jdwartena Y'all might want to check out my podcast. I've been crossdressing to religious services while standing for the marginalized ever since learning of #Mormon women who received death threats for starting 'Wear Pants to Church Day': crossdresstochurch.wordpress.com/
This would be a lot funnier if I hadn't ever said the exact BS excuses listed in this video. It really is terribly embarrassing to realize was a complete propaganda-drone I was when I was LDS :-(
Christian Hawes hang in there. The transition can be a rough ride. I'm 5 years in, and family/friends still sometimes freak out. It does get better though :-)
Brother Jake, if I were gay, I could, with every fiber of my being, say, "I LOVE YOU", but I am not gay, so I have to say "I LOVE YOU BRO"!, (but I don't plan to act on it.
When I requested my name to be removed from the church, I got a letter asking me to come to a disciplinary counsel. Never went of course. Nope, no “sins” other than no longer believing and asking my name to be removed.
I don't think there's ever been a Court of Love where the outcome was not pre-determined before the accused stepped into the room. Also, has anyone EVER heard of a Court of Love where the accused was exonerated?
Aww Shiz, I handed out excommunications like they were party favors. I always hooked a brother back up with a sweet apostle gig if he was willing to say sorry.
Brother Jake, I just wanted to say thank you so much for clearing up some of the misconceptions about the church. People just need to understand that everything in the Lord's kingdom is done with love. People just have a hard time coming to terms with that.
When you said "Isn't the priesthood great?" the man was wearing a blue shirt. I'm not ok with this. It's not an accurate depiction of worthiness. Please change.
Its called a court of love . . . after they excommunicate you they all stand in line and shake your hand and give you a hug, and say "we love you . . ." as you walk out of the room.
+Brayden Jensen - I've personally witnessed several mormon disciplinary counsels, and that is exactly how it works: They consider that they are showing "love" and they actually expect you to hug them and shake their hand and say thank you after its over . . . then they send a transcript report of the trial to church headquarters where it is filed away and kept forever
Wow, I can keep paying money no matter what?!? God must really love me!!! Disciplinary councils sound awesomely fun!!! It's interesting that you don't see the conflict of interest in having representation from the "prosecutors office". But I'll say it in a happy voice so eternal damnation sounds like a blessing!!!
Love your channel it reminds me of The Colbert Report how he would take the side of conservatives and make any ridiculous things seem as if it was perfectly sane and you do the same apparently for Mormons
Fun point of fact: you don't (or at least haven't always) need to actually be at your court of love for them to ex you. My dad was in a different country and just got a letter when he was exed.
Great video, when it got to Ally Isom on talking about how excommunication is a loving invitation, I had to shut it off. It pissed me off too much to watch.
0:40 Self abuse? Look, if I get home after a long days work, and I don't have dinner ready when I get home, what did I think was going to happen? I was asking for it! And now, I have to teach myself a lesson by whupping my own ass!
Great production quality, Brother Jake. Although, my only complaint is that I have serious migranes from all the mental gymnastics I had to think through.
The overuse of the word "love" in all this reminds me of that bit where Pearl Forrester sang the Movie Love Song. "The love, that loving lovers love, it's love."
This is a great explanation, thanks for making it. I wonder a little about the use of catholic pictures and if they might confuse people to think we are a branch of the catholic church.
I suspect that the only Mormons who now defend the faith vehemently are those on the inside, i.e. the top brass so to speak (the "apostles" and upper management) who have deeply vested personal interests, plus members who are not fully aware of the actual teachings and doctrines of the LDS organization. For example, how many members know about Kolob? Or that Joseph Smith claimed the moon was inhabited; or that Brigham Young claimed the SUN was inhabited? Are they familiar with the teaching that God was once a MAN and through his behavior became God? Do they know the LDS doctrine that after death, men become founders of new universes, become Gods themselves? Do they realize the extent to which temple rituals are based on Freemasonry? Do they know the history of Joseph Smith in detail, for example that he was deeply into the occult? Have they researched the "Book of Abraham"? (an egregious fraud, easily exposed by Egyptologists) Are they aware of the astounding similarities between the "Book of Mormon" and other books written before the BoM, relating a supposed Jewish ancestry to native Americans? And do they know that DNA analysis has proven that the American Indians' ancestors were NOT Jews (Israelites), but Asians? I have no doubt that with the increasing availability of information, through the Internet, there will be a rapidly accelerating fall-off in the Mormon church --- and their missionaries will experience more and more resistance in their doorstep visitations. When my spouse and I were approached many years ago, the story of the "translation" of the "Book of Mormon" was that Joseph Smith used a "urim" and a "thummim" formed into spectacles to read the plates, but that's been changed, and now the LDS organization avers that Smith put his seer stone in his hat, stuck his head in his hat to keep light out, and DICTATED the "Book of Mormon" without looking at the metal plates! Please view this video: ua-cam.com/video/qcQthyiTA7c/v-deo.html Blessings! ~~~~~~~
I remember the first time I saw a handbook of instruction and feeling like it was a top secret document. I was so curious about what sort of secrets I could find in it.
yup, after rubbing shoulders with a few people "higher up" in the church as well as seeing many of the manuals and other church documents, I think to me the real "dirty secret" of the church is that there is no "there" there. The dirty secret is there is nothing of real substance in the church, its leaders, manuals, polities, etc. It is simply an organization developed to extract wealth from believers, pretending to be in touch with the Devine. It is one giant Ponzi scheme. But it never collapses because there is no product they give, just all "hope" for the next life.
Don't feel bad, dude. No other Mormons know the answers either. Which could mean there are no answers, but hey, cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias will make everything OK.
Amazing how Jehovah's Witnesses say that their shunning and disfellowshiping is out of love too. Amazing how JWS and Mormons have so many similarities yet they both will claim they are the true religion and the other is false. And they treat apostasy the same as JWs. I mean if one takes away some of the crazier doctrines of LDS, they are the same as JWs.
I disagree with your conclusions and approach to the issues, but you are entertaining, and I LOVE the apostasy music with the wolf in sheep's clothing!
I cannot tell if this guy is an ex mormon or a current one, his sarcasm is just so dry I cannot tell if he still supports the church or not. Either way I like his honesty!
I did everything I could to insult and criticize the church in my online presence, hoping to get them to "lovingly" excommunicate me. Nothing happened. They won't ex you if there's any chance they can get tithing money from you some day. If your public posture moves lots of current tithe payers to become never tithe payers, they might "lovingly" ex you. I had to beg them to "lovingly" remove my records. I love knowing I have no formal association with them anymore.
having been excommunicated and then re baptized i can tell you that everything in this is true. I have also seen the light and my whole family has pit in their papers to have our names removed.
Don't forget to put ME up there with the murderers like the Church Handbook of Instructions does. I had "elective transsexual surgery". Yup, to the Morg (Star Trek reference Borg+Mormon=Borg).. I'm right up there with a murderer.
You most likely won't make it to outer darkness Anastasia Beaverhousen. The only way you can really make it there is if you see Jesus Christ, know He is the Son of God and still reject him.
Mormonfan That is impossible in my theology. I can not be disconnected from God in any way, that's only possible in separation theologies. Why would I deny any part of me and reject it? That's like claiming my arm is not part of my body, ridiculous. Also, you would have to be mentally handicapped to see someone and reject them. IQ not detected.
What you fail to mention here is that if you truly are repentant regarding laws that YOU AGREED to abide by (no one forced you to accept) you can be re-admitted to the Church without any limitations whatsoever in as little as one year. Yeah, that sounds really unfair to me. In our country, if you get caught with marijuana you can be put behind bars for years and you'll have a criminal record that will mark you as a convict for life, limiting what you can and can't do for the rest of your days. If a Mormon council examined your marijuana use you will probably not even get kicked out of the Church. Again, tons of unfairness there, wouldn't you agree? However, if you commit adultery, you might be disfellowshiped or asked to leave the Church. The US court system won't even give you a slap on the wrist for adultery. Why don't you ask a married person which is worse, adultery or marijuana, and see what they say. Sounds like Mormon disciplinary courts are just slightly better than the US supreme court, one of the most advanced court systems in the free world (at least, we definitely have the most lawyers).
The mormon ephasis on faithfullness in marriage and strong, traditional families is very good for society. However, other religions also have these values. No matter how well the mormons live, it doesn't change the fact that the mormon church is false. This is because its scriptures are false. For example the Book of Abraham is based on a false "translation" of Egyptian which Joseph Smith did.
Pretty good! Except the part about Kate jelling getting EXXED for asking questions. Not so. She was EXXED for repeated deliberate rebellion and showing no respect for the thing that she so fervently wants.
Mormonfan except the part where Kate was repeatedly ignored. It's pretty hard to rebel against people ignoring your questions. I also think you exaggerate with "no respect" since she was a devout and very respectful member. It's people like me, who think your priesthood leaders range from slightly impressive to awful who show no respect to the imaginary power they claim to have. When you have the president of the quorum of the 12 apostles advocating deception & intolerance, I show them no respect, whereas Kate still faithfully sustained all those men (even the absolute worst one: Boyd).
Rob Bates Nice to meet you! You and I agree on many things. The main issue is that she wasn't ignored. Being a devout respectful member would be respecting what the leaders of The Church asked her not to do. Namely not to make one of the most sacred place in mormonism a place of contention, protest, and divisiveness.
Mormonfan as a former mormon, I never would have classified the conference center as one of the most sacred places. Also, given her restrained, quite, and signless form of protest, I wouldn't have faulted her for that either. But our main disagreement is whether or not she was ignored. Until discipline, she was completely ignored except for a response from the PR department. She never had any official answer. Even if locally they had chosen to officially answer her, there is precedent for escalation to the first presidency (the obvious parallel being the 1978 change). The main difference between women & the priesthood and blacks having the priesthood is that it was official doctrine that blacks couldn't have the priesthood, whereas Kate's question was in an unanswered area.
Mormonfan they weren't picketing around the temple, or any of the other buildings, they queued to get tickets to the conference center. The fact that article says Temple Square doesn't change their actions. By "quiet" I literally meant "quiet." They didn't chant or shout, they just queued, asked for a standby ticket, and were each denied in turn. Media was employed to pressure the church, but you have to remember that this was after having been repeatedly ignored. What is she supposed to do when they wont respond? The PR department wasn't escalating her question, and they were the only one sending her information.
Rob Bates False. It wasn't because The Church wasn't listening that they used media for attention, they did this from the beginning. They continued to protest not because The Church wasn't listening, they protested because they weren't able to dictate the answer that was given. bycommonconsent.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/contextmissingfromwomensdiscussion-may29-2014.pdf
Bro Jake, let me clarify a few things for you. 1. Before church disciplinary council for apostasy, the bishop will speak with the individual so that they have a clear understanding of the situation, and what needs to be done. There is no secret "gotcha" as implied in this video. Despite your sarcasm this is all done with a concern and love for the individual. We all make mistakes and many of us go astray, and the church leaders understand and sympathize. 2. Bro Jake does not understand the difference between practice and doctrine. For example, a 12 year boy can be ordained as a deacon -- this is a practice and could change. In the case of blacks holding the priesthood, it was always expected that this practice would change. Church leaders gave their opinion for this practice and disagreed among themselves on that reason.
Great production quality, Brother Jake. Although, my only complaint is that I have serious migranes from all the mental gymnastics I had to think through.
You are a wonderful man
It's the Bible Reloaded, the logic explosion, with Hugo and Jake...
Thanks,Hugo and Jake,this channel is awesome.
Any chance of you guys doing the BoM* Reloaded? (*Bood o' Mormon)
Corey Bruce you might like the podcast "My Book of Mormon." It's a lot like Hugo and Jake's channel.
jdwartena
Y'all might want to check out my podcast. I've been crossdressing to religious services while standing for the marginalized ever since learning of #Mormon women who received death threats for starting 'Wear Pants to Church Day':
crossdresstochurch.wordpress.com/
thanks for clearing all this up for me. originally i just thought it was an insane cult, now i realize that it's 100% god inspired.
This continues to be my favorite UA-cam series. Fantastic work as always Brother Jake!
The scary thing he's completely accurate. Completely accurate.
Brother Jake... you have a serious gift.
This would be a lot funnier if I hadn't ever said the exact BS excuses listed in this video.
It really is terribly embarrassing to realize was a complete propaganda-drone I was when I was LDS :-(
You're not alone. Yes, I'm playing on the Mormon pop song and sincerely mind blown at how my brain used to work, or not work actually.
Christian Hawes hang in there. The transition can be a rough ride. I'm 5 years in, and family/friends still sometimes freak out. It does get better though :-)
Four years later this comment still rings truth.
Brother Jake, if I were gay, I could, with every fiber of my being, say, "I LOVE YOU", but I am not gay, so I have to say "I LOVE YOU BRO"!, (but I don't plan to act on it.
I think we all have a "friend" who practices....*ahem*....self-abuse.
90% of boys/men master... self-abuse...
The other 10% lie about it.
Rob s it is defined as "flicking the bean" "rubbing" is for noobs.
Oh, is that what it's supposed to mean? I thought it literally meant shit like cutting, lol.
Brother Jake, YOU ARE MY FAVORITE PERSON EVER
When I requested my name to be removed from the church, I got a letter asking me to come to a disciplinary counsel. Never went of course. Nope, no “sins” other than no longer believing and asking my name to be removed.
Never fails!!! 100% on point!
I don't think there's ever been a Court of Love where the outcome was not pre-determined before the accused stepped into the room.
Also, has anyone EVER heard of a Court of Love where the accused was exonerated?
Yes.
Yes, it happens. But I think they still decide before hand how it's going to go.
once again brother Jake, proves that he is a brilliant satirist.
Apostasy *ominous music starts playing*
Aww Shiz, I handed out excommunications like they were party favors. I always hooked a brother back up with a sweet apostle gig if he was willing to say sorry.
I love this one. Thanks for the education. Keep them coming.
Brother Jake, I just wanted to say thank you so much for clearing up some of the misconceptions about the church. People just need to understand that everything in the Lord's kingdom is done with love. People just have a hard time coming to terms with that.
i think the church's abortion policy demonstrates very clearly that Gods love and the church's love are two very different ideas.
When you said "Isn't the priesthood great?" the man was wearing a blue shirt. I'm not ok with this. It's not an accurate depiction of worthiness. Please change.
Glen Danielsen I think Jake Edwards was being sarcastic, not really offended.
Ironically, they recently changed that! Now missionaries are able to wear blue shirts! Hahahaha!
@@dynastydriven seriously?? I’ve been gone so long I didn’t even know that! Hahahaha
Did you just use a picture is the Sunday night sex show for this?
Its called a court of love . . . after they excommunicate you they all stand in line and shake your hand and give you a hug, and say "we love you . . ." as you walk out of the room.
+Rob Poulson Very 1984 like.
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.
Is this for real?
sounds like a bunch of lying pious egomaniacs...
+Brayden Jensen - I've personally witnessed several mormon disciplinary counsels, and that is exactly how it works: They consider that they are showing "love" and they actually expect you to hug them and shake their hand and say thank you after its over . . . then they send a transcript report of the trial to church headquarters where it is filed away and kept forever
Well done again, Jake.
Certainly generous for the church to allow sinners the privilege of still paying tithing!
Wow, I can keep paying money no matter what?!? God must really love me!!! Disciplinary councils sound awesomely fun!!! It's interesting that you don't see the conflict of interest in having representation from the "prosecutors office". But I'll say it in a happy voice so eternal damnation sounds like a blessing!!!
Amen! Brother thanks for putting this out there!
Your videos are all so great, keep it up!
Now watching all Brother Jake videos for the first time. I love the man.
What is the "Apostasy" sound effect? Does anybody have a link?
Oh good, I can still pay tithing.
I was worried for a moment.
I love this so much. This is great.
could you explain the youth system?
emojo1990 The youth system is very similar, there are also biannual worthiness interviews just to "check up on you".
The most loving punishment of all
While this one was not as funny as some of your previous videos, it was in spite of that very critical and intellectual. Thank you, job well done!
OMG This is great Jake. I appreciate t he time you take to make this videos.
This video caused me a lot of "loud laughter"
Love your channel it reminds me of The Colbert Report how he would take the side of conservatives and make any ridiculous things seem as if it was perfectly sane and you do the same apparently for Mormons
The most loving of all EXCOMMUNICATION😂😂😂
I am watching this after learning about Rock Waterman's excommunication. It's all about love? They throw out the most loving people!
You are insanely good at satire. I could not tell if you were being serious or not until I read the comments. Good for you.
I heart Brother Jake!
every time I see the wolf in sheep's clothing picture I think the wolf is behind a sheep just banging away
Wow, it all makes so much sense now! Thanks, answer man!
By far your best work in a line that has only quality.
The building shown for the Stake Center looks a lot like the Grand Prairie, Texas Ward building.
I had to watch a few videos before I fully understood the satire. Damn this guy is good. I love how he only uses Mormon logic.
“Mormon logic” oxymoron!
Another great video!
awesome, totally awesome !!!!!
"...when public opinion STARTED to shift away from those doctrines."
Started? In 1978?
Great work.
Summed up perfectly.
You're trying to make me hate Google Plus even more.
Oh stop, go hang out on your Apple Ping service!
Did you see the badge at 1:34 from the prosecutors office? REPRESENT!
That is pretty cool that G+ turned that 1:34 into a link to that part of the video automagically. eat that ping
friendly reminder that as of november 2015, being in a gay relationship counts as apostasy
It all makes sense now!
Damn fine job!
I love it when you say "super vip heaven" hilarious.
Great video
Fun point of fact: you don't (or at least haven't always) need to actually be at your court of love for them to ex you. My dad was in a different country and just got a letter when he was exed.
In the picture at 5:50 of the young scout, is that Leo DeCaprio?
Great video, when it got to Ally Isom on talking about how excommunication is a loving invitation, I had to shut it off. It pissed me off too much to watch.
0:40 Self abuse? Look, if I get home after a long days work, and I don't have dinner ready when I get home, what did I think was going to happen? I was asking for it! And now, I have to teach myself a lesson by whupping my own ass!
just remember it's all about love that's why they shake your hand after the excommunicate you?????
"Court of Love"?
It's like the LDS Church is trying to allude their similarities to 1984...
Great production quality, Brother Jake. Although, my only complaint is that I have serious migranes from all the mental gymnastics I had to think through.
I know it's a little late but the formal and informal nun was hilarious
Apostasy !!! (music) LOL !!!!! Great job Jake !!!!! Keep making these
The overuse of the word "love" in all this reminds me of that bit where Pearl Forrester sang the Movie Love Song.
"The love, that loving lovers love, it's love."
This is a great explanation, thanks for making it. I wonder a little about the use of catholic pictures and if they might confuse people to think we are a branch of the catholic church.
You're funny!
Perhaps it helps get the point across that we aren't the only Christian Church that practices Church Discipline?
I suspect that the only Mormons who now defend the faith vehemently are those on the inside, i.e. the top brass so to speak (the "apostles" and upper management) who have deeply vested personal interests, plus members who are not fully aware of the actual teachings and doctrines of the LDS organization.
For example, how many members know about Kolob? Or that Joseph Smith claimed the moon was inhabited; or that Brigham Young claimed the SUN was inhabited?
Are they familiar with the teaching that God was once a MAN and through his behavior became God? Do they know the LDS doctrine that after death, men become founders of new universes, become Gods themselves?
Do they realize the extent to which temple rituals are based on Freemasonry?
Do they know the history of Joseph Smith in detail, for example that he was deeply into the occult?
Have they researched the "Book of Abraham"? (an egregious fraud, easily exposed by Egyptologists)
Are they aware of the astounding similarities between the "Book of Mormon" and other books written before the BoM, relating a supposed Jewish ancestry to native Americans?
And do they know that DNA analysis has proven that the American Indians' ancestors were NOT Jews (Israelites), but Asians?
I have no doubt that with the increasing availability of information, through the Internet, there will be a rapidly accelerating fall-off in the Mormon church --- and their missionaries will experience more and more resistance in their doorstep visitations.
When my spouse and I were approached many years ago, the story of the "translation" of the "Book of Mormon" was that Joseph Smith used a "urim" and a "thummim" formed into spectacles to read the plates, but that's been changed, and now the LDS organization avers that Smith put his seer stone in his hat, stuck his head in his hat to keep light out, and DICTATED the "Book of Mormon" without looking at the metal plates!
Please view this video: ua-cam.com/video/qcQthyiTA7c/v-deo.html
Blessings!
~~~~~~~
Yep! Love.. or.. something :)
Cool video
I remember the first time I saw a handbook of instruction and feeling like it was a top secret document. I was so curious about what sort of secrets I could find in it.
yup, after rubbing shoulders with a few people "higher up" in the church as well as seeing many of the manuals and other church documents, I think to me the real "dirty secret" of the church is that there is no "there" there. The dirty secret is there is nothing of real substance in the church, its leaders, manuals, polities, etc. It is simply an organization developed to extract wealth from believers, pretending to be in touch with the Devine. It is one giant Ponzi scheme. But it never collapses because there is no product they give, just all "hope" for the next life.
There are answers. I dont know them but they are there.
Don't feel bad, dude. No other Mormons know the answers either. Which could mean there are no answers, but hey, cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias will make everything OK.
Amazing how Jehovah's Witnesses say that their shunning and disfellowshiping is out of love too. Amazing how JWS and Mormons have so many similarities yet they both will claim they are the true religion and the other is false.
And they treat apostasy the same as JWs. I mean if one takes away some of the crazier doctrines of LDS, they are the same as JWs.
I love you
They call church discipline a "court of love"?
That seems a tad Orwellian
I disagree with your conclusions and approach to the issues, but you are entertaining, and I LOVE the apostasy music with the wolf in sheep's clothing!
I cannot tell if this guy is an ex mormon or a current one, his sarcasm is just so dry I cannot tell if he still supports the church or not. Either way I like his honesty!
Never mind it becomes blatantly obvious satire in the Mormonism is not a cult video
He is an exMormon.
I love that lost sheep. "Brb I've gotta go repent!"
They don't excommunicate rapists.
I seriously lose it every time I hear "super special VIP heaven."
E P I C C U L T
I did everything I could to insult and criticize the church in my online presence, hoping to get them to "lovingly" excommunicate me. Nothing happened. They won't ex you if there's any chance they can get tithing money from you some day. If your public posture moves lots of current tithe payers to become never tithe payers, they might "lovingly" ex you. I had to beg them to "lovingly" remove my records. I love knowing I have no formal association with them anymore.
“In special VIP heaven...” 😂😂😂
I had to listen 3 times to stop hearing the word "orks" when he was talking about disciplinary wards lol
I have been using my Sams' Club card in public. Does this make me guilty of Apostasy? (Duh-duh-DUUUUHHHH!)
having been excommunicated and then re baptized i can tell you that everything in this is true. I have also seen the light and my whole family has pit in their papers to have our names removed.
If you act up, then they won't teach you the secret handshakes.
Hahahah I love this! Apostasy! hahahah gets me everytime.
for realsies.
Haha... "Self Abuse".....
This gave me a belly ache laugh.
Don't forget to put ME up there with the murderers like the Church Handbook of Instructions does. I had "elective transsexual surgery".
Yup, to the Morg (Star Trek reference Borg+Mormon=Borg).. I'm right up there with a murderer.
I definitely feel God will take into account all of our individual trials when we are judged. Have you seen this? videowest.kuer.org/transmormon/
Gabrielle Besnans Gabrielle I'm gay , so I'm taking a flashlight into Outer Darkness, should I bring more batteries?
You most likely won't make it to outer darkness Anastasia Beaverhousen. The only way you can really make it there is if you see Jesus Christ, know He is the Son of God and still reject him.
Mormonfan
That is impossible in my theology. I can not be disconnected from God in any way, that's only possible in separation theologies. Why would I deny any part of me and reject it? That's like claiming my arm is not part of my body, ridiculous.
Also, you would have to be mentally handicapped to see someone and reject them. IQ not detected.
Mormonfan ... here's another video of a transwoman who is a former Mormon and RM
vimeo.com/channels/watchthis/64418878
The Emperor Has No Clothes! #funny
I'm still not sure if he is pro or against the church haha
Still entertaining for a non Lds 😂
pepinka orehova Wait what? He's completely mocking the church, how can you not tell? Rightly so, y'all a crazy cult.
The philosophies of men, mingled with scripture LOL
Do you have a real mohawk
Ally is hot.
Gosh this channel confused the heck out of me. Are you for Mormons or not I need a straight answer!
It's called sarcasm. You're suppose to laugh at someone pretending to be a Mormon apologist.
Phatooine brother Jake just does such a good job that it is hard to tell! It's funny either way.
How dare you use a photo of His Holiness, the Pope, in the company of the Roman Rota, in your lying, false video.
Half of me wants to believe your joking lol
What you fail to mention here is that if you truly are repentant regarding laws that YOU AGREED to abide by (no one forced you to accept) you can be re-admitted to the Church without any limitations whatsoever in as little as one year. Yeah, that sounds really unfair to me. In our country, if you get caught with marijuana you can be put behind bars for years and you'll have a criminal record that will mark you as a convict for life, limiting what you can and can't do for the rest of your days. If a Mormon council examined your marijuana use you will probably not even get kicked out of the Church. Again, tons of unfairness there, wouldn't you agree? However, if you commit adultery, you might be disfellowshiped or asked to leave the Church. The US court system won't even give you a slap on the wrist for adultery. Why don't you ask a married person which is worse, adultery or marijuana, and see what they say. Sounds like Mormon disciplinary courts are just slightly better than the US supreme court, one of the most advanced court systems in the free world (at least, we definitely have the most lawyers).
The mormon ephasis on faithfullness in marriage and strong, traditional families is very good for society. However, other religions also have these values.
No matter how well the mormons live, it doesn't change the fact that the mormon church is false. This is because its scriptures are false. For example the Book of Abraham is based on a false "translation" of Egyptian which Joseph Smith did.
Pretty good! Except the part about Kate jelling getting EXXED for asking questions. Not so. She was EXXED for repeated deliberate rebellion and showing no respect for the thing that she so fervently wants.
Mormonfan except the part where Kate was repeatedly ignored. It's pretty hard to rebel against people ignoring your questions. I also think you exaggerate with "no respect" since she was a devout and very respectful member.
It's people like me, who think your priesthood leaders range from slightly impressive to awful who show no respect to the imaginary power they claim to have.
When you have the president of the quorum of the 12 apostles advocating deception & intolerance, I show them no respect, whereas Kate still faithfully sustained all those men (even the absolute worst one: Boyd).
Rob Bates Nice to meet you! You and I agree on many things. The main issue is that she wasn't ignored. Being a devout respectful member would be respecting what the leaders of The Church asked her not to do. Namely not to make one of the most sacred place in mormonism a place of contention, protest, and divisiveness.
Mormonfan as a former mormon, I never would have classified the conference center as one of the most sacred places. Also, given her restrained, quite, and signless form of protest, I wouldn't have faulted her for that either.
But our main disagreement is whether or not she was ignored. Until discipline, she was completely ignored except for a response from the PR department. She never had any official answer. Even if locally they had chosen to officially answer her, there is precedent for escalation to the first presidency (the obvious parallel being the 1978 change).
The main difference between women & the priesthood and blacks having the priesthood is that it was official doctrine that blacks couldn't have the priesthood, whereas Kate's question was in an unanswered area.
Mormonfan they weren't picketing around the temple, or any of the other buildings, they queued to get tickets to the conference center. The fact that article says Temple Square doesn't change their actions.
By "quiet" I literally meant "quiet." They didn't chant or shout, they just queued, asked for a standby ticket, and were each denied in turn.
Media was employed to pressure the church, but you have to remember that this was after having been repeatedly ignored. What is she supposed to do when they wont respond? The PR department wasn't escalating her question, and they were the only one sending her information.
Rob Bates False. It wasn't because The Church wasn't listening that they used media for attention, they did this from the beginning. They continued to protest not because The Church wasn't listening, they protested because they weren't able to dictate the answer that was given.
bycommonconsent.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/contextmissingfromwomensdiscussion-may29-2014.pdf
Bro Jake, let me clarify a few things for you.
1. Before church disciplinary council for apostasy, the bishop will speak with the individual so that they have a clear understanding of the situation, and what needs to be done. There is no secret "gotcha" as implied in this video. Despite your sarcasm this is all done with a concern and love for the individual. We all make mistakes and many of us go astray, and the church leaders understand and sympathize.
2. Bro Jake does not understand the difference between practice and doctrine. For example, a 12 year boy can be ordained as a deacon -- this is a practice and could change. In the case of blacks holding the priesthood, it was always expected that this practice would change. Church leaders gave their opinion for this practice and disagreed among themselves on that reason.
Oh great, the inability to think for himself obedient white shirt wearing perfect haircut unintelligent ninny troll strikes again!
"Brother" Jake,
Your hatred of the church will lead you to a very dark place.
Called Death. And everyone goes there actually.
Go away you judgmental POS.
Great production quality, Brother Jake. Although, my only complaint is that I have serious migranes from all the mental gymnastics I had to think through.