Right Arm Bend in the Golf Swing: Pros vs Ams
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- Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
- The bending action of the right arm in the golf swing is an extremely important element to a good swing. Often times, we can't do what we want with the club because we've positioned the right arm in such a way that doesn't leave us any choice but to move the club poorly.
The is one element that we can learn much from studying the pros in the game. Ams can often move their right arms better by just understanding what they do AND when they do it.
This right arm video is a companion video to our "Left Arm Bend in the Golf Swing: Pros vs Ams" video you can see here: • Left Arm Bend In The G... - Спорт
![[PROS vs. AMS] | Create LAG In Your Golf Swing](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4FllwDHWGxk/mqdefault.jpg)
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I have been playing golf now for 28 years. I am a 2 handicap. I always thought that the right arm was supposed to be fully extended at impact. It wasn't until a week ago on the driving range that a person told me that my right arm was way too straight at address and way too straight at impact. He used to be the golf coach at the University of Florida and he won the Florida State am when he was much younger so I figured I should listen. He said that my right arm should be bent at impact and shouldn't be fully straightened until about 3 feet past the ball. Which you clearly indicate in this video. I think it is crazy that I didn't know that. Changing it added 20 yards of distance to my drives.
That is a great example of correct alignment of bone structure…and if you look at pros they exhibit this physical characteristic at impact pre and post
I am so amazed by your videos. I have been watching many of them and I have really benefitted from your advice. I have also benefitted from the wide backswing/wide downswing video. This video is making the biggest difference in my swing because I was one of the golfers who set up with a straight right arm and had a tendency to internally rotate my left shoulder. Thank you also for getting right to the point in all of your videos.
Really glad they're helping, Mark. And thank you for watching!
This video is amazing! You can clearly see why the pro can generate great impact while the amateur falls far behind. Thank you!
Another great video Shaun. It's incredible to me how two golfers can look so similar yet be 'miles' apart in ability. The subtle and often minute differences in sequencing, positions, timing, tempo, interaction of the club and body etc. are what adds the mystery to the sport.
A lot of golfers make the same moves as pros, just not at the same time. Which makes all the difference.
That is so perfectly clear just how the right elbow and arm works the degrees attained at each position i always thought the right elbow bend was 90 degrees at left arm parallel wow was i wrong and my game has been horrible all my golfing years this info has to be a real game changer for me and others like me thanks again guys so so helpful 😀
Lovin these pro versus ams videos, makes things so much easier to understand where I’m going wrong, this is exactly what I’m trying to improve at the moment, keep up the good work and thanks for yet more brilliant content 🏌️♂️👍
Thanks for the kind words, Peter! Really glad you are enjoying them... we've got lots more still to come.
Very concise explanation. Will try it this weekend
Appreciate what you folks are doing here.
Thank you for watching!
Fantastic work, I watch it back and forth to improve my swing. Compare, contrast and discovery. Thanks
Great vids. So informative. Thanks Shaun.
These have helped me immensely in practice. Thanks guys!
Really appreciate you watching, Alyn. Glad they are helping!
Awesome I love this channel!
Hey guys, great video and so true. Have you got any drills to resolve the issue?
@Athletic Motion Golf Late to the show, but great video. Can you explain the path the right arm bends? Is it more of an up down motion like doing a bicep curl? Or is there rotation also involved with the bending?
Great content! Helping me already.
Thanks for watching, William!
These are awesome, gentlemen.
Thanks for watching, DR!
You guys kill it!!!
🙏👊
Hello Shaun,
I've noticed in some of the avatars the right elbow seems to not lead in the downswing. I've always been told to lead with the elbow, but I struggle with that motion as a lefty who plays righty. Also, when I do that move, there is external rotation in my right shoulder. What do you see from the pros you work with?
These vids are great. Thanks for putting these together.
Tim
Crazy good. Thanks!
Thanks for watching, Ken!
Focusing on my right elbow and how it bends and where it goes in space during the swing really fixed my driver for good. With the swing thought of keeping it closer to my body then up after parallel and then back down on similar path and making contact in front of my body w that elbow staying tucked through rotation... has me hitting that driver far and consistently well. It’s almost made that club easy for me and also made tee shots so much less stressful. Now I just need to get nasty w the putter and from the rough lol. I Hate the long grass and especially pitching from it! When you go right under the ball n get a blade full of grass and the ball goes nowhere
Very Cool...thx for that!!
This is real s---! Love it.How about a video on the DTL view so we see the difference of the closeness or distance of the right elbow from the body through impact between pros and amateurs?
Great idea! Should be able to make that happen.
I’ve noticed keeping the width and a straighter right arm through the backswing and into the downswing has cured my hooks. I think it also naturally forces my shoulders to turn on plane versus flat. Which is what causes some of the flipping and chicken wing conditions at impact.
Thank you. It would also be nice to see right leg comparisons between amateurs and pros, and left leg comparisons!
We're way ahead of you, Jim ;-) We've already got the footage for both of those videos collect and right now we're just putting them together. Thanks for watching!
Wow. Who would ever think about the trail arm. Wow.
Out of sight out of mind😊
Awesome Vid./Comparison....Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
Amazing!. I can see how a collapsing right arm can get you off plane, cause an inside takeaway and get you over swinging and across the line.
Do you think the folding of the right arm gives the swing any leverage or would keeping it quite straight produce just as much power?
It needs to bend, SD, but it's better to bend earlier than later.
Bending the right arm excessively at the top puts the hands and handle closer to to the right shoulder versus away and deeper with a straighter right arm.
New mantra is wide, vs what all the old Hogan mantra use to be.
but, what's a tour pro elbow per club, cause with short and wedges they are back bent vs extended wide with long irons and woods
Can u do the comparison of right heel lifting during downswing and shoulders opening in downswing?
What exactly are you looking to find out, Vimal?
Very cool videos! Any chance you might do a video on foot torque pressures- R vs L, Clockwise vs CCW? I saw a video once talking about a feeling of twisting ones foot into the ground, but not sure if your foot pressure equipment would be able to pick up the subtlety of rotational pressures, but it would be very interesting just the same. Thanks again!!
We can get the torque forces, but we aren't capable of having it displayed for each foot (yet). We're planning on doing more ground forces videos coming up😉
Athletic Motion Golf -- Great! Will look forward to it. Glad there are plenty of great videos to keep me busy until then! Thanks!
Great vid. There's a lot to think about from this one! Interesting how some of the differences in right arm bend in the backswing were actually caused by different upper-body rotation - or lack of it in the am's case - which has quite an effect on width and relationship between the arms and shoulders and thus how much the right arm has to bend. And in the downswing and impact I'm thinking I wasn't too far off in my comment on the left-arm vid.
I have to say I am loving this series of vids - the pro-am comparison with these graphics really highlight the difference between "optimal" and "less-than-optimal" swing movements so much better than a normal lesson video.
Yessir, great observations
Yep, we see the pro's left shoulder turn under his chin to the point where it is directly under at the top and no head movement. The left arm is still pretty straight creating the wide arc that will give him more club head speed and a square club path. The amateur's shoulder doesn't make it and since he wants to take the club back just as far as the pro, he creates all sorts of problems like head movement, and a loss of balance. Since the shoulder turn is incomplete, the hands are higher and the club travels outside in. We also see an early release by the amateur.
Great visuals - would be great to see the relationship between this and lag in the downswing! This video suggests that contrary to popular belief the PRO is not lagging the club as much as we think he is?
Thanks, Bash! The pro is doing a better job at keeping the club head inside his hands during the first half of the downswing (face on view), that's about the best way to create lag. He isn't however trying to artificially maintain or hold it though.
That was great. Thx for doing it SW!
Thanks guys. You always set the bar pretty high! 🙏🏼
Okay, this is good food for thought. My problem is that I have been told that my shoulder rotation is actually a little too large (in contrast to the AM in this video) AND in addition that my arms go too far back, with my right elbow ending up too far behind me. That seems to lead to a difficult place from which to start the downswing. I have tried to stop the arms from going too far, but thinking great thoughts has only produced a minimal effect. I have speculated that it might all be tied to my tendency to completely finish the backswing before starting the downswing, rather than initiating the downswing slightly before the club reaches the top. Any ideas about why my arms are going too far and how to stop it? Have you a video somewhere that addresses some aspect of my excessively long backswing? Great videos. Thanks!
Yes. What you're describing is so often caused by being way too late with your shift. Even needs to happen earlier than you mentioned. Give this drill a go: ua-cam.com/video/ytkWXcdgHe4/v-deo.html
Can right arm being too bent at the top slow the arms down? Struggle to get past 17mph max hand speed with my 3Bays sensor.....
Shaun,
Looks like at the top, the am has his right shoulder internally rotated while the pro has his externally rotated. Is this also a factor? Will external rotation also promote a less bent right arm?
Thanks,
Jim
Definitely a factor, Jim.
Will you explain further? External vs internal rotation-
Hi @AthleticMotionGolf, worth doing a remake of this, a bit more in-detailed? this looks like a very interesting piece of the puzzle
Good idea 👊
shaun, so that's me with the overly bent right arm at the top and then getting stuck and coming from too far from the inside on the way down. what's a good thought or drill to get in a better position. i get away with it on teed shots but off the turf no good thnx, steve
Steve, start to allow your right arm to bend some earlier in the takeaway and backswing. Having some flex in there early will allow you to have less of it there at the top. We see most golfers try to fix this by trying to keep a straight right arm early which almost guarantees a collapse late.
How do you decide this is based on the elbow?
Feels like the pro would also have a bunch of other fundamentals checked, and the am would be janky on other things that could be true cause.
The quickest way to tell a good golfer from a really good golfer is in their width. The width at impact is telling in this example.
its interesting to watch what the heads are doing - have you any info on this?
Have you seen this one: ua-cam.com/video/MsKn3NsRQt8/v-deo.html
Yes i have but i was more interested in us amateurs. Im thinking looking back will hinder our follow through while looking forward may promote it! Your thoughts?
Looking back is tough for most golfers to do. At or forward makes other things easier in a lot of cases👍
i really enjoy these anatomical golf videos. as an amateur i suffer from a lot of these problems, would you say the root cause of the over bent right arm may be the lack of shoulder turn and then the cramped look and cupped left wrist etc. thnx steve
The rotation can definitely be a factor, Steve, along with the cupped wrist... but we also see golfers without rotation issues who still work the right arm poorly. Is rotation an issue for you?
i would say i do have some rotation issue. it's like i know what supposed to happen but don't know how to do it correctly because i'm thinking bring the arms up and the body follows. is there some body move to key on to get the rotation right and be on plane or am i over thinking it? i play decent golf most of the time but have been a 13 hdcp. for over 25 yrs. i'm 68 now but still pluggin away. i saw my swing on video and didn't like what i saw, sort of cramped looking at the top. but my ball flight and distance is not bad and fairly consistant, any ideas to work on? thnx, steve
Would you be up for an email exchange?
what is email exchange? i'm low tech
Just going to offer you to send a video of your swing over email for us to look at 👍
The amateur character, that's me. Cupped wrist at top, no width..I've been led to believe to keep my right arm bent on the downswing , aka Ben hogan at impact,admittedly thru poor info absorption. this has opened my eyes. Why doesn't the pro tell me this stuff when I had lessons. It would be a bonus if you could confirm how the player should correct this from a pro point of view , why is the amateur doing this in the first place etc. I hazard a guess to day that this fella should try and have the feeling of having a straight arm on the upswing
Pros dont literally keep turning their hips do they? I was going to say "spin" but the connotation says different to what im asking. You know how we assume they "pull" all the way fast for power, but im starting to believe that actually inhibits the energy from going out to the club fast enough... More or less drags it backwards more. So my question is, do they get to a point open fast enough.. EARLY enough in the downswing and just not try to turn anymore..but just don't stop it either? Kind of like the upped body shoves it the rest of the way, but it happens so fast it just LOOKS like pure rotation the entire time? Thanks. I have a bunch of questions, but i know you guys are really busy. Thanks for all your time.
Nice video. Do you think the right arm for the Pro has less bend because it is closer to the left arm? In other words, would the swing thought be "keep your arms close together" or "try not to bend the right arm"? I feel like if I think about keeping my arms together, I make better contact. Maybe do a video on Pro vs Am the increased distance between arms (elbows) from setup to full backswing?
That idea helps a lot of golfers move the right arm better. Great video idea - thanks!
Would you recommend that the AM player keep his right arm closer to the body throughout the swing, folding it to the 'WAITER AT A RESTAURANT' position at the top?
If the player can do it, having the elbow pointing more down can help like Jim mentioned... but that doesn't always mean the arm has to stay in close to the body.
Not sure if you'll see this because its a late comment to release date but, based on videos of my swing, my right (trail) arm looks very bent at the top of the backswing even though my left (lead) arm is completely straight. So my question is, what's more important at the top of the backswing position? Straighter lead arm or less bend in trail arm? And what provides more power, less bend or more bend in trail arm?
Straight lead arm isn't important. Most every pro we've captured on 3D has bend in the lead arm. The right arm is far more important.
@@AthleticMotionGolf Ok so I guess my question is then, if my lead arm is "straight" then my right arm would maintain the right amount of width in the golf swing correct? Like, I couldn't bend my trail arm way past 90 degrees without starting to also collapse my lead arm
@@StoiccGaming that really depends on arm length and shoulder width, but it can and does happen.
wow can you do a right wrist video too. I noticed your skeleton drawings were correct for the elbow but always showed the wrist as straight!!
Yessir, we're working on growing our wrist numbers data. When we have enough, you guys will see it😉
will be watching for sure
Hey guys, forgot to ask... any drills for this?
I am a low handicap player but also seem to have this issue lately... what do you propose as a drill to work on this? I imagine I would do less of this if I weren’t cupping my wrist so much as well
We see a lot of golfers who try to keep their right arm straight from the very beginning. This almost always leads to the collapse at the top. It helps to allow the right arm to bend early so you can keep it away from you late.
Athletic Motion Golf spot on - I definitely over extend my right arm in the takeaway and came to the same conclusion when working in front of the mirror last night... super helpful, thank you!
My buddy sent me this video the other day...thought...yea another video...woopdee doo...
Watched it anyway...and all of a sudden everything made sense....i notoriously chicken wing 99%of the time....my body and arms are always trying to catch up to my very steep swing...and i never get any distance....not to mention I'm a pretty big guy and its kind of embarrassing....
So today tried it kept my right arm more open instead of trying to squeeze by bicep against my forearm on my back swing......
Results? Took 10 strokes off my avg...
Actually had my best scoring round ever....
Hit my driver about 20 yards more....
And all my irons at least 10-15 yards more....
Hit the ball much more consistently and crisp....had very few mishaps...Still suck but dang what a difference...
Thank you very much for this video...as another person commented loved the comparison between pro vs. Ams....made it super easy to follow Abbas understand what you were saying...
I'll keep you posted on whether today was a fluke or an actual fix!
That's awesome, Bo, thanks for sharing!
You probably have already done one but a pro vs ams on shallowing the club in transition might be cool to see.
Great idea! We'll actually be editing a video tonight that talks more about the shallowing move in the downswing.
Would love to see that.
Hello Sir - So aside from simply "showing" the difference - have you figured out WHY those differences exist? Would love to know. Thanks
Absolutely. This video series is intended to be a reference for comparisons across many different aspects of the swing which is why there isn't much "teaching" in them. We have a lot of those videos shot for release soon. Thank you for watching, Ben!
Is the tour player example here a composite of many players or one player?
it's a real-life tour player representing what a large amount of data regarding right arm bend
@@AthleticMotionGolf perfect. Thank you!
Can you actually with gears trace the path of the right elbow as it relates to the right double plain or the swing plane in general.
What's the "right double plain"? Not sure I'm familiar with that term.
Athletic Motion Golf Right elbow plane not doubled. Sometimes my dictionary changes words after I type or dictate sorry right elbow plane or the swing plane in general I'm seeking more information about the actual path of the right elbow
In other words is the elbow moving up because of the spine till or does it have an independent lifting motion maybe it's in conjunction with the shoulder but that seems to be where I'm having the biggest break down in the lack of my understanding of the golf swing everything else if you working great
Maybe an example would be Rory McIlroy I'm really not interested in Jim Furyk LOL.Or even David Thompson anybody that's the kind of orthodox
The pro is almost certainly Dustin Johnson - easy to recognize because of the very bowed lead wrist at the top of his swing :)
Not DJ but good guess.😊
Perhaps Rahm then? If that's not it I'm giving up since I don't know that many well-known players with that wrist angle haha
berger or spieth?
A big problem I have is my right arm/trail arm gets caught against my side which leaves the club face open and makes me slice the ball bad.
Put a glove under it and try make it fall out in the backswing😉
Love these videos. But to be honest, I would have preferred to see the right arm bone bending from the player's perspective rather than the observer's.
It was confusing for a second to me because I'm used to thinking about from my own angle.
At the top both players have the elbows pointing back. A lot of golf instruction has the elbow pointing down or in front of the hip. Why so much confusion with golf instruction?
Just figure this out hitting balls. I’m trying to keep my left arm straight but then I get rigid. I realized if I don’t bend my RIGHT arm in the backswing as much it fixes the issue. Then started hitting some pure shots
That's some great awareness practice there, Brian - nice!
So what about the pros that have alot more elbow bend?
We've helped a number of them reduce that bend. Just because a pro does something doesn't mean that something is good. They are like the rest of us, they work hard on their swings too.
I got too much bend which leads to hands being way too high in the downswing.
Favorite drill to help the Am who overbends his right arm too much?
One of the oldie but goodies is to play a small ball between the forearms and make 3/4 off-speed swings without dropping the ball in the backswing.
The teaching drill of getting the r/arm vertical like a 'waiter carrying a tray' doesn't seem to fit in with this Shaun. Is that because of the modern 'fashion' of golf swing teaching or was the previous teaching just 'wrong'.?
Think it just depends on the magnitude of the bend. Pros are pretty much 90º or less, most arms are 100º plus.
Sergio Garcia
This is pretty symptomatic, it's probably caused by the inability to rotate the upper torso enough, you can also clearly see that at 3:02 . The only option for the right arm is to bent more towards the top of the backswing and allow the right elbow to go deep.
I'd agree on that.
Pro keeps the leading arm in front of him(?) and rotates the body a lot more.
Amateur move arms behind body to get to a full backswing position for the hands and club.
Trailing arm position and bend is a consequence of that. Root cause is (lack of) torso rotation.
Always thought the arm was the reason for steepness and over the top too bent. I have this. What about the contrast between taking the club inside? It’s my cause for this. Saw some many videos hit the ball from inside so of course I take the club inside to start the swing then I’m bunched and over the top. People when they teach into out swing should clarify that more. You can’t get in to out if you whip it inside unless you do manipulation. You should never bring the club inside to start the backswing. Killed me for years
Thank you for your response - but that's sort of like being in the desert and asking someone "Hey - Do you know where there's water?" and the person answers..."Yes..."
"Ummmmm.... great..... can you tell me Where it is..?"
The video title is right arm bend pros vs ams. The purpose was to discuss the differences. I'm sure you could agree that including all of the reasons why someone might be too narrow would make the video super long. So we opted to cover those reasons in their own videos.
Your videos are very much scientific but only 300k views in 4 years. That's a shame. With these numbers and scientific evidence , everyone should watch these videos.
Or should I say: WHY does the AM have such a narrow hand path?
So this shows that the pros have a gradual unbending of the right arm through the downsing, they are not holding lag which amateurs keep trying to achieve.
In your video that explains left arm bend it must be a different pro because the flexes are totally different
The flexes are actually very similar.
You will instantly add distance following this vid.
Guess Jack Nicklaus didn't get the message on flying right elbow....lol
Respect the Bears hat
Da Bears😊
Lol Ditka or God in a fight.
@@travisbasgall7524 Classic😂
lol by the way good vid. I need help on my takeaways and thru. This helps
The hand hinge for the amateur top of the back swing is too much as well
The amateur in this video looks like the pro from Canada Corey Conners. Not quite, but he has the most arm bend than any other pro out there.
Geo B
😄😄
Geo B 00
Confusing. Graphics are backwards.
The pro looks like Daniel Berger
3:15 is that Dustin Johnson vs the avg sports authority once a month guy. 😂😂😂😂😂
dam the am is coffee cupped as a muthalucker and everyone know that's that dj bowed wrist. 😋
Haha, not DJ but the initials aren't far off😉
Athletic Motion Golf ... 😎
Athletic Motion Golf ... uhmmm at :49 that vertical back swing position, looks like jt Justin Thomas, he's about the only lanky guy with a front on view, I know can get that vertical in the back.
Athletic Motion Golf it's Jordan Spieth.
Its Daniel Berger
Good video but your angles are wrong. Number 1 is a 168 degree angle, not 12 degrees. A 12 degree angle in your arm would mean you're touching your shoulder. 😊
The pro is definitely Daniel Berger
bucknaked999 not Daniel Berger😊
Italian golf lesson
M
So it’s as if he throws the club from the top already
I don’t mean cast I mean he doesn’t hold the angle?
@@Jayman83 bingo👊
all good, but HOW???
My guess in how is depicted by the difference between the pro’s and am’s shoulder turn. The am does not turn as much and the result is a folding in of the right arm in order get club back. The pro gets the club back using the torso and shoulders.
I noticed the difference in their shoulder turn at left arm parallel
It looks like the left arm to me. Looks like a left thumb.
The skeleton is depicting a left arm......look at the hand/fingers.
That's the palm of the right hand rather than the back of it.
You're just comparing one who knows what to do against another who doesn't. I'd like to know what really they are trying to do to hit the ball.
I like you videos but you never really cover how the bone structure prevents many of the comparisons between pro and am. Basically you have a “limitation” because of your physical anatomy and no amount of effort will enable you to get to a pro. If this was not true then anyone could become a pro.
That’s it true at all. Physical limitations is NOT what keeps folks from becoming pros. The thousands of amateur swings we’ve measured are far more complex than the pro swings.
@@AthleticMotionGolf the rational reason amateurs have more complex swings is a result of the body compensating for the “inefficiency” of the body. The pros compensate but not as much because they are more efficient and more optimal body structure. The clinical analysis you perform actually shows this to be true. So in this case “complexity” is a result of physical muscle and or bone structure etc. this does not mean watch you show teach is not valid rather if you analysis deeper you can point ou training drills to “optimize” once structure. An example is improving your flexibility in one’s ankles while improve your balance joints like and rotation.
@@philipkingsworth6638 we often have golfers (older golfers especially) who echo similar thoughts when they come see us. One recent would be a player (62) who came in two weeks ago looking for more distance. His should turn was “limited” to 71 degrees in his backswing. That forced him to over bend his trail arm causing him to cast early and add a ton of loft through impact. We helped him go from 71 to 97 by changing what he was trying to do in his backswing hat gained him 11 mph in about 20 minutes. His comment was “ the his is way simpler than what I was trying to do!”
Another example was a player (57) who couldn’t get “open enough” at impact. Like the first player, his concept for what he thought produced more rotation was not correct. He went from 12 open to 29 open by changing his intent.
Just two recent examples of what we get to see every week. Without any change in the players mobility or physical structure, golfers significantly improve their movement, speed, and efficiency. Physical limitations are rarely the primary limitations keeping players from moving and swinging better.
@@AthleticMotionGolf wow that is impressive. I would pay if you can increase my “driver” speed by 11mph.
For god's sake who cares about the presentation in the box? What do you want; fairy lights and tinsel?
You lost us on this one, Steven.
Sorry, I messed up, crossed message, this was intended to be sent to a website reviewing the new Trackman Mevo. The presenter was carrying on about how the looked in relation to the relative size and decoration of the presentation box when he first opened it. My apologies again. I am unreservedly still a keen follower of your excellent technical presentations on the golf swing!
gotcha😊