@@remnant0888she is only one who lost their memory while being drunk!!!!!!! Could i have hit him? I left him at waterfall until Jen set her straight. Etc
Jason Jones said it well in chat, "10 butt dials, 10 people walked by a body on the lawn, 2 High ranking cop/atf threw phones away the day before notice…Solo Cups, leaf blower… crazyyy". This case is absolutely bizarre. While the flirtatious texts don't reflect Karen Read in the best light, it looks much worse for the federal officer.
@@dutchboynl2082 the drunk driver whose job is policing violations involving alcohol, the guy under federal investigation who destroys his phone, looks like just another corrupt cop in this nest of drunken vipers being protected by Aunt Bev.
Higgins said he fancied her from the minute he saw her and Karen sadly was feeling low and she and John were having issues but it don't make her wanting to injure John He was guardian to kids Karen wouldn't do this
It makes no sense that Brian Higgins would drive his personal vehicle, after drinking all night to the police station to park his official car, and then drive home all in, what they are calling, a blizzard! What was so important that the car had to be re-parked in a different place? I think it’s pretty ball to drive to the police station drunk, and start re-parking vehicles and then drive home. The officer at the station had to know he was drunk. By his own admission, he had 8 to 10 Jamison and Ginger drinks. I wouldn’t be able to stand upright, let alone drive a vehicle and a blizzard.
Plus they’re all like walking distance from each other. The fact they drove while drunk is inexcusable regardless but it’s just wild to me they had to drive when they could easily walk
@@MimiDidi121 It makes sense to me, as I live in the mountains and we have to move vehicles out of the parking lots before the plows get there for snow removal. If they are not moved by 3am, you get plowed in and they cannot plow around the cars. Makes perfect sense, as I am sure he would not want to come back once he was home in bed. We got snow yesterday and I was out at 1 am the night before, moving my cars.
It makes me so angry. If I didn’t personally know good law enforcement people, I’d think they were all corrupt. This “the law doesn’t apply to me” mentality for people in power disgusts me.
if i was in the jury, i could not get over the fact that so many of these people not only got rid of their phones, got rid of other elements of digital evidence, a family moved, got rid of the dog, and also the amount of "butt dials"!? don't get me started on how much they're parsing their answers on cross, sometimes even on direct. this is a whole mess
Yeah, even if I could see John and Karen fighting (which I really could see), why all the super weird coincidences, suspicious behavior, cageyness on cross. I think of Brian Jr's testimony, Kerry Roberts, even Caitlin mostly. They saw what they saw, the remembered what they did and didn't what they didn't. There wasn't much fighting, even if defense tried. That's what I would expect to see from others in Albert/McCabe. I can even excuse Brian Albert and Higgins a bit cuz they are LE so I can see some bruising on questioning their authority, but why from Nicole, Julie, Chris, and mostly Jenn?? I'm sure a lot of Jen's stuff was cuz she liked to be in control, but why wasn't screenshots from other kids and all that -i could understand if she was Colin's mom who is accused of lying about being there and beating him up, but she's only Auntie JJ and not an Albert and it's her sister's family so why?? Why??? Why did Julie go get Chris and bring him back to the house -they were not there that night! Why did Higgins come to the house the next day? I get he was there, but wait at your house for police!
EXCELLENT POINTS!!! those should be in the defenses closing argument!! Can’t wait until this is over…. I can’t see how there could be anything but acquittal but can never count on it…
Karen’s statement about having to raise kids with no say in ‘how’ is completely VALID, and it does not mean she didn’t like/love them. Any step parent gets this… it’s truly unique and quite a thankless job. I don’t think we can fault her for being honest when we hear this. And it certainly doesn’t mean she is a murderer! FREE KAREN READ
She was trashed that night! She probably doesn’t or didn’t even know she hit him, but clearly they were arguing in the car on their way to Brian’s house, and when he stepped out of the car Karen thought he gotten out and drove off, hitting him unbeknownst to her, pissed & buzzing she had no idea. But she is the sole responsible party for John’s death, I’m new to this case but I see it from miles away, wake up ppl … watching from Texas
@@melb2258fellow Texan here. I'm curious where you heard what Karen drank and how many she consumed? Furthermore, she's had many people day she wasn't drunk at all. It sounds like you want her to be drunk so all the pieces fit together in your mind. I can't wait until the defense starts and you hear the FBI report saying there's no possible way the vehicle could've hit and killed John. 😊
Karen is insecure & never fit in with John's family or friends. Imo, she wanted to feel needed & liked. This is one of the reasons she took care of the kids. Then she complained about not having enough help. John's mother or parents were there to help. However, Karen didn't like that either. Karen & John were not happy in the relationship. I get the sense John was going to break up with her but she kept holding on. I don't know if she killed John or not. There is definitely reasonable doubt.
As a trial lawyer since 1993, watching AJ & this defense team vs Lally & the Commonwealth is like watching Michael Jordan & the Olympic Dream Team vs high schoolers. There is a concept called confirmation bias, by which we all, including jurors, filter new information to coincide with a pre-held belief. Here, for the trial’s first three weeks, the prosecution’s witnesses nearly universally presented KR in a positive light (buying the Aruba drinks, saying she felt honored to be there, apologizing over the mistake with the younger Aruba sister and drunk John, offering to pay for her room even, taking care of the orphaned kids with JO etc). The prosecution allowed this knowing they had Brian Higgins’ and KR’s flirtatious texts that immediately painted KR in a negative light and gave her motive. That text evidence showed her apology over Aruba was neither heart felt, nor did she believe her Aruba sister accusation was a mistake. She’s going around John’s back and doesn’t want the kids that John so graciously took in, when they allowed the impression for the first three weeks that she was like a mother to them. Why not make that your first witness? Instead, they allowed the seeds of conspiracy and collusion against KR to spread and thus confirmation bias. By the time Brian Higgins took the stand on the Friday of week 3 and recounted KR’s aggressive, purposefully obtuse, and somewhat psycho emails to him about him being “hot” and “without kids,” confirmation bias had likely cemented already in favor of KR. Indeed, it appears she was toying with him and his emotions on purpose in a fatal attraction manner, including Bunny Boiling potential. Because of the Commonwealth’s delay in putting Higgins on, however, the texts between Higgins and Read lost much of their impact. In fact, her toying with Higgins and then abruptly stopping her texts to him on Jan. 23, 2022, ended up providing the most cogent plausible motive for Higgins and Albert to lure John to the after bars at Albert’s house. Fueled by a day of drinking, his sexual interest in KR, jealousy, and his ignored texts to KR after 1.23.22, seeing KR and JO lovey dovey at the Waterfall while she ignored him ignited a rage in Higgins. He began play fighting and acting out at the Waterfall in preparation for what he was going to do to JO later. Higgins was so eager to get JO there he even texted him at 12:20 asking where he was. Higgins’ conduct after his 12:20 am text to John on Jan. 29, 2022, smacks of guilt and cover up. I mean, who goes to their police station office at 1:30 am on a Saturday after a long night of drinking? Who illegally uses federal computer machinery to cherry pick info off his phone and then literally destroy the phone and sim card? Who magically butt dials someone for 22 seconds at 2:22 am in response to the 2:22 am one-second, during-sex butt dial from the Boston cop who had another Boston cop lying dead in his yard at that time? Is it just a coincidence that 5 minutes later, at 2:27, Jen Googles “Hos long to die in cold?” The prosecution had one chance to make a first impression on its murder defendant before confirmation bias kicks in, and they’ve flubbed it. The doubt in this case is not only reasonable but overwhelming.
Thanks for your perspective. What also got overlooked is when Higgins had to read or admit that at the Fed grand jury he stated a tall dark haired man came in and he B-lined out of the house. He fell SHORT IMO of saying it was JO. Clearly it seems he is restricted with testimony by having his lawyer present. He may IMO plead the 5th if his conscience if he has one does not get the better of him. He will suffer a very troubled weekend from yesterday's shot at the truth. He may rather go down in flames with his pals. It's clearer from his testimony something really bad happened to JO in that house and he's willing to help cover it up. Butt dials, being at the police station, return to the scene for in person conversation, destroying his phone and changing numbers, access to the bay where the car is and staying at the police station for a whole weekend while off duty...the list is endless
@@MsK_1111 what testimony, other than the younger Aruba sister, painted KR in bad light? Maybe I missed it … willing to listen but just perspectives … fascinating case
Right ... drinking and driving in a company car is a no go, drinking and driving in your own car is fine, then returning to work and moving cars is also fine? Makes no sense.
Canton seems like a wierd place. Everyone is drunk driving. Everyone is buttdialing. Everyone is forgetting calls. People rehoming phones. Etc. Etc. Etc.
Not sure everyone in Canton does the above. However, this “friend group” clearly is founded upon excess alcohol consumption, drinking while under the influence, and sophomoric behavior. It smacks of “Swingers Gone Wrong” Club.
I've never watched a trial that was as infuriating as this one. All of these witnesses who refuse to answer simple questions, who don't mind lying, who argue instead of just saying yes or no, who got rid of their phones. There's a clear pattern with these toxic people.
How would you feel if you were attacked by a shark who is trying to push a ridiculous agenda that they were all involved in a murder and coverup of their beloved brother in blue? How would you feel about the harassment and torment they and their children have all had to endure? If they want their testimony understood exactly, they should have that right. Jackson has not been respectful to any of them and has tried to twist their words every which way and sneak in statements that are untrue.
Lol. Jackson wants you to believe there was a court order that told them to not mess with their phones or destroy them, but that is a LIE. He filed a motion about that, but it was denied and there was NO order by the court. Higgins voluntarily gave the relevant texts to law enforcement when he was not even asked to do so!
@@cristipratt2844 I wouldn't assume the texts messages are accurate either. He could have deleted specific messages from what he provided that make it look like she was flirting with him.
My issue is that Higgins went to the Canton PD after he said he left Fairmont because he had a long day. Sorry, you don’t go to Canton PD after drinking for over 8 hours to do “administrative work”
the same vehicles that he himself parked there just hours earlier, knowing the storm was coming. he also walked around the building according to the keycard data
They charged 2nd degree because they thought she would plea out for a lesser charge and it would all go away. They didn’t expect her to have the resources to get this type of defense.
Also, all of these married women text John constantly. That was clear. I believe she was extremely insecure in John’s friend group. She made a bad choice with Higgins, but I kind of get it. That friend group is so toxic.
I think Karen was definitely tipsy when she went home had seen Higgins and was thinking maybe I could have a good relationship with him if things were fizzling out with John as it seems it was getting a little stressful with the kids and caring was not feeling appreciated so you know when you’re drinkingyou reach out and that’s what she’s doing but she’s tipsy so she’s not answering back. She’s probably doing other things getting ready for bed who knows it’s innocent
I also think that after that trip and thinking he was cheating, she was really feeling insecure. It was noted that JO had MANY girlfriends. Yes, she made an unwise decision with those messages to BH, but that doesn’t mean she killed JO. It just meant she was second guessing her relationship. It did not go any further …
Exactly! This guy probably got into with John and it escalated and ended up with John being beaten to death or nearly and thrown out in the snow! Seems so likely. I drive for a living and hearing how far Karen would’ve needed to back up and hit him while being under the influence is not only extremely difficult, but for most drivers next to impossible. Physics never lie. I’d be focusing on these things rather than texts that actually make your witness for the prosecution look even more guilty!
Yes. I don’t think she purposefully killed him. But they were both drunk and fighting and maybe she hit him on accident and just kept going because she was pissed. She clearly woke up terrified that he was gone and that she possibly did it. I think the Alberts are shady as hell. That’s why this case is like a soap opera. So many ups and downs.
@@jsm8841but they weren’t fighting at the bar they were so affectionate that the colakesis wife told her husband she wished he was more like that to her. And all the witnesses that the CW called said they saw the car and it was always moving forward slowly so how did she back into him? I’m not saying the Albert’s/macabes/huggens. Killed him on purpose but they might have accidentally killed him Where is his shoe and hat
@@karennotAkaren1 I wonder if they were being extra affectionate because Higgins was at the bar and Karen was putting on a show to make him jealous. It literally is like a soap opera. I hope there is justice for John somehow in all of this
@@jsm8841 She didn't acknowledge him even once that night, according to Higgins' own testimony. And had ghosted his text messages more than a week prior.
I think Jen did Karen a favor telling court how John loved previous girlfriend more and used Karen as a babysitter with benefits. Makes Karen’s actions with Higgins seem less out of left field. And Higgins texts telling Karen’s version of NYE shows she looked down on John for his behavior, it wasn’t just jealousy.
I think Higgins was a “get back at John” thing that she didn’t follow through on.. These prosecution witnesses come across as evasive/combative and out right liars..To be clear I’m not in Karen Reeds camp it’s just my observation from listening to these people’s testimony..
I agree. I think Karen was feeling like the babysitter with benefits after a while. She was doing all of the parent duty while John was out getting drunk a lot. I think that statement was compelling and actually helped the defense.
Where there’s smoke there’s fire. He sounded like a flirt and judging by the demeanor of the women he associated with on a daily basis he clearly if he didn’t cheat lead women on. John wasn’t a saint but a human the same s Karen. I’m going on the case presented before me sounds like they had an open relationship and she would get jealous. So far this case makes me believe people hate Karen and want to bring her down because of personal reasons instead of facts.
Yea I agree I don't think the babysitter with benefits helps the prosecution as much as they think. I can see it hurting their case. Jen was nearly manically gleeful to get that dig in at Karen
What I understood about the exchange regarding the children is that “it was complicated” because he had taken a responsibility but was “not really onto it”; which probably meant she had an extra burden taking care oof the kids, even though she had never looked forward to “having kids”, and was not even “recognized for it”. I can somehow understand her. Taking care of kids that are not yours as you come into a new relationship is very hard. Even when you do your best, recognition, if ever, might take 20 years or more. But that does not make her a nasty lady, and it is not motive.
At this point, you could show me a video of her intentionally hitting him and screaming "I'm leaving you for dead" out the window and I would still want to know WTH was going on with these other people bc they act so SUSPICIOUS
You missed when the defense said did you throw the card in one dumpster and the phone in another dumpster.😮 So I wonder if they have cameras at the military base
Best advice given in training from an attorney…. Absolutely NEVER post anything in a text message or email that you wouldn’t want to see in court. Blown up great big for all in court to read.
I never put in writing of any kind , negative comments to or about anyone . If it is written down then it is unforgettable. Verbal can be moved on from , and forgiven .
Yes. My dad was a Verizon guy for 50 years “ Texar legal documents and not a lot of people know that. Make sure you never text anything you wouldn’t want used against you.
Wow, Peter, I respect so much that you acknowledged how awful it would be to have these texts come out so publicly and refuse to join the people making fun of him. It made me want to cry and I'm thankful there are people like you in this world to bring us back to level when the crowd mentality takes over. 💕💕💕 You have a good heart, my man.
I think he was Harvey Weinstein and Kevin spacey’s attorney. I’m not saying he’s morally a good person but if I ever get into some crap and need a good attorney I’m calling him.
I have been with my BF 7 years and he has a daughter he has full custody of, we have talked about this case. I have been exactly in Karens position. Step parenting, going from no kids to being a caregiver, and having to respect someone else’s boundaries is hard. I used to vent ALL THE TIME to my friends about being a glorified baby sitter, I love him and respect him so much as a single father. So admirable. But felt like I would never amount or be as important as his baby. I sought emotional intimacy when I would feel lonely. We are great now, but step parents know that her texts may seem bad… but it’s not enough motive for me. Most have probably been there too. I am new to this case, so i just want physical evidence now. Poor motive imo, BUT accidental while drinking is still on the table for me.
If they have nothing to hide; why destroy phones, ect… rehome dog, change basement flooring; fill in pool, then sell home, and use SOLO CUPS, to obtain evidence, no chain of custody ect…. TOO MANY SUS’S‼️
And all the cops drink driving means we know that they have total confidence if they do something wrong the other cops will cover it up. They would never risk their careers over a dui.
I think he texted John because he couldn’t text Karen and he wanted to see her/talk to her. Definitely possible that there’s was an argument / fight between Brian and John. But also possible a fight between Karen and John where she sped away and hit him. I see her in a different light after this. She was jealous of the kids taking up too much of John’s time. She wanted more from him. She thought he cheated and wanted to get back at him. Wanted a one night stand and Brian seemed interested in more and I don’t think that was what she was after. She wanted John’s attention. A being drunk makes people do stupid things.
I think John found out then he confronted Brian Higgins at Fairview. Led to a fight with the Alberts joining in. They threw him out on the lawn. The cover up began with the group. None of them were true friends with John. So sad!
I wish the prosecution would stop creating a soap opera and just say what happened, when it happened, how it happened and the evidence. If I were the jury I would be irritated right now.
If I were a juror by now I would not trust him after he pulled all those tricks. I just hope the jury recognizes his sneaky ways. He said many derogatory things in his comments that he puts into his questions. He really is pushing it.
The CW was supposed to be done their case by now. Lally is a terrible prosecutor who asks questions like what was this irrelevant guy in Aruba drinking... ridiculous
The phone was trashed after he selected what information would be given? THATS ENOUGH RIGHT THERE FOR REASONABLE DOUBT. And if he had the option to destroy it legally, he STILL should have known better and kept it just in case to protect his name
IMHO Higgins was suspicious of Karen's intentions because she never seemed interested in him before, and also I believe she was generally viewed as the more needy person in her relationship with John. I believe he suspected she was only trying to get John jealous, which I also personally believe was her intention. She never actually followed through with Higgins. All these people seemed to be in a state of arrested development, behavior I would expect of people in their twenties or thirties.
I’m not sure why KR would do this. She did start the text messages. That is not love for JOHN. That is manipulation. Was she trying to break up a friendship? Or get a new toy? There is no reasonably innocent reason.
I absolutely feel that KR is innocent of this. However, she is definitely a high strung person and there have been multiple incidents that have been discussed of her showing out. But this group of people were very rude to her and treated her HORRIBLY in the time of her finding John this way!! Especially before they decided to throw it on her!!
If a woman who never wanted kids tried to be in a relationship with a man who had kids and it not working out bc that wasn’t right for her doesn’t look bad at all to me. If she doesn’t want to mother his kids then it’s best for everyone that she doesn’t.
I think Jen did a favor to Karen because that comment that people referred to Karen as “the babysitter with benefits” validated her feelings and her acting out and looking for affirmation from others, Jen mentioned all the women that John had dated every street the moved. So she was probably noticing all of that and being frustrated and insecure so that gives perspective when reading these texts. And if Jen was bringing it up while she was panicking looking for him, I can imagine she would hint at that all the time.
I don't disagree but Karen saying John "hooked up with someone on vacation" when all he did was hug a friend makes her sound crazy and jealous. I'm leaning heavily not guilty I'm just saying I don't think it made her look great.
Agree. I think Karen definitely was insecure for all those reasons, so used Brian Higgins as a way to get John jealous & get his attention. This dynamic may have gone too far, getting the two of them into a drunken fight that ended with John dead.
It was nasty way they thought of Karen I think Karen was trying her best to keep the family unit but John kissing someone else after all Karen was doing with his family She was affectively their mom
@@KatyWithAWhyyy agreed but also makes me think that we only heard the "friend's" POV which was a little weird since she reacted super quickly with the "FU too", I guess I would have been caught off guard and frozen and WTF? instead of automatically hate a woman I've never met and John looking drunk. Not that I think he would go for the "kid/godson adjacent". But definitely there was some overreaction and drama going on, and Karen was quick to jump to conclusions and insecure.
@@KatyWithAWhyyydidn’t they also say Karen offered to pay for her room several times to apologize. But then, Karen is still adamant that John was “all over her”.
1:32:03 Jackson is correct in his interpretation of the federal statute's application to Higgins' use of the kiosk. There are warnings on all government computers that any use must be for your job or government purposes.
I think the sally port section was effective, putting BH and head cop there when her car was brought in and then magically tail light pieces found at the alberts.
I wonder if he had something to do with killing of John O’Keefe or just the cover up!? I find it weird that the only one that didn’t hide cell phone evidence is the “defendant” 🤨
On a scale of immorality, which is worse: pecking the lips and flirting with a guy when you have a boyfriend OR law enforcement lying on the stand and destroying evidence in a murder case?! Which of these two immoralities can cause more harm to others?
Right, and it just means we have evidence of a scenario that could create a physical fight with John. We didn't have that before these text messages but we do now.
As a woman, I kinda understand Karen & the text messages. I mean, John’s friend said she was just a “glorified babysitter with benefits.” John seemed drunk a lot in Aruba leaving Karen to deal with the kids. She wanted out but felt guilty about the kids. I saw it described as staying in a FOG - fear, obligation & guilt. I think she was just looking for a little attention but said John was a good guy. To me, the texts seem more of a reason for a fight between BH & JO than KR killing John.
@@Caroline.722 I agree. I think she loved John and wanted to be with him but found herself taking care of the kids (not her’s) while he partied. Imagine being in Aruba, having to go to the room to put the kids to bed and finding John drunk in the lobby all over a girl. I’d be pissed too. I think that made her feel like a “glorified babysitter with benefits.” And the mean girls John hung out with made sure she got that vibe. She was on the fence about John and evened the score by flirting, kissing and leading Higgins on. She indeed ghosted Higgins because she had accomplished her goal…John was jealous back. She had no motive to kill John. If she had found him in bed with Bella’s mom she would had the rage to murder. Nothing like that happened at the Waterfall at all. We saw on video. John didn’t even flirt with other women. I can see them getting into an argument about him wanting to continue to party at the Albert’s because Karen didn’t want to go and once again saw how he was leaving his niece home alone late into the night while he got wasted. Who was going to give him a ride home in the blizzard? All of those people were drunk. She was irritated and probably pissed at his poor choices. I’d like to hear the voicemails she left him. I vaguely remember hearing something about her yelling she hated him. So when he was out later and later getting drunk, she once again felt like a glorified babysitter with benefits. Still…is that motive to murder him or motive to leave him?
@@teraallan And the blond friend in Aruba saying John said “Karen is crazy” when she was calling him…I think as women we’ve all been labeled crazy one time or another by a man after his bad behavior. It’s called deflection. That whole testimony by the sisters did nothing for me.
My biggest issue is so many people seemed to be driving slightly intoxicated. Couldn’t it be an accident by any of them that night? The narrative of the common wealth has such little evidence with these witnesses
Slightly intoxicated? The only ones showing responsibility were the younger ones (although some were underage) they were the only ones arranging for rides.
I think they're saying he as in Higgins would have the motive for being ghosted by her. That's how I'm taking it. He'd have the motive to cover it up after he was beaten up
I think that Karen ghosted Higgins because perhaps she and John had a new conversation about their relationship. Things were on the upswing. That's why they seemed loving on that night at the baah; they were getting along. I think she searches for companionship when things are on the down with her and John.
She wanted a back door ... In case things didn't we work out she would dangle a carrot once in a while. I personally don't like that behaviour but it's common. .Karen is the kryptonite ... Common denominator ... Needy flirt
Why the lies, why do they remember everything the prosecution asks but can't recall, why delete texts, and calls, why the missing videos, why the shoddy investigation. Rehoming the dog, and getting rid of phones!??? IF KAREN HIT HIM???
if karen tried to hitting John one time she would do it again,Higgins testified today and i believe on him,my mind changed completely she did not love John Ok'keefe.
@@silviamedina6156who knows but that is no reason to kill him ! She could just breakup if she wanted to and was obviously not angry with him at the bar .
@@silviamedina6156huh??? Are you just ignoring all the evidence about his phone tracking him walking up and down stairs after she dropped him off. Then renovating their basement floor, selling their generational family home below market value within 3 months, discarding all of their phones despite a court order, deleting messages, googling how long it takes to die in the cold at 2:27 a.m. well before his body was found? FBI reconstruction is saying his injuries are not consistent with being hit by a car. A car does not attack your arm with dog teeth and punch you in the face multiple times and cause blunt force injury to your head. Lady, You can disagree with her flirting with another man when her relationship might have been on the rocks because she thought John kissed another girl, but you cannot deny that those people killed him and are covering up
I think Karen used Brian Higgins to get back at John didn’t want to go out with him or hook up with him. She just wanted to make John jealous she could’ve kissed him at the door, but she made sure she went outside and kissed him where the cameras would pick it up when she made John jealous, she dropped him like a hot potato
Honestly, to me the texts gave more motive to Brian than Karen. Karen came across as someone unhappy, maybe feeling unloved, looking for a one night stand and when he started getting creepy, she ghosted him. Brian wanted something more, and maybe didn't like her ghosting him and then ignoring him at the Waterfall. We've also seen indications that, he may sometimes get angry while drinking and not remember what he did the next day (the incident with the game controller). Between this testimony and what the people in the truck saw (or didn't see), right now the most probable theory is Brian hitting John in a drunken, jealous rage after Karen dropped him off (and Brian is why she didn't want to go in bc he had begun to creep her out). In that scenario, maybe the Alberts were fully unaware of what happened. Especially him turning over screenshots of what he thinks are important texts rather than letting the police pull them from his phone. I can't help but wonder how many he deleted.
I honestly don't think he himself killed John but in the aftermath definitely did some covering up with being a ATF agent. I think Brian Albert was more suspicious not coming outside to see what is going on in front of his house but would call Higgins throughout the day when he was at the station.
@H.P.93 I agree with your reasoning as to why Karen didn't go into the after party at the house, as I think the same! When they pull up to the house she sees Brian Higgens jeep, so doesn't want to go in and be cornered by him and risk anyone finding out that they had been texting. Who hit John? I'm still not sure yet, but I don't believe it was Karen.
They had said earlier that Karen was considering exploring other options. There was some venting, a peck on the cheek & a drink then she ghosted him. KR & OJO were planning 2 future trips!
I grew up in New England. This is so typical. This case has loads of ‘ she was mad at him’ and ‘he was a good guy. ‘. Yet no substance. Okay she might have cheated, he might have cheated. Who cares. What was the cause of death? What was the time of death? Jeez, most annoying trial ever. Think I am done.
When Jackson asked if Higgins told the chief he had been parked at crime scene hours before and Higgins said “no, there was no reason to tell him” Jackson should have asked “but there WAS a reason NOT to tell him, correct?”
The worst thing about all this is how bad the investigation was! The police left so many questions when they should've closed so many doors. Justice should've prevailed
If I text a woman and she doesn’t reply, I’m NEVER texting her without a prior reply. That so so so creepy. That makes it seem he was REALLY interested.
It’s some freshman year of college stuff. We’re all guilty of it at one point but most grow out of it around 19 years old. Karen absolutely flirted with him in the beginning but he is a child when it comes to that.
@jennyh8391 it feels like he was setting her up...not for the murder but to call her out when he wanted something to show John...squeal on her basically.
Like I said, in another reply, think of all the things through the years that we do when we’ve been drinking or a little high, I think she realize she might’ve went a little too far and pulled back out of embarrassment and feeling a little foolish that’s it he really likes her and it seem like she just wanted itcompanionship for the night a little bit of reversals there
If feels like a revenge kiss. Like she really believed John and the girl in Aruba were making out, almost convinced herself. Also if the girl is telling the truth about that. I don't know who to believe.
She was with John and maybe just didn’t want to answer the text in front of John. Also, maybe her coziness with John was a game trying to throw it in Brian’s face after she went over to Brian’s house and nothing happened.
This case is insane. I was telling my husband last night that every day I think it can't get worse, as in more sus, and yet it does. I was trying to explain this case to my mom, and I remembered like 17 of the suspicious things off the top of my head, but since I don't live with her, she doesn't get the daily recap of the 672 other shady things done in this case, so while it seems bad, its actually much worse if you actually watch the case or wrap ups daily. 🤷🏼♀️
God I’d be so embarrassed having these tests read if I were involved. I wouldn’t be able to even look at anyone. Maybe because I’m a really private person. I don’t know. Would anyone else feel really embarrassed?
I would be mortified if my texting as a teen became public … ya know like the age group that this stuff is normal but still cringey if made public.. but to think these are 40-50 YEAR OLDS is CRAZY to me 😭😭
There is so much that makes me question this case so far and I came in really knowing nothing. All these butt dails, all these rehomed phones, who just threws away a phone? You keep it as a backup or use as a trade in. All these witness can't recall this and that then a question they don't like is a definite absolutely not. Last point no one brought up but bugs me is John didn't want people on his lawn why would he get out where he would have to walk across someone's lawn???
Right like it’s a recession and idc what anyone says, cops do not make “my whole family throws away their iPhone every year (without even trading it in-just straight up purchasing a brand new thousand dollar phone)” type money. Even the cops who are making the low 6 figures we saw… their salaries would’ve been a lot in a previous time but they all have like 65 kids who are all in sports and huge houses and multiple cars and they go out and travel and stuff. IMO they’re either in EXTREME debt, they’re involved in something sketchy, or they’re lying. The only other thing I can think of is if they game the phone companies by constantly adding new lines or changing providers, which is probably a reasonable possibility considering the shit they are involved with
Yup! I don’t think they wanted him to die but rough him up and then threw him outside to kick him out of their little group. Then they realized he was dead and freaked the f out and the framing began
I'm kind of new here, but Peter you are outstanding. I love your approach and humility. I love how you explain all the things. I have a life, but suddenly, I don't, because I can't look away from this train wreck of a trial.
All these cops do is drink and drive all over town like they are above the law and then want to arrest karen for drinking and driving even though no one said she was acting drunk . This case is infuriating
Karen seems to have initiated this hook up, she is in a relationship with John O’Keefe and is playing games. Brian Higgins definitely is interested in her but is being skeptical about where she’s coming from about what she wants from any kind of relationship she’s interested in. It doesn’t seem like he’s only interested in a physical relationship.
JO’s “friend” group consisted of a bunch of caddy women who wanted him and hated KR because she wasn’t one of them and this entire exchange was KR just trying to make JO jealous. Once JO saw the video of her kissing Higgins, she ghosted Higgins and they were back to good. 🤦🏻♀️ honestly it gave more motive to Higgins than KR
I think so too. I was thinking John did get jealous cuz Karen rubbed it in… he went to confront Higgins about it both wasted off their butts and boom fight John is knocked out. Doesn’t take long
I don’t think BH did the deed but I do think it gives the jury reasonable doubt to whether or not she did! Personally I think it was Colin and that’s why the Mcabes and the Albert’s are trying so hard to cover it up! I think everyone’s covering for this kid because of the family connection! 🤷🏻♀️ they’re all destroying their phones, deleting evidence, inserting themselves in the investigation, lying, claiming “I don’t recall” to every cross question, and showing up to court and acting like they’re so inconvenienced by this. I don’t think they even realize how bad they look! It’s incredible! Innocent people do not bring their attorneys to court, “just in case” when they are a states witness… and attorneys who know their clients are guilty of something, tell them to “plea the 5th, if you have to” while their clients testifying! I don’t know just my opinion but the fish is stinkier on the prosecutions side IMO 🤷🏻♀️😂
So are we thinking higgins was going to the after party to see Karen. Karen drops off John only - Higgins gets into it with john. Goes to leave, is drunk. Fights John. John goes down. They tell Higgins to flee and go to the station for an alibi.
She also said that the whole sister‘s death and that situation changed him, which I am sure it did, but he needs help and he shouldn’t be pushing her away. He should be taking help from whom ever wants to be there and not be so critical. it is hard for someone to be an instant parent, when they never even had a baby let alone trying to include that into a relationship sounds very difficult
I listen with EDB, then listen to your opinion, then listen to Runkle’s opinion. Love getting all three of y’all’s thoughts and views from three different types of attorneys.
Not to mention the prosecutor just dragggggging on. Omg !! … ‘what kind of donuts did you buy, did they have sprinkles, were the sprinkles gluten free, how did you know they were gluten free, did you tip? How much did you tip, was it in cash? ‘ OMG just stop!
I’ll be honest. If I were on the jury…the fact that THIS court denied access to these witnesses phone and THIS prosecution are allowing curated evidence by witnesses when we KNOW some potentially incriminating data, or at least relevant data, was deleted from other people’s cell phones would make me side eye the entire court proceeding. These guys were sticking their fingers all into the investigation and a close family friend led an investigation. And I can’t help but think that if the state police had sought a Erich warrant for these same kind of phones in a different investigation the court either would have granted it or at least ordered the phone maintained until litigation was finished.
Because he IS distant from the story. He is an excellent witness and making the defense attorney look like the clown he is…again. The story is that Read admitted to murdering John. Higgins isn’t even relevant.
@danielearnshaw2221 for a case that clearcut, it's sure taking the prosecution a long time to prove John was murdered by her car... I'm not interested in motive or the Alberts, I want to know how this poor man died and what must have happened that night according to the evidence
@@dreamtrance9892 It’s taking a long time because the prosecutor, knowing the defense theory, is simply putting all the persons on the stand that the defense is accusing of conspiring to murder. If not for this ludicrous theory of the defense, the trial would be brief. Karen Read admitted to hitting John multiple times. This is the way a good prosecutor does it, proving there is nothing to hide.
@@danielearnshaw2221 IMO his testimony also led me to the idea that maybe John confronted him about the ring camera stuff he saw and a fight might’ve broken out that night 🤷🏻♀️ I think his testimony is super relevant and distancing isn’t the way to clear himself of any involvement just like the rest
All the witness/officers involved in this case need to be regularly tested for alcohol intoxication. It’s scary the drinking & driving they did. Defense did a good job today exposing a possible motive for Higgins.
Late rewatch crew here…..if you destroy your phone means something is on there that you do not want anyone to see, if I was on the jury that would be my opinion, especially anyone involved in the law profession.
Agreed. Especially when your on the LE and KNOW how important digital evidence is. He admitted he knew but his “friend” with the ATF had more experience.
“Law profession” is too generous a term. Now I know why the retired LE UA-cam creators call their career choice the “Industry.” When I hear the term “Industry” I associate it with s*x worker industry.
Higgins can’t hold any substantial conversation with Albert in 22 seconds. But he can consult with his attorney about whether to plead the fifth in ten seconds outside the courtroom. lol 🤣
I timed myself reading the questions/answers the during BA testimony about that 22 second call… you can have a conversation for that long and get out a few sentences. What are they hiding?
@@Jscrogg0302 yeah there’s a lot you can communicate in 22 seconds. The pledge of allegiance, the happy birthday song, the whole twinkle twinkle little star song, the entire Jack-and-Jill nursery rhyme, I could go on. Bet BH, former military federal agent, doesn’t consider the pledge of allegiance to be not substance 🤣
Why would he plead the 5th? Over the use of a machine owned by the Feds that he used so he could supply law enforcement with all the texts, including the embarrassing ones, to law enforcement to help in the investigation of his friend’s death? What a horrible thing to do! Oh he should have pled the 5th. 🤣😂😅🙃🤣
I agree. Fugitive aprehender 🧐 Ugh he has probably disturbed so many households doing that work and beat so many people up. Destroying your phone is never the move. Plus isn’t everything in the cloud anyway??
There a lots of masacre in U.S because some people instead to defend the Law enforcement they agree with the criminals.Karen is a CollegeTeacher she should know that driving drunk is ilegal in this country,she should be arrested because she said that she did not remember what she did that night,she throught herself in the bus.
No it is not. He hated his phone. There was NO ORDER that he maintain his phone. He had every right to change phones and trash his old one. Without being asked, he had already turned over all relevant texts to law enforcement to help in the investigation of his friend’s murder. Shame on Jackson for being so cruel and economical with the truth.
When you are innocent it is not difficult to answer questions. Each witness has been defensive and elusive. When they can’t reshape the narrative they just say “I don’t recall” or “maybe.” Anyone who wants to determine reasonable doubt just has to wonder how does a simple party where nobody interacted with John get so difficult to explain? It should be so easy. This level of difficulty clearly indicates something went on in that house.
Years ago SNL did a courtroom sketch with Eli Manning on the stand reviewing a series of immature and embarassing text exchanges. I used to think it was hilarious, but after today, I feel like the SNL writers came up really short.
I have to point out when I found out the CW put John’s niece and nephew on the witness list, it really pissed me off. Those poor kids have gone through so much in their short lives, and had the man who stepped in to raise them, ripped away from them. They aren’t witnesses to anything pertinent. The CW is making come into a court room, before a woman who they grew to care for, to answer questions about fighting. Arguing isn’t a motive in this case. Karen herself said John told her to take some time for herself if she couldn’t get over what happened. She didn’t need to get rid of him in any way in order to terminate their relationship. The fact that the judge allowed the texts between Karen and Higgins where she’s venting about the kids is just disgusting to me. I’m a mom of 8, I have 6 kids still at home. I talk to my husband and friends and vent about my kids constantly, it’s normal, I just don’t think the world, especially the kids, needed to hear that. I also want to point out - while these texts from Karen are flirtatious, I think it shows more of a motive for HIGGINS to want John out of the picture. She’s texting him pretty regularly, complaining about her relationship, he tells her she’s hot, she ends up ghosting him and then, after not hearing from her for a week, he sees her out, with John and they are happy, hugging, b ring affectionate. He knew he wasn’t going to have a shot with her because she wasn’t going to leave John. The only way he had a chance was if John couldn’t possibly be an option for her. I think it’s extremely suspicious that he didn’t send ANYTHING in response to her text on 1/29 when she said “John died”. That’s a huge red flag, one of many!
The text messages ended up helping Karen. It proved she saw John and Sullivan making out, it proved she was frustrated with her relationship with John, but still said he was a good guy. I think it showed John was neglecting her emotionally and taking advantage of her. I think it showed Higgins was not such a good friend as he stated. What best friend wants to have sex with your girl behind his back. The text messages started out bad but Alan Jackson exposed the truth.
I agree completely. I think any parent on the jury would be like "parenting is HARD." And we already have testimony that John would give her crap for spoiling the kids. She was TRYING and getting shit on for it anyway? Who wouldn't feel overwhelmed, stressed and angry when they're taking care of kids that aren't their own, watching them on NYE while your partner drinks and then you catch him in what you think is him feeling up another girl? I'd be SO pissed. But I don't think any of these texts show she wanted to kill him. I think Higgins was her way of testing to see if a dude would still want her.
@@amandamacabreYes! Glad that someone else sees this. I think that Karen was very upset and confused about her relationship with JO. She was feeling low and reached out to see whether another man would be attracted to her and/or interested in a relationship with her.
If he had access to her phone could it be possible that she never sent them and hes fabricated them to make it look like she didn't have a good relationship with John?
Yes, they could have been a lot more salacious, I don’t think that Karen was really physically attracted to him, he started it first when he beeped at her while she was using a ww , 🙋♀️✨
I think it's possible for someone to love specific children and treat them well while also being overwhelmed. Karen said in the texts she didn't have kids for a reason. That's a valid feeling to have, and I'm not surprised she had a hard time coping with helping John take care of two traumatized teenagers.
I’m excited for Tuesday with what Jackson was about to say, but couldn’t finish the questioning About Higgins, going to a military base and throwing his phone in one dumpster and the Sim card and another dumpster
@@helene_505 Oh really, I didn’t catch that part. Well I’m curious about Higgins disposing the phone and the military base and hopefully one of these lawyers brings that up
40:25 I like the way Brian seems to treat her in their convos though. Like the way he said “it does matter.” This trial has me hooked… I love learning more about what their lives were like. Especially interactions like this where they are confiding to someone else about how they really feel
I think her struggling to be a mom to children that aren’t hers doesn’t make her a bad person. I’ve been there, it isn’t always easy to take on that responsibility. It’s a lot. These texts aren’t great for her in any light, but I don’t think it makes her a murderer.
I agree. And it feels horrible to say anything negative about JOK. From the sounds of it he was a wonderful person but that doesn’t mean he’s perfect. No one is. But it does sound like maybe he did treat her like a babysitter with benefits. He went out drinking while she’s with the kids. He would criticize decisions she made in regards to them. But then leave her with them and go get drunk. He very well may have been part of the reason she was struggling with feelings about them. They weren’t hers so she had no say but yet she shared responsibility for them. It’s a fine line sometimes with bonus parents stepping in and it’s not easy for the actual parent either to know how to navigate that. So to me. None of that conversation made me feel any differently regarding the subject matter of who killed him. Everything about those messages was completely human and understandable to me.
At the end, AJ asked if he threw his phone away on a military base and SIM card somewhere else. Sooooooo, I wonder if they have a video of that. It just seems so specific to ask!???
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The Commonwealth has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that this case has nothing but reasonable doubt.😊
I can't get over that they're charging her with drunk driving, but all of these people were drunk driving
Yes a bunch of drunks. My husband worked in dedham. They are so parochial and townies don't let anyone in
YUP thats what happens when you are in a circle of police friends and family ... nice huh?
I thought the same thing these people are cops, friends of cops. Everybody’s driving around with a lot of liquor in them it seems.!
With all of them drinking and driving anyone of them could of hit John
@@remnant0888she is only one who lost their memory while being drunk!!!!!!! Could i have hit him? I left him at waterfall until Jen set her straight. Etc
Jason Jones said it well in chat, "10 butt dials, 10 people walked by a body on the lawn, 2 High ranking cop/atf threw phones away the day before notice…Solo Cups, leaf blower… crazyyy". This case is absolutely bizarre. While the flirtatious texts don't reflect Karen Read in the best light, it looks much worse for the federal officer.
horsemanure.
@@dutchboynl2082 the drunk driver whose job is policing violations involving alcohol, the guy under federal investigation who destroys his phone, looks like just another corrupt cop in this nest of drunken vipers being protected by Aunt Bev.
If Karen Read is guilty she could not have asked for better circumstances.
Sounds like a bunch of drunk Irish cops...oh yeah, they are! Lol
@@kparis77That’s true actually.
I feel so sorry for John's family sitting there listening to all this crap.
Sad 😞
No I feel the outcome will bring them the truth
Higgins said he fancied her from the minute he saw her and Karen sadly was feeling low and she and John were having issues but it don't make her wanting to injure John He was guardian to kids Karen wouldn't do this
Me too but they need to hear it. They drank the Albert's Kool-Aid and are blaming the wrong person.
@@LisaSimplifiedagree 💯!!!
these are the same people who arrest people for driving under influence.. What a JOKE...
It makes no sense that Brian Higgins would drive his personal vehicle, after drinking all night to the police station to park his official car, and then drive home all in, what they are calling, a blizzard! What was so important that the car had to be re-parked in a different place? I think it’s pretty ball to drive to the police station drunk, and start re-parking vehicles and then drive home. The officer at the station had to know he was drunk. By his own admission, he had 8 to 10 Jamison and Ginger drinks. I wouldn’t be able to stand upright, let alone drive a vehicle and a blizzard.
Plus they’re all like walking distance from each other. The fact they drove while drunk is inexcusable regardless but it’s just wild to me they had to drive when they could easily walk
@@MimiDidi121 It makes sense to me, as I live in the mountains and we have to move vehicles out of the parking lots before the plows get there for snow removal. If they are not moved by 3am, you get plowed in and they cannot plow around the cars.
Makes perfect sense, as I am sure he would not want to come back once he was home in bed. We got snow yesterday and I was out at 1 am the night before, moving my cars.
I agree it’s sad on their part.
It makes me so angry. If I didn’t personally know good law enforcement people, I’d think they were all corrupt. This “the law doesn’t apply to me” mentality for people in power disgusts me.
if i was in the jury, i could not get over the fact that so many of these people not only got rid of their phones, got rid of other elements of digital evidence, a family moved, got rid of the dog, and also the amount of "butt dials"!? don't get me started on how much they're parsing their answers on cross, sometimes even on direct. this is a whole mess
And butt swipes opening doors
Yeah, even if I could see John and Karen fighting (which I really could see), why all the super weird coincidences, suspicious behavior, cageyness on cross. I think of Brian Jr's testimony, Kerry Roberts, even Caitlin mostly. They saw what they saw, the remembered what they did and didn't what they didn't. There wasn't much fighting, even if defense tried. That's what I would expect to see from others in Albert/McCabe. I can even excuse Brian Albert and Higgins a bit cuz they are LE so I can see some bruising on questioning their authority, but why from Nicole, Julie, Chris, and mostly Jenn?? I'm sure a lot of Jen's stuff was cuz she liked to be in control, but why wasn't screenshots from other kids and all that -i could understand if she was Colin's mom who is accused of lying about being there and beating him up, but she's only Auntie JJ and not an Albert and it's her sister's family so why?? Why???
Why did Julie go get Chris and bring him back to the house -they were not there that night! Why did Higgins come to the house the next day? I get he was there, but wait at your house for police!
EXCELLENT POINTS!!! those should be in the defenses closing argument!! Can’t wait until this is over…. I can’t see how there could be anything but acquittal but can never count on it…
And yet they go with their ridiculous lines.. I wonder how dip corruption goes in that town if they believe they can achieve their goal
It's a hot mess inside a dumpster fire inside a train wreck. Well said.
If these people didn’t drink so much, maybe they would have better memories.
Exactly! Why are we believing testimony of any of these people? They were all drunk including Karen.
Same for Karen too.
😂😂
🤣
And better lives
Karen’s statement about having to raise kids with no say in ‘how’ is completely VALID, and it does not mean she didn’t like/love them. Any step parent gets this… it’s truly unique and quite a thankless job. I don’t think we can fault her for being honest when we hear this. And it certainly doesn’t mean she is a murderer!
FREE KAREN READ
Plus it seems he put a lot of responsibilities for the kids on her, for example, like in Aruba, but otherwise as well
He definitely used her
She was trashed that night! She probably doesn’t or didn’t even know she hit him, but clearly they were arguing in the car on their way to Brian’s house, and when he stepped out of the car Karen thought he gotten out and drove off, hitting him unbeknownst to her, pissed & buzzing she had no idea. But she is the sole responsible party for John’s death, I’m new to this case but I see it from miles away, wake up ppl … watching from Texas
@@melb2258fellow Texan here. I'm curious where you heard what Karen drank and how many she consumed? Furthermore, she's had many people day she wasn't drunk at all. It sounds like you want her to be drunk so all the pieces fit together in your mind. I can't wait until the defense starts and you hear the FBI report saying there's no possible way the vehicle could've hit and killed John. 😊
Karen is insecure & never fit in with John's family or friends. Imo, she wanted to feel needed & liked. This is one of the reasons she took care of the kids. Then she complained about not having enough help. John's mother or parents were there to help. However, Karen didn't like that either. Karen & John were not happy in the relationship. I get the sense John was going to break up with her but she kept holding on. I don't know if she killed John or not. There is definitely reasonable doubt.
As a trial lawyer since 1993, watching AJ & this defense team vs Lally & the Commonwealth is like watching Michael Jordan & the Olympic Dream Team vs high schoolers.
There is a concept called confirmation bias, by which we all, including jurors, filter new information to coincide with a pre-held belief. Here, for the trial’s first three weeks, the prosecution’s witnesses nearly universally presented KR in a positive light (buying the Aruba drinks, saying she felt honored to be there, apologizing over the mistake with the younger Aruba sister and drunk John, offering to pay for her room even, taking care of the orphaned kids with JO etc).
The prosecution allowed this knowing they had Brian Higgins’ and KR’s flirtatious texts that immediately painted KR in a negative light and gave her motive. That text evidence showed her apology over Aruba was neither heart felt, nor did she believe her Aruba sister accusation was a mistake. She’s going around John’s back and doesn’t want the kids that John so graciously took in, when they allowed the impression for the first three weeks that she was like a mother to them.
Why not make that your first witness? Instead, they allowed the seeds of conspiracy and collusion against KR to spread and thus confirmation bias.
By the time Brian Higgins took the stand on the Friday of week 3 and recounted KR’s aggressive, purposefully obtuse, and somewhat psycho emails to him about him being “hot” and “without kids,” confirmation bias had likely cemented already in favor of KR. Indeed, it appears she was toying with him and his emotions on purpose in a fatal attraction manner, including Bunny Boiling potential.
Because of the Commonwealth’s delay in putting Higgins on, however, the texts between Higgins and Read lost much of their impact. In fact, her toying with Higgins and then abruptly stopping her texts to him on Jan. 23, 2022, ended up providing the most cogent plausible motive for Higgins and Albert to lure John to the after bars at Albert’s house.
Fueled by a day of drinking, his sexual interest in KR, jealousy, and his ignored texts to KR after 1.23.22, seeing KR and JO lovey dovey at the Waterfall while she ignored him ignited a rage in Higgins. He began play fighting and acting out at the Waterfall in preparation for what he was going to do to JO later. Higgins was so eager to get JO there he even texted him at 12:20 asking where he was.
Higgins’ conduct after his 12:20 am text to John on Jan. 29, 2022, smacks of guilt and cover up.
I mean, who goes to their police station office at 1:30 am on a Saturday after a long night of drinking? Who illegally uses federal computer machinery to cherry pick info off his phone and then literally destroy the phone and sim card? Who magically butt dials someone for 22 seconds at 2:22 am in response to the 2:22 am one-second, during-sex butt dial from the Boston cop who had another Boston cop lying dead in his yard at that time? Is it just a coincidence that 5 minutes later, at 2:27, Jen Googles “Hos long to die in cold?”
The prosecution had one chance to make a first impression on its murder defendant before confirmation bias kicks in, and they’ve flubbed it. The doubt in this case is not only reasonable but overwhelming.
Thanks for your perspective. What also got overlooked is when Higgins had to read or admit that at the Fed grand jury he stated a tall dark haired man came in and he B-lined out of the house. He fell SHORT IMO of saying it was JO. Clearly it seems he is restricted with testimony by having his lawyer present. He may IMO plead the 5th if his conscience if he has one does not get the better of him. He will suffer a very troubled weekend from yesterday's shot at the truth. He may rather go down in flames with his pals. It's clearer from his testimony something really bad happened to JO in that house and he's willing to help cover it up. Butt dials, being at the police station, return to the scene for in person conversation, destroying his phone and changing numbers, access to the bay where the car is and staying at the police station for a whole weekend while off duty...the list is endless
You are seriously equating this boring flirtation to fatal attraction 🥴
@@MsK_1111 KR ain’t the angel I was led to believe for 3 weeks is all … there’s still doubt but this is one f’d up friend group
@@My2Stents interesting bc i never interpreted the prior testimonies as Karen being an angel.
@@MsK_1111 what testimony, other than the younger Aruba sister, painted KR in bad light? Maybe I missed it … willing to listen but just perspectives … fascinating case
Listening to you, I realized he made a big deal about drinking and driving a work vehicle was a big no no. Then he left drunk to move work cars?!?
Exactly what i was thinking
Then after moving cars, he went home and drank some more before going to sleep. I mean, they seem pretty alcoholics down there.
Hypocrites beget hypocrites 😢
Right ... drinking and driving in a company car is a no go, drinking and driving in your own car is fine, then returning to work and moving cars is also fine? Makes no sense.
Makes no sense at all WHATSOEVER!!
Canton seems like a wierd place. Everyone is drunk driving. Everyone is buttdialing. Everyone is forgetting calls. People rehoming phones. Etc. Etc. Etc.
Not sure everyone in Canton does the above. However, this “friend group” clearly is founded upon excess alcohol consumption, drinking while under the influence, and sophomoric behavior. It smacks of “Swingers Gone Wrong” Club.
Rehoming dogs…
Sketchy 😮
Bunch of middle aged professionals acting like college sophomores
They are all very affluent also. Entitled.
I've never watched a trial that was as infuriating as this one. All of these witnesses who refuse to answer simple questions, who don't mind lying, who argue instead of just saying yes or no, who got rid of their phones. There's a clear pattern with these toxic people.
It's called scripted and leaks and Deception
How would you feel if you were attacked by a shark who is trying to push a ridiculous agenda that they were all involved in a murder and coverup of their beloved brother in blue? How would you feel about the harassment and torment they and their children have all had to endure? If they want their testimony understood exactly, they should have that right. Jackson has not been respectful to any of them and has tried to twist their words every which way and sneak in statements that are untrue.
Lol. Jackson wants you to believe there was a court order that told them to not mess with their phones or destroy them, but that is a LIE. He filed a motion about that, but it was denied and there was NO order by the court. Higgins voluntarily gave the relevant texts to law enforcement when he was not even asked to do so!
No. There are not even that many good actors in Hollyweird. The witnesses are not acting.
Amber was definitely infuriating
Not being in a perfect relationship doesn't equal murder.
The text just shows there was a situation that could have caused John to be in a fight that evening. Its motive for someone else to hurt John.
They were not married, no commitment.
@@cristipratt2844 I wouldn't assume the texts messages are accurate either. He could have deleted specific messages from what he provided that make it look like she was flirting with him.
@@nicci337 who is Etta’s boyfriend? Collin?😱
@@nicci337 That's what I noticed - if anything, they give Higgins more of a motive than they do Read!
My issue is that Higgins went to the Canton PD after he said he left Fairmont because he had a long day. Sorry, you don’t go to Canton PD after drinking for over 8 hours to do “administrative work”
I have huge concerns about how much drinking and driving seemed to be going on by law enforcement people! people
He had to move vehicles. Did you watch today?
the same vehicles that he himself parked there just hours earlier, knowing the storm was coming. he also walked around the building according to the keycard data
He didn’t do administrative work. He moved vehicles
@@dixiecrane1yes! Everyone was drinking and driving (even the teens); yet no one seems to care.
They charged 2nd degree because they thought she would plea out for a lesser charge and it would all go away. They didn’t expect her to have the resources to get this type of defense.
Well said. Exactly.
No, my understanding was that it was determined Murder 2nd after the Grand Jury as the 60 ft backup indicated intent.
Also, all of these married women text John constantly. That was clear. I believe she was extremely insecure in John’s friend group. She made a bad choice with Higgins, but I kind of get it. That friend group is so toxic.
And get in his business
Same, I can understand Karen’s point of view.
Agreed.
I think Karen was definitely tipsy when she went home had seen Higgins and was thinking maybe I could have a good relationship with him if things were fizzling out with John as it seems it was getting a little stressful with the kids and caring was not feeling appreciated so you know when you’re drinkingyou reach out and that’s what she’s doing but she’s tipsy so she’s not answering back. She’s probably doing other things getting ready for bed who knows it’s innocent
I also think that after that trip and thinking he was cheating, she was really feeling insecure. It was noted that JO had MANY girlfriends. Yes, she made an unwise decision with those messages to BH, but that doesn’t mean she killed JO. It just meant she was second guessing her relationship. It did not go any further …
Honestly, Imho, Prosecution has painted a stronger case for Brian Higgins being the murderer than KR.
That’s exactly how I felt too!
Exactly! This guy probably got into with John and it escalated and ended up with John being beaten to death or nearly and thrown out in the snow! Seems so likely. I drive for a living and hearing how far Karen would’ve needed to back up and hit him while being under the influence is not only extremely difficult, but for most drivers next to impossible. Physics never lie. I’d be focusing on these things rather than texts that actually make your witness for the prosecution look even more guilty!
...good job, prosecution.
He’s part of the cover-up … and yes is allegedly guilty of at a minimum, participating in the coverup and possibly participating in moving the body
Yea!
Every couple in the world has their own issues and problems but this doesn’t mean one will kill the other
Yes. I don’t think she purposefully killed him. But they were both drunk and fighting and maybe she hit him on accident and just kept going because she was pissed. She clearly woke up terrified that he was gone and that she possibly did it. I think the Alberts are shady as hell. That’s why this case is like a soap opera. So many ups and downs.
@@jsm8841but they weren’t fighting at the bar they were so affectionate that the colakesis wife told her husband she wished he was more like that to her. And all the witnesses that the CW called said they saw the car and it was always moving forward slowly so how did she back into him? I’m not saying the Albert’s/macabes/huggens. Killed him on purpose but they might have accidentally killed him Where is his shoe and hat
@@karennotAkaren1 I wonder if they were being extra affectionate because Higgins was at the bar and Karen was putting on a show to make him jealous. It literally is like a soap opera. I hope there is justice for John somehow in all of this
@@jsm8841 She didn't acknowledge him even once that night, according to Higgins' own testimony. And had ghosted his text messages more than a week prior.
I think Jen did Karen a favor telling court how John loved previous girlfriend more and used Karen as a babysitter with benefits. Makes Karen’s actions with Higgins seem less out of left field. And Higgins texts telling Karen’s version of NYE shows she looked down on John for his behavior, it wasn’t just jealousy.
I think Higgins was a “get back at John” thing that she didn’t follow through on.. These prosecution witnesses come across as evasive/combative and out right liars..To be clear I’m not in Karen Reeds camp it’s just my observation from listening to these people’s testimony..
I agree. I think Karen was feeling like the babysitter with benefits after a while. She was doing all of the parent duty while John was out getting drunk a lot. I think that statement was compelling and actually helped the defense.
Higgins sincerely liked her
Where there’s smoke there’s fire. He sounded like a flirt and judging by the demeanor of the women he associated with on a daily basis he clearly if he didn’t cheat lead women on. John wasn’t a saint but a human the same s Karen. I’m going on the case presented before me sounds like they had an open relationship and she would get jealous. So far this case makes me believe people hate Karen and want to bring her down because of personal reasons instead of facts.
Yea I agree I don't think the babysitter with benefits helps the prosecution as much as they think. I can see it hurting their case. Jen was nearly manically gleeful to get that dig in at Karen
What I understood about the exchange regarding the children is that “it was complicated” because he had taken a responsibility but was “not really onto it”; which probably meant she had an extra burden taking care oof the kids, even though she had never looked forward to “having kids”, and was not even “recognized for it”.
I can somehow understand her. Taking care of kids that are not yours as you come into a new relationship is very hard. Even when you do your best, recognition, if ever, might take 20 years or more. But that does not make her a nasty lady, and it is not motive.
At this point, you could show me a video of her intentionally hitting him and screaming "I'm leaving you for dead" out the window and I would still want to know WTH was going on with these other people bc they act so SUSPICIOUS
You missed when the defense said did you throw the card in one dumpster and the phone in another dumpster.😮 So I wonder if they have cameras at the military base
I seriously hope they do and we see it
FBI ORANGE ARE IN CANTON NOW
You missed the best part 💀🤣
They say... lawyers don't ask questions they don't know the answers to.
@@DJHalpin which is?
Best advice given in training from an attorney…. Absolutely NEVER post anything in a text message or email that you wouldn’t want to see in court. Blown up great big for all in court to read.
Oops 😬
Right! 😂😂
I never put in writing of any kind , negative comments to or about anyone . If it is written down then it is unforgettable. Verbal can be moved on from , and forgiven .
Yes. My dad was a Verizon guy for 50 years “ Texar legal documents and not a lot of people know that. Make sure you never text anything you wouldn’t want used against you.
Great advice! This entire message thread gave me secondhand embarrassment.
Wow, Peter, I respect so much that you acknowledged how awful it would be to have these texts come out so publicly and refuse to join the people making fun of him. It made me want to cry and I'm thankful there are people like you in this world to bring us back to level when the crowd mentality takes over. 💕💕💕 You have a good heart, my man.
Regardless how this trial turns out, I like Alan Jackson..
Avenetti? Is also great!!
Both are awesome but Jackson has the best tone
I think he was Harvey Weinstein and Kevin spacey’s attorney. I’m not saying he’s morally a good person but if I ever get into some crap and need a good attorney I’m calling him.
Jackson is on fire today. Their prep is superb. Gawd, this would make a great film.
I think so too
Netflix is in the house..
It'll have to be a entire show series! Way too many characters & subplots to fit in a movie
He seemed off to me today.
I think it will be made into a movie, mini series or a muti part documentary
I have been with my BF 7 years and he has a daughter he has full custody of, we have talked about this case. I have been exactly in Karens position.
Step parenting, going from no kids to being a caregiver, and having to respect someone else’s boundaries is hard.
I used to vent ALL THE TIME to my friends about being a glorified baby sitter, I love him and respect him so much as a single father. So admirable. But felt like I would never amount or be as important as his baby. I sought emotional intimacy when I would feel lonely.
We are great now, but step parents know that her texts may seem bad… but it’s not enough motive for me. Most have probably been there too.
I am new to this case, so i just want physical evidence now. Poor motive imo, BUT accidental while drinking is still on the table for me.
If they have nothing to hide; why destroy phones, ect… rehome dog, change basement flooring; fill in pool, then sell home, and use SOLO CUPS, to obtain evidence, no chain of custody ect…. TOO MANY SUS’S‼️
EXACTLY!!!!!
+ JM brainwashing everybody's that KR said something she didn't said.
There all wicked and guilty and if these jurors don't see it today.. then there lost😢
All of this gives so much reasonable doubt. This case is so screwed I can’t believe they took it to court
Something is definitely going on in that toxic group of people.
Why would he text John if he's coming? My theory is that John came into the house and confronted him about Karen, and then they started to fight..
Guessing isn’t fact.
No one ever said it was fact. Commenter said “my theory.”
100%
And all the cops drink driving means we know that they have total confidence if they do something wrong the other cops will cover it up. They would never risk their careers over a dui.
I think he texted John because he couldn’t text Karen and he wanted to see her/talk to her. Definitely possible that there’s was an argument / fight between Brian and John. But also possible a fight between Karen and John where she sped away and hit him. I see her in a different light after this. She was jealous of the kids taking up too much of John’s time. She wanted more from him. She thought he cheated and wanted to get back at him. Wanted a one night stand and Brian seemed interested in more and I don’t think that was what she was after. She wanted John’s attention. A being drunk makes people do stupid things.
I think John found out then he confronted Brian Higgins at Fairview. Led to a fight with the Alberts joining in. They threw him out on the lawn. The cover up began with the group. None of them were true friends with John. So sad!
Just think how many of these witnesses "changed; threw-out;re-homed" their phones immediately after this happened...At least 5 plus....
Incriminating evidence.
So true
When the standard way is just to throw it in the “phone” drawer that we all have at home.
@@gpwarrior9847i have a phone so damaged it will never be used again and yet it's in my drawer 😂
@@gpwarrior9847yep I have tons of old phones just sitting in a drawer too 😂
I wish the prosecution would stop creating a soap opera and just say what happened, when it happened, how it happened and the evidence. If I were the jury I would be irritated right now.
If I were on the jury I would be irritated by Jackson and his trickery, which prolongs everything.
There is no way I could sit through this. I would lose focus and have to fight eye rolling
@carlosvelasquez9007 Yes, and Jackson is inappropriately attacking every tiny irrevelant detail to drag it out even further.
If I were a juror by now I would not trust him after he pulled all those tricks. I just hope the jury recognizes his sneaky ways. He said many derogatory things in his comments that he puts into his questions. He really is pushing it.
The CW was supposed to be done their case by now. Lally is a terrible prosecutor who asks questions like what was this irrelevant guy in Aruba drinking... ridiculous
The phone was trashed after he selected what information would be given? THATS ENOUGH RIGHT THERE FOR REASONABLE DOUBT. And if he had the option to destroy it legally, he STILL should have known better and kept it just in case to protect his name
IMHO Higgins was suspicious of Karen's intentions because she never seemed interested in him before, and also I believe she was generally viewed as the more needy person in her relationship with John. I believe he suspected she was only trying to get John jealous, which I also personally believe was her intention. She never actually followed through with Higgins. All these people seemed to be in a state of arrested development, behavior I would expect of people in their twenties or thirties.
They have a name for these people….losers
I’m not sure why KR would do this. She did start the text messages. That is not love for JOHN. That is manipulation. Was she trying to break up a friendship? Or get a new toy? There is no reasonably innocent reason.
@@Anna-ww4pv Because some people thrive on chaos.
KR was trying to make John jealous because he flirted with that other girl in Aruba. She knew where cameras were and had him exit that way
I absolutely feel that KR is innocent of this.
However, she is definitely a high strung person and there have been multiple incidents that have been discussed of her showing out. But this group of people were very rude to her and treated her HORRIBLY in the time of her finding John this way!! Especially before they decided to throw it on her!!
I don’t think Karen’s guilty, but I was laughing at how uncomfortable she was moving around during the flirty text read, I don’t blame her lol
She’s a cutie! She reminds me of Rep AOC! Sassy, sexy but also girl next door!!
@@gingerhickerson5792bahahahahhHahahahh
@@gingerhickerson5792she's beautiful and was so cute when she was younger absolutely and still is. I hate AOC though 😂 but she's pretty
@@primalcritters I hate her too!😬😁
She looks a bit looney to me, especially when she gets those crazy eyes.
If a woman who never wanted kids tried to be in a relationship with a man who had kids and it not working out bc that wasn’t right for her doesn’t look bad at all to me. If she doesn’t want to mother his kids then it’s best for everyone that she doesn’t.
But he is watching the kids, did she love him or not?
@@Maria-em3juyou can love someone and not love the situation they’re in, and know it’s wrong for you.
I think Jen did a favor to Karen because that comment that people referred to Karen as “the babysitter with benefits” validated her feelings and her acting out and looking for affirmation from others, Jen mentioned all the women that John had dated every street the moved. So she was probably noticing all of that and being frustrated and insecure so that gives perspective when reading these texts. And if Jen was bringing it up while she was panicking looking for him, I can imagine she would hint at that all the time.
I don't disagree but Karen saying John "hooked up with someone on vacation" when all he did was hug a friend makes her sound crazy and jealous. I'm leaning heavily not guilty I'm just saying I don't think it made her look great.
Agree. I think Karen definitely was insecure for all those reasons, so used Brian Higgins as a way to get John jealous & get his attention. This dynamic may have gone too far, getting the two of them into a drunken fight that ended with John dead.
It was nasty way they thought of Karen I think Karen was trying her best to keep the family unit but John kissing someone else after all Karen was doing with his family She was affectively their mom
@@KatyWithAWhyyy agreed but also makes me think that we only heard the "friend's" POV which was a little weird since she reacted super quickly with the "FU too", I guess I would have been caught off guard and frozen and WTF? instead of automatically hate a woman I've never met and John looking drunk. Not that I think he would go for the "kid/godson adjacent". But definitely there was some overreaction and drama going on, and Karen was quick to jump to conclusions and insecure.
@@KatyWithAWhyyydidn’t they also say Karen offered to pay for her room several times to apologize. But then, Karen is still adamant that John was “all over her”.
When you actually listen to the whole thing on these texts I believe it helped Karen Reed a lot
Reading between the lines, John didn’t make her feel secure, she acted out but didn’t really want to leave . She loved him.
1:32:03 Jackson is correct in his interpretation of the federal statute's application to Higgins' use of the kiosk. There are warnings on all government computers that any use must be for your job or government purposes.
I think the sally port section was effective, putting BH and head cop there when her car was brought in and then magically tail light pieces found at the alberts.
Agreed. Super sketch.
The sally port camera simply doesn’t recall and needs to see the report to refresh its memory
@@sammurphhhhHH excellent comment 👏🏼
More of that will come when Proctor and others are on the stand.
Carnt wait for proctor on the stand
The fact that he keeps calling her defendant instead of Karen is a clever tactic.
I wonder if he had something to do with killing of John O’Keefe or just the cover up!? I find it weird that the only one that didn’t hide cell phone evidence is the “defendant” 🤨
Thugs he Brian Chris and Colin A and BH! We all run this town, we do what we like when and to whom!
On a scale of immorality, which is worse: pecking the lips and flirting with a guy when you have a boyfriend OR law enforcement lying on the stand and destroying evidence in a murder case?! Which of these two immoralities can cause more harm to others?
Right, and it just means we have evidence of a scenario that could create a physical fight with John. We didn't have that before these text messages but we do now.
As a woman, I kinda understand Karen & the text messages. I mean, John’s friend said she was just a “glorified babysitter with benefits.” John seemed drunk a lot in Aruba leaving Karen to deal with the kids. She wanted out but felt guilty about the kids. I saw it described as staying in a FOG - fear, obligation & guilt. I think she was just looking for a little attention but said John was a good guy. To me, the texts seem more of a reason for a fight between BH & JO than KR killing John.
@@Caroline.722 I agree. I think she loved John and wanted to be with him but found herself taking care of the kids (not her’s) while he partied. Imagine being in Aruba, having to go to the room to put the kids to bed and finding John drunk in the lobby all over a girl. I’d be pissed too. I think that made her feel like a “glorified babysitter with benefits.” And the mean girls John hung out with made sure she got that vibe. She was on the fence about John and evened the score by flirting, kissing and leading Higgins on. She indeed ghosted Higgins because she had accomplished her goal…John was jealous back. She had no motive to kill John. If she had found him in bed with Bella’s mom she would had the rage to murder. Nothing like that happened at the Waterfall at all. We saw on video. John didn’t even flirt with other women.
I can see them getting into an argument about him wanting to continue to party at the Albert’s because Karen didn’t want to go and once again saw how he was leaving his niece home alone late into the night while he got wasted. Who was going to give him a ride home in the blizzard? All of those people were drunk. She was irritated and probably pissed at his poor choices.
I’d like to hear the voicemails she left him. I vaguely remember hearing something about her yelling she hated him. So when he was out later and later getting drunk, she once again felt like a glorified babysitter with benefits. Still…is that motive to murder him or motive to leave him?
@@teraallan And the blond friend in Aruba saying John said “Karen is crazy” when she was calling him…I think as women we’ve all been labeled crazy one time or another by a man after his bad behavior. It’s called deflection. That whole testimony by the sisters did nothing for me.
Both are harmful to others.
My biggest issue is so many people seemed to be driving slightly intoxicated. Couldn’t it be an accident by any of them that night? The narrative of the common wealth has such little evidence with these witnesses
Right! Don't be riding around amin canton
This is an excellent point … all those vehicles rolling up to the house and leaving…. And I’m still confused as to BH plow jeep and when he left?
Maybe they are covering their accident 🤷♀️
Slightly intoxicated? The only ones showing responsibility were the younger ones (although some were underage) they were the only ones arranging for rides.
Strange, the biggest issue for me is them lying under oath, destroying and hiding evidence, and covering up a murder of a police officer!
She did not kill her boyfriend over this “relationship”. 9 days worth of odd texts does not a motive make. She definitely ghosted him.
I think they're saying he as in Higgins would have the motive for being ghosted by her. That's how I'm taking it. He'd have the motive to cover it up after he was beaten up
I think that Karen ghosted Higgins because perhaps she and John had a new conversation about their relationship. Things were on the upswing. That's why they seemed loving on that night at the baah; they were getting along.
I think she searches for companionship when things are on the down with her and John.
Think she wanted to be wanted and enjoyed flirty banter
@@girlracer265 agreed!
She wanted a back door ... In case things didn't we work out she would dangle a carrot once in a while. I personally don't like that behaviour but it's common. .Karen is the kryptonite ... Common denominator ... Needy flirt
@60nygal I agree, but I don't think, 100%, that she ran him over! Nope.
Totally agreed
Why the lies, why do they remember everything the prosecution asks but can't recall, why delete texts, and calls, why the missing videos, why the shoddy investigation. Rehoming the dog, and getting rid of phones!??? IF KAREN HIT HIM???
if karen tried to hitting John one time she would do it again,Higgins testified today and i believe on him,my mind changed completely she did not love John Ok'keefe.
@@silviamedina6156who knows but that is no reason to kill him ! She could just breakup if she wanted to and was obviously not angry with him at the bar .
Bingo.. if I'm a juror I say today's witness told me everything 😮😢
@@silviamedina6156 and apparently he didn't love her, since Jen said John just considered Karen a babysitter with benefits
@@silviamedina6156huh??? Are you just ignoring all the evidence about his phone tracking him walking up and down stairs after she dropped him off. Then renovating their basement floor, selling their generational family home below market value within 3 months, discarding all of their phones despite a court order, deleting messages, googling how long it takes to die in the cold at 2:27 a.m. well before his body was found? FBI reconstruction is saying his injuries are not consistent with being hit by a car. A car does not attack your arm with dog teeth and punch you in the face multiple times and cause blunt force injury to your head. Lady, You can disagree with her flirting with another man when her relationship might have been on the rocks because she thought John kissed another girl, but you cannot deny that those people killed him and are covering up
I think Karen used Brian Higgins to get back at John didn’t want to go out with him or hook up with him. She just wanted to make John jealous she could’ve kissed him at the door, but she made sure she went outside and kissed him where the cameras would pick it up when she made John jealous, she dropped him like a hot potato
Not the wisest behavior , apparently
Honestly, to me the texts gave more motive to Brian than Karen. Karen came across as someone unhappy, maybe feeling unloved, looking for a one night stand and when he started getting creepy, she ghosted him. Brian wanted something more, and maybe didn't like her ghosting him and then ignoring him at the Waterfall. We've also seen indications that, he may sometimes get angry while drinking and not remember what he did the next day (the incident with the game controller).
Between this testimony and what the people in the truck saw (or didn't see), right now the most probable theory is Brian hitting John in a drunken, jealous rage after Karen dropped him off (and Brian is why she didn't want to go in bc he had begun to creep her out). In that scenario, maybe the Alberts were fully unaware of what happened.
Especially him turning over screenshots of what he thinks are important texts rather than letting the police pull them from his phone. I can't help but wonder how many he deleted.
I honestly don't think he himself killed John but in the aftermath definitely did some covering up with being a ATF agent. I think Brian Albert was more suspicious not coming outside to see what is going on in front of his house but would call Higgins throughout the day when he was at the station.
I agree with you yaryaa
@H.P.93 I agree with your reasoning as to why Karen didn't go into the after party at the house, as I think the same! When they pull up to the house she sees Brian Higgens jeep, so doesn't want to go in and be cornered by him and risk anyone finding out that they had been texting. Who hit John? I'm still not sure yet, but I don't believe it was Karen.
They had said earlier that Karen was considering exploring other options. There was some venting, a peck on the cheek & a drink then she ghosted him. KR & OJO were planning 2 future trips!
💯 exactly
I grew up in New England. This is so typical. This case has loads of ‘ she was mad at him’ and ‘he was a good guy. ‘. Yet no substance. Okay she might have cheated, he might have cheated. Who cares. What was the cause of death? What was the time of death? Jeez, most annoying trial ever. Think I am done.
I can't watch it. It's unwatchable. And I was looking forward to it.
Hopefully that's coming soon 🤷🏽♀️
And they’re all Irish! 😂
Really it’s unwatchable. As a new Englander I totally agree this whole case is pure drama. She backed over her man drunk, period. The rest is fluff.
@thescibsters2049 what do you mean by 'they are all Irish' I'm curious as to your comment, being Irish myself. 🤔
When Jackson asked if Higgins told the chief he had been parked at crime scene hours before and Higgins said “no, there was no reason to tell him” Jackson should have asked “but there WAS a reason NOT to tell him, correct?”
“The real deal” I take to mean more than an affair. He wants an authentic relationship.
Cops are all trained to be observant. These cops, Alberts/Higgins are some of the most unobservant people to be believable.
They’re not Sherlock Holmes they’re just goons
He said he plowed the driveway when he first arrived, but then said the snow wasn't even stuck to the ground when he left. Hmm👀
Jackson is a brilliant attorney
I think your commentary on this trial is the best on UA-cam. You keep the pace up, too.
Nope. Brooks commentary was golden.
I like EDB more. But watch them both
I agree
A link for brooks , edb????
I like his commentary but I hate that the trial testimony is sped up so they all sound like they are continually inhaling helium.
The worst thing about all this is how bad the investigation was! The police left so many questions when they should've closed so many doors. Justice should've prevailed
Law enforcement corruption in MA is rampant! The feds MUST do something about it now!
If I text a woman and she doesn’t reply, I’m NEVER texting her without a prior reply. That so so so creepy. That makes it seem he was REALLY interested.
It’s some freshman year of college stuff. We’re all guilty of it at one point but most grow out of it around 19 years old. Karen absolutely flirted with him in the beginning but he is a child when it comes to that.
As a female…YEP
She started it in all fairness 🏴🇬🇧
So he’s creepy for responding to her texts and being interested? Karen started texting him and he responded and she was leading him on.
@jennyh8391 it feels like he was setting her up...not for the murder but to call her out when he wanted something to show John...squeal on her basically.
At the beginning with the texts I started to feel bad for him, but the end changed my mind about him. This was by far the most jaw dropping for me
Same!! The whole thing had me
😳😲🫣🤔🤨😠😡🤯
Their flirting was like two high school kids … maybe even junior high. 😂
BH’s missing phone has everything to do with those who also rehomed their phones.
There is no missing phone!
@barbaramay1866 it's missing because it was destroyed.
Absolutely ghosted him. She caught a case of guilt and pulled back. May be a point for her that she didn’t follow through.
Like I said, in another reply, think of all the things through the years that we do when we’ve been drinking or a little high, I think she realize she might’ve went a little too far and pulled back out of embarrassment and feeling a little foolish that’s it he really likes her and it seem like she just wanted itcompanionship for the night a little bit of reversals there
If feels like a revenge kiss. Like she really believed John and the girl in Aruba were making out, almost convinced herself. Also if the girl is telling the truth about that. I don't know who to believe.
She tried to follow through by going to Higgins home. She said in her messages that inviting a man for drinks means sex. But Higgins rejected her
She was with John and maybe just didn’t want to answer the text in front of John. Also, maybe her coziness with John was a game trying to throw it in Brian’s face after she went over to Brian’s house and nothing happened.
@@bethmccrae2714 I didn't get that from the story, and not what happened that night for sure.
This case is insane. I was telling my husband last night that every day I think it can't get worse, as in more sus, and yet it does. I was trying to explain this case to my mom, and I remembered like 17 of the suspicious things off the top of my head, but since I don't live with her, she doesn't get the daily recap of the 672 other shady things done in this case, so while it seems bad, its actually much worse if you actually watch the case or wrap ups daily. 🤷🏼♀️
God I’d be so embarrassed having these tests read if I were involved. I wouldn’t be able to even look at anyone. Maybe because I’m a really private person. I don’t know. Would anyone else feel really embarrassed?
No one ever plans for this kind of sheet!
lol! True
I would be mortified if my texting as a teen became public … ya know like the age group that this stuff is normal but still cringey if made public.. but to think these are 40-50 YEAR OLDS is CRAZY to me 😭😭
@@kimberlykendall3835 Agree. So much unnecessary drama.
@@vincedidiana5781 and they’re all like “see how awful Karen is” but I’m like.. you guys are all cut from the same cloth 😭🫣
There is so much that makes me question this case so far and I came in really knowing nothing. All these butt dails, all these rehomed phones, who just threws away a phone? You keep it as a backup or use as a trade in. All these witness can't recall this and that then a question they don't like is a definite absolutely not. Last point no one brought up but bugs me is John didn't want people on his lawn why would he get out where he would have to walk across someone's lawn???
WOW! Great point
Right like it’s a recession and idc what anyone says, cops do not make “my whole family throws away their iPhone every year (without even trading it in-just straight up purchasing a brand new thousand dollar phone)” type money. Even the cops who are making the low 6 figures we saw… their salaries would’ve been a lot in a previous time but they all have like 65 kids who are all in sports and huge houses and multiple cars and they go out and travel and stuff. IMO they’re either in EXTREME debt, they’re involved in something sketchy, or they’re lying. The only other thing I can think of is if they game the phone companies by constantly adding new lines or changing providers, which is probably a reasonable possibility considering the shit they are involved with
Also BH got rid of his phone so these are all screenshots that he saved, which makes them unreliable evidence.
If I were a juror, I couldn't keep a poker face through this. So many inconsistencies with this all...
I now believe John confronted Higgins and they got into a fight. John died and they covered it up.
Me too. And inside where the dog was
Yup Brian Albert, Higgins and Collin plus Chloe. Then they and the women scrambled to cover it up
@kmoffett71 you make a valid point I never saw that
Yup! I don’t think they wanted him to die but rough him up and then threw him outside to kick him out of their little group. Then they realized he was dead and freaked the f out and the framing began
I'll bet most of John's blood was in the cellar.@@citigirlcountrified1927
I'm kind of new here, but Peter you are outstanding. I love your approach and humility. I love how you explain all the things. I have a life, but suddenly, I don't, because I can't look away from this train wreck of a trial.
All these cops do is drink and drive all over town like they are above the law and then want to arrest karen for drinking and driving even though no one said she was acting drunk . This case is infuriating
Karen seems to have initiated this hook up, she is in a relationship with John O’Keefe and is playing games. Brian Higgins definitely is interested in her but is being skeptical about where she’s coming from about what she wants from any kind of relationship she’s interested in. It doesn’t seem like he’s only interested in a physical relationship.
JO’s “friend” group consisted of a bunch of caddy women who wanted him and hated KR because she wasn’t one of them and this entire exchange was KR just trying to make JO jealous. Once JO saw the video of her kissing Higgins, she ghosted Higgins and they were back to good. 🤦🏻♀️ honestly it gave more motive to Higgins than KR
I think so too. I was thinking John did get jealous cuz Karen rubbed it in… he went to confront Higgins about it both wasted off their butts and boom fight John is knocked out. Doesn’t take long
Eh, how invested could he be over a few texts. Especially seemed like he was suspicious of her motivation. But whats up with the messy phone stuff.
I don’t think BH did the deed but I do think it gives the jury reasonable doubt to whether or not she did! Personally I think it was Colin and that’s why the Mcabes and the Albert’s are trying so hard to cover it up! I think everyone’s covering for this kid because of the family connection! 🤷🏻♀️ they’re all destroying their phones, deleting evidence, inserting themselves in the investigation, lying, claiming “I don’t recall” to every cross question, and showing up to court and acting like they’re so inconvenienced by this. I don’t think they even realize how bad they look! It’s incredible! Innocent people do not bring their attorneys to court, “just in case” when they are a states witness… and attorneys who know their clients are guilty of something, tell them to “plea the 5th, if you have to” while their clients testifying! I don’t know just my opinion but the fish is stinkier on the prosecutions side IMO 🤷🏻♀️😂
@@sarah29880the fighting Irish! And if booze is involved….watch out!
@@soniaf6156 He destroyed his phone after selecting what texts to preserve.
So are we thinking higgins was going to the after party to see Karen. Karen drops off John only - Higgins gets into it with john. Goes to leave, is drunk. Fights John. John goes down. They tell Higgins to flee and go to the station for an alibi.
That makes sense.
Higgins is so guilty! He has lied so much, drove drunk to the pd and got rid of evidence! Higgins should be a suspect! He's hiding so much!
I think KR is torn because she really liked/loved John, but the kids changed everything, which changed her feelings
Happens all the time when families are blended.
He had the kids before they started dating right?
@@CH-vm6cqduring
@@CH-vm6cqthey were dating and his sister passed away. That’s when he gained custody and they broke up.
This past relationship was a rekindle.
She also said that the whole sister‘s death and that situation changed him, which I am sure it did, but he needs help and he shouldn’t be pushing her away. He should be taking help from whom ever wants to be there and not be so critical. it is hard for someone to be an instant parent, when they never even had a baby let alone trying to include that into a relationship sounds very difficult
I was shocked today. I hadn't followed this case before it started. I like being a juror.
You funny
Me too. But I don't know how the tests hinder either Higgins nor KR.
I listen with EDB, then listen to your opinion, then listen to Runkle’s opinion. Love getting all three of y’all’s thoughts and views from three different types of attorneys.
Not to mention the prosecutor just dragggggging on. Omg !! … ‘what kind of donuts did you buy, did they have sprinkles, were the sprinkles gluten free, how did you know they were gluten free, did you tip? How much did you tip, was it in cash? ‘ OMG just stop!
lol, the common wealth is getting little evidence and any evidence is trampled by the rambling. Just get to the point
Who, if anyone sold you the donuts? How would describe the weather? What if anything did you see when you were leaving
He has to be doing it because he has so little to go on!?
Thanks for giving me a chuckle - I need it with this trial!
He did it on purpose to run down the clock on how long the defense was able to cross. He has done the same thing over and over with other witnesses
All these adults acting like teenagers!
Teenagers with guns and badges.
@@Katrina-qs2rl
Scary
Shameless
Drunk teenagers
That's what I was Thinking of!! Parking college stud partying I thier noisy dorm!
I’ll be honest. If I were on the jury…the fact that THIS court denied access to these witnesses phone and THIS prosecution are allowing curated evidence by witnesses when we KNOW some potentially incriminating data, or at least relevant data, was deleted from other people’s cell phones would make me side eye the entire court proceeding.
These guys were sticking their fingers all into the investigation and a close family friend led an investigation.
And I can’t help but think that if the state police had sought a Erich warrant for these same kind of phones in a different investigation the court either would have granted it or at least ordered the phone maintained until litigation was finished.
This guy is in deep! He knows exactly what happened to John!
The way Higgins is testifying like a cop giving a report and referring to her as the defendant serves to distance himself from the story.
Because he IS distant from the story. He is an excellent witness and making the defense attorney look like the clown he is…again. The story is that Read admitted to murdering John. Higgins isn’t even relevant.
@danielearnshaw2221 for a case that clearcut, it's sure taking the prosecution a long time to prove John was murdered by her car... I'm not interested in motive or the Alberts, I want to know how this poor man died and what must have happened that night according to the evidence
@@dreamtrance9892 It’s taking a long time because the prosecutor, knowing the defense theory, is simply putting all the persons on the stand that the defense is accusing of conspiring to murder. If not for this ludicrous theory of the defense, the trial would be brief. Karen Read admitted to hitting John multiple times. This is the way a good prosecutor does it, proving there is nothing to hide.
It sounds like he was drunk enough to have hit him when he left.
@@danielearnshaw2221 IMO his testimony also led me to the idea that maybe John confronted him about the ring camera stuff he saw and a fight might’ve broken out that night 🤷🏻♀️ I think his testimony is super relevant and distancing isn’t the way to clear himself of any involvement just like the rest
All the witness/officers involved in this case need to be regularly tested for alcohol intoxication. It’s scary the drinking & driving they did. Defense did a good job today exposing a possible motive for Higgins.
The whole department must be face palming as they watch this on tv, there’s gotta be natural consequences happening
Late rewatch crew here…..if you destroy your phone means something is on there that you do not want anyone to see, if I was on the jury that would be my opinion, especially anyone involved in the law profession.
Agreed. Especially when your on the LE and KNOW how important digital evidence is. He admitted he knew but his “friend” with the ATF had more experience.
“Law profession” is too generous a term. Now I know why the retired LE UA-cam creators call their career choice the “Industry.” When I hear the term “Industry” I associate it with s*x worker industry.
Higgins can’t hold any substantial conversation
with Albert in 22 seconds. But he can consult with his attorney about whether to plead the fifth in ten seconds outside the courtroom.
lol 🤣
Also he considers a 2-word text that got no response a convo of “substance”
That’s a fantastic point.
I timed myself reading the questions/answers the during BA testimony about that 22 second call… you can have a conversation for that long and get out a few sentences. What are they hiding?
@@Jscrogg0302 yeah there’s a lot you can communicate in 22 seconds. The pledge of allegiance, the happy birthday song, the whole twinkle twinkle little star song, the entire Jack-and-Jill nursery rhyme, I could go on. Bet BH, former military federal agent, doesn’t consider the pledge of allegiance to be not substance 🤣
Why would he plead the 5th? Over the use of a machine owned by the Feds that he used so he could supply law enforcement with all the texts, including the embarrassing ones, to law enforcement to help in the investigation of his friend’s death? What a horrible thing to do! Oh he should have pled the 5th. 🤣😂😅🙃🤣
I think the law students need to watch this Defense on this trial.
It is very common for people in law enforcement and government to drink and drive here. I live in Massachusetts.
Very shady that HIggins threw the phone away.
I agree. Fugitive aprehender 🧐 Ugh he has probably disturbed so many households doing that work and beat so many people up.
Destroying your phone is never the move. Plus isn’t everything in the cloud anyway??
There a lots of masacre in U.S because some people instead to defend the Law enforcement they agree with the criminals.Karen is a CollegeTeacher she should know that driving drunk is ilegal in this country,she should be arrested because she said that she did not remember what she did that night,she throught herself in the bus.
No it is not. He hated his phone. There was NO ORDER that he maintain his phone. He had every right to change phones and trash his old one. Without being asked, he had already turned over all relevant texts to law enforcement to help in the investigation of his friend’s murder. Shame on Jackson for being so cruel and economical with the truth.
When you are innocent it is not difficult to answer questions. Each witness has been defensive and elusive. When they can’t reshape the narrative they just say “I don’t recall” or “maybe.” Anyone who wants to determine reasonable doubt just has to wonder how does a simple party where nobody interacted with John get so difficult to explain? It should be so easy. This level of difficulty clearly indicates something went on in that house.
It's that punk Colin , a bad seed
So Higgins was also drinking… had a clunky plow on his jeep and left around the time John died. Perhaps he hit him on accident 🤷🏼♀️
Years ago SNL did a courtroom sketch with Eli Manning on the stand reviewing a series of immature and embarassing text exchanges. I used to think it was hilarious, but after today, I feel like the SNL writers came up really short.
BH was sus of Karen’s texts, but didn’t think getting rid of his phone was sus? My goodness.
The prosecution hasn't presented a case.
There is more evidence and forensics to come.
@@barbaramay1866 How many more weeks do we need to get to the first piece?
@@PhysicsGamer Getting through the witnesses has been a chore because Jackson spends a lot of time distorting the truth for the Jury.
@@barbaramay1866 How many times has Lally asked about that snowstorm?
I have to point out when I found out the CW put John’s niece and nephew on the witness list, it really pissed me off. Those poor kids have gone through so much in their short lives, and had the man who stepped in to raise them, ripped away from them. They aren’t witnesses to anything pertinent. The CW is making come into a court room, before a woman who they grew to care for, to answer questions about fighting. Arguing isn’t a motive in this case. Karen herself said John told her to take some time for herself if she couldn’t get over what happened. She didn’t need to get rid of him in any way in order to terminate their relationship. The fact that the judge allowed the texts between Karen and Higgins where she’s venting about the kids is just disgusting to me. I’m a mom of 8, I have 6 kids still at home. I talk to my husband and friends and vent about my kids constantly, it’s normal, I just don’t think the world, especially the kids, needed to hear that. I also want to point out - while these texts from Karen are flirtatious, I think it shows more of a motive for HIGGINS to want John out of the picture. She’s texting him pretty regularly, complaining about her relationship, he tells her she’s hot, she ends up ghosting him and then, after not hearing from her for a week, he sees her out, with John and they are happy, hugging, b ring affectionate. He knew he wasn’t going to have a shot with her because she wasn’t going to leave John. The only way he had a chance was if John couldn’t possibly be an option for her. I think it’s extremely suspicious that he didn’t send ANYTHING in response to her text on 1/29 when she said “John died”. That’s a huge red flag, one of many!
Bingo. 😊
The text messages ended up helping Karen. It proved she saw John and Sullivan making out, it proved she was frustrated with her relationship with John, but still said he was a good guy. I think it showed John was neglecting her emotionally and taking advantage of her. I think it showed Higgins was not such a good friend as he stated. What best friend wants to have sex with your girl behind his back. The text messages started out bad but Alan Jackson exposed the truth.
I agree completely. I think any parent on the jury would be like "parenting is HARD."
And we already have testimony that John would give her crap for spoiling the kids. She was TRYING and getting shit on for it anyway? Who wouldn't feel overwhelmed, stressed and angry when they're taking care of kids that aren't their own, watching them on NYE while your partner drinks and then you catch him in what you think is him feeling up another girl? I'd be SO pissed. But I don't think any of these texts show she wanted to kill him. I think Higgins was her way of testing to see if a dude would still want her.
@@amandamacabreYes! Glad that someone else sees this. I think that Karen was very upset and confused about her relationship with JO. She was feeling low and reached out to see whether another man would be attracted to her and/or interested in a relationship with her.
I think Karen killed or sent someone to killed John,sorry she did not love John,poor kids are sufferring with out their parents and uncle.
Your coverage is always educational and entertaining. Greatly appreciate your sharing your insight.
It sounds like KR was mad and used Highins as a distraction until she and John had made up.
I can’t even imagine what the family was thinking when those texts were read. Thank god they weren’t riddled with salacious acts.
I was thinking that. As painful as they were, at least they weren't worse,
If he had access to her phone could it be possible that she never sent them and hes fabricated them to make it look like she didn't have a good relationship with John?
Yes, they could have been a lot more salacious, I don’t think that Karen was really physically attracted to him, he started it first when he beeped at her while she was using a ww , 🙋♀️✨
I think it's possible for someone to love specific children and treat them well while also being overwhelmed. Karen said in the texts she didn't have kids for a reason. That's a valid feeling to have, and I'm not surprised she had a hard time coping with helping John take care of two traumatized teenagers.
I’m excited for Tuesday with what Jackson was about to say, but couldn’t finish the questioning
About Higgins, going to a military base and throwing his phone in one dumpster and the Sim card and another dumpster
On EDB's live stream they talked about Jackson can't be here Tuesday so another of KR lawyers will continue the cross.
@@helene_505
Oh really, I didn’t catch that part. Well I’m curious about Higgins disposing the phone and the military base and hopefully one of these lawyers brings that up
40:25 I like the way Brian seems to treat her in their convos though. Like the way he said “it does matter.”
This trial has me hooked… I love learning more about what their lives were like. Especially interactions like this where they are confiding to someone else about how they really feel
I agree. He didn’t want a flight, wanted a relationship. The texts make Karen look worse than BH
I think her struggling to be a mom to children that aren’t hers doesn’t make her a bad person. I’ve been there, it isn’t always easy to take on that responsibility. It’s a lot. These texts aren’t great for her in any light, but I don’t think it makes her a murderer.
I agree. And it feels horrible to say anything negative about JOK. From the sounds of it he was a wonderful person but that doesn’t mean he’s perfect. No one is. But it does sound like maybe he did treat her like a babysitter with benefits. He went out drinking while she’s with the kids. He would criticize decisions she made in regards to them. But then leave her with them and go get drunk. He very well may have been part of the reason she was struggling with feelings about them. They weren’t hers so she had no say but yet she shared responsibility for them. It’s a fine line sometimes with bonus parents stepping in and it’s not easy for the actual parent either to know how to navigate that. So to me. None of that conversation made me feel any differently regarding the subject matter of who killed him. Everything about those messages was completely human and understandable to me.
At the end, AJ asked if he threw his phone away on a military base and SIM card somewhere else. Sooooooo, I wonder if they have a video of that. It just seems so specific to ask!???
The federal investigation exposed this information.
He testified that he threw them away on the military base.
Tuesday will be wild.
@@Beth-h2r I can't wait it's getting spicy 🥵