If children of gay parents must wait until 18 to make an informed choice, doesn't that mean all children should wait until 18, instead of being pushed into it at 8 years old?
Not necessarily, when you are baptized when your 8 it's kinda like a rite of passage. You can make decisions for yourself, and repent, but be responsible because your not a kid anymore. If you had everybody wait until they're 18, you'de have a lot more non members because what little kid would want to chose to wake up and go to church at nine o'clock?
+Jenna Calkins No. They baptize when they're young because you don't have critical thinking skills at that age. Most kids at that age still believe in Santa Clause, or the easter bunny. If they had to wait until they were 18, then this religion would be dead.
Jenna Calkins Or the kids would wake up to the fact that they really don't want to join Mommy & Daddy's religion, & therefore wouldn't waste time joining something they honestly want no part of, just to please their parents (or avoid parental pressure).
Carlton Banks If kids had to wait until they were 18 to join religion, most religions would be dead - or far smaller than they are today. After all, "Jesus" (if he existed) didn't join his "Father's" religion until he was 30 years old...
Is he for or against gay marriage? , or is he just bothered that the children cannot be baptized but does he agree with the church's position not to be in favor of gay marriages?
I will say this...since this policy my TBMs have stopped asking if I'm going to baptize my daughter.... Sorry...can't. Any child who can't get baptized will never get baptized. They are losing future members which is GOOD!
While this is by no means their most egregious policy, it seems like it is one of the more blatantly inconsistent (i.e. stupid) policies. Mark my words, within a year the policy will be amended to be less broad. Within 3 years, it will be overhauled to not exclude children of gay parents specifically, but at that same time they will extend it to include transgender parents (at least post-op). Then within 6 years it will essentially revert to the old policy, wink wink, nod nod, know what I mean? So people will still be disciplined, but it wont be called out separately. And lastly within 15 years, the church will remove all of these inconsistent ideas about homosexuality, and will revert to a stance that as long as you are legally married, then you aren't breaking the law of chastity (as the temple ceremony used to say), BUT that your marriage cannot be eternally endorsed in the temple, but you can remain a temple-worthy saint who simply can only make it to the middle tier of the Celestial Kingdom. When these predictions of mine come true, I expect you all to give me 10% of your money and listen to me tell anecdotes every 6 months ;)
+Rob Bates They've already banned pre-op trans people from baptism, and post-op trans people from the priesthood and temple ceremonies. It's in the same handbook as this mess.
+Gwendolyn Stata sorry, that was unclear. I meant the children of transgender persons. So I think in 3 years they wont "prohibit" children living in homes with same sex marriages from getting baptized, but that it will require a special bishop's interview (or some other thing less intense than an exception from the first presidency), but at the same time they will extend that lesser prohibition to children with a transgender parent.
+David Burrows I still predict more amendments within this year to clarify corner cases that don't apply. I also think it will take them several months to finalize it and distribute new manuals.
What's scary is that all this absurd logic really goes through the heads of the fanatical church members! How belief makes the irrational rational is crazy.
Are we not going to talk about how the new policy states that children must reach the age of majority yet allows the children of "faithful" parents to make the same decision at an age far too low to be able to understand what it entails?
My mom was told to hand in her temple recommend because she couldn't pay her tithing. She was being the good Samaritan to my stepdad who was unable to work and had to pay his child support or he would go to jail. My mom had to make a choice between her husband and the church. This was what led her to leave the church. Having to "pay her way" to Heaven didn't sit right with her.
@@leahtheanimationfan40 That’s sad. Wonder if your mom ever asked the church to help? The church may have been able to help even greater than what your mom contributed. They often do.
Membership is conflicted by this. They know that this doesn't feel right.In order to justify this, church leaders HAVE to say that Jesus was wrong.Think about that for a moment....
Okay, Brother Jake... I know you did not publish this on my birthday -- but my birthday was yesterday, so close enough!!! Happy birthday to ME! I love you ! !
This is just so sad. I was actually interested in mormonism I was searching to learn more. Just love so many of the mormon youtube ladies, their great shows led me to explore. But....honestly, a man who won't treat his own brother the way he would want to be treated...can't go any further. Ok I guess I can go further......the whole saving the children by not allowing them in... I think Jesus had something to say about that..goodbye Mormonism
Does this relate to the judge in Utah that's removing a kid from a same-sex foster home? Theoretically, a child in a same-sex foster home can't get the Mormon sauce, ya?
+GaiR BaeR Eventually it will be a good thing if people wake up to reality and leave. In the meantime it's going to cause a lot of pain to a lot of real people. Teen suicide is a big problem in the church and I believe the main cause is children born and raised in the culture realizing eventually that "God" has played the cruelest joke on them: Decree that homosexuality is an abomination, then make them homosexual. So no, in many ways it's not a good thing. It would be far better if the mormon church admitted that the so called "first vision" of Joseph Smith never happened, or that the Book of Mormon is not to be considered history (things they know but won't admit), just as the Jews admitted that the Old Testament and particularly the story of Exodus was fictional. These things wouldn't send a message of hatred and rejection to many of its members, and would help people to make an informed decision.
+Grafight23 I was thinking about this comment for a while. You see I have always been interested in the LDS church. I always wondered what made people in it so aggressive about proselytizing. I was always a very shakey catholic that went to private school. One day I went to public school (4th grade) at the time I had no idea what faith I was in. I kinda took it as you belive god and Jesus love you or you belive a different diety loves you. Everyday I was asked if I was LDS Mormon ect. by almost every kid in the school. It took along time for me to get them to fuck off. Since then I have been agressivly observing behavior patterns. I'm pretty sure I needn't explain the importance of family and authority in the LDS church. Since the religion has these tenants it can lead to very controlling house holds. If you have a descent in opinion your family will just say I'm right your wrong. Now the interesting part. Family being so important to maintain it isn't a choice as a Mormon to leave them...no matter how bad it gets. Not only that there's huge pressure on enjoying your family. This leads to confusion, hatred etc. One of the most fucked up things I heard was in seminary the question "Has a sibling ever abused you" now we all know about tussle and things like that. But this one kid described this event where one brother tried to knock him unconscious so the other could take a aresol can and lighter burning his legs. The kid was like I good times. Turned out that kid had an extremely disfunctional family and didn't even realize it. All of this is to point out the effects with LDS in particular. It's so extreme that most when getting to that point could be like it's difficult but you know I'll manage. But LDS church is life. It's so deeply rooted in that my extremely religious friend is 19 and isn't allowed to see boys alone till she leaves the house. Then just the confusion and contradiction the church brings is enough to drive you mad, you'll convince yourself it's true. This is more the case in LDS than anything I've seen so far. Simply put LDS has its grubby hands on everything declining the incentive to leave.
+GaiR BaeR Very good comment, and what you say is very true. When a community discourages dissent, a lot of messed up stuff happens. Ultimately comes down to "The will of God". God knows better you know. "Be like Nephi, don't question, just GO and DO". Because blind obedience is the highest of all virtues in the LDS world. Religion then becomes tyranny of the worst sort, the kind where one can be condemned for the crime of thinking the wrong way, believing the wrong things, or being the wrong kind of person. But when you're inside you don't see it. Instead you feel like you're one of those privileged few who "know the truth" and has all the answers about life and it's purpose. If you just "follow the gospel" everything will take care of itself. With time you realize that this is an empty promise.
That is amazing, the implications of adding same sex marriages as being a apostate. Wow, has any LDS really thought about how 'not being gay' as being a core teaching? That is just mind blowing, and yet they say they don't have these powerful negative thoughts about people being gay. Also getting the sense that LDS are making double jeopardy for being in a gay relationship, especially that of a formal marriage. Then also triple jeopardy for putting such restrictions on children that may somehow be associated with that marriage. They claim that the US constitution is inspired by god, but even that SECULAR document does not do the double jeopardy thing....
***** Not a good comparison for smoker/non-smoker to gays. Its like comparing vegan/meat and dairy consumers to heterosexuals and homosexuals. Completely different aspects of living. I know LDS are trying to down play this, but the claimed original source in the Torah calls homosexual relations an 'abomination'. This and a longer list of other things. Some translations say that the 'children of Israel' should 'detest' these things, as in dislike intensely....or hate. LDS and many other christians only understand these verses as being homosexual activities of any kind, and not just limited contexts. LDS scripture in D&C 89 does NOT use abomination in connection with LDS prohibited substances or activities. Verse 2 goes on to say this list is NOT a commandment, and not binding. At some other point LDS made this list essential and binding, especially in connection to being 'worthy' to enter the 'temple'. It appears to be an attempt to make an LDS equal to 'kosher'. But misses the mark as it does NOT use abomination, which does not equal the same sense as the use of 'kosher' and maybe not even command in the torah. So no, your comparison isn't a very good one.
***** If the Torah is outdated, why are you making reference to particular elements? (Jews do not believe that the Torah is outdated, and now that I think about it more, christians don't believe its outdated either). Where does the Torah or the christian bible ever call heterosexual sex an abomination? (I am assuming you mean in particular contexts) I am not aware of any direct commentary about smoking in the Bible. Its also irrelevant, except in perhaps your mind. Much like others have tried to make a comparison between alcohol, drugs, murder etc... and homosexuality. Its not smoking, its not drinking, not taking drugs or any other activity. If not-smoking has spiritual value, it makes sense that smoking should be called an 'abomination'. As much as avoiding pork, dog, rat, rabbit or camel, and avoiding other things not food related. LDS WOW was originally just meant as something like 'good advice'. Originally was not a salvation issue, but it became one when questions about it were necessary for entrance into LDS temple. The LDS sense of the word of wisdom is of 'good for you' or 'bad for you'. LDS have a misunderstanding of 'abomination' as mentioned in the torah. For example dietary laws go beyond what is scientifically known about health. As these are 'spiritual' in nature. "Many of the laws of kashrut have no known connection with health. To the best of our modern scientific knowledge, there is no reason why camel or rabbit meat (both treif) is any less healthy than cow or goat meat. " www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm Interesting, now that you brought it up. I believe only PAUL in the Christian texts was worried about homosexual acts in particular contexts. Not the other apostles, not Jesus. I am not sure I understand the point, you said he mentioned adultery. And he loved them. He could have very easily mentioned homosexuality specifically. I don't see it, the LDS 'love' with the policies that the church as an organization has. And political activities in recent years. Difficult to see.
Please give references to certain heterosexual practices as being an abomination. Matt. 5:18 "...until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Sounds like 'Jesus' thinks the Torah is still in effect. Abomination is a perfect word that LDS SHOULD be using, if that makes one 'Unclean' to enter the LDS temple. The LDS don't have such a long list as what is in the torah, but there is a different, if not shorter list. If homosexuality is 'unclean', and an abomination....so is smoking, drinking alcohol, tea, coffee. The LDS version of 'kosher'. However, Christian scriptures do not support complete prohibition of alcohol. Certainly nothing on coffee, tea. (Colossians 2:16) Acts 10:28. "... I should not call anyone impure or unclean."
I don't think I'd leave the church over the Gay issue but I can sure understand leaving the church over the no artifacts in the book of mormon issue after 180 years! And also the "stone in the hat" issue when all the members were told JS had the plates in his hands when he translated! Grant Palmer is truly one of the very best scholars to have ever been in the church and he should not of been treated the way he was! That is going to bite the leaders in the butt if not in the this life, it will in the next!
+thetiler That's not really the issue. Gay/Lesbians parents who are legally married will be "Mandatorily" excommunicated for being apostates. Yet, if you live in Utah or parts of AZ and/or Idaho and all of your cousins, friends get to go to boyscouts, get to be baptized, get to go to YW camp, etc... well, if you can't...you are ostracized. Even though your parent(s) agreed to send you to church to participate in seminary, priesthood, church so that you could be with your peers. Now the only way that you can go to BYU, Mission, temple marriage is to be approved by a G.A. after you have denied the love, strength, courage, learning that your parent(s) have instilled in you. So, it's not just bigotry for the parent(s), it's the ostracizing and bestowing a "curse" upon innocent children.
Hmmm, anyone notice that the LDS term "apostasy" has nothing to do with Christ at all, but solely means to disagree with the CHURCH and its LEADERS (Whom do we worship, even buildings are worshiped before Christ? At least "christ" is still in there, somehwere...). LDS "Apostasy" has NOTHING to do with defying or denying or denouncing Christ? Where'd Christ go, from "His own Church?" "Why do ye polute the holy church of God?" Does Christ want to be as far removed as far as possible from that kinda stuff ("commandments of men, doctrines of devils???")
For a devout Mormon 'the church' is the body that follows Christ. So irreantum is correct that is the view that mormons have. The mistake is saying that gays in a gay marriage are in a state of apostasy. No, they aren't following policy or doctrine, a little different. Its only if they start to teach something else that its a state of apostasy, just like if someone LDS started teaching Islam while at church....something like that...
What if they turn gay when there 18 does that mean they can’t be members and go to vip heaven are gay people not allowed to go to Mormon vip heaven or go to your version of hell till they turn straight
When an autocratic, authoritarian organization such as the Mormon Church has no clear, supreme guiding set of rules or principles (other than the ones the current leadership make up in their own discretion), then words can be re-defined any way the leaders choose to define them. Thus, "Marriage" becomes "Apostasy", "Hate" becomes "Love" and shunning innocent children becomes "Christ-like".
I guess people can't say the Mormons don't believe in the Bibles teaching anymore huh? Because I know of nowhere It speaks of Homosexuality in The Book of Mormon But it does in the Bible.
+Austin Twiwble We believe the bible "as far as it's translated correctly" which means we can take or leave anything we want. Even though the book of mormon constantly quotes the mistranslated KJV. And also despite the fact that the book of mormon claims that "John, the apostle of the lamb" wrote the book of Revelation in the bible, which we now know to be false (But Joseph Smith didn't)
Where in the world are you getting your info from? "Which means we can take or leave anything we want..." ummmm, no. That is incorrect sir. We believe it as far as it is translated correctly. That's it, period.
Actually they wouldn't let Maddie Brown join the church unless she disavowed her family's polygamous faith, minimized her contact with them and didn't appear on the show 'sister wives' anymore.
It's not about Love! It's all about Church controlling People. God would never had the child to disinvow a parent. this is not the childs fault, but the church is controlling, says the child can not be a member or go on a mission until the disown a parent & pass a test that the church will prepare. I have a problem with the church dictating, discriminating, & punishing the child. it's out of their control. Yet church will rule. I know this is not from God. The Churches must stay out of Gov't as well.
There is a religion that believes that GOD or Heavenly Father is GAY. And they will not persecute those people who thinks that god is a straight male, but will make love to you.
PLEASE READ THIS: Here's a direct quote from Spencer W. Kimball, 12th prophet and president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: "This heinous homosexual sin is of the ages. Many cities and civilizations have gone out of existence because of it." ~~~~~~
my moms are my LEGAL parents, only because I have a doner (that's how I'm alive.) I don't really agree with Mormon views , but this guy makes sense. I'm also Jewish though😄... so that makes more sense... anyhow... this was interesting.
I thought satire was supposed to be funny and based on truth with a twist. This was not funny, nor was it factual and if you want to get into a debate on homosexuality and the Bible, that is your choice, but I suggest you take it up with God. As a TBM as you like to refer to us, I would like to make several clarifications on points. One, I would like to reference people to this: www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/commentary-understanding-the-handbook, Now I know many of you will simply ignore the actual link that clarifies instead of mocks the LDS church's position, which is fine with me because you are all going to hell anyway, so why would I care? (that was a joke btw). If you understood Mormon doctrine you would actually realize that we do not really believe in the Christian hell of fire and damnation really. In fact, even the gayest murdering animal out there, say Jeffery Dalhmer will actually end up in a form of heaven compared to the hell perceived by most Christians. So why would the LDS church institute this policy? and what do they always add as a caveat as pointed out in this hit piece? It is up to the discretion of leadership. How many actively gay people with children attend a church that is believed to hate them anyway? 10? 20? 1? I have no idea, nor do I care to know. Mormon's believe that all sin, whether homosexual, straight, or unrelated to sex keeps us from receiving the fullness of the Gospel of Christ. We believe Jesus when he states, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." Those commandments include abiding in love, loving God, loving our neighbor, staying watchful, and not engaging in sinful activity. Even with the woman caught in adultery, while Christ prevented her stoning, he did not let her off the hook, but said, "Nor do I condemn thee, GO AND SIN NO MORE." Some modern Christians act as if Christ was okay with us just sinning all we want and all will be fine. This is most certainly not the case. "If ye love me, keep my commandments," cannot be much more clear. He is the way, the truth and the life and no man comes unto the father but by him. as stated in John 14:6. I know I am casting my pearls before swine figuratively, but if you honestly want to know how Mormon's truly believe, the website is open to everyone, including handbooks, instructions, teachings ect... You can even learn about Joseph Smith and polygamy. www.LDS.org. If you do not like the church, I am fine with that, in fact I am good with that. We all have our course in life to follow and we all grow line upon line precept upon precept here a little there a little. There is no question that none of us is perfect, nor will any of us obtain this in this life. We only have hope of perfection by following the Holy Messiah, even Jesus Christ. I pray for all of you to seek the light of the Lord, to follow his example and I trust I will someday see you in heaven.
Did I say he was lying? No, I said he was factually incorrect. I did not find it funny, but to be honest, I do not find most childish satire entertaining. There is a big difference between calling someone a liar and misinformed. I provided information, a lot of it actually and links for you to look at, it is your choice to keep your head in the sand.
I thought satire was supposed to be based on truth is what you wrote and said it was not facutal. If it isnt truth it is a lie whether it was intentional or not. So basically you can't point out where he was not "factually correct." And all you do to prove him wrong is two links that offer no new information? Yep i am definitely the one with my head in the sand.
+BriantheRight Pro tip: Avoid the term "gayest murdering animal" also avoid calling people swine if even figuratively. Also, I wouldn't bring up the stoning part - somebody might get the idea that the prophets of the old testament were not moral. Also, how was the video not factual specifically? I would have started with that.
Mockery and satire does not bring us together, but merely divides us more. Where the Church stands: (Official Statement) The experience of same-sex attraction is a complex reality for many people. The attraction itself is not a sin, but acting on it is. Even though individuals do not choose to have such attractions, they do choose how to respond to them. With love and understanding, the Church reaches out to all God’s children, including our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters. mormonsandgays.org/
+cdowis Well gee, sounds like mockery and satire is a two-edged sword intended for dividing people similar to how the words of Mormon Jesus are a two-edged sword that divides people. So since you worship a divider, why would you want to be brought together with your spiritual sinenemies?
If two heterosexual parents are cohabiting, they can get married. If two men or women are married, it's a little more difficult for that couple to integrate into the LDS Church. I don't get why the critics can't get over themselves.
Braedon Davies the reason this policy is criticized is that it basically pins any converts who had homosexual parents into throwing their parents under the bus and saying it’s an abomination before god. Having grown up with gay parents, al though the environment would probably be different from a traditional household, they’d likely have a positive association with their upbringing, and wouldn’t see how their parents lifestyle could be a sin
IF we were in a Theocracy and the mormon were imposing this teaching on people THAT would be a problem...but we are not, so it isn't. Instead of playing the victim, gays should just leave the mormon church, and take their children with them. Mormons in general do not hate gays. Disagreeing with gay marriage does not mean they hate gays. That's like saying people who oppose plural marriage hate mormons.
Except, you prejudiced POS, they control the politics of at least two US states and can apply all their abuses across the board. And where is a gay child going to get solace in a family in this awful religion you protect? These children commit suicide at huge rates in Utah, so you, you judgmental POS, are killing children. May you rot in hell.
Jeremy Curle You realize that "non-Mormon" refers to everybody in the world except about 14 million people, mostly Utahans, right? You just said that about half the people in Utah and the vast majority of people outside of Utah are stupid. For a church that prides itself in its understanding of the pride cycle, a lot of you are rather prideful.
Actually, it is about love and compassion. Can you imagine going to church where we teach marriage is between women and men only, and then going home and having the exact opposite? This video is terrible.
***** I'm not going to engage in this or give you the satisfaction of any conversation past this comment. You're aggressive, and your mind is made up so good day to you.
Its about exclusion. At the very core of the LDS faith is exclusion on many, many fronts. The LDS temple states "holiness to the Lord". LDS believe that being gay is an 'abomination'. They are trying to soften the message, but there it is...no unlcean thing can enter the temple.
The policy sounds like an invitation to leave, and why shouldn't they? The church doesn't want gay people.Gays can then get on with their life, and Mormons with theirs. From what I understand is that they don't care how many leave...don't let the door hit you on the rear-end, that sort of thing. Catholics? what does that have to do with anything? Might as well have said Aghoris aren't holy and strict.... My partner was raised catholic, and his family isn't strict at all about just about anything. LDS believe that the catholic faith is apostate and a lie, along with every other religion.
So, you agree that this has little to do with current discussion? Shall we ask what Aghoris think? We are talking about LDS thought here. It still stands, the LDS view is that all other religions are false to greater or lesser degrees....
If children of gay parents must wait until 18 to make an informed choice, doesn't that mean all children should wait until 18, instead of being pushed into it at 8 years old?
+AxelQC Absolutely agree; excellent point!
Not necessarily, when you are baptized when your 8 it's kinda like a rite of passage. You can make decisions for yourself, and repent, but be responsible because your not a kid anymore. If you had everybody wait until they're 18, you'de have a lot more non members because what little kid would want to chose to wake up and go to church at nine o'clock?
+Jenna Calkins No. They baptize when they're young because you don't have critical thinking skills at that age. Most kids at that age still believe in Santa Clause, or the easter bunny. If they had to wait until they were 18, then this religion would be dead.
Jenna Calkins Or the kids would wake up to the fact that they really don't want to join Mommy & Daddy's religion, & therefore wouldn't waste time joining something they honestly want no part of, just to please their parents (or avoid parental pressure).
Carlton Banks If kids had to wait until they were 18 to join religion, most religions would be dead - or far smaller than they are today.
After all, "Jesus" (if he existed) didn't join his "Father's" religion until he was 30 years old...
I feel like my TBM mom would explain in all of these same words and then be like "There, see? It's all about love!"
you are a racist
+Logan Wilding You are my husband!
This is satire, folks. And pretty darn good when it's tough to tell the difference.
how is it tough to tell the difference? uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
I'm not surprised some can't tell. He presents it in such a beautiful way that it doesn't really seem so "offensive". I dig it.
So the whole video is made to prove that we hate gays or just the opposite?
Is he for or against gay marriage? , or is he just bothered that the children cannot be baptized but does he agree with the church's position not to be in favor of gay marriages?
@@mykingdom7121 Mormons are in a fucking cult and are evil
Please do a video about Planet Kolob. Pretty please.
Dear Zues, Christofferson looks like he's trying to swallow a bag of marbles while giving that explanation.
I will say this...since this policy my TBMs have stopped asking if I'm going to baptize my daughter.... Sorry...can't. Any child who can't get baptized will never get baptized. They are losing future members which is GOOD!
As always, Brother Jake makes all the non-sense make sense.
+steevf Just like a real preacher!
Totally agree with steevf.
As always, brilliant. A repulsive policy from a church that has constantly been 20 years behind the times. Keep up the good work. Pip pip
only 20 years?
While this is by no means their most egregious policy, it seems like it is one of the more blatantly inconsistent (i.e. stupid) policies.
Mark my words, within a year the policy will be amended to be less broad.
Within 3 years, it will be overhauled to not exclude children of gay parents specifically, but at that same time they will extend it to include transgender parents (at least post-op).
Then within 6 years it will essentially revert to the old policy, wink wink, nod nod, know what I mean? So people will still be disciplined, but it wont be called out separately.
And lastly within 15 years, the church will remove all of these inconsistent ideas about homosexuality, and will revert to a stance that as long as you are legally married, then you aren't breaking the law of chastity (as the temple ceremony used to say), BUT that your marriage cannot be eternally endorsed in the temple, but you can remain a temple-worthy saint who simply can only make it to the middle tier of the Celestial Kingdom.
When these predictions of mine come true, I expect you all to give me 10% of your money and listen to me tell anecdotes every 6 months ;)
+Rob Bates They've already banned pre-op trans people from baptism, and post-op trans people from the priesthood and temple ceremonies. It's in the same handbook as this mess.
+Gwendolyn Stata sorry, that was unclear. I meant the children of transgender persons. So I think in 3 years they wont "prohibit" children living in homes with same sex marriages from getting baptized, but that it will require a special bishop's interview (or some other thing less intense than an exception from the first presidency), but at the same time they will extend that lesser prohibition to children with a transgender parent.
+Rob Bates You are true prophet! Amended today, wow that was fast....
+David Burrows I still predict more amendments within this year to clarify corner cases that don't apply. I also think it will take them several months to finalize it and distribute new manuals.
+David Burrows Wait what? I had not heard about it getting amended.
Brother Jake, you've done it again! I will always look to you to explain all church policies.
What's scary is that all this absurd logic really goes through the heads of the fanatical church members! How belief makes the irrational rational is crazy.
I officially LOVE LOVE LOVE you for coming to the quick rescue to help our befuddled minds work through this! THANK YOU Brother Jake!
Are we not going to talk about how the new policy states that children must reach the age of majority yet allows the children of "faithful" parents to make the same decision at an age far too low to be able to understand what it entails?
Several years ago I was told I was unworthy to where my garments and go to the temple because I support gay marriage.
My mom was told to hand in her temple recommend because she couldn't pay her tithing. She was being the good Samaritan to my stepdad who was unable to work and had to pay his child support or he would go to jail. My mom had to make a choice between her husband and the church. This was what led her to leave the church. Having to "pay her way" to Heaven didn't sit right with her.
@@leahtheanimationfan40 That’s sad. Wonder if your mom ever asked the church to help? The church may have been able to help even greater than what your mom contributed. They often do.
This policy was the catalyst for my nuclear family's gradual departure from the Mormon church.
Membership is conflicted by this. They know that this doesn't feel right.In order to justify this, church leaders HAVE to say that Jesus was wrong.Think about that for a moment....
+ny_kia31 Saying Jesus was wrong isn't something new. Heck, Joseph Smith Jr. said he was a better religious leader than Jesus.
Level the playing field - No one be baptized until they are 18 and have them watch all of brother Jakes videos before doing so.
Okay, Brother Jake... I know you did not publish this on my birthday -- but my birthday was yesterday, so close enough!!! Happy birthday to ME! I love you ! !
This is just so sad. I was actually interested in mormonism I was searching to learn more. Just love so many of the mormon youtube ladies, their great shows led me to explore. But....honestly, a man who won't treat his own brother the way he would want to be treated...can't go any further. Ok I guess I can go further......the whole saving the children by not allowing them in... I think Jesus had something to say about that..goodbye Mormonism
ahh you did it!!! Thanks as always for the entertaining and enlightening videos :)
Jake, this made me laugh so hard I cried. Thanks for this. :)
Does this relate to the judge in Utah that's removing a kid from a same-sex foster home? Theoretically, a child in a same-sex foster home can't get the Mormon sauce, ya?
Thank you for the laughs!!
As someone who watched this video first... I couldn't tell if which way Poe's Law swigged on this one.
A+ Job.
I see all the policies as posotive. Hopefully people are so repulsed by the idea of joining it turns more fringe than the 7th day adventists.
+GaiR BaeR Eventually it will be a good thing if people wake up to reality and leave. In the meantime it's going to cause a lot of pain to a lot of real people. Teen suicide is a big problem in the church and I believe the main cause is children born and raised in the culture realizing eventually that "God" has played the cruelest joke on them: Decree that homosexuality is an abomination, then make them homosexual. So no, in many ways it's not a good thing.
It would be far better if the mormon church admitted that the so called "first vision" of Joseph Smith never happened, or that the Book of Mormon is not to be considered history (things they know but won't admit), just as the Jews admitted that the Old Testament and particularly the story of Exodus was fictional. These things wouldn't send a message of hatred and rejection to many of its members, and would help people to make an informed decision.
+Grafight23 I was thinking about this comment for a while. You see I have always been interested in the LDS church. I always wondered what made people in it so aggressive about proselytizing. I was always a very shakey catholic that went to private school. One day I went to public school (4th grade) at the time I had no idea what faith I was in. I kinda took it as you belive god and Jesus love you or you belive a different diety loves you. Everyday I was asked if I was LDS Mormon ect. by almost every kid in the school. It took along time for me to get them to fuck off. Since then I have been agressivly observing behavior patterns.
I'm pretty sure I needn't explain the importance of family and authority in the LDS church. Since the religion has these tenants it can lead to very controlling house holds. If you have a descent in opinion your family will just say I'm right your wrong. Now the interesting part. Family being so important to maintain it isn't a choice as a Mormon to leave them...no matter how bad it gets. Not only that there's huge pressure on enjoying your family. This leads to confusion, hatred etc. One of the most fucked up things I heard was in seminary the question "Has a sibling ever abused you" now we all know about tussle and things like that. But this one kid described this event where one brother tried to knock him unconscious so the other could take a aresol can and lighter burning his legs. The kid was like I good times. Turned out that kid had an extremely disfunctional family and didn't even realize it.
All of this is to point out the effects with LDS in particular. It's so extreme that most when getting to that point could be like it's difficult but you know I'll manage. But LDS church is life. It's so deeply rooted in that my extremely religious friend is 19 and isn't allowed to see boys alone till she leaves the house. Then just the confusion and contradiction the church brings is enough to drive you mad, you'll convince yourself it's true. This is more the case in LDS than anything I've seen so far. Simply put LDS has its grubby hands on everything declining the incentive to leave.
+GaiR BaeR Very good comment, and what you say is very true. When a community discourages dissent, a lot of messed up stuff happens. Ultimately comes down to "The will of God". God knows better you know. "Be like Nephi, don't question, just GO and DO". Because blind obedience is the highest of all virtues in the LDS world.
Religion then becomes tyranny of the worst sort, the kind where one can be condemned for the crime of thinking the wrong way, believing the wrong things, or being the wrong kind of person.
But when you're inside you don't see it. Instead you feel like you're one of those privileged few who "know the truth" and has all the answers about life and it's purpose. If you just "follow the gospel" everything will take care of itself. With time you realize that this is an empty promise.
Thanks for all of your videos!
That is amazing, the implications of adding same sex marriages as being a apostate. Wow, has any LDS really thought about how 'not being gay' as being a core teaching? That is just mind blowing, and yet they say they don't have these powerful negative thoughts about people being gay. Also getting the sense that LDS are making double jeopardy for being in a gay relationship, especially that of a formal marriage. Then also triple jeopardy for putting such restrictions on children that may somehow be associated with that marriage. They claim that the US constitution is inspired by god, but even that SECULAR document does not do the double jeopardy thing....
***** Not a good comparison for smoker/non-smoker to gays. Its like comparing vegan/meat and dairy consumers to heterosexuals and homosexuals. Completely different aspects of living.
I know LDS are trying to down play this, but the claimed original source in the Torah calls homosexual relations an 'abomination'. This and a longer list of other things. Some translations say that the 'children of Israel' should 'detest' these things, as in dislike intensely....or hate. LDS and many other christians only understand these verses as being homosexual activities of any kind, and not just limited contexts.
LDS scripture in D&C 89 does NOT use abomination in connection with LDS prohibited substances or activities. Verse 2 goes on to say this list is NOT a commandment, and not binding. At some other point LDS made this list essential and binding, especially in connection to being 'worthy' to enter the 'temple'. It appears to be an attempt to make an LDS equal to 'kosher'. But misses the mark as it does NOT use abomination, which does not equal the same sense as the use of 'kosher' and maybe not even command in the torah. So no, your comparison isn't a very good one.
***** If the Torah is outdated, why are you making reference to particular elements? (Jews do not believe that the Torah is outdated, and now that I think about it more, christians don't believe its outdated either).
Where does the Torah or the christian bible ever call heterosexual sex an abomination? (I am assuming you mean in particular contexts)
I am not aware of any direct commentary about smoking in the Bible. Its also irrelevant, except in perhaps your mind. Much like others have tried to make a comparison between alcohol, drugs, murder etc... and homosexuality. Its not smoking, its not drinking, not taking drugs or any other activity.
If not-smoking has spiritual value, it makes sense that smoking should be called an 'abomination'. As much as avoiding pork, dog, rat, rabbit or camel, and avoiding other things not food related.
LDS WOW was originally just meant as something like 'good advice'. Originally was not a salvation issue, but it became one when questions about it were necessary for entrance into LDS temple. The LDS sense of the word of wisdom is of 'good for you' or 'bad for you'. LDS have a misunderstanding of 'abomination' as mentioned in the torah. For example dietary laws go beyond what is scientifically known about health. As these are 'spiritual' in nature.
"Many of the laws of kashrut have no known connection with health. To the best of our modern scientific knowledge, there is no reason why camel or rabbit meat (both treif) is any less healthy than cow or goat meat. "
www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm
Interesting, now that you brought it up. I believe only PAUL in the Christian texts was worried about homosexual acts in particular contexts. Not the other apostles, not Jesus. I am not sure I understand the point, you said he mentioned adultery. And he loved them. He could have very easily mentioned homosexuality specifically.
I don't see it, the LDS 'love' with the policies that the church as an organization has. And political activities in recent years. Difficult to see.
Please give references to certain heterosexual practices as being an abomination.
Matt. 5:18 "...until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Sounds like 'Jesus' thinks the Torah is still in effect.
Abomination is a perfect word that LDS SHOULD be using, if that makes one 'Unclean' to enter the LDS temple. The LDS don't have such a long list as what is in the torah, but there is a different, if not shorter list. If homosexuality is 'unclean', and an abomination....so is smoking, drinking alcohol, tea, coffee. The LDS version of 'kosher'. However, Christian scriptures do not support complete prohibition of alcohol. Certainly nothing on coffee, tea. (Colossians 2:16)
Acts 10:28. "... I should not call anyone impure or unclean."
I don't think I'd leave the church over the Gay issue but I can sure understand leaving the church over the no artifacts in the book of mormon issue after 180 years! And also the "stone in the hat" issue when all the members were told JS had the plates in his hands when he translated! Grant Palmer is truly one of the very best scholars to have ever been in the church and he should not of been treated the way he was! That is going to bite the leaders in the butt if not in the this life, it will in the next!
+thetiler That's not really the issue. Gay/Lesbians parents who are legally married will be "Mandatorily" excommunicated for being apostates. Yet, if you live in Utah or parts of AZ and/or Idaho and all of your cousins, friends get to go to boyscouts, get to be baptized, get to go to YW camp, etc... well, if you can't...you are ostracized. Even though your parent(s) agreed to send you to church to participate in seminary, priesthood, church so that you could be with your peers. Now the only way that you can go to BYU, Mission, temple marriage is to be approved by a G.A. after you have denied the love, strength, courage, learning that your parent(s) have instilled in you. So, it's not just bigotry for the parent(s), it's the ostracizing and bestowing a "curse" upon innocent children.
The Apostasy music and wolf scare the shit out of me. Every time.
Nailed it! I heart you Brother Jake.
what sup with that momons guys eyes? did he have a stoke?
And I love his name, Christ-offer-son.
+Wendy Perry Holy crap that is too funny.
Hmmm, anyone notice that the LDS term "apostasy" has nothing to do with Christ at all, but solely means to disagree with the CHURCH and its LEADERS (Whom do we worship, even buildings are worshiped before Christ? At least "christ" is still in there, somehwere...).
LDS "Apostasy" has NOTHING to do with defying or denying or denouncing Christ? Where'd Christ go, from "His own Church?" "Why do ye polute the holy church of God?"
Does Christ want to be as far removed as far as possible from that kinda stuff ("commandments of men, doctrines of devils???")
For a devout Mormon 'the church' is the body that follows Christ. So irreantum is correct that is the view that mormons have. The mistake is saying that gays in a gay marriage are in a state of apostasy. No, they aren't following policy or doctrine, a little different. Its only if they start to teach something else that its a state of apostasy, just like if someone LDS started teaching Islam while at church....something like that...
I like Gaygatron.
B Jake just uploaded a new video? YAAAAAAAAAAAHHHSSSSSS!
So the children are to disown their gay parents?
+Jason T Scott-West Yep. The term they use is "disavow"
Hats of to BJ. You now officially have a new convert to your channel.
I love the sound effect for "apostasy"!
Isn’t getting baptized and confirmed supposed to keep those “impure” teachings out?
HAHAHA GAYGATRON!!!
Adam McGrath Megaytron would be better.
You need a Patreon
What if they turn gay when there 18 does that mean they can’t be members and go to vip heaven are gay people not allowed to go to Mormon vip heaven or go to your version of hell till they turn straight
Hey are your parents still fully members of the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints of eternity?
Mormons?
Like The Onion for mormons. XM talking
"its not about ostracizing..." how is ostracizing them..not about ostracizing. this policy is not about love.......
When an autocratic, authoritarian organization such as the Mormon Church has no clear, supreme guiding set of rules or principles (other than the ones the current leadership make up in their own discretion), then words can be re-defined any way the leaders choose to define them. Thus, "Marriage" becomes "Apostasy", "Hate" becomes "Love" and shunning innocent children becomes "Christ-like".
Ever heard of sarcasm or satire?
I guess people can't say the Mormons don't believe in the Bibles teaching anymore huh? Because I know of nowhere It speaks of Homosexuality in The Book of Mormon
But it does in the Bible.
We read the bible as well as the the Book of Mormon, so we've always beloved it to be this way
I think you mean Believed not Beloved.The point is many say the LDS do not follow the Bible but clearly in this they are.
+Austin Twiwble We believe the bible "as far as it's translated correctly" which means we can take or leave anything we want. Even though the book of mormon constantly quotes the mistranslated KJV. And also despite the fact that the book of mormon claims that "John, the apostle of the lamb" wrote the book of Revelation in the bible, which we now know to be false (But Joseph Smith didn't)
Where in the world are you getting your info from? "Which means we can take or leave anything we want..." ummmm, no. That is incorrect sir. We believe it as far as it is translated correctly. That's it, period.
The BOM states parts are completely missing, some corrupted, Different from translated wrong.
Actually they wouldn't let Maddie Brown join the church unless she disavowed her family's polygamous faith, minimized her contact with them and didn't appear on the show 'sister wives' anymore.
Thank you for explaining this
Wow i got confused at first cuz i didnt know it was sarcasm
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic some times?
The vid is satire
Well, can't argue with that.
PLEASE ADD OFFICIAL CAPTIONS YOU SPEAK SO QUICKLY I CANT KEEP UP SOS SOS SOS
Cara 'The Little Windsong' He does speak fast. There’s a playback option on UA-cam to speed up or slow down.
sure, techincally Joseph Smith was married to men but whatever, right?
good job towing the party line
Neo...MK Ultra has you...and this church runs it.
You're awesome lol.
If you can get judged for the sins of your fathers, then I've got some things to say to Steve Young.
It's not about Love! It's all about Church controlling People. God would never had the child to disinvow a parent. this is not the childs fault, but the church is controlling, says the child can not be a member or go on a mission until the disown a parent & pass a test that the church will prepare. I have a problem with the church dictating, discriminating, & punishing the child. it's out of their control. Yet church will rule. I know this is not from God. The Churches must stay out of Gov't as well.
is this guy the voice of holy kool aid?
No. That guy (Thomas Westbrook, also great) is a former member of a different brand of conservative Christianity.
There is a religion that believes that GOD or Heavenly Father is GAY. And they will not persecute those people who thinks that god is a straight male, but will make love to you.
PLEASE READ THIS:
Here's a direct quote from Spencer W. Kimball, 12th prophet and president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints:
"This heinous homosexual sin is of the ages. Many cities and civilizations have gone out of existence because of it."
~~~~~~
+Kitty Kitty Is that because it started a holy war and everyone killed each other out of love and in the name of god?
my moms are my LEGAL parents, only because I have a doner (that's how I'm alive.) I don't really agree with Mormon views , but this guy makes sense. I'm also Jewish though😄... so that makes more sense... anyhow... this was interesting.
poes law...that is all
Isnt religion wunnerful?
Well at least Muslims love gays!
i need a brother Muhammed. to understand Islam.
like! but the kids are allowed to have blessings.
SMART GUY
Don't swear! It's a sin.
Yeah. Damnit. I wish Brother Jake would quit his damn sinning.
Lds policy
wow. thank you for this. but it doesn't counteract the crazy
so what? if let's go as same-sex marriages and the does i love you!!! it's does the homosexuales in world is gay preinudrra!
+Ricardo Perez Castillo Uhm... what?
+Dave Astle
I think that's Google Translate. :D
my Ricardo so if bye bye set happy day for l'll i'm gay and my dave astle!!! Ricardo's but off on dave's is gay???? no,thank you dave!
Childish.
Classic. Yet another Mormon apologist with porcelain teeth. You Mormons are so very pretty on the exterior! Love ya!
It's satire
+Preston Crosby en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
Yup, sums it up. It comforts me to think that things like feminism and these christian creationists are just trolls.
ya... comfort...
+Preston Crosby I know that. so what is wrong with my comment?
paul larson Poe's Law is strong in this thread... I guess you weren't serious... :P
Still pretty homophobic but o k
This video is satire. It's showing how ridiculous Mormon views are.
I was the 666th person to like this video.
Gaygatron lol
So youve always been bigoted idiots! Well that clears that up!
You don't have to consciously hate gay people to be a homophobe.
I thought satire was supposed to be funny and based on truth with a twist. This was not funny, nor was it factual and if you want to get into a debate on homosexuality and the Bible, that is your choice, but I suggest you take it up with God. As a TBM as you like to refer to us, I would like to make several clarifications on points. One, I would like to reference people to this: www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/commentary-understanding-the-handbook, Now I know many of you will simply ignore the actual link that clarifies instead of mocks the LDS church's position, which is fine with me because you are all going to hell anyway, so why would I care? (that was a joke btw). If you understood Mormon doctrine you would actually realize that we do not really believe in the Christian hell of fire and damnation really. In fact, even the gayest murdering animal out there, say Jeffery Dalhmer will actually end up in a form of heaven compared to the hell perceived by most Christians. So why would the LDS church institute this policy? and what do they always add as a caveat as pointed out in this hit piece? It is up to the discretion of leadership. How many actively gay people with children attend a church that is believed to hate them anyway? 10? 20? 1? I have no idea, nor do I care to know. Mormon's believe that all sin, whether homosexual, straight, or unrelated to sex keeps us from receiving the fullness of the Gospel of Christ. We believe Jesus when he states, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." Those commandments include abiding in love, loving God, loving our neighbor, staying watchful, and not engaging in sinful activity. Even with the woman caught in adultery, while Christ prevented her stoning, he did not let her off the hook, but said, "Nor do I condemn thee, GO AND SIN NO MORE." Some modern Christians act as if Christ was okay with us just sinning all we want and all will be fine. This is most certainly not the case. "If ye love me, keep my commandments," cannot be much more clear. He is the way, the truth and the life and no man comes unto the father but by him. as stated in John 14:6. I know I am casting my pearls before swine figuratively, but if you honestly want to know how Mormon's truly believe, the website is open to everyone, including handbooks, instructions, teachings ect... You can even learn about Joseph Smith and polygamy. www.LDS.org. If you do not like the church, I am fine with that, in fact I am good with that. We all have our course in life to follow and we all grow line upon line precept upon precept here a little there a little. There is no question that none of us is perfect, nor will any of us obtain this in this life. We only have hope of perfection by following the Holy Messiah, even Jesus Christ. I pray for all of you to seek the light of the Lord, to follow his example and I trust I will someday see you in heaven.
+BriantheRight Can you point out how he was lying? No? Well okay then. And for the record this was pretty damn funny.
Did I say he was lying? No, I said he was factually incorrect. I did not find it funny, but to be honest, I do not find most childish satire entertaining. There is a big difference between calling someone a liar and misinformed. I provided information, a lot of it actually and links for you to look at, it is your choice to keep your head in the sand.
I thought satire was supposed to be based on truth is what you wrote and said it was not facutal. If it isnt truth it is a lie whether it was intentional or not. So basically you can't point out where he was not "factually correct." And all you do to prove him wrong is two links that offer no new information? Yep i am definitely the one with my head in the sand.
+BriantheRight Pro tip: Avoid the term "gayest murdering animal" also avoid calling people swine if even figuratively. Also, I wouldn't bring up the stoning part - somebody might get the idea that the prophets of the old testament were not moral. Also, how was the video not factual specifically? I would have started with that.
Mockery and satire does not bring us together, but merely divides us more.
Where the Church stands: (Official Statement)
The experience of same-sex attraction is a complex reality for many people. The attraction itself is not a sin, but acting on it is. Even though individuals do not choose to have such attractions, they do choose how to respond to them. With love and understanding, the Church reaches out to all God’s children, including our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters.
mormonsandgays.org/
+cdowis Well gee, sounds like mockery and satire is a two-edged sword intended for dividing people similar to how the words of Mormon Jesus are a two-edged sword that divides people. So since you worship a divider, why would you want to be brought together with your spiritual sinenemies?
+cdowis preach
No sir, that's not love. Love is overcoming your own hate and bigotry and accepting others the way they are.
If two heterosexual parents are cohabiting, they can get married. If two men or women are married, it's a little more difficult for that couple to integrate into the LDS Church. I don't get why the critics can't get over themselves.
Braedon Davies the reason this policy is criticized is that it basically pins any converts who had homosexual parents into throwing their parents under the bus and saying it’s an abomination before god. Having grown up with gay parents, al though the environment would probably be different from a traditional household, they’d likely have a positive association with their upbringing, and wouldn’t see how their parents lifestyle could be a sin
Dumbass, homosexuals can get married in the US. Are you from Saudi Arabia, or are you just dense in your inability to form a consistent argument?
IF we were in a Theocracy and the mormon were imposing this teaching on people THAT would be a problem...but we are not, so it isn't.
Instead of playing the victim, gays should just leave the mormon church, and take their children with them.
Mormons in general do not hate gays. Disagreeing with gay marriage does not mean they hate gays. That's like saying people who oppose plural marriage hate mormons.
Not giving gay people the same rights straight people enjoy, simply because the gay people are gay is not hostile twards gay people...? Sureeeeeee
Except, you prejudiced POS, they control the politics of at least two US states and can apply all their abuses across the board. And where is a gay child going to get solace in a family in this awful religion you protect? These children commit suicide at huge rates in Utah, so you, you judgmental POS, are killing children. May you rot in hell.
It seems like no matter how hard Mormons try to and honestly explain their beliefs, people still have problems with it.
Non mormons' brains are too little to understand something so simple
Jeremy Curle You realize that "non-Mormon" refers to everybody in the world except about 14 million people, mostly Utahans, right? You just said that about half the people in Utah and the vast majority of people outside of Utah are stupid. For a church that prides itself in its understanding of the pride cycle, a lot of you are rather prideful.
The vid is satire...
Actually, it is about love and compassion. Can you imagine going to church where we teach marriage is between women and men only, and then going home and having the exact opposite? This video is terrible.
*****
I'm not going to engage in this or give you the satisfaction of any conversation past this comment. You're aggressive, and your mind is made up so good day to you.
Its about exclusion. At the very core of the LDS faith is exclusion on many, many fronts. The LDS temple states "holiness to the Lord". LDS believe that being gay is an 'abomination'. They are trying to soften the message, but there it is...no unlcean thing can enter the temple.
The policy sounds like an invitation to leave, and why shouldn't they? The church doesn't want gay people.Gays can then get on with their life, and Mormons with theirs. From what I understand is that they don't care how many leave...don't let the door hit you on the rear-end, that sort of thing.
Catholics? what does that have to do with anything? Might as well have said Aghoris aren't holy and strict.... My partner was raised catholic, and his family isn't strict at all about just about anything. LDS believe that the catholic faith is apostate and a lie, along with every other religion.
So, you agree that this has little to do with current discussion? Shall we ask what Aghoris think? We are talking about LDS thought here. It still stands, the LDS view is that all other religions are false to greater or lesser degrees....
If you don't already, take what they say with a grain of salt...maybe several.
Congratulations, you just do the same catholic church is been doing for decades now.