a god or insane. Or both.