medic’s mysterious physics breaking syringe
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- Опубліковано 15 сер 2023
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channel patreon --- / shounic
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[ todo list / current progress on upcoming videos / channel roadmap ]
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[ hud / crosshairs / hitsound / killsound / gfx cfg ]
Music: BananaSlug ( / user-426347780 )
big thanks to:
trigger_hurt for their contributions in research
"fred.wilson" for the bug report
FAQ:
Q: How did you make that? What editing software do you use?
A: I use Adobe Photoshop, Premiere Pro & After Effects. Photoshop for image editing and thumbnails. Premiere Pro for compositing and After Effects for motion graphics (the fancy animations). - Ігри
Clearly sliding syringes are the buff we all need
new battle medic meta?
battle medic rules once again
.
This will shift the comp meta and make the game unplayable for 5% of people
Make it happen valve
Valve has no need to fix these because only 4 people actually use the syringe gun
More crossbow variants waiting room.
Just tell people the truth that syringe gun is their cherished beta nailgun but instead of scout, on medic and they can experience its ..."riveting" gameplay live. Then it will be 14 people.
The Crusader's Crossbow is a crutch for poor medigun management.
@@Kacpa2 beta nailgun is so much more powerful. you can use it in tf2classic and while it's not scattergun-tier, it's waaaay better than the syringe gun
@@GreyMaria it ads an what in OW is an entire separate character's function to his super basic loadout. It's not a crutch it's an entirely new set of tools lol
Ricocheting syringes off of stickies to murder scoots? Truly we have reached the peak of medic gaming.
@@krowta2062😂
@@krowta2062ratio
MEDIC GAMING
Scoot jumps, he he...
Medic gaming
This is the agony of coding for long term projects. Unfinished code gets pushed, person who pushed it forgets about it, now you have some random proc years down the line acting up.
I pray for the tf2 devs, dealing with code that old and with so little maintenence is agony
Its one of the reasons why updates are slim, the people that worked on HL2’s code are long gone, the people that worked on TF2’s code are long gone, and even now the people that worked on TF2’s post-launch content are likely gone. You got the 4th generation of coders working with code from the first 3, each layer leaving behind a few bugs and unfinished areas.
I do maintenence in a not so old but super spaggethi Delphi code and... Everyday is pure agony because everything is so weirdly ugly to see and could be so much better with simply a object orientation (it's all procedural, and it's a BIIIG system)
And this, boys and girls, is why you should not procrastinate.
@@zombieranger3410 It was clear to me that we were several generations down when they had people playtest rd_asteroid. That game and map didn't fit the artstyle or playstyle of tf2 at all imo. This would have been understandable had it come from community folks, but not devs. Doomsday was a similar one, but it was something I felt the original devs could have made and not released in terms of how confusing the mode is. Halloween has always been wacky so I give them a pass on how it... evolved... over the years.
Cactus canyon was extremely normal in comparison, and seems more balanced than most new community payload maps like the venice one.
@@holidaypenguinrd_asteroid is exactly what I'd imagine a TF2 map taking place in space to look like. The location is obviously kinda weird but it was meant to be a wacky one off map. Gameplay wise it's a bit iffy but stylistically it fits perfectly into the game
Bigger question; does the Orange Box hitbox from the syringes come with Half-Life 2 and Portal?
I knew I wasn't the only one who thought of that, ha!
Well, it sure comes with Half-Life 2.
OH MY GOD, FUNNIEST MAN ALIVE
If it does come with HL, then all we need to prove it comes with portal is to somehow teleport the syringe.
teacher shounic gotta explain this one
Hearing Shounic say he doesn't know the cause of a bug had me reeling in shock. That's kinda like, his _thing._
Yeah but he's a tf2 youtuber not a half life 2 youtuber
It's likely as he said, unfinished code from trying to implement the crossbow's ricochet system into hitting other object entities
shounic: There is a bug in Team Fortress 2 that was inherited from Half Life 2
UA-cam: So this is a video about Portal, right?
i think shounic added it manually, if this is possible
@@O5MOno you dont add the game manually
ORANGE BOX MENTIONED
-UA-cam, probably
@@knyt0I've done it before.
UA-cam got it right now
Considering the interaction with the SLAM, it's possible that it was intended for crossbow bolts to be able to bounce off of them like walls, causing the SLAM to detonate but not mess with the bolt's trajectory, hence the 'if within 45 degrees just act like we're in the ground' check, but obviously that functionality never was finished, and a dev forgot to remove the check later on.
This also implies that stickybombs and pipe grenades were based off of the SLAM's code in some way as well, considering they're the only things that trigger the interaction...
Well the slam bombs function as remote bombs like what the stickys are (if you didn't stick them to a wall).
Would make sense, since we already know that stickybombs are just pipe grenades that can stick to walls, can be remotely detonated, and have a practically indefinite timer. Perhaps Valve did simply reuse the SLAM's code for Demo's weapons, with some adjustments like removing the tripmine functionality.
It would make sense, considering that the SLAM is just a stickybomb without the gun
It kind of makes sense why they'd reuse the code for tf2's stickies, but I think the crossbow's bolt function probably wasn't altered, it might ever since the game went into the public and all probably.
To add onto this, Valve probably didn't see much of a reason to fix the bug as SLAMs were cut from the final version of HL2 and are only usable in HL2 Deathmatch, where you're probably never gonna see somebody fire the crossbow at a SLAM under those exact circumstances.
New tech: medic syringe traps, based off sticky traps. Just shoot syringes in a wider angle at the stickybomb so the hitboxes spred out more. Imagine doing this like on turbines vents, and if 2 medics are spamming down the vents with the tech, any enemy coming through will fall over and die as if they got jumped by bugs.
New 6v6 meta?!???!!
Imagine teaming up with a demo to hold a checkpoint? But with opposite roles
The two people who use the syringe gun will enjoy this information
for a second i thought your name said "germanphobe"
Bruh
I will
it's mee!
ME!
Time to have 8 medics and a scottish resistance demo
well if theres 8 medics you only need a normal launcher - unless you want the demo to go off on his own
@@HueManatee It would be better for is someone managed to get past the line
wake up babe new Medic gimmick just dropped
The moment you said the code was based off HL2's Crossbow, I was already convinced that it had something to do with the bounce mechanic.
Man I love being more familiar with Valve games than with my family.
I was about to comment the same thing. Probably some interaction code so that they bounce properly off some surfaces
@@staringgasmask Ayy, happy to know you're a TF2 player too, comrade.
hl2 deathmatch has maps that specifically use the crossbow richochet to kill eneimeis around corners
"God please give me the good-at-maths autism"
"Your autism will allow you to know extremely niche interactions in Source games that will serves no purpose in life."
@@vivelespatat2670 Exactly bruh.
This reminds me of a check in Portal 1. In Portal 1, if you fire a portal at a prop_door_rotating, the game checks to see if the raycast will intersect with the bounding box of the door. If it does, it just deletes the portal projectile entirely. That's all. It doesn't do anything else, except draw a visualizer bounding box around the door if you have portal debug visualizers turned on. In escape_01, you can shoot portals at the rotating door on the other side of the rocket turret introduction. Doing so will make the projectile particle float in the air, and you can stack this until your game crashes.
Removing the code that does this makes portals work perfectly with prop_door_rotating. They behave exactly as expected and even use the door prop to calculate whether or not they can be shot. This code is utterly useless, breaks parts of the game, and can be removed with no downside, and no one really knows why it's there.
Someone forgot about it after they made a better solution for putting portals on doors
@@Aaa-vp6ug it's nothing either way, it literally just says (in essence) "if there's a rotating door bounding box, delete the projectile"
I remember encountering and recording the floating portal projectile glitch over a decade ago. It's neat to finally know what actually causes it.
Since you brought up the good ol' hl2dm slow xbow bolt glitch, why not try its followup too?
If you destroy the slam you placed, all the bolts currently travelling midair decide to drop down at the same time. The same would probably happen to the syringes too, but it would be cool to test out by exploding the sticky
so you're saying if syringes are launched with low enough horizontal velocity its possible to accumulate them in one spot and release it on someone unfortunate enough to stand below?
@@O5MO Probably very hard to do, since syringes don't seem to lose speed after hitting the sticky, but it would theoretically be possible
@@sunlight941 someone get on this asap i need to see it
@@sunlight941 Maybe if you give them such low horizontal velocity to make them incredibly slow (by standing almost on top of the sticky) and doing the glitch on the Turbine or 2fort balcony you can get someone who just so happens to walk below
@@fedethegreat88 The code did mention the angle's gonna be 45 degrees or less
Imagine if HL2 gets updated because of this.
While we're bugging Valve to fix the syringe gun again, can we also ask them to make the syringes use hitscan damage ramp (150%-50%) instead of projectile damage ramp (120%-50%)? There's no reason they should use the projectile damage ramp designed around rockets and stickies.
Projectile weapons always get shafted in Valve games.
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413
Rollers do
Could you imagine if they didn't have damage falloff?
Barely being inside the blast radius doing 100 would be terrible
typo, sorry@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413
Pretty sure it's intentional considering they wanted to avoid battle medics being a problem
It's insane how many videos like this you are able to make. A decade of spaghetti will do that to you I guess.
We're closer to 2 decades now
I wonder: if it only remove the vertical momentum of the syringe, could you unload an entire clip directly downwards into a sticky, and have a cluster of floating syringes sitting in one spot with little to no horizontal movement? Would that kill any class that touches it?
Also, we have reached the point in the source engine that bugs can now be inherited like genes in DNA. Truly, Valve has created the ultimate physics engine.
in the 2007/xbox version of the game, syringes can push teammates (typically engineers) to launch them out of bounds
TFC allowed snipers to shoot teammates and launch them, which was great with no friendly fire armor loss turned on.
Sending a friendly heavy or soldier to the enemy balcony in 2fort was classic thuggery.
This was even immortalized in a TF2Ware microgame. Everyone is turned into a Medic and must shoot syringes at the floor to propel themselves upwards.
its always funny how so many bugs can be fixed by just.. deleting the check that tries to fix the bug
I've been doing some battle medic recently and I was indeed suspicious of syringe attacks. The visuals and the damage never seemed to synch up at closer ranges. Now I know they don't synch at all.
The slowly sliding crossbow bolt is SO amusing to me and I don’t know why
same energy as the immortal snail
It's interesting that source also has a broken harpoon code from Half-Life 2. It once worked uniquely like sawblades do, however it was broken probably when updating the engine, fixing b-hopping and stuff
I now wonder if the same impaling mechanic is hidden in some other Source game
Huntsman TF2
If i had to guess, maybe they wanted the hl2 crossbow to be able to bounce off those specific objects but they didn't finish the code, and then that spaghetti transferred over to TF2?
The Syringe Gun's live syringes also use the exact same physics of the scrapped Nail Gun. Actually, the Syringe Gun is the final alternative to the Nail Gun, but for the Medic rather than the Scout.
Here's my guess:
It's a buggy exception case for the crossbow bolt/ syringes hitting projectiles. When hitting map geometry at that angle, the crossbow bolt always gets stuck. But i suspect a crossbow bolt getting stuck in say, a grenade, didn't make sense, so this exception was half-coded in, to ALWAYS deflect off of other projectiles. it was likely that this idea of projectiles colliding was eventually scrapped, but the prototype code was left in, accidentally.
Imagine having a line of stickies between a chokepoint or a door and then having 10 medics shooting at the stickies. I would love to see that
the syringe gun bounce exists??? Wow this is an absolute peak of medic gaming and we have entered the absolute peak.
The bounce mechanic of the crossbow blew my mind to learn about.
I wonder if it's one of those bugs that became a feature kind of deals.
Likely an intentional mechanic
The bounce is intentional, the colliding with slams probably not
My theory is that originally crossbow bolts were going to be launched if lodged into an explosive which then detonated, which would let players make a sort of spike trap basically. But that idea got scrapped and what remains is this unfinished code that would have eventually handled detecting when a bolt hit an explosive as opposed to a different surface.
Either that or they were going to be able to set off explosives (possibly launching the triggering bolt return-to-sender)
@@nlb137 That's another possibility, but I'm pretty sure that would be handled by code for the explosive, rather than the bolt
And since nobody cleaned it up the jank from the half life 2 days is still with us at 2033
"...and that's it, life goes on."
Is my answer to most problems in life.
my bet is at some point in hl2 development the crossbow was going to be able to interact with the mine (triggering it by shooting maybe?) so they started writing code to handle the interaction, but forgot to remove the horizontal velocity as well as the vertical velocity. the feature was then probably scrapped but they forgot to remove the vestigial code, and has been floating around ever since
"Thats why the important thing is the orange box"
-me after explaining to my parents why we don't need to fix our fridge in 2008
*3:02** Reailty is: Lost Mechanics & Forgotten Everythings... Thanks Shounic Showing This! god... we don't know about this since 15.5 years!*
Imagine actually teaming up with a demo to hold a chokepoint
Because I can't think of a better way for a medic and a demo to hold down a chokepoint
@@Pomodorosan the roles are reversed
Using SLAM to bounce bolts down the corridors sounds like a cool mechanic for HL2:Deathmatch, maybe that's what it was intended for?
2:12 AHHH THE SMELL OF HALF LIFE SPAGHETTI, MY FAVORITE DINNER DISH
I think I've done that crossbow bug before... it brings back very vague memories. I think I discovered it with my brother. Amazing that it would come back in such a way.
That scout got bit by a mosquito after medic shot that sticky
Man, I really love your Chanel
Theres actually is something in TF2 that does something like this, although it's not in any map I could think of. there's an brush entity called "func_water_analog" that, when rockets are fired at it will slide just like the syringes here. I don't know why maybe a leftover from goldsrc. just thought I'd share.
"That's why the important thing is the orange box" 🗣💯🔥
This reminds me of a similar glitch I found with the crossbow.
Bolts fired into an equipment item (weapon, ammo, health kit) will get stuck in the item. Picking up the item (by hand or grav gun) will make the bolts either continue in the same direction or fire straight down into the ground. The bolt will also sometimes jitter and move slowly.
The slow sliding glitch also seems to work with many of these equipment items.
This makes me think of if we can use this in an actual game, as it seems to work on friendly stickys, maybe make the floor full of invisible floating syringes.
2:19 "Generational spaghetti" is the best thing i've heard all day.
Really good production quality.
I'm almost certain this happens because of conflicting physics issues of the projectiles attempting to pin to the ground, but is colliding next to destructible entity that's already super close to the ground (sticky/slam)
yet idk if huntsman is also affected by this or not so eh
1:00 "that's why the important thing is the orange box"
I see what you did there.
the little music track edits are great
bro it just makes my day when shounic uploads a wacky weird tf2 mechanics video
thank you shounic i needed this
Gravity pulls things down, except for when it doesnt
I love this game in all its wonkyness. Thanks shounic for digging out all this entertaining tidbits!
Generational bugs you love to see it its almost like how a few people are lactose intolerant.
The hl2 plot twist was an absolute banger for today's bug
I'd love to see a test server where every class could have two secondaries, demo would be super strong
This must become an actual strategy on defense. Just imagine an endless stream of invisible needles slowly creeping through a choke point.
Syringe gun gaming
this is exactly like crossbow bolts on slams
New Medic meta, let's go!
This is peak Medic Gaming
Good news for the 5 people that use Default Syringe gun
I never even knew that crossbow bolts could skip...
"The important thing is the orange box" Well obviously! We wouldn't be here without it!
Get a demoman to put down like 8 stickies in a line, then have like 5 medics all shoot it in a row and create a floor of death.
you know shit gets serious when the conclusion to a shounic video is "i dont know"
In Gmod I've used the crossbows bounce mechanic along with a loop de loop made with brushes (I think they're called) and the crossbow would slide through the air as well for some reason.
1:00 Valve (2007)
The Orange box is important.
They really need to overhaul the syringe gun like they did the flame thrower.
they are fake purley visually. you will be surpised that the visual bullets that come out of hitscan weapons are fake and are delayed by a lot@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413
Every time I see stuff like this, I am starting to believe more and more that TF2 is a situation where Thousand Monkeys with typewriters accidently wrote a good sequel to works Shakespear.
man, i completely forgot about that crossbow bug. had a lot of fun just making slow moving bolts for people to casually run into.
Reminds me of all the weird stuff I've had to deal with trying to fix the Alien Swarm flamethrower.
Literally how did the devs miss this up...
Seeing GMod in a Shounic video hit me like a psychic attack.
Now I know the next time I see a f2p gibus medic hosing down a sticky, he's simply going for a sick trickshot
this ORANGE BOX.
i loved using the slam bug in hl2dm
now I wanna try doing this
This is my favorite Portal video.
I'm going to queue into casual and find at least 3 medics staring at a sticky on the ground trying to do this, the demoman will be using the pooped deck taunt nearby.
This reminds me of when you shot rockets at sandman balls like syringes, the rockets would slide across the ground or get stuck in place so soldiers could deploy mines effectively.
Now I want to see someone make a kill montage of people dying to a team of medics all shooting at stickies to fire clouds of invisible syringes across the map.
Ah yes my favorite dish: Source spaghetti
Oh boi. Time to see Delfy use this in an epic troll montage
I guess someone started working on that shallow angle bounce thing for hitting bombs, but never finished and forgot, and no one ever noticed this half code.
The fucking slow-moving syringe killing that scout tho
this so awesome
Oh im gonna have so much fun in casual this weekend
RIP Scout, died by broken toes once again
Now that you have touched generational spaghetti, I actually kind of want to see more shounic videos about other HL2 / general Source engine bugs now.
Sounds like a material for a new weapon
I love your content, any chance for you to do this with other games? (Im actually gonna double check if you have or havent)
If I had to assume, the interaction was MEANT for the Crossbow to bounce off of things, and it just so happened that the SLAM of all things had a busted interaction with them. Since we dont use the SLAM in games ASIDE from Gmod, and you'd normally never think to shoot the bolt AT a SLAM anyway, it just went unnoticed. And because Valve being Valve, they ported the code to TF2. I imagine while it's neat, it probably is a low priority bug, since it doesnt serve practical use.
1:02 THE ORANGE BOX
Shounic please cover the new catapult door on redone Steel.
I've done an hours worth of testing and this door just bewilders me. Sometimes using the exact same position, crosshair placement and speed you are launched across onto the ledge and other times you just fall to the ground. What is going on here???
It feels like utter diceroll, but surely there is an explanation.
*PFFFFFFF WHAT? How in the earth we are not see this Since Game Was Release?!*
Finding out why the Syringe Gun has felt so awful to use was the real benefit of this video. The part about the bug was just a bonus.
This is the moment medic lost his medical license
This explains some of the jankiness of them
All I could think about doing is getting 10 medics syringe guns and a demo to hold down a choke with invisible projectiles
after all these years