PLEASE, you, and EVERYONE, if you haven't already, embrace the One True Only God YHWH Jehovah, Only One Jesus Christ His Only Begotten Son and Lord and Savior of our souls and the Only One Holy Spirit. God is good. God is love. Jesus is Lord. Jesus IS coming. Your soul depends on it! I have seen God act in my life. He saved my soul, changed my heart, changed my mind, helped people through me, took care of people in my life, people I hurt before I found God. God is the only reason I was able to reconcile with my dad before he died. God worked through Jesus Christ to save our souls. Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins. Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and that God raised Him from the dead and you will be saved. Be baptized in The Holy Spirit, and if He wills, water as well. Repent of your sins, accept God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit into your heart, that Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sins. For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son Jesus Christ, that all who believe on Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Jesus Christ is The Way, The Truth and The Life. No one comes to the Father Jehovah God but through Him. Not long after I got saved I prayed to God for help understanding the Holy Bible, and that same day someone knocked on my door asking me if I wanted to understand the Bible. The Holy Bible says, "love thy enemy", "turn the other cheek", "If your enemy is hungry, feed him", "if he is thirsty, give him a drink", "pray for those who persecute you", "do not repay evil for evil". LORD willing, all humans may commit sin of almost every kind (gay, straight), and that's wrong, and all humans sin, as God tells us through the The Holy Bible, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." The Holy Bible also says, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."
This. It doesn’t make sense it would actually be Hayden at the end at his prequel era age. That implies he died then, which undermines Vader’s entire character ark. George Lucas can be, and often has been, objectively creatively wrong (truly a difficult feat), which is something a lot of Star Wars fans today constantly forget it seems.
They probably wanted to cast someone who looked around the same age as Alec Guinness. If Anakin was supposed to look that old when he turned to the dark side, that would mean Obi Wan was probably younger than him even though he was his master.
@@killiter1997 as Quinton mentioned this was a remaster (the _second_ remaster, at that). We used to joke about Lucas' inability to leave the films alone.
my star wars take is that i care more about thematic consistency than logical lore consistency. those first six films might not have particularly airtight internal logic but there is a very strong thematic line about compassion and the power of love which i value more.
Fr fr. That's why Rise of Skywalker was so ughh to me, it felt like everyone was just mean to each other for no reason. Idc about dumbass lore, I just care about how characters act with each other and themes.
I actually have this exact action figure! He was given to me by my neighbor who was moving, who was a star wars fan in the early 90s. My mom, who has seen original and prequel trilogies had no idea what it was and thought it was some weird bootleg. She didn't recognize him as the original anakin, despite the fact she saw return of the jedi in theatres in 1983. However, my dad, who had only seen the original trilogy when they originally came out and never engaged with star wars ever again after recognized him instantly. I just think that experience is reflective of how the history of star wars has been so shifted by the narrative and prequel nostalgia, that my mom didn't recognize the man she saw in theatres 40+ years ago...
Hayden Christian has talked about watching the Clone Wars show to prepare for playing Anakin in Ahsoka, so I could totally see him studying that Sebastian Shaw scene to get a similar delivery for the Kenobi show.
I feel like the main thing people seem to forget when it comes to prequel nostalgia vs potential sequel nostalgia is that there is a much larger volume of prequel media to be nostalgic for. Whether you liked them or not, between 1999 and 2012, the prequels WERE Star Wars with the most noteworthy pieces of Star Wars media being made at that time either taking place during the prequels or attempting to bridge the gap between the the prequel trilogy and the original trilogy. Meanwhile, the sequel trilogy's time in the spotlight lasted from 2015 to 2019, only to then get outshined by The Mandalorian before Rise of Skywalker even came out in theaters. And when the sequel trilogy had its moment to shine, it still needed to share that time with other pieces of Star Wars media that had little to no connections to the sequel trilogy (Rogue One, Rebels, Solo, Fallen Order, etc) along with many pieces of Star Wars media at the time putting the current trilogy more or less on the same pedestal as the other two trilogies rather than letting it take center stage. Most importantly, I feel like potential sequel trilogy nostalgia is hurt solely on the basis that the sequel trilogy never got its Clone Wars equivalent (and Resistance doesn't count). Specifically, it never got a series that took place in between the films that allowed audiences to spend more time with the characters introduced in those films as well as expand on things that worked about the films but weren't fully explored and recontextualize things that might not have worked in the films (mainly when it comes to episode 9) on top of making the movies feel more interconnected as a result. I also feel the need to acknowledge that the reason Clone Wars is an important part of prequel nostalgia is that it came out AFTER the prequel trilogy concluded so there was no risk of anything in the show getting retconned by a later film and it allowed the brand to stay relevant for almost a decade after the movies ended. But due to the backlash after the release of The Last Jedi, the executives got cold feet and when they had another Star Wars property to latch onto (The Mandalorian) the sequel trilogy immediately became the forgotten middle child who didn't even have the chance to redeem itself. Is that fair to the sequel trilogy and the characters introduced in those films? No, not in the slightest. As flawed and messy as the sequel trilogy is, there's still a lot of potential with that era of the franchise and I personally feel that it's wrong to just pretend that they don't matter. But a decent chunk of the modern Star Wars fandom (or the Dave Filoni fandom if we're being honest) wants those three films erased from existence and for the time being, it looks like they got their wish
these are my exact thoughts too. while i'm looking forward to eventual ST nostalgia (as someone who loved TLJ and didn't mind/mostly liked both TFA and TROS - although i have criticisms of all three of them), i don't think it's gonna happen the same way all this PT nostalgia happened. after TLJ's backlash, Disney wanted to get a broader audience on their side again, and tried to achieve this with both TROS and The Mandalorian. they went all-in on Grogu as a cute, easy means to appeal to the masses, and when TROS released in theaters and was subsequently panned, they used the hype for Grogu and the show as a failsafe, with interconnecting stories following suit. that's what everyone (particularly younger fans) is/are gonna remember from this time period. a sequel renaissance will happen (hell, people are gonna look back on Solo in a similar manner), but in tandem with fans looking back more on the onslaught of other SW media on Disney+, relegating those films to the sidelines, or as you said "forgotten middle children". the one thing that might change this is the release of the New Jedi Order film, because many viewers (regardless of their overall thoughts on the ST) either loved Daisy Ridley or wanted to see her take on the role with a different screenwriter in tow. when that film eventually releases, you'll likely see a number of viewers giving the ST another shot, recontextualizing their content, warts and all. but it doesn't help that two of the four films on the release schedule are continuations of/interconnected with all the shows in the New Republic era, and that many of these shows have more seasons or new additions on the way. only time will tell if Disney decides to revisit the ST era with more content the way they've been doing for the PT and OT, but until that happens (if it happens), the New Jedi Order film will most likely be the catalyst for it.
I agree with you in a lot of ways but I'm also not sure if a Clone Wars type series for the sequels would even work. I really do not think those movies have as much to explore and expand on as the prequels did because so much of their identity is based on rehashing the original trilogy. The choice to blow up the new republic as a way to sort of wipe the slate clean/reset the status quo in Force Awakens was maybe one of the worst things they could have done because it instantly made the world so much smaller and killed a lot of the potential for new stories. There's also the fact that I think Rise of Skywalker is so bad that it retroactively makes the entire trilogy worse and at least personally speaking killed almost any interest I have in revisiting that side of the franchise. Despite all that I do think people will start having more nostalgia for them and I think Disney will try to push those movies more in the future, we're already getting a new Rey movie and I honestly hope its good but im not sure if that'll be enough. I'm not against trying to salvage the sequels I honestly do like a lot of characters and ideas from them but I remain very skeptical that the sequels could have a renaissance to the same extent the prequels did.
I mean, most of the books that expand on Luke, Han and Leia’s journey after VI came out during the prequels. There was also a big Old Republic push at that time as well. Most prequel media made during the prequels were video games, books and comics that took place in between the time gaps in the prequels. Media “bridging the gap” didn’t really happen until after 2005, and there really isn’t that much of it compared to the massive volume of media set before I, between I and II, during the Clone Wars, and after VI. For the sequels there is Galaxy’s Edge, Star Wars: Resistance and a lot of books and comic books set during the sequel era. There’s only half a year between VIII and IX to work with, but there’s a shocking amount that’s actually supposed to take place then. I think you’re forgetting the possibility of media set after IX or during the lead up to VII being created when fans are more accepting of it. Once that Rey movie comes out, the flood gates are open to make media set in that 15 year gap. Filoni’s plan is probably to bridge the gap between his movies/shows and the sequels too.
Yeah, I've said for years that the sequel trilogy's biggest reason it won't have that reevaluation in, like, the diehard fandom of people who buy SW books, video games, and can name individual ship classes, not the casuals who just watch the movies and shows or the rightist culture warriors who are also just as shallow about it, is that. At its core, nobody's a fan of Star Wars without extraneous material propping it up. The Clone Wars tv show made the prequels better because any depiction of the Clone Wars makes the prequels better. The old Star Wars multi-media project that did the Clone Wars before the tv show cannibalized it for parts made the prequels better. Every single person who comments on Star Wars and its obsessive fandom who hates everything that came out forgets that anything besides the movies and tv show exist. Books were the fourth most profitable thing in the Star Wars brand when Disney declared them non-canon. The prequels are awful by themselves, and it makes sense why people hate them if they didn't engage with anything else from that era. It's harder to do something like that for the sequel era, though. You can't tell when something is set in the sequel or OT era without some signifier like referencing a character because the sequels' design philosophy was so reliant on OT nostalgia. That's why I'm a rare oldhead who liked The Last Jedi. Stuff looked different in that, some stuff, anyway, but I digress. Is that X-Wing in Resistance colors or is it just a Rebel squadron who wanted to paint their X-Wing a certain way? The First Order heavy vehicle is just an AT-AT with frontloading and another gun on top. It's just "Imperial, but more." What if you want to make something in the OT era with a lot of guns on it? Lucas made a good call ordering CIS stuff to be designed initially like rebel stuff and expand from there. Round guys bad, doritos good, prequel era. Round guys good, dorito bad, original *and* sequel era. Anything you set in the OT era, with only some story modification you can set in the sequel era, and vice versa. Disney seeks to milk all eras besides the Old Republic, so a lot of stuff you can choose to set in one, you could set in the other, and without homework, the same thing people say is killing the MCU, casual fans probably can't tell.
Kind of like how Ewan McGregor has stated on many occasions that he puts on a bit of a different voice as Obi-Wan so he can sound a bit more like Alec Guinness, I love the idea that Hayden Christensen was trying to make himself sound a little bit like Sebastian Shaw during that one moment. Honestly didn't even catch it before, but after watching that clip a few times I think he's definitely trying to imitate Shaw there
I was actually thinking about Sebastian Shaw's Anakin a couple days ago. There's a new Lego Star Wars animated short coming to Disney+ later this year for the 25th anniversary of Lego Star Wars with "what if?" versions of characters from Star Wars like Darth Jar Jar as seen in the trailer, and to coincide with the special's release they're putting out a "Dark Millennium Falcon" set with some of these what if characters. One of those characters is Darth Vader in all-white armor from an old Star Wars what if comic called Star Wars: Infinities. A few days ago an image of the minifigure of the white Darth Vader leaked online and it showed that the Anakin Skywalker head underneath the Darth Vader helmet is based on Sebastian Shaw and not Hayden Christensen. I was really surprised to see Lego pay homage to him and I'm curious to see if that detail will be brought up in the animated special.
honestly i feel shaw was always meant to represent old Anakin and not anakin when he died and became vader, this is my first time ever hearing people think otherwise
as a 36 year old who mostly checked out of Star Wars after Episode 9, this entire discussion is fucking wild to me. the idea that anyone would LIKE having Hayden in Episode 6, let alone it being taken for granted by modern fans, feels completely incongruous with my perception of these movies. and I'm not even someone who has it out for the prequels - Episode 1 came out when I was 9 and was Peak to me then. weird, wild stuff.
I'll be 36 next month and this is my exact experience as well. I posted to my IG stories a couple of weeks ago that I was watching the theatrical cut of Star Wars '77 and one of my younger followers responded with, "Whoa, you mean the version where Jabba is just a fat old white dude??" and I was completely gobsmacked that Lucas has done such a thorough job papering over the original cuts that some folks can't even conceive that the Jabba scene wasn't in the film at all at one point.
Sebastian Shaw is a name that I know by heart for his small appearance and always have. Idk why i have space in my brain for remembering him and not other actors who have done more things that ive actually seen
I love the idea that Hayden was imitating Shaw's performance and I totally believe it. You're on point with that one. I've been out of online star wars circles since TROS came out and honestly just broke my heart after loving the OT, PT, 7, 8 and the cartoons beforehand. But it seemed to me like Hayden was really coming back around to the whole thing and was a fan himself, i almost find it hard to believe that given the opportunity to reclaim his reputation after his original reception in the prequels he *wouldn't* try to imitate Shaw for an older Anakin. I cant believe I didn't pick up on that when I watched Kenobi. Big up the big man Sebastian Shaw, respect.
I grew up on the Prequels and I too remember all the discourse and pure hatred levied at those films and the strange reverence that they now have. The lack of self-awareness of some of the fans who just endlessly criticize anything new that comes out is mind boggling
I love this style of you just casually talking to the camera. It makes me feel like I’m listening to a friend infodump about something interesting that I don’t know much about.
For me part of what makes the character of Anakin Skywalker special is that he is constructed by the performance of many people in live action and animated media. Even in the precuels alone he is portrayed by 3 persons (not counting doubles). Even with Hayden Christensen as the definitive pre Vader version of Anakin, Sebastian Shaw will always be the original redeemed Anakin and therefore an important part of who Anakin is as a character.
I remember being a teenager during the Disney acquisition and how it felt seeing the prequels, the Star Wars movies i grew up with and loved being relentlessly ahit on and having their positive aspects not even acknowledged, let alone discussed. And that's why im not nearly as brutal in my sequel criticisms as many people my age are (that and being so obsessed with films i don't like is pretty unhealthy). The children of today will grow up to have seen something in the sequels that i didn't and I'm very curious to see what it is.
One interesting take I heard about The Last Jedi specifically was, "Why don't we hear from the defenders of it anymore hm?" and the response was, "Because we enjoyed it and moved on with our lives instead of making hating it our entire identity." It will be very strange seeing fresh eyes coming to Rise of Skywalker and treating it like Return of The Jedi. "Yeah it's worse than the others but it's still good."
@@Cdr2002 "I sleep in a bed that's shaped like a race car while hating The Last Jedi." "...I sleep in a big bed with my wife and watch lots of different movies."
@@Cdr2002 my ex best friend would always groan and growl and act like he was in pain everytime I said I liked The Last Jedi or praised anything about it. It was so fucking cringe and annoying.
I feel like I had my childhood Star Wars phase at an awkward time. I was in late elementary school when the prequels started coming out, and I was in late high school when they wrapped up. I started out young enough to enjoy Episode 1 for how goofy and kid-friendly it was, and I ended old enough to be a jaded teen who thought Episodes 2 and 3 were hot garbage. The most genuine Star Wars nostalgia I have is for that brief period you mentioned in the late 90’s when the Special Editions and all that expanded media were coming out. So, you’d think I would be more nostalgic for the original trilogy than the prequels. I am to some extent, but not nearly as much as I am about other media from my childhood. I knew at the time that the versions of the movies I was watching weren’t how they were “supposed” to be. So, despite loving those movies, there was always a slight distance there too. Honestly, the most nostalgic pieces of Star Wars media you could put in front of me would be books like Tales from Jabba’s Palace or The Mandalorian Armor (incidentally, the fact that everyone knows the term “Mandalorian” now is SUCH a trip to me). I haven’t gotten to re-read any of that stuff in a long time, but I remember feeling way more invested in the world of Star Wars by reading various books and comics than I did watching the movies. Probably because expanding the world is what they were designed to do, but also because for a long time, that WAS the current Star Wars - it was “my” Star Wars. So it feels a bit weird seeing such hardline defenders of both the original trilogy and the prequels in different fan spaces. I did fall more in line with the prequel haters for a while, especially during the Plinkett boom of the late naughts. After living with someone slightly younger than me who adores the prequels, though, I’ve mellowed out a lot and come around more to the way of thinking presented in this video. What Star Wars is - and what Star Wars *nostalgia* is - is going to keep changing over time, and I think it’s important to keep perspective on that. I’m very curious about how kids growing up with the sequel trilogy and expanded media now are going to talk about these things in 10-15 years. …I’m especially curious how they’re going to defend The Rise of Skywalker, because what the F- Anyway, good vid! Thanks for sharing, I enjoy your thoughts as always.
I work with a guy who was a baby when the prequels finished, so he is specifically nostalgic for those, having watched them many times growing up and watched all the animated shows. Then he grew into a teen and experienced the sequels, being hype for each one, and literally says TROS is his favorite Star Wars film. I've made myself sit down and watch TROS through his eyes, trying to see what he sees, and I will admit that I sort of see it now. It's not the worst thing ever to me anymore, I don't hate it. So I can easily imagine defenders in the future and eventually fans and people nostalgic for the sequel story.
I think TROS is kind of the perfect modern Star Wars movie for a prequel kid. It’s strengths are the same as what I feel that trilogy does the best: big exciting dynamic action scenes and entertaining character banter that ensure it’ll be a fun ride even if there are plot details that can be picked apart
@@Cdr2002 And I think that's where I finally allowed myself to be okay with it. I enjoy the action set piece that is a cavalry charge on the top of a Star Destroyer, the lightsaber handoff is literally one of the coolest things in the sequel trilogy, and some of the emotional beats, such as the scene with Han Solo and in the final confrontation with Palpatine are pretty affecting. The trick is allowing yourself to be affected by them. It's not a terrible movie, but I really do just wish Disney would put their big boy pants back on and make some more films in that continuity.
@@muticere Absolutely. I have my hopes for that upcoming Rey-focused new Jedi order movie. And yeah, while I don’t love a lot of Rise of Skywalker as the conclusion to the story set up by the other two movies, it has lots of really good moments and lots of aspects that are well-executed even if I disagree with them as a writing choice for a thing to do. It’s a really fun watch if you like you said, one lets themselves relax a little
As someone who grew up with the Prequels (simultaneously with the OT), and was firmly on the hype train for the Sequels and still loves The Last Jedi, I really just cannot see any merit at all in TROS beyond half-decent spectacle, even when I try. It is one of the most cynical films I've ever seen.
I can hear it. I remember when I first watched that scene in Kenobi, I didn't think it was Hayden. We knew it was, since he was in the series earlier and all the marking hyped it up, but he put on SUCH a different voice in that scene it felt like a totally different person. I didn't think we was mimicking Shaw per say, but he did sound older, deeper, with some kind. of accent and cadence that wasn't his own, much like the performance that Shaw gave. It wouldn't surprise me if Hayden did do it as a reference on purpose since he REALLY cares about Anakin and Star Wars. Now to add a bit. of a nerdy nitpick: To me the argument about Obiwan wearing a desert disguise in EP4 has always run real hollow to me since, sure at a glance its like he's trying to look like a tusken raider. or something, but then he's still dressed like that in EP5 and EP6 as a force ghost. And when Luke is a jedi in EP6 he has black robes on. Even yoda has them in EP5 and EP6 too.
I've been saying the same thing about the next generation of Star Wars nostalgia for a few years now but I've always been afraid to say it online. The "worst" version of a franchise will always be the first, best, and most pivotal version to someone out there.
Old man Star Wars fan here, and I could not agree more with you Quinton! I still preach the hot take of "yoda and palpatine should be above lightsabers!" Also I will NEVER forgive them for changing Boba Fett's original voice actor in Empire. Quinton I think a very similar discussion to be had concerning Boba and his latest actor Temuera Morrison. And Ashley and Ahsoka.
The recent SW book shadow of the sith had it where Anakin saved old luke as a force ghost and the book describes that Anakin’s appearance kept shifting between young Hayden and old Sebastian Shaw and I think not only is it cool fan service it’s just incredibly interesting and a melding of both eras and what I thought would happen in live action if it were to happen but now it’s all Hayden rn as Ahsoka depicts it
I am the youngest of 5. My oldest brother being 10 years older than me. As a result I grew up not watching the prequels but watching my brothers vhs copies of the original trilogy which meant I had the non special editions. I remember going to a friends house one day to hang out and his dad had the remasters on the tv, specifically the ending of return of the Jedi. Let me tell you I was soooo confused why Darth Vader was suddenly young again as a ghost and none of my friends could even begin to understand what I was talking about. His dad explained that they changed the movies and I got really upset thinking that my copy was also changed and I would never be able to watch the originals again
Honestly I never really noticed Hayden putting on a bit of an accent for Kenobi but I like that, it would make sense in canon since so many people in the empire have a British accent and he’s been around them for about 10 years during Kenobi and about 24-25 by return of the Jedi so I could see the accent imprinting on the way he speaks considering he rarely gets to talk without the helmet
14:09 that’s crazy because I was rewatching that movie earlier this week and thought “damn how does that guy looks just like Hayden Christiansen” I thought I was losing it
honestly that bothers me more than hayden-anakin in return of the jedi. at least sebastian shaw gets to play anakin for one scene of that movie. jason wingreen’s five entire lines of boba fett dialogue are just… gone.
@@sunrise.system I'd personally say the same thing about Shaw and Wingreen's work being replaced that I do about the majority of the special edition changes - I think it's fine to make these changes and bring them in line with the prequels, IF the original versions of those performances were still widely available to see
That wouldn't have bothered me quite so much if the lines they had Temuera record to replace them didn't sound so phoned in. He's definitely done a lot better performances as Boba in recent years but those Special Edition lines.....
Another brand of Star Wars guy I just haven't seen in forever is the person who loves New Hope and Empire, but despises The Return of the Jedi. I'm 28 but in my teens I had a comic that was pretty much just a collection of Boba Fett short stories and in that comic was an ad for a comic run of Return that touted "Now with 100 percent less Ewoks" as a major selling point. I feel like the Expanded Universe at the time following Return was appealing directly to that flavor of nostalgia before people who saw Return as a kid grew up and started contributing. After the last of the prequels came out I remember seeing someone state something along the lines of "Star Wars is a six film series in which only two films are good" which I feel is a sentiment I don't see echoed online too often these days.
In 1993 Topps made a card depicting a younger Anakin with a baby Luke and Luke and Leia’s then unnamed mother. Lucas ordered it pulled from the set because he was making the prequels.
It certainly is an interesting phenomena. I talk with my dad about star wars and I'm not like a prequel lover or anything but it's kind of fascinating how his childhood in the 80s shaped what star was is in a completely different way from what star wars is to me who watched it in the 2000s, and it'll probably be different again in another 20 years. I think one aspect that shows that off is boba fett. My dad grew up with an unironic love of boba fett, he thinks he's so cool. I grew up with the discourse having changed since then, "oh he's kind of a derp, he jetpacks himself into the sarlac pit"
I went to a vintage collectibles store last week with my partner and saw that Shaw figure for the very first time. The box was low detail and just had his bald egg head on it, and when I opened the front cover to see what it was I was absolutely astounded. I didn't buy it, but it is by far one of the most unique and interesting pieces of SW merchandise I've ever seen.
Quinton you’re not alone. I also heard the Sebastian Shaw impression in that line. I feel like most don’t notice it because they don’t really think about Sebastian Shaw in that scene, it’s also pretty subtle, at least to me
Had to relearn this the hard way a couple years ago after avoiding fandom spaces for easily a decade. Just an absolutely miserable experience between 2 fandoms that still triggers me years later.
I had this thought about nostalgia around the same time The Last Jedi came out. I don't know or remember if it was a coincidence or it was Prequel fans taking the opportunity to say Prequels were better, but I remember seeing people nostalgic for the prequels. It was interesting. And it made me realize there was a cycle of nostalgia for Star Wars. And since Last Jedi hate was strong around this period, I came to the same conclusion that our little siblings or kids will go through the same thing. They won't see the Sequels as blemish in Star Wars but as a part of Star Wars, warts and all. The Prequels are messy, the sequels are messy, but nostalgia can bend cynicism but also create it like what happened to Original trilogy fans and, eventually, prequel fans. At the end of the day, so long as no one is getting hurt, like what you like. Your movies are not going away(unless they are written off or Special Editioned... keep back ups too).
Not a star war person remotely but this was a fascinating video. You can see this pattern play out in Pokemon discussion as well, just with a shorter timeframe. Debating anything Pokemon kind of runs into the Thing that pretty much every single discussion about which game or generation is best is decided solely by nostalgia (except for the most recent games, I think, discussions around performance and graphics feel like a new element to the conversation loop?) Fascinating to hear about original trilogy nostalgia being replaced by prequel nostalgia, and yeah, in a few years we're going to have people who grew up with the sequels old enough to defend them on the internet and be picked for that nostalgia. Odd how that works but that's what happens.
I think that your point is accurate about how Sequel Trilogy kids will grow up to define the next era of the brand, but i will add on the wrinkle which is that by this time in the previous trilogy cycle, Clone Wars had started, which, imho, did a lot to build the mythos of that world with the target audience of Star Wars (kids who grew up with the prequels). So much of the current "Star Wars Fandom Vogue" and reassessment of the Prequel trilogy borrows a lot from how much work the Clone Wars did to expand on the concepts from those movies, and, at least right now, the Sequels don't have that kind of project. The current live action shows are set between the OT and ST eras, but do lean pretty heavily on concepts/iconography from the Original Trilogy. As one of the 12 people who really likes all of the sequels, I do kinda hope that we get passionate creatives who can make something like the Clone Wars for this new Sequel Era, flesh out more of that side of the timeline, and allow a lot of the anger and vitriol towards "New Star Wars bad. My Star Wars Better" that used to be the Prequels territory to settle down
Quinton, I think I'm on the same page as you here. I never noticed or thought that Christensen was trying to sound like Shaw in his performance in the Kenobi show, but now that you pointed it out, I hear it, and I love it. That's how you bridge the gap between the prequel and the originals, not by retconning the originals but by bringing the two worlds together. (I also look forward to the day when the Sequel era is looked back on nostalgiclu gets fleshed out with more spin-offs, as I think it will add a lot to the lore. Overall I just like star wars)
After watching a lot of Star Wars videos today, this was a great capstone. I've heard the idea of the Star Wars fandom's generational cycle discussed somewhat frequently for the last 7 years, but this is best summation of the concept. If we go by the division of the three trilogies, then the recurrence of this cycle is still relatively new. But this phenomena has already been observed in other franchises. For example, despite being a younger series, Pokemon has already had 9 generations (defined by new batches of Pokemon designs around every 3-4 years). The nostalgia cycle is very well understood by Pokemon fans, so it is kinda funny seeing Star Wars fans that are blind to the coming Sequel renaissance.
I feel like the two ghosts say two different things - Sebastian Shaw implies little parts of Anakin resided in Vader the whole time, finally emerging when it came time to kill the Emperor. - Hayden Christensen implies that Anakin died in Revenge of the Sith.
I know this is kind of a deep cut, but The Clone Wars episode "Deception" Obi-Wan was disguised as a bounty hunter called Rako Hardeen, and while speaking to the Jedi Council about his progress he used the code name "Ben," meaning that not only did he just use his real last name, but he also reused an alias of his for his first name. He barely changed his name. Why are we expecting him to have changed his clothing style?
Would Sebastian Shaw care? I’m legitimately curious on what his position would be. Because given his work experience I don’t know if he would. I grew up with the Prequels and all that, and I can accept Anakin sounding British because he’s been surrounded by British people for 20ish years and eventually you just accept that.
I think a problem with nostalgia for the sequel trilogy is that there's no media for that era outside the movies. The prequels had games, comics and more importantly tv shows. There have been no tv shows or games with Rey, Finn, or Poe after the movies and barely any comics or books. A lot of prequel fans say they're prequel fans but ask them why they love the prequels and 90% of the time they'll mention the clone wars. Sequel fans don't have a clone wars and that's a shame. A shame with how quickly Disney abandoned the characters and story and tried to bury it. They denied these characters a second chance for them to be loved. The sequel trilogy ended in a dumpster fire but they deserved a second chance. They had potential and something that could be salvaged, but they didn't. I think people will feel nostalgia for the mandalorian series, but it's only roughly connected to the sequel trikogy. There's a Rey series coming soon, but it should've came sooner. It's been half a decade since the rise of Skywalker.
I mean, Rey’s at Disney parks, so that’s probably something I looked up a list of characters, and apparently Boba Fett appears too. I imagine they resurrected him just so he could be part of their canon-compliant amusement park.
Do the LEGO specials and Lego Skywalker Saga game count? But yeah. I could actually see a good place for a Clone Wars-esk midquel show set in the gap between Episode 8 and 9 to flesh out the sequel trilogy characters.
Seeing a new upload from Quinton on Star Wars while building the LEGO UCS Star Destroyer was like experiencing Christmas morning again while unboxing the stuff I already got for Christmas that morning
I went out of my way to kind a Kenner Sebastian Shaw action figure, because I loved his performance, and also thought it was upsetting he was erased in the force ghost scene. He did such a terrific job.
I was a 90s kid and while I didn't care much about SW, my best friend and her dad were so I remember the prequel era really well yeah, fans hated it so much. It blows my mind that you now get people who actually defend the films as the norm. You're spot on with the nostalgia cycle, I'm also a Pokemon fan since the 90s so I've seen it there. Gen 5 was never disliked, more like forgotten, but then the last few years you'd think it's the definitive Pokemon experience (it's not, you were just 12 when it came out!) Now the nostalgia has been moving on to gen 6, which has been absolutely hated prior.
As a Star Wars fan, I avoid Star Wars fandom like the plague outside of some specific, pre-vetted sources. The number one factor is the bigotry, but a secondary thing that I find so strange with Star Wars Discourse(tm) is the insistence on treating all Star Wars media like glimpses into an internally consistent universe rather than different works that seek some consistency in setting but also pick, choose and alter in service of telling the story they want to tell. Disney seems to try to cater to that first point of view, maybe because the vocal parts of the fandom clamor for it and they want their money, but I can't take too much "X thing in Y movie doesn't make sense because Z" when Star Wars making sense has historically been secondary to trying to make a compelling story.
I have actually seen fans unironically asking Disney to replace A New Hope's Obi wan vs Vader duel with SC 38 Reimagined on the comment section of that video. This is the absolute state of the star wars fandom
I initially thought Hayden’s broken speech pattern in kenobi was a bit odd, but after seeing your Sebastian Shaw connection the acting choice makes a lot more sense.
The idea of wanting Sebastian Shaw's performance as unmasked Vader replaced to make it fit the Anakin performance in the prequels is so insane to me because like... if you can imagine that alternative version of the scene, then surely you don't actually need an edited version of the movie that includes it. The perceived continuity error can already be resolved in your mind's eye, you can fill in the gap the same way that you can figure out what's happened when a character changes clothes between shots. It really speaks to me of a misunderstanding of what movies are. Like, they aren't a historical record of a fictional world. They're performances of stories. If you watched productions of different entries in the Henriad performed by different companies, you wouldn't get mad that the guys playing Falstaff gave different performances.
I grew up with the prequels being marketed everywhere and loving Clone Wars but I had never watched the original ones. I remember my mom's sister bought the VHS trilogy one day and all my cousins and aunts and uncles sat down to watch Star Wars for the entire day and when Darth Vader takes off his helmet I remember the shock that went through my small little 8 year old body. Granted I watched it in LatAm Spanish, but Sebastian did such a god tier job at leaving such a big impression on me and my cousins. Hayden and Sebastian NEED to exist together as the face of Anakin. It's just necessary. Just like how we don't erase old man Obi Wan. Cus it's where the characters ended up. 🫡
I may be outing myself as an idiot, but because I only ever watched the original trilogy as a child, I always thought that third ghost was Uncle Owen. I didn't know it was supposed to be Anakin probably until after the change was made.
I’ve seen the first six movies a ton of times and have nostalgia for all of them… but I’ve literally never noticed that Anakin’s accent in Episode VI is British lol. And I couldn’t imagine caring if I had. I love Shaw’s performance in Jedi and I’ll be really sad if it ever gets officially wiped.
I still remember my college friend group and I marathoning RedLetterMedia video essays tearing apart the prequels. He even threw a copy into the toilet.
My headcanon is that after 20 something years of being around british people, he got the accent like how you can gain a accent if you go to a different country for Long enough
I just realized that Shaw is wearing the same robes as Obi-Wan when he comes back as a ghost, which implies that that really is the standard Jedi uniform. Imagine if, when he appeared, he was wearing a shiny metallic cape with stars embroidered on to it, a high collar up to his ears, thigh-high shaggy boots, a rubber unitard, and a big utility belt with a buckle that says "May the force be with you" on it.
Well, remember that Anakin grew up on Tatooine, the robes Ben Kenobi wears are almost identical to the desert robes worn by Anakin's brother, Owen. Think about it this way, when Anakin came back as a force ghost clad in the desert robes he would've worn in his younger days, before being trained by Obi Wan
Are there people that really think the sequels will always be hated? As someone who grew up with the crappy prequels and has a sense of nostalgia for that era, it only makes sense that the same thing will happen once the next batch of Star Wars fans grow up. Anyone that sees your hot take as a hot take really isn’t paying attention.
There's already some people who are willing to see the good parts of the sequels. I was born in the early 90s, so I had seen the originals several times before the prequels came out, and even I like some parts of the sequels. I like TR-8R, I like the throne room fight, I like Luke's "fight" with Kylo at the end of TLJ, I like the Holdo Maneuver, and I liked most of Kylo's scenes through the whole trilogy. There's good things in those movies, if you're willing to admit it. I have massive nostalgia for the prequels, _and_ for the originals, but even I am willing to admit that the sequels aren't entirely bad. The problem with the sequels is that they had no overarching plan, and Abrams was _too much_ of a fan of the originals, so the sequels ended up being slapdash and too reliant on nostalgia. Like, literally "clap when you see it" level stuff. Even someone like me is a little taken out of the moment when it's that bad.
The stance I see is that the sequels are too cynical and vapid in their creation to be remembered fondly, unlike the pure yet flawed prequels. I've always felt that was narrow minded. They're just way too popular to miss out on some sort of nostalgic resurgence. I will say, though, I would not be surprised if that resurgence takes a bit longer than it did for the prequels, only because it feels like we're still submerged in that era to some extent. I think nostalgia tends to favor things that are distant and abandoned to some degree.
@@PaintraSeaPeaIDK man, I agree it's very corporate and bland, but you have to remember people still eat up the MCU, I don't think it's unlikely that this vapid shit will have people saying it's great when they're older. That said, something a lot of people talk about rn is: will this generation have nostalgia in the way we all do as so much media now is designed around recreating other people's nostalgia. I find, anecdotally, a lot of young people now define themselves by a sense of No-stalgia (being nostalgic for stuff before your time) saying they were born in the wrong generation as all the media they grew up on portrayed the idealised versions of the past
I'm pretty sure the intention wasn't Sebastian Shaw was what Anakin looked like when "he died" and became Darth Vader. It's just his normal body but healed of all his scars, and hair returned. Or, as others have put it, "what he would look like if he never turned to the dark side". He's the same age unmasked, so I don't think they were saying he was only Vader for a couple years.
I'd always figured that Anakin's Force Ghost was old because it represented who Anakin was when he died, so it represented him in his last moments. As for why Anakin looked so old? They could've just established in the prequels that prolonged use of the Dark Side increases your aging or something.
Honestly, and this is a rare take but I just happen to be right... The "Clone Wars" should have been like 20 years of events. There should have been a 20-year gap between Episodes 2 and 3, or maybe Episode 1 should have been the start to the wars, etc. "Clone Wars" implies multiple conflicts (Clone War I, Clone War II) and a war of 2-3 years just doesn't have as much weight.
Seeing Hayden Christensen go from being so hated for his portrayal of Anakim that he had to leave the industry to being constantly praised for the same portrayal has been one of the most bizarre changes I've ever seen. It always kind of confused me. This makes perfect sense.
My friend just showed me something interesting. If you turn off the color of your TV and play the Prequel Trilogy in Japanese suddenly all the awkward and insane decisions George made make sense. They're still bad, but they make sense. the stilted dialogue, harsh lighting, the sheer melodrama. They all feel like they come straight from a samurai movie.
15:16 Having the Force ghost of Anakin be Sebastian Shaw makes more sense because it reinforces the point that Luke was successful in turning Anakin back to his healthy mental self before his death. “There’s still good in you.” Sebastian also actually reacts to his friend, Obi-Wan, in such a way as to show there really was friendship between them. I enjoy seeing him look directly at Luke with pride.
I thought I was losing my mind because I had the exact same experience you did regarding Sebastian Shaw just a few days ago. I was watching the change log to new fanedits of the original trilogy called the Final Cut. The goal of the edits was to basically insert all the uncontroversial special edition changes in (e.g. the enhanced lightsaber effects, the new Cloud City backdrops, "Close the blast doors!") But among those additions was Hayden at the end of RotJ with a filter or deepfake or something to make him look like he did in Ahsoka, and all the comments about it were all in favor. I was extremely fascinated because up until then I thought everybody despised that change Also, I haven't seen Obi-Wan Kenobi yet, but that absolutely is a Sebastian Shaw impression
Here before they do another cut of TPM that completely replaces Jake Lloyd with an uncanny valley model of Hayden Christensen based on his appearance in Family Passions, using an AI voice cloner of his kid voice to redo young Anakin's lines.
If Star Wars ever declined, it was when characters became secondary to T H E L O R E Also shoutout to that dude who said I was an NPC for even hinting at some enjoyment of the sequels.
That's something that I really feel is pervasive throughout the Disney+ stuff, post-Mando Season 1 (and aside from Andor of course). Everything feels like it's just about The Lore.
My favorite byproduct of this is the cancelled Topps card from 1993 which shows early, nameless imaginings of Anakin and Padme (before they were called that), where Anakin looks like an older Mark Hamill. Like, similar to how Hamill actually ended up looking in Last Jedi.
My reaction when I heard his voice in kenobi was he was trying to mimic James Earl Jones' speech pattern for the voice switching. I think he did the same thing near the end of revenge of the sith too.
As a Star Wars fan who watched all three prequels on release night and participated in the discourse: that wasn’t why people were mainly upset. A lot of it was the dialogue and lack of character development. Like a huge portion.
Quinton I'm with you, Sebastian Shaw was done dirty, he really deserves more love today, I 100% disagree with people liking Hayden being added to Return of the Jedi, and I grew up with the prequels.
Holy hell, I had that figure as a kid, no idea where it is now, but yeah. Also now that you point it out, Hayden is 100% paying homage to Shaw in that scene. Excellent catch!
This is such a nice little video. Had no idea there was a Sebastian Shaw Anakin figure at any point in history (I was born months after the Special Editions). This is also just a unique SW video on this site in general. Would love more of these in the future. About that Hayden clip in Kenobi, I never registered that he was doing Shaw's voice, just thought "Oh that's his running out of breath voice." But now I can't unhear it.
I just turned 28 and I've been into star wars my whole life, I honestly tend to like all things star wars, but I have to say the way that people in the star wars fandom talk about new pieces of star wars media has always pissed me off, like every time we get to a new generation of star wars you always get people who watched an older generation as kids and they can't fucking stand how the new kids films being released in this series of kids films are aimed at a new generation of kids, how they handle things differently, or aren't aimed at people in there thirties, and it honestly just makes it harder to go back and enjoy the older stuff, because I end up associating it with all the shitty butthurt shit that the most vocal parts of the fandom have to say
Yeah I’m not offended by Hayden being in the original trilogies now in the same active anger way I was as a kid and my dad made a point to show me the OG stuff growing up. But it is still a haunting offense where, like… this dude was in the movie, in a way he can be visibly recognized as the actor he is, and instead he got wiped out and literally unless you know the trivia you’d have no idea it existed. It’s just a general frustration and unease about George Lucas being George Lucas, basically
I agree with almost everything except saying that the director of Return of the Jedi knew what he was doing, when Lucas had to step in for most of it 💀💀
My theory for the explanation for the Jedi robes is that the Jedi dress code was basically popularized at a time where they lived mostly on a dessert planet. My guess is that planet was Jeddah.
a sequel nostaglia based era coming up isn't just a theory, that's just the pattern at this point. and to be honest, i am excited for it. because the prequels got retroactivly more fun with things like clone wars so if we can fill in the world around the messy hell that is the sequels (although i will defend the last Jedi to my dying day), it might improve them a bit. The current disney+ shows seem to be building background for that, so i feel like they're gradually building toward it in this case so everything feels more conencted. again, much like clonewars (and to some extend rebels too i suppose) did in the end to connect ep 3 and 4
As a 23-year-old who grew up with the prequels, I still find it bizarre that they're now being viewed as good movies. Like, I have plenty of nostalgia for them, but they really are not good movies. There's a lot of cool concepts, and on paper the story sounds good, but... Has anyone HEARD the dialogue in those movies? They are not well-written. Honestly I think the Clone Wars series carries the prequels and that's why they're viewed more positively now.
Same. I have a lot of nostalgia for those films but the original criticisms like those in the Plinkett Reviews are entirely valid. The films are fundamentally flawed.
Quinton I know you probably get imposter syndrome from having gamed the algorithm to make the main channel explode but you genuinely are a great writer and I love hearing you talk about stuff you are interested in.
I’m of the prequel generation but Shaw’s Anakin at the end was ingrained into my brain before Episodes II and III, and so I have a weird mixed nostalgia for 4-6 + 1 specifically. I think the clone wars made a small divide in prequel era nostalgia, because there’s barely any content around episode 1 at all or even a little before 2 in comparison, because I guess it’s too close to Lloyd’s Anakin or something. But also Lanter’s the primary Anakin for the clone wars and that is a completely different take on Anakin. I completely agree with that take about Hayden’s voice. Unmasked Shaw’s delivery is one of the most iconic things from the originals, so it would be odd to me if that wasn’t intentional at all.
Proust once said, “Only one’s own nostalgia is sacred. Another man’s nostalgia is always revolting.” This is the fundamental peril of Star Wars.
PLEASE, you, and EVERYONE, if you haven't already, embrace the One True Only God YHWH Jehovah, Only One Jesus Christ His Only Begotten Son and Lord and Savior of our souls and the Only One Holy Spirit. God is good. God is love. Jesus is Lord. Jesus IS coming. Your soul depends on it!
I have seen God act in my life. He saved my soul, changed my heart, changed my mind, helped people through me, took care of people in my life, people I hurt before I found God. God is the only reason I was able to reconcile with my dad before he died.
God worked through Jesus Christ to save our souls. Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins. Believe in your heart and confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and that God raised Him from the dead and you will be saved. Be baptized in The Holy Spirit, and if He wills, water as well. Repent of your sins, accept God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit into your heart, that Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sins.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son Jesus Christ, that all who believe on Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Jesus Christ is The Way, The Truth and The Life. No one comes to the Father Jehovah God but through Him.
Not long after I got saved I prayed to God for help understanding the Holy Bible, and that same day someone knocked on my door asking me if I wanted to understand the Bible.
The Holy Bible says, "love thy enemy", "turn the other cheek", "If your enemy is hungry, feed him", "if he is thirsty, give him a drink", "pray for those who persecute you", "do not repay evil for evil".
LORD willing, all humans may commit sin of almost every kind (gay, straight), and that's wrong, and all humans sin, as God tells us through the The Holy Bible, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." The Holy Bible also says, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."
I always took Shaw's appearance as "This is Anakin if he had stayed on the light path".
same
This. It doesn’t make sense it would actually be Hayden at the end at his prequel era age. That implies he died then, which undermines Vader’s entire character ark. George Lucas can be, and often has been, objectively creatively wrong (truly a difficult feat), which is something a lot of Star Wars fans today constantly forget it seems.
Same. I personally always view this as that becoming a force ghost would heal all your scars and wounds
They probably wanted to cast someone who looked around the same age as Alec Guinness. If Anakin was supposed to look that old when he turned to the dark side, that would mean Obi Wan was probably younger than him even though he was his master.
@@killiter1997 as Quinton mentioned this was a remaster (the _second_ remaster, at that). We used to joke about Lucas' inability to leave the films alone.
my star wars take is that i care more about thematic consistency than logical lore consistency. those first six films might not have particularly airtight internal logic but there is a very strong thematic line about compassion and the power of love which i value more.
Fr fr. That's why Rise of Skywalker was so ughh to me, it felt like everyone was just mean to each other for no reason. Idc about dumbass lore, I just care about how characters act with each other and themes.
I actually have this exact action figure! He was given to me by my neighbor who was moving, who was a star wars fan in the early 90s. My mom, who has seen original and prequel trilogies had no idea what it was and thought it was some weird bootleg. She didn't recognize him as the original anakin, despite the fact she saw return of the jedi in theatres in 1983. However, my dad, who had only seen the original trilogy when they originally came out and never engaged with star wars ever again after recognized him instantly. I just think that experience is reflective of how the history of star wars has been so shifted by the narrative and prequel nostalgia, that my mom didn't recognize the man she saw in theatres 40+ years ago...
No, I just noticed it. Haden 100% put on a British accent for his Vader moment in Kenobi.
I love that detail! Really shows how much Hayden truly cares about Darth Vader and his legacy
@@PaintSplashProductionsDoes it though?
YES THATS SO GOOD
Ummmm .... I don't know what you think a British accent sounds like, but ....
@jnnx yes. It does. Stop hating everything for 5 seconds. Ffs.
Hayden Christian has talked about watching the Clone Wars show to prepare for playing Anakin in Ahsoka, so I could totally see him studying that Sebastian Shaw scene to get a similar delivery for the Kenobi show.
I feel like the main thing people seem to forget when it comes to prequel nostalgia vs potential sequel nostalgia is that there is a much larger volume of prequel media to be nostalgic for. Whether you liked them or not, between 1999 and 2012, the prequels WERE Star Wars with the most noteworthy pieces of Star Wars media being made at that time either taking place during the prequels or attempting to bridge the gap between the the prequel trilogy and the original trilogy. Meanwhile, the sequel trilogy's time in the spotlight lasted from 2015 to 2019, only to then get outshined by The Mandalorian before Rise of Skywalker even came out in theaters. And when the sequel trilogy had its moment to shine, it still needed to share that time with other pieces of Star Wars media that had little to no connections to the sequel trilogy (Rogue One, Rebels, Solo, Fallen Order, etc) along with many pieces of Star Wars media at the time putting the current trilogy more or less on the same pedestal as the other two trilogies rather than letting it take center stage. Most importantly, I feel like potential sequel trilogy nostalgia is hurt solely on the basis that the sequel trilogy never got its Clone Wars equivalent (and Resistance doesn't count). Specifically, it never got a series that took place in between the films that allowed audiences to spend more time with the characters introduced in those films as well as expand on things that worked about the films but weren't fully explored and recontextualize things that might not have worked in the films (mainly when it comes to episode 9) on top of making the movies feel more interconnected as a result. I also feel the need to acknowledge that the reason Clone Wars is an important part of prequel nostalgia is that it came out AFTER the prequel trilogy concluded so there was no risk of anything in the show getting retconned by a later film and it allowed the brand to stay relevant for almost a decade after the movies ended. But due to the backlash after the release of The Last Jedi, the executives got cold feet and when they had another Star Wars property to latch onto (The Mandalorian) the sequel trilogy immediately became the forgotten middle child who didn't even have the chance to redeem itself. Is that fair to the sequel trilogy and the characters introduced in those films? No, not in the slightest. As flawed and messy as the sequel trilogy is, there's still a lot of potential with that era of the franchise and I personally feel that it's wrong to just pretend that they don't matter. But a decent chunk of the modern Star Wars fandom (or the Dave Filoni fandom if we're being honest) wants those three films erased from existence and for the time being, it looks like they got their wish
these are my exact thoughts too. while i'm looking forward to eventual ST nostalgia (as someone who loved TLJ and didn't mind/mostly liked both TFA and TROS - although i have criticisms of all three of them), i don't think it's gonna happen the same way all this PT nostalgia happened. after TLJ's backlash, Disney wanted to get a broader audience on their side again, and tried to achieve this with both TROS and The Mandalorian. they went all-in on Grogu as a cute, easy means to appeal to the masses, and when TROS released in theaters and was subsequently panned, they used the hype for Grogu and the show as a failsafe, with interconnecting stories following suit. that's what everyone (particularly younger fans) is/are gonna remember from this time period. a sequel renaissance will happen (hell, people are gonna look back on Solo in a similar manner), but in tandem with fans looking back more on the onslaught of other SW media on Disney+, relegating those films to the sidelines, or as you said "forgotten middle children". the one thing that might change this is the release of the New Jedi Order film, because many viewers (regardless of their overall thoughts on the ST) either loved Daisy Ridley or wanted to see her take on the role with a different screenwriter in tow. when that film eventually releases, you'll likely see a number of viewers giving the ST another shot, recontextualizing their content, warts and all. but it doesn't help that two of the four films on the release schedule are continuations of/interconnected with all the shows in the New Republic era, and that many of these shows have more seasons or new additions on the way. only time will tell if Disney decides to revisit the ST era with more content the way they've been doing for the PT and OT, but until that happens (if it happens), the New Jedi Order film will most likely be the catalyst for it.
I agree with you in a lot of ways but I'm also not sure if a Clone Wars type series for the sequels would even work. I really do not think those movies have as much to explore and expand on as the prequels did because so much of their identity is based on rehashing the original trilogy. The choice to blow up the new republic as a way to sort of wipe the slate clean/reset the status quo in Force Awakens was maybe one of the worst things they could have done because it instantly made the world so much smaller and killed a lot of the potential for new stories. There's also the fact that I think Rise of Skywalker is so bad that it retroactively makes the entire trilogy worse and at least personally speaking killed almost any interest I have in revisiting that side of the franchise. Despite all that I do think people will start having more nostalgia for them and I think Disney will try to push those movies more in the future, we're already getting a new Rey movie and I honestly hope its good but im not sure if that'll be enough. I'm not against trying to salvage the sequels I honestly do like a lot of characters and ideas from them but I remain very skeptical that the sequels could have a renaissance to the same extent the prequels did.
I mean, most of the books that expand on Luke, Han and Leia’s journey after VI came out during the prequels. There was also a big Old Republic push at that time as well. Most prequel media made during the prequels were video games, books and comics that took place in between the time gaps in the prequels. Media “bridging the gap” didn’t really happen until after 2005, and there really isn’t that much of it compared to the massive volume of media set before I, between I and II, during the Clone Wars, and after VI. For the sequels there is Galaxy’s Edge, Star Wars: Resistance and a lot of books and comic books set during the sequel era. There’s only half a year between VIII and IX to work with, but there’s a shocking amount that’s actually supposed to take place then. I think you’re forgetting the possibility of media set after IX or during the lead up to VII being created when fans are more accepting of it. Once that Rey movie comes out, the flood gates are open to make media set in that 15 year gap. Filoni’s plan is probably to bridge the gap between his movies/shows and the sequels too.
Yeah, I've said for years that the sequel trilogy's biggest reason it won't have that reevaluation in, like, the diehard fandom of people who buy SW books, video games, and can name individual ship classes, not the casuals who just watch the movies and shows or the rightist culture warriors who are also just as shallow about it, is that. At its core, nobody's a fan of Star Wars without extraneous material propping it up. The Clone Wars tv show made the prequels better because any depiction of the Clone Wars makes the prequels better. The old Star Wars multi-media project that did the Clone Wars before the tv show cannibalized it for parts made the prequels better. Every single person who comments on Star Wars and its obsessive fandom who hates everything that came out forgets that anything besides the movies and tv show exist. Books were the fourth most profitable thing in the Star Wars brand when Disney declared them non-canon. The prequels are awful by themselves, and it makes sense why people hate them if they didn't engage with anything else from that era.
It's harder to do something like that for the sequel era, though. You can't tell when something is set in the sequel or OT era without some signifier like referencing a character because the sequels' design philosophy was so reliant on OT nostalgia. That's why I'm a rare oldhead who liked The Last Jedi. Stuff looked different in that, some stuff, anyway, but I digress. Is that X-Wing in Resistance colors or is it just a Rebel squadron who wanted to paint their X-Wing a certain way? The First Order heavy vehicle is just an AT-AT with frontloading and another gun on top. It's just "Imperial, but more." What if you want to make something in the OT era with a lot of guns on it? Lucas made a good call ordering CIS stuff to be designed initially like rebel stuff and expand from there. Round guys bad, doritos good, prequel era. Round guys good, dorito bad, original *and* sequel era. Anything you set in the OT era, with only some story modification you can set in the sequel era, and vice versa. Disney seeks to milk all eras besides the Old Republic, so a lot of stuff you can choose to set in one, you could set in the other, and without homework, the same thing people say is killing the MCU, casual fans probably can't tell.
Kind of like how Ewan McGregor has stated on many occasions that he puts on a bit of a different voice as Obi-Wan so he can sound a bit more like Alec Guinness, I love the idea that Hayden Christensen was trying to make himself sound a little bit like Sebastian Shaw during that one moment. Honestly didn't even catch it before, but after watching that clip a few times I think he's definitely trying to imitate Shaw there
I was actually thinking about Sebastian Shaw's Anakin a couple days ago. There's a new Lego Star Wars animated short coming to Disney+ later this year for the 25th anniversary of Lego Star Wars with "what if?" versions of characters from Star Wars like Darth Jar Jar as seen in the trailer, and to coincide with the special's release they're putting out a "Dark Millennium Falcon" set with some of these what if characters. One of those characters is Darth Vader in all-white armor from an old Star Wars what if comic called Star Wars: Infinities. A few days ago an image of the minifigure of the white Darth Vader leaked online and it showed that the Anakin Skywalker head underneath the Darth Vader helmet is based on Sebastian Shaw and not Hayden Christensen. I was really surprised to see Lego pay homage to him and I'm curious to see if that detail will be brought up in the animated special.
honestly i feel shaw was always meant to represent old Anakin and not anakin when he died and became vader, this is my first time ever hearing people think otherwise
as a 36 year old who mostly checked out of Star Wars after Episode 9, this entire discussion is fucking wild to me. the idea that anyone would LIKE having Hayden in Episode 6, let alone it being taken for granted by modern fans, feels completely incongruous with my perception of these movies. and I'm not even someone who has it out for the prequels - Episode 1 came out when I was 9 and was Peak to me then. weird, wild stuff.
I'll be 36 next month and this is my exact experience as well. I posted to my IG stories a couple of weeks ago that I was watching the theatrical cut of Star Wars '77 and one of my younger followers responded with, "Whoa, you mean the version where Jabba is just a fat old white dude??" and I was completely gobsmacked that Lucas has done such a thorough job papering over the original cuts that some folks can't even conceive that the Jabba scene wasn't in the film at all at one point.
Sebastian Shaw is a name that I know by heart for his small appearance and always have. Idk why i have space in my brain for remembering him and not other actors who have done more things that ive actually seen
I love the idea that Hayden was imitating Shaw's performance and I totally believe it. You're on point with that one.
I've been out of online star wars circles since TROS came out and honestly just broke my heart after loving the OT, PT, 7, 8 and the cartoons beforehand. But it seemed to me like Hayden was really coming back around to the whole thing and was a fan himself, i almost find it hard to believe that given the opportunity to reclaim his reputation after his original reception in the prequels he *wouldn't* try to imitate Shaw for an older Anakin. I cant believe I didn't pick up on that when I watched Kenobi. Big up the big man Sebastian Shaw, respect.
This genuinely might be the best Star Wars video I've seen in ages, would love to see more discussions like this.
I grew up on the Prequels and I too remember all the discourse and pure hatred levied at those films and the strange reverence that they now have. The lack of self-awareness of some of the fans who just endlessly criticize anything new that comes out is mind boggling
I love this style of you just casually talking to the camera. It makes me feel like I’m listening to a friend infodump about something interesting that I don’t know much about.
Quinton: No one would make a Sebastian Shaw Anakin.
LEGO lightside Vader later this year: 🧓
Link?
@@orsonzedd Zelda.
@@Nikkibuh Now I'm even more confused
@@orsonzedd NINTENDO CHARACTER
@@Hi_Just_Fred I meant a Link to Lego Lightside vader.
I wouldn't notice it myself, but Hayden really said it completely different than how he talks.
For me part of what makes the character of Anakin Skywalker special is that he is constructed by the performance of many people in live action and animated media. Even in the precuels alone he is portrayed by 3 persons (not counting doubles). Even with Hayden Christensen as the definitive pre Vader version of Anakin, Sebastian Shaw will always be the original redeemed Anakin and therefore an important part of who Anakin is as a character.
Cool take
I thought this was gonna be about the X-Men villain with the same name for a second
Also nice job posting a star wars video on the acolyte debut day. I'm basically commenting for the algorithm here 😅
That's today?
@QuintonRe2s oh like you didn't know 😅
Side note, I'd love to see a video on truth vs accuracy, that history class sounded super interesting
That reminds me, do we actually know how Quinton feels about the X-men in general?
@@acemagalor2519 I don't think we do...
I remember being a teenager during the Disney acquisition and how it felt seeing the prequels, the Star Wars movies i grew up with and loved being relentlessly ahit on and having their positive aspects not even acknowledged, let alone discussed.
And that's why im not nearly as brutal in my sequel criticisms as many people my age are (that and being so obsessed with films i don't like is pretty unhealthy). The children of today will grow up to have seen something in the sequels that i didn't and I'm very curious to see what it is.
One interesting take I heard about The Last Jedi specifically was, "Why don't we hear from the defenders of it anymore hm?" and the response was, "Because we enjoyed it and moved on with our lives instead of making hating it our entire identity."
It will be very strange seeing fresh eyes coming to Rise of Skywalker and treating it like Return of The Jedi. "Yeah it's worse than the others but it's still good."
@@hosvet_animationanother good response is “because trying to defend it against you people is exhausting”
@@Cdr2002 "I sleep in a bed that's shaped like a race car while hating The Last Jedi."
"...I sleep in a big bed with my wife and watch lots of different movies."
@@Cdr2002 my ex best friend would always groan and growl and act like he was in pain everytime I said I liked The Last Jedi or praised anything about it. It was so fucking cringe and annoying.
@@CommanderLexaa oh my god I hate people who act like that they’re the worst
I feel like I had my childhood Star Wars phase at an awkward time. I was in late elementary school when the prequels started coming out, and I was in late high school when they wrapped up. I started out young enough to enjoy Episode 1 for how goofy and kid-friendly it was, and I ended old enough to be a jaded teen who thought Episodes 2 and 3 were hot garbage.
The most genuine Star Wars nostalgia I have is for that brief period you mentioned in the late 90’s when the Special Editions and all that expanded media were coming out. So, you’d think I would be more nostalgic for the original trilogy than the prequels. I am to some extent, but not nearly as much as I am about other media from my childhood. I knew at the time that the versions of the movies I was watching weren’t how they were “supposed” to be. So, despite loving those movies, there was always a slight distance there too.
Honestly, the most nostalgic pieces of Star Wars media you could put in front of me would be books like Tales from Jabba’s Palace or The Mandalorian Armor (incidentally, the fact that everyone knows the term “Mandalorian” now is SUCH a trip to me). I haven’t gotten to re-read any of that stuff in a long time, but I remember feeling way more invested in the world of Star Wars by reading various books and comics than I did watching the movies. Probably because expanding the world is what they were designed to do, but also because for a long time, that WAS the current Star Wars - it was “my” Star Wars.
So it feels a bit weird seeing such hardline defenders of both the original trilogy and the prequels in different fan spaces. I did fall more in line with the prequel haters for a while, especially during the Plinkett boom of the late naughts. After living with someone slightly younger than me who adores the prequels, though, I’ve mellowed out a lot and come around more to the way of thinking presented in this video. What Star Wars is - and what Star Wars *nostalgia* is - is going to keep changing over time, and I think it’s important to keep perspective on that. I’m very curious about how kids growing up with the sequel trilogy and expanded media now are going to talk about these things in 10-15 years.
…I’m especially curious how they’re going to defend The Rise of Skywalker, because what the F-
Anyway, good vid! Thanks for sharing, I enjoy your thoughts as always.
I work with a guy who was a baby when the prequels finished, so he is specifically nostalgic for those, having watched them many times growing up and watched all the animated shows. Then he grew into a teen and experienced the sequels, being hype for each one, and literally says TROS is his favorite Star Wars film. I've made myself sit down and watch TROS through his eyes, trying to see what he sees, and I will admit that I sort of see it now. It's not the worst thing ever to me anymore, I don't hate it. So I can easily imagine defenders in the future and eventually fans and people nostalgic for the sequel story.
I think TROS is kind of the perfect modern Star Wars movie for a prequel kid. It’s strengths are the same as what I feel that trilogy does the best: big exciting dynamic action scenes and entertaining character banter that ensure it’ll be a fun ride even if there are plot details that can be picked apart
This is a great anecdote
@@Cdr2002 And I think that's where I finally allowed myself to be okay with it. I enjoy the action set piece that is a cavalry charge on the top of a Star Destroyer, the lightsaber handoff is literally one of the coolest things in the sequel trilogy, and some of the emotional beats, such as the scene with Han Solo and in the final confrontation with Palpatine are pretty affecting. The trick is allowing yourself to be affected by them. It's not a terrible movie, but I really do just wish Disney would put their big boy pants back on and make some more films in that continuity.
@@muticere Absolutely. I have my hopes for that upcoming Rey-focused new Jedi order movie. And yeah, while I don’t love a lot of Rise of Skywalker as the conclusion to the story set up by the other two movies, it has lots of really good moments and lots of aspects that are well-executed even if I disagree with them as a writing choice for a thing to do. It’s a really fun watch if you like you said, one lets themselves relax a little
As someone who grew up with the Prequels (simultaneously with the OT), and was firmly on the hype train for the Sequels and still loves The Last Jedi, I really just cannot see any merit at all in TROS beyond half-decent spectacle, even when I try. It is one of the most cynical films I've ever seen.
That history/film class sounds AWESOMMMEEEE
I can hear it. I remember when I first watched that scene in Kenobi, I didn't think it was Hayden. We knew it was, since he was in the series earlier and all the marking hyped it up, but he put on SUCH a different voice in that scene it felt like a totally different person. I didn't think we was mimicking Shaw per say, but he did sound older, deeper, with some kind. of accent and cadence that wasn't his own, much like the performance that Shaw gave. It wouldn't surprise me if Hayden did do it as a reference on purpose since he REALLY cares about Anakin and Star Wars.
Now to add a bit. of a nerdy nitpick: To me the argument about Obiwan wearing a desert disguise in EP4 has always run real hollow to me since, sure at a glance its like he's trying to look like a tusken raider. or something, but then he's still dressed like that in EP5 and EP6 as a force ghost. And when Luke is a jedi in EP6 he has black robes on. Even yoda has them in EP5 and EP6 too.
I've been saying the same thing about the next generation of Star Wars nostalgia for a few years now but I've always been afraid to say it online. The "worst" version of a franchise will always be the first, best, and most pivotal version to someone out there.
Old man Star Wars fan here, and I could not agree more with you Quinton! I still preach the hot take of "yoda and palpatine should be above lightsabers!"
Also I will NEVER forgive them for changing Boba Fett's original voice actor in Empire. Quinton I think a very similar discussion to be had concerning Boba and his latest actor Temuera Morrison. And Ashley and Ahsoka.
The recent SW book shadow of the sith had it where Anakin saved old luke as a force ghost and the book describes that Anakin’s appearance kept shifting between young Hayden and old Sebastian Shaw and I think not only is it cool fan service it’s just incredibly interesting and a melding of both eras and what I thought would happen in live action if it were to happen but now it’s all Hayden rn as Ahsoka depicts it
I am the youngest of 5. My oldest brother being 10 years older than me. As a result I grew up not watching the prequels but watching my brothers vhs copies of the original trilogy which meant I had the non special editions. I remember going to a friends house one day to hang out and his dad had the remasters on the tv, specifically the ending of return of the Jedi. Let me tell you I was soooo confused why Darth Vader was suddenly young again as a ghost and none of my friends could even begin to understand what I was talking about. His dad explained that they changed the movies and I got really upset thinking that my copy was also changed and I would never be able to watch the originals again
Honestly I never really noticed Hayden putting on a bit of an accent for Kenobi but I like that, it would make sense in canon since so many people in the empire have a British accent and he’s been around them for about 10 years during Kenobi and about 24-25 by return of the Jedi so I could see the accent imprinting on the way he speaks considering he rarely gets to talk without the helmet
ok but fr though i thought i was the only one upset that they removed him from episode 6 and this restored my sanity lmao
Not just you. The line hit me weird too, when I heard it in Kenobi, but I couldn't put my finger on it. You nailed it!
14:09 that’s crazy because I was rewatching that movie earlier this week and thought “damn how does that guy looks just like Hayden Christiansen” I thought I was losing it
Jason Wingreen’s performance as the voice of Boba Fett would be in a similar situation.
honestly that bothers me more than hayden-anakin in return of the jedi. at least sebastian shaw gets to play anakin for one scene of that movie. jason wingreen’s five entire lines of boba fett dialogue are just… gone.
@@sunrise.system I'd personally say the same thing about Shaw and Wingreen's work being replaced that I do about the majority of the special edition changes - I think it's fine to make these changes and bring them in line with the prequels, IF the original versions of those performances were still widely available to see
That wouldn't have bothered me quite so much if the lines they had Temuera record to replace them didn't sound so phoned in. He's definitely done a lot better performances as Boba in recent years but those Special Edition lines.....
Another brand of Star Wars guy I just haven't seen in forever is the person who loves New Hope and Empire, but despises The Return of the Jedi. I'm 28 but in my teens I had a comic that was pretty much just a collection of Boba Fett short stories and in that comic was an ad for a comic run of Return that touted "Now with 100 percent less Ewoks" as a major selling point. I feel like the Expanded Universe at the time following Return was appealing directly to that flavor of nostalgia before people who saw Return as a kid grew up and started contributing. After the last of the prequels came out I remember seeing someone state something along the lines of "Star Wars is a six film series in which only two films are good" which I feel is a sentiment I don't see echoed online too often these days.
Love the "short" form content in this channel, love how much we are getting.
PS dont overwork yourself!!
In 1993 Topps made a card depicting a younger Anakin with a baby Luke and Luke and Leia’s then unnamed mother. Lucas ordered it pulled from the set because he was making the prequels.
It certainly is an interesting phenomena. I talk with my dad about star wars and I'm not like a prequel lover or anything but it's kind of fascinating how his childhood in the 80s shaped what star was is in a completely different way from what star wars is to me who watched it in the 2000s, and it'll probably be different again in another 20 years. I think one aspect that shows that off is boba fett. My dad grew up with an unironic love of boba fett, he thinks he's so cool. I grew up with the discourse having changed since then, "oh he's kind of a derp, he jetpacks himself into the sarlac pit"
I went to a vintage collectibles store last week with my partner and saw that Shaw figure for the very first time. The box was low detail and just had his bald egg head on it, and when I opened the front cover to see what it was I was absolutely astounded. I didn't buy it, but it is by far one of the most unique and interesting pieces of SW merchandise I've ever seen.
Quinton you’re not alone. I also heard the Sebastian Shaw impression in that line. I feel like most don’t notice it because they don’t really think about Sebastian Shaw in that scene, it’s also pretty subtle, at least to me
In my opinion. The best way to enjoy anything is to stay out of the fandom.
Had to relearn this the hard way a couple years ago after avoiding fandom spaces for easily a decade. Just an absolutely miserable experience between 2 fandoms that still triggers me years later.
Smart idea. Especially the Star Wars fandom.
I had this thought about nostalgia around the same time The Last Jedi came out. I don't know or remember if it was a coincidence or it was Prequel fans taking the opportunity to say Prequels were better, but I remember seeing people nostalgic for the prequels.
It was interesting. And it made me realize there was a cycle of nostalgia for Star Wars. And since Last Jedi hate was strong around this period, I came to the same conclusion that our little siblings or kids will go through the same thing. They won't see the Sequels as blemish in Star Wars but as a part of Star Wars, warts and all.
The Prequels are messy, the sequels are messy, but nostalgia can bend cynicism but also create it like what happened to Original trilogy fans and, eventually, prequel fans.
At the end of the day, so long as no one is getting hurt, like what you like. Your movies are not going away(unless they are written off or Special Editioned... keep back ups too).
Not a star war person remotely but this was a fascinating video. You can see this pattern play out in Pokemon discussion as well, just with a shorter timeframe. Debating anything Pokemon kind of runs into the Thing that pretty much every single discussion about which game or generation is best is decided solely by nostalgia (except for the most recent games, I think, discussions around performance and graphics feel like a new element to the conversation loop?)
Fascinating to hear about original trilogy nostalgia being replaced by prequel nostalgia, and yeah, in a few years we're going to have people who grew up with the sequels old enough to defend them on the internet and be picked for that nostalgia. Odd how that works but that's what happens.
"10 years ago this was one of the most contentious debates about Star Wars" Heck, even 20 years ago when the DVD with the change released.
I think that your point is accurate about how Sequel Trilogy kids will grow up to define the next era of the brand, but i will add on the wrinkle which is that by this time in the previous trilogy cycle, Clone Wars had started, which, imho, did a lot to build the mythos of that world with the target audience of Star Wars (kids who grew up with the prequels). So much of the current "Star Wars Fandom Vogue" and reassessment of the Prequel trilogy borrows a lot from how much work the Clone Wars did to expand on the concepts from those movies, and, at least right now, the Sequels don't have that kind of project.
The current live action shows are set between the OT and ST eras, but do lean pretty heavily on concepts/iconography from the Original Trilogy. As one of the 12 people who really likes all of the sequels, I do kinda hope that we get passionate creatives who can make something like the Clone Wars for this new Sequel Era, flesh out more of that side of the timeline, and allow a lot of the anger and vitriol towards "New Star Wars bad. My Star Wars Better" that used to be the Prequels territory to settle down
Quinton, I think I'm on the same page as you here. I never noticed or thought that Christensen was trying to sound like Shaw in his performance in the Kenobi show, but now that you pointed it out, I hear it, and I love it. That's how you bridge the gap between the prequel and the originals, not by retconning the originals but by bringing the two worlds together. (I also look forward to the day when the Sequel era is looked back on nostalgiclu gets fleshed out with more spin-offs, as I think it will add a lot to the lore. Overall I just like star wars)
The robes is such a good point wtf
After watching a lot of Star Wars videos today, this was a great capstone. I've heard the idea of the Star Wars fandom's generational cycle discussed somewhat frequently for the last 7 years, but this is best summation of the concept.
If we go by the division of the three trilogies, then the recurrence of this cycle is still relatively new. But this phenomena has already been observed in other franchises. For example, despite being a younger series, Pokemon has already had 9 generations (defined by new batches of Pokemon designs around every 3-4 years). The nostalgia cycle is very well understood by Pokemon fans, so it is kinda funny seeing Star Wars fans that are blind to the coming Sequel renaissance.
Lmao I literally never thought of the Obi Wan robes thing
I feel like the two ghosts say two different things
- Sebastian Shaw implies little parts of Anakin resided in Vader the whole time, finally emerging when it came time to kill the Emperor.
- Hayden Christensen implies that Anakin died in Revenge of the Sith.
I noticed that too when he briefly sounded like Sebastian Shaw.
I know this is kind of a deep cut, but The Clone Wars episode "Deception" Obi-Wan was disguised as a bounty hunter called Rako Hardeen, and while speaking to the Jedi Council about his progress he used the code name "Ben," meaning that not only did he just use his real last name, but he also reused an alias of his for his first name. He barely changed his name. Why are we expecting him to have changed his clothing style?
This video made me realize how OLD I am in terms of the Star Wars fandom.
Would Sebastian Shaw care? I’m legitimately curious on what his position would be. Because given his work experience I don’t know if he would.
I grew up with the Prequels and all that, and I can accept Anakin sounding British because he’s been surrounded by British people for 20ish years and eventually you just accept that.
Fan theory: The dark side of the force turns you British
Obi-Wan: 😈😈😈
funnily enough the very figure you're holding proves your professor wrong when it comes to the robes
I think a problem with nostalgia for the sequel trilogy is that there's no media for that era outside the movies. The prequels had games, comics and more importantly tv shows. There have been no tv shows or games with Rey, Finn, or Poe after the movies and barely any comics or books. A lot of prequel fans say they're prequel fans but ask them why they love the prequels and 90% of the time they'll mention the clone wars. Sequel fans don't have a clone wars and that's a shame. A shame with how quickly Disney abandoned the characters and story and tried to bury it. They denied these characters a second chance for them to be loved. The sequel trilogy ended in a dumpster fire but they deserved a second chance. They had potential and something that could be salvaged, but they didn't. I think people will feel nostalgia for the mandalorian series, but it's only roughly connected to the sequel trikogy. There's a Rey series coming soon, but it should've came sooner. It's been half a decade since the rise of Skywalker.
I mean, Rey’s at Disney parks, so that’s probably something
I looked up a list of characters, and apparently Boba Fett appears too. I imagine they resurrected him just so he could be part of their canon-compliant amusement park.
Do the LEGO specials and Lego Skywalker Saga game count?
But yeah. I could actually see a good place for a Clone Wars-esk midquel show set in the gap between Episode 8 and 9 to flesh out the sequel trilogy characters.
Seeing a new upload from Quinton on Star Wars while building the LEGO UCS Star Destroyer was like experiencing Christmas morning again while unboxing the stuff I already got for Christmas that morning
I went out of my way to kind a Kenner Sebastian Shaw action figure, because I loved his performance, and also thought it was upsetting he was erased in the force ghost scene. He did such a terrific job.
I was a 90s kid and while I didn't care much about SW, my best friend and her dad were so I remember the prequel era really well yeah, fans hated it so much. It blows my mind that you now get people who actually defend the films as the norm. You're spot on with the nostalgia cycle, I'm also a Pokemon fan since the 90s so I've seen it there. Gen 5 was never disliked, more like forgotten, but then the last few years you'd think it's the definitive Pokemon experience (it's not, you were just 12 when it came out!) Now the nostalgia has been moving on to gen 6, which has been absolutely hated prior.
As a Star Wars fan, I avoid Star Wars fandom like the plague outside of some specific, pre-vetted sources. The number one factor is the bigotry, but a secondary thing that I find so strange with Star Wars Discourse(tm) is the insistence on treating all Star Wars media like glimpses into an internally consistent universe rather than different works that seek some consistency in setting but also pick, choose and alter in service of telling the story they want to tell. Disney seems to try to cater to that first point of view, maybe because the vocal parts of the fandom clamor for it and they want their money, but I can't take too much "X thing in Y movie doesn't make sense because Z" when Star Wars making sense has historically been secondary to trying to make a compelling story.
I have actually seen fans unironically asking Disney to replace A New Hope's Obi wan vs Vader duel with SC 38 Reimagined on the comment section of that video. This is the absolute state of the star wars fandom
I initially thought Hayden’s broken speech pattern in kenobi was a bit odd, but after seeing your Sebastian Shaw connection the acting choice makes a lot more sense.
The idea of wanting Sebastian Shaw's performance as unmasked Vader replaced to make it fit the Anakin performance in the prequels is so insane to me because like... if you can imagine that alternative version of the scene, then surely you don't actually need an edited version of the movie that includes it. The perceived continuity error can already be resolved in your mind's eye, you can fill in the gap the same way that you can figure out what's happened when a character changes clothes between shots.
It really speaks to me of a misunderstanding of what movies are. Like, they aren't a historical record of a fictional world. They're performances of stories. If you watched productions of different entries in the Henriad performed by different companies, you wouldn't get mad that the guys playing Falstaff gave different performances.
I grew up with the prequels being marketed everywhere and loving Clone Wars but I had never watched the original ones. I remember my mom's sister bought the VHS trilogy one day and all my cousins and aunts and uncles sat down to watch Star Wars for the entire day and when Darth Vader takes off his helmet I remember the shock that went through my small little 8 year old body. Granted I watched it in LatAm Spanish, but Sebastian did such a god tier job at leaving such a big impression on me and my cousins. Hayden and Sebastian NEED to exist together as the face of Anakin. It's just necessary. Just like how we don't erase old man Obi Wan. Cus it's where the characters ended up. 🫡
I may be outing myself as an idiot, but because I only ever watched the original trilogy as a child, I always thought that third ghost was Uncle Owen. I didn't know it was supposed to be Anakin probably until after the change was made.
I’ve seen the first six movies a ton of times and have nostalgia for all of them… but I’ve literally never noticed that Anakin’s accent in Episode VI is British lol. And I couldn’t imagine caring if I had. I love Shaw’s performance in Jedi and I’ll be really sad if it ever gets officially wiped.
I still remember my college friend group and I marathoning RedLetterMedia video essays tearing apart the prequels. He even threw a copy into the toilet.
My headcanon is that after 20 something years of being around british people, he got the accent like how you can gain a accent if you go to a different country for Long enough
One of the best essays I've seen on Star Wars and it wasn't even scripted
I just realized that Shaw is wearing the same robes as Obi-Wan when he comes back as a ghost, which implies that that really is the standard Jedi uniform. Imagine if, when he appeared, he was wearing a shiny metallic cape with stars embroidered on to it, a high collar up to his ears, thigh-high shaggy boots, a rubber unitard, and a big utility belt with a buckle that says "May the force be with you" on it.
Well, remember that Anakin grew up on Tatooine, the robes Ben Kenobi wears are almost identical to the desert robes worn by Anakin's brother, Owen. Think about it this way, when Anakin came back as a force ghost clad in the desert robes he would've worn in his younger days, before being trained by Obi Wan
Are there people that really think the sequels will always be hated? As someone who grew up with the crappy prequels and has a sense of nostalgia for that era, it only makes sense that the same thing will happen once the next batch of Star Wars fans grow up. Anyone that sees your hot take as a hot take really isn’t paying attention.
There's already some people who are willing to see the good parts of the sequels. I was born in the early 90s, so I had seen the originals several times before the prequels came out, and even I like some parts of the sequels. I like TR-8R, I like the throne room fight, I like Luke's "fight" with Kylo at the end of TLJ, I like the Holdo Maneuver, and I liked most of Kylo's scenes through the whole trilogy. There's good things in those movies, if you're willing to admit it. I have massive nostalgia for the prequels, _and_ for the originals, but even I am willing to admit that the sequels aren't entirely bad.
The problem with the sequels is that they had no overarching plan, and Abrams was _too much_ of a fan of the originals, so the sequels ended up being slapdash and too reliant on nostalgia. Like, literally "clap when you see it" level stuff. Even someone like me is a little taken out of the moment when it's that bad.
Yes, life is cyclical like that
The stance I see is that the sequels are too cynical and vapid in their creation to be remembered fondly, unlike the pure yet flawed prequels. I've always felt that was narrow minded. They're just way too popular to miss out on some sort of nostalgic resurgence.
I will say, though, I would not be surprised if that resurgence takes a bit longer than it did for the prequels, only because it feels like we're still submerged in that era to some extent. I think nostalgia tends to favor things that are distant and abandoned to some degree.
@@PaintraSeaPeaIDK man, I agree it's very corporate and bland, but you have to remember people still eat up the MCU, I don't think it's unlikely that this vapid shit will have people saying it's great when they're older.
That said, something a lot of people talk about rn is: will this generation have nostalgia in the way we all do as so much media now is designed around recreating other people's nostalgia. I find, anecdotally, a lot of young people now define themselves by a sense of No-stalgia (being nostalgic for stuff before your time) saying they were born in the wrong generation as all the media they grew up on portrayed the idealised versions of the past
I'm pretty sure the intention wasn't Sebastian Shaw was what Anakin looked like when "he died" and became Darth Vader. It's just his normal body but healed of all his scars, and hair returned. Or, as others have put it, "what he would look like if he never turned to the dark side". He's the same age unmasked, so I don't think they were saying he was only Vader for a couple years.
I'd always figured that Anakin's Force Ghost was old because it represented who Anakin was when he died, so it represented him in his last moments.
As for why Anakin looked so old? They could've just established in the prequels that prolonged use of the Dark Side increases your aging or something.
Honestly, and this is a rare take but I just happen to be right... The "Clone Wars" should have been like 20 years of events. There should have been a 20-year gap between Episodes 2 and 3, or maybe Episode 1 should have been the start to the wars, etc. "Clone Wars" implies multiple conflicts (Clone War I, Clone War II) and a war of 2-3 years just doesn't have as much weight.
Seeing Hayden Christensen go from being so hated for his portrayal of Anakim that he had to leave the industry to being constantly praised for the same portrayal has been one of the most bizarre changes I've ever seen. It always kind of confused me. This makes perfect sense.
I also remember hearing Hayden do a Sebastian Shaw impression
My friend just showed me something interesting. If you turn off the color of your TV and play the Prequel Trilogy in Japanese suddenly all the awkward and insane decisions George made make sense. They're still bad, but they make sense. the stilted dialogue, harsh lighting, the sheer melodrama. They all feel like they come straight from a samurai movie.
15:16 Having the Force ghost of Anakin be Sebastian Shaw makes more sense because it reinforces the point that Luke was successful in turning Anakin back to his healthy mental self before his death. “There’s still good in you.” Sebastian also actually reacts to his friend, Obi-Wan, in such a way as to show there really was friendship between them. I enjoy seeing him look directly at Luke with pride.
I thought I was losing my mind because I had the exact same experience you did regarding Sebastian Shaw just a few days ago. I was watching the change log to new fanedits of the original trilogy called the Final Cut. The goal of the edits was to basically insert all the uncontroversial special edition changes in (e.g. the enhanced lightsaber effects, the new Cloud City backdrops, "Close the blast doors!")
But among those additions was Hayden at the end of RotJ with a filter or deepfake or something to make him look like he did in Ahsoka, and all the comments about it were all in favor. I was extremely fascinated because up until then I thought everybody despised that change
Also, I haven't seen Obi-Wan Kenobi yet, but that absolutely is a Sebastian Shaw impression
Here before they do another cut of TPM that completely replaces Jake Lloyd with an uncanny valley model of Hayden Christensen based on his appearance in Family Passions, using an AI voice cloner of his kid voice to redo young Anakin's lines.
If Star Wars ever declined, it was when characters became secondary to T H E L O R E
Also shoutout to that dude who said I was an NPC for even hinting at some enjoyment of the sequels.
so basically 1979
The world-famous moment when That Dude insulted This Dude.
That's something that I really feel is pervasive throughout the Disney+ stuff, post-Mando Season 1 (and aside from Andor of course). Everything feels like it's just about The Lore.
My favorite byproduct of this is the cancelled Topps card from 1993 which shows early, nameless imaginings of Anakin and Padme (before they were called that), where Anakin looks like an older Mark Hamill. Like, similar to how Hamill actually ended up looking in Last Jedi.
My reaction when I heard his voice in kenobi was he was trying to mimic James Earl Jones' speech pattern for the voice switching. I think he did the same thing near the end of revenge of the sith too.
I say keep the inconsistencies. The practical effects, Sebastian Shaw, everything. It's flavor and texture.
Thank goodness Alec Guinness was respected enough that his scenes were left intact.
As a Star Wars fan who watched all three prequels on release night and participated in the discourse: that wasn’t why people were mainly upset. A lot of it was the dialogue and lack of character development. Like a huge portion.
Quinton I'm with you, Sebastian Shaw was done dirty, he really deserves more love today, I 100% disagree with people liking Hayden being added to Return of the Jedi, and I grew up with the prequels.
Holy hell, I had that figure as a kid, no idea where it is now, but yeah. Also now that you point it out, Hayden is 100% paying homage to Shaw in that scene. Excellent catch!
Hell yeah! New Quinton!!
Been so interested in this vid since you teased this. Classic quinton doing random interesting shit.
This is such a nice little video. Had no idea there was a Sebastian Shaw Anakin figure at any point in history (I was born months after the Special Editions). This is also just a unique SW video on this site in general. Would love more of these in the future.
About that Hayden clip in Kenobi, I never registered that he was doing Shaw's voice, just thought "Oh that's his running out of breath voice." But now I can't unhear it.
I just turned 28 and I've been into star wars my whole life, I honestly tend to like all things star wars, but I have to say the way that people in the star wars fandom talk about new pieces of star wars media has always pissed me off, like every time we get to a new generation of star wars you always get people who watched an older generation as kids and they can't fucking stand how the new kids films being released in this series of kids films are aimed at a new generation of kids, how they handle things differently, or aren't aimed at people in there thirties, and it honestly just makes it harder to go back and enjoy the older stuff, because I end up associating it with all the shitty butthurt shit that the most vocal parts of the fandom have to say
You are doing really well with your content these days. Props for your effort.
Yeah I’m not offended by Hayden being in the original trilogies now in the same active anger way I was as a kid and my dad made a point to show me the OG stuff growing up. But it is still a haunting offense where, like… this dude was in the movie, in a way he can be visibly recognized as the actor he is, and instead he got wiped out and literally unless you know the trivia you’d have no idea it existed. It’s just a general frustration and unease about George Lucas being George Lucas, basically
I agree with almost everything except saying that the director of Return of the Jedi knew what he was doing, when Lucas had to step in for most of it 💀💀
My theory for the explanation for the Jedi robes is that the Jedi dress code was basically popularized at a time where they lived mostly on a dessert planet. My guess is that planet was Jeddah.
a sequel nostaglia based era coming up isn't just a theory, that's just the pattern at this point. and to be honest, i am excited for it. because the prequels got retroactivly more fun with things like clone wars so if we can fill in the world around the messy hell that is the sequels (although i will defend the last Jedi to my dying day), it might improve them a bit. The current disney+ shows seem to be building background for that, so i feel like they're gradually building toward it in this case so everything feels more conencted. again, much like clonewars (and to some extend rebels too i suppose) did in the end to connect ep 3 and 4
I know you explained why this isn't on the main channel but i can't help feel this should reach a wider audience, its a great video, Quinton
This was such a great video and makes me really miss the old quinton vids, hope to see more like this on this channel!
As a 23-year-old who grew up with the prequels, I still find it bizarre that they're now being viewed as good movies. Like, I have plenty of nostalgia for them, but they really are not good movies. There's a lot of cool concepts, and on paper the story sounds good, but... Has anyone HEARD the dialogue in those movies? They are not well-written. Honestly I think the Clone Wars series carries the prequels and that's why they're viewed more positively now.
Same. I have a lot of nostalgia for those films but the original criticisms like those in the Plinkett Reviews are entirely valid. The films are fundamentally flawed.
dialogue in star wars has always bem corny
@@anjinh0087 Corny, yes. But some lines are very wooden/unnatural in the prequels. For example, almost every line Anakin and Padme say to each other.
Prequel memes got popular and went from being ironic to justifying people's love for it
Yeah, there's a reason why there are so many fan made rewrites of the prequels, super cool ideas but George just can't execute them
Quinton I know you probably get imposter syndrome from having gamed the algorithm to make the main channel explode but you genuinely are a great writer and I love hearing you talk about stuff you are interested in.
I’m of the prequel generation but Shaw’s Anakin at the end was ingrained into my brain before Episodes II and III, and so I have a weird mixed nostalgia for 4-6 + 1 specifically. I think the clone wars made a small divide in prequel era nostalgia, because there’s barely any content around episode 1 at all or even a little before 2 in comparison, because I guess it’s too close to Lloyd’s Anakin or something. But also Lanter’s the primary Anakin for the clone wars and that is a completely different take on Anakin.
I completely agree with that take about Hayden’s voice. Unmasked Shaw’s delivery is one of the most iconic things from the originals, so it would be odd to me if that wasn’t intentional at all.