Katherine Langford actually said that she wanted to stop playing Hannah after season 1 because she felt that her story was over. But Netflix was like: *NO* .
The show paints suicide as a means for revenge, which is emphasized by Hannah 'coming back' to be able to see the impact of her choice. Plus, the fact that the show got a second season, and is getting a third, shows to me people like it for the dramatic elements. That's fine, just call a spade a spade instead of pretending it's doing this great advocacy for mental health when it's causing so much damage and suicide contagion.
underrated comment if they just owned the shock value similar to the likes of game of thrones, a lot of people wouldn't mind the fact that it THINKS it's doing a superb realistic job while talking about these incredibly heavy themes, that's the problem.
Thank you! That’s one of the many issues I have with this show. Clay hallucinating Hannah, made it seem like she wasn’t really dead. When you commit suicide or die. It’s permanent, you’re dead. You don’t get to come back and see your little revenge fantasy play out
Just read the comments for any positive video about this show. Some people was even saying they should've had the school shooting happen for one reason or other which gives mny unfortunate implications
The whole "teen girl dies and the whole town and it's seedy underbelly falls apart" thing was done so much better in Twin Peaks. In that show, Laura Palmer was a sweetheart that had a bunch of problems in her life and her murder affected people because of her positive impact. 13 Reasons Why is built entirely on selfishness and stupidity.
What truly bothered me was the fact that, Hannah didn’t know which types of boys to avoid during high-school and she never closed her windows at night despite knowing she lived in a town full of toxic people; and somehow coming across as this somewhat intelligent girl!
@@dfquartzidn6151 we shouldn't pin it on Hannah who she should have avoided. Boys like Bryce shouldn't act like garbage humans regardless of who avoids them or not.
hannah was legit pushing every person who tried to help her or tried to be nice with her and she got sad about the fact that they didn't want to conversate with her when she was the one that didn't want their help to begin with. for example the principal tried to talk to her in the i think last episode of season one and she didn't want his help yet when she was walking out of the school she says no one was following her to stop her. wtf no one came after you because you did not care for anyone trying to help you.
I'm going to point out that Teen Titans (2003) handles it's sensitive subjects better, it's written for 7-12 year Olds. and has way more rounded characters.
DiGrassi JR high handled all of these topics and won awards for it 20+ years ago, but then agian those writers actually had talent while the hacks behind 13RW are idiots who should be ashamed of themselves.
Aaron Z - I have only seen season one, so I am completely ignorant about season 2. But I thought season 1 was bad, and even dangerous. It was basically telling kids that if they commit suicide, everyone will be thinking about them, talking about them, and all the people who've wronged them will suffer just like they did. That message is *extremely* appealing to depressed/suicidal kids, and that makes it an incredibly dangerous show.
this show is also the reason every girl in my school thinks it's cool to be depressed/suicidal *thanks 13 reasons why for basically shutting out anyone who actually has a mental health issue for people who fake it to be trendy*
ugh, agreed. It's chaotic where I live. Some girls here literally draw red lines on their wrists and post it all over snapchat like seriously, have some respect for people actually suffering from a mental illness
I agree with the first part but no one shuts anyone out who says they have a mental illness, fake or not. That's the reason people are able to fake it, they can just say "I'm depressed" and everyone will treat it serious.
"You don't have to have the same ridiculous backstory as Hannah Baker to feel suicidal." This summarises my problem with the show. Feeling suicidal can much less rational than that, and presenting this case as the case to start a discussion is just creating guilt for people who feel suicidal without much reason. Our brain is not always rational, especially when feeling depressed and suicidal. Just go and see the Ted talk on this.
kukicu YES! It reminds me of the dumb argument, “what do u have to be depressed about?” As if mental illness is a competition...like yes ur life can be be decent and u can still be affected by mental illness
Exactly! I know a lot of people who are clinically depressed, but have loving families and supportive friends. This show is making it seem like depression has to be triggered by something when it doesn't. You can be depressed and have a really good life. Sometimes depression just happens and your mental state can't handle certain aspects of regular day to day things such as school and work. This is essentially telling kids, "you're not bullied or have never been sexually raped? Then you have no real reason to be depressed." Like, people don't need a reason to be suicidal, sometimes people can't help the fact that they are more prone to depression.
I couldn’t agree more, it says a lot that people who have a really good life are often depressed where people who don’t have much are actually satisfied with life. There are so many factors that go into why someone feels a certain way and this show just misinterpreted everything about mental illness etc
I’ve had suicidal thoughts and I haven’t witnessed my friend been raped, been raped, or bullied. Nothing has happened to me like what happened to Hannah and I still have mental health issues.My life is pretty boring in fact and I hate that Hannah’s backstory is so excessive and dramatic. Things like that can happen to people, but you don’t need all that to be depressed.
Twilight's Edward ghosting Bella and giving her insane visions and shit was more carefully thought out and served as a far more interesting plot device compared to ghost Hannah in this dogshit of a series.
the thing about hannah’s ghost being there makes it seem like after you commit suicide that you can come back. once you’re gone, you’re gone. this is coming from a suicide attempt survivor. i watched this show when i was in a really, really bad place. it did NOT help. it is one of the worst representations of being suicidal that i have ever seen. sometimes you don’t have rational reasons for being suicidal. i watched this show and wondered why i was even suicidal. it made me feel like i should have a reason, and like i wasn’t damaged enough to be suicidal. this show is probably the worst show i have ever seen. fuck 13 reasons why.
When I was a kid in middle school, I was badly bullied. It got so terrible that at one point the powers that be decided that they needed to do something about it, being just a year after the Columbine Shooting. They sent the school nurse to my class and called me out. While I was outside the classroom she told the class that if they did not stop bullying me I would shoot up the school one day. This understandably was a bad idea. The bullying got so much worse after that, with me constantly getting asked if I was going to shoot up the school. It was truly horrible and the terrible events that happened afterwards where I was falsely accused of saying something threatening because of a sarcastic response I gave to that repeated question. Although I was later cleared, it came very close to ruining my life forever. This show promotes the same viewpoint that the nurse had. It does not increase awareness but rather it turns victims into targets for even more judgement and ridicule. It paints them as a potential enemy and ostracizes them from the help that they clearly need.
I can relate to that WAY TO DAMN MUCH.(Yes I know that rn my pfp is of Dylan Klebold, but it's irrelevent) I was picked on a little bit freshman year, and then some wiseguy decides to make a joke or two about me being a school-shooter or a terrorist. After he made a few jokes people decided to spread the rumor that I'll actually kill a bunch of people(it being a largely Black and Hispanic school did not help my case) till I started going to the office for disruption in classes cause people couldn't stop joking about me shooting them, then the problem just grew and grew. One suspension turned into two, three, and more, the students their also got more creative and started blaming vandalism and destruction of school property on me. Unfortunately for me, this resulted in leaving me with two options: leave the school and become home-schooled, or:stay in public school and not pass any classes given to me and suffer bullying and false accusations to the point where I'll never leave the office again. I chose to leave and drop out, now my social life is going down the drain. It does help my mood to see that I'm not exactly alone, and I'm glad you managed to live through it.
Yeah, sorry to hear that happened to you, and I am glad that hearing my story helped. Being homeschooled doesn't mean you have to give up social life forever though. There are homeschool groups that meet up your parents can help you get involved in. Honestly though once you graduate high school, get out of your hometown for college if you can. Trust me, it can make a big difference on your perspective.
orus inanga; i think of a stanza by eminem “i am whatever you say i am”. They almost made a school shooter out of you and would have deserved it. Of course i cant believe everyone was involved though and it seems like most shooters just kill whoever is there instead of going after a hit list of scum the earth is better off w out.
If i were you i would have mentally tortured them with the most quite and relaxing voice as possible and sacrificed them and send their disgusting souls to hell.
to be fair that's one of few connective things about her being suicidal. people who suffer from mental health issues will often push others/potential help away because shit like depression makes you believe that you either don't deserve it, or makes you behave self-destructively in other ways. overallshowstillshittho.
@@CatBeenToHell no, depressive people won't let push you away instantly. In an emotional way you're right, but it's not like depressive people don't have friends
@@shirunda9190 But if that's the case either way it doesn't justify them expecting you to stay and blaming you for not doing so, especially if you don't give insight on your illness.
While watching Pretty Much It's commentary of Season 3 I found that scene creepy because it looked like Bryce's mother was about to have sex with him and I thought they'd pull cliche "He was molested by his mother and that's why he's a rapist" shit. He was a rapist because he was a spoiled brat who thought being rich and on a football team meant he could get away with anything.
Listen they tried to show you more of Bryce then just him being a rapist Then allows you to think if he could have gotten better At least that's what they were trying to fo
What bothered me the most was that Hannah “came back” and interfered with Clay’s life. When someone is dead. They.are.dead. They’re not coming back. Sorry but every time she appeared I was annoyed
With your opinion in mind, I'd love to hear what your thoughts are on a show called 'Six Feet Under'. The show explicitly deals with mortality and death, and has some characters who are dead; imagined by the main cast.
Well to be honest, it's pretty much a way to have Clay arguing with himself more. Dear Evan Hansen does the same thing with Connor Murphy but infinitely better and makes it clear it's in Evan's head. It's implied that Clay has schizophrenia but none of his symptoms while hallucinating really lines up with what hallucinating is actually like, so I totally get the hate. I got extremely annoyed too.
Teenager don't need something to relate to. They are intelligent and are able to think themselves into the position of someone else. Sadly the characters in this show act total illogical and not like a real human.
One of my friends back in the day was obsessed with this show. She'd say "It's so cool, it's about suicide and killing yourself!" And once I even heard her "jokingly" saying "They make it look fun." She was 11.
That terrifies me. Not many things scare me, but this does. Suicide? Cool? An eleven year old? This is horrible. No, I'd go so far to say it's DANGEROUS. A hazard to humanity.
I don’t like how there is a ghost Hannah, somewhat keeping her “alive” and you can talk to Hannah, but the truth is once you commit suicide you can’t see everyone’s reaction that you’ve avenged. Once you’re dead you’re dead, there’s no going back
In my perspective,there was no ghost,it was just Clay's thoughts about her.And he needs to make a fantasy "friend" to talk to ,to share his thoughts,like he is not alone,to fool himself that he still has Hannah. You know what I mean?
@@Папа-п4о no.. i dont know what you mean, because children may watch this show or people with mental illness may watch this show. they may not understand that once you're dead, you're dead. in the show it kinda seems like hannah committed suicide to get revenge on all of her "friends" and to see how they react which kids dont understand. i once read somewhere that people who commit suicide and are in the middle of falling to their death regret it. people who have mental illness and have suicidal thoughts, or children who watch this show may not fully understand mental illness and suicide. the people who made this show honestly disgust me for their portrayal of suicide and mental illness. also im definitely not a professional so take all of this with a grain of salt. I'm 14 and really dont want more people getting hurt from this stupid show, bc ik how dumb us teenagers can be. suicide and mental illness are both super sensitive topics and the creators should've tried harder to portray them correctly
@@para-yw9dn I think you were trying to reply to the person above(Ccray).However I don't think that directors were trying to say that the suicide is the only answer and the only way you get revenge to the people who hurt you.But it was just many times that they portrayed all of this pourly.For example,in season 2 we see hannah's "ghost"( I believe it's just Clay's thoughts)very happy and smiling a lot in S2 as she found peace,like she is leaving happily now,she is in paradise and has no problems.As a result of you see the show and if you are in a desperate position,you think suicide is the only option to get away from this.But the reality is when you die,you die,there's nothing,from my view.
13 reasons why acts like theyre really helping someone by showing extreme graphic sexual assault and suicide. people always say "if it triggers you just dont watch it!", but if the people the show is trying to "help" cant even watch the show, its obviously not helping.
Rachel Rayburn it didn't target people who needed help. It targeted people who didn't, so that they could think more on their actions and how it affects the people around them. I'm not saying it's perfect. But it has, as funny as it may sound, started conversations. A study by Northwestern university has showed that many people reached out to those who they may have hurt and apologized. It gets way more hate than it deserves if you ask me. It's just a show.
john smith the creators aren’t making a “show”, they’re “trying to start a conversation”. It’s offensive. It’s trying way too hard to act like it’s some “big brainy boi” and tries to claim that it’s above every other TV show on Netflix. It’s delusional. It tries way too hard to claim that it’s some white knight acting for the greater good.
Person Person a toxic “conversation” that has only led to pissed off people who actually have taste and understand what these issues are actually like. This show is the literal embodiment of ignorance.
Bojack Horseman is an infinitely better portrayal of mental illness on Netflix and I hate that people consider this a good show or a good portrayal of the subject because it's dreadful
It's another Netflix original that is set around a washed up sitcom star from the 90s trying to get his life together in some form, and not lose the little he has left. It's really good and I recommend it highly.
I think this show was actually very dangerous. There was a sexual assault with a broomstick that... took inspiration from the show. It happened at a school near my city
I remember I had come back from the hospital, was home, having lunch and when it came up, I couldn’t eat anymore. It was so graphic and disgusting...I had nightmares bout it for days, couldn’t eat for weeks. And to know that this show cause someone to be inspired to assault another human irl is disgusting. I hated this show but now I can’t stop but hating it more.
@@jiminjams52 I hate this show for reasons cuz it's just bullshit, but I don't agree with the whole inspiring thing. if someone's gonna rape someone they gon do it, I don't mind the graphic shit in this show, I find it quite amusing, what I don't like is the whole Hannah bitch telling clay to fuck off and then crying cuz he left and killing herself like a little bitch. If someones gonna kill themself it's their choice but if it takes a dumb show for you to do it then you're a Fucking idiot.
That attack wasn’t inspired by the show... they might have said that it was but this has been done repeatedly amongst males... it’s a very vile attack but 13RW did not come up with this.
Apparently, Netflix contacted a psychologist who knows a lot more about suicide prevention than they do, and he advised them to make some drastic changes about the story before releasing the first season but Netflix made him understand that they didn't want to make all those changes. Suicide prevention centers specifically stated that the way this show portrays suicide as a revenge will inspire many depressed teenagers to kill themselves in the same fashion. And indeed, many teenagers did. This show is the embodiment of "wokeness". Self-absorbed pricks pretending that they care about an issue just so people will give them a pat on the back even though they are actually causing more harm than good. it doesn't matter that others are feeling really bad as long as you can make yourself feel good.
NewBenCity For the sake of argument I'm going to pretend that the show is just a pure copy of the book. Netflix could have listened to the psychologist who told them that there were many problems with their adaptation. Just because they didn't write the base story doesn't mean they are immune from criticism for willingly making a show that is very harmful for their very target audience. NO one obliged them to adapt the book. Also, changing elements from the book is not a sacrilege that would doom their souls for eternity. saying 'the book is like that" doesn't excuse the fact that they deliberately made a harmful show just for money, especially when they pretend that their end goal is to help the very people the show is harming. There were definitely a lot more viewers than readers of 13RW, and visual media has a lot more impact, therefore, the show had a strong impact on many more people. Furthermore, your point isn't even relevant because there are things that they changed from the book just for shock value. Hannah doesn't graphically cut her wrists in the book. Suicide prevention centers recommend not to show graphic portrayal of suicide as it usually inspires suicidal people and triggers them. The book portrayed her suicide in a more adequate way. This change clearly shows that the makers of the show didn't even bother looking up the stuff they were trying to "start a conversation" about, they just wanted shock value for money.
that's something not talked about as often but I agree with it. Like yes you would have outbursts if the guy or girl you loved killed themselves but not to this point lsklsk
I tried to start the conversation with my boyfriend. I told him 13 reasons why is stupid. He said I don't know why you're telling me this. I said because I'm starting the conversation dammit
Personally, I found Hannah herself very unlikeable, mainly because she's a real hypocrite. She goes on and on about "bullying" and how mean everyone is to her, and it's mostly exaggerated - I mean, come on, she wants to kill herself bc Zach steals a few notes from her (E7)? The thing is: If she feels petty things like that affect people so much, then why is she doing similar (and worse) things herself? E.g. her *constant* jokes about Clay being nerdy. Or way worse, witnessing another girl's rape, doing nothing about it and then making the story about that rape available for possibly the whole world to hear on the tapes. Or making Clay, who - in her own words, "doesn't belong on the tapes" - fear and quiver about what he could possibly have done until he gets to hear his tape. ... The list could go on forever. Hannah also expected everyone else to read her mind and made everything about herself, which was incredibly annoying. Examples: When she told Clay to "get the fuck out", he gets the fuck out, and got his own tape for not reading her thoughts (E11), or the scene in E13 where she wanted Mr. Porter to mysteriously know what's on her mind and follow her.
I read the book back when it first came out and vehemently hated it for all the reasons you’ve stated. It’s disgusting victim complexing and trash, so I stayed far far away from the show
I thought i was the only one but you described what I was thinking the whole show . Watching someone get raped not doing anything, then making you rape as shook moment was so hypocritical to me ..
minus the rape, her reasonings were so miniscule, and having her kill herself due to them was so irresponsible and dangerous. It didn't start a conversation, it had the potential (I haven't seen if it actually has) to cause more suicide attempts over other miniscule things because not everyone watching a show like this has a stable mental state, and most are impressionable. The same way in S3 they try and get the audience to forgive Bryce, all because he was going to change, like it's so toxic and irresponsible. I had a girl ask me "Have you never made a mistake?" regarding the Bryce topic, after I said the plot was wrong to redeem him, and I just- 13rw really taught it's audience that serial rape was a mistake. I'm so angry that this show exists, and that the way people defend it is by calling mentally ill or victims 'sensitive' because they're actually concerned for people's mental health and wellbeing. It's just another production profiting off dramatising and glamorizing mental illness and trauma. S4 really fucked everyone's characters because the creators literally don't give a fuck about them.
Oh yeah, I found it really hard to like Hannah at all. She screwed up several people who didn't even do anything wrong. What one stopped talking to you (Jessica), another got embarrassed when you did a blatantly stupid thing (Zach) and the other left when you told them to (Clay)? Better screw up their lives and mental well being by leaving vindictive tapes blaming a literal death on their laughably minor actions. It's the old suicide note thing. People only really leave them either to reassure certain people it wasn't their fault or to hurt those who wronged them (Generally disproportionately hurting those who cared about them the most) Hannah is at the latter of the two which is and always will be just a dick move.
I feel like this is the type of show when at the end they're going to have Clay wake up next to Hannah and she's alive and it was all just a dream. That would make more sense than ANYTHING in the show.
That is actually more creative than what they did. I can picture it in my head: clay opening his notebook and stick figure Hannah starts talking to him. Maybe he uses the notebook to see Hannah when he's feeling down or doesn't know what to do, and he is heart broken when he is told that it's just a hallucination.
One of Hannah's tapes encouraged people to throw rocks through Tylers window, bully him, and just caused all of the events that escalated into him being a potential school shooter, while all the other people on the tapes had each other and all their other friends to rely on and keep them from talking about the tapes. I'm not saying any of that excuses him stalking her, but it just reinforced my theory that she made the tapes for revenge more than anything else. To me it just seemed like the tapes and the suicide were forms of revenge for her. The show doesn't feel like it portrays mental illness well at all. Clays parents are told about his hallucinations and they literally did nothing about it. They made the school counselor out to be "useless" and "at fault" because Hannah refused to talk to him but expected him to run after her. Hannah is an awful character. She had an awful personality. That doesn't mean she deserved the bullying or what Bryce did to her, but those tapes were nothing but pure revenge.
Hannah is just a bad person. No one should ever feel like they have to kill themselves, but it makes it hard to feel bad when the person that died was such an asshole
@@Xehanort10 It's the "if I go down, I'm taking you all with me" mentality, tbh if you were about to die, wouldn't you want to cause some chaos? I'm damn sure I'd be up for that, idk why people are against revenge, I find it the best option.
@@akithefull Revenge is about making sure people don't go unpunished for wronging you and making sure they don't do it to anyone else. Apart from Bryce the people Hannah mentioned on the tapes had little to nothing to do with her eventually killing herself.
@@Xehanort10 agreed, but if the chick was about to kill herself, why not ruin as many lives as she can, you can't lose anything since you're gonna die, so why not ruin everyone else?
Whaddya mean? I once had a very pleasant conversation with my classmate after he came to school with an AR-15 to murder me and the rest of the people there. Nice guy, shame FBI SWAT shot him
Hannah Baker: Nobody loves me, I can't recognize the love that's around me, I've never had any love, I'm starving emotionally and I must end things because the trauma doesn't stop Hannah Baker in season 2: I actually had a popular boyfriend and was happy for a bit.But when that ended, THEN I never had any love or affection. Suicide is a terrible thing and no one deserves it. But Hannah Baker (as we've seen by the fact that she made literal intimidation tapes) is not that great of a person (and neither is the guy who helped to distribute them)
@@ModelNumbers I would never say that. The thing is, the show tries to paint suicide as a thing that people fall into due to depression, but she actually ends up doing it a bit out of spite, which contradicts this idea. Hannah Baker is not a good person, which is too complex of a message to pin on a suicide character with the way the show is being told. They could've told a story about suicide that was nuanced and good, but instead we got that garbage.
Hannah was the exact sort of girl who deserved to never have happiness because she was a total piece of shit to everyone yet expected everyone to kiss her ass.
@@Hammerhead547 Guess you never were an assh. as a Teen then? Most Teens are unlikable and dumm. Its hormones and bad parenting that make it even worse.
The funniest thing about the last episode was that Clay should've been dead. I mean if you think about it Clay took some nude photographs of Tyler and send them around and I can't really remember if he even made a sincere apology towards Tyler. So for him to run out the building towards the man he hurt who is there to kill everyone who hurt him is the stupidest shit ever.
Fake Name it’s stupid if they’re already there with the guns and you know they don’t like you and you gather everyone up and say “don’t call the cops”. In real life Clay would’ve been killed and Tyler would’ve easily killed a lot of kids before the cops came. You don’t just run up to someone with a loaded gun with the intent to hurt people and try to reason with them.
TetyanaKufta it’s not that stupid when you really think about it, though. sure, clay did some dumb shit to tyler but so did monty. at least clay actually looked sincere about what he did and nicely persuaded him to not shoot anyone.
@@assmilk9674 It's extremely dangerous. You don't know what goes around someone's mind when they decide to commit acts such as shootings. Yeah, it's a show, but in real life people should NEVER attempt this. What's more likely to happen is that they'll shoot anyone trying to stop them, proceed to kill as many as possible and then off themselves. Those people don't need just any help, they need professional help. Sorry for long reply.
that one girl who burned the evidence of bryce at the end made me want to scream. i don't know what trauma you could have gone through to let a literal rapist get away with everything he did, to make all of the other girls live with it for the rest of their lives. if she didn't want them to know about her, she could have just taken her polaroid out.
I know this comment is a year old but I have to also agree. Like she doesn’t feel comfortable sharing her story but what gives her the right to take away anyone else’s?
Lmao that was the only realistic part of the show to me, it felt like something a petty teenager would do. The fact they conveniently had photos of rape with evidence was ridiculous though.
"Let's make a list of social issues people get irrationally emotional over, and build a TV show around it! People will inevitably talk about it, and we can say we're 'starting a conversation' to deflect any accusations that we're capitalizing on real-life tragedy and hardship!"
The line that killed me was the Principal of the school saying " I've never met a woman in my life that hasn't been sexually assaulted or harassed " ....what?
some people define sexual harassment as "any unwanted touching" which means that anyone who has been shoulder bumped as they pass someone is a victim of sexual harrassment
Sexual harassment includes being told inappropriate comments of a sexual nature that are unwanted. To me, I'd only define myself as being sexually harassed if AFTER I told the person to stop and they didn't, they groped my body unsolicited, they molest or rape me. All I'd say are sexual harassment.
To anybody who has just a basic understanding about mental illness this show is ridiculously insulting. As Alex, great video by the way, already mentioned: the cases of various kinds of mental damage being inflicted on the characters in the show are all unexceptionally illustarted in a very one dimensional way. This is not how depression works. This is not how schizophrenia works. This is not how psychic drives work.
@@alexandrabrown068 i didnt say they portray it as a good thing. I said They glorify it. like Hannah was making a sacrifice, its tragic but only thing she could do. I havent watched the show but i did read a good bit of the book. In the book Hannah PURPOSELY puts herself in a position where she would get raped so that she could hate herself enough to take her life. After reading that I threw the book in the garbage.
@@alexandrabrown068 To portray suicide as a good thing you do not need to stare at the camera and say those exact words. Psychologists told the creatores to avoid certain things in a piece of media focused on suicide, but they ignored it all, hence all the backlash. First off, the whole concept of the show is a weaponization of suicide, showing a girl killing herself to get revenge on those who did her wrong. This TV show shows suicide as a revenge mechanism instead of a desesperate attempt to end pain. The pure concept of the show is already disrespecting two of the rules set by psychologists. Do not glorify suicide or show the suicide message, if there is one. Even worse than that, the show also brought Hannah back from the dead as an hallucination so that she could see the damage she caused on those around her. That does not happen when you kill yourself. You cannot see the impact of your suicide. You are dead and you do not comeback. Second off, showing Hannah slitting her wrists for pure shock value was one of the worst decisions ever made. Psychologists warned the creatores that, if possible, they shouldn't even tell the way she killed herself, but the show went one step ahead of that and showed her on the act with some of the most graphic and disturbing images I have ever seen. The whole show keeps saying that mental ilnesses do not define you, yet most of the characters are defined by their mental illness. When you put a serious and real theme, such as suicide and insert it in a fake setting, such as a high school teen drama, with fake characters, people will not relate to them and will likely feel more alone than they felt before watching the show. This problem of fake settings and characters can be seen in Hannah, that is the absolute opposite of what a suicidal person should be, and she is portrayed in the absolute opposite way that she should be. First off, her character is absolutely defined by her mental illness, because that's her function for the plot and nothing more, again, portraying people as nothing more than their mental illness is glorifying it. She is hypocritical as hell, narcistic and a total drama queen for the whole show. She complains about bullying all the time in the show, although (through the tapes) she bullies two people into suicide attempts (Clay and Alex). These two people who treated her very well throughout the show, especially Clay, who did nothing more than leave when she told him to. Also Hannah let her friend Jessica be raped and did absolutely nothing about it, not during it and not after it, which is so fucking stupid. She blames everyone for what happened but herself. And yes, Bryce raped her, but the decision to commit suicide is yours and yours only. You cannot blame other people for your decision and doing it through tapes the way she did is the most disgusting thing ever. She killed herself to get revenge and haunt some very nice people for the rest of their lives because of something they did as teenagers, while others did not do nothing at all, such as Clay or the school psychiatrist. You can't possibly wait that people relate to a character if you make her this hypocritical and awful to everyone. I hope I explained to you some of the ways this show encourages suicide, through it's glorification, weaponization and romanticization of suicide. TO ANYONE ELSE READING THIS, DO NOT WATCH THIS SHOW. WHETHER YOU ARE OR NOT SUFFERING FROM SOME KIND OF MENTAL ILLNESS, THIS SHOW IS EXTREMELY DANGEREROUS AND YOU SHOULD NOT WATCH IT.
Delivery man Q / How did Hannah make it seem like she was a sacrifice? And how is showing exactly what suicide is like glorifying it? I know the book is different but there’s a reason they changed it in the show, so how is the show problematic with it?
I cannot BELIEVE this show was cleared for a season two! Honestly, this show poisons the mind into thinking suicide is okay, and in fact there have been SEVERAL copycat suicides after this shows release. I have attempted to take my own life MANY times. Once by trying to overdose on Clonopin, and I would have succeeded if it wasn't for my mom texting me saying 'Hope you get home safely' as this was after the family reunion in Nashville where I was molested by one of my uncles. I forced myself to vomit up everything in my stomach. I did not have to go to the hospital to get it pumped or anything. Upon arriving home I hugged my mom and told her what happened and how I felt. She was very happy I did not succeed in my suicide attempt. That day forward I attempted to cut everything negative out of my life, I did not succeed. HOWEVER this year I went to go see a play called 'Every Brilliant Thing' where the main character narrates how his mom had depression, and that not wanting to end up like his mom, he decided to make a list of 'Every Brilliant Thing'. He continued to do this throughout his life until one day the list reached one million things. After I got home from that play I started typing up and writing down all the things that made me happy, that are wonderful. I am currently at 130 and my goal is 1,000. I suffer from severe depression and making this list, working on it everyday, has TRULY made my life brighter. I've become more optimistic, don't let negative things effect me, and maintain a happy demeanor. This list technique may not work for everyone but it most certainly has for me. Try it, it may help.
Here’s one, Dirt. It may seem really weird, but I’m really glad dirt exists, I mean, think about everything that we wouldn’t have without dirt. It just makes me happy that it’s there.
Exactly. They tried to brush it off as a "Stuff like this happens in real life" thing which it does but very rarely when the scene was really just a "How can we shock people? We'll have Monty and his mates shove a broom up his ass and rape him."
Even The Sopranos (a very graphic show meant for adults), which had a similar thing happen to one of its characters after it is discovered he is a homosexual, handled this with more care. It is described in detail by the people who did it, but even Tony, who is obviously not a very soft guy himself, is repulsed, horrified and even moved to tears when he hears about it. But is is never shown or visually hinted at. And that was more than enough.
Netflix: LEt's make _!3 reaosns why_ Mental health experts: Worried Netflix: Seaosnn 2! Mental health experts: www.psychiatry.org/newsroom/news-releases/international-coalition-of-experts-issues-an-alert-regarding-release-of-13-reasons-why-season-2 Netflix: What about season 3! We are great, we are talking about important stuff! HOW HARD IT IS TO UNDERSTAND!
My boyfriend almost killed himself. He was battling depression and they act like having depression is cool and trendy. They think they are battling the problem but are fueling the problem.
What I NEVER got about the show is this: if you have or know anything about depression, you know it's an irrational force. This show tries SO SO hard to force rational reasons behind what the characters are motivated by that it just stops making any logical sense and yet they all just....roll w it.
Fr though. Depression is a lens that alters a sufferer's perception of reality and sense of self. Things that are unreasonable for healthy people may seem reasonable. Things that are reasonable may seem unreasonable. It's like they're trying to tie up loose ends, but they're tying them to the wrong anchor. A depressed person's anchor is not the same as a healthy person's. We aren't grounded in the same reality, objective as that reality may be.
Snapchat Seb.gay99 I agree, sometimes there are reasons but they didn’t even stick to that way of thinking to explain her suicide. Hannah killed herself literally right after she was raped, which actually happens a lot when rape victims don’t get any support.....but they didn’t even explain it that way, the whole reasoning is how everyone she knew contributed to her suicide (hence the tapes) which is just stupid. So, while I do agree with you that there are reasons why people do commit suicide sometimes, the show’s logic is just all over the place.
As someone who has been hospitalized for mental illness, including suicide attempts, I hated 13RW. Something that really got to me was the 'Hannah Ghost'. The point of suicide is that the person can't come back, they can't watch things go right, it's a permanent decision that you can't take back. Hannah being able to come back and hear and see things others meant to say to her completely erased the seriousness and permanent-ness of suicide. She died not knowing who cared for her and loved her, she died with so many questions and doubts and worries. She CAN'T see them be resolved because she's GONE. Another issue I had was the simplicity and dumb-down of symptoms of depression and someone at risk of suicide. 'People may change their physical appearance- *cuts to Hannah with short, stylish hair*'. People dealing with depression sometimes don't even shower or brush their teeth, but no, that's too gross for this 'hard hitting' show. A styled bob was their best attempt.
i hadn't even thought of that. i guess i considered "hannah's ghost" as an incredibly inaccurate depiction of a psychotic episode. but god, that makes it even worse.
Thank you for saying this! As a child I was religious about cleaning my teeth but as I grew older and depression got worse I went two weeks without brushing my teeth, an entire week without getting out of bed except when I was forced to, etc. It's disgusting! :( I hope you're doing better.
To be fair, going to therapy is a very difficult step for many people, even for these who are at their wit's end. But it definitely could have been a subject this show tackled. Not edgy enough though, so they skipped that. Instead, here's a link to some shitty website.
They do. Clay, Tyler, Bryce, Alex and I’m pretty sure Jessica did. It’s also an important point that irl sometimes people fail to get therapy when they should so that only causes more problems. They’re being realistic.
As someone who deals with depression, suicidal thoughts, and self harm this show insults me. People don't kill themselves as revenge, they kill themselves because their thoughts are so intrusive and scary they give in and do what they say. For a show that's supposed to bring awareness it's very incorrect.
The over complexity is very frustrating. I used to think I need a big sad tramautic back story for me to feel sad I used to believe I could feel without some big tramautic mess.
it's more ironic how most of the people who watch "13 reasons why" are mostly the same type of people who would bully their schoolmates just like in the show.
Tommy Wilson He said that MOST people are. He didn’t say that everyone who watches it could be a piece of crap. And he’s probably right anyway, 99% of the people who I know watch this show are bullies who get all confused when someone calls them about it.
I cannot stand how they make everybody but hannah seem responsible for hannah’s suicide even people who really cared and tried/wanted to help like mr.porter
In the book they do a much better job at showing the reasons why she decided to end her life (the whole point being why she did what she did and what led her to that decision) and if I'm remembering correctly, Mr. Porter writes off the signs she exhibits and doesn't exactly reach out to her. Also they end the book nicely with the protagonist taking the signs Hannah showed and noticing them in a classmate and befriending them in order to prevent another person from repeating Hannah's actions. He regrets never really befriending Hannah and having him befriend someone else who seems to be heading down the same path is a great way to wrap up the story and the main protagonist's character arc. I highly recommend reading the book. It's more suspenseful and different from what the show, not to mention they dont mention how Hannah commits suicide or describes it.
ambie the show wanted to take a more serious tone the book Hannah was more selfie and out for revenge and the person who made the show didnt wanna take that route
Possible spoiler for the book: I haven't read it myself, but doesn't Hannah actually survive in the book? Look everyone thinks she does, but she actually survives her suicide attempt or something? I thought one of my friends told me that.
OF clown / what did they do to offend pro choice ppl? Cause I’m pro life and obviously saw it as offensive but it seemed to be pro choicers would love what they did with it
Alexandra Brown I’m pro choice but I thought it was offensive because it delivered like a personal attack on pro-lifers, which does nothing but stir up anger on both sides. I felt uncomfortable with the way they portrayed pro-lifers as The Bad Guys™, like they‘re anti-choice and nothing else, because obviously the abortion debate is a lot more nuanced than that. Most pro-life advocates I’ve met aren’t driven by a desire to control women but by a genuine concern for human life and I feel like the show isn’t interested in portraying both sides of the matter sensitively and objectively. It’s an arrogant decision on the writers’ part. They intentionally, blatantly antagonized the pro-life movement and diminished it into basically a cartoon villain, and in doing so, made the pro-choice movement look like the jerks in real life. There are no villains and it’s irresponsible of them to insinuate that.
I Cloud / Totally agree. You’re the first pro choice person I’ve met that says they realize that pro lifers aren’t just a bunch of ppl looking to control women’s bodies and that it’s actually about the child. Now statically I’m sure there are people like in this video and guys who don’t want women having the choice regardless of what’s right or wrong. But I’m glad someone out there can be on the other side and still understand what the mass of the PLers are like. I like this show a lot but I really feel like they just included this storyline to make people happy with seeing their side of it and portraying PLers as heartless monsters when in fact from what I’ve seen they always keep their distance at clinics and don’t scream at people going in.
I envy you. I used to be like you until my sister and our cousin dragged me into watching the second season with them. We had fun laughing at the show, but still. I could've done without it.
the only good character in the entire show was the Counselor(forgot his name), because unlike all the other adults he actually realizes what went wrong, and that he could've done more to help. however, the show still botches this up, because the depiction of depression/suicidal thoughts with Hannah Baker is completely unrealistic.
@@alextorres4667 She's just a selfish person that wants attention and revenge on everyone that did her wrong. Some of the things that happened to her were her own fault, especially the Clay situation. She could've reached out to Clay but nOO, she told him to go away and then complained that he left her. Poor Clay is now (maybe) suffering from schizophrenia. She had no symptoms of Depression, any forms of anxiety, any personality disorders, etc. It makes no sense, seems she just decided so quickly that she wanted to die so she recorded a few tapes and slipped her wrist.
The "bullied kids become school shooters" thing is so tired and untrue. The vast majority of school shootings aren't conducted by victims of bullying but by bullies themselves, since it's a way to cause the most suffering while getting shitloads of attention, especially since the American media gives so much attention to the shooters, justifying their actions and borderline glorifiying them. The "bullying" they expeirenced, if any, is that nobody liked them because they were shitty to people. You don't go from being a total punching bag to being a mass murderer, most people have to build up to that kind of violence. Victims of prolonged bullying may dream about being able to get that kind of 'revenge', but are much more likely to kill themselves than anybody else.
Got some links? Because most of the most 'famous' ones were in fact outcasts who were bullied. Columbine. The recent one, Parkland iirc? Violence is innate. Effective bullying isnt just violent, and people can just snap. Anyways, yeah, people would make excuses as to why they bullied someone. "Oh they were mean. They were terrible. He was weird." He was probably shitty because he was bullied for years. I knew a kid like that in high school. Total asshole to everyone, but he was a really nice guy once he let his guard down.
@@CaptainLekirk The Columbine killers *were not* bullied. That was a narrative the media came up with. One of the killers moms (Dylans I think?) has even given a Ted talk saying her son was relatively popular, had lots of friends, was involved in school, pretty smart, etc. It was an easy narrative for the media to use to explain why two people would do such a horrible thing (which at the time had never really happened before in the US) was that they were bullied and outcasts, but in fact they were relatively normal kids, even popular kids, that were just massively fucked up.
The hypocrisy of the series is maddening. Season 1 is about how Hannah's suicide is everyone's fault (everyone, of course, except for Hannah). Season 2 is about the mother of Hannah, who didn't see the signs of her daughter's suicide, suing the school for not seeing the signs of her daughter's suicide.
Ikr. Literally there are flashbacks of her ignoring and insulting hannah casually. She is the mother for God's sake. The school has to look after 100s of kids you just had your own daughter.
Someone said that the only thing Americans love more than guns is suing over every little thing, and holy shit that's accurate. Seriously what's with these American shows and suing being the first thing a character does when something goes wrong? Especially over something as vague and intangible as the motivations of a teenager's suicide
You know why I hate this show? It does the whole "You need trauma to be suicidal" thing. Sometimes perfectly happy people struggle with suicide and they don't know why. But don't talk about it because then they're told they have nothing to be suicidal over. It's bullshit ( Oops I commented too soon. IHE mentions that at 10:14 )
Elisa Castro I'm not sure how to respond to that argument. By that logic, pretty much no one who isn't homeless and starving should be allowed to be suicidal. You can just fuck right off with that tbh
Elisa Castro Do you think it's coincidental that the highest rates of suicide in the world belong to the first of the first world countries? And I am talking about people of mature age with successful careers and all. Clearly you have no idea what the fuck depression is.
Elisa Castro I have to agree with the others. Mental illnesses don't care how much money you have or how good your life is. They're ILLNESSES, they don't pick and choose.
As someone with severe depression, I think that this series portrayed and executed depression in such a poor manner, that it’s a bit laughable and it makes people with actual depression kinda look bad
DoggySporty Doesn't mean it can't be done right. BoJack Horseman provides a good look at how depression can be destructive while something like Oyasumi Punpun presents a realistic yet entertaining look at what it feels like.
There was this guy i used to be friends with. He loved this show, and would always try to convince me to watch it. He knows I have depression + was uncomfortable with the idea of watching this show. He had a relative who was bipolar, so he thought he was some mental health expert. He thought 13rw was super deep and an accurate portrayal of how a suicidal person acts?? It was so fucking annoying.
@@denisdukaj I actually just recently ended things with him. Him wanting me to watch the show was honestly the least of the problems we had while we were friends. He was an all around shitty person who denied doing anything wrong when I confronted him about it. I was upset about losing him for a couple days, but I'm so glad I did it.
@@coachstopframe Congratulations, a toxic relationship is something that all of us don't want. Anyway, just try and have a good life. Some people with mental illness aren't that simplified, I have something that sometimes don't give out emotions and always lost interest at people after some time and I don't really have a problem with it. And I agree that you should watch Bojack Horseman, it's pretty good.
What I don’t understand is why the parents never pulled the kids out of that damn school! The school clearly doesn’t do much to prevent bullying. Clay told his parents he wanted to move and his dad says “But this is our home” . And Tyler had no friends and everyone hated him but he still wanted to go back to the school like wtf?!
Not everyone can afford private school, Not everyone wants their child in private school or home school cause they want their kid interact with normal people.
That means new school fee which means it affects the family budget managing mortgage, groceries for the family, gas money etc. If none of those are an issue then moving to another school is ideal but remember none of the parents really have a problem with the school except Hannah's parents cause the others didn't know what was going on.
Jack Carver school fee? If its a public school then they don't pay for tuition, America doesn't seem to have uniforms and its not college, so you wouldn't need to buy textbooks. I'm not American so could you please elaborate on what 'school fee' his family would have to pay (assuming there are other schools close enough that they don't have to move)
@@andreasmeelie1889 She got into a relationship with Bryce despite knowing he was a rapist and thought him being a human being justified him raping people. And despite only being introduced in that season she somehow knew everyone and was treated as if she'd always been there.
Owl the Commentator idk. I need at least one story with someone with more interesting problems. Not saying she can't have depression, but they try to make it seem like her depression comes from having a "tough life". It's dumb
The only thing good to come out of this season was the fact that Gus Dapperton made a song for the soundtrack. But it’s forced in the background for 10 seconds in a cafe scene. The man made the song in 24 hours in a van while getting pulled over multiple times for police inspections and the song was barely used
ok, but like it was 13 Reason’s Why responsibility to market the fuck out of it? Like yea his situation sucks, but there are SO many songs in that show. I doubt they put that much research into every one
RissasOcean nah it’s just a fantastic song that could’ve been used to amplify a dramatic moment instead of background of a cafe scene. Missed opportunity on the shows part
It's such a relief to see other people take issue with this show. I think the overall portrayal of suicide as a means of revenge is beyond harmful. It just perpetuates the childish fantasy of "I'll kill myself and then everyone who treated me wrong will be sorry." It completely erases the finality of suicide and death.
GhostGamer PL how are you so stupid? It's seriously astounding. How does she use it as revenge? Well let's try to think really hard ok? Oh wait it's really simple... she uses tapes to lash out at people and the fact that she killed herself naturally ups the stakes or perceived validity or her claims. Feel free to look up the definition of revenge though since you're still in grade school and likely haven't learned that word yet.
I read somewhere that when the author originally pitched the story to a publisher, Hannah had faked her death to watch people cry over her, but the publisher said that was way too dark and made him change it to be a tragedy about suicide. Except he basically just changed it so she actually died and the tone of the story (Hannah being fucking evil) remained the exact same. Now you just feel kind of bad for hating Hannah because she died, but you were always supposed to hate her because she’s written as a shitty person whose “death” was a ruse to sadistically torment people while she watched. That’s a big part of why the show sucks so bad. Hannah is evil and was never intended to be played as pure.
I thought that the author originally had Hannah run away then decided that suicide was a much better option. What you said is news to me where did you see that?
1. Funny 2. Incredible cast 3. Continuity 4. Consistent 5. Characters that are easy to care about 6. Realistically portrays grief 7. Realistically portrays drug addiction 8. Realistically portrays mental disorders 9. Realistically portrays LGBT characters 10. Todd 11. Will Arnett as BoJack 12. Asexual character 13. Doesn’t try desperately to not offend anybody watching Boom, 13 reasons.
It's funny you mention the behind the scenes because in another scene, Jessica says something along the lines of "I'm not a perfect victim because I'm black" basically disregarding the other rape victims emotions. The actor said in the behind the scenes that that's her favorite line, but one of the representatives of sexual assault said "well no one is a perfect victim" basically shutting her down. It's pretty funny how even when the professionals are telling them "no that's wrong" they still don't listen.
I watched it before the trigger warnings were added and omg was I upset. They should take that show off, there is no reason it deserves to stay on Netflix. They don’t portray mental illnesses correctly and it romanticizes mental illnesses that are so serious and important. After season one I never continued watching, season one was terrible and genuinely made me sad and upset and not for the storyline.
I've never watched this show, but it strikes me that Bojack Horseman is a way more entertaining, accurate, realistic, incredibly creative, and respectful exploration of mental health issues, mostly without ever even mentioning the name of the mental illness afflicting the characters. All we see is the consequences. Not to mention it's absolutely fucking hilarious. Edit: You mentioned it, lol. point still stands.
I'd given up on this show just for season 1. The show makers ENTIRELY missed the point of the book it is based off of, instead opting for shock value. I think that nothing better demonstrates this than Hannah's suicide. In the book, she overdoses on pills (legitimately so that her parents won't walk in on a horrifying scene--how ironic), but that isn't visually graphic and shocking, so they made her slit her wrists instead. There was no reason to make that change other than shock value. I actually really liked the book because the message was ultimately "what you do can have a greater impact on others than you realize, so be a little kinder" and "pay more attention to those around you because you never know who needs your help." The main lesson Clay learns is how to spot the signs of a suicidal person. I really knew the show messed up when after season one came out, a thousand Instagram accounts centered around what a perfect couple Hannah and Clay would've been popped up. In the books, at least as far as I can remember (it's probably been 6 or so years), Clay realizes that Hannah wasn't as great as he thought she was and is wrong in her logic. The fact that the series ended with the sentiment of what a perfect couple they would've been underscores how the show greatly romanticizes suicide. Just because something handles a controversial topic doesn't make it good.
TheSkyHazCloudz It definitely romantacised suicide, which was disturbing, especially since teens are this show's target audience. The show did have good moral messages, like about rape, bullying, etc, but it just didn't know how to deliver them to its target audience. What a wasted opportunity.
The other good thing about the book is that because we get a lot more of Hannah's voice you can kind of tell she's depressed, rather than just being bullied. Like when she gets in the hot tub with Bryce it's very clear in the book that she's given up and doesn't care about herself at all so the scene makes a lot more sense
Brian Aguilar That logic makes no sense. Anyway, you'd be surprised. Many may not go through with it, but the idea of "getting back" at those who've wronged you by committing suicide is a very real thought.
Yusuke you didn’t even prove me wrong. Are you saying suicide IS a valid form of revenge? Because that’s a disgusting way of thinking and a horrible message to send to teenagers.
It's baffeling how a series claiming to raise awareness of mental health issues casually allows Clay to have scizophrenic conversations with a dead girl without EVER addressing it as a serious case of mental illness.
Loffeleif He’s more Psychotic than Schizophrenic. He only speaks to Hannah hallucination, and no other ghosts or whatever, so I think Psychosis is probably closer
And wouldn't him imagining kissing his Hannah hallucination in reality be him masturbating to thoughts of her? He's having a wank to thoughts of a dead girl which is disgusting.
Thank you for this honest, well spoken review. This show is a trainwreck. The first season was barely tolerable. They aren't trying to "start a conversation". They are using sensitive subject matter to generate emotional reactions so they can make a profit. It's tactless. There's a way to use topics like suicide, rape, drug use, and bullying to raise awareness but they've gone and turned it all into an incomprehensible, jumbled mess. After the horrible rape Hannah endured, Season 3 wants us to feel sympathy for Bryce the Rapist...the writers can literally fuck off.
Congratulations to the show for making thousands of teenagers think they're an expert on mental illness and now compare everyone and everything remotely connected to it with this show
There was a spike in younger kids attempting to kill themselves (and/or actually succeeding) after the first season. Some even cited the show as the reason they finally made the decision to attempt suicide. If your show handles suicide so poorly it *encourages* people to do it you should not be *allowed* to make a second season.
(im just gonna leave some explination here is anyone is interested) "After the first season showed a graphic three minute scene of the lead character's suicide, researchers used Google search data to track trends relating to the show and self-harm practices. The phrase "how to commit suicide" rose 26 percent above the expected rate. However, searches for "suicide prevention" also increased by 23 percent after the premiere. The paper, published in the Journal of American Medical Association, also found suicide hotline searches rose 21 percent. The shock value, gory details and mysterious nature of Hannah Baker's suicide is what kept viewers binging, but it's also where Butler draws the line between awareness and glamorizing self-harm. "13 Reasons Why" centers around Baker leaving messages for her classmates and features flashbacks to her in both seasons. This creates a dangerous portrayal that suicide is not final, Butler said." -Moore, Lindsay Journal and courier
Nope. Its a quote taken from the Journal and Courier from an artical written by Linsday Moore, I ust left it here in case people wanted to know what the above coment was possibly stateing or implying
“Expect abortion to one of the ‘conversations’ for next season. Cant wait to see how terribly they handle that one” You were so right, anyone who watched season 3 knows 💀
I deal with depression and anxiety every day, so much that I almost decided to end my own life at one point in time. I take medication now and I've gone through counseling and therapy to get myself back up again. This show is terrible at representing depression and anxiety. It's almost insulting to be honest.
These characters they have reason's, you don't know the guy that typed that comment personally maybe there is a reason for him and he diesn't want say. Whats the point they missed?
there doesn't always have to be a reason for people to be depressed or commit suicide. Clinical Depression is like cancer, you cant cheer up or get to feeling better on your own. and you can feel like shit even if everything in your life is going good. may he rest in peace, but Robin Williams is a good example. loved by millions, wealthy, successful but he still hurt. what they missed is that sometimes people kill themselves and there is no reason. sometimes it comes out of the blue. sometimes there are warnings, but in other cases the person is there one day, and is gone the next. the show also romanticizes suicide quite profoundly, which could lead to people suffering from depression or other maladies to decide to end there lives.
No but these specific characters do like a a lot of people, you would be surprise of how many people go through trauma and brush it aside and keep moving. Using Robin Williams is a bad example cause you don't know him personally, , he weren't around him 24/7 and I have heard other stories too like him taking drugs and stealing jokes, and aside note comedians are the most depressed celebrities spread joy dosen't mean you have any. The people who just "develop" depression that you refer to have no cause and effect then there is story, so there is no cautionary tale they just need help from doctors.
you are still missing the point. there doesnt have to be a reason. Yes people experience trauma. but the message SHOULD be that people who are suicidal seek medical attention. as for unattractive actors, beauty is rather subjective. but anything with reese witherspoon and danny devito i suppose.
I absolutely hated this show. I myself, as well as my family on my Dad's side have suffered through depression that is linked to genetics. Unfortunately at some points in my life I have thought about suicide (not realizing I had severe depression) and gone without help, I had attempted 3 times before asking for help and on top of that I self-harmed through middle school and a portion of high school. This show is nothing like my experience with this mental illness. When I planned to kill myself, I never even thought of reason why and why not. It didn't matter. All I wanted to do was escape the pain I felt, I wrote a long note of apologies, but I never even thought about questioning my decision. It was horrific to watch how the portrayed the characters like it was a really long thought they had about it, when in reality the anger and sadness and fear builds up inside of you until you just snap. I was perfectly fine through the "shocking" scenes, I never really learned any empathy for people, but I could see why people would or wouldn't like them. I felt the whole school shooting thing was very strange, but mainly I was confused about why they executed it the way they did. But like most of this show, none of it really made sense. I hate it when people say "Stop trying to get rid of the show! You need to see this to understand these mental illness's!" when in fact, when you ask real victims of rape, school shootings, suicide, bullying, self harm, etc., they say that the show is complete bullshit. Hell if you even ask a professional, they say the same thing. I feel most of the people who are backing this show like that, either have suffer something they didn't cover, have never suffer any mental illness, or overexaggerate their illness to the point that you can't be sure they even have one. I could go on forever about this garbage, but I think I have said enough. I hate 13 Reasons Why.
Didn't know that depression is passed through genetics, if that is the case then I got it from my father. We are both sometimes emotionless, and even though he died when I was 3 I could tell just by looking at the pictures of him. He just have this neutral face and I have done this the same way, I just force myself to smile most of the time. Anyway, hope you live a happy life and I'm so glad you decided to get help
Yeah this show was HUGE where I’m from. I live in a small town where there’s little to do, so Netflix is a popular option for most. I overheard girls in my class talking about how “real” it was. I was actually excited to watch it because I really wanted good mental health representation. Off from the start it felt really fake just from the fact that it had reasons as to why they try to commit suicide. The only time I ever tried to come up with “reasons” was when I’m brutally questioned by my parents about why I’m like this and just come up with stuff on the spot that had been bothering me at that point. All in all, it really is just irrational behavior after just a build up of a lot of stress that just manifests itself in the worst way imaginable that you can’t even think straight. I remember back a year and a half ago I tried to kill myself by taking pills after getting into a fight with my sister that turned physical. At that time, I was having constant depressive episodes and my mom and step dad were domestically abusing each other to the point the police were involved and I could barely do any schoolwork. There really is nothing rational about suicide and I can’t believe how misinterpreted it is. Hell, I’ve been called a crack addict that wants to be diagnosed with a “fake” mental health disorder(ADHD), so that I can take Adderall (which I don’t I take Vyvanse) And just the other day that same group of girls told me that Bipolar Disorder and Split Personality Disorder are the same thing. However, I really do hope that you are in a better place in your life rn.
Wow. Thank you all for the comments... I didnt expect this to get as much attention as it did. In any case, I am doing better than I have been. Thank you for sharing your stories, it means a lot to know that there are actual people out there. I hope you all have an amazing day.
Do you ever think about how Glee handled a school shooting better than this show "sTaRtInG a CoNvErSaTiOn" ever did? like for real. And the characters sung three songs in its episode!
Really says something that a musical series and an animated show about a talking horse portrayed real issues far better than a supposed "serious drama."
After watching this, I went and relistened to Jeremy by Pearl Jam, which is a song about a kid who shot himself in front his class because he was bullied at school and abused at home. It pretty much conveyed all the themes that 13 Reasons Why is trying to tell, and I'm really disappointed that a 2 season-long show treats these issues with the same or arguably less depth as a 5-minute grunge song.
And Jeremy was about both the student who committed suicide in front of his classmates and another student that Eddie Vedder knew who shot up a classroom during school.
I legit did a school project on how problematic romanticizing and normalizing suicide can be in the media with this show as my main focus. There has been copycat suicides from this show as well as several people who killed them selves after watching despite having improved in weeks prior. This show lost all of my respect once I learned it deliberately disobeyed professional advice that told them that this could lead to additional deaths and glossed over these casualties of their carelessness
Jesus Villa www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/535518/ And also www.google.com/amp/s/www.refinery29.com/amp/2017/06/158168/13-reasons-why-copycat-suicide-tapes-peru
If you want to watch a Netflix original that tackles some real issues in a creative way, and that feels like each mistake the main character makes has huge consequences, watch Bojack Horseman.
Katherine Langford actually said that she wanted to stop playing Hannah after season 1 because she felt that her story was over. But Netflix was like: *NO* .
BUT KATHERINE. IT'S SO WE CAN START A CONVERSATION.
@@definitelynottommywiseau3037 The writers don't care about teens, they just want to exploit them for money
@@definitelynottommywiseau3037 "sTarT a cOnVeRSatIon"
BOOMOO 201 it was based on a 200 page book they should of ended it in season 1 or make it a movie like it should of been
The whole thing should have ended in season 1 and season 2,3 could’ve been a completely different show, it would have still made for good television
The show paints suicide as a means for revenge, which is emphasized by Hannah 'coming back' to be able to see the impact of her choice. Plus, the fact that the show got a second season, and is getting a third, shows to me people like it for the dramatic elements. That's fine, just call a spade a spade instead of pretending it's doing this great advocacy for mental health when it's causing so much damage and suicide contagion.
underrated comment
if they just owned the shock value similar to the likes of game of thrones, a lot of people wouldn't mind
the fact that it THINKS it's doing a superb realistic job while talking about these incredibly heavy themes, that's the problem.
Thank you! That’s one of the many issues I have with this show. Clay hallucinating Hannah, made it seem like she wasn’t really dead. When you commit suicide or die.
It’s permanent, you’re dead. You don’t get to come back and see your little revenge fantasy play out
Just read the comments for any positive video about this show. Some people was even saying they should've had the school shooting happen for one reason or other which gives mny unfortunate implications
"Lucky, my scars are all on the inside."
I've never cringed so hard in my life. Jesus Christ.
Nate Hladki I’m really shitty at reading and I thought that you were quoting Jesus Christ for a second.
@IchGebMeinenSenfDazu lol
IchGebMeinenSenfDazu
Haha interestingly enough I think John 6:66 is a verse that says people think Jesus is crazy and leave him
You too?
“WAKE ME UP INSIDE”
The whole "teen girl dies and the whole town and it's seedy underbelly falls apart" thing was done so much better in Twin Peaks. In that show, Laura Palmer was a sweetheart that had a bunch of problems in her life and her murder affected people because of her positive impact. 13 Reasons Why is built entirely on selfishness and stupidity.
Male Tears twin peaks is a gem
Don't you dare compare it to this garbage
Degrassi did it good too
Veronica Mars S1 too
What truly bothered me was the fact that, Hannah didn’t know which types of boys to avoid during high-school and she never closed her windows at night despite knowing she lived in a town full of toxic people; and somehow coming across as this somewhat intelligent girl!
@@dfquartzidn6151 we shouldn't pin it on Hannah who she should have avoided. Boys like Bryce shouldn't act like garbage humans regardless of who avoids them or not.
Hanna: “get out “
Clay: * gets out *
Also Hanna but on the tape : “ he left me “
Nuh Hax Bru *PewDiePie is on your side, he found it very unbelievable.*
Nuh Hax Bru know one knows what your on about
@@captainmadoli4498 He's talking about The Poop Situation didn't you follow?
Welcome to women.
hannah was legit pushing every person who tried to help her or tried to be nice with her and she got sad about the fact that they didn't want to conversate with her when she was the one that didn't want their help to begin with. for example the principal tried to talk to her in the i think last episode of season one and she didn't want his help yet when she was walking out of the school she says no one was following her to stop her. wtf no one came after you because you did not care for anyone trying to help you.
I'm going to point out that Teen Titans (2003) handles it's sensitive subjects better, it's written for 7-12 year Olds. and has way more rounded characters.
Well difference îs the titans only had one another. They were all freaks in a way. (I like to mention I haven't watched 13 reasons why)
DiGrassi JR high handled all of these topics and won awards for it 20+ years ago, but then agian those writers actually had talent while the hacks behind 13RW are idiots who should be ashamed of themselves.
fuck yeah man 🤘🏾
And it was actually interesting
Hell most kids shows from did better than this one story wose
This show might as well be called "Suicide: That'll Show 'Em!"
Calvin Lee. Or "Suicide Squad" is that name taken?
I get it; because it's awful, like suicide squad.
I mean, the whole point of season 2 was to show that her suicide was the wrong choice
Aaron Z - I have only seen season one, so I am completely ignorant about season 2. But I thought season 1 was bad, and even dangerous. It was basically telling kids that if they commit suicide, everyone will be thinking about them, talking about them, and all the people who've wronged them will suffer just like they did. That message is *extremely* appealing to depressed/suicidal kids, and that makes it an incredibly dangerous show.
And that's the biggest problem with it.
this show is also the reason every girl in my school thinks it's cool to be depressed/suicidal
*thanks 13 reasons why for basically shutting out anyone who actually has a mental health issue for people who fake it to be trendy*
Basically all the fans. Act like they care and know so much about mental illnesses
but it's all about STArTinG a COnversATiOn!
ugh, agreed. It's chaotic where I live. Some girls here literally draw red lines on their wrists and post it all over snapchat like seriously, have some respect for people actually suffering from a mental illness
shadow 626 lmfao my life story 😒
I agree with the first part but no one shuts anyone out who says they have a mental illness, fake or not. That's the reason people are able to fake it, they can just say "I'm depressed" and everyone will treat it serious.
"You don't have to have the same ridiculous backstory as Hannah Baker to feel suicidal." This summarises my problem with the show. Feeling suicidal can much less rational than that, and presenting this case as the case to start a discussion is just creating guilt for people who feel suicidal without much reason. Our brain is not always rational, especially when feeling depressed and suicidal. Just go and see the Ted talk on this.
kukicu YES! It reminds me of the dumb argument, “what do u have to be depressed about?” As if mental illness is a competition...like yes ur life can be be decent and u can still be affected by mental illness
Exactly! I know a lot of people who are clinically depressed, but have loving families and supportive friends. This show is making it seem like depression has to be triggered by something when it doesn't. You can be depressed and have a really good life. Sometimes depression just happens and your mental state can't handle certain aspects of regular day to day things such as school and work. This is essentially telling kids, "you're not bullied or have never been sexually raped? Then you have no real reason to be depressed." Like, people don't need a reason to be suicidal, sometimes people can't help the fact that they are more prone to depression.
I couldn’t agree more, it says a lot that people who have a really good life are often depressed where people who don’t have much are actually satisfied with life. There are so many factors that go into why someone feels a certain way and this show just misinterpreted everything about mental illness etc
I’ve had suicidal thoughts and I haven’t witnessed my friend been raped, been raped, or bullied. Nothing has happened to me like what happened to Hannah and I still have mental health issues.My life is pretty boring in fact and I hate that Hannah’s backstory is so excessive and dramatic. Things like that can happen to people, but you don’t need all that to be depressed.
This. This right here. Thank you.
His name is clay because the writers are morphing him into whatever idiot they need in the moment.
Liam Vic clever
Liam Vic lmaooo
Quartermaster lmao I read the book mate.
OH SHIT
I like you
Twilight's Edward ghosting Bella and giving her insane visions and shit was more carefully thought out and served as a far more interesting plot device compared to ghost Hannah in this dogshit of a series.
I hate that this is true
Finally something that isn't a better love story than twilight
Wait... this comment is accurate...? The hecc?
s i m p l e b l u e s it's so true it's sad
I hate to say this, but it's true...
the thing about hannah’s ghost being there makes it seem like after you commit suicide that you can come back. once you’re gone, you’re gone. this is coming from a suicide attempt survivor. i watched this show when i was in a really, really bad place. it did NOT help. it is one of the worst representations of being suicidal that i have ever seen. sometimes you don’t have rational reasons for being suicidal. i watched this show and wondered why i was even suicidal. it made me feel like i should have a reason, and like i wasn’t damaged enough to be suicidal. this show is probably the worst show i have ever seen. fuck 13 reasons why.
Thats a great point. I'm sorry you went through all that. Fuck this show
rangerstationlegion ong this shows is messed up
Stop blaming the show warns you if your no in a good place right now don't fucking watch it
Stop blaming the show. The show warns you. If your not in a good place right now don't fucking watch it.
Omg, that's not even what happened. Clay is hallucinating. She's not a ghost.
When I was a kid in middle school, I was badly bullied. It got so terrible that at one point the powers that be decided that they needed to do something about it, being just a year after the Columbine Shooting. They sent the school nurse to my class and called me out. While I was outside the classroom she told the class that if they did not stop bullying me I would shoot up the school one day. This understandably was a bad idea.
The bullying got so much worse after that, with me constantly getting asked if I was going to shoot up the school. It was truly horrible and the terrible events that happened afterwards where I was falsely accused of saying something threatening because of a sarcastic response I gave to that repeated question. Although I was later cleared, it came very close to ruining my life forever. This show promotes the same viewpoint that the nurse had. It does not increase awareness but rather it turns victims into targets for even more judgement and ridicule. It paints them as a potential enemy and ostracizes them from the help that they clearly need.
I can relate to that WAY TO DAMN MUCH.(Yes I know that rn my pfp is of Dylan Klebold, but it's irrelevent) I was picked on a little bit freshman year, and then some wiseguy decides to make a joke or two about me being a school-shooter or a terrorist. After he made a few jokes people decided to spread the rumor that I'll actually kill a bunch of people(it being a largely Black and Hispanic school did not help my case) till I started going to the office for disruption in classes cause people couldn't stop joking about me shooting them, then the problem just grew and grew. One suspension turned into two, three, and more, the students their also got more creative and started blaming vandalism and destruction of school property on me. Unfortunately for me, this resulted in leaving me with two options: leave the school and become home-schooled, or:stay in public school and not pass any classes given to me and suffer bullying and false accusations to the point where I'll never leave the office again. I chose to leave and drop out, now my social life is going down the drain.
It does help my mood to see that I'm not exactly alone, and I'm glad you managed to live through it.
Yeah, sorry to hear that happened to you, and I am glad that hearing my story helped. Being homeschooled doesn't mean you have to give up social life forever though. There are homeschool groups that meet up your parents can help you get involved in. Honestly though once you graduate high school, get out of your hometown for college if you can. Trust me, it can make a big difference on your perspective.
What the actual fuck,
orus inanga; i think of a stanza by eminem “i am whatever you say i am”. They almost made a school shooter out of you and would have deserved it. Of course i cant believe everyone was involved though and it seems like most shooters just kill whoever is there instead of going after a hit list of scum the earth is better off w out.
If i were you i would have mentally tortured them with the most quite and relaxing voice as possible and sacrificed them and send their disgusting souls to hell.
If they cancel Shrek 5 it'll become 14 reasons why.
Dr . Wub no dont say that you cant stop jesus
Despacito 2 is coming out so that's technically 0 reasons why amirite
They***
Dr . Wub is that real?
SO SAYS THE USER OF THE SANWITCH AVATAR
Hannah: im so lonely
Clay: hey
Hannah: leave me alone
to be fair that's one of few connective things about her being suicidal. people who suffer from mental health issues will often push others/potential help away because shit like depression makes you believe that you either don't deserve it, or makes you behave self-destructively in other ways.
overallshowstillshittho.
@@CatBeenToHell no, depressive people won't let push you away instantly. In an emotional way you're right, but it's not like depressive people don't have friends
@@rouk2621 but they think that ther frends secretlie hate them or make Fun of them
@@shirunda9190 But if that's the case either way it doesn't justify them expecting you to stay and blaming you for not doing so, especially if you don't give insight on your illness.
conrgrats!!! you just explained everyone who fakes mental illness!
My wife was watching season 3. There’s literally a scene where Bryce does yoga with his mom for 5 minutes. I just got up and left..
Oh hell no-
While watching Pretty Much It's commentary of Season 3 I found that scene creepy because it looked like Bryce's mother was about to have sex with him and I thought they'd pull cliche "He was molested by his mother and that's why he's a rapist" shit. He was a rapist because he was a spoiled brat who thought being rich and on a football team meant he could get away with anything.
They tried to redeem a serial rapist.
Listen they tried to show you more of Bryce then just him being a rapist
Then allows you to think if he could have gotten better
At least that's what they were trying to fo
@@Xehanort10 that's your opinion. Me and most of the viewers never thought about him having sex with his mother. Maybe your to spoiled
The dad in 13 reasons why is the actor of Shrek in Shrek the Musical
NOOdle .,. Why is the cat in your icon hitting a juul that’s unhealthy
A fellow pubg player I see
@Aravind No. Fiona is just a magic ogre lady.
@@eggroll3055 Well if you're willing to strech then her being an ogre it kind of makes it literal
He is also the Dad In Next To Normal (made by the show runner of 13 Reasons Why)
What bothered me the most was that Hannah “came back” and interfered with Clay’s life. When someone is dead. They.are.dead. They’re not coming back. Sorry but every time she appeared I was annoyed
With your opinion in mind, I'd love to hear what your thoughts are on a show called 'Six Feet Under'. The show explicitly deals with mortality and death, and has some characters who are dead; imagined by the main cast.
Jack Valentino I just don’t like it when it is made that dead people “comes back”. It makes no sense
@@mikailre5959 Totally fair call; I personally feel Six Feet Under does it remarkably well
Well to be honest, it's pretty much a way to have Clay arguing with himself more. Dear Evan Hansen does the same thing with Connor Murphy but infinitely better and makes it clear it's in Evan's head. It's implied that Clay has schizophrenia but none of his symptoms while hallucinating really lines up with what hallucinating is actually like, so I totally get the hate. I got extremely annoyed too.
from a narrative standpoint?
you'd think a show trying to be serious and relatable to teenagers would have a character with acne or something *teenagers can relate to*
Mike Hunt facts
I know right
Teenager don't need something to relate to. They are intelligent and are able to think themselves into the position of someone else. Sadly the characters in this show act total illogical and not like a real human.
Tyler had acne in season one.
Mike Hunt the second ghost Hannah came I was done with the realism of this game
One of my friends back in the day was obsessed with this show. She'd say "It's so cool, it's about suicide and killing yourself!" And once I even heard her "jokingly" saying "They make it look fun."
She was 11.
@Masanit Your friend needs help
That terrifies me. Not many things scare me, but this does. Suicide? Cool? An eleven year old? This is horrible. No, I'd go so far to say it's DANGEROUS. A hazard to humanity.
I-
Well thats genuinely depressing
That's a big fucking *YIKES* from me pal
I don’t like how there is a ghost Hannah, somewhat keeping her “alive” and you can talk to Hannah, but the truth is once you commit suicide you can’t see everyone’s reaction that you’ve avenged. Once you’re dead you’re dead, there’s no going back
In my perspective,there was no ghost,it was just Clay's thoughts about her.And he needs to make a fantasy "friend" to talk to ,to share his thoughts,like he is not alone,to fool himself that he still has Hannah. You know what I mean?
@@Папа-п4о no.. i dont know what you mean, because children may watch this show or people with mental illness may watch this show. they may not understand that once you're dead, you're dead. in the show it kinda seems like hannah committed suicide to get revenge on all of her "friends" and to see how they react which kids dont understand. i once read somewhere that people who commit suicide and are in the middle of falling to their death regret it. people who have mental illness and have suicidal thoughts, or children who watch this show may not fully understand mental illness and suicide. the people who made this show honestly disgust me for their portrayal of suicide and mental illness. also im definitely not a professional so take all of this with a grain of salt. I'm 14 and really dont want more people getting hurt from this stupid show, bc ik how dumb us teenagers can be. suicide and mental illness are both super sensitive topics and the creators should've tried harder to portray them correctly
@@para-yw9dn I think you were trying to reply to the person above(Ccray).However I don't think that directors were trying to say that the suicide is the only answer and the only way you get revenge to the people who hurt you.But it was just many times that they portrayed all of this pourly.For example,in season 2 we see hannah's "ghost"( I believe it's just Clay's thoughts)very happy and smiling a lot in S2 as she found peace,like she is leaving happily now,she is in paradise and has no problems.As a result of you see the show and if you are in a desperate position,you think suicide is the only option to get away from this.But the reality is when you die,you die,there's nothing,from my view.
Honestly a show this serious should not have a ghost character, cuz that really dumb
@@lowqualityvideos8091 I kind of agree with you, it just ruined the tone imo. Then again, the tone wasn't that good at all.
13 reasons why acts like theyre really helping someone by showing extreme graphic sexual assault and suicide. people always say "if it triggers you just dont watch it!", but if the people the show is trying to "help" cant even watch the show, its obviously not helping.
Rachel Rayburn it didn't target people who needed help. It targeted people who didn't, so that they could think more on their actions and how it affects the people around them. I'm not saying it's perfect. But it has, as funny as it may sound, started conversations. A study by Northwestern university has showed that many people reached out to those who they may have hurt and apologized.
It gets way more hate than it deserves if you ask me. It's just a show.
john smith the creators aren’t making a “show”, they’re “trying to start a conversation”. It’s offensive. It’s trying way too hard to act like it’s some “big brainy boi” and tries to claim that it’s above every other TV show on Netflix. It’s delusional. It tries way too hard to claim that it’s some white knight acting for the greater good.
@@shaneyy__ The show has "started conversations" in fact like this entire video and comment section.
Person Person a toxic “conversation” that has only led to pissed off people who actually have taste and understand what these issues are actually like. This show is the literal embodiment of ignorance.
@@shaneyy__ If you think the only conversation being had is people being upset and not ones of suicide prevention then you are the ignorant one.
Bojack Horseman is an infinitely better portrayal of mental illness on Netflix and I hate that people consider this a good show or a good portrayal of the subject because it's dreadful
what is Bojack horseman is it a good show?
It's another Netflix original that is set around a washed up sitcom star from the 90s trying to get his life together in some form, and not lose the little he has left. It's really good and I recommend it highly.
Stardevoir oh cool i might watch it.
And that show is a comedy!
I find this comment extremely offensive
Bojack Horseman shouldn’t even be bothered by the presence of 13 reasons why
I think this show was actually very dangerous. There was a sexual assault with a broomstick that... took inspiration from the show. It happened at a school near my city
Of course there was. It makes me so sad that I’m not even that surprised.
shit man, I honestly wish I was suprised
I remember I had come back from the hospital, was home, having lunch and when it came up, I couldn’t eat anymore. It was so graphic and disgusting...I had nightmares bout it for days, couldn’t eat for weeks. And to know that this show cause someone to be inspired to assault another human irl is disgusting. I hated this show but now I can’t stop but hating it more.
@@jiminjams52 I hate this show for reasons cuz it's just bullshit, but I don't agree with the whole inspiring thing. if someone's gonna rape someone they gon do it, I don't mind the graphic shit in this show, I find it quite amusing, what I don't like is the whole Hannah bitch telling clay to fuck off and then crying cuz he left and killing herself like a little bitch. If someones gonna kill themself it's their choice but if it takes a dumb show for you to do it then you're a Fucking idiot.
That attack wasn’t inspired by the show... they might have said that it was but this has been done repeatedly amongst males... it’s a very vile attack but 13RW did not come up with this.
Apparently, Netflix contacted a psychologist who knows a lot more about suicide prevention than they do, and he advised them to make some drastic changes about the story before releasing the first season but Netflix made him understand that they didn't want to make all those changes. Suicide prevention centers specifically stated that the way this show portrays suicide as a revenge will inspire many depressed teenagers to kill themselves in the same fashion. And indeed, many teenagers did.
This show is the embodiment of "wokeness". Self-absorbed pricks pretending that they care about an issue just so people will give them a pat on the back even though they are actually causing more harm than good. it doesn't matter that others are feeling really bad as long as you can make yourself feel good.
A tale as old as time
Why does no one realise that it’s based on a book... no one ever seems to bring it up. Netflix didn’t write the base story.
Ok
*Y E S*
NewBenCity For the sake of argument I'm going to pretend that the show is just a pure copy of the book. Netflix could have listened to the psychologist who told them that there were many problems with their adaptation. Just because they didn't write the base story doesn't mean they are immune from criticism for willingly making a show that is very harmful for their very target audience. NO one obliged them to adapt the book. Also, changing elements from the book is not a sacrilege that would doom their souls for eternity. saying 'the book is like that" doesn't excuse the fact that they deliberately made a harmful show just for money, especially when they pretend that their end goal is to help the very people the show is harming. There were definitely a lot more viewers than readers of 13RW, and visual media has a lot more impact, therefore, the show had a strong impact on many more people.
Furthermore, your point isn't even relevant because there are things that they changed from the book just for shock value. Hannah doesn't graphically cut her wrists in the book. Suicide prevention centers recommend not to show graphic portrayal of suicide as it usually inspires suicidal people and triggers them. The book portrayed her suicide in a more adequate way. This change clearly shows that the makers of the show didn't even bother looking up the stuff they were trying to "start a conversation" about, they just wanted shock value for money.
My biggest issue is with Clay and how he bullies and blackmail others in the show but it portrayed as noble vigilante justice.
that's something not talked about as often but I agree with it. Like yes you would have outbursts if the guy or girl you loved killed themselves but not to this point lsklsk
To be fair basically everyone in this show is awful and deserves shit
@@tumulovermelho93 true. they're all a group of psyhopaths in season 3 lol
Batman he is not
I tried to start the conversation with my boyfriend. I told him 13 reasons why is stupid. He said I don't know why you're telling me this. I said because I'm starting the conversation dammit
Alexandra Jones this made me chuckle thanks 😂😂
Lmao
cACKLED
I'm proud of you
Kekekeke
Personally, I found Hannah herself very unlikeable, mainly because she's a real hypocrite. She goes on and on about "bullying" and how mean everyone is to her, and it's mostly exaggerated - I mean, come on, she wants to kill herself bc Zach steals a few notes from her (E7)? The thing is: If she feels petty things like that affect people so much, then why is she doing similar (and worse) things herself? E.g. her *constant* jokes about Clay being nerdy.
Or way worse, witnessing another girl's rape, doing nothing about it and then making the story about that rape available for possibly the whole world to hear on the tapes.
Or making Clay, who - in her own words, "doesn't belong on the tapes" - fear and quiver about what he could possibly have done until he gets to hear his tape. ... The list could go on forever.
Hannah also expected everyone else to read her mind and made everything about herself, which was incredibly annoying. Examples: When she told Clay to "get the fuck out", he gets the fuck out, and got his own tape for not reading her thoughts (E11), or the scene in E13 where she wanted Mr. Porter to mysteriously know what's on her mind and follow her.
I read the book back when it first came out and vehemently hated it for all the reasons you’ve stated. It’s disgusting victim complexing and trash, so I stayed far far away from the show
I thought i was the only one but you described what I was thinking the whole show . Watching someone get raped not doing anything, then making you rape as shook moment was so hypocritical to me ..
Exactly
minus the rape, her reasonings were so miniscule, and having her kill herself due to them was so irresponsible and dangerous. It didn't start a conversation, it had the potential (I haven't seen if it actually has) to cause more suicide attempts over other miniscule things because not everyone watching a show like this has a stable mental state, and most are impressionable. The same way in S3 they try and get the audience to forgive Bryce, all because he was going to change, like it's so toxic and irresponsible. I had a girl ask me "Have you never made a mistake?" regarding the Bryce topic, after I said the plot was wrong to redeem him, and I just- 13rw really taught it's audience that serial rape was a mistake. I'm so angry that this show exists, and that the way people defend it is by calling mentally ill or victims 'sensitive' because they're actually concerned for people's mental health and wellbeing. It's just another production profiting off dramatising and glamorizing mental illness and trauma. S4 really fucked everyone's characters because the creators literally don't give a fuck about them.
Oh yeah, I found it really hard to like Hannah at all. She screwed up several people who didn't even do anything wrong. What one stopped talking to you (Jessica), another got embarrassed when you did a blatantly stupid thing (Zach) and the other left when you told them to (Clay)?
Better screw up their lives and mental well being by leaving vindictive tapes blaming a literal death on their laughably minor actions.
It's the old suicide note thing. People only really leave them either to reassure certain people it wasn't their fault or to hurt those who wronged them (Generally disproportionately hurting those who cared about them the most) Hannah is at the latter of the two which is and always will be just a dick move.
13 reasons why we should *_start a conversation_*
Relatable
fbspin
"pokemon
G O T O T H E P O L L S"
start a conversation with a fist to the face, more like
Reason 1: You all seem like nice people, we can have a conversation
.............
Reason 13: I dislike everyone around me, but I like VHS tapes.
fbspin Cuz thinngz r bad and not good
I feel like this is the type of show when at the end they're going to have Clay wake up next to Hannah and she's alive and it was all just a dream.
That would make more sense than ANYTHING in the show.
justkidding lol right
Ghost hannah should have just been animated like a stick figure to show she wasn't really there.
Or just her voice? Maybe have little glimpses of movement? Like a bit of hair going past a doorway?
@@AFarmerCalledChicken anything really, to show she's not there.
Maybe just a bit weird, like Glitchtrap in FnafVR ?
they could have like made her look fake by like animating a bit of white around the edges or made her fade in and out of existence
That is actually more creative than what they did. I can picture it in my head: clay opening his notebook and stick figure Hannah starts talking to him. Maybe he uses the notebook to see Hannah when he's feeling down or doesn't know what to do, and he is heart broken when he is told that it's just a hallucination.
One of Hannah's tapes encouraged people to throw rocks through Tylers window, bully him, and just caused all of the events that escalated into him being a potential school shooter, while all the other people on the tapes had each other and all their other friends to rely on and keep them from talking about the tapes. I'm not saying any of that excuses him stalking her, but it just reinforced my theory that she made the tapes for revenge more than anything else. To me it just seemed like the tapes and the suicide were forms of revenge for her.
The show doesn't feel like it portrays mental illness well at all. Clays parents are told about his hallucinations and they literally did nothing about it. They made the school counselor out to be "useless" and "at fault" because Hannah refused to talk to him but expected him to run after her. Hannah is an awful character. She had an awful personality. That doesn't mean she deserved the bullying or what Bryce did to her, but those tapes were nothing but pure revenge.
Hannah: I was bullied and raped? Better make sure other people get bullied too because if I have to suffer everyone will.
Hannah is just a bad person. No one should ever feel like they have to kill themselves, but it makes it hard to feel bad when the person that died was such an asshole
@@Xehanort10 It's the "if I go down, I'm taking you all with me" mentality, tbh if you were about to die, wouldn't you want to cause some chaos? I'm damn sure I'd be up for that, idk why people are against revenge, I find it the best option.
@@akithefull Revenge is about making sure people don't go unpunished for wronging you and making sure they don't do it to anyone else. Apart from Bryce the people Hannah mentioned on the tapes had little to nothing to do with her eventually killing herself.
@@Xehanort10 agreed, but if the chick was about to kill herself, why not ruin as many lives as she can, you can't lose anything since you're gonna die, so why not ruin everyone else?
I'm sorry, but school (or otherwise public) shooters don't just "decide" to stop shooting a place up. Mostly, they can't be reasoned with.
i survived a school shooting because a teacher tackled and held down the shooter
Whaddya mean? I once had a very pleasant conversation with my classmate after he came to school with an AR-15 to murder me and the rest of the people there. Nice guy, shame FBI SWAT shot him
@@politickz6591 damn he recover?
@@ofclown9458 We'll see. The paramedics found _most_ of the brain parts.
@@Anastas1786 free strawberry jam
Hannah Baker: Nobody loves me, I can't recognize the love that's around me, I've never had any love, I'm starving emotionally and I must end things because the trauma doesn't stop
Hannah Baker in season 2: I actually had a popular boyfriend and was happy for a bit.But when that ended, THEN I never had any love or affection.
Suicide is a terrible thing and no one deserves it.
But Hannah Baker (as we've seen by the fact that she made literal intimidation tapes) is not that great of a person (and neither is the guy who helped to distribute them)
OblivionFN XBL Not wHaT he was going for...
That “but” just contradicts the sentence you just said like do some people deserve to commit suicide because I don’t think so
@@ModelNumbers I would never say that. The thing is, the show tries to paint suicide as a thing that people fall into due to depression, but she actually ends up doing it a bit out of spite, which contradicts this idea.
Hannah Baker is not a good person, which is too complex of a message to pin on a suicide character with the way the show is being told.
They could've told a story about suicide that was nuanced and good, but instead we got that garbage.
Hannah was the exact sort of girl who deserved to never have happiness because she was a total piece of shit to everyone yet expected everyone to kiss her ass.
@@Hammerhead547 Guess you never were an assh. as a Teen then? Most Teens are unlikable and dumm. Its hormones and bad parenting that make it even worse.
The funniest thing about the last episode was that Clay should've been dead. I mean if you think about it Clay took some nude photographs of Tyler and send them around and I can't really remember if he even made a sincere apology towards Tyler. So for him to run out the building towards the man he hurt who is there to kill everyone who hurt him is the stupidest shit ever.
Tbo Folge how is it stupid to try and stop someone from committing a school shooting
Fake Name it’s stupid if they’re already there with the guns and you know they don’t like you and you gather everyone up and say “don’t call the cops”. In real life Clay would’ve been killed and Tyler would’ve easily killed a lot of kids before the cops came. You don’t just run up to someone with a loaded gun with the intent to hurt people and try to reason with them.
TetyanaKufta it’s not that stupid when you really think about it, though. sure, clay did some dumb shit to tyler but so did monty. at least clay actually looked sincere about what he did and nicely persuaded him to not shoot anyone.
@@assmilk9674 It's extremely dangerous. You don't know what goes around someone's mind when they decide to commit acts such as shootings. Yeah, it's a show, but in real life people should NEVER attempt this. What's more likely to happen is that they'll shoot anyone trying to stop them, proceed to kill as many as possible and then off themselves. Those people don't need just any help, they need professional help. Sorry for long reply.
I agree it was very unrealistic.
that one girl who burned the evidence of bryce at the end made me want to scream. i don't know what trauma you could have gone through to let a literal rapist get away with everything he did, to make all of the other girls live with it for the rest of their lives. if she didn't want them to know about her, she could have just taken her polaroid out.
I know this comment is a year old but I have to also agree. Like she doesn’t feel comfortable sharing her story but what gives her the right to take away anyone else’s?
Is like "fuck everyone else that suffered because of him if I don't want to share my story nobody will!"
I know right
Lmao that was the only realistic part of the show to me, it felt like something a petty teenager would do. The fact they conveniently had photos of rape with evidence was ridiculous though.
"Let's make a list of social issues people get irrationally emotional over, and build a TV show around it! People will inevitably talk about it, and we can say we're 'starting a conversation' to deflect any accusations that we're capitalizing on real-life tragedy and hardship!"
Dr Shaym I'm your first comment you will do good to remember me
Dr Shaym thank you for wording my thoughts
We need this but for 9/11 but with jokes
Dr Shaym I feel like you should own I Hate Everything
Dr Shaym It's actually based on a book tho
The line that killed me was the Principal of the school saying " I've never met a woman in my life that hasn't been sexually assaulted or harassed " ....what?
....What? Well that's an interesting generalization.
some people define sexual harassment as "any unwanted touching" which means that anyone who has been shoulder bumped as they pass someone is a victim of sexual harrassment
lets start a conversation
Wait the principal didn't say that ?
Sexual harassment includes being told inappropriate comments of a sexual nature that are unwanted.
To me, I'd only define myself as being sexually harassed if AFTER I told the person to stop and they didn't, they groped my body unsolicited, they molest or rape me. All I'd say are sexual harassment.
To anybody who has just a basic understanding about mental illness this show is ridiculously insulting.
As Alex, great video by the way, already mentioned: the cases of various kinds of mental damage being inflicted on the characters in the show are all unexceptionally illustarted in a very one dimensional way.
This is not how depression works. This is not how schizophrenia works. This is not how psychic drives work.
13 reasons why is disgusting. It basically glorifys suicide as something almost sacrificial
I don’t get why people say that, I can’t think of a single scene that portrayed suicide as a good thing
@@alexandrabrown068 i didnt say they portray it as a good thing. I said
They glorify it. like Hannah was making a sacrifice, its tragic but only thing she could do. I havent watched the show but i did read a good bit of the book. In the book Hannah PURPOSELY puts herself in a position where she would get raped so that she could hate herself enough to take her life. After reading that I threw the book in the garbage.
@@alexandrabrown068 To portray suicide as a good thing you do not need to stare at the camera and say those exact words. Psychologists told the creatores to avoid certain things in a piece of media focused on suicide, but they ignored it all, hence all the backlash.
First off, the whole concept of the show is a weaponization of suicide, showing a girl killing herself to get revenge on those who did her wrong. This TV show shows suicide as a revenge mechanism instead of a desesperate attempt to end pain. The pure concept of the show is already disrespecting two of the rules set by psychologists. Do not glorify suicide or show the suicide message, if there is one. Even worse than that, the show also brought Hannah back from the dead as an hallucination so that she could see the damage she caused on those around her. That does not happen when you kill yourself. You cannot see the impact of your suicide. You are dead and you do not comeback.
Second off, showing Hannah slitting her wrists for pure shock value was one of the worst decisions ever made. Psychologists warned the creatores that, if possible, they shouldn't even tell the way she killed herself, but the show went one step ahead of that and showed her on the act with some of the most graphic and disturbing images I have ever seen.
The whole show keeps saying that mental ilnesses do not define you, yet most of the characters are defined by their mental illness. When you put a serious and real theme, such as suicide and insert it in a fake setting, such as a high school teen drama, with fake characters, people will not relate to them and will likely feel more alone than they felt before watching the show.
This problem of fake settings and characters can be seen in Hannah, that is the absolute opposite of what a suicidal person should be, and she is portrayed in the absolute opposite way that she should be. First off, her character is absolutely defined by her mental illness, because that's her function for the plot and nothing more, again, portraying people as nothing more than their mental illness is glorifying it. She is hypocritical as hell, narcistic and a total drama queen for the whole show. She complains about bullying all the time in the show, although (through the tapes) she bullies two people into suicide attempts (Clay and Alex). These two people who treated her very well throughout the show, especially Clay, who did nothing more than leave when she told him to. Also Hannah let her friend Jessica be raped and did absolutely nothing about it, not during it and not after it, which is so fucking stupid. She blames everyone for what happened but herself. And yes, Bryce raped her, but the decision to commit suicide is yours and yours only. You cannot blame other people for your decision and doing it through tapes the way she did is the most disgusting thing ever. She killed herself to get revenge and haunt some very nice people for the rest of their lives because of something they did as teenagers, while others did not do nothing at all, such as Clay or the school psychiatrist. You can't possibly wait that people relate to a character if you make her this hypocritical and awful to everyone.
I hope I explained to you some of the ways this show encourages suicide, through it's glorification, weaponization and romanticization of suicide.
TO ANYONE ELSE READING THIS, DO NOT WATCH THIS SHOW. WHETHER YOU ARE OR NOT SUFFERING FROM SOME KIND OF MENTAL ILLNESS, THIS SHOW IS EXTREMELY DANGEREROUS AND YOU SHOULD NOT WATCH IT.
Delivery man Q / How did Hannah make it seem like she was a sacrifice? And how is showing exactly what suicide is like glorifying it? I know the book is different but there’s a reason they changed it in the show, so how is the show problematic with it?
@@alexandrabrown068 the author made it seems like it was a sacrifice is what im saying
I think Clay’s name describes his character. A boring lump of dirt that could be messed with, but just sits there being useless.
JimmyMACfluster I
JimmyMACfluster 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Ethan Cothran
You’re right. This character is so bad that he has tarnished my outlook on the art of his namesake. Apologies.
JimmyMACfluster LMAOOO
KuSeBe maybe you should fully read what he wrote?
If only Cool Cat was here. He'd stop the school shooting.
BigBossMan538 god i can't wait for that to be released omg
BigBossMan538 *cause* it
ryo asuka apologist It was cancelled. Derek changed it to "Cool Cat Stranger Danger Alert".
That Lonely Giraffe inc. aw
That Lonely Giraffe inc. Guess it just became 14 reasons why.
Teens watch one episode of '13 reasons why' and suddenly they're psychologists
Soggy Mcmoistcakes exactly
Soggy Mcmoistcakes Can we have "I HATE RIVERDALE"?
yes please!
“Sweetie, you can talk to me. I know about these things ☺️☺️☺️”
"Are you sad? Don't worry you just need to watch 13 reasons why!"
"All my scars are inside"
auUGHHHHHH. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHHH.
"Crawling In My Skin plays."
God, what a pretentiously obnoxiously gag-worth line!
Oh the edge
Sweet sweet EDGE
That would be amusing if the context didn’t make it so joylessly awful.
The meme of Despacito 2’s release dropping the suicide rate to 0% is more kind to people with mental health problems.
Spencer Whiteway Yeah, it might make them crack a smile unlike 13rw which would make them feel even worse.
Spencer Whiteway are you saying you don’t like it?
Tis a good meme
Get off my stream with those normie memes
Wheat T that’s not something normies are gonna like
I cannot BELIEVE this show was cleared for a season two! Honestly, this show poisons the mind into thinking suicide is okay, and in fact there have been SEVERAL copycat suicides after this shows release. I have attempted to take my own life MANY times. Once by trying to overdose on Clonopin, and I would have succeeded if it wasn't for my mom texting me saying 'Hope you get home safely' as this was after the family reunion in Nashville where I was molested by one of my uncles. I forced myself to vomit up everything in my stomach. I did not have to go to the hospital to get it pumped or anything.
Upon arriving home I hugged my mom and told her what happened and how I felt. She was very happy I did not succeed in my suicide attempt. That day forward I attempted to cut everything negative out of my life, I did not succeed. HOWEVER this year I went to go see a play called 'Every Brilliant Thing' where the main character narrates how his mom had depression, and that not wanting to end up like his mom, he decided to make a list of 'Every Brilliant Thing'. He continued to do this throughout his life until one day the list reached one million things.
After I got home from that play I started typing up and writing down all the things that made me happy, that are wonderful. I am currently at 130 and my goal is 1,000. I suffer from severe depression and making this list, working on it everyday, has TRULY made my life brighter. I've become more optimistic, don't let negative things effect me, and maintain a happy demeanor. This list technique may not work for everyone but it most certainly has for me. Try it, it may help.
Night Raven bless your soul
Night Raven did you call the police on your uncle? And also I hope you are ok
F
I hope you are doing fine. Please don't consider suicide. You are a strong person, and you exist for a reason.
Here’s one,
Dirt.
It may seem really weird, but I’m really glad dirt exists, I mean, think about everything that we wouldn’t have without dirt. It just makes me happy that it’s there.
So would this show be better or worse if Cool Cat stopped the school shooting?
Be N S O N it would be perfect
It would actually make the show worth watching.
Oh my gosh replace the writer now
COOL CAT
It would make more sense.
The characters don’t have personalities, their personalities are their disorders.
The sodomy part was in my opinion just in poor taste and only for shock value. This show is the worst
Exactly. They tried to brush it off as a "Stuff like this happens in real life" thing which it does but very rarely when the scene was really just a "How can we shock people? We'll have Monty and his mates shove a broom up his ass and rape him."
Even The Sopranos (a very graphic show meant for adults), which had a similar thing happen to one of its characters after it is discovered he is a homosexual, handled this with more care. It is described in detail by the people who did it, but even Tony, who is obviously not a very soft guy himself, is repulsed, horrified and even moved to tears when he hears about it. But is is never shown or visually hinted at. And that was more than enough.
Robin Mattheussen oh really?
@@e2daron Now take into account that The Sopranos was written on the late 90s-early 2000s. We've gone backwards goddammit.
You mean Hannah being raped…? You think that was for shock affect? Seriously?
Hopefully, it won’t become “13 seasons why”
Fenris Wolf If it does, it’ll be “13 seasons, why?”
AYYYYYYY
AYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
13 seasons...why?
Youuuuuu jinx it
13 reasons why
Season 3 of 13 reasons why announced
14 reasons why
*shrek 5 is canceled*
15 reasons why
*The Crusades come back*
0 reasons why.
4th season planned.
*16 Reasons Why*
Netflix: LEt's make _!3 reaosns why_
Mental health experts: Worried
Netflix: Seaosnn 2!
Mental health experts: www.psychiatry.org/newsroom/news-releases/international-coalition-of-experts-issues-an-alert-regarding-release-of-13-reasons-why-season-2
Netflix: What about season 3! We are great, we are talking about important stuff!
HOW HARD IT IS TO UNDERSTAND!
Oh god lmao
My boyfriend almost killed himself. He was battling depression and they act like having depression is cool and trendy. They think they are battling the problem but are fueling the problem.
All the kids and teenagers who think being depressed is "quirky" and "relatable" don't help either.
Explain to me where they TALK about depression being cool and trendy.
@@patrickmahomesthegoat180
It’s a teenage comedy about this shit.
@@lily-cq2cu where do they laugh about suicide? Season and episode and time please
@@patrickmahomesthegoat180 when did I say that in the comment. Sentence and word please
They should’ve gotten rid of the ghost and given Clay his own hormone monster.
Philip Hanhurst ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Philip Hanhurst i understood that reference
Big mouth? ;)
Big mouth referenceeeeee
Stand master: Clay
Stand name: big gay
What I NEVER got about the show is this: if you have or know anything about depression, you know it's an irrational force. This show tries SO SO hard to force rational reasons behind what the characters are motivated by that it just stops making any logical sense and yet they all just....roll w it.
This. You put into words exactly what I meant to say about it.
*Because they are reasons why sometime*
Fr though. Depression is a lens that alters a sufferer's perception of reality and sense of self.
Things that are unreasonable for healthy people may seem reasonable. Things that are reasonable may seem unreasonable.
It's like they're trying to tie up loose ends, but they're tying them to the wrong anchor. A depressed person's anchor is not the same as a healthy person's. We aren't grounded in the same reality, objective as that reality may be.
Snapchat Seb.gay99 I agree, sometimes there are reasons but they didn’t even stick to that way of thinking to explain her suicide. Hannah killed herself literally right after she was raped, which actually happens a lot when rape victims don’t get any support.....but they didn’t even explain it that way, the whole reasoning is how everyone she knew contributed to her suicide (hence the tapes) which is just stupid. So, while I do agree with you that there are reasons why people do commit suicide sometimes, the show’s logic is just all over the place.
Vivi Vargas you worded that perfectly 👌🏻 literally I have nothing to add, good job!
As someone who has been hospitalized for mental illness, including suicide attempts, I hated 13RW. Something that really got to me was the 'Hannah Ghost'. The point of suicide is that the person can't come back, they can't watch things go right, it's a permanent decision that you can't take back. Hannah being able to come back and hear and see things others meant to say to her completely erased the seriousness and permanent-ness of suicide. She died not knowing who cared for her and loved her, she died with so many questions and doubts and worries. She CAN'T see them be resolved because she's GONE.
Another issue I had was the simplicity and dumb-down of symptoms of depression and someone at risk of suicide. 'People may change their physical appearance- *cuts to Hannah with short, stylish hair*'. People dealing with depression sometimes don't even shower or brush their teeth, but no, that's too gross for this 'hard hitting' show. A styled bob was their best attempt.
Saoirse Kelly Mahoney Exactly
Youre absolutely right. I seriously hope youre better now.
i hadn't even thought of that. i guess i considered "hannah's ghost" as an incredibly inaccurate depiction of a psychotic episode. but god, that makes it even worse.
Thank you for saying this! As a child I was religious about cleaning my teeth but as I grew older and depression got worse I went two weeks without brushing my teeth, an entire week without getting out of bed except when I was forced to, etc. It's disgusting! :(
I hope you're doing better.
Agreed. I also hate that they make the show feel like a childish scavenger hunt. Yeah, because THAT'S what suicide is!
why do none of them go to therapy?
Good question. For a show about "raising awareness" they do NOTHING to portray healthy coping mechanisms.
To be fair, going to therapy is a very difficult step for many people, even for these who are at their wit's end. But it definitely could have been a subject this show tackled. Not edgy enough though, so they skipped that. Instead, here's a link to some shitty website.
Because of their sick sick EDGE. This ain't your daddies high school show! (Someone kill me now)
Clay did before S1 and Alex in S2. S4 will add a therapist in the main cast. Just saying
They do. Clay, Tyler, Bryce, Alex and I’m pretty sure Jessica did. It’s also an important point that irl sometimes people fail to get therapy when they should so that only causes more problems. They’re being realistic.
As someone who deals with depression, suicidal thoughts, and self harm this show insults me. People don't kill themselves as revenge, they kill themselves because their thoughts are so intrusive and scary they give in and do what they say. For a show that's supposed to bring awareness it's very incorrect.
It's almost like the writers don't know what they're doing, and just want to exploit real issues for money....
@@randomguy6679 exactly the truth my guy
The over complexity is very frustrating. I used to think I need a big sad tramautic back story for me to feel sad I used to believe I could feel without some big tramautic mess.
Yeah it's an insult
SHE DID NOT KILL HERSELF AS REVENGE. She killed her self for the constant bullying and rape she had to go through god your an idiot
it's more ironic how most of the people who watch "13 reasons why" are mostly the same type of people who would bully their schoolmates just like in the show.
ahh the irony~
Gigantis uh how do you know that?
You're basically denouncing people for no reason, why? Good assumption.
Actually, you're absolutely right.
I noticed a lot of assholes like the show.
Tommy Wilson He said that MOST people are. He didn’t say that everyone who watches it could be a piece of crap. And he’s probably right anyway, 99% of the people who I know watch this show are bullies who get all confused when someone calls them about it.
I cannot stand how they make everybody but hannah seem responsible for hannah’s suicide even people who really cared and tried/wanted to help like mr.porter
Aaliyah Griffin exactly l fully agree with you,she blamed some of them for the pettiest things as to why she killed herself.
I get that but mr. Porter did victimize a rape victim which is a HUGE no no when it comes to talking to them.
In the book they do a much better job at showing the reasons why she decided to end her life (the whole point being why she did what she did and what led her to that decision) and if I'm remembering correctly, Mr. Porter writes off the signs she exhibits and doesn't exactly reach out to her.
Also they end the book nicely with the protagonist taking the signs Hannah showed and noticing them in a classmate and befriending them in order to prevent another person from repeating Hannah's actions. He regrets never really befriending Hannah and having him befriend someone else who seems to be heading down the same path is a great way to wrap up the story and the main protagonist's character arc.
I highly recommend reading the book. It's more suspenseful and different from what the show, not to mention they dont mention how Hannah commits suicide or describes it.
ambie the show wanted to take a more serious tone the book Hannah was more selfie and out for revenge and the person who made the show didnt wanna take that route
Possible spoiler for the book: I haven't read it myself, but doesn't Hannah actually survive in the book? Look everyone thinks she does, but she actually survives her suicide attempt or something? I thought one of my friends told me that.
They did handle the abortion discussion terribly
Why? I didn't watch it, was it that bad?
@@laurocoman just imagine the show offending pro choice and pro life people at the same time and there you go
OF clown / what did they do to offend pro choice ppl? Cause I’m pro life and obviously saw it as offensive but it seemed to be pro choicers would love what they did with it
Alexandra Brown I’m pro choice but I thought it was offensive because it delivered like a personal attack on pro-lifers, which does nothing but stir up anger on both sides. I felt uncomfortable with the way they portrayed pro-lifers as The Bad Guys™, like they‘re anti-choice and nothing else, because obviously the abortion debate is a lot more nuanced than that. Most pro-life advocates I’ve met aren’t driven by a desire to control women but by a genuine concern for human life and I feel like the show isn’t interested in portraying both sides of the matter sensitively and objectively. It’s an arrogant decision on the writers’ part.
They intentionally, blatantly antagonized the pro-life movement and diminished it into basically a cartoon villain, and in doing so, made the pro-choice movement look like the jerks in real life. There are no villains and it’s irresponsible of them to insinuate that.
I Cloud / Totally agree. You’re the first pro choice person I’ve met that says they realize that pro lifers aren’t just a bunch of ppl looking to control women’s bodies and that it’s actually about the child. Now statically I’m sure there are people like in this video and guys who don’t want women having the choice regardless of what’s right or wrong. But I’m glad someone out there can be on the other side and still understand what the mass of the PLers are like. I like this show a lot but I really feel like they just included this storyline to make people happy with seeing their side of it and portraying PLers as heartless monsters when in fact from what I’ve seen they always keep their distance at clinics and don’t scream at people going in.
I must live under a rock considering I’ve never heard of this show. It’s a pretty good rock to live under.
I envy you. I used to be like you until my sister and our cousin dragged me into watching the second season with them. We had fun laughing at the show, but still. I could've done without it.
Lived in that rock too, I'll just stick with the book
falsehero2001 room for one more
falsehero2001 don't watch it, I did and fully regret it
*Top 10 Rocks I Would Rather Live Under*
the only good character in the entire show was the Counselor(forgot his name), because unlike all the other adults he actually realizes what went wrong, and that he could've done more to help. however, the show still botches this up, because the depiction of depression/suicidal thoughts with Hannah Baker is completely unrealistic.
Mr. Porter was his name
Yung Giorno btw his name is Kevin porter
yeah its confusing, shes not depressed or nothing.
Masanit bro hes married
and has a kid
@@alextorres4667 She's just a selfish person that wants attention and revenge on everyone that did her wrong. Some of the things that happened to her were her own fault, especially the Clay situation. She could've reached out to Clay but nOO, she told him to go away and then complained that he left her. Poor Clay is now (maybe) suffering from schizophrenia. She had no symptoms of Depression, any forms of anxiety, any personality disorders, etc. It makes no sense, seems she just decided so quickly that she wanted to die so she recorded a few tapes and slipped her wrist.
The "bullied kids become school shooters" thing is so tired and untrue. The vast majority of school shootings aren't conducted by victims of bullying but by bullies themselves, since it's a way to cause the most suffering while getting shitloads of attention, especially since the American media gives so much attention to the shooters, justifying their actions and borderline glorifiying them. The "bullying" they expeirenced, if any, is that nobody liked them because they were shitty to people. You don't go from being a total punching bag to being a mass murderer, most people have to build up to that kind of violence. Victims of prolonged bullying may dream about being able to get that kind of 'revenge', but are much more likely to kill themselves than anybody else.
Gwendolyn Westwind bullshit
Got some links? Because most of the most 'famous' ones were in fact outcasts who were bullied. Columbine. The recent one, Parkland iirc?
Violence is innate. Effective bullying isnt just violent, and people can just snap.
Anyways, yeah, people would make excuses as to why they bullied someone. "Oh they were mean. They were terrible. He was weird."
He was probably shitty because he was bullied for years.
I knew a kid like that in high school. Total asshole to everyone, but he was a really nice guy once he let his guard down.
Holy fuck this comment was heavy
@@CaptainLekirk The Columbine killers *were not* bullied. That was a narrative the media came up with. One of the killers moms (Dylans I think?) has even given a Ted talk saying her son was relatively popular, had lots of friends, was involved in school, pretty smart, etc. It was an easy narrative for the media to use to explain why two people would do such a horrible thing (which at the time had never really happened before in the US) was that they were bullied and outcasts, but in fact they were relatively normal kids, even popular kids, that were just massively fucked up.
@@lilcrabbybabby Nice conspiracy theory
The hypocrisy of the series is maddening. Season 1 is about how Hannah's suicide is everyone's fault (everyone, of course, except for Hannah). Season 2 is about the mother of Hannah, who didn't see the signs of her daughter's suicide, suing the school for not seeing the signs of her daughter's suicide.
Ikr. Literally there are flashbacks of her ignoring and insulting hannah casually. She is the mother for God's sake. The school has to look after 100s of kids you just had your own daughter.
Hannah depression wasn't even that well handled. Not even near decent
Someone said that the only thing Americans love more than guns is suing over every little thing, and holy shit that's accurate. Seriously what's with these American shows and suing being the first thing a character does when something goes wrong? Especially over something as vague and intangible as the motivations of a teenager's suicide
You know why I hate this show? It does the whole "You need trauma to be suicidal" thing. Sometimes perfectly happy people struggle with suicide and they don't know why. But don't talk about it because then they're told they have nothing to be suicidal over. It's bullshit ( Oops I commented too soon. IHE mentions that at 10:14 )
THANK YOU. Mental illness doesn’t always have a clear cause or explanation and it’s so important for people to know that.
Elisa Castro I'm not sure how to respond to that argument. By that logic, pretty much no one who isn't homeless and starving should be allowed to be suicidal. You can just fuck right off with that tbh
Elisa Castro Do you think it's coincidental that the highest rates of suicide in the world belong to the first of the first world countries? And I am talking about people of mature age with successful careers and all. Clearly you have no idea what the fuck depression is.
Right my bf was like that. He had a great life and he still did it
Elisa Castro I have to agree with the others. Mental illnesses don't care how much money you have or how good your life is. They're ILLNESSES, they don't pick and choose.
What do you mean it’s a bad show?
It’s the best comedy show on Netflix!
Snake Hahahaha.
For a sec i thought this was a hate comment but then my dumbass realized
Good one...
*_LMAO_*
I hate this comment so much that in my rage, I accidentally pressed the like button.
Well, you were right about the abortion part. good job.
Oh god, I can only imagine how poorly they handled that D:
Mommy Mochi i don‘t wanna watch the whole season. Please Tell me how they did it
@@elena0324 same! How did they do it?
As someone with severe depression, I think that this series portrayed and executed depression in such a poor manner, that it’s a bit laughable and it makes people with actual depression kinda look bad
Caleb Collings you took the words out of me mouth mate
Caleb Collings seriously man. Severe depression my whole life not once have a grabbed my shotgun and decided to hit up the local pre k dance
True
Caleb Collings couldn't agree more
DoggySporty Doesn't mean it can't be done right. BoJack Horseman provides a good look at how depression can be destructive while something like Oyasumi Punpun presents a realistic yet entertaining look at what it feels like.
There was this guy i used to be friends with. He loved this show, and would always try to convince me to watch it. He knows I have depression + was uncomfortable with the idea of watching this show. He had a relative who was bipolar, so he thought he was some mental health expert. He thought 13rw was super deep and an accurate portrayal of how a suicidal person acts?? It was so fucking annoying.
Kings of New Jersey you should have watched Bojack Horseman. Much more accurate depiction of depression
I think you should stop being his friend. He's either Patrick from Spongebob or he's trying to make you end your life
@@denisdukaj I actually just recently ended things with him. Him wanting me to watch the show was honestly the least of the problems we had while we were friends. He was an all around shitty person who denied doing anything wrong when I confronted him about it. I was upset about losing him for a couple days, but I'm so glad I did it.
@@coachstopframe Congratulations, a toxic relationship is something that all of us don't want. Anyway, just try and have a good life. Some people with mental illness aren't that simplified, I have something that sometimes don't give out emotions and always lost interest at people after some time and I don't really have a problem with it. And I agree that you should watch Bojack Horseman, it's pretty good.
I don't get how anyway would feel like an expert after watching this
What I don’t understand is why the parents never pulled the kids out of that damn school! The school clearly doesn’t do much to prevent bullying. Clay told his parents he wanted to move and his dad says “But this is our home” . And Tyler had no friends and everyone hated him but he still wanted to go back to the school like wtf?!
Because this story apparently takes place in a world that doesn't have private schools, alternative schools, home schools or online schools.
Not everyone can afford private school, Not everyone wants their child in private school or home school cause they want their kid interact with normal people.
+Jack Carver
what about other schools in the area?
That means new school fee which means it affects the family budget managing mortgage, groceries for the family, gas money etc. If none of those are an issue then moving to another school is ideal but remember none of the parents really have a problem with the school except Hannah's parents cause the others didn't know what was going on.
Jack Carver school fee? If its a public school then they don't pay for tuition, America doesn't seem to have uniforms and its not college, so you wouldn't need to buy textbooks. I'm not American so could you please elaborate on what 'school fee' his family would have to pay (assuming there are other schools close enough that they don't have to move)
And then season 3 just pretends Hannah baker never happened... lol
Hannah who?
And replaced her with some random called Ani.
Lol, how?!😂
Xehanort10 what did she do and why was she the replacement?
@@andreasmeelie1889 She got into a relationship with Bryce despite knowing he was a rapist and thought him being a human being justified him raping people. And despite only being introduced in that season she somehow knew everyone and was treated as if she'd always been there.
The biggest reason why i was disappointed is that they missed the opportunity to play "pumped up kicks" on the dance. smh
Carius98 lol
Good lord that would be too fitting
The thing that pisses me off the most about this garbage is how if you speak negatively of it and try to explain why, people get all pissy.
Agreed
Ethan Page yeah that sums it up pretty well
+Big Booty SmaII Girl
You right.
Why are depressed and suicidal people always portrayed as attractive middle class teenagers in these types of shows?
Owl the Commentator idk. I need at least one story with someone with more interesting problems. Not saying she can't have depression, but they try to make it seem like her depression comes from having a "tough life". It's dumb
Because they are most of the time, poor unattractive people can’t afford to depressed
statistically, middle to upper class people are more likely to commit suicide.
When is the last time you saw an unattractive actor in anything.
Jack Carver For real. It's Not Like it's impossible or anything. Mostly, people who commit suicide are upper class.
This is basically riverdale if it was heavily inspired by “im 14 and this is deep”
@@talinaurr I-
You fucking what? What even are you?
@@royalblanket For real. I hate when people do those stupid hyphens for no reason.
At least Riverdale knows how stupid and cheesy it is.
@@talinaurr please. That sub is actually hilarious, this is grimderp.
Well, but at least they S T A R T E D A C O N V E R S A T I O N
RickRaptor105 Yes! Thanks Netflix, I need someone to tell me how to feel about complex issues
*and then everybody clapped*
Yes, before this show came out, I never knew rape was bad. But now thanks to Netflix, I I know.
Hip hip hooray.
ah yes lets provide kids with an unrealistic and romanticized view of suicide, potentially encouraging it, for the sake of starting a conversation!
The only thing good to come out of this season was the fact that Gus Dapperton made a song for the soundtrack. But it’s forced in the background for 10 seconds in a cafe scene. The man made the song in 24 hours in a van while getting pulled over multiple times for police inspections and the song was barely used
24 Frames Of Nick I known you, I've watched your vids, I enjoyed them, and somehow I just noticed that I haven't subbed to you. Mistake corrected.
ok, but like it was 13 Reason’s Why responsibility to market the fuck out of it? Like yea his situation sucks, but there are SO many songs in that show. I doubt they put that much research into every one
RissasOcean nah it’s just a fantastic song that could’ve been used to amplify a dramatic moment instead of background of a cafe scene. Missed opportunity on the shows part
Dude ive seen u everywhere wtf
24 Frames Of Nick you are literally everywhere 😂 give me more high school musical videos!
It's such a relief to see other people take issue with this show. I think the overall portrayal of suicide as a means of revenge is beyond harmful. It just perpetuates the childish fantasy of "I'll kill myself and then everyone who treated me wrong will be sorry." It completely erases the finality of suicide and death.
Duh, Have you even watched the show?
GhostGamer PL obviously or I wouldn’t be commenting on my problem with the show
goats goats At what point does this show presents suicide as a way of revenge? It does the opposite.
GhostGamer PL how are you so stupid? It's seriously astounding. How does she use it as revenge? Well let's try to think really hard ok? Oh wait it's really simple... she uses tapes to lash out at people and the fact that she killed herself naturally ups the stakes or perceived validity or her claims. Feel free to look up the definition of revenge though since you're still in grade school and likely haven't learned that word yet.
Done The show never states that in any way. It is your interpretation.
I read somewhere that when the author originally pitched the story to a publisher, Hannah had faked her death to watch people cry over her, but the publisher said that was way too dark and made him change it to be a tragedy about suicide. Except he basically just changed it so she actually died and the tone of the story (Hannah being fucking evil) remained the exact same. Now you just feel kind of bad for hating Hannah because she died, but you were always supposed to hate her because she’s written as a shitty person whose “death” was a ruse to sadistically torment people while she watched. That’s a big part of why the show sucks so bad. Hannah is evil and was never intended to be played as pure.
virginia smith that would make a much better show
I thought that the author originally had Hannah run away then decided that suicide was a much better option. What you said is news to me where did you see that?
I would’ve loved that alternate plot
LMAOO THAT WOULDVE MADE SUCH A BETTER STORY
@@callmemay2777Imagine they make a season 5 where it’s revealed that Hannah is alive and Clay tries to find her.
13 Reasons why Bojack Horseman is better than 13 Reasons why.
1. Funny
2. Incredible cast
3. Continuity
4. Consistent
5. Characters that are easy to care about
6. Realistically portrays grief
7. Realistically portrays drug addiction
8. Realistically portrays mental disorders
9. Realistically portrays LGBT characters
10. Todd
11. Will Arnett as BoJack
12. Asexual character
13. Doesn’t try desperately to not offend anybody watching
Boom, 13 reasons.
Swag Feather much more relatable. And I’m closer to the age of the cast of 13 Reasons Why, which I think says something
What is this.. a crossover episode?
there's far more than just 13 reasons
amen
It's funny you mention the behind the scenes because in another scene, Jessica says something along the lines of "I'm not a perfect victim because I'm black" basically disregarding the other rape victims emotions. The actor said in the behind the scenes that that's her favorite line, but one of the representatives of sexual assault said "well no one is a perfect victim" basically shutting her down. It's pretty funny how even when the professionals are telling them "no that's wrong" they still don't listen.
Hannah baker comes back to life in infinity war
AH SPOILERS
You just had to go and ruin it, did ya?
Dread it, run from it, season 3 arrives all the same.
clay... I don't feel so good
NTS Derpskull Thanos becomes a school shooter
I watched it before the trigger warnings were added and omg was I upset. They should take that show off, there is no reason it deserves to stay on Netflix. They don’t portray mental illnesses correctly and it romanticizes mental illnesses that are so serious and important. After season one I never continued watching, season one was terrible and genuinely made me sad and upset and not for the storyline.
Yet, Gone With The Wind screenings get cancelled because it's "too racist". I hate this generation.
I've never watched this show, but it strikes me that Bojack Horseman is a way more entertaining, accurate, realistic, incredibly creative, and respectful exploration of mental health issues, mostly without ever even mentioning the name of the mental illness afflicting the characters. All we see is the consequences. Not to mention it's absolutely fucking hilarious.
Edit: You mentioned it, lol. point still stands.
I'd given up on this show just for season 1. The show makers ENTIRELY missed the point of the book it is based off of, instead opting for shock value. I think that nothing better demonstrates this than Hannah's suicide. In the book, she overdoses on pills (legitimately so that her parents won't walk in on a horrifying scene--how ironic), but that isn't visually graphic and shocking, so they made her slit her wrists instead. There was no reason to make that change other than shock value.
I actually really liked the book because the message was ultimately "what you do can have a greater impact on others than you realize, so be a little kinder" and "pay more attention to those around you because you never know who needs your help." The main lesson Clay learns is how to spot the signs of a suicidal person.
I really knew the show messed up when after season one came out, a thousand Instagram accounts centered around what a perfect couple Hannah and Clay would've been popped up. In the books, at least as far as I can remember (it's probably been 6 or so years), Clay realizes that Hannah wasn't as great as he thought she was and is wrong in her logic. The fact that the series ended with the sentiment of what a perfect couple they would've been underscores how the show greatly romanticizes suicide.
Just because something handles a controversial topic doesn't make it good.
TheSkyHazCloudz
It definitely romantacised suicide, which was disturbing, especially since teens are this show's target audience.
The show did have good moral messages, like about rape, bullying, etc, but it just didn't know how to deliver them to its target audience.
What a wasted opportunity.
john smith suicide isn’t revenge. You’re not even alive to get the satisfaction.
That’s why I think this show sucks.
The other good thing about the book is that because we get a lot more of Hannah's voice you can kind of tell she's depressed, rather than just being bullied. Like when she gets in the hot tub with Bryce it's very clear in the book that she's given up and doesn't care about herself at all so the scene makes a lot more sense
Brian Aguilar That logic makes no sense. Anyway, you'd be surprised. Many may not go through with it, but the idea of "getting back" at those who've wronged you by committing suicide is a very real thought.
Yusuke you didn’t even prove me wrong. Are you saying suicide IS a valid form of revenge? Because that’s a disgusting way of thinking and a horrible message to send to teenagers.
It's baffeling how a series claiming to raise awareness of mental health issues casually allows Clay to have scizophrenic conversations with a dead girl without EVER addressing it as a serious case of mental illness.
Loffeleif oh my god that is such a good point! didnt even think of that...
Loffeleif He’s more Psychotic than Schizophrenic. He only speaks to Hannah hallucination, and no other ghosts or whatever, so I think Psychosis is probably closer
Aaron Landry Yeah maybe! In any case he needs to see a doctor, but the show is too busy starting a c o n v e r s a t i o n
And wouldn't him imagining kissing his Hannah hallucination in reality be him masturbating to thoughts of her? He's having a wank to thoughts of a dead girl which is disgusting.
Thank you for this honest, well spoken review. This show is a trainwreck. The first season was barely tolerable. They aren't trying to "start a conversation". They are using sensitive subject matter to generate emotional reactions so they can make a profit. It's tactless. There's a way to use topics like suicide, rape, drug use, and bullying to raise awareness but they've gone and turned it all into an incomprehensible, jumbled mess. After the horrible rape Hannah endured, Season 3 wants us to feel sympathy for Bryce the Rapist...the writers can literally fuck off.
14:10 "It's not a complete loss, however."
You cheeky bastard.
Beriorn im confused
Samuel Robertson look up loss meme. The panels look similar to the comic. 
I II
II I_
DID HE JUST
Next IHE: I Hate Loss
oiiiii cheeky lad
Congratulations to the show for making thousands of teenagers think they're an expert on mental illness and now compare everyone and everything remotely connected to it with this show
Fassbrause 007 LITERALLY THIS kids thinking they can spot suicidal signs in people now and recommending this show as help istg
Goat
There was a spike in younger kids attempting to kill themselves (and/or actually succeeding) after the first season. Some even cited the show as the reason they finally made the decision to attempt suicide. If your show handles suicide so poorly it *encourages* people to do it you should not be *allowed* to make a second season.
Abby Nicole is that real? Would I be able to fact check that? Wow..
(im just gonna leave some explination here is anyone is interested)
"After the first season showed a graphic three minute scene of the lead character's suicide, researchers used Google search data to track trends relating to the show and self-harm practices.
The phrase "how to commit suicide" rose 26 percent above the expected rate.
However, searches for "suicide prevention" also increased by 23 percent after the premiere. The paper, published in the Journal of American Medical Association, also found suicide hotline searches rose 21 percent.
The shock value, gory details and mysterious nature of Hannah Baker's suicide is what kept viewers binging, but it's also where Butler draws the line between awareness and glamorizing self-harm.
"13 Reasons Why" centers around Baker leaving messages for her classmates and features flashbacks to her in both seasons. This creates a dangerous portrayal that suicide is not final, Butler said."
-Moore, Lindsay Journal and courier
Nope. Its a quote taken from the Journal and Courier from an artical written by Linsday Moore, I ust left it here in case people wanted to know what the above coment was possibly stateing or implying
Abby Nicole can you please send me an actual newsletter or graph showing evidence that there was a spike? That's a big ass statement.
Abby Nicole oh gracious!😱
“Expect abortion to one of the ‘conversations’ for next season. Cant wait to see how terribly they handle that one”
You were so right, anyone who watched season 3 knows 💀
aidan paul yes they handled it awful
What did they say
*They did it correctly so shut the fukka Appu*
@@snapchatseb.gay9942 I cant tell if you're a troll or weeb
How did they handle it
I deal with depression and anxiety every day, so much that I almost decided to end my own life at one point in time. I take medication now and I've gone through counseling and therapy to get myself back up again. This show is terrible at representing depression and anxiety. It's almost insulting to be honest.
agree 100%. they missed the point entirely. there doesnt have to be a reason to lead to illness. sometimes there is no logical reason for it.
These characters they have reason's, you don't know the guy that typed that comment personally maybe there is a reason for him and he diesn't want say. Whats the point they missed?
there doesn't always have to be a reason for people to be depressed or commit suicide. Clinical Depression is like cancer, you cant cheer up or get to feeling better on your own. and you can feel like shit even if everything in your life is going good. may he rest in peace, but Robin Williams is a good example. loved by millions, wealthy, successful but he still hurt. what they missed is that sometimes people kill themselves and there is no reason. sometimes it comes out of the blue. sometimes there are warnings, but in other cases the person is there one day, and is gone the next. the show also romanticizes suicide quite profoundly, which could lead to people suffering from depression or other maladies to decide to end there lives.
No but these specific characters do like a a lot of people, you would be surprise of how many people go through trauma and brush it aside and keep moving. Using Robin Williams is a bad example cause you don't know him personally, , he weren't around him 24/7 and I have heard other stories too like him taking drugs and stealing jokes, and aside note comedians are the most depressed celebrities spread joy dosen't mean you have any. The people who just "develop" depression that you refer to have no cause and effect then there is story, so there is no cautionary tale they just need help from doctors.
you are still missing the point. there doesnt have to be a reason. Yes people experience trauma. but the message SHOULD be that people who are suicidal seek medical attention. as for unattractive actors, beauty is rather subjective. but anything with reese witherspoon and danny devito i suppose.
Hated this show from the day it was conceived. Paints a terrible picture on mental health and romanticises it
I absolutely hated this show. I myself, as well as my family on my Dad's side have suffered through depression that is linked to genetics. Unfortunately at some points in my life I have thought about suicide (not realizing I had severe depression) and gone without help, I had attempted 3 times before asking for help and on top of that I self-harmed through middle school and a portion of high school. This show is nothing like my experience with this mental illness. When I planned to kill myself, I never even thought of reason why and why not. It didn't matter. All I wanted to do was escape the pain I felt, I wrote a long note of apologies, but I never even thought about questioning my decision. It was horrific to watch how the portrayed the characters like it was a really long thought they had about it, when in reality the anger and sadness and fear builds up inside of you until you just snap.
I was perfectly fine through the "shocking" scenes, I never really learned any empathy for people, but I could see why people would or wouldn't like them. I felt the whole school shooting thing was very strange, but mainly I was confused about why they executed it the way they did. But like most of this show, none of it really made sense.
I hate it when people say "Stop trying to get rid of the show! You need to see this to understand these mental illness's!" when in fact, when you ask real victims of rape, school shootings, suicide, bullying, self harm, etc., they say that the show is complete bullshit. Hell if you even ask a professional, they say the same thing. I feel most of the people who are backing this show like that, either have suffer something they didn't cover, have never suffer any mental illness, or overexaggerate their illness to the point that you can't be sure they even have one.
I could go on forever about this garbage, but I think I have said enough. I hate 13 Reasons Why.
Well said. Whoever you are, wherever you are, I hope you've found happiness.
Exactly, any one who actually experienced depression would find the show rather insulting.
Didn't know that depression is passed through genetics, if that is the case then I got it from my father. We are both sometimes emotionless, and even though he died when I was 3 I could tell just by looking at the pictures of him. He just have this neutral face and I have done this the same way, I just force myself to smile most of the time. Anyway, hope you live a happy life and I'm so glad you decided to get help
Yeah this show was HUGE where I’m from. I live in a small town where there’s little to do, so Netflix is a popular option for most. I overheard girls in my class talking about how “real” it was. I was actually excited to watch it because I really wanted good mental health representation. Off from the start it felt really fake just from the fact that it had reasons as to why they try to commit suicide. The only time I ever tried to come up with “reasons” was when I’m brutally questioned by my parents about why I’m like this and just come up with stuff on the spot that had been bothering me at that point. All in all, it really is just irrational behavior after just a build up of a lot of stress that just manifests itself in the worst way imaginable that you can’t even think straight. I remember back a year and a half ago I tried to kill myself by taking pills after getting into a fight with my sister that turned physical. At that time, I was having constant depressive episodes and my mom and step dad were domestically abusing each other to the point the police were involved and I could barely do any schoolwork. There really is nothing rational about suicide and I can’t believe how misinterpreted it is. Hell, I’ve been called a crack addict that wants to be diagnosed with a “fake” mental health disorder(ADHD), so that I can take Adderall (which I don’t I take Vyvanse) And just the other day that same group of girls told me that Bipolar Disorder and Split Personality Disorder are the same thing.
However, I really do hope that you are in a better place in your life rn.
Wow. Thank you all for the comments... I didnt expect this to get as much attention as it did. In any case, I am doing better than I have been. Thank you for sharing your stories, it means a lot to know that there are actual people out there. I hope you all have an amazing day.
Do you ever think about how Glee handled a school shooting better than this show "sTaRtInG a CoNvErSaTiOn" ever did?
like for real. And the characters sung three songs in its episode!
Really says something that a musical series and an animated show about a talking horse portrayed real issues far better than a supposed "serious drama."
I saw some of that scene. Can you tell me more?
After watching this, I went and relistened to Jeremy by Pearl Jam, which is a song about a kid who shot himself in front his class because he was bullied at school and abused at home. It pretty much conveyed all the themes that 13 Reasons Why is trying to tell, and I'm really disappointed that a 2 season-long show treats these issues with the same or arguably less depth as a 5-minute grunge song.
Never thought i would see something Pearl Jam related in a video about 13 Reasons Why, i'm so happy! Jeremy is such a powerful song tho.
And Jeremy was about both the student who committed suicide in front of his classmates and another student that Eddie Vedder knew who shot up a classroom during school.
the video is really fucked up
I legit did a school project on how problematic romanticizing and normalizing suicide can be in the media with this show as my main focus. There has been copycat suicides from this show as well as several people who killed them selves after watching despite having improved in weeks prior. This show lost all of my respect once I learned it deliberately disobeyed professional advice that told them that this could lead to additional deaths and glossed over these casualties of their carelessness
"but we told people not kill theyselves in the start of da show"
ohhh sounds interesting, if you got any links I wanna check them out to prove people that defend this show wrong.
Jesus Villa
www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/535518/
And also
www.google.com/amp/s/www.refinery29.com/amp/2017/06/158168/13-reasons-why-copycat-suicide-tapes-peru
If you want to watch a Netflix original that tackles some real issues in a creative way, and that feels like each mistake the main character makes has huge consequences, watch Bojack Horseman.
TheAuzman466 “Diane... I need you to tell me that I’m a good person. Please, I need you to tell me that you think I’m a good person.”
THANK YOU THANK YOU T H A N K Y O U
PREACH THIS COMMENT
TheAuzman466 I watch spongebob it shows how one can have a bright outlook on life even though its rough and makes you feel like you drowned
Everyone already did
11:15 "Tyler gets a girlfriend and then blows it" quite literally
Matt Neff I forget dose that he like nut in his pants
Rickety Rail yes