Correction. At 5:12 screenshots were mistakenly flipped during the edit. tRFC is LOWER w/ X3D Turbo Mode, tREFI is HIGHER. Sorry about that little hiccup. Realized a few seconds after posting live and I've added a Correction Card to the video as well. - Mike
I was interested in this feature, if it worked per game/app, meaning if you could disable/enable smt /ccd per game/ app instead of just simply disabling SMT/CCD and lowering trfc/ increasing trefi . But seeing that this is all it does, i'll stick with normal curve optimizer, memory oc with manual tightening timings to get better results.
There is a program called process lasso that forces the CPU Affinity for games. so you don't need to do these brain gymnastics tasks to get better perf. windows Scheduler sucks but Process lasso is a permanent fix. its $32 lifetime license or if you don't have the means to buy it, you can always sail the seas
@@Rentta Technically it still does unless you're using it for its intended purpose. Multicore-heavy tasks will suffer from lack of SMT (just see Intels Core Ultra which is slower allcore than anything past 12th gen but faster in select games).
@@Rentta That's true, but turning half of your CPU off makes it technically slower as well. This is just not too visible in lightly-threaded applications.
honestly seems like a good feature to have if you KNOW which games to use it with. if something like this didn't require a reboot it would be far more practical.
And they would then release i9ks 15gen with Turbo enabled just for this chip because no one can afford it but people would buy it anyways even if it cost 800$ and intel would swim in all that money.
Can you guys try this with the 7950x3D? The reason the 7950X3D is worse than the 7800X3D in gaming is because of the dual CCD setup along with CCD #1 hooging almost all the 3D V cache. With the Turbo mode it should be faster than the 7800x3D. Not because of the X3D boost itself but everything being scheduled on CCD0 with 128mb of L3 cache. Compared to the 7800x3D which has 96mb of L3 cache, the 7950x3D should have 33.3% more L3 cache shared across 8 cores on CCD0. @Hardware Canucks pls try the 7950x3D next.
Each CCD of the 7950 has the same amount of L1 and L2 cache, just to be clear. These are only shown as double on 7950 parts due to the fact there are twice the number of CCDs, and the spec sheets show the sum of L1 and L2 on both of them. Disabling a CCD on the 7950x3d turns it into a 7800x3d with exactly the same L1, L2 and L3 cache amounts. We could absolutely not want the L1 and L2 of a second CCD shared over the infinity fabric!
with 7950x3d to have very good performance in gaming you need to activate the v-cache and you will see a massive improve in games and everything...i run 8 CPU on 5.5 ghz and the other 8 on 4.8 to 5 ghz and I must say temp are fantastic if you have watercooling and the outcome is wwowowowwowo....
The L3 is split, and one half gets the extra 64. So CCD0 has 96MB(32+64) and CCD1 has 32MB CCD0 is getting the same amount as the R7. What you may nbe thinking of is the 7900X3D vs the 7950X3D. It is getting the same L3 cache spread over 6 cores instead of 8 cores per CCD, so in instances where core scheduling is functioning properly the 12 core beats the 16 core in gaming.
@@douglasmurphy3266 The L3 isn't split on the 7950x3d, it is a single block on only one of the CCDs (that CCD being exactly the same as the 7800x3d's). Apologies if this was what you are already saying, I may have mis-interpreted the world "split." What I meant to be clear about is that turning off a CCD in the 7950x3d turns it into a 7800x3d with identical L1, L2 and L3 amounts; it does not have any more cache in this mode. OP said "... everything being scheduled on CCD0 with 128mb of L3 cache. Compared to the 7800x3D which has 96mb of L3 cache." They would be identical, i.e., 96Mb of v-cache + 32MB of "regular" L3 in both cases. I hope that clarifies.
@WSS_the_OG Each ccd has 32MB of L3, this is the "split". The 3D vcache module is 64MB and stacks on one CCD. Every Zen 3 and Zen 4 X3D is this exact config of 32MB + 64MB linked on top for its only CCD or primary CCD in the case of R9.
Great data. I know how hard you worked to do this. My only problem with ANY CPU data is that Windows is such a mess that it doesn't bench reliably anymore. You can have one Windows installation and it works great, then another same supposed version of Windows installed and it's worse with the exact same setup parameters. Until Microsoft sorts this out, I consider any CPU data basically impossible to grasp any definitive conclusion and that's not any reviewer's fault. It's not just a 24H2 vs 23H2 problem. Or even a Windows 10 vs Windows 11 problem, it's purely a Windows problem.
Awesome video, thanks for all the info. I just tested the turbo mode on my Aorus mainboard with my 9800x3d in 4-5 games and compared it to stock. I saw an uplift in every game. I'm gonna run it for a while and see how it goes
@@HardwareCanucks Hey. I'll try to show the data as short and understandable as possible here in this comment: Dragon Age The Veilguard - X3D Turbo - - Avg 153.1 FPS - Min 132.9 FPS - - Avg 165.6 (+8.2%) FPS - Min 140.3 FPS (+5.5%) --- Remnant 2 - X3D Turbo - - Avg 174.0 FPS - Min 140.5 FPS - - Avg 185.2 FPS (+6.4%) - Min 160.7 FPS (+14.4%) --- A Plague Tale Requiem - X3D Turbo - - Avg 198.8 FPS - Min 168.1 FPS - - Avg 206.8 FPS (+4%) - Min 166.6 FPS (-0.9%) --- Hogwarts Legacy - X3D Turbo - - Avg 168.0 FPS - Min 137.5 FPS - - Avg 179.8 FPS (+7%) - Min 151.7 FPS (+10.3%) --- I also tried Black Myth Wukong but couldn't get out of the GPU limit. The only negative number I got was the 0.1% Framerate in Dragon Age Veilguard. With X3D Turbo ON I saw there quite huge fps drops.
Thanks for the heads up, I don't have much of a reason to watch now. That would be the processor to test in this, given that it was the poster child for scheduling issues back in the day.
@@leonfrancis3418 Exactly my point. It would help to show the viewer how a chip with two CCDs performs for a mode literally created to benefit that! If they were going to review a 7x3d chip, one would think that would be the one!!!
Yup. A correction card was added to the video and there's a pinned comment to. Totally a mistake on our part that happened when we moved the TEXT above the images but forgot to move the images themselves. :(
I know this will sound silly, but it's not clear - for the 9700X and 9600X, did you test turbo mode using the default 65W power mode or AMD's newish warranty approved 105W mode?
Out of box. Sorry for not being clear since I thought the Power numbers would make that evident. If we had tested in a modified way (105W mode), then it would have been clearly indicated.
@HardwareCanucks no problem, just wanted to be fully sure. Prob get the same mixed results either way at anyrate. And from what I understand, 105W mode doesn't really do anything for gaming. It does help a scotch with productivity though, and Turbo mode would certainly hurt that.
@@dkindig PBO on the 9800X3D (assuming you meant that) is rubbish. See TechYesCity's video on it. Either you allcore overclock it properly, you just undervolt or leave it stock.
I'll let this mature, bake, a little while longer before enabling it. I'm glad that manufacturers are trying to give us more options for our configurations.
I'm not sure how much set up in configuration is involved with something like processor lasso, but it might be a good option for people wanting better gaming performance without losing all those threads for other workloads.
Ugh. Why would I want to turn off features of a CPU I paid for? Testing on Linux shows almost no downside to SMT, so it seems like scheduling across virtual threads or second CCDs is more of an OS issue.
When these were originally announced I thought it sounded like just collecting multiple settings in one and I'm sad to see that's the case. Now if AMD could dynamically shift this capability outside of the BIOS and on a per title basis it would be a killer feature since for some titles using hardware limits work better than something like process lasso.
Ultimately this is a band-aid that cripples the hardware in some ways when it should really be the OS and/or game developers coding the software to dynamically query and use the NUMA architecture of the CPU it runs on. Unfortunately, the consumer space is well behind the enterprise space where some of this has been worked out already as software might have to deal with hundreds of cores across multiple physical CPUs (like a CCD technically).
wow warhammer total war loves something about those non x3d chips. Seems to b e one of the games even the default 9800x3d lost. But 800fps+- range is def pushing a crazy high point where even things like game engine limits can start to factor in.
Windows and games should be able to extract top performance from a CPU without manual test-tweaking per game basis. Are we going to need AI for this, or they will properly code.
OK so these BIOS tweaks are 99% to mitigate the Windows scheduler. There's already software that can pin threads to specific CPU cores out there and "Ryzen optimized" games are supposed to do that by themselves. I've noticed that lowering tRFC is also beneficial on Ryzen 5000. It lowers DRAM latency quite a bit, but need thorough stress testing and a safety margin for increased temperatures (where the DRAM cells lose their charge faster).
Soooo, what I am getting from this is to buy a 9800X3D whenever I can afford it to make a major upgrade to my system, no matter what the digital turbo button does.
What this really does, is marketing. This makes AMD set the discussion on hyper threading, not Intel. Like this very video. It seems like its real purpose, is to nullify the no-more-hyperthreading argument of Intel. As for all this complaining about AMD, just look at this vid. Insanely well played, making other other people do their marketing, for free.
To make this a really useful potential feature AMD needs to incorporate this into Radeon software so Turbo Mode can be enabled on a per game basis and not forced to be used all the time either on or off. A lot of people will not want to jump in and out of BIOS as their needs change. Putting this into Radeon software and allowed to be tied to specific games would make this much more meaningful in my opinion.
@@HardwareCanucks well sort of, I mean it is based from a feature it appears was introduced in a base BIOS update from AMD. I do get some of the "secret" sauce others are backing in could not be done this way, but the base system could be.
Pretty sure this isn't possible without a reboot, sadly the Windows scheduler tries to use everything it has available to it, rather than ignoring bits in software. Not to mention you couldn't get Gigabyte's aforementioned performance improvements in the video with memory timings without a reboot.
@@NANOTECHYT I understand, I am just saying the need to drop to BIOS, change it, use the PC and return the BIOS and change it again to do something else is just nuts. This implemented so you can turn it on and off for specific app usage, thus using it when most effective only, would be a much more practical solution.
@@ELCrisler It already exists, it's an option in Xbox Game bar and it works exactly as you would expect a software solution to work, it works horribly and has none of the memory improvements Gigabyte has done which you need to manually do in the BIOS anyway. Perhaps it has improved since the 7950X3D launch where it was broken and didn't detect stuff properly, but I highly doubt it since this is Microsoft and AMD having to work together and Microsoft make awful software. It takes 30 seconds to reboot these days, not 5 minutes like in 2002, so if you want to play a game, reboot into the BIOS, turn on Turbo mode, save and exit the BIOS and 20 seconds later you're on your desktop, you can launch steam and play the game you want and it works as intended. When you're done another 30 seconds later you've turned it off in the BIOS and you've rebooted. It's not that inconvenient. Get up while the computer is booting and get a drink and come back and you're on the login screen or desktop. I agree in a practical sense, it would be much easier to have it just be an automatic software option or a toggle in Windows Settings or in the Properties of the .exe, but the reality is you cannot get faster memory timings without a reboot or retraining of the memory and even if you don't bother with the memory stuff, Windows scheduler is terrible and buggy where it does whatever it wants even when you set affinity with Task Manager or third party tools and software anyway. In essence, Windows needs a total re-design to meet the modern architectures that it's using.
i played with smt off with my 9800x3d and there’s a benefit with pbo and +200mhz where you can get it stable at max 5425mhz at bigger negative pbo settings. so for games that see benefit its very nice.
I have a dual-boot system, one OS for work and one for gaming. I'd love to have this option automatically turn on when booting into the gaming installation.
IDK how feasible it would be, if its even possible, but it would be nice if they could toggle this on for certain applications and off for ones where theres no benefits. Like Resizable BAR
Perhaps this could be added to the manufacturer's software stack. However, we recommend avoiding Armory Crate, Gigabyte Control Center, etc at all cost.
I dont think this should be the case with variable differences with different motherboards. Amd should incorporate this feature in their software. Even if it’s a motherboard feature amd can itself change the smt/clock speeds from the software and give similar experiences to all the users.
@@HardwareCanucks jk, good video! i'm an AMD fan but still playing indies on a 2600X i'll upgrade somewhen next year so it's good to hear what they got coming
Saying the feature is a Russian roulette gives the impression if you “mess up” your system is gone. Maybe next time say “flipping a coin” either it works, or it doesn’t on a certain game.
With a max boost of 4.7GHz, yes it really would be that bad in games. Not sure why anyone would want to spend all that money moving to AM5 + DDR5 just to sink a super low end CPU into it. At that point, LGA1700 + 12600K or AM4 + 5800X would be SO MUCH better.
Yeah This is a feature I am not going to use. I spend money for extra cores because I need the extra cores having to restart the computer everytime i want to go from gaming to work and vice versa is not a good solution. Windows and AMD need to fix scheduling for games this is not a good option. It would be different if you could do this in Ryzen master without going to the BIOS.
This sounds more like handicapped mode. Welcome to the 2020s marketing. Also, from your task manager screenshot it also disables HT as you had 6 cores not 12
@ so why use it? U may as well just twik the affinity and manually set to that CCD. That way u actually gain more as windows can use the other cores for background processes. Vs having 6 cores that do gaming and background
I dont understand why this needs to he a bios thing. In Linux you can basically do this at runtime with affinity settings. My desktop is a VM with PCI passthrough and its startup script pins its QEMU threads to a single CCD. I dont lock off the SMT virtual cores though. I presume you can do something similar in Windows?
The 9800X3D ran almost everything better including DOUBLING the 1% lows in Spiderman remaster from 82 to 165 and used 10% less power on average. I will be turning this mofo ON on my mobo. I don't play Warhammer 3 or Starfield anyway.
Where do u get 800 fps in cs 2 ? When i compete 1080p 440 fps average fps.. 800 fps do not exist how u test ? I have 4090 7800x3d. Build in benchmarks are not relative as real gaming.
My x870e taichi lite runs my 9800x3d all the way up to 5.7ghz all core just using pbo mobo limits. asrock has an early and not very descriptive turbo mode. Performance mode: Cinebench v1 & cinbench v2. guessing it's geared towards benchmark results. This cpu while hitting 5.7ghz in games will only go up to 5.45ghz in synthetic benchmark tests.
Wow, that RAM runs hot! I run 6400c28 with GDM disabled at 1.55v and I've only ever hit 40°C+ while running hours of memory stress tests. I guess a fan makes a TON of difference.
What's the point of buying a 16/12 core CPU if I need to half their core counts every time I want to game.. a lot of people buy the higher count cores to edit/stream WHILE gaming as well..
Yeah a few seconds after posting this live I realized the images were flipped in the edit. There's a Correction Card as well as a pinned comment about it. Sorry. :(
People want the actual FPS their system will have using the tech. Hence the shouts to put a real world resolution/settings combo. >>> The relative performance of the parts will still be comparable to each other after all, so why not give a balanced system setup the spotlight?
This should have a button in ryzen master or something to tunrn on or off before gaming if the game makes good results with it. Going into bios and setting it off or on everytime is kinda lame tbh
Stellaris and Factorio aren't CPU bound in a conventional way. Much like Rocket League and Flight Sim, they are single thread focused and not really multi core aware. However, we will look into adding these because a lot of people have been asking for them.
Like I said, when we FILMED this video just over a week ago it wasn't available for the boards we have at the office. However SOME boards appear to have now received a Turbo Game Mode option as part of the AGESA PI 1.2.0.2a Beta update.
@@HardwareCanucks Unless I read the charts wrong, benefit is is not that high (in my subjective opinion), and for that you must give up on all extra performance that's used outside of the games. This expensive CPU is not purchased for gaming in the first place, only to be crippled to 8c/8t, but even with default settings behaves pretty good in modern games.
Have you guys test on a 7600x too if it works? I still use a b650 Asus Strix with new Bios update i see Turbo Mode Problem is still i can't click ok to accept is there any other option i need to turn off.
@@HardwareCanucks question is which Board you Guys use, every time i will enabled Turbo Mode on Asus Strix B650 Board to test my self i get Window with Notice but cant click OK. the bios only freezes with this option, and i still run Version 3057 on ROG STRIX B650-A GAMING WIFI.
I do not overclock my stuff anymore. Back in the day during devils canyon my wife non overclocked i7 outlived my i5, and then few years ago the I 8000 series we just experienced the same thing. Just got the Ryzen 7700 and don’t plan on overclocking at all
@ open game, open process lasso... Find game in list, right click, affinity, always, cpu affinity When the new window opens click a CCD options and then click ok and your done Sure it is more involved but it also isnt because once you have done it once you can do it again without issues The issue with this 1 click game nuke is that anytime you want it on or off its a trip to the bios where as process lasso just automatically sets the affinity anytime you open the game or program
@@commanderoof4578 It takes like 20-30 seconds to reboot these days. If you have a 9950X, you finish your day job on that rig, you wanna play some CS2 so you reboot into BIOS, press one button to turn on Turbo mode, F12 to save and exit, reboot into Windows 20 seconds later you can launch steam and play CS2 faster. Then when you're done playing, reboot again and click to disable it and F12 to save and exit, ready for work tomorrow again with all your cores. This isn't 2002 anymore, you're not going to be spending 5 minutes for your machine to warm up and boot properly for the hard drive to stop spinning. We're firmly in the SSD era. It takes no more than a minute to do this and from the data it's well worth it, depending on the game of course. Why would I sit as a layman trying to work out process lasso and to do that for EVERY game individually, when I can just reboot and press one button in the BIOS and 30 seconds later my game runs better? It's a no brainer tbh.
@ process lasso takes what 20 seconds to setup for the game your currently playing and never needs touching again after that... Also it depends how much ram you have if its a pitiful 32GB or less the memory training part takes maybe 18 seconds and then 2 seconds to boot windows but you got 64GB or 96GB or even more then you aint going into the bios every bloody time Its a stupid setting that is negated by process lasso or other process affinity setting programs Also its a setting that makes plenty of games actually RUN WORSE!!
@@HardwareCanucks noone is posting their results with PBO enabled for the 9800x3d it's all stock and perhaps with smt disabled with these "turbo mode" toggles (accomplishing the smt in one click)
Who on earth plays at 800x600 with a 9800X3D, oh wait... CS Pros. That point aside. Regardless, it's done by HardwareCanucks to remove the GPU as a bottleneck and to display CPU performance.
SMT is simultaneous multi threading wherein a single virtual processing thread is created that's linked to each core. Thus, one core can functionally offer two threads CCD is a Core Compute Die that houses 8 processing cores. AMD uses a single Die in Ryzen 7 and 5 models and two of those Dies in Ryzen 9 CPUs which are linked via the Infinity Fabric. The IF is a link that ties together the various items in AMD CPUs.
@@derekschommer1465 oh nice, I don't really have an issue with temps though. only when doing like cinebench does it reach 90, but gaming and stuff it doesn't go past 60 with a bequiet dark rock 4 and some knockoff aliexpress ptm7950
@@derekschommer1465 oh nice, I don't really have an issue with temps though. cinebench yeah it reaches 90, but games it doesn't really go past 60 degrees on my be quiet dark rock 4 with ptm7950 from aliexpress :p
You think 8w power saving is significant ? Power usage is linear, 8w is literally nothing, especially below 100w. The difference between 71w and 79w is insignificant. You could turn off your RGB and save more power. It may sound crazy, but 300w vs 308w is kind of a big deal.
Correction. At 5:12 screenshots were mistakenly flipped during the edit. tRFC is LOWER w/ X3D Turbo Mode, tREFI is HIGHER. Sorry about that little hiccup. Realized a few seconds after posting live and I've added a Correction Card to the video as well. - Mike
I was looking and this and had a wtf moment. Good thath this comment is here.
Offtop, you can gain the same by just optimising your RAM.
Which memory kit are you using?
I was interested in this feature, if it worked per game/app, meaning if you could disable/enable smt /ccd per game/ app instead of just simply disabling SMT/CCD and lowering trfc/ increasing trefi .
But seeing that this is all it does, i'll stick with normal curve optimizer, memory oc with manual tightening timings to get better results.
also 3:40 the x870e Hero is called Crosshair for AMD. Maximus is for Intel.
This should be controlled by the OS, not the motherboard. The scheduler should know how the CPU behaves and balance thread accordingly
Yeah. This is a work-around for Windows' scheduler issues which, even after countless updates, still fail over and over again.
I'll never use this on my 7950x because I'll have to turn it on and off in bios 5 times a day
There is a program called process lasso that forces the CPU Affinity for games. so you don't need to do these brain gymnastics tasks to get better perf. windows Scheduler sucks but Process lasso is a permanent fix. its $32 lifetime license or if you don't have the means to buy it, you can always sail the seas
Or at least make the Task manager affinity persistent across reboots.
@@pedro.alcatra You can create a script for that but yeah, it's a bummer it doesn't work out of the box.
now they should return the turbo button just for throwback's sake.
We need this. Badly.
was thinking the same! Maybe get an old 1992 case
Activating turbo back in those days made CPU run slower though. It was just confusingly named feature :D
@@Rentta Technically it still does unless you're using it for its intended purpose. Multicore-heavy tasks will suffer from lack of SMT (just see Intels Core Ultra which is slower allcore than anything past 12th gen but faster in select games).
@@Rentta That's true, but turning half of your CPU off makes it technically slower as well. This is just not too visible in lightly-threaded applications.
Tested on all CPUs? The most interesting ones here would be the the dual CCD x3D chips and they aren't even tested.
honestly seems like a good feature to have if you KNOW which games to use it with. if something like this didn't require a reboot it would be far more practical.
One can hope that it can eventually be a button press to toggle between the two options.
@@OHWACHACHAahhh yess the good old Turbo button
Solution: for CPU in /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu[0-9]*; do; if [[ $(cat "$CPU/topology/die_id") -eq 1 ]]; then echo 0 > $CPU/online; fi; done
if it was intel they would have limited this mode to latest i9s and call it a day
If it was on intel everyone would dipsh*ting about its performace and call it a day
And they would then release i9ks 15gen with Turbo enabled just for this chip because no one can afford it but people would buy it anyways even if it cost 800$ and intel would swim in all that money.
@@policeman5768deserved.
Actually if it was Intel, they would have made it a monthly subscription service, for a low fee of just $20 per month.
Can you guys try this with the 7950x3D? The reason the 7950X3D is worse than the 7800X3D in gaming is because of the dual CCD setup along with CCD #1 hooging almost all the 3D V cache. With the Turbo mode it should be faster than the 7800x3D. Not because of the X3D boost itself but everything being scheduled on CCD0 with 128mb of L3 cache. Compared to the 7800x3D which has 96mb of L3 cache, the 7950x3D should have 33.3% more L3 cache shared across 8 cores on CCD0.
@Hardware Canucks pls try the 7950x3D next.
Each CCD of the 7950 has the same amount of L1 and L2 cache, just to be clear. These are only shown as double on 7950 parts due to the fact there are twice the number of CCDs, and the spec sheets show the sum of L1 and L2 on both of them. Disabling a CCD on the 7950x3d turns it into a 7800x3d with exactly the same L1, L2 and L3 cache amounts. We could absolutely not want the L1 and L2 of a second CCD shared over the infinity fabric!
with 7950x3d to have very good performance in gaming you need to activate the v-cache and you will see a massive improve in games and everything...i run 8 CPU on 5.5 ghz and the other 8 on 4.8 to 5 ghz and I must say temp are fantastic if you have watercooling and the outcome is wwowowowwowo....
The L3 is split, and one half gets the extra 64. So CCD0 has 96MB(32+64) and CCD1 has 32MB
CCD0 is getting the same amount as the R7.
What you may nbe thinking of is the 7900X3D vs the 7950X3D. It is getting the same L3 cache spread over 6 cores instead of 8 cores per CCD, so in instances where core scheduling is functioning properly the 12 core beats the 16 core in gaming.
@@douglasmurphy3266 The L3 isn't split on the 7950x3d, it is a single block on only one of the CCDs (that CCD being exactly the same as the 7800x3d's). Apologies if this was what you are already saying, I may have mis-interpreted the world "split."
What I meant to be clear about is that turning off a CCD in the 7950x3d turns it into a 7800x3d with identical L1, L2 and L3 amounts; it does not have any more cache in this mode. OP said "... everything being scheduled on CCD0 with 128mb of L3 cache. Compared to the 7800x3D which has 96mb of L3 cache." They would be identical, i.e., 96Mb of v-cache + 32MB of "regular" L3 in both cases. I hope that clarifies.
@WSS_the_OG Each ccd has 32MB of L3, this is the "split". The 3D vcache module is 64MB and stacks on one CCD. Every Zen 3 and Zen 4 X3D is this exact config of 32MB + 64MB linked on top for its only CCD or primary CCD in the case of R9.
keep on doing your stuff the way you want to. For me it's refreshing to see another approach to things. Thank you.
Great data. I know how hard you worked to do this. My only problem with ANY CPU data is that Windows is such a mess that it doesn't bench reliably anymore. You can have one Windows installation and it works great, then another same supposed version of Windows installed and it's worse with the exact same setup parameters. Until Microsoft sorts this out, I consider any CPU data basically impossible to grasp any definitive conclusion and that's not any reviewer's fault. It's not just a 24H2 vs 23H2 problem. Or even a Windows 10 vs Windows 11 problem, it's purely a Windows problem.
Good video , been waiting on some testings, but you guys should have included the 7950X3D as its both dual CCD with 8 cores and has 3D V-cache.
Awesome video, thanks for all the info. I just tested the turbo mode on my Aorus mainboard with my 9800x3d in 4-5 games and compared it to stock. I saw an uplift in every game. I'm gonna run it for a while and see how it goes
Which games?
@@HardwareCanucks Hey. I'll try to show the data as short and understandable as possible here in this comment:
Dragon Age The Veilguard - X3D Turbo - - Avg 153.1 FPS - Min 132.9 FPS - - Avg 165.6 (+8.2%) FPS - Min 140.3 FPS (+5.5%) ---
Remnant 2 - X3D Turbo - - Avg 174.0 FPS - Min 140.5 FPS - - Avg 185.2 FPS (+6.4%) - Min 160.7 FPS (+14.4%) ---
A Plague Tale Requiem - X3D Turbo - - Avg 198.8 FPS - Min 168.1 FPS - - Avg 206.8 FPS (+4%) - Min 166.6 FPS (-0.9%) ---
Hogwarts Legacy - X3D Turbo - - Avg 168.0 FPS - Min 137.5 FPS - - Avg 179.8 FPS (+7%) - Min 151.7 FPS (+10.3%) ---
I also tried Black Myth Wukong but couldn't get out of the GPU limit. The only negative number I got was the 0.1% Framerate in Dragon Age Veilguard. With X3D Turbo ON I saw there quite huge fps drops.
Why did you guys not show 7950x3d? That seems like a must to show.
Why?
why would the cpu that's worse than the 7800x3d at gaming and worse than the 7950x at multicore tasks be a must show
Thanks for the heads up, I don't have much of a reason to watch now.
That would be the processor to test in this, given that it was the poster child for scheduling issues back in the day.
@@VinmonoBecause it's better than both at being a well-rounded product.
@@leonfrancis3418 Exactly my point. It would help to show the viewer how a chip with two CCDs performs for a mode literally created to benefit that! If they were going to review a 7x3d chip, one would think that would be the one!!!
Mike is the best, thanks for the quality no BS testing!
MSI's version is called "X3D Gaming Mode".
Yeah was going to say. Got it for the X870 Tomahawk in the latest bios.
Does the x670 Tomahawk hás it?
Can confirm, I have the X870-P Pro Wifi
@@tkgg Nice! Have my x870 THawk and 9800x3d sitting next to me, just waiting for new cooler to be delivered and I can slap it together.
5:09 These images are flipped! Lower TRFC is better, and so is higher TREFI for bandwith and latency.
Yup. A correction card was added to the video and there's a pinned comment to. Totally a mistake on our part that happened when we moved the TEXT above the images but forgot to move the images themselves. :(
I know this will sound silly, but it's not clear - for the 9700X and 9600X, did you test turbo mode using the default 65W power mode or AMD's newish warranty approved 105W mode?
Out of box. Sorry for not being clear since I thought the Power numbers would make that evident. If we had tested in a modified way (105W mode), then it would have been clearly indicated.
@HardwareCanucks no problem, just wanted to be fully sure. Prob get the same mixed results either way at anyrate. And from what I understand, 105W mode doesn't really do anything for gaming. It does help a scotch with productivity though, and Turbo mode would certainly hurt that.
@@nukedathlonman If you unlock it and apply +200 in PBO the 9800 pulls 165W at full tilt...
@@dkindig PBO on the 9800X3D (assuming you meant that) is rubbish. See TechYesCity's video on it. Either you allcore overclock it properly, you just undervolt or leave it stock.
@@whohan779 Didn't ask you what you thought about PBO, was just saying that can push them to full power with no problem.
I'll let this mature, bake, a little while longer before enabling it. I'm glad that manufacturers are trying to give us more options for our configurations.
What brand is that sweater? Looks great, nice texture.
Haha. Its from a Montreal based company called Frank and Oak.
@@HardwareCanucks THANK YOU!
I'm not sure how much set up in configuration is involved with something like processor lasso, but it might be a good option for people wanting better gaming performance without losing all those threads for other workloads.
Ugh. Why would I want to turn off features of a CPU I paid for?
Testing on Linux shows almost no downside to SMT, so it seems like scheduling across virtual threads or second CCDs is more of an OS issue.
When these were originally announced I thought it sounded like just collecting multiple settings in one and I'm sad to see that's the case. Now if AMD could dynamically shift this capability outside of the BIOS and on a per title basis it would be a killer feature since for some titles using hardware limits work better than something like process lasso.
MSI has it. Its called X3D Gaming Mode. My x870e Carbon has it, but I get worse performance on my 9800x3d outside of games.
Interesting. At the time of filming neither MSI nor ASRock had it in the BIOSes we have. Guess a week or so makes all the difference. :)
Thanks for the insight
Ultimately this is a band-aid that cripples the hardware in some ways when it should really be the OS and/or game developers coding the software to dynamically query and use the NUMA architecture of the CPU it runs on. Unfortunately, the consumer space is well behind the enterprise space where some of this has been worked out already as software might have to deal with hundreds of cores across multiple physical CPUs (like a CCD technically).
wow warhammer total war loves something about those non x3d chips. Seems to b e one of the games even the default 9800x3d lost. But 800fps+- range is def pushing a crazy high point where even things like game engine limits can start to factor in.
Windows and games should be able to extract top performance from a CPU without manual test-tweaking per game basis. Are we going to need AI for this, or they will properly code.
Ironically, Ai would simply take more processing power.
great video! thank you :)
OK so these BIOS tweaks are 99% to mitigate the Windows scheduler. There's already software that can pin threads to specific CPU cores out there and "Ryzen optimized" games are supposed to do that by themselves. I've noticed that lowering tRFC is also beneficial on Ryzen 5000. It lowers DRAM latency quite a bit, but need thorough stress testing and a safety margin for increased temperatures (where the DRAM cells lose their charge faster).
Correct. Windows is shit. Tell us something we don't know. 🙃
@@HardwareCanucks ..win 98SE is OP
Soooo, what I am getting from this is to buy a 9800X3D whenever I can afford it to make a major upgrade to my system, no matter what the digital turbo button does.
What this really does, is marketing. This makes AMD set the discussion on hyper threading, not Intel. Like this very video. It seems like its real purpose, is to nullify the no-more-hyperthreading argument of Intel. As for all this complaining about AMD, just look at this vid. Insanely well played, making other other people do their marketing, for free.
To make this a really useful potential feature AMD needs to incorporate this into Radeon software so Turbo Mode can be enabled on a per game basis and not forced to be used all the time either on or off. A lot of people will not want to jump in and out of BIOS as their needs change. Putting this into Radeon software and allowed to be tied to specific games would make this much more meaningful in my opinion.
This isn't an AMD feature though.
@@HardwareCanucks well sort of, I mean it is based from a feature it appears was introduced in a base BIOS update from AMD.
I do get some of the "secret" sauce others are backing in could not be done this way, but the base system could be.
Pretty sure this isn't possible without a reboot, sadly the Windows scheduler tries to use everything it has available to it, rather than ignoring bits in software. Not to mention you couldn't get Gigabyte's aforementioned performance improvements in the video with memory timings without a reboot.
@@NANOTECHYT I understand, I am just saying the need to drop to BIOS, change it, use the PC and return the BIOS and change it again to do something else is just nuts.
This implemented so you can turn it on and off for specific app usage, thus using it when most effective only, would be a much more practical solution.
@@ELCrisler It already exists, it's an option in Xbox Game bar and it works exactly as you would expect a software solution to work, it works horribly and has none of the memory improvements Gigabyte has done which you need to manually do in the BIOS anyway. Perhaps it has improved since the 7950X3D launch where it was broken and didn't detect stuff properly, but I highly doubt it since this is Microsoft and AMD having to work together and Microsoft make awful software.
It takes 30 seconds to reboot these days, not 5 minutes like in 2002, so if you want to play a game, reboot into the BIOS, turn on Turbo mode, save and exit the BIOS and 20 seconds later you're on your desktop, you can launch steam and play the game you want and it works as intended. When you're done another 30 seconds later you've turned it off in the BIOS and you've rebooted. It's not that inconvenient. Get up while the computer is booting and get a drink and come back and you're on the login screen or desktop.
I agree in a practical sense, it would be much easier to have it just be an automatic software option or a toggle in Windows Settings or in the Properties of the .exe, but the reality is you cannot get faster memory timings without a reboot or retraining of the memory and even if you don't bother with the memory stuff, Windows scheduler is terrible and buggy where it does whatever it wants even when you set affinity with Task Manager or third party tools and software anyway. In essence, Windows needs a total re-design to meet the modern architectures that it's using.
i played with smt off with my 9800x3d and there’s a benefit with pbo and +200mhz where you can get it stable at max 5425mhz at bigger negative pbo settings. so for games that see benefit its very nice.
I have a dual-boot system, one OS for work and one for gaming. I'd love to have this option automatically turn on when booting into the gaming installation.
IDK how feasible it would be, if its even possible, but it would be nice if they could toggle this on for certain applications and off for ones where theres no benefits. Like Resizable BAR
Perhaps this could be added to the manufacturer's software stack. However, we recommend avoiding Armory Crate, Gigabyte Control Center, etc at all cost.
Well I guess it's a bit bad timing. Because ASRock just dropped their implementation of Turbo Mode just today
Yeah I think I'll add that to the corrections tab UA-cam has.
5:15 doesnt make any sense. Higher TRFC is higher latency and not lower. Maybe the pictures got swapped while editing?
Yup. There's a correction card as well as a pinned comment about it. We moved the text without flipping the images too. :(
This just seems like it’s a one click for people who don’t wanna mess with ram timings, overclocks, PBO etc.
Will it work on the Non-X 65w processors?
It depends on which motherboard but if you use an ASUS / RoG one, technically yes according to our conversations with the brand.
I dont think this should be the case with variable differences with different motherboards. Amd should incorporate this feature in their software. Even if it’s a motherboard feature amd can itself change the smt/clock speeds from the software and give similar experiences to all the users.
The Asrock version of this works on my R9 7900 non-x but the fact that you have to reboot every time is jut not worth the trouble.
i paid for the whole cpu - i'm gonna use the whole cpu
But in some cases using the whole CPU will hold you back.
@@HardwareCanucks jk, good video! i'm an AMD fan but still playing indies on a 2600X i'll upgrade somewhen next year so it's good to hear what they got coming
I really wish you'd have tested the 7950x3d
Saying the feature is a Russian roulette gives the impression if you “mess up” your system is gone. Maybe next time say “flipping a coin” either it works, or it doesn’t on a certain game.
UA-camrs and traditional media love to exaggerate and fear monger.
Thanks for the lexicon suggestions. It was more referring to the fact that if you turn it on, it could destroy performance in some titles. But sure.
At 3.37. Chart names are wrong. They have listed the ROG X870 as Maximus. Maximus is Intel boards. This should read Crosshair Hero
Yeah we listed a correction.
why does everyone avoid testing 8400f? I even have a great thumbnail for you - "is it really that bad?"
With a max boost of 4.7GHz, yes it really would be that bad in games. Not sure why anyone would want to spend all that money moving to AM5 + DDR5 just to sink a super low end CPU into it. At that point, LGA1700 + 12600K or AM4 + 5800X would be SO MUCH better.
Yeah This is a feature I am not going to use. I spend money for extra cores because I need the extra cores having to restart the computer everytime i want to go from gaming to work and vice versa is not a good solution. Windows and AMD need to fix scheduling for games this is not a good option. It would be different if you could do this in Ryzen master without going to the BIOS.
7 seconds in and you already whistled? "preview"
I've heard about lisps, but please wtf? control yourself
This sounds more like handicapped mode. Welcome to the 2020s marketing.
Also, from your task manager screenshot it also disables HT as you had 6 cores not 12
Yeah that's what I said. It turns off SMT as well.
@ so why use it? U may as well just twik the affinity and manually set to that CCD.
That way u actually gain more as windows can use the other cores for background processes.
Vs having 6 cores that do gaming and background
I dont understand why this needs to he a bios thing. In Linux you can basically do this at runtime with affinity settings. My desktop is a VM with PCI passthrough and its startup script pins its QEMU threads to a single CCD. I dont lock off the SMT virtual cores though. I presume you can do something similar in Windows?
You don't want it to be software based because then you'll be forced to install Armory Crate, GB Control Center, etc.
Where's that wallpaper on the computer behind you from?
Wallhaven. It's an amazing wallpaper.
I don't think this option is meaningful, and it certainly shouldn't be a BIOS option. Rather, the scheduler in Windows needs to improve.
Sure but until that point where the Windows Scheduler improves, hardware manufacturers are doing everything they can to properly up performance.
The 9800X3D ran almost everything better including DOUBLING the 1% lows in Spiderman remaster from 82 to 165 and used 10% less power on average. I will be turning this mofo ON on my mobo. I don't play Warhammer 3 or Starfield anyway.
I would test nonetheless.
It will be a forgettable feature unless it can be done directly inside OS environment..
You could just tune your ram sub-timings and get a much bigger benefit than doing this one click turbo nonsense
720p because the difference was so little?🤔
720p because it benchmarks the CPU without GPU bottlenecking.
This memory thing that Gigabyte is turning on, can it be done on the 5800x3d? I can't hear what he called it. Xbo high memory timing or something...
Where do u get 800 fps in cs 2 ? When i compete 1080p 440 fps average fps.. 800 fps do not exist how u test ? I have 4090 7800x3d. Build in benchmarks are not relative as real gaming.
We aren't testing built in benchmarks. We are testing in Dust 2 with bots.
is gigabyte good motherboard manufacturer?
My x870e taichi lite runs my 9800x3d all the way up to 5.7ghz all core just using pbo mobo limits. asrock has an early and not very descriptive turbo mode. Performance mode: Cinebench v1 & cinbench v2. guessing it's geared towards benchmark results. This cpu while hitting 5.7ghz in games will only go up to 5.45ghz in synthetic benchmark tests.
I hate these left and right graph layouts. Definitely harder to read than the standard bar graph to the right
Its so we can increase the amount of information and avoid long, pointless monologues. Then again, you can pause at any point. :)
Wow, that RAM runs hot! I run 6400c28 with GDM disabled at 1.55v and I've only ever hit 40°C+ while running hours of memory stress tests. I guess a fan makes a TON of difference.
Those of us who tweak our PCs have been using "turbo mode" for years! Lol.
Exactly what I said twice in the video :)
What's the point of buying a 16/12 core CPU if I need to half their core counts every time I want to game.. a lot of people buy the higher count cores to edit/stream WHILE gaming as well..
Because you have the high core count when you need it and the frequencies when you don't.
But the aorus turbo mode raised tRFC and lowered tREFI. That should net less performance not more performance. That doesn't make sense
@@tresnugget The images are just flipped
Yeah a few seconds after posting this live I realized the images were flipped in the edit. There's a Correction Card as well as a pinned comment about it. Sorry. :(
Wouldn't using process lasso be massively superior to this?
Technically, yes though much more involved from a setup and maintenance standpoint.
My rog strix b650e-f has new turno mode in bios when i updated it😊and yes was a big difference with 7 7700 non x
People want the actual FPS their system will have using the tech. Hence the shouts to put a real world resolution/settings combo.
>>> The relative performance of the parts will still be comparable to each other after all, so why not give a balanced system setup the spotlight?
This should have a button in ryzen master or something to tunrn on or off before gaming if the game makes good results with it. Going into bios and setting it off or on everytime is kinda lame tbh
It's not really worth getting anything past 8 cores for gaming.
Please do a video regarding PBO
We did.
I am not sure but I thought that I saw a turbo mode option on my asrock motherboard.
They just rolled it out yesterday LOL
Please use CPU bound games for benchmarking CPU's, i.e. stellaris/factorio
Stellaris and Factorio aren't CPU bound in a conventional way. Much like Rocket League and Flight Sim, they are single thread focused and not really multi core aware. However, we will look into adding these because a lot of people have been asking for them.
@@HardwareCanucks Correct, they are single threaded CPU bound specifically, that would be great thanks.
I don't think I'll ever play at 720p
The idea behind 720p is to reduce GPU bottlenecking and allow us to actually see which CPU is best.
How is this different from core parking via the xbox game bar? Is it pretty much the same?
Core parking is more dynamic. This is literally on / off.
@@HardwareCanucks ok ty
How about dual CCD ryzens with just SMT off? 32 threads are way too much for most games, while 16 real threads should be optimal.
You'd still get the issue we highlighted with some tasks being shunted to the second CCD.
So not ALL CPU´s!
All* CPU series supported. :)
Me with a MSI motherboard not getting turbo mode :')
Like I said, when we FILMED this video just over a week ago it wasn't available for the boards we have at the office. However SOME boards appear to have now received a Turbo Game Mode option as part of the AGESA PI 1.2.0.2a Beta update.
Good for valorant?
no, still can't hit 3000fps for normal gameplay on my 60hz monitor
Lmao they’re just low-key adding buildzoid RAM settings
All i hear is that some games lose performance, so its a no from me
Then you missed all the games that benefit from it.
Should let you Toggle on and off in software
No reason to turn it on on 9950x
I'd argue that's the CPU that most needs it.
@@HardwareCanucks Unless I read the charts wrong, benefit is is not that high (in my subjective opinion), and for that you must give up on all extra performance that's used outside of the games. This expensive CPU is not purchased for gaming in the first place, only to be crippled to 8c/8t, but even with default settings behaves pretty good in modern games.
Have you guys test on a 7600x too if it works? I still use a b650 Asus Strix with new Bios update i see Turbo Mode Problem is still i can't click ok to accept is there any other option i need to turn off.
Yes it works on a 7600X on the ASUS boards we've tested.
@@HardwareCanucks question is which Board you Guys use, every time i will enabled Turbo Mode on Asus Strix B650 Board to test my self i get Window with Notice but cant click OK. the bios only freezes with this option, and i still run Version 3057 on ROG STRIX B650-A GAMING WIFI.
Process Laso or equivalent app.
I do not overclock my stuff anymore. Back in the day during devils canyon my wife non overclocked i7 outlived my i5, and then few years ago the I 8000 series we just experienced the same thing.
Just got the Ryzen 7700 and don’t plan on overclocking at all
Well this isn't overclocking....other than what Aorus is doing to the memory and even that is a pretty "tame" approach.
what about CS2? is it usefull in this game?
We have a benchmark for it. ;)
@HardwareCanucks bring it on :)
9:32
Points at process lasso... just use that god damn it...
This is a one click solution. Process Lasso is a LOT more involved.
@ open game, open process lasso...
Find game in list, right click, affinity, always, cpu affinity
When the new window opens click a CCD options and then click ok and your done
Sure it is more involved but it also isnt because once you have done it once you can do it again without issues
The issue with this 1 click game nuke is that anytime you want it on or off its a trip to the bios where as process lasso just automatically sets the affinity anytime you open the game or program
@@commanderoof4578 It takes like 20-30 seconds to reboot these days. If you have a 9950X, you finish your day job on that rig, you wanna play some CS2 so you reboot into BIOS, press one button to turn on Turbo mode, F12 to save and exit, reboot into Windows 20 seconds later you can launch steam and play CS2 faster. Then when you're done playing, reboot again and click to disable it and F12 to save and exit, ready for work tomorrow again with all your cores. This isn't 2002 anymore, you're not going to be spending 5 minutes for your machine to warm up and boot properly for the hard drive to stop spinning. We're firmly in the SSD era. It takes no more than a minute to do this and from the data it's well worth it, depending on the game of course. Why would I sit as a layman trying to work out process lasso and to do that for EVERY game individually, when I can just reboot and press one button in the BIOS and 30 seconds later my game runs better? It's a no brainer tbh.
@ process lasso takes what 20 seconds to setup for the game your currently playing and never needs touching again after that...
Also it depends how much ram you have if its a pitiful 32GB or less the memory training part takes maybe 18 seconds and then 2 seconds to boot windows but you got 64GB or 96GB or even more then you aint going into the bios every bloody time
Its a stupid setting that is negated by process lasso or other process affinity setting programs
Also its a setting that makes plenty of games actually RUN WORSE!!
What about PBO???
What about it?
@@HardwareCanucks noone is posting their results with PBO enabled for the 9800x3d it's all stock and perhaps with smt disabled with these "turbo mode" toggles (accomplishing the smt in one click)
Who on this planet plays on 720p/1080p with a 600euro cpu?
Here we go again....😂😂
Those people are the strongest in the universe Goku
Who on earth plays at 800x600 with a 9800X3D, oh wait... CS Pros. That point aside. Regardless, it's done by HardwareCanucks to remove the GPU as a bottleneck and to display CPU performance.
Seen 12 fps fro. 80 to 92 4k with 4070ti super god of war ragnarok
That's actually better than I thought.
Whats smt and ccd
SMT is simultaneous multi threading wherein a single virtual processing thread is created that's linked to each core. Thus, one core can functionally offer two threads
CCD is a Core Compute Die that houses 8 processing cores. AMD uses a single Die in Ryzen 7 and 5 models and two of those Dies in Ryzen 9 CPUs which are linked via the Infinity Fabric. The IF is a link that ties together the various items in AMD CPUs.
process lasso
Nobody play 720p lol
Nor should they. However, this is a CPU benchmark which is why we test at 720p to ensure GPU bottlenecking doesn't cloud the results.
This seems like running your V8 engine on just 4 cylinders so you can race honda civics.
tell this to microsoft
its useless for tropical country since it will hit temp limit really fast even with default profile and $50 cooler
How so? It LOWERS temperatures.
hmm.. I should probably check if my 9800x3d has turbo mode on in the bios.. all I did after upgrading was turn expo and resizable bar on 🤔
Strongly recommend -20mw voltage curve preset if it’s there it dropped my max temp by 10 C in both cinebench and gaming with zero loss in performance
@@derekschommer1465 oh nice, I don't really have an issue with temps though. only when doing like cinebench does it reach 90, but gaming and stuff it doesn't go past 60 with a bequiet dark rock 4 and some knockoff aliexpress ptm7950
@@derekschommer1465 oh nice, I don't really have an issue with temps though. cinebench yeah it reaches 90, but games it doesn't really go past 60 degrees on my be quiet dark rock 4 with ptm7950 from aliexpress :p
@@PureRushXevusRyzen users are obsessed with temps for some reason regardless of if they're near throttling or not. Idk why lmao
It depends on which motherboard you have. With the latest AGESA from Gigabyte, Aorus, ROG & ASUS it should be there. Test it in the games you play.
720p???? WHY??? should be @ 1080p!
Its at BOTH. We even added headers above each set of results. :)
Nah man this is insane, it should be tested at 8K..
I feel like you payed scalpers to get your 9800s
Nope. We got one from AMD and purchased two from Best Buy Canada.
I don't have turbo mode on 5800X3D tho
its for am5
You can do all of this manually
As I said, you can manually do all of these items on previous generations. However, Turbo Mode is an AM5 exclusive...for now.
You think 8w power saving is significant ? Power usage is linear, 8w is literally nothing, especially below 100w. The difference between 71w and 79w is insignificant. You could turn off your RGB and save more power. It may sound crazy, but 300w vs 308w is kind of a big deal.
Many would celebrate 10% less power and 16% performance per watt improvements in some titles. Why aren't you?
i'm playing on 780m in fallout 4 1080p 120fps with ~15w...so i care about watts