@@GamingNostalgiaRemastered he might have a point, even though it probably is not the one he wants to make. To me it sounds more and more like cig is planning to call it a day at some point in the next year's and release 1.0 no matter how finished it is at that point. The writing is on the wall. They cut features left and right, manage expectations with what is going to be in 1.0 and that is less and less by the month.
As a solo non PVP gamer (and I suspect there are a lot more of us in the player base than most people think) I don't normally comment/give feedback on games (like most solo players from my experience). SC has the potential to be my main game with one main issue that stopped me playing it during alpha (even though I really enjoyed most of the game). I'd love to see if other solo players feel the same way (no need to reply as I know we don't normally like to talk to others, just like the post if you are in this group) or just add a comment on what would stop you playing (not just being annoyed at) SC when it release 1.0 For me the quickest thing to stop me playing a game is when a ganker can retard my progress (ie blowing up my ship meaning I have to re-kit out the modules costing lots of money etc). Please give me a PVP flag (or some other thing) that stops me being attacked by other players. This could reduce rewards (ie 5% less for mining when it is on etc) or stop certain areas/missions being available, I would happily be limited to non PVP activities/areas. If there is an area where NPC's do this then that is fine (it was my mistake for going there and I can avoid that in future or take a basic ship with no modules and no gear etc) I've not played in over a year, last time, just after the reset, I had just got enough cash to outfit a mining ship and got ganked on my first run. I couldn't afford to replace the modules so went back to basic mining and got ganked again by a different player in a different system. Logged off and played some other games (that don't allow other players actions to degrade my own progress) and not played since (although I might jump in again before 1.0 but the progress resets put me off playing seriously so might wait till, 1.0 comes out , if I'm still alive by then of course :P) If I still get ganked in 1.0 I will most likely end up playing something else (Like a lot of people I have talked to in games who also don't normally bother complaining on forums and just go play something else). The 'Active posting' gamers will say go play something else if you don't like it (and I will happily do so), but they don't seem to realise that a lot of money (not as much as the big backers) and the feeling of an 'alive' player base comes from the 'working 9-5' solo players (look at them as IRL NPC's I guess). Without them it could turn out like another Elite where you get less and less people in the game (although a lot of this is down to the bad implementation of the PVP flag system). This means an emptier game feeling and less money for the devs to produce the content. It also takes longer for the passive gamer to achieve stuff in game, this actually means that anything gained has a higher value to them and makes them more likely to keep playing, subsequently loss of this stuff through a ganker also has a bigger effect on the enjoyment of the game. These solo's will most likely end up finding people they enjoy playing with and maybe becoming less of a solo player. I believe this is one reason why WOW managed to get and maintain their number of players in the early years (not so much today). Solo players came, kept playing because they were catered for and eventually made friends and joined guilds and became group players/raiders. Hardly anyone starts a new game without being a solo player (unless you already have a guild in another game moving to the new one). So keeping the solo players happy should be a top priority if you want a game to continue growing as these people are the players that will eventually join the guilds and become invested in the game. You just need them to stay in the game long enough to meet other players they enjoy playing with (even if that is not what they intended to do, ie they intended to just play solo) and then they will experience the real reasons why MMO's became so popular with dedicated players, they are dedicated to their friends in the guild as much as the game itself.
To me SC is looking more and more like Foxhole, which is not a good thing. That game has the whole production area for both factions plagued by guilds, elitism and toxicity. Everywhere you go is signs telling people to stay away, "private property", "don't steal our stuff". I once tried to build something to help finishing a production chain, and next day I found a sign saying "dismantle this as it's our territory". And when you manage to somehow craft something on your own to send to the frontlines, after spending literal hours crafting it? It's all gone in seconds thanks to "partisans" (No. They're griefers. A*****es who find funny to ruin people's efforts. Period.) camping in map borders, to blow up your vehicle. Star citizen is looking more and more like that. And despite being a backer, I'm really despising the direction it is taking. This game will be a grief-fest.
Yeah I'm a solo player myself and I see that solo play is getting slowly pushed away from the game. Hell, they just said yesterday that NPC crews is going to be a post 1.0 launch. So yeah, by the time 1.0 comes out and I'm thinking in 2030s, they will change their stance on NPC crew and probably get rid of it all together.
@@madmaveric sorry it’s the wrong game for you. CIG and Chris personally have said more than once that this is a game where everyone will have to PVP. With 100 person servers and small pre-release player base it was totally possible for people to avoid pvp. But that is not their plan. Much like eve, pvp is unavoidable - once game is closer to vision. Solo or private group mode in Elite is for players like you but no such thing in SC. BTW the Elite player base has grow a lot in the last year so you may not have been on since odyssey if you think it’s shrinking.
one of my favorite thing when I want to enjoy a cool flight model is to boot elite dangerous in Solo/Mobius session, put a podcast on (galaxy radio I call it, eh) and enjoy the ship and flying around 🙂
@@AtlasRandGaming So what is the point of lawless or high security systems? non pvp pilots will stay in high sec sectors where pvp should be extremely risky this always boils down to pvp players want a target rich environment and pve players want to be left alone this circle cannot be squared pvp players will be forced into high security systems as that is where the majority of players will be
you still have like 40 more years (counting on averages), more if you're fit and live a sane life out of drugs, smoke and excess of alcohol, surely you will be able to play 1.0.
No they forecasted, they predicted, but as CIG often say, ''they do not promise''. CIG have said just 3 months ago, its on the roadmap, yet a ways off yet, no one wants NPC Crew, no one wants a Starfield.
It's funny. 12 years later and many players do not even remember what was promised. Their current vision of 1.0 is a fraction of what they wanted to create. Even if you ignore the 100 systems they promised.
The problem is Star Citizen has always been that it’s a game that exists predominately in the imagination of backers and developers alike. Some of it was (and will) likely never be possible. Some of it would never realistically work in a MMO. It had to evolve, and in doing so it would naturally leave some backers expectations wanting. But at the end of the day, they needed to fix the goalposts for 1.0. It’s also clear to me that everything they showed will require modification along the way, so there’s no reason to feel like the sky is falling. We should also remember that CIG hasn’t delivered on time or as advertised… ever… so no reason to think this will be exactely like they showed anyway! 😅
@@saintjames1995 It has always had survival in the PU, which is why it has food and drink, and why so many exploration ships have showers and toilets and why habs have shower gel on display (but not for sale yet). Plus, base building only makes sense for people who do not have exploration ships.
@@saintjames1995 what’s wrong with either of those things? I always assumed crafting and base building were natural extensions of resource gathering gameplay loops (even if not explicitly stated as goal until last year). And the survival aspects of SC are greatly exaggerated and could be assumed to be present in a universe where you are a person and not a ship.
I remember several years ago when I said there would never be 100 systems at launch when it's taken them years to make just two some deranged fanboy told me I had no idea what I was talking about, because it would just be so fast to build them now the tools had been made. Uh huh.
Back when the 100 star systems were talked about being added the game was in its original idea being a modernized freelancer. When you couldn't land anywhere just the main landing zone and it was done through a cutscene. I think they even talk about this in the 1.0 segment of this years citcon. There is no realistic way of them getting that many systems out for 1.0 or maybe at all
The cult will come up with anything to defend it, even in the face of reality. Once again, all they've done is move the goalposts and made more empty promises and plans.
@@uhavekrabs A lot of us old fuddy-duddies who backed it in those days just wanted that, and in many ways still just want that. It's no longer remotely the game I backed, and realistically never will be.
@@JohnMichaelson I think many games have proven that 100 systems for the sake of 100 systems is kinda a dumb metric to chase. NMS and ED have essentially infinite systems and other than for some segment of the player base it doesn’t actually enrich gameplay. Those games are also designed with “inch deep, mile wide” in mind. SC kicked that idea with seamless transitions and fully explorable planets and moons, anyone who thought otherwise was just foolish. A moon in Star citizen today is more area for gameplay than entire systems as envisioned in the kickstarter. CIG’s explanation of why they are aiming for 5 systems at launch vs 100 at this years citizen con is perfectly logical as well.
I bought a new computer in 2016 cause I wanted to play Star Citizen. I've been waiting 8 years, shorter than some people but it was interesting to see so many games come out during that time while they still talking about random things like mattress and fluid physics. They are building a house without putting in the foundation.
Considering many of the systems are being ported over from Squadron 42 to Star Citizen... FINALLY... they've built the house but now they have to move everything in (porting mechanics from SQ42 to SC) before we all die of old age
I. Do. Not. Want. EvE. I originally backed Star Citizen back in 2012 because it WASN'T EvE. It was a new take on the multiplayer of Chris Roberts' previous game Freelancer. The idea of having an open space world you can have adventures in with your friends was one that was, and still is, fresh. Far too many space games out there tend to gravitate towards turning into these sprawling empire sims (looking at you, X4) and drift away from that smaller idea. I just want to be Han Solo and take MY ship on space adventures. Star Citizen promised to be that. But as time goes on, it's apparent that, "Screw it, just let guilds run everything," is much easier to do for the gameplay backend than a predominantly NPC-driven world that again as a Kickstarter reminder, had promised modding and private servers. I fear Star Citizen is just going to be EvE with mega guilds running everything. And that the gameplay, and developer focus, will be on catering to that.
Took the words right out of my mouth. I don't want to see another game with mega clans that essentially block you from everything fun you want to do unless you do it for them as a mindless drone taking on the most menial and repetitive aspects the higher ranks don't want. We have games like that, such as EvE or any public ARK servers.
Just because an org can have a space station doesnt mean you can bop around in a cutter solo, does it. Grow up and stop catastrophising over none issues.
but look closely tho, the 3 new star systems that launch with 1.0 has less poi combined than Staton along, I guess its doable, just with minimum effort
@@jasonz2736 With minimum effort, yes. But you have to account for when Chris Roberts decides to create a new font for the in-game personalized mugs and stuff like that. 😁
I didn't get the same sense that you did, that they are shifting to a mostly player driven experience. They spent a lot of time talking about the ORG stuff because a lot of what they had was new. They talked about the stations as an end game goal but I don't see that as taking away from the living universe. They did also say that we are going to be getting more NPC driven missions along with the Mobiglass missions, requiring us to meet actual NPCs to get the jobs. Similar to Twitch and Echart. I get that they didn't talk about Quanta and the living universe this time around but there were no statements saying they were leaving those by the wayside as well. They have already been putting out multiple events where we are reacting to what is happening in the universe around us. I've seen no signs that they are leaving that behind, see the upcoming "Save Stanton" mission. I just don't see that what you expected originally is not still there, they just didn't talk about it in as great of detail as there was more new information to get to us. I guess I've always seen SC as a sandbox game where I will live but not necessarily be able to influence in great amounts. I don't see that as having changed with what they announced for 1.0. It just seems that they've defined more of what I can expect to do and progress through.
Oh they could put out a Hundred systems in a week , you can do that with procedural tech however it would be NO Mans SKY/StarField/Elite Dangerous empty husks of planets. Nobody wants that I would have been happy with 10 systems but I'll take 5 Dense ones at first, and then they will Add more systems later a couple every year to keep the cash flowing.
they talked breifly about economy and say that their plans havent changed about it so quanta and living economy is still onboard. All we saw at this CC will be ADD to everything else
I'm not really surprised it is leaning more towards survival Base building type of gameplay. Because we've had for a long time, the need for players to eat and drink to live. It's looking like Star Wars Galaxies with a survival mechanic
The thing is it's not JUST that. In true SC fashion that whole aspect of the game's totally optional basically. This seems to be what a lot of people are missing.
Perhaps it was a mistake for CIP to not clearly define the difference between thier base building system and the 1.0 presentation as it seem like, for Ant at least, they were absorbed as the same thing. Base building is not REPLACING anything, its just another system. They went out of thier way to announce NPC quests are going to be the main way players progress instead of the mobiglass system. It still sounds like we are just people in a living breathing universe. I don't think a solo player building a space station is very realistic.
This is also my take as well. I don't think anything shown at CitCon is coming at the expense of their original vision (mostly). It's still my understanding that players will be the minority and NPCs will still outnumber us. Just look at the Starchitect panel. They talked about having thousands of NPC POIs generated on planets. I imagine that player bases will just fill the spaces in between and likely won't grow to those numbers on a single planet. But I agree that dedicating that much time to end-game org stuff in the 1.0 panel may have skewed some viewers' expectations.
@@VLK_StaticI am actually not to sure. Numbers do not add up. It you look at the amount of players, even if everyone builds only a small base, that's 6 digits of bases between around 20 planets and let's say 80 moons. That sounds pretty crowded to me
@@TimothySnowman I hope so, economics at Elite style would be more realistic, than on EvE way. We are just few in universe, on numbers. There could still be perks to built assets.
@@dj_dojo I mean there are 7 Billion people on earth, and it doesn't feel too crowded. 100,000 player distributed between 100 planets and moons sounds like enough space.
I started backing this game in my mid to late 30s, I am 50 now, by the time this game is "finished" I will be 60. The truth is, and I said this almost a decade ago, this game will never see completion, it will forever be an alpha, forever be under construction and forever be waiting to be "finished" if they can somehow manage to keep players funding it for another 10 years.
It will never be done. Because that's how games work. They will always need more money to keep the lights on. Wow doesn't work as a charity. But the game will release and stop being an alpha. I'm betting 2028. I was in my late 20s when I pledged and I'm over 40 now and I'm sure it will happen a few years from now. Development has been speeding up a lot last few years.
I'm assuming that 1.0 will likely not have anywhere near the amount of bugs the current build, and 4.0 have. People think 1.0 is something that will never happen, but in reality they been talking about Pyro being built for years, and now it's in evocati people still think there will be no progress. 1.0 is the next mile stone since 4.0 it's almost ready.
Ironic. This game spent 14 years in development Hell with promises of being everything _Elite Dangerous_ wasn't, and turns out to basically be _Elite Dangerous_ 1.5 but with five star systems instead of an entire galaxy. But hey, ship interiors.
Its 5 systems ON Release not forever, there another 3 systems just in Sq 42 and a 6th system announced at CitCon Castra, not to mention the Banu, Xi'an Vanduul and Kerthak systems. They are allowing us to Build our own ships so adding systems will be the only way to expand and make more money.
@@AlbertoMartinez765 Dude that is just cope. They are back tracking on stuff now as they are out of cash. If they don't release something Chris will get sued into oblivion. Its gone from living breaking universe space sim to a survival space game.
And yet so many ED players would give anything for SC like spaceship interiors. While whole galaxy sounds “amazing” it’s very baren and empty. I would rather have 5 highly detailed planets at launch… However with this time of development I would expect to visit space myself sooner than SC launches.
I've literally met a new relationship partner, got married, had 2 children, and put them through junior high before the 1.0 release, and the original promises made are so far blasted out into space it's really not the same game as far as I'm concerned. I want *nothing to do* with any Eve Online nonsense game mechanics, and it shouldn't have taken 13 years to figure this out.
if they wanted detailed rpg elements, they should've started with a web UI game so I can play this shit remotely, might as well if it takes an hour to get ready to fly out of your hanger with all your gear loaded
I have always thought it was going to be first person eve with more sim elements, but I was playing eve at the time it was first announced - it feels like station building is a natural end game, like I never interacted with corps or zero sec when I played eve and still enjoyed it EDIT: After watching the full video, I understand more what others were expecting - I guess I enjoy sandbox elements more so it doesn't bother me, but if you expected (and promised, but I didn't follow SC for many years so I don't know what promises they made) a lot of handcrafted missions then I get why this would be upsetting
i dont think you understand how long games take to produce. diablo 3 took 11 years from start to finish. gta 6 has been in development since about 2015. metroid dread took 16 years. pyschonaughts also took 15-16 years. the game for the content is trying to provide is within reason.
@@klikk99 if any future game is ANYTHING like Eve Online, which I began playing in 2005, I wouldnt touch it. Eve Online is a scam, it is a p2w "loss simulator", it rewards the *worst* sorts of people, and it reflects the dog-eat-dog fantasies of libertarians and wealthy people. Its disgusting, it tricks people into investing tons of time and money. Its a good thing I invested less than $100 in SC back in 2011. I would feel like an idiot if I had spent more...
@@metalrain300these people aren't going to listen to sense because they just don't get it, we live in a time where people want tomorrows game yesterday. It's all the internet pron I reckon
As someone with very little stake in the game (a gifted key from years and years ago), I think this company bit off more than they can chew. Making a first impression is important. What I've gotten from them is they think they can just tease features and take in money, and do the entire development backwards. Conventions, features, sizzle reels, celebrity actors, but no full release after over a decade. People are rightly perturbed by their approach because it's atypical of a development cycle for even the biggest games releasing today. I'm sure with three quarters of a billion in funding they can both develop and create production value through their conventions and tech spotlights, but it rubs me the wrong way. I just see more promised features beautifully rendered in advance of a show, and not a realized product with said features in it. There's a reason people are able to contain excitement for a game like GTA 6, because it has the prestige and proven success of its franchise to support it. This is a company putting out their first product and it feels like they're building their 20th after decades of envelope-pushing success. I just don't understand it. All I can say is I feel for the people who feel duped, and I hope the ones who have given and continue to give money get the product they're promised, in a timely manner consistent with their evolving expectations.
@@YouLikeBosch over a decade development without release it not too rare for big gaming projects, but I still have to agree. Doing the crowd funding way, or backwards as you call it, created mayor problems. Promising stuff they might or might not be able to pull off to draw in funds became their marketing model. This includes creating and selling ships for game loops that are far from done or final. This has become some sort of death spiral for the game development progression.
Problem is that Chris had issues releasing games in the past as well. Freelancer got delayed and delayed cause he always wanted to keep adding stuff. That is great right? Someone with passion and want to have all these amazing things in a game. Yeah, but making those things take time and then new technology arrives so he wants that included, and then he wants that and then and then. Freelancer went the same direction. Their first publisher was giving him time, but Microsoft bought that publisher and they had enough of it and kicked him off the project and let another team finish the game cause there was no end to the development if they let him create the game. Now he has no publisher, there is no one telling him "Dude, release the freaking game already! It's been long enough now!". Yes making games can take a long time, especially ambitious open world/galaxy ones. Problem is, most games that took so long to make were never revealed till they were in a much further state of development so gamers only had to wait 2 or so years. They also didn't do early access so no one bought into it when they were 20something and now being 40something and still don't have the game they bought into. Don't forget, the original release date was set for 2014. Yeah I rather have a proper working game with enough content, but at this point I really begin to believe the scam theories, seeing how much money they make with the pledge store and have ships on "in stock" for digital products what do you mean "in stock", that is just a scummy tactic to create FOMO and have people rush to buy it, and now the news of the pledge store being a thing that will be there in the final game, like WTF, pay to win to the extreme?
There is higher chance that we will be able to commercially visit space IN PERSON within our lifetime than this game getting released with 100% of the promised content.
This is a troll post. Not saying anything is incorrect, they did say 2026. But that's for Squadron 42. He's talking about SC here. Not SQ42. Yet you come in here yelling about SQ42. Why? It wasn't the topic. Tired of hearing people like you just trying to make a ruckus for the sake of it. You want to talk about that issue maybe go find a video taking about that, make a spectrum post, or even make your own video. Just tired of hearing complaining especially when it has nothing to do with the video.
@@mandalore41 I'd say it's closer to Star Citizen itself, in that it'll never release at 1.0. SQ42 was supposedly 'feature complete' last year and only needed polish. Yeah right. Now it's at least two more years, which given how all their other dates are failures is highly unlikely.
@@Elwaves2925 it's so demoralizing to hear them say a date, then come out with a bedsheets type video talking about features that don't seem to be critical to progressing toward that feature complete date. I'm more apathetic at this point. If it happens, great, if not, oh well.
CIG has stated that the ratio between NPCs and players will be about 90% NPCs to 10% players. That is still the plan. Players will be able to influence some things yes, but the game surely won't be dominated by them, especially in the more populated systems. Maybe in the more empty systems or planets players will be able to stablish themselves and be more numerous than npcs in that specific location, but that's it. You will be able to play solo or with others, across several career options. On most types of jobs you likely won't be as effective solo compared to a full team, but the option will be there.
But org end game IS side content. As a solo player you can have a career in whatever you want. You can be an assassin for a crime organization or a bounter hunter, amongts many other jobs, and build a cabin in the redwoods. What's the issue? You can even end up going to such a station to purchase stuffs, or a contract for one org. Its not the core focus of star citizen, they spent 45 mins before talking about the loop for players BEFORE getting to org end games.
So excited to get bullied and extorted by massive clans every time I log in!! Thank you Star Citizen! Switching to the Eve route after 12 years will DEFINITELY not alienate thousands of solo players!
Welp, guess SC is not a game for people like me who wants to play on my own or with 1-2 friends, any longer. Clan-focused games have some of the most toxic tryhards of the entire gaming market. "Nice" to see that we're back to this kind of game again. I'll go back playing Avorion I suppose...
the ones throwing money at them are the whales in these big orgs buying 20 copies of every insanely expensive ship. it makes sense that CIG will start catering more and more to these kinds of players because those are the ones paying the bills. i suspect development will shift more and more to them and less about solo players, sadly.
"Community Driven Content" just means that a small fraction of the player base will be making all the decisions and having all the fun while regular players, who can't dedicate 10 hours a day to a game, will have no impact and no story content to enjoy.
I mean they did talk about how they will now have a main story as well as smaller planet stories in the game. I admit i wish they explained more of it. But it does seem like they want to have stories and stuff for what you are doing.
@@DustinHarms Why would he waste his time? Why would anyone after a decade of delays, broken promises, feature creep and predatory cash shop practices? Why does this "game" even have fans still? It's absolutely bonkers.
I was actually just talking about this with my wife, and I feel like part of this is that the only part of the game they have right now are a set of systems on the border of the UEE. Everything they showed during their 1.0 presentation looks like exactly what I'd expect from a game of this kind out on the frontier of settled space, but the issue is right now that's all there is. Seeing Terra on that list is good. They're going to need to lean hard on having those more central and populated worlds feel like that living and breathing universe as they'd talked about before if they want to give real variety to all this. I love the idea of a fully player-driven sandbox but only out in places where it makes sense, and they're saying that their "Launch" product is only going to include that one area, so the solo players who want an NPC populated world to live in and move around in are just going to have to wait. Which doesn't seem great. For context my wife has a LOT of hours sunk into Oblivion, so the Subsumption AI system really caught her interest, and obviously she's far from alone. I REALLY hope this is just them trying to get game loops together and have something for players to do while they work on other elements, and not a pivot like some people are afraid of.
I’m a solo player (and early backer) who was very interested into exploration gameplay. And with just 5 systems, exploration is going to be non-existent. Simply. I’m personally very very disappointed with the turn the game is taking.
That's 5 systems at launch, they said in the presentation they would continue to add systems over time. Not that it's a good thing, but at least it's something.
They literally showed NPCs outposts moving and cave formations 5 systems of planets and moons unless your idea of exploration means jumping into a system and looking at its star for a few seconds then you will likely have tons of places to explore, map, loot, etc
@@ioritenshi the idea of exploration was captured by Chris Roberts and it was not scanning on the same places to get base building materials. exploration is dead
I think the problem with it being so sandbox survival focused is that a lot of Star Citizen players are of the older crowd. We don't have time to dedicate to these kinds of games to get anywhere with them.
Correct, I play Eve-online as an older player, I don't have the time to put to it and so no point joining a corp. I just play around the edges, solo mining, etc.
We weren't quite so 'older' when we started... Maybe both EVE and Star Citizen will be good retirement activities? However, I will likely be worm food before 1.0 comes out.
@@Miner-dyne I know, right? The "older crowd" now is the same crowd that got the kickstarter off the ground in the first place. We've seen dozens of other products rise, flail and flop with lofty ambitions, CIG isn't somehow immune to poor development management. Something something wisdom and age. Well anyway, at least I'll have something to play in my retirement home.
Not only Solo players will be at a disadvantage but also, small ORGS. There are massive orgs with thousands of players. Each one of those players will also be able to settle personal bases but also benefit from being part of massive orgs. Their land claims will not count towards their Orgs claims and as there seems to be no claim limitations, then, the very large ORGS might very well own the Solar systems where Resources are more valuable, but also, all of their members will also be able to have claims and use them for extra input for their orgs... and all of this in lawful systems. So basicly, extra large orgs will have tentacles everywhere and that's a massive disadvantage versus small orgs. Lastly, I don't see why massive orgs would allow solo players or small orgs to settle down anywhere in the systems they own. They will have thousands of Orgs members do the tasks they need to gather all resources, 24/7. Good luck to anyone that wants a small plot of land try to settle a base there without the massive Orgs permission (Probably under taxes).
I glad they've reigned in the feature creep, but the move from solo play has killed it for me. I want a game I can dip into for an hour or two. I used to be competitive in Eve, and that was practically a 2nd job.
This complete change from the game that we were sold on feels like the devs realized they NEED to release a "final product" sooner rather than later, and to do that, they have to simply or remove some of their more lofty goals. Going from Living Universe to Sandbox feels like a way for them to make it maybe simpler for them, with not having to develop as much on the AI systems for resources, trade, etc. 5 systems instead of 100 feels like a time saver as well, without going the everything is procedurally generated route, leaving everything feeling like a reskin, and instead just doing 5 systems. Obviously not having AI crew in the final product is an obvious time saver, that would be complicated and very time consuming. But I still feel like they focus way too much on cooperative systems. To the point where the only people who *really* play the game are streamers and video makers who have a horde of fans to pull from, and every normal person just wont be able do anything that matters. I dont know if I like this. I understand them reducing the scope of the game to get a "final product", and then hopefully continue to develop the game to what they promised over time. That probably is a smart move, honestly, if this means it takes them 3 more years instead of 6 more. But I don't really like the shift to "everything is player driven, not a living universe that you are a part of". I honestly think they're going to make it too hardcore, and that it will fail, no matter how good it actually is, because hardcore games like that typically don't do well over the long run.
@@fsqabr AI Blades, from my recollection, are more for turrets/systems, not things like cargo and damage control, things that are more of an interactive process within a ship, rather than done through a screen/terminal, which would be more the realm of AI Crew. The blades would help, like the head-theory we have of them, but you still need crew as well, which for 95% of people (if they're being honest), is why we need AI Crew, as well
@@hansyolo8277 They did mention they will be able to handle a bunch of stuff that crew would be able to do, just maybe slightly more limited in ability. which i kind of see what they are going for. i will hold my opinion till i see it in action.
so CIG realised they really cant make star citizen the game it was meant to be and just abandon the whole thing for players to "make their own content" lmao. thats not why people wanna play space games. people play space games to experience space, something that is vastly unknown... unlike social relationships, which are played out.
You got it !!! They wont be able to deliver in the next 5 years the dream we all funded. So on release they need something to show for, so all the work to make a living universe is on the players.. aitn that a spit in face. "Sorry folks, I know u wanted a freelancer story like PU, but because Chris Roberts mismanged our funds, re hashed projects countless times, feature creep this game into oblivion and gave most funding to SQ42, well we dont have anything of real playable substance to show for. Sooo we have created a new vision for the game, craft, build and survive. Its your job now, make it a story out of it, use your imagination. Build our world for us.. the world we failed to deliever. At least now we have an excuse for a release. Have fun.. - This is the BS we get.
At the end of the day, my problem with SC remains. I want a space game like this where I can hop on for an hour a day and maybe play 3 or 4 hours on the weekends with friends. In one hour in Elite, I can get into my ship, play, and that’s that. I feel that in SC, you have to go through a bunch of extra steps to do a similar amount of things, while also being mindful of the kind of warranty I have, where I leave my ship so it doesn’t get stolen, checking my base, collecting materials, and keeping my character alive, fed, and hydrated, etc. I don’t see myself enjoying it in the long run without it feeling like a job.
I don't think Star Citizen ever was intended to be what you are hoping for unfortunately. While I do agree that I'd love something like that as well, I think expecting that from Star Citizen is setting yourself up for disappointment. I don't personally know how I feel. I want to try it out, but I think I'm not dedicated enough to stick around to experience the majority of the game aspects.
@@ioritenshi Exactly. This goes for any game. Don't set your own expectations based on your desires, but instead based on what the developers are intending to do with the project. If you go into FFXIV and hate story and love gear and skill-customization, then you don't install FFXIV. You go play WoW or something else instead. If you love super complex systems and steep learning curves and feeling like you always have more to learn, you don't play Diablo 4, you play Path of Exile and vice versa. Star Citizen has never, to my understanding, been anything but a player driven narrative - at least not primarily. I do hope they can expand on that little by little but I was never expecting that from its first release based on everything else they have displayed so far. This does not surprise me whatsoever, even if it's not suitable for me.
Even the warping between star systems was a deal breaker to me. I want to point my ship at a star like in Elite or No Man's Sky and just warp, not play a minigame where I risk damage.
I don’t play Star Citizen, but I was considering it until now. I hate sand box games. The rich dudes rule them, and solo players get screwed. I don’t want to see another Eve Online game. If I wanted that style, then I would just play Eve Online which is already available. This new version of Star Citizen won’t be ready for another five years, so I will just watch countless reviews of frustrated players who are forced to use a buggy game that is incomplete until then. But thanks for what was a great summary of the new direction and its goals.
I thought it was going this way many years ago and knew the online was going to suck for solo players. It's for groups and griefers. Over a decade promising a new Freelancer game we could "enjoy solo" and still no S42 in our hands.
I am a solo player, and while I am of course a little bummed NPC crew wont make launch, it wouldn't be so much different than right now, if anything it might be slightly better if ai blades can automate a little bit of stuff for me. SC never seemed to me like it was trying to be space WoW, it has a setting, lore, and NPC driven content of course, but it was always sandbox-y. Even if it did have tons of story content and all hand crafted missions and stuff i wouldn't play them, and i play every game this way. I just log in, and go get in some kind of trouble, or go explore someplace i haven't been, or go build something; I have little adventures, and entirely on my own terms, on my own time. For me, and I would think any other folks who once loved EVE or Elite, this direction for SC is just fine.
@@dero985 interesting. I'm surprised to see millions raised for star citizen each year. Sometimes I wonder about marketing companies and their proficiency. Until then X4 Foundations will do
The difference is that SC is crowdfunded, unlike other companies and their games, where the money comes from private investors where the absolute basic need is to get benefits, and therefore they will never invest in dubious proposals, if you where to bring the idea of a space sim right now, to any board of investors for a next project AT ANY company you would be thrown out the window like the meme. SC is possible because the team only answers to the the numbers they have to work provided by the community, if they had to answer to a board of directors and investors we might have seen the racing stuff as a standalone game, and the same goes for any other thing like salvaging, or mining.
@@unlimitedslash You're talking like a salesperson. Star Citizen earning over $700m on its Beta just smells like a scam to me. The very fact that they haven't approached publishers just screams that they aren't looking to set any hard targets. It's turned out to be a carrot on the end of a stick for the fans.
@@mrpositronia You don't need a publisher to make a game, in fact, many indies get screwed over due to draconian publisher contracts. Heck i've seen some contracts for publishing that literally NEGATE any income to the studio until the publisher has gotten it's share, and even after that they keep sucking 40+% of the income. People throw shit at steam for the 30%, but having seen the shit i've seen, let me tell you, Steam IS FUCKING CHEAP accounting for all the features it adds, not only for regular users but also game devs. SC earning 700m with ONLY AN ALPHA (it's not even a Beta) running for testing purposes is fishy, and looks scammy, i get that, but look at it from the fans of scifi perspective: we are FUCKING THIRSTY of a damn good space sim game, the last good one we had was Freelancer, back in 2005, with the exception of X4, but that's certainly not an easy game to hop on, the others are either space minecraft (NMS), or crappy space fighter simulator (Elite), and then we have some rogue projects here and there like Flight of Nova, that's it. At this point we are gonna keep pushing money into the game, even if it takes 10 more years to reach the announced 1.0, because no other game company in this planet would ever risk making something like SC, no investor would be crazy enough to put money on this game, either, we pay it ourselves (at the risk of failing and loosing it all, and at the expanse that some of it will be going towards not really needed goals like those renovations they are doing in the studios where they are trying to mimic ship interiors and have a freaking bar with bartender included), or we will NEVER see something like this coming. Look at the current market of videogames, publishers only sign for 3 things: CoD, Assassin's Creed, or a mix of both, that's what's been going on for the past 15 years. You can play Cyberpunk 2077, that you will not have a need to play any assassin's creed, or CoD, or any other clone ever. The only exception to this are the ever lasting niche things like LoL, Minecraft, or if you want an FPS, Apex, which is another CoD clone. The vidiya market is stagnant AF, at the border of absolute collapse, the only one doing it's own thing is Nintendo, and just because they can keep getting away with SLIGHTLY tweaking the current "meta" and then throwing some spin offs in the middle to not let people burn out of the same damn game over and over.
Im a MASSIVE space and scifi guy, I spent untold hours in games like Freelancer, Independence War 2, Dark Star One, the X series, Elite Dangerous, No Man's Sky, Starfield.. etc etc When I first saw Star Citizen crowdfund in 2012 I was so excited, it seemed like a dream come true.. and that gave me pause, it was TOO good to be true and I ultimately chose not to contribute at that stage. Needless to say I am glad I didnt. The amount of money they have consumed is obscene and to take 12 years and STILL not have a 1.0 is absolutely insane. One that will STILL be pumped full of MTX. Such a shame that this came to this point. I hope that they release a complete experience without the repugnant mtx but lets be honest, thats not going to happen (at least the 2nd part). Might give it a look when it goes F2P or is deeply discounted.
See, what they were offing in 2012 I thought was doable. The problems were bloat. They just kept adding more and more till it just became something they couldn't make. Like X4 is almost everything star citizen wanted to be. It might be better to just get x4, use it as a template and add the bits it is missing that star citizen has and you are gold.
I'm one of the semi original 2013 backers. when star citizen switched to a "buy ships for big money" funding model to fuel development I fell into the camp of people who believed the game would never release. I don't know how many ships SC now has, but it must be way more then Elite Dangerous, they were literally filling every possible tiny niche of ship requirement to keep the money flowing. So, with this announcement, I'm very happy to say, on one hand, I was wrong. I think this new model will actually permit a game to release, it takes what they have or could reasonably put in place and put a game out, and that has to be a really good thing. On the other hand, if the game had been advertised in 2013 as a player driven sandbox, with content being created by players, and mostly reliant on people playing in large groups and needing to spend lots of time in game to accomplish things, I would not have backed. It wasn't what I thought the game would be, and is not at all what I signed up for. I think there are a ton of players out there in this current generation of gamers who will love this, but sadly I'm not one of them. It's hard not to feel let down, but as I say, I am genuinely pleased a game will now very likely release.
by then we will have SC integrated in our brain :) with Elons toys no need for fast computers then :) and AI will be developing games or do the biggest part of it, it will go fast and flawless then.
People love to hate, but there's nothing else like this game. I've been in since the beginning and I have been enjoying it every step of the way. As a programmer myself, I am in awe of everything they've accomplished. Real time server meshing is basically magic.
Server meshing is a concept that Chris heard while working on Ultima online. Since then it sticked in his head. Many mmos are already doing it. A bit like many other features CIG are presenting at Citizencon are options that already exist in other game engines like UE. He is rebranding already existing concepts. Most people agree that the game he has in mind is revolutionary, the issue is how he is trying to get there. A lot of money is lost fumbling around, trying to re-invent a wheel that is already out there. The reason why no one attempting this yet is because it is too massive to start with.
So you want games like Warframe, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Trek Online, WildStar, Anarchy, Entropia, Starwars TOR, Phantasy Star, Destiny, ED, to name a few off the top of my head? Secondly where exactly did they say they were scraping the other planned content? They actually did mention the main story of SC and doing missions and jobs for NPCs and NPC organizations multiple times in the 1.0 talk. But no lol. Time to panic. They mentioned a PVP end game and suddenly the game is moving in a direction that is bad. Do you enjoy the current situation where the PVP community has zero content other than farming salt from people trying to mine? Is that the game you want lol?
I don't think SC ever advertised itself as a theme park mmo... from the start it was a sandbox mmo. But I do get what you want, I would like a freelancer type single player game along with the wing commander type single player game like SQ42
Star Citizen's development has taken so long and we've seen promises come and go, so I'm going to continue to wait and not exclaim disappointment until I'm actually playing whatever 1.0 ends up being at release. That said, I think what will really make me happy is to see this project in a polished state, whatever becomes the game's core.
I can't see a solo player being able to build a quiet outpost somewhere, with the idea of being left alone to do their own thing. With so few planets, even with the huge planet surfaces, I can see dissappointment in my future, as I pick up the what is left of my humble abode ad infinitum.
you can actually without being bothered in the Stanton system and so few planets lol moons ? and im sure also asteroid base how many times have you stumbled onto someone outside the regular hubs just walking over a moon surface or planet. Look at earth 8 billion people and there are still lots of places where if you would go there you would not see a human ever.
@@nemesisone8927well, planets in SC are _much_ smaller than real players, having just 2% the surface area compared to a real planet, so that's a really bad comparison. Also, the current game severely restricts the number of players in a given "universe". So sure, you can be left alone when there's only 50 players in the entire Stanton system, but the entire pitch of SC's shared universe is that everyone will be in the same "universe", so you'll be looking at tens of thousands of players in every system...I mean, in theory because I'll highly skeptical that'll ever happen.
The first time the player base does something that the developers haven't expected (as have happened many times in EVE), and they then have to do a retcon, the whole thing is gonna blow up. Difference here being that the player base is not prepared for such things as they are in EVE.
1.0 seems like you'll be able to be in a universe that is "alive and real" like you say. The main concerns I'm seeing online is that people wont be able to solo space stations. Every time I look at the game, nothing about it says "solo". All I got is me and like 16 mates, I'm considering just going to big ORG and requesting we manage a space station of theirs.
make an org of 16 no problem at all join an alliance and bam you can do what you like EVE example :) perhaps good idea to play eve no joke its a good learning school for SC later
My concern is not soloing space stations but the whole endgame loop around them this will be locked down by few big orgs giving them the only access to rare resources needed for Tier 5 ships and Tier 3 FPS gear which in turn will pretty much secure they hold onto those planets forever, sure they may sell those resources on the market for extremely high prices but again that only secures their hold on the resources as nobody will be able to afford to fight against the org with cheap unlimited access to the highest tier ships and gear.
I'm excited, but not holding my breath in anticipation. I'll keep Star Citizen on my radar, occasionally play the game - but won't really invest more energy into it until all these promises actually get delivered, which is like 3 to 4 years from now, assuming Roberts doesn't run out of money before then - which from many rumours, appears could happen. I have played both solo and co-op in MMOs for decades. Both game play styles have their advantages and disadvantages. As I've gotten older, I've preferred to be able to solo most of the time, with the occasional foray into group play. But I don't think I'm going to want to play an MMO for long that forces me into group play - so I do hope Star Citizen, if it survives to 1.0 release, does keep in mind solo play styles.
Survival can be okay if you don't need to micromanage everything. It would be nice if your character didn't get hungry or thirsty if you're in a ship or a city, but if you crash land on a planet, then it becomes something to manage.
@aviator2252 Not a chance tbh, I get people would like to dream but the polish alone needed in the PU needs more than 2-3 years, especially as systems are incorporated into the title.
This literally just sounds like they realised scripting and crafting the single player experience was too much hassle for the time and money it would cost, based on the time and money already spent. Not surprised. That's what happens when you spend 11 years crafting one world and system and backing technology for simulating more, suddenly you run out of money and 90% of the filler work isn't done and has to be scoped out.
12:00 to address your concerns, i think the nice thing about a sandbox with the scale SC 1.0 is shooting for is that you don't have to participate in the big org/stations/thing. You can build a shipping empire and never get directly involved with any other orgs. Just pick your goal and go do it. You could run pve missions forever and just buy the things you need. I like that it looks like they are trying to keep a very flexible playing style in the game. I'll be upset if the basically force you to play the PU "story line" to unlock certain things.
You'll be forced to play the story line to unlock "citizenship". StarCitizen originally required to play SQ42 to become a citizen but that now is an independent game. Without Citizenship you'll be a civillian and you won't have the privileges of citizens, like buying land wherever you want in the UEE. This was announced in the CItizenCon few days ago.
CIG promised a game, they didn't tell everyone the first 15 years was going to be used to create the game engine from scratch with minimal game playability and massive bugs as they develop the game engine, not the game. Players paid to play a game, not fund the game engine development, they need to be separate. SC funding the creation of 1 or more other games and game engine. We don't pay Unreal $800 million for a buggy barely playable small game while they work on a new game engine from scratch (hypothetical).
Let's not forget that as technology improves, the game engine will need to be overhauled accordingly, thus making the assets of the game outdated and will also need to be overhauled. How many times this has already happened, I don't know, but for how long will it continue, I still don't know.
@@mrpositronia overhauling existing content is much easier than creating it from scratch and plenty off companies do it today, but with the level of detail CIG uses on assets, the odds off them becoming outdated, are near 0. Best example of a game that could use a facelift is WoW, but here we are 20 years later, with alot of old content still in active use
They are making it so you can't just jump in and have fun, and build your own thing. Imagine building a small home/base on a planet. Some griever flys by with a nuke, then laughs in chat about it. Then you have pirates.... ugg... people who NEED grinders in order to take from others. They don't produce anything of value. Then you have forced team play, so every payout is not divided into less and less, but you need to pay more and more for fuel, repairs, insurance, etc. The game they are pushing is pushing many people out. People who have survived many wipes, and rebuilt, will just walk away.
Despite my love for space games as probably many of you guys, when the timeframe is so long and undetermined it doesn't make sense to me to have interest in SC. I'm human, I'm turned 40 this year and my life isnt endless. I prefer playing with something real and finished. Just my 2 cents of course. 😂
It's sad that a lot of SC fans thrive on the dream, rather than the reality. Mind you, it's the dream that made the dev team their riches. So keep selling the dream.
@@Star-bp5jjerr MSFS will never be done. They will always be releasing new content, new planes, airports scenery, textures. If you define "it's done" as in nothing more will be added, like when you get to the end of a book then it will never be done. And know what that's fine most MMO games are exactly the same Star Trek online is still releasing content, Star Wars the Old Republic is still doing that too and that game started in 2011. Not sure why people take exception to this for this game?
@@kityhawk2000that's a whole lot of bad faithed bullshitery. The game is done, as in, fully released, but is still supported and updated with bug fixes and content here and there. But the main game is released. Don't try and twist reality.
@@kityhawk2000 You are completely missing the point. Msfs is a product that is finished. Its released ! It has 99% basic core functions of a flight simulator. Its not in alpha state, Talking about extra content and updates being released is completely irrevelent. Ive Been playing sim for the last 20 years, I know what im talking about. Yes we take issue with starcitizen because its 12 years with 700+ million and not even 50% done.. so your point is errr.
As a matter of fact, and I remeber this because it was one of the Reasons to pledge in 2013, Chris Roberts said that Star Citizen is ment to be played by a single Player per ship and that crew the stations with real players is purely optional and the whole is designed to have NPC-Crew at different levels of quality and that the AI, in general, can not be differentiated from a players behavior etc. To now say that this will not be part of 1.0 or even not be the case anymore is, besides many other things, a big promise not kept. The whole Idea of even the capital ships like the Idris was to be able to run it all alone and be on par with real people on stations if youre NPC crew is of good quality. Yet another reason to really think about asking the money back. Would be a nice PC I can buy from that money, one I should buy to play the game anyway.....
HUh you didn't hear about the post on reddit today huh? Why don't you take 5 min and go read that reply from the dev and then comeback an erase this as it just makes you look foolish and uniformed.
Remember that 'solo play' doesn't mean you should be able to do everything by yourself. The Mandalorian does not repair his own ship. He lands at a mechanic and pays others for the things he doesn't do himself. And he drives a single-pilot ship - not a capital battleship. The loner character still lives in a world full of other people, and pays them for services as needed. So, an expectation that the loner will build a battleship is kind of silly.
I have a theory that this game is a retirement plan for developers that got tired of the industry. So they started their own company knowing the game would never finish. Yet they keep making money off the potential gamers see. It's a theory, likely a wrong one. But for real, how much longer are they thinking it's going to take to finish this game? Open alpha for over a decade now, that's just a BIT insane.
For me I'm still excited for the release, most things make sense, but let's see how they turn out. I don't care about 100 star systems when they first 5 are very detailed. Base Building + Player Stations sounds amazing. I mostly will explore, mine and build bases and do goofy stuff or simply fly around planets for fun. But i also love sandbox games. Also i like the idea of player driven gaming experience. When it works.
base building and player stations like they showed it looks boring and a waste of my time, they will make the time and money u need to actually be able to start building one of these insanely high like everything else
@@chaosewokyeah... Cause it's a space station, it would be expensive. It should be expensive. I'm glad it'll be something that only groups will be able to afford. And boring? Did you miss the presentation? These things are modular with all kinds of additions and attachments and you know they'll add more a couple years after the initial release.
I never liked any game that had base building. So this killed any enthusiasm I may have had (which was a while back now, I have to admit). I really didn't like No Man's Sky for all its modern day gaming tropes.
It is a very interesting direction they are taking. A type of gameplay loop that lands itself to a more hardcore player base like the one we see in Eve. However without the leveling system of Eve it might also be possible for more casual players to participate in some of the gameplay. That being said, if Star Citizen actually allows true null sec, then that part of space is going to be out of bounds for casuals I'd assume, as Corps will quickly take over and shoot down anything that does not belong to them unless they implement some incentive to not do that.
I've been watching SC basically from the start (didn't get in on the kickstarter, but was following back then and bought in shortly after, once the pledge store was up). I don't quite understand where some of the "this isn't what I signed on for" sentiment is coming from. Land ownership and base building were among the earliest promises, way back before we even had functional ships to play with. I don't think CIG is above criticism at all, but the idea that building would be part of the game has been there from the start. I think some of the mixed reaction can be explained by player expectations coming from what's currently in-game or what people other than CIG have made the game out to be, but also it feels like some people didn't watch the same panels I did, because it looks like solo play will be viable and rewarding. For example, they talked about the guilds having representatives that you'll call and meet with, NPCs who will offer you work and in that way guide your journey through the verse. Of course there's now the announcement of a story for the MMO side (separate from SQ42) as well. Yes some of what they talked about for solo gameplay loops involved crafting, but since they've already said players can sell what they craft, it seems like you'll be able to avoid the crafting if you hate it by simply buying things off other players. At the end of the day, most MMOs have group content as the main end-game content. I don't know if that's entirely avoidable. SC seems to be building the resources for players to tackle some things from a solo perspective (group finder for events and end-game missions), and then there's going to be a level of gameplay that's angled towards orgs. Some of the big promises CIG has made through the years, like having big combined-arms combat, kind of assumes large numbers of players working together. I think the picture of 1.0 they gave us represents delivering on the core aspects of the game they have been talking about making, as well as promising more to come. I understand people will have anxieties over their idealised version of the game inevitably collapsing into what CIG can (and wants to) do, but some of the criticism strikes me as a little oblivious to what actually has been promised through the years.
Agreed here… I’m also lost where this “survival” term is coming from… there are quite literally 2 high sec systems for people to stay in with AI safety/coverage for your small bases… low risk/low reward but in return a base that can’t be destroyed… so I’m just a little confused how this is a “survival” feel. It’s only that for no security systems and even then I think they’ll look into timers for attacking so people are aware when they need to defend
Most of the commenters feel like they somehow know the game better than the devs, while having a shallow binary understandment and taking any new information as a replacement of older ones. They get offended that they didn't want an mmo when it was always stated. They get outraged that the game is now "only" for guilds, when it was stated that it is providing single player content and narrative. They hold on words like "end game content" without using their brains to understand that maybe, that end game is for a certain slice of the player base. It's all short sighted, anything to feel relevant in the age of outrage.
I don't think CIG said that they would abandon the 100 star System goal, but would instead add them as they became available over time. For me, Star Citizen has always been a social game. I play solo when friends are not available, and look forward to the times when we can accomplish goals together. I am not surprised at the direction CIG is taking. I suspect there will continue to be some NPC influence, with contract jobs and incursion events by hostile aliens, like the Vanduul. I am quite excited about this recent CitizenCon peek into the game's future, but I am concerned about CIG's ability to conquer the plague of server instability and eliminate the constant bugs that keep ruining player experiences
yeah CIG says they are going to release with 5 system and idiots are screaming they are only Doing 5 Systems forever!! There will be multiple systems released yearly after that eventually they may hit 100 system or surpass that who cares as long as we can play it all the while.
Any ship that matters takes crew. Most people will have issues crewing a ship, unless it is a planned event. So, CiG just refused to make NPC crew for 1.0 forcing out many players from using their shiny ships for real money! NOT HAPPY
They announced AI Blades for 1.0 (Rich did in Spectrum after the convention), but not NPC for now. Rich said, they will never be as good as a good player and use power, like engines and shields (AI blades and NPC) - much room for speculation still. And you will be easily able to crew up a ship with the new chat and group finder etc.
Didn’t Fallout 76 try to pull this same stunt? “Oh we don’t need NPCs, everything will be played driven.” Remember how well that worked out for them? 😂
This is at the core of the Eve Online debates for years. “I like to mine and run missions in high sec, why am I not safe from those jerks?”. It goes back even farther in other games like Ultima Online and the origin of the term PK’s! communities vs solo players…. Communities build friendship and retention, which is the lifeblood of an MMO, solo players are like rental tenants, they move on when the grass looks greener, like when a Minecraft or Skyrim comes along. In the end, I get the direction for the game, but hate it as one of those solo players, as I did in UO and Eve.
Good observation but as a PVPer I sit on the other side of your fence there, and to be fair, I think that actually you do too.. You may have socialised less in those games but for example in EVE online it's practically impossible to play that game without some interaction with other players as the market is entirely player ran.. When you sell to a buy order, you interacted indirectly with another player, that time you jumped a few systens to find a better price for your Veldspar, you technically PVPed! So you may not play with others, nor appreciate pre-pubescent space pirates blowing your shit up (who does!) but part of your enjoyment of those games and their systems comes from some form of player interaction.. If you're a veteran gamer you'll agree that no matter how detailed CIG made a solo-centric, NPC filled SC game, it wouldn't take you very long to see the limits of the conversation trees, or the predictability of the ai.. There have been some amazing virtual worlds over the years but every time it takes us all about 5 minutes to spot the limits, and from there the immersion slowly seeps away. I reckon that you would find plenty of enjoyable aspects of Star Citizen and that a not too insignificant portion of that enjoyment will come from the unique emergent gameplay situations that even a solo player is bound to discover as they go about their space-business in a world filled with other humans.. Like finding a tonne of wreckage from a recent PVP fight and in that wreckage you find some guys rare helmet that he got for winning at jumptown or something... That sounds much more fun than listening to the same 4 banterous exchanges an NPC Bengal bridge crew fire at eachother every 10 minutes.
CIG mentioned that player driven content is only part of the scope and would be end game material. They had a whole segment speaking about the backbone of the game being the NARRATIVE that drives the story/world/lore. They said that the player would have a choice to either follow missions and content based on the narrative provided OR venture out on their own. They've also detailed how aligning yourself with various NPC factions would either remove or provide access to different rewards and missions through a reputation system. The reason why base building and crafting was such a big segment is because it was never covered in length as it has been in this last event. You seem have taken it as that's the core element but do well to listen to other parts of the event (both days) IF you want to know their direction. NPC reputation and background narrative have always been known to be a core element of the game as it is NOW while in Alpha. Why would they scrap that or shrink it's significance while it's actively being worked on to focus only on player driven narrative? There is solo player content now as there will most likely be built upon at launch.
Why would they shrink it ? Because in the span of time it will take to release 1.0 they will never complete all the core lore function and content promisesd. Hence why they went from Freelancer vision to survival base building and crafting.. they are smart enough to realize project will never see the scope in the next 5 year, so scope gets smaller, hence why all the old backers are getting upset that the game they funded is a far cry from where its going today
@@Star-bp5jj I don't know where you guys are getting this information. What I sited was directly communicated during citcon. The backbone narrative will be accessible to all players to provide a story based playthrough that will involve different missions. Even Obsidian mentioned it himself without realizing the context behind "citizenship". You won't gain citizenship from player based gameplay. It's a result of reaching a point in the background narrative story. Like I said, this was detailed in citcon. I have yet to see CIG stating that they're moving away from a solo player story driven narrative and focusing on PVP/org gameplay.
@@Kakeyoro I think you are confused respectively. To gain the citizenship through story narrative gameplay is achevied only through SQ42, a seprate game, Not the Starcitizen(PU). When funding started for star citizen PU it was pictched as a type of open world modern day freelancer with a living breathing universe. But things have changed, this project is more complex, much bigger vision this means more expensive more time Consuming, ect ect. We are still missing major core mechnicnics in the game, most game loops are missing, they will need to add those in before creating serious narrative driven content/missions/lore. You need to have a foundation before the house is built. To create a background stroy that you can interact with in the PU you would think core feautres would need to be ready first. Thats why I said they started to focus on player created gameplay like building and crafting, something that was never pitched and is not the star citizen we all backed. Now im not saying they will not be working on story driven gameplay in the PU, what im saying is the focus right now is to have something at least playable by 1.0 release, and its Not a rich lore filled universe that you can interact with.. Not at least in the next half decade.
They started the whole 1.0 talking about solo missions in the main story, with many smaller local quests. The space stations are for the mega org end game, not meant for solo players. Do you think that should be attainable for solo players?
On top of that, just because they are "not attainable", for solo players, it doesn't mean they will not benefit, or be able to interact with them, you set home in a non npc populated planet?, but an org has a space station there, welp, you can sell your stuff there, instead of traveling to another system or planet to sell your riches, or interact with other gameplay loops.
@@unlimitedslash EvE and Rust taught us that endgame content will be sealed off to outsiders via strict kill-on-sight rules of engagement. Either you will be a vasall or an enemy of the organisation.
It feels like the direction for the game changed. Crafting games weren't huge when the game first got announced. I'm not that upset about the change, I like crafting games well enough, but I'm disappointed as it doesn't feel like the original vision for the game. Will need to play it to see, but I'm happy 1.0 got announced. No more perpetual early access hell.
1. F them, the vision has change countless times already with endless re polish and feature creep. No wonder why CR got his brit rear end kicked out of hollywood. 2. Who cares about the annoucnement for 1.0, they have anncouned alot of things that we still have not got.. Means nothing.
I found the presentation interesting enough, but I don't expect to see anything that they announced for at least another 3 years. The 1.0 release is probably still at least 5 years away. They still haven't delivered everything they announced at *last year's* event, and now they're announcing a whole load of new things? On top of that, the game has been showing a "Degraded Performance" message ever since 3.42.2 dropped. Oh yeah, and their genius plan to drop the "fullscreen" graphics mode means I now either have to play the game in a smaller window on my main monitor, or run the game at a higher resolution and suffer around 20fps. Thanks for that, CIG.
Yeah 3.24.2 is a pre-hook patch for 4.0 -- so it will never work right until all of the backend systems from 4.0 are brought online since it is the server meshing patch.
Ive been working in games in one form or another for around 14 years, i can tell you. If the tech they are doing can do what they think, it will speed up a lot of how quickly they can deliver. From some of the presentations, some of the tech looks pretty close to ready, others are further out. But i think we might see 1.0 maybe 2-3 years if things track. As to the performance, hopefully issues with patches will be limited, but the big changes will come towards the end, optimization is always the last steps in development.
I honestly don't see the issue with playing borderless, if it bothers you that much, look for a tool similar to "gamescope" on windows, something you can wrap the client in and handle the window behavior externally to the client, works on linux just fine for me. Other ideas is to simply run on borderless and use FSR/DLSS/XeSS to render the game at a lower resolution. They changed it due to being an obsolete legacy function of DX11, the plan is to move entirely to Vulkan, and Vulkan DOESN'T HAVE exclusive fullscreen mode, why? i don't know, but exclusive full screen mode has usually more input lag and can cause stuttering. Also, they already mentioned to have in the works a custom solution for this.
Fair enough. They said 12 to 18 month for T0 basebuilding and monsterhunting If I remember correctly. Addiing the obligatory +1year-CIG rule you'll get to a little less then 3 years.
CIG said at Citcon that they wanted a shorter side story per system. Then you'll still have mission giving NPCs, reputation, and the grind for the best ship upgrades you can get. They're still going to work and release NPC crews, just not right away. But it seems like people need to come to terms that SC is an MMO, and that will have elements that require other player interaction.
Their math ain't mathing. Back when CIG was trying a "small" Kickstarter, they said 100 systems. Now, with well over 500 million in crowdfunding they're saying they can do ... 5 systems? A hundred million + in funding per system?
You're ignorant of the difference. The original kickstarter promised 'Freelancer' style star systems with planets that have a single landing zone. You fly to planet. Select land. Cut scene. Trading screen. Leave. Cut scene. Back in space. It was NOT what it is now, real world Moon sized planets that are fully explorable and base buildable with 100s of points of interest that you can fly to, no loading screens, seemlessly, at any time. The kickstarter vision isn't even close to what it actually morphed into.
@@ryanc2893 plus i'm honestly fine with not getting 100 systems based on the scale of the current one. a couple dozen would be overwhelmingly big so i feel like 5 to start is more than enough.
@@ryanc2893that’s fine but they’ve basically made a different game to the original one that was proposed and many people backed. Many of us wanted a higher fidelity successor to freelancer/space sim. They added all these extra features that weren’t necessary and have made a very different game and had to cut the 100 systems to do it.
@@NRProductionss Your opinion is the minority one then of all the backers. They surveyed backers years ago after hundreds of millions of dollars on what they actually wanted. Vast majority wanted this new direction
I said way back at the early phase of backing, that for the additional star systems, that CIG should adapt the wormhole game system from Eve Online to create procedurally generated exploration points that can become places for groups of players to occupy. It fulfills the exploration, colonization, self-sufficient and potential combat scenarios that come out of these "opportunities". No need for 100 fully built systems, CIG can then focus on everything else on the project timeline. Obviously the above does not just manifest out of the ether, from a dev/prog pov. so would also take time.
День тому+6
NPC driven activity requires someone creating that. That requires manpower and creative minds, which they will skip now.
@@walawala-fo7ds Player driven instead of NPC... Danny76334: "Hi stranger, could you help me get a cooling system I left on Vladnar 1? I'd make it worth your while." Yeah, not going to happen.
A player driven sandbox is exactly what I've been waiting for all my very long life. A universe where players shape the course of its history and not the developers.
If Squadron 42 was “feature complete” pretty much exactly one year ago, but we still won’t get it for another 12+ months, then what on earth kind of lead time are we going to have for Star Citizen 1.0?? And what they’ve announced is basically X4 Foundations but online. And all the single player content removed. And that came out 6 years ago, from a much smaller team for a lot less money.
Cyberpunk was "feature complete" in 2019 and it needed 3 delays and an extra 33 months of "polishing" (after release) until it was deemed fixed. And multiplayer for that was completely scrapped.
@@AQDuck Fair points, but that makes my own point more relevant. Taking their word for it, if going from "feature complete" to release is going to take 2 years for Sq42, then we are going to be a long long way from SC 1.0 if they are still adding 'features' at this point, and they still have to work on Sq42 in the meantime. Star Citizen is still many years away at this point.
They are not actually tiny, ArcCorp is 2000 km in diameter or 1:6 of the size of Earth. Try walking and driving that distance :) Also the big bigger the planet the more emptier it will be.
or you have a small screen or you have not played SC at all lol have you walked on a moon in SC? nope dont think you have lmao try to walk or drive or even fly around one lmao
This has probably been the most grounded CitizenCon so far. A more realistic view of what they are able to do with the tech available after the 4.0 Update. Meshing can get them far, but there are still boundaries for what they can do with it. While they didn't say "we fucked up in this and that area", they were admitting unrealistic expectations by replacing them with a new, more structured direction. Will these 1.0 plans be more realistic? Not even CIG will be able to say at this point. But some of the lofty promises from the 2010s are gone, in doubt or have been replaced by ideas from MMOs like EVE and Star Wars Galaxies - and I'm very thankful for that. For everyone following the project more closely is probably realizing that these changes are the result of a change in leadership that seems to be happening in the background. Chris Roberts isn't out of the picture and his input about the general direction will still be needed in the future, but Richard Tyrer is now the man pushing both projects (Squadron and Star Citizen) over the finish line. He knows what is available to him and also the problems CIG is facing after so many years of bad management under CR. But only (more) time can tell if he can release a successful singleplayer title and a 1.0 for an MMO that delivers us the dream of virtually living among the stars for many years to come...
NPC missions aren't disappearing. In fact, they are being expanded upon, with more bespoke mission givers involved in the Main Story, and more missions pulled off of the mobiglas and given to actual NPCs that you have to go interact with to get the mission and story behind it. Honestly, it sounds like you didn't actually watch the CitCon panels.
I literally spoke about careers, missions, guilds and more in this video. The entire middle section is dedicated to it. Honestly sounds like you didn't watch the entire video. 😁
I don't think they are excluding quests and stories for 1.0 release. They did have a presentation on the quest line for gaining citizenship. They also mentioned that as part of their "Genesis" system, the game will generate procedurally created quests along with the content on planets. A lot of the focus at this year's Citizencon was on Squadron 42 and what players will be able to create in game (crafting and base building). CIG tends to talk about what they are currently or have recently worked on. While no doubt crafting and base building will be a large part of the game, I still think quests and missions will still be a significant part of the game as well. They have been spending all this time working on characters and AI for Squadron 42. A lot of this tech from Squadron 42 can be brought over into Star Citizen. The thing holding things up is server meshing, which is the next major patch. Hopefully server meshing (4.0) goes well and they can move on to full dynamic server meshing and then start adding more content.
I feel like CIG may be gearing the sim only to preexisting points of interests on the map and not player POIs (bases, space stations, etc.) players can influence the sim behavior by depleting resources, or engaging in piracy, or enforcing piracy but the movement of the sim will largely be focused around the genesis POIs
For long term backers its all and more than we could have wished for, the depth, immersion, opportunity and support for all types of game play , and an excellent, clear explanation on the future of insurance and economy. CitizenCON showed CIG has not been sitting on their laurels, the amount of content they have already developed is staggering, it did emphasise one basic fact, no one outside an ORG needs, or could support a Pioneer. CC has no doubt given some backers a lot the digest, re-assess their hopes and dreams. CIG have said just a few months ago, NPC Crew are a ways off yet, its on the roadmap, but thankfully we wont have that nonsense in game for yrs. Good luck soloing a Polaris.
I really think that the reason you are seeing this shift towards player driven experiences is CIG realizing that populating a solar system, let alone a universe, with developer narrated stories and locations isn't possible in a feasible time scale. They tried it with Stanton and Pyro and it is taking far too long. That is why they are moving to more procedural systems for location generation (which will likely lead to the complaint that most places feel the same). Leveraging the player base not only for locations but possibly as mission creators allows them to increase player engagement while they could continue to build and enhance their Main Story and location based stories they also mentioned at CitizenCon. Basically, they are giving players the ability to create their own stories in the sandbox while CIG continues to slowly work on building more theme-park like experiences for those that want a more guided or externally narrated experience. SWG was largely a sandbox style MMO with theme-parks so it could work well and I have seen many compare Star Citizen to SWG as a sort of spiritual successor.
What they showed for procedural locations looked MILES better than starfield or elite, so I’m actually pretty confident that will be a bright spot for them. Plenty of other concerning things, but the Montreal team so far has nailed outposts and POI diversity and design
@@moontreecollective6718 The Montreal team has been hand crafting those outposts so the POI diversity is due to artists specifically making them look diverse. We have yet to see whether they can achieve such diversity when using procedural systems. There are already complaints that stations look mostly the same because they use all the same assets just in different configurations so I don't think it is a stretch to think that when they start to do procedural stuff they will have the same issue. As their catalog of assets grows it should be less of an issue but they likely will want to prevent future updates from completely changing the layout of things every time the catalog is updated.
@@Tsudico they’ve been handcrafting the individual assets too, and they literally showed exactly how they could be put together procedurally. Of course, there’s going to be some repeat of items, there has to be, but so far it seems much better designed than other comparable games
@@moontreecollective6718 Yes, and they use handcrafted individual assets in stations and caves too. That hasn't stopped people from complaining about how similar stations look or caves look. It will likely get worse before it can get better because until they have a huge asset catalog they will have limited amounts of things to place in locations so there will be repeats, especially if they vastly increase the amount of locations. It isn't necessarily a concern about the same building being at a location multiple times, but the same building being at 5 or 10 or more different outposts which starts to make everything seem the same. Don't get me wrong, reality has the same issue but it is noticeable in games because games for a long time have largely used handcrafted locations made to be unique from each other.
I was initially concerned that SC would turn into a PVP only game, but after watching CitCon presentation, I can see that it will cater to all player style. I also suspect the space station building will require a massive amount of resources, same for building a Bengal. I don't think there will be that many stations around and if there is, the man power required to field will discourage a lot of orgs on fielding them and they won't be everywhere either. and don't forget that there will also have an NPC driven campaign, so I suspect NPC's will still play a vital part in the sand-box universe.
@@simplysolutions3146 its the same game just on one you gotta roll play with your friends that you are minions for some big shot with money and the other one is a 20 minute long restricted turret sequence and quicktime events through forced playable corridors. As with all the people with their hopes up i aswell hope i'm wrong but i'll see to believe it if it ever comes out.
I'm happy that 1.0 appears within reach of where the game is now. I know that sounds wild to many given how notorious Star Citizen's development has been. I think they can release a functioning farmfest game where orgs can collectively farm for tens of thousands to build destroyable assets that then need farmed for. I think creating a living universe at the granular level of Star Citizen is unprecedented and would have been impossible in 1.0. i'm glad they made decisions that could create a functioning game that we have a reason to play consistently. Personally, I like the idea of a living universe that players can influence... And I think that given a wide variety of gameplay loops, players should be able to influence a lot in a system, especially when given a large enough player group. That kind of game philosophy is my dream space game. I hope that down the line Star Citizen goes down that path and one could see a way for them to do it in later major updates, but I'd play even if its permanently player driven.
@@adiedri38 I've experienced this problem a lot because of how they have clustered the mining claims near the space station. I have had success zooming in to the clump and panning around until I could find the station. Clicking on the station then allowed me to route to it. Another possibility is looking up the name of the station and then typing the name in the Search. VerseGuide can be a big help here because you can find the name of stations, such as HUR-L1 Green Glade or find out that CRU-L3 doesn't actually have a station.
@@adiedri38 yea, looks like you might not be entirely alone, on the Issue council I found #STARC-41245, which seems to be slightly related to your issue, as I see someone on there talking about only being able to find a mining claim in those locations.
"The community reaction" The majority works like an eco chamber : -12years ago, CR said LTI wasn't a big deal, since them, the majority think it was godlike .... it isnt. -community said there is 9npc for 1 players ... there will be NPC everwhere, but the 9:1 is a background simulation, to avoid economy hurdles created by players("to hold" rare ressources to make prices skyrocket(like it happened in EvE online) -yeah, all players will not be able to have a ground base in unlawfull systems, what a surprise. -small group of players will not be able to have a player space station, another surprise. -solo players can't do pve instancied raid/incursion, a surprise... again. -safe systems will not be 100% safe, comms array still there... so much surprises ! Love you
I just don't trust players to proved me the story I'd be looking for, especially as I never play online against others. This is why the method that Frontier Dev use is the right balance. Introduce new scenarios to help keep it fresh for the players. It's just a shame that E:D has become another online multiplayer with virtual currency, the cancer of modern gaming.
As someone who follows SC closely and plays fairly regularly, very little here was surprising or unexpected, just formalizing what was expected. I also wouldn't be surprised if the 'main story' is still larger than anything that would have shipped if they stuck to the original kickstarter goals. Everything's just bigger. Also just like other MMO's I'm sure there will be solo friendly orgs so I'm not sure what the concern is there. Just be solo together, like any other MMO lol. Also don't forget there is a lot of NPC stuff still planned for 1.0, the part about talking with people instead of just the mobi-glass. It'll likely be somehow connected with guilds though to keep things tight.
Its a good point that its unknown how the balance will be between players enjoying resources gathering and crafting vs those who need to output of crafting. That being said, I do believe that CIG will consider this, so it becomes a enjoyable experience for all. Personally, I am planning to go down the Industry path of resources exploration, gathering and some crafting. I will earn credits by selling what I craft.
Sounds like they've got a lot planed for 1.0, but a lot of things could change in the next 30 years so I guess we won't know till it gets here.
I sometimes wonder if we will have ww3 and a economic or environmental collapse before star citizen will be done.
why 30 years? 1.0 is not thaat far away. Not anymore.
@@deineMutter9019 How's Lala-land this time of year?
@@GamingNostalgiaRemastered he might have a point, even though it probably is not the one he wants to make. To me it sounds more and more like cig is planning to call it a day at some point in the next year's and release 1.0 no matter how finished it is at that point. The writing is on the wall. They cut features left and right, manage expectations with what is going to be in 1.0 and that is less and less by the month.
@@deineMutter9019 Did you hear that from the same people that told you to "answer the call" for SQ 42 back in 2016?
As a solo non PVP gamer (and I suspect there are a lot more of us in the player base than most people think) I don't normally comment/give feedback on games (like most solo players from my experience).
SC has the potential to be my main game with one main issue that stopped me playing it during alpha (even though I really enjoyed most of the game). I'd love to see if other solo players feel the same way (no need to reply as I know we don't normally like to talk to others, just like the post if you are in this group) or just add a comment on what would stop you playing (not just being annoyed at) SC when it release 1.0
For me the quickest thing to stop me playing a game is when a ganker can retard my progress (ie blowing up my ship meaning I have to re-kit out the modules costing lots of money etc).
Please give me a PVP flag (or some other thing) that stops me being attacked by other players.
This could reduce rewards (ie 5% less for mining when it is on etc) or stop certain areas/missions being available, I would happily be limited to non PVP activities/areas. If there is an area where NPC's do this then that is fine (it was my mistake for going there and I can avoid that in future or take a basic ship with no modules and no gear etc)
I've not played in over a year, last time, just after the reset, I had just got enough cash to outfit a mining ship and got ganked on my first run. I couldn't afford to replace the modules so went back to basic mining and got ganked again by a different player in a different system.
Logged off and played some other games (that don't allow other players actions to degrade my own progress) and not played since (although I might jump in again before 1.0 but the progress resets put me off playing seriously so might wait till, 1.0 comes out , if I'm still alive by then of course :P)
If I still get ganked in 1.0 I will most likely end up playing something else (Like a lot of people I have talked to in games who also don't normally bother complaining on forums and just go play something else).
The 'Active posting' gamers will say go play something else if you don't like it (and I will happily do so), but they don't seem to realise that a lot of money (not as much as the big backers) and the feeling of an 'alive' player base comes from the 'working 9-5' solo players (look at them as IRL NPC's I guess).
Without them it could turn out like another Elite where you get less and less people in the game (although a lot of this is down to the bad implementation of the PVP flag system). This means an emptier game feeling and less money for the devs to produce the content.
It also takes longer for the passive gamer to achieve stuff in game, this actually means that anything gained has a higher value to them and makes them more likely to keep playing, subsequently loss of this stuff through a ganker also has a bigger effect on the enjoyment of the game. These solo's will most likely end up finding people they enjoy playing with and maybe becoming less of a solo player.
I believe this is one reason why WOW managed to get and maintain their number of players in the early years (not so much today). Solo players came, kept playing because they were catered for and eventually made friends and joined guilds and became group players/raiders.
Hardly anyone starts a new game without being a solo player (unless you already have a guild in another game moving to the new one). So keeping the solo players happy should be a top priority if you want a game to continue growing as these people are the players that will eventually join the guilds and become invested in the game. You just need them to stay in the game long enough to meet other players they enjoy playing with (even if that is not what they intended to do, ie they intended to just play solo) and then they will experience the real reasons why MMO's became so popular with dedicated players, they are dedicated to their friends in the guild as much as the game itself.
To me SC is looking more and more like Foxhole, which is not a good thing.
That game has the whole production area for both factions plagued by guilds, elitism and toxicity. Everywhere you go is signs telling people to stay away, "private property", "don't steal our stuff". I once tried to build something to help finishing a production chain, and next day I found a sign saying "dismantle this as it's our territory".
And when you manage to somehow craft something on your own to send to the frontlines, after spending literal hours crafting it? It's all gone in seconds thanks to "partisans" (No. They're griefers. A*****es who find funny to ruin people's efforts. Period.) camping in map borders, to blow up your vehicle.
Star citizen is looking more and more like that. And despite being a backer, I'm really despising the direction it is taking. This game will be a grief-fest.
Yeah I'm a solo player myself and I see that solo play is getting slowly pushed away from the game. Hell, they just said yesterday that NPC crews is going to be a post 1.0 launch. So yeah, by the time 1.0 comes out and I'm thinking in 2030s, they will change their stance on NPC crew and probably get rid of it all together.
@@madmaveric sorry it’s the wrong game for you. CIG and Chris personally have said more than once that this is a game where everyone will have to PVP. With 100 person servers and small pre-release player base it was totally possible for people to avoid pvp. But that is not their plan. Much like eve, pvp is unavoidable - once game is closer to vision. Solo or private group mode in Elite is for players like you but no such thing in SC. BTW the Elite player base has grow a lot in the last year so you may not have been on since odyssey if you think it’s shrinking.
one of my favorite thing when I want to enjoy a cool flight model is to boot elite dangerous in Solo/Mobius session, put a podcast on (galaxy radio I call it, eh) and enjoy the ship and flying around 🙂
@@AtlasRandGaming So what is the point of lawless or high security systems? non pvp pilots will stay in high sec sectors where pvp should be extremely risky
this always boils down to pvp players want a target rich environment and pve players want to be left alone this circle cannot be squared
pvp players will be forced into high security systems as that is where the majority of players will be
"As it approaches full release" - Gave me a good laugh that.
why?
It's always approaching full release. 😁
@@sdrkrmit’s been approaching release for years
@@sdrkrm if you really need to ask at this stage ...
Release date: 2XXX + X
Endgame space stations are for big Orgs, not classic solo player or even little orgs.
true same like in eve just like big end game ships are in SC like the Orion etc
Yup, so orgs like test get to control Pyro which you need to travel through to get to nyx and castra
Considering that the game has entirely catered to solo experiences for the past 10 years, this was a breath of fresh air for many.
So we end up with countless player run stations that then become meaningless?
They’re also for alliances of several small orgs.
CIG did in fact promise NPC assistance with multiplayer ships. I was 37 years old when I backed, 49 now. I am running out of time to play.
you still have like 40 more years (counting on averages), more if you're fit and live a sane life out of drugs, smoke and excess of alcohol, surely you will be able to play 1.0.
@@unlimitedslash ...let's not do this.
@@unlimitedslash But how sain it is to wait decades for a game ? ^^
No they forecasted, they predicted, but as CIG often say, ''they do not promise''. CIG have said just 3 months ago, its on the roadmap, yet a ways off yet, no one wants NPC Crew, no one wants a Starfield.
@@davewills6121 No one wants NPC Crew really? I rather think that no one wants to end up in the co-pilot seat of a scorpius ^^
I am 38 now and Honestly I started to think that I will rather experience visiting space myself than getting all promised content in my lifetime XD
that's still the case since everything here is still only about 10% of what was initially promised.
I'm 57 I feel your pain ... lol
It's funny. 12 years later and many players do not even remember what was promised. Their current vision of 1.0 is a fraction of what they wanted to create. Even if you ignore the 100 systems they promised.
Treat it like trucking simulator. Get off shift on your generation ship, log into starcitizen and take out your exploration ship
I was about 38 when I first heard about this title.
The problem is Star Citizen has always been that it’s a game that exists predominately in the imagination of backers and developers alike. Some of it was (and will) likely never be possible. Some of it would never realistically work in a MMO. It had to evolve, and in doing so it would naturally leave some backers expectations wanting. But at the end of the day, they needed to fix the goalposts for 1.0. It’s also clear to me that everything they showed will require modification along the way, so there’s no reason to feel like the sky is falling. We should also remember that CIG hasn’t delivered on time or as advertised… ever… so no reason to think this will be exactely like they showed anyway! 😅
I think that's a fair summary.
Yeah but base building? Survival?
@@saintjames1995 It has always had survival in the PU, which is why it has food and drink, and why so many exploration ships have showers and toilets and why habs have shower gel on display (but not for sale yet). Plus, base building only makes sense for people who do not have exploration ships.
@@saintjames1995 what’s wrong with either of those things? I always assumed crafting and base building were natural extensions of resource gathering gameplay loops (even if not explicitly stated as goal until last year). And the survival aspects of SC are greatly exaggerated and could be assumed to be present in a universe where you are a person and not a ship.
@@Billy-bc8pk maybe so but this game has no vision or soul. They only hop on what's trending
I remember several years ago when I said there would never be 100 systems at launch when it's taken them years to make just two some deranged fanboy told me I had no idea what I was talking about, because it would just be so fast to build them now the tools had been made. Uh huh.
Back when the 100 star systems were talked about being added the game was in its original idea being a modernized freelancer. When you couldn't land anywhere just the main landing zone and it was done through a cutscene. I think they even talk about this in the 1.0 segment of this years citcon. There is no realistic way of them getting that many systems out for 1.0 or maybe at all
The cult will come up with anything to defend it, even in the face of reality. Once again, all they've done is move the goalposts and made more empty promises and plans.
@@uhavekrabs A lot of us old fuddy-duddies who backed it in those days just wanted that, and in many ways still just want that. It's no longer remotely the game I backed, and realistically never will be.
Yeah, people were desperately clinging to the idea that SC was always one magical piece of "tech" away from development speed increasing 100x over.
@@JohnMichaelson I think many games have proven that 100 systems for the sake of 100 systems is kinda a dumb metric to chase. NMS and ED have essentially infinite systems and other than for some segment of the player base it doesn’t actually enrich gameplay. Those games are also designed with “inch deep, mile wide” in mind. SC kicked that idea with seamless transitions and fully explorable planets and moons, anyone who thought otherwise was just foolish. A moon in Star citizen today is more area for gameplay than entire systems as envisioned in the kickstarter. CIG’s explanation of why they are aiming for 5 systems at launch vs 100 at this years citizen con is perfectly logical as well.
I bought a new computer in 2016 cause I wanted to play Star Citizen.
I've been waiting 8 years, shorter than some people but it was interesting to see so many games come out during that time while they still talking about random things like mattress and fluid physics. They are building a house without putting in the foundation.
I planned to upgrade my graphics card when SC released. I was eyeing up a 1080ti 😄
@@terryd8692 Better look for those RX 6900XT, dropping hard in the used market right now.
Considering many of the systems are being ported over from Squadron 42 to Star Citizen... FINALLY... they've built the house but now they have to move everything in (porting mechanics from SQ42 to SC) before we all die of old age
@@terryd8692 You should eye the 10080ti
think im on the 3rd computer now since the kickstarter haha
I. Do. Not. Want. EvE. I originally backed Star Citizen back in 2012 because it WASN'T EvE. It was a new take on the multiplayer of Chris Roberts' previous game Freelancer. The idea of having an open space world you can have adventures in with your friends was one that was, and still is, fresh. Far too many space games out there tend to gravitate towards turning into these sprawling empire sims (looking at you, X4) and drift away from that smaller idea. I just want to be Han Solo and take MY ship on space adventures. Star Citizen promised to be that. But as time goes on, it's apparent that, "Screw it, just let guilds run everything," is much easier to do for the gameplay backend than a predominantly NPC-driven world that again as a Kickstarter reminder, had promised modding and private servers.
I fear Star Citizen is just going to be EvE with mega guilds running everything. And that the gameplay, and developer focus, will be on catering to that.
Exactly, I hate seeing people reference eve for mechanics they want to see in sc. Eve already exists to play if they want it.
Took the words right out of my mouth. I don't want to see another game with mega clans that essentially block you from everything fun you want to do unless you do it for them as a mindless drone taking on the most menial and repetitive aspects the higher ranks don't want. We have games like that, such as EvE or any public ARK servers.
Just because an org can have a space station doesnt mean you can bop around in a cutter solo, does it. Grow up and stop catastrophising over none issues.
I'll judge in 2068, when the public beta launches.
Hoooowee. That's optimistic.
Very original broski, it'll surely take them a million years to make 5 star systems
@@Namaka420 you're right, I'm being way too optimistic.
but look closely tho, the 3 new star systems that launch with 1.0 has less poi combined than Staton along, I guess its doable, just with minimum effort
@@jasonz2736 With minimum effort, yes. But you have to account for when Chris Roberts decides to create a new font for the in-game personalized mugs and stuff like that. 😁
I didn't get the same sense that you did, that they are shifting to a mostly player driven experience. They spent a lot of time talking about the ORG stuff because a lot of what they had was new. They talked about the stations as an end game goal but I don't see that as taking away from the living universe. They did also say that we are going to be getting more NPC driven missions along with the Mobiglass missions, requiring us to meet actual NPCs to get the jobs. Similar to Twitch and Echart.
I get that they didn't talk about Quanta and the living universe this time around but there were no statements saying they were leaving those by the wayside as well. They have already been putting out multiple events where we are reacting to what is happening in the universe around us. I've seen no signs that they are leaving that behind, see the upcoming "Save Stanton" mission.
I just don't see that what you expected originally is not still there, they just didn't talk about it in as great of detail as there was more new information to get to us. I guess I've always seen SC as a sandbox game where I will live but not necessarily be able to influence in great amounts. I don't see that as having changed with what they announced for 1.0. It just seems that they've defined more of what I can expect to do and progress through.
Oh they could put out a Hundred systems in a week , you can do that with procedural tech however it would be NO Mans SKY/StarField/Elite Dangerous empty husks of planets. Nobody wants that I would have been happy with 10 systems but I'll take 5 Dense ones at first, and then they will Add more systems later a couple every year to keep the cash flowing.
they talked breifly about economy and say that their plans havent changed about it so quanta and living economy is still onboard. All we saw at this CC will be ADD to everything else
I'm not really surprised it is leaning more towards survival Base building type of gameplay. Because we've had for a long time, the need for players to eat and drink to live.
It's looking like Star Wars Galaxies with a survival mechanic
Rust in space. A very specific player plays those games. Casual players will drop off quickly.
The thing is it's not JUST that. In true SC fashion that whole aspect of the game's totally optional basically. This seems to be what a lot of people are missing.
@@CitizenScott I don't understand this too, it's called endgame for a reason..
Dual Universe without the ship building.
@@DeadBaron What do u mean without ship building? Like custom ones?
Perhaps it was a mistake for CIP to not clearly define the difference between thier base building system and the 1.0 presentation as it seem like, for Ant at least, they were absorbed as the same thing. Base building is not REPLACING anything, its just another system. They went out of thier way to announce NPC quests are going to be the main way players progress instead of the mobiglass system. It still sounds like we are just people in a living breathing universe. I don't think a solo player building a space station is very realistic.
Yeah i doubt as a solo ill get a space station, but it seems like building a small base is pretty reasonable.
This is also my take as well. I don't think anything shown at CitCon is coming at the expense of their original vision (mostly). It's still my understanding that players will be the minority and NPCs will still outnumber us. Just look at the Starchitect panel. They talked about having thousands of NPC POIs generated on planets. I imagine that player bases will just fill the spaces in between and likely won't grow to those numbers on a single planet. But I agree that dedicating that much time to end-game org stuff in the 1.0 panel may have skewed some viewers' expectations.
@@VLK_StaticI am actually not to sure. Numbers do not add up. It you look at the amount of players, even if everyone builds only a small base, that's 6 digits of bases between around 20 planets and let's say 80 moons. That sounds pretty crowded to me
@@TimothySnowman I hope so, economics at Elite style would be more realistic, than on EvE way. We are just few in universe, on numbers. There could still be perks to built assets.
@@dj_dojo I mean there are 7 Billion people on earth, and it doesn't feel too crowded. 100,000 player distributed between 100 planets and moons sounds like enough space.
I started backing this game in my mid to late 30s, I am 50 now, by the time this game is "finished" I will be 60. The truth is, and I said this almost a decade ago, this game will never see completion, it will forever be an alpha, forever be under construction and forever be waiting to be "finished" if they can somehow manage to keep players funding it for another 10 years.
I thought it was still in Beta... I'm 48, so I understand completely.
Playing Star Citizen is my retirement plan.
@@mrpositronia Nope. It's going whiff right passed beta straight into 1.0......someday™
It will never be done. Because that's how games work. They will always need more money to keep the lights on. Wow doesn't work as a charity. But the game will release and stop being an alpha. I'm betting 2028. I was in my late 20s when I pledged and I'm over 40 now and I'm sure it will happen a few years from now. Development has been speeding up a lot last few years.
I'm assuming that 1.0 will likely not have anywhere near the amount of bugs the current build, and 4.0 have. People think 1.0 is something that will never happen, but in reality they been talking about Pyro being built for years, and now it's in evocati people still think there will be no progress. 1.0 is the next mile stone since 4.0 it's almost ready.
Your kids will have grown up and be flying to work in their hover cars by the time this fully releases 😁
Sir, you have a very optimistic view on the nearby future of our earthly world.
In 1970 that's how we envisaged 2000
Ironic. This game spent 14 years in development Hell with promises of being everything _Elite Dangerous_ wasn't, and turns out to basically be _Elite Dangerous_ 1.5 but with five star systems instead of an entire galaxy. But hey, ship interiors.
Its 5 systems ON Release not forever, there another 3 systems just in Sq 42 and a 6th system announced at CitCon Castra, not to mention the Banu, Xi'an Vanduul and Kerthak systems. They are allowing us to Build our own ships so adding systems will be the only way to expand and make more money.
@@AlbertoMartinez765 14 years lol.
@@AlbertoMartinez765 Dude that is just cope. They are back tracking on stuff now as they are out of cash. If they don't release something Chris will get sued into oblivion. Its gone from living breaking universe space sim to a survival space game.
And yet so many ED players would give anything for SC like spaceship interiors. While whole galaxy sounds “amazing” it’s very baren and empty. I would rather have 5 highly detailed planets at launch… However with this time of development I would expect to visit space myself sooner than SC launches.
@@blackfoxstudioX 14 years lol.
I've literally met a new relationship partner, got married, had 2 children, and put them through junior high before the 1.0 release, and the original promises made are so far blasted out into space it's really not the same game as far as I'm concerned. I want *nothing to do* with any Eve Online nonsense game mechanics, and it shouldn't have taken 13 years to figure this out.
if they wanted detailed rpg elements, they should've started with a web UI game so I can play this shit remotely, might as well if it takes an hour to get ready to fly out of your hanger with all your gear loaded
I have always thought it was going to be first person eve with more sim elements, but I was playing eve at the time it was first announced - it feels like station building is a natural end game, like I never interacted with corps or zero sec when I played eve and still enjoyed it
EDIT: After watching the full video, I understand more what others were expecting - I guess I enjoy sandbox elements more so it doesn't bother me, but if you expected (and promised, but I didn't follow SC for many years so I don't know what promises they made) a lot of handcrafted missions then I get why this would be upsetting
i dont think you understand how long games take to produce. diablo 3 took 11 years from start to finish. gta 6 has been in development since about 2015. metroid dread took 16 years. pyschonaughts also took 15-16 years. the game for the content is trying to provide is within reason.
@@klikk99 if any future game is ANYTHING like Eve Online, which I began playing in 2005, I wouldnt touch it. Eve Online is a scam, it is a p2w "loss simulator", it rewards the *worst* sorts of people, and it reflects the dog-eat-dog fantasies of libertarians and wealthy people. Its disgusting, it tricks people into investing tons of time and money.
Its a good thing I invested less than $100 in SC back in 2011. I would feel like an idiot if I had spent more...
@@metalrain300these people aren't going to listen to sense because they just don't get it, we live in a time where people want tomorrows game yesterday.
It's all the internet pron I reckon
As someone with very little stake in the game (a gifted key from years and years ago), I think this company bit off more than they can chew. Making a first impression is important. What I've gotten from them is they think they can just tease features and take in money, and do the entire development backwards. Conventions, features, sizzle reels, celebrity actors, but no full release after over a decade. People are rightly perturbed by their approach because it's atypical of a development cycle for even the biggest games releasing today. I'm sure with three quarters of a billion in funding they can both develop and create production value through their conventions and tech spotlights, but it rubs me the wrong way. I just see more promised features beautifully rendered in advance of a show, and not a realized product with said features in it. There's a reason people are able to contain excitement for a game like GTA 6, because it has the prestige and proven success of its franchise to support it. This is a company putting out their first product and it feels like they're building their 20th after decades of envelope-pushing success. I just don't understand it. All I can say is I feel for the people who feel duped, and I hope the ones who have given and continue to give money get the product they're promised, in a timely manner consistent with their evolving expectations.
@@YouLikeBosch over a decade development without release it not too rare for big gaming projects, but I still have to agree. Doing the crowd funding way, or backwards as you call it, created mayor problems. Promising stuff they might or might not be able to pull off to draw in funds became their marketing model. This includes creating and selling ships for game loops that are far from done or final. This has become some sort of death spiral for the game development progression.
Problem is that Chris had issues releasing games in the past as well. Freelancer got delayed and delayed cause he always wanted to keep adding stuff. That is great right? Someone with passion and want to have all these amazing things in a game. Yeah, but making those things take time and then new technology arrives so he wants that included, and then he wants that and then and then. Freelancer went the same direction. Their first publisher was giving him time, but Microsoft bought that publisher and they had enough of it and kicked him off the project and let another team finish the game cause there was no end to the development if they let him create the game. Now he has no publisher, there is no one telling him "Dude, release the freaking game already! It's been long enough now!".
Yes making games can take a long time, especially ambitious open world/galaxy ones. Problem is, most games that took so long to make were never revealed till they were in a much further state of development so gamers only had to wait 2 or so years. They also didn't do early access so no one bought into it when they were 20something and now being 40something and still don't have the game they bought into. Don't forget, the original release date was set for 2014. Yeah I rather have a proper working game with enough content, but at this point I really begin to believe the scam theories, seeing how much money they make with the pledge store and have ships on "in stock" for digital products what do you mean "in stock", that is just a scummy tactic to create FOMO and have people rush to buy it, and now the news of the pledge store being a thing that will be there in the final game, like WTF, pay to win to the extreme?
There is higher chance that we will be able to commercially visit space IN PERSON within our lifetime than this game getting released with 100% of the promised content.
If I had a dollar for every time someone made this comment, I could build my own Star Citizen (in 20 years)
Squadron404 is 2 more years guys!!! Whooo hooo just like it has been 2 years away for the past 10 years! Lol
Exactly. It's 6 at minimum I'm thinking closer to 10
This is a troll post. Not saying anything is incorrect, they did say 2026. But that's for Squadron 42. He's talking about SC here. Not SQ42. Yet you come in here yelling about SQ42. Why? It wasn't the topic. Tired of hearing people like you just trying to make a ruckus for the sake of it. You want to talk about that issue maybe go find a video taking about that, make a spectrum post, or even make your own video. Just tired of hearing complaining especially when it has nothing to do with the video.
@@mandalore41 I'd say it's closer to Star Citizen itself, in that it'll never release at 1.0. SQ42 was supposedly 'feature complete' last year and only needed polish. Yeah right. Now it's at least two more years, which given how all their other dates are failures is highly unlikely.
@@Elwaves2925 it's so demoralizing to hear them say a date, then come out with a bedsheets type video talking about features that don't seem to be critical to progressing toward that feature complete date. I'm more apathetic at this point. If it happens, great, if not, oh well.
@@csdigitaldesigncult member 🫵
CIG has stated that the ratio between NPCs and players will be about 90% NPCs to 10% players. That is still the plan. Players will be able to influence some things yes, but the game surely won't be dominated by them, especially in the more populated systems. Maybe in the more empty systems or planets players will be able to stablish themselves and be more numerous than npcs in that specific location, but that's it. You will be able to play solo or with others, across several career options. On most types of jobs you likely won't be as effective solo compared to a full team, but the option will be there.
But org end game IS side content. As a solo player you can have a career in whatever you want. You can be an assassin for a crime organization or a bounter hunter, amongts many other jobs, and build a cabin in the redwoods. What's the issue? You can even end up going to such a station to purchase stuffs, or a contract for one org. Its not the core focus of star citizen, they spent 45 mins before talking about the loop for players BEFORE getting to org end games.
So excited to get bullied and extorted by massive clans every time I log in!! Thank you Star Citizen! Switching to the Eve route after 12 years will DEFINITELY not alienate thousands of solo players!
Welp, guess SC is not a game for people like me who wants to play on my own or with 1-2 friends, any longer.
Clan-focused games have some of the most toxic tryhards of the entire gaming market. "Nice" to see that we're back to this kind of game again.
I'll go back playing Avorion I suppose...
the ones throwing money at them are the whales in these big orgs buying 20 copies of every insanely expensive ship. it makes sense that CIG will start catering more and more to these kinds of players because those are the ones paying the bills. i suspect development will shift more and more to them and less about solo players, sadly.
"Community Driven Content" just means that a small fraction of the player base will be making all the decisions and having all the fun while regular players, who can't dedicate 10 hours a day to a game, will have no impact and no story content to enjoy.
we have a time traveler here
Somebody didn't actually watch a single panel from the actual CitCon and it shows.
I mean they did talk about how they will now have a main story as well as smaller planet stories in the game. I admit i wish they explained more of it. But it does seem like they want to have stories and stuff for what you are doing.
@Hedgehobbit out here demonstrating with confidence and swagger how little he's actually paid attention. 😂😂😂😂
@@DustinHarms Why would he waste his time? Why would anyone after a decade of delays, broken promises, feature creep and predatory cash shop practices? Why does this "game" even have fans still? It's absolutely bonkers.
I was actually just talking about this with my wife, and I feel like part of this is that the only part of the game they have right now are a set of systems on the border of the UEE. Everything they showed during their 1.0 presentation looks like exactly what I'd expect from a game of this kind out on the frontier of settled space, but the issue is right now that's all there is.
Seeing Terra on that list is good. They're going to need to lean hard on having those more central and populated worlds feel like that living and breathing universe as they'd talked about before if they want to give real variety to all this. I love the idea of a fully player-driven sandbox but only out in places where it makes sense, and they're saying that their "Launch" product is only going to include that one area, so the solo players who want an NPC populated world to live in and move around in are just going to have to wait. Which doesn't seem great.
For context my wife has a LOT of hours sunk into Oblivion, so the Subsumption AI system really caught her interest, and obviously she's far from alone. I REALLY hope this is just them trying to get game loops together and have something for players to do while they work on other elements, and not a pivot like some people are afraid of.
I’m a solo player (and early backer) who was very interested into exploration gameplay. And with just 5 systems, exploration is going to be non-existent. Simply. I’m personally very very disappointed with the turn the game is taking.
That's 5 systems at launch, they said in the presentation they would continue to add systems over time. Not that it's a good thing, but at least it's something.
They literally showed NPCs outposts moving and cave formations
5 systems of planets and moons
unless your idea of exploration means jumping into a system and looking at its star for a few seconds then you will likely have tons of places to explore, map, loot, etc
even at 100 systems, the chances for finding something someone else hasn't already found is basically zero.
same
@@ioritenshi the idea of exploration was captured by Chris Roberts and it was not scanning on the same places to get base building materials. exploration is dead
I think the problem with it being so sandbox survival focused is that a lot of Star Citizen players are of the older crowd. We don't have time to dedicate to these kinds of games to get anywhere with them.
Correct, I play Eve-online as an older player, I don't have the time to put to it and so no point joining a corp. I just play around the edges, solo mining, etc.
We weren't quite so 'older' when we started... Maybe both EVE and Star Citizen will be good retirement activities? However, I will likely be worm food before 1.0 comes out.
@@Miner-dyne I know, right? The "older crowd" now is the same crowd that got the kickstarter off the ground in the first place. We've seen dozens of other products rise, flail and flop with lofty ambitions, CIG isn't somehow immune to poor development management. Something something wisdom and age. Well anyway, at least I'll have something to play in my retirement home.
Not only Solo players will be at a disadvantage but also, small ORGS. There are massive orgs with thousands of players. Each one of those players will also be able to settle personal bases but also benefit from being part of massive orgs. Their land claims will not count towards their Orgs claims and as there seems to be no claim limitations, then, the very large ORGS might very well own the Solar systems where Resources are more valuable, but also, all of their members will also be able to have claims and use them for extra input for their orgs... and all of this in lawful systems.
So basicly, extra large orgs will have tentacles everywhere and that's a massive disadvantage versus small orgs.
Lastly, I don't see why massive orgs would allow solo players or small orgs to settle down anywhere in the systems they own. They will have thousands of Orgs members do the tasks they need to gather all resources, 24/7.
Good luck to anyone that wants a small plot of land try to settle a base there without the massive Orgs permission (Probably under taxes).
I glad they've reigned in the feature creep, but the move from solo play has killed it for me. I want a game I can dip into for an hour or two.
I used to be competitive in Eve, and that was practically a 2nd job.
lol, they actually added feature creep like space station building and Carrier 3d printing.
This complete change from the game that we were sold on feels like the devs realized they NEED to release a "final product" sooner rather than later, and to do that, they have to simply or remove some of their more lofty goals. Going from Living Universe to Sandbox feels like a way for them to make it maybe simpler for them, with not having to develop as much on the AI systems for resources, trade, etc. 5 systems instead of 100 feels like a time saver as well, without going the everything is procedurally generated route, leaving everything feeling like a reskin, and instead just doing 5 systems.
Obviously not having AI crew in the final product is an obvious time saver, that would be complicated and very time consuming. But I still feel like they focus way too much on cooperative systems. To the point where the only people who *really* play the game are streamers and video makers who have a horde of fans to pull from, and every normal person just wont be able do anything that matters.
I dont know if I like this. I understand them reducing the scope of the game to get a "final product", and then hopefully continue to develop the game to what they promised over time. That probably is a smart move, honestly, if this means it takes them 3 more years instead of 6 more. But I don't really like the shift to "everything is player driven, not a living universe that you are a part of". I honestly think they're going to make it too hardcore, and that it will fail, no matter how good it actually is, because hardcore games like that typically don't do well over the long run.
They will definitely keep developing after 1.0, but the game really need a 1.0 release sooner than later, for both CIG and the backers.
totally. it's a bust unless you're into org drama
CIG announced on spectrum 6 hours ago that AI blades will be in 1.0.
@@fsqabr AI Blades, from my recollection, are more for turrets/systems, not things like cargo and damage control, things that are more of an interactive process within a ship, rather than done through a screen/terminal, which would be more the realm of AI Crew. The blades would help, like the head-theory we have of them, but you still need crew as well, which for 95% of people (if they're being honest), is why we need AI Crew, as well
@@hansyolo8277 They did mention they will be able to handle a bunch of stuff that crew would be able to do, just maybe slightly more limited in ability. which i kind of see what they are going for. i will hold my opinion till i see it in action.
so CIG realised they really cant make star citizen the game it was meant to be and just abandon the whole thing for players to "make their own content" lmao. thats not why people wanna play space games. people play space games to experience space, something that is vastly unknown... unlike social relationships, which are played out.
You got it !!! They wont be able to deliver in the next 5 years the dream we all funded. So on release they need something to show for, so all the work to make a living universe is on the players.. aitn that a spit in face.
"Sorry folks, I know u wanted a freelancer story like PU, but because Chris Roberts mismanged our funds, re hashed projects countless times, feature creep this game into oblivion and gave most funding to SQ42, well we dont have anything of real playable substance to show for. Sooo we have created a new vision for the game, craft, build and survive. Its your job now, make it a story out of it, use your imagination. Build our world for us.. the world we failed to deliever. At least now we have an excuse for a release. Have fun..
- This is the BS we get.
At the end of the day, my problem with SC remains. I want a space game like this where I can hop on for an hour a day and maybe play 3 or 4 hours on the weekends with friends. In one hour in Elite, I can get into my ship, play, and that’s that. I feel that in SC, you have to go through a bunch of extra steps to do a similar amount of things, while also being mindful of the kind of warranty I have, where I leave my ship so it doesn’t get stolen, checking my base, collecting materials, and keeping my character alive, fed, and hydrated, etc. I don’t see myself enjoying it in the long run without it feeling like a job.
That's because star citizen is more of a simulator
then you need to look for another game. trying to make something into what you want is frustrating because it is what it is not what one player wants
I don't think Star Citizen ever was intended to be what you are hoping for unfortunately. While I do agree that I'd love something like that as well, I think expecting that from Star Citizen is setting yourself up for disappointment. I don't personally know how I feel. I want to try it out, but I think I'm not dedicated enough to stick around to experience the majority of the game aspects.
@@ioritenshi Exactly. This goes for any game. Don't set your own expectations based on your desires, but instead based on what the developers are intending to do with the project. If you go into FFXIV and hate story and love gear and skill-customization, then you don't install FFXIV. You go play WoW or something else instead. If you love super complex systems and steep learning curves and feeling like you always have more to learn, you don't play Diablo 4, you play Path of Exile and vice versa.
Star Citizen has never, to my understanding, been anything but a player driven narrative - at least not primarily. I do hope they can expand on that little by little but I was never expecting that from its first release based on everything else they have displayed so far. This does not surprise me whatsoever, even if it's not suitable for me.
Even the warping between star systems was a deal breaker to me. I want to point my ship at a star like in Elite or No Man's Sky and just warp, not play a minigame where I risk damage.
I don’t play Star Citizen, but I was considering it until now. I hate sand box games. The rich dudes rule them, and solo players get screwed. I don’t want to see another Eve Online game. If I wanted that style, then I would just play Eve Online which is already available. This new version of Star Citizen won’t be ready for another five years, so I will just watch countless reviews of frustrated players who are forced to use a buggy game that is incomplete until then. But thanks for what was a great summary of the new direction and its goals.
I thought it was going this way many years ago and knew the online was going to suck for solo players. It's for groups and griefers.
Over a decade promising a new Freelancer game we could "enjoy solo" and still no S42 in our hands.
This game was always meant to be a giant MMO sandbox. Since day one of its inception. How did you not know that?
I am a solo player, and while I am of course a little bummed NPC crew wont make launch, it wouldn't be so much different than right now, if anything it might be slightly better if ai blades can automate a little bit of stuff for me. SC never seemed to me like it was trying to be space WoW, it has a setting, lore, and NPC driven content of course, but it was always sandbox-y. Even if it did have tons of story content and all hand crafted missions and stuff i wouldn't play them, and i play every game this way. I just log in, and go get in some kind of trouble, or go explore someplace i haven't been, or go build something; I have little adventures, and entirely on my own terms, on my own time. For me, and I would think any other folks who once loved EVE or Elite, this direction for SC is just fine.
CIG announced on spectrum 6 hours ago that AI blades will be in 1.0.
Rich Tyrer announced that the solo player experience is part of their 1.0 vision. AI Blades will be in first, NPC players later.
Star Citizen illustrates the level of demand for open world space game. You think by now other developers would capitalize on that.
marketing research says we are niche interest - 700 million revenue in 12 years is peanuts. no one will do a game like that.
@@dero985 interesting. I'm surprised to see millions raised for star citizen each year. Sometimes I wonder about marketing companies and their proficiency. Until then X4 Foundations will do
The difference is that SC is crowdfunded, unlike other companies and their games, where the money comes from private investors where the absolute basic need is to get benefits, and therefore they will never invest in dubious proposals, if you where to bring the idea of a space sim right now, to any board of investors for a next project AT ANY company you would be thrown out the window like the meme.
SC is possible because the team only answers to the the numbers they have to work provided by the community, if they had to answer to a board of directors and investors we might have seen the racing stuff as a standalone game, and the same goes for any other thing like salvaging, or mining.
@@unlimitedslash You're talking like a salesperson. Star Citizen earning over $700m on its Beta just smells like a scam to me. The very fact that they haven't approached publishers just screams that they aren't looking to set any hard targets. It's turned out to be a carrot on the end of a stick for the fans.
@@mrpositronia You don't need a publisher to make a game, in fact, many indies get screwed over due to draconian publisher contracts.
Heck i've seen some contracts for publishing that literally NEGATE any income to the studio until the publisher has gotten it's share, and even after that they keep sucking 40+% of the income.
People throw shit at steam for the 30%, but having seen the shit i've seen, let me tell you, Steam IS FUCKING CHEAP accounting for all the features it adds, not only for regular users but also game devs.
SC earning 700m with ONLY AN ALPHA (it's not even a Beta) running for testing purposes is fishy, and looks scammy, i get that, but look at it from the fans of scifi perspective: we are FUCKING THIRSTY of a damn good space sim game, the last good one we had was Freelancer, back in 2005, with the exception of X4, but that's certainly not an easy game to hop on, the others are either space minecraft (NMS), or crappy space fighter simulator (Elite), and then we have some rogue projects here and there like Flight of Nova, that's it.
At this point we are gonna keep pushing money into the game, even if it takes 10 more years to reach the announced 1.0, because no other game company in this planet would ever risk making something like SC, no investor would be crazy enough to put money on this game, either, we pay it ourselves (at the risk of failing and loosing it all, and at the expanse that some of it will be going towards not really needed goals like those renovations they are doing in the studios where they are trying to mimic ship interiors and have a freaking bar with bartender included), or we will NEVER see something like this coming.
Look at the current market of videogames, publishers only sign for 3 things: CoD, Assassin's Creed, or a mix of both, that's what's been going on for the past 15 years.
You can play Cyberpunk 2077, that you will not have a need to play any assassin's creed, or CoD, or any other clone ever.
The only exception to this are the ever lasting niche things like LoL, Minecraft, or if you want an FPS, Apex, which is another CoD clone.
The vidiya market is stagnant AF, at the border of absolute collapse, the only one doing it's own thing is Nintendo, and just because they can keep getting away with SLIGHTLY tweaking the current "meta" and then throwing some spin offs in the middle to not let people burn out of the same damn game over and over.
Im a MASSIVE space and scifi guy, I spent untold hours in games like Freelancer, Independence War 2, Dark Star One, the X series, Elite Dangerous, No Man's Sky, Starfield.. etc etc
When I first saw Star Citizen crowdfund in 2012 I was so excited, it seemed like a dream come true.. and that gave me pause, it was TOO good to be true and I ultimately chose not to contribute at that stage. Needless to say I am glad I didnt. The amount of money they have consumed is obscene and to take 12 years and STILL not have a 1.0 is absolutely insane. One that will STILL be pumped full of MTX. Such a shame that this came to this point.
I hope that they release a complete experience without the repugnant mtx but lets be honest, thats not going to happen (at least the 2nd part). Might give it a look when it goes F2P or is deeply discounted.
Same.
See, what they were offing in 2012 I thought was doable. The problems were bloat. They just kept adding more and more till it just became something they couldn't make. Like X4 is almost everything star citizen wanted to be. It might be better to just get x4, use it as a template and add the bits it is missing that star citizen has and you are gold.
I'm one of the semi original 2013 backers. when star citizen switched to a "buy ships for big money" funding model to fuel development I fell into the camp of people who believed the game would never release. I don't know how many ships SC now has, but it must be way more then Elite Dangerous, they were literally filling every possible tiny niche of ship requirement to keep the money flowing. So, with this announcement, I'm very happy to say, on one hand, I was wrong. I think this new model will actually permit a game to release, it takes what they have or could reasonably put in place and put a game out, and that has to be a really good thing. On the other hand, if the game had been advertised in 2013 as a player driven sandbox, with content being created by players, and mostly reliant on people playing in large groups and needing to spend lots of time in game to accomplish things, I would not have backed. It wasn't what I thought the game would be, and is not at all what I signed up for. I think there are a ton of players out there in this current generation of gamers who will love this, but sadly I'm not one of them. It's hard not to feel let down, but as I say, I am genuinely pleased a game will now very likely release.
I would be VERY surprised if Star Citizen 1.0 gets released before 2035
It's nice that some people can still be unabashed optimists. It makes me feel like Ward Cleaver is just, walkin' 'round out there somewhere.
by then we will have SC integrated in our brain :) with Elons toys no need for fast computers then :) and AI will be developing games or do the biggest part of it, it will go fast and flawless then.
People love to hate, but there's nothing else like this game. I've been in since the beginning and I have been enjoying it every step of the way. As a programmer myself, I am in awe of everything they've accomplished. Real time server meshing is basically magic.
Server meshing is a concept that Chris heard while working on Ultima online. Since then it sticked in his head. Many mmos are already doing it. A bit like many other features CIG are presenting at Citizencon are options that already exist in other game engines like UE. He is rebranding already existing concepts. Most people agree that the game he has in mind is revolutionary, the issue is how he is trying to get there. A lot of money is lost fumbling around, trying to re-invent a wheel that is already out there. The reason why no one attempting this yet is because it is too massive to start with.
True... most other games are actually games, that people can play. 😂
Yeah, I’d rather have, and expected, a "theme park" MMO full of quests, colorful characters, and stories. Not really Rust in Space…
Exactly! Unfortunately a lot of the loud spectrum folks want everust.
Go play starfield
@@jmreasor10 he said MMO
So you want games like Warframe, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Trek Online, WildStar, Anarchy, Entropia, Starwars TOR, Phantasy Star, Destiny, ED, to name a few off the top of my head? Secondly where exactly did they say they were scraping the other planned content? They actually did mention the main story of SC and doing missions and jobs for NPCs and NPC organizations multiple times in the 1.0 talk.
But no lol. Time to panic. They mentioned a PVP end game and suddenly the game is moving in a direction that is bad. Do you enjoy the current situation where the PVP community has zero content other than farming salt from people trying to mine? Is that the game you want lol?
I don't think SC ever advertised itself as a theme park mmo... from the start it was a sandbox mmo. But I do get what you want, I would like a freelancer type single player game along with the wing commander type single player game like SQ42
Star Citizen's development has taken so long and we've seen promises come and go, so I'm going to continue to wait and not exclaim disappointment until I'm actually playing whatever 1.0 ends up being at release.
That said, I think what will really make me happy is to see this project in a polished state, whatever becomes the game's core.
I can't see a solo player being able to build a quiet outpost somewhere, with the idea of being left alone to do their own thing. With so few planets, even with the huge planet surfaces, I can see dissappointment in my future, as I pick up the what is left of my humble abode ad infinitum.
you can actually without being bothered in the Stanton system and so few planets lol moons ? and im sure also asteroid base how many times have you stumbled onto someone outside the regular hubs just walking over a moon surface or planet. Look at earth 8 billion people and there are still lots of places where if you would go there you would not see a human ever.
@@nemesisone8927well, planets in SC are _much_ smaller than real players, having just 2% the surface area compared to a real planet, so that's a really bad comparison.
Also, the current game severely restricts the number of players in a given "universe". So sure, you can be left alone when there's only 50 players in the entire Stanton system, but the entire pitch of SC's shared universe is that everyone will be in the same "universe", so you'll be looking at tens of thousands of players in every system...I mean, in theory because I'll highly skeptical that'll ever happen.
The first time the player base does something that the developers haven't expected (as have happened many times in EVE), and they then have to do a retcon, the whole thing is gonna blow up. Difference here being that the player base is not prepared for such things as they are in EVE.
thats what the PTU is for :)
1.0 seems like you'll be able to be in a universe that is "alive and real" like you say. The main concerns I'm seeing online is that people wont be able to solo space stations. Every time I look at the game, nothing about it says "solo".
All I got is me and like 16 mates, I'm considering just going to big ORG and requesting we manage a space station of theirs.
make an org of 16 no problem at all join an alliance and bam you can do what you like EVE example :) perhaps good idea to play eve no joke its a good learning school for SC later
My concern is not soloing space stations but the whole endgame loop around them this will be locked down by few big orgs giving them the only access to rare resources needed for Tier 5 ships and Tier 3 FPS gear which in turn will pretty much secure they hold onto those planets forever, sure they may sell those resources on the market for extremely high prices but again that only secures their hold on the resources as nobody will be able to afford to fight against the org with cheap unlimited access to the highest tier ships and gear.
I'm excited, but not holding my breath in anticipation. I'll keep Star Citizen on my radar, occasionally play the game - but won't really invest more energy into it until all these promises actually get delivered, which is like 3 to 4 years from now, assuming Roberts doesn't run out of money before then - which from many rumours, appears could happen. I have played both solo and co-op in MMOs for decades. Both game play styles have their advantages and disadvantages. As I've gotten older, I've preferred to be able to solo most of the time, with the occasional foray into group play. But I don't think I'm going to want to play an MMO for long that forces me into group play - so I do hope Star Citizen, if it survives to 1.0 release, does keep in mind solo play styles.
"Where did it bring you? Back to me" -Elite Dangerous
ew lmao, wouldnt dream of that garbage pile
Nothing will ever do that. Irreversibly lost its way after 'Engineers' and only got worse.
ED keeps losing players and SC keeps gaining more, thats real numbers
Never. Prefer to play NmS than to go back to Elite. They gave is the middle finger a long time ago.
Are u about of the jump simulator to the billions same systems with different colour balls? Nope, enough
Survival can be okay if you don't need to micromanage everything. It would be nice if your character didn't get hungry or thirsty if you're in a ship or a city, but if you crash land on a planet, then it becomes something to manage.
No Mans Sky.
If SQ42 is "releasing" in 2026, the PU isn't ready before 2027.
I feel like they may be trying to sync a 1.0 and sq42 launch
@aviator2252 Not a chance tbh, I get people would like to dream but the polish alone needed in the PU needs more than 2-3 years, especially as systems are incorporated into the title.
My sweet summer child. It will be closer to 2037 than 2027.
@@aviator2252my goodness no, not even CiG would try that.
I see. I guess CIG looked at Fallout 76 and thought "that would work if it was in space".
This literally just sounds like they realised scripting and crafting the single player experience was too much hassle for the time and money it would cost, based on the time and money already spent. Not surprised. That's what happens when you spend 11 years crafting one world and system and backing technology for simulating more, suddenly you run out of money and 90% of the filler work isn't done and has to be scoped out.
Don't forget the few hundred million Chris gives himself lol
12:00 to address your concerns, i think the nice thing about a sandbox with the scale SC 1.0 is shooting for is that you don't have to participate in the big org/stations/thing. You can build a shipping empire and never get directly involved with any other orgs. Just pick your goal and go do it. You could run pve missions forever and just buy the things you need. I like that it looks like they are trying to keep a very flexible playing style in the game. I'll be upset if the basically force you to play the PU "story line" to unlock certain things.
You'll be forced to play the story line to unlock "citizenship". StarCitizen originally required to play SQ42 to become a citizen but that now is an independent game. Without Citizenship you'll be a civillian and you won't have the privileges of citizens, like buying land wherever you want in the UEE. This was announced in the CItizenCon few days ago.
CIG promised a game, they didn't tell everyone the first 15 years was going to be used to create the game engine from scratch with minimal game playability and massive bugs as they develop the game engine, not the game. Players paid to play a game, not fund the game engine development, they need to be separate. SC funding the creation of 1 or more other games and game engine. We don't pay Unreal $800 million for a buggy barely playable small game while they work on a new game engine from scratch (hypothetical).
Let's not forget that as technology improves, the game engine will need to be overhauled accordingly, thus making the assets of the game outdated and will also need to be overhauled. How many times this has already happened, I don't know, but for how long will it continue, I still don't know.
@@mrpositronia overhauling existing content is much easier than creating it from scratch and plenty off companies do it today, but with the level of detail CIG uses on assets, the odds off them becoming outdated, are near 0. Best example of a game that could use a facelift is WoW, but here we are 20 years later, with alot of old content still in active use
They are making it so you can't just jump in and have fun, and build your own thing.
Imagine building a small home/base on a planet.
Some griever flys by with a nuke, then laughs in chat about it.
Then you have pirates.... ugg... people who NEED grinders in order to take from others.
They don't produce anything of value.
Then you have forced team play, so every payout is not divided into less and less, but you need to pay more and more for fuel, repairs, insurance, etc.
The game they are pushing is pushing many people out.
People who have survived many wipes, and rebuilt, will just walk away.
Despite my love for space games as probably many of you guys, when the timeframe is so long and undetermined it doesn't make sense to me to have interest in SC. I'm human, I'm turned 40 this year and my life isnt endless. I prefer playing with something real and finished.
Just my 2 cents of course. 😂
It's sad that a lot of SC fans thrive on the dream, rather than the reality. Mind you, it's the dream that made the dev team their riches. So keep selling the dream.
Exactly, thats why I play MSFS. Its done and ready, still improving and at a more the reasoanble speed.
@@Star-bp5jjerr MSFS will never be done. They will always be releasing new content, new planes, airports scenery, textures. If you define "it's done" as in nothing more will be added, like when you get to the end of a book then it will never be done. And know what that's fine most MMO games are exactly the same Star Trek online is still releasing content, Star Wars the Old Republic is still doing that too and that game started in 2011. Not sure why people take exception to this for this game?
@@kityhawk2000that's a whole lot of bad faithed bullshitery.
The game is done, as in, fully released, but is still supported and updated with bug fixes and content here and there. But the main game is released.
Don't try and twist reality.
@@kityhawk2000 You are completely missing the point. Msfs is a product that is finished. Its released ! It has 99% basic core functions of a flight simulator. Its not in alpha state, Talking about extra content and updates being released is completely irrevelent. Ive Been playing sim for the last 20 years, I know what im talking about. Yes we take issue with starcitizen because its 12 years with 700+ million and not even 50% done.. so your point is errr.
As a matter of fact, and I remeber this because it was one of the Reasons to pledge in 2013, Chris Roberts said that Star Citizen is ment to be played by a single Player per ship and that crew the stations with real players is purely optional and the whole is designed to have NPC-Crew at different levels of quality and that the AI, in general, can not be differentiated from a players behavior etc.
To now say that this will not be part of 1.0 or even not be the case anymore is, besides many other things, a big promise not kept. The whole Idea of even the capital ships like the Idris was to be able to run it all alone and be on par with real people on stations if youre NPC crew is of good quality. Yet another reason to really think about asking the money back. Would be a nice PC I can buy from that money, one I should buy to play the game anyway.....
Before we even have this conversation we need to see what dynamic server meshing does for the server overhead. AI is extremely expensive.
I wouldn’t blame you for refunding though. 2013 is a long time to wait for something that has shifted what it wants to be so many times.
HUh you didn't hear about the post on reddit today huh? Why don't you take 5 min and go read that reply from the dev and then comeback an erase this as it just makes you look foolish and uniformed.
Remember that 'solo play' doesn't mean you should be able to do everything by yourself. The Mandalorian does not repair his own ship. He lands at a mechanic and pays others for the things he doesn't do himself. And he drives a single-pilot ship - not a capital battleship. The loner character still lives in a world full of other people, and pays them for services as needed. So, an expectation that the loner will build a battleship is kind of silly.
I have a theory that this game is a retirement plan for developers that got tired of the industry. So they started their own company knowing the game would never finish. Yet they keep making money off the potential gamers see. It's a theory, likely a wrong one. But for real, how much longer are they thinking it's going to take to finish this game? Open alpha for over a decade now, that's just a BIT insane.
Same goes for Scum. Shit or get off the pot already.
They don't sell the bacon, they sell the sizzle.
For me I'm still excited for the release, most things make sense, but let's see how they turn out.
I don't care about 100 star systems when they first 5 are very detailed.
Base Building + Player Stations sounds amazing.
I mostly will explore, mine and build bases and do goofy stuff or simply fly around planets for fun. But i also love sandbox games.
Also i like the idea of player driven gaming experience. When it works.
base building and player stations like they showed it looks boring and a waste of my time, they will make the time and money u need to actually be able to start building one of these insanely high like everything else
@@chaosewokyeah... Cause it's a space station, it would be expensive. It should be expensive. I'm glad it'll be something that only groups will be able to afford. And boring? Did you miss the presentation? These things are modular with all kinds of additions and attachments and you know they'll add more a couple years after the initial release.
I never liked any game that had base building. So this killed any enthusiasm I may have had (which was a while back now, I have to admit). I really didn't like No Man's Sky for all its modern day gaming tropes.
It's not what I was hoping for 2016-current!
It is a very interesting direction they are taking. A type of gameplay loop that lands itself to a more hardcore player base like the one we see in Eve. However without the leveling system of Eve it might also be possible for more casual players to participate in some of the gameplay. That being said, if Star Citizen actually allows true null sec, then that part of space is going to be out of bounds for casuals I'd assume, as Corps will quickly take over and shoot down anything that does not belong to them unless they implement some incentive to not do that.
i think my kids will love playing this game long after i die.
try grand kids!
your kids kids kids
I've been watching SC basically from the start (didn't get in on the kickstarter, but was following back then and bought in shortly after, once the pledge store was up). I don't quite understand where some of the "this isn't what I signed on for" sentiment is coming from. Land ownership and base building were among the earliest promises, way back before we even had functional ships to play with. I don't think CIG is above criticism at all, but the idea that building would be part of the game has been there from the start.
I think some of the mixed reaction can be explained by player expectations coming from what's currently in-game or what people other than CIG have made the game out to be, but also it feels like some people didn't watch the same panels I did, because it looks like solo play will be viable and rewarding. For example, they talked about the guilds having representatives that you'll call and meet with, NPCs who will offer you work and in that way guide your journey through the verse. Of course there's now the announcement of a story for the MMO side (separate from SQ42) as well. Yes some of what they talked about for solo gameplay loops involved crafting, but since they've already said players can sell what they craft, it seems like you'll be able to avoid the crafting if you hate it by simply buying things off other players.
At the end of the day, most MMOs have group content as the main end-game content. I don't know if that's entirely avoidable. SC seems to be building the resources for players to tackle some things from a solo perspective (group finder for events and end-game missions), and then there's going to be a level of gameplay that's angled towards orgs. Some of the big promises CIG has made through the years, like having big combined-arms combat, kind of assumes large numbers of players working together. I think the picture of 1.0 they gave us represents delivering on the core aspects of the game they have been talking about making, as well as promising more to come. I understand people will have anxieties over their idealised version of the game inevitably collapsing into what CIG can (and wants to) do, but some of the criticism strikes me as a little oblivious to what actually has been promised through the years.
Agreed here… I’m also lost where this “survival” term is coming from… there are quite literally 2 high sec systems for people to stay in with AI safety/coverage for your small bases… low risk/low reward but in return a base that can’t be destroyed… so I’m just a little confused how this is a “survival” feel. It’s only that for no security systems and even then I think they’ll look into timers for attacking so people are aware when they need to defend
Most of the commenters feel like they somehow know the game better than the devs, while having a shallow binary understandment and taking any new information as a replacement of older ones.
They get offended that they didn't want an mmo when it was always stated.
They get outraged that the game is now "only" for guilds, when it was stated that it is providing single player content and narrative.
They hold on words like "end game content" without using their brains to understand that maybe, that end game is for a certain slice of the player base.
It's all short sighted, anything to feel relevant in the age of outrage.
I don't think CIG said that they would abandon the 100 star System goal, but would instead add them as they became available over time.
For me, Star Citizen has always been a social game. I play solo when friends are not available, and look forward to the times when we can accomplish goals together.
I am not surprised at the direction CIG is taking. I suspect there will continue to be some NPC influence, with contract jobs and incursion events by hostile aliens, like the Vanduul.
I am quite excited about this recent CitizenCon peek into the game's future, but I am concerned about CIG's ability to conquer the plague of server instability and eliminate the constant bugs that keep ruining player experiences
yeah CIG says they are going to release with 5 system and idiots are screaming they are only Doing 5 Systems forever!! There will be multiple systems released yearly after that eventually they may hit 100 system or surpass that who cares as long as we can play it all the while.
i dont care tbh about social im not social hehe i played SC alone allot and with an org either way its okay.
Any ship that matters takes crew. Most people will have issues crewing a ship, unless it is a planned event. So, CiG just refused to make NPC crew for 1.0 forcing out many players from using their shiny ships for real money! NOT HAPPY
They announced AI Blades for 1.0 (Rich did in Spectrum after the convention), but not NPC for now. Rich said, they will never be as good as a good player and use power, like engines and shields (AI blades and NPC) - much room for speculation still. And you will be easily able to crew up a ship with the new chat and group finder etc.
im glad im back at my Aurora lol
Chris Roberts saw X4 and said "how can we make that game but for whales and avoid to make a game and get paid for years to come?" He did it...
Didn’t Fallout 76 try to pull this same stunt? “Oh we don’t need NPCs, everything will be played driven.” Remember how well that worked out for them? 😂
Yup, spot on.
We were always going to have NPC's too, but we were also always going to have a completely player driven economy just like EVE Online.
@@nuanil exactly its a combination of both i dont understand why people dont get that :)
This is at the core of the Eve Online debates for years. “I like to mine and run missions in high sec, why am I not safe from those jerks?”. It goes back even farther in other games like Ultima Online and the origin of the term PK’s! communities vs solo players…. Communities build friendship and retention, which is the lifeblood of an MMO, solo players are like rental tenants, they move on when the grass looks greener, like when a Minecraft or Skyrim comes along. In the end, I get the direction for the game, but hate it as one of those solo players, as I did in UO and Eve.
you also need to understand that solo player make a significant amount of an MMO player base as well.
Good observation but as a PVPer I sit on the other side of your fence there, and to be fair, I think that actually you do too.. You may have socialised less in those games but for example in EVE online it's practically impossible to play that game without some interaction with other players as the market is entirely player ran.. When you sell to a buy order, you interacted indirectly with another player, that time you jumped a few systens to find a better price for your Veldspar, you technically PVPed! So you may not play with others, nor appreciate pre-pubescent space pirates blowing your shit up (who does!) but part of your enjoyment of those games and their systems comes from some form of player interaction.. If you're a veteran gamer you'll agree that no matter how detailed CIG made a solo-centric, NPC filled SC game, it wouldn't take you very long to see the limits of the conversation trees, or the predictability of the ai.. There have been some amazing virtual worlds over the years but every time it takes us all about 5 minutes to spot the limits, and from there the immersion slowly seeps away.
I reckon that you would find plenty of enjoyable aspects of Star Citizen and that a not too insignificant portion of that enjoyment will come from the unique emergent gameplay situations that even a solo player is bound to discover as they go about their space-business in a world filled with other humans.. Like finding a tonne of wreckage from a recent PVP fight and in that wreckage you find some guys rare helmet that he got for winning at jumptown or something... That sounds much more fun than listening to the same 4 banterous exchanges an NPC Bengal bridge crew fire at eachother every 10 minutes.
CIG mentioned that player driven content is only part of the scope and would be end game material. They had a whole segment speaking about the backbone of the game being the NARRATIVE that drives the story/world/lore. They said that the player would have a choice to either follow missions and content based on the narrative provided OR venture out on their own. They've also detailed how aligning yourself with various NPC factions would either remove or provide access to different rewards and missions through a reputation system.
The reason why base building and crafting was such a big segment is because it was never covered in length as it has been in this last event. You seem have taken it as that's the core element but do well to listen to other parts of the event (both days) IF you want to know their direction.
NPC reputation and background narrative have always been known to be a core element of the game as it is NOW while in Alpha. Why would they scrap that or shrink it's significance while it's actively being worked on to focus only on player driven narrative?
There is solo player content now as there will most likely be built upon at launch.
Why would they shrink it ? Because in the span of time it will take to release 1.0 they will never complete all the core lore function and content promisesd. Hence why they went from Freelancer vision to survival base building and crafting.. they are smart enough to realize project will never see the scope in the next 5 year, so scope gets smaller, hence why all the old backers are getting upset that the game they funded is a far cry from where its going today
@@Star-bp5jj I don't know where you guys are getting this information. What I sited was directly communicated during citcon. The backbone narrative will be accessible to all players to provide a story based playthrough that will involve different missions. Even Obsidian mentioned it himself without realizing the context behind "citizenship". You won't gain citizenship from player based gameplay. It's a result of reaching a point in the background narrative story.
Like I said, this was detailed in citcon. I have yet to see CIG stating that they're moving away from a solo player story driven narrative and focusing on PVP/org gameplay.
@@Kakeyoro I think you are confused respectively. To gain the citizenship through story narrative gameplay is achevied only through SQ42, a seprate game, Not the Starcitizen(PU).
When funding started for star citizen PU it was pictched as a type of open world modern day freelancer with a living breathing universe. But things have changed, this project is more complex, much bigger vision this means more expensive more time Consuming, ect ect. We are still missing major core mechnicnics in the game, most game loops are missing, they will need to add those in before creating serious narrative driven content/missions/lore. You need to have a foundation before the house is built. To create a background stroy that you can interact with in the PU you would think core feautres would need to be ready first. Thats why I said they started to focus on player created gameplay like building and crafting, something that was never pitched and is not the star citizen we all backed.
Now im not saying they will not be working on story driven gameplay in the PU, what im saying is the focus right now is to have something at least playable by 1.0 release, and its Not a rich lore filled universe that you can interact with.. Not at least in the next half decade.
They started the whole 1.0 talking about solo missions in the main story, with many smaller local quests.
The space stations are for the mega org end game, not meant for solo players.
Do you think that should be attainable for solo players?
On top of that, just because they are "not attainable", for solo players, it doesn't mean they will not benefit, or be able to interact with them, you set home in a non npc populated planet?, but an org has a space station there, welp, you can sell your stuff there, instead of traveling to another system or planet to sell your riches, or interact with other gameplay loops.
@@unlimitedslash EvE and Rust taught us that endgame content will be sealed off to outsiders via strict kill-on-sight rules of engagement. Either you will be a vasall or an enemy of the organisation.
It feels like the direction for the game changed. Crafting games weren't huge when the game first got announced. I'm not that upset about the change, I like crafting games well enough, but I'm disappointed as it doesn't feel like the original vision for the game. Will need to play it to see, but I'm happy 1.0 got announced. No more perpetual early access hell.
This game has no soul or true vision
crafting Bengal carriers. if you had told me that was the plan 10 years ago I would have quoted you Chris Roberts. but he's no longer in charge.
1. F them, the vision has change countless times already with endless re polish and feature creep. No wonder why CR got his brit rear end kicked out of hollywood.
2. Who cares about the annoucnement for 1.0, they have anncouned alot of things that we still have not got.. Means nothing.
I hate crafting games. Busy work is not something I want to do when I'm relaxing in my own time.
Star Citizen 1.0 just looks like everything we had with Star Wars Galaxies and I'm excited to have that style of game and community again.
I found the presentation interesting enough, but I don't expect to see anything that they announced for at least another 3 years. The 1.0 release is probably still at least 5 years away. They still haven't delivered everything they announced at *last year's* event, and now they're announcing a whole load of new things? On top of that, the game has been showing a "Degraded Performance" message ever since 3.42.2 dropped. Oh yeah, and their genius plan to drop the "fullscreen" graphics mode means I now either have to play the game in a smaller window on my main monitor, or run the game at a higher resolution and suffer around 20fps. Thanks for that, CIG.
Yeah 3.24.2 is a pre-hook patch for 4.0 -- so it will never work right until all of the backend systems from 4.0 are brought online since it is the server meshing patch.
Ive been working in games in one form or another for around 14 years, i can tell you. If the tech they are doing can do what they think, it will speed up a lot of how quickly they can deliver. From some of the presentations, some of the tech looks pretty close to ready, others are further out. But i think we might see 1.0 maybe 2-3 years if things track. As to the performance, hopefully issues with patches will be limited, but the big changes will come towards the end, optimization is always the last steps in development.
I honestly don't see the issue with playing borderless, if it bothers you that much, look for a tool similar to "gamescope" on windows, something you can wrap the client in and handle the window behavior externally to the client, works on linux just fine for me.
Other ideas is to simply run on borderless and use FSR/DLSS/XeSS to render the game at a lower resolution.
They changed it due to being an obsolete legacy function of DX11, the plan is to move entirely to Vulkan, and Vulkan DOESN'T HAVE exclusive fullscreen mode, why? i don't know, but exclusive full screen mode has usually more input lag and can cause stuttering.
Also, they already mentioned to have in the works a custom solution for this.
Fair enough. They said 12 to 18 month for T0 basebuilding and monsterhunting If I remember correctly. Addiing the obligatory +1year-CIG rule you'll get to a little less then 3 years.
@@unlimitedslash Thanks for the tip. I'll have a look at those options. I already use DLSS.
CIG said at Citcon that they wanted a shorter side story per system. Then you'll still have mission giving NPCs, reputation, and the grind for the best ship upgrades you can get. They're still going to work and release NPC crews, just not right away.
But it seems like people need to come to terms that SC is an MMO, and that will have elements that require other player interaction.
Their math ain't mathing.
Back when CIG was trying a "small" Kickstarter, they said 100 systems.
Now, with well over 500 million in crowdfunding they're saying they can do ... 5 systems?
A hundred million + in funding per system?
You're ignorant of the difference. The original kickstarter promised 'Freelancer' style star systems with planets that have a single landing zone. You fly to planet. Select land. Cut scene. Trading screen. Leave. Cut scene. Back in space. It was NOT what it is now, real world Moon sized planets that are fully explorable and base buildable with 100s of points of interest that you can fly to, no loading screens, seemlessly, at any time.
The kickstarter vision isn't even close to what it actually morphed into.
@@ryanc2893 plus i'm honestly fine with not getting 100 systems based on the scale of the current one. a couple dozen would be overwhelmingly big so i feel like 5 to start is more than enough.
@@ryanc2893that’s fine but they’ve basically made a different game to the original one that was proposed and many people backed. Many of us wanted a higher fidelity successor to freelancer/space sim. They added all these extra features that weren’t necessary and have made a very different game and had to cut the 100 systems to do it.
@@NRProductionss Your opinion is the minority one then of all the backers. They surveyed backers years ago after hundreds of millions of dollars on what they actually wanted.
Vast majority wanted this new direction
@@ryanc2893 many came later thinking it was a different game to what was pitched
I said way back at the early phase of backing, that for the additional star systems, that CIG should adapt the wormhole game system from Eve Online to create procedurally generated exploration points that can become places for groups of players to occupy. It fulfills the exploration, colonization, self-sufficient and potential combat scenarios that come out of these "opportunities". No need for 100 fully built systems, CIG can then focus on everything else on the project timeline.
Obviously the above does not just manifest out of the ether, from a dev/prog pov. so would also take time.
NPC driven activity requires someone creating that. That requires manpower and creative minds, which they will skip now.
Never heard of randomly generated?
Why would they skip that?
@@beardedlonewolf7695 it's player driven now. no more NPC generation
I thought all that money was there to pay for the staff to create the NPC world. Seems they can't be bothered now.
@@walawala-fo7ds Player driven instead of NPC... Danny76334: "Hi stranger, could you help me get a cooling system I left on Vladnar 1? I'd make it worth your while."
Yeah, not going to happen.
A player driven sandbox is exactly what I've been waiting for all my very long life. A universe where players shape the course of its history and not the developers.
If Squadron 42 was “feature complete” pretty much exactly one year ago, but we still won’t get it for another 12+ months, then what on earth kind of lead time are we going to have for Star Citizen 1.0??
And what they’ve announced is basically X4 Foundations but online. And all the single player content removed. And that came out 6 years ago, from a much smaller team for a lot less money.
Key word was feature…let that sink in.
Cyberpunk was "feature complete" in 2019 and it needed 3 delays and an extra 33 months of "polishing" (after release) until it was deemed fixed.
And multiplayer for that was completely scrapped.
@@AQDuck Fair points, but that makes my own point more relevant. Taking their word for it, if going from "feature complete" to release is going to take 2 years for Sq42, then we are going to be a long long way from SC 1.0 if they are still adding 'features' at this point, and they still have to work on Sq42 in the meantime. Star Citizen is still many years away at this point.
These guys are the Spinal Tap of the game development world 😂
i hate to be the meme, but those tiny ass planets 100% ruin the visual experience to me.
They are not actually tiny, ArcCorp is 2000 km in diameter or 1:6 of the size of Earth. Try walking and driving that distance :) Also the big bigger the planet the more emptier it will be.
or you have a small screen or you have not played SC at all lol have you walked on a moon in SC? nope dont think you have lmao try to walk or drive or even fly around one lmao
This has probably been the most grounded CitizenCon so far.
A more realistic view of what they are able to do with the tech available after the 4.0 Update. Meshing can get them far, but there are still boundaries for what they can do with it.
While they didn't say "we fucked up in this and that area", they were admitting unrealistic expectations by replacing them with a new, more structured direction.
Will these 1.0 plans be more realistic? Not even CIG will be able to say at this point. But some of the lofty promises from the 2010s are gone, in doubt or have been replaced by ideas from MMOs like EVE and Star Wars Galaxies - and I'm very thankful for that.
For everyone following the project more closely is probably realizing that these changes are the result of a change in leadership that seems to be happening in the background.
Chris Roberts isn't out of the picture and his input about the general direction will still be needed in the future, but Richard Tyrer is now the man pushing both projects (Squadron and Star Citizen) over the finish line.
He knows what is available to him and also the problems CIG is facing after so many years of bad management under CR.
But only (more) time can tell if he can release a successful singleplayer title and a 1.0 for an MMO that delivers us the dream of virtually living among the stars for many years to come...
NPC missions aren't disappearing. In fact, they are being expanded upon, with more bespoke mission givers involved in the Main Story, and more missions pulled off of the mobiglas and given to actual NPCs that you have to go interact with to get the mission and story behind it.
Honestly, it sounds like you didn't actually watch the CitCon panels.
I literally spoke about careers, missions, guilds and more in this video. The entire middle section is dedicated to it. Honestly sounds like you didn't watch the entire video. 😁
I don't think they are excluding quests and stories for 1.0 release. They did have a presentation on the quest line for gaining citizenship. They also mentioned that as part of their "Genesis" system, the game will generate procedurally created quests along with the content on planets. A lot of the focus at this year's Citizencon was on Squadron 42 and what players will be able to create in game (crafting and base building). CIG tends to talk about what they are currently or have recently worked on.
While no doubt crafting and base building will be a large part of the game, I still think quests and missions will still be a significant part of the game as well. They have been spending all this time working on characters and AI for Squadron 42. A lot of this tech from Squadron 42 can be brought over into Star Citizen.
The thing holding things up is server meshing, which is the next major patch. Hopefully server meshing (4.0) goes well and they can move on to full dynamic server meshing and then start adding more content.
Lost hope in 2020.
I feel like CIG may be gearing the sim only to preexisting points of interests on the map and not player POIs (bases, space stations, etc.) players can influence the sim behavior by depleting resources, or engaging in piracy, or enforcing piracy but the movement of the sim will largely be focused around the genesis POIs
If I can feed people to giant sand works, then we have an end game. 🎉😁
For long term backers its all and more than we could have wished for, the depth, immersion, opportunity and support for all types of game play , and an excellent, clear explanation on the future of insurance and economy. CitizenCON showed CIG has not been sitting on their laurels, the amount of content they have already developed is staggering, it did emphasise one basic fact, no one outside an ORG needs, or could support a Pioneer. CC has no doubt given some backers a lot the digest, re-assess their hopes and dreams. CIG have said just a few months ago, NPC Crew are a ways off yet, its on the roadmap, but thankfully we wont have that nonsense in game for yrs. Good luck soloing a Polaris.
I really think that the reason you are seeing this shift towards player driven experiences is CIG realizing that populating a solar system, let alone a universe, with developer narrated stories and locations isn't possible in a feasible time scale. They tried it with Stanton and Pyro and it is taking far too long. That is why they are moving to more procedural systems for location generation (which will likely lead to the complaint that most places feel the same). Leveraging the player base not only for locations but possibly as mission creators allows them to increase player engagement while they could continue to build and enhance their Main Story and location based stories they also mentioned at CitizenCon.
Basically, they are giving players the ability to create their own stories in the sandbox while CIG continues to slowly work on building more theme-park like experiences for those that want a more guided or externally narrated experience. SWG was largely a sandbox style MMO with theme-parks so it could work well and I have seen many compare Star Citizen to SWG as a sort of spiritual successor.
Except that this isn't a reaction, it's been in the works for a long time.
What they showed for procedural locations looked MILES better than starfield or elite, so I’m actually pretty confident that will be a bright spot for them. Plenty of other concerning things, but the Montreal team so far has nailed outposts and POI diversity and design
@@moontreecollective6718 The Montreal team has been hand crafting those outposts so the POI diversity is due to artists specifically making them look diverse. We have yet to see whether they can achieve such diversity when using procedural systems. There are already complaints that stations look mostly the same because they use all the same assets just in different configurations so I don't think it is a stretch to think that when they start to do procedural stuff they will have the same issue. As their catalog of assets grows it should be less of an issue but they likely will want to prevent future updates from completely changing the layout of things every time the catalog is updated.
@@Tsudico they’ve been handcrafting the individual assets too, and they literally showed exactly how they could be put together procedurally. Of course, there’s going to be some repeat of items, there has to be, but so far it seems much better designed than other comparable games
@@moontreecollective6718 Yes, and they use handcrafted individual assets in stations and caves too. That hasn't stopped people from complaining about how similar stations look or caves look. It will likely get worse before it can get better because until they have a huge asset catalog they will have limited amounts of things to place in locations so there will be repeats, especially if they vastly increase the amount of locations. It isn't necessarily a concern about the same building being at a location multiple times, but the same building being at 5 or 10 or more different outposts which starts to make everything seem the same.
Don't get me wrong, reality has the same issue but it is noticeable in games because games for a long time have largely used handcrafted locations made to be unique from each other.
I was initially concerned that SC would turn into a PVP only game, but after watching CitCon presentation, I can see that it will cater to all player style. I also suspect the space station building will require a massive amount of resources, same for building a Bengal. I don't think there will be that many stations around and if there is, the man power required to field will discourage a lot of orgs on fielding them and they won't be everywhere either. and don't forget that there will also have an NPC driven campaign, so I suspect NPC's will still play a vital part in the sand-box universe.
This doesn't look like $700 million worth of content
at least 350m went to sq42
They do 2 games. 70% for Squadron42 and 30% to Citizen.
It's millions to the developers pockets
true it looks more like 900 million tbh
@@simplysolutions3146 its the same game just on one you gotta roll play with your friends that you are minions for some big shot with money and the other one is a 20 minute long restricted turret sequence and quicktime events through forced playable corridors. As with all the people with their hopes up i aswell hope i'm wrong but i'll see to believe it if it ever comes out.
I am excited for my grandchildren to be able to engage in the 1.0 story arc and become full on Star Citizens. So cool.
This has got "The shareholders have spoken", kinda vibe to it...
Yea, CIG's "shareholders" are the backers.
@@SnowTerebi So the backers are getting sick of the delays then.
@@mrpositronia CIG probably wanna push out an initial release sooner too.
I'm happy that 1.0 appears within reach of where the game is now. I know that sounds wild to many given how notorious Star Citizen's development has been. I think they can release a functioning farmfest game where orgs can collectively farm for tens of thousands to build destroyable assets that then need farmed for.
I think creating a living universe at the granular level of Star Citizen is unprecedented and would have been impossible in 1.0. i'm glad they made decisions that could create a functioning game that we have a reason to play consistently.
Personally, I like the idea of a living universe that players can influence... And I think that given a wide variety of gameplay loops, players should be able to influence a lot in a system, especially when given a large enough player group. That kind of game philosophy is my dream space game. I hope that down the line Star Citizen goes down that path and one could see a way for them to do it in later major updates, but I'd play even if its permanently player driven.
I can’t even plot a route to a planet. Why would I ever believe that any of this will happen.
What do you mean? I was literally playing yesterday and was able to do this without issue.
@@MrRoblcopterwhen I try to get a route for instance to CRL-3 station. It keeps highlighting a mining claim. No matter how close I zoom in.
You have to warp there first. The claim acts as like a planet before you can qt to the surrounding areas.@@adiedri38
@@adiedri38 I've experienced this problem a lot because of how they have clustered the mining claims near the space station. I have had success zooming in to the clump and panning around until I could find the station. Clicking on the station then allowed me to route to it.
Another possibility is looking up the name of the station and then typing the name in the Search. VerseGuide can be a big help here because you can find the name of stations, such as HUR-L1 Green Glade or find out that CRU-L3 doesn't actually have a station.
@@adiedri38 yea, looks like you might not be entirely alone, on the Issue council I found #STARC-41245, which seems to be slightly related to your issue, as I see someone on there talking about only being able to find a mining claim in those locations.
"The community reaction"
The majority works like an eco chamber :
-12years ago, CR said LTI wasn't a big deal, since them, the majority think it was godlike .... it isnt.
-community said there is 9npc for 1 players ... there will be NPC everwhere, but the 9:1 is a background simulation, to avoid economy hurdles created by players("to hold" rare ressources to make prices skyrocket(like it happened in EvE online)
-yeah, all players will not be able to have a ground base in unlawfull systems, what a surprise.
-small group of players will not be able to have a player space station, another surprise.
-solo players can't do pve instancied raid/incursion, a surprise... again.
-safe systems will not be 100% safe, comms array still there... so much surprises !
Love you
NPC driven = Starfield
Player driven = Star Citizen
Dev Driven = Elite Dangerous
Actually has players = NMS ;)
I just don't trust players to proved me the story I'd be looking for, especially as I never play online against others. This is why the method that Frontier Dev use is the right balance. Introduce new scenarios to help keep it fresh for the players. It's just a shame that E:D has become another online multiplayer with virtual currency, the cancer of modern gaming.
As someone who follows SC closely and plays fairly regularly, very little here was surprising or unexpected, just formalizing what was expected. I also wouldn't be surprised if the 'main story' is still larger than anything that would have shipped if they stuck to the original kickstarter goals. Everything's just bigger. Also just like other MMO's I'm sure there will be solo friendly orgs so I'm not sure what the concern is there. Just be solo together, like any other MMO lol. Also don't forget there is a lot of NPC stuff still planned for 1.0, the part about talking with people instead of just the mobi-glass. It'll likely be somehow connected with guilds though to keep things tight.
@ObsidianAnt I think you forgot the Timestamps.
Just added them.
Its a good point that its unknown how the balance will be between players enjoying resources gathering and crafting vs those who need to output of crafting. That being said, I do believe that CIG will consider this, so it becomes a enjoyable experience for all. Personally, I am planning to go down the Industry path of resources exploration, gathering and some crafting. I will earn credits by selling what I craft.