What I learned: .medic's needles are broken .Everyone has an extra pair of freakishly large dismembered arms that are completely invisible and are adjustable
".Everyone has an extra pair of freakishly large dismembered arms that are completely invisible and are adjustable" imagine if someone didn't know you were talking about tf2
When the game first came out, you could actually surf the needles, even same team. So you could have your medic shoot straight up and if you were really careful, you could jump onto the stream of needles and they would boost you into the air and you took no damage. This persisted for about the first year of the game.
You can actually guess at it and after some time get quite good, but you can't look at the viewmodel for reference. I used to have a lot of fun on crit servers with the blutsauger, I always just pointed the gun like 3 meters next to where the person I was shooting was going, also when you're a medic, people usually don't perceive you as such a threat and get cocky and lazy with their dodges. So it wasn't too hard to kill even a scout, especially when every needle did 30 dmg..
I'm reminded of Halo, where you can easily tell a player-controlled Spartan, ODST, or Elite from an AI one is that the player shoots bullets above his gun to fit the first person viewmodel.
The server is told you would like to shoot a rocket then it chooses yes or no Imagine firing your primary as soldier and just getting a giant piece of text on your screen saying(you have lost rocket privilege)
@@Ultra289 go play another game and spend exactly 10 minutes trying to find a free cheat software that bypasses their anti-cheat without getting a single virus now, do the same thing but try and find cheat software you need to pay for after that, play tf2, search up tf2 cheats free, spend exactly 25 seconds looking for free cheat that can bypass vac, and now you can dominate every single server you join
@@jockeyfield1954 you clearly dont understand the definition of easy to bypass Go ahead and tell me any online fps that doesnt have a cheating problem, you Wong find one
I also discovered this when trying to rebalance the syringe guns in the balance mod. Increasing the projectile speed increases the speed for everyone else except for the medic, as explained here, the medic firing the needles sees something else than the rest of the server.
So basically the server is actually tracking a series of syringes that all other players see, and the medic, the person firing the gun, gets these weird ghost syringes that may or may not correlate with the ones in the game world. Is that also true for spread?
This explains why I see extra arms on people from time to time, I guess the game isn't hiding their first person arm models from me due to tabbing out or something.
I really want to see a Heavy using their fists with their first person viewmodels visible in third person. Also, I'd imagine making them visible to other players would massively screw with Spy, right? You just see a Red Engineer with Blue Spy arms sticking out of them.
Your videos are so impressive! A behind-the-scenes video might be a cool idea, I'd be really interested in seeing how you animate, and discover all of these cool quirks of the game engine.
On v1.0.0.9 the needles where solid and we’re used for many out of bounds exploits involving the engineer. You could send teammates flying and even slow them down. Idk when they changed it but I think it’s interesting how much it allowed you to mess with physics lol
Thank you very much for the video, you really explained a lot of doubts I had about the arms model in first person and where the camera was positioned.
Actually, I think you can still sometimes catch a glimpse of people's viewmodel arms when they use certain weapons. I'm not sure what causes this, but it most notably happens on Engineers using the Gunslinger or Spies with the Sharp Dresser. It doesn't show up as normal, however. Their upper arm and sleeves glitch out and become conjoined with their actual third person arms. But the lighting on those glitch arms look very similar to the viewmodels, so I suspect that's what they are.
They'd be a lot bigger if that was the case, such as what is seen in the video. In actuality, the game is just failing to properly connect certain cosmetics to the skeleton when items with a unique third person animation are involved.
These technical analysis of TF2's inner workings are great. Sure they aren't absolutely in-depth as the documentation that Valve has but it gives a lot of insight on choices and techniques Valve used to make the game what it looks now.
In case anyone is wondering what the "real" weapon and arm positions would look like in first person (the opposite of what's shown in this video), there's a command for that. "cl_first_person_uses_world_model 1". You need to respawn for it to fully take effect. For first-person taunts, use "tf_taunt_first_person 1". To turn these off, replace 1 with 0. Some classes work better than others. Soldier's rocket launcher feels like a Fallout 4 viewmodel, but Pyro is pretty immersive.
Hmm, i was always put off by the syringes not spawning at the muzzel. I noticed unconsciously very early on in my TF2 playtime that that there was something off with how the syringe gun is shooting syringes.
The information in this video isn't very useful, but just imagine if actual schools taught like this. It's so enjoyable to watch. A quality video with a calm voice, explaining everything in detail with not too short, not too long pauses, aided with great and beautiful graphical representations of what is being explained. And then _a comedy_ at the end :D I love your channel so much Shounic
Has shounic ever done a video on why pyro takes so much damage from grenades that it reflects? I used to think it was simply like old bug where Pyro took mini crit damage from their own reflect rockets, but I was able to do 170 damage to myself with one grenade under a specific circumstance. This bug also does not happen with the Dragon's Fury. I think it would be a really cool mystery to uncover and of admittedly particular interest to me as a Pyro main lol
I never felt so at home watching all those delayed projectiles.
But the graphics aren't 16bits
@@Visigoths I've a good pc hehe
Bad PC moment been there still there
The life of the low ping soldier is a humble yet comfortable one, is it not?
russian tf2 player moment
What I learned:
.medic's needles are broken
.Everyone has an extra pair of freakishly large dismembered arms that are completely invisible and are adjustable
".Everyone has an extra pair of freakishly large dismembered arms that are completely invisible and are adjustable" imagine if someone didn't know you were talking about tf2
@@briandiehl9257 “to speed up you need to decapitate 4 people with the long sword it gave you”
#2 was a meme for a while. XD
syringes! get it right! lol
Now that second point just makes TF2 weapon viewmodels sound like JoJo stands or Elfen Lied Vectors.
I want in-world viewmodels as a halloween item now
same XDDDD
YEY
is it console command
@@handlesrtwitterdontbelivethem yes
@@subatomicpenetrationrapidfire I meant the opposite, the hands and guns that you see in first person to show up in third person
i just realized how huge guns are if viewmodels are also worldmodels
it's possible to play TF2 in VR using VorpX and yeah, unless you use third person models, the gun takes up a huge amount of your view.
@@TakeMeOffYourMailingList That's actually probably why the command exists, for VR.
"Heavy weapons guy"
When the game first came out, you could actually surf the needles, even same team. So you could have your medic shoot straight up and if you were really careful, you could jump onto the stream of needles and they would boost you into the air and you took no damage. This persisted for about the first year of the game.
Holy shit
Oh, THAT'S what the Needle Jump microgame was about in TF2Ware.
that sounds fun as fuck, damn i miss old source movement
This still doesn’t explain how to become shiny as the dentist
All I can say is that you need another dentist to help you
does anyone know how to become invisible as the lawyer?
How do I place machines as the builder?
How make tuxedo terrorist do funny crab dance?
How to double jump as doordash delivery driver?
God damn...
The older the game gets, the more it's clear the game is held together by glitter glue, gum and good intentions.
You’re right.
And a coconut
@@Dave-dr8oy that damn coconut jpg
The good ol duct tape tower that is the source engine, magnificent isn't it
And it somehow works
Somewhat works
It's playable
I am pretty sure that the biggest reason why this hasn't got fixed is a sane man never uses syringes as a weapon.
Luckily there aren’t enough insane people to convince Valve to fix it
Not with that attitude
My strange specialized killstreak syringe gun would like to have a conversation with you
wait why DO I have one of those?
Good Thing I Use Blutsauger
sad mvm noises :(
Shounic really trying to get that PHD in Tf2
I just felt like u needed a reply, seeing lots of likes but no replies, hurts me mentally
@@jesselukas55 respect bro
2:06 that's one of the most cursed things I've seen yet in this game.
ua-cam.com/video/lVv14ufITIM/v-deo.html
@@meem6227 CEASE, PLEASE CEASE.
@@meem6227 THIS VIDEO IS SO CURSED.
SLAKING GOT ME QUAKING.
@@meem6227 it's No Sleep
Its like their stand lmao
The GabeN voice line at the end was great
WORTH THE WEIGHT
Uhm uhm, uuuhhhh, Hacker
"mm heh heh hecker >:)"
Subtitles ✨
I think it was my favorite one yet
So THAT'S why it's impossible to aim the syringe gun
the only reason why
i always knew they were super delayed
And why someone dies 10 seconds after you started firing
You can actually guess at it and after some time get quite good, but you can't look at the viewmodel for reference. I used to have a lot of fun on crit servers with the blutsauger, I always just pointed the gun like 3 meters next to where the person I was shooting was going, also when you're a medic, people usually don't perceive you as such a threat and get cocky and lazy with their dodges. So it wasn't too hard to kill even a scout, especially when every needle did 30 dmg..
I always thought syringes just had insanely low travel speed
"Break bones, perspective, and anatomy if you must, these space lasers and swords need to FEEL real."
What's this quote from?
Video game design in a nutshell
I'm reminded of Halo, where you can easily tell a player-controlled Spartan, ODST, or Elite from an AI one is that the player shoots bullets above his gun to fit the first person viewmodel.
@@syweb2 I tried Google to no avail, I'm assuming Bottle Water made it up?
The server is told you would like to shoot a rocket then it chooses yes or no
Imagine firing your primary as soldier and just getting a giant piece of text on your screen saying(you have lost rocket privilege)
sudo fire rocket
@@technoguyx [sudo] password for technoguyx:
@@chopper6408 technoguyx is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
Why do all my rockets I shoot hit then am I THE CHOEEN ONE?!!
Actual future of the "cyber-army".
Real viewmodel scout can't hurt you, he isn't real.
*Real viewmodel scout:* 2:06
I fear no man, but that **thing**
Heh
Stand
@@stevecooper6578 comedy genius
biblically-accurate Scout
Lmao
Shounic is helping tf2 developers get sleep at night by answering why certain stupid things happen in this game
Tf2 developers???
I think he's one of the devs (joke)
You mean the plant?
6:00 Gaben after announcing a TF2 "update" and bot solutions a few days ago
Exactly, no need to get your hopes up :(
yeah won't believe them till i see it :P
Like every "cheating solution" every game company makes
They are easy to bypass
@@Ultra289 go play another game and spend exactly 10 minutes trying to find a free cheat software that bypasses their anti-cheat without getting a single virus
now, do the same thing but try and find cheat software you need to pay for
after that, play tf2, search up tf2 cheats free, spend exactly 25 seconds looking for free cheat that can bypass vac, and now you can dominate every single server you join
@@jockeyfield1954 you clearly dont understand the definition of easy to bypass
Go ahead and tell me any online fps that doesnt have a cheating problem, you Wong find one
People who use crusader crossbow: *I missed the part where that's my problem*
The medic has more than 1 primary?
@@ieuanhunt552 ...yeah? that's kinda the bigger selling points of the game
@@sheehan3204 my point is that the crusader crossbow is so good that I almost forgot that the medic could equip anything else.
@@ieuanhunt552 Jesus fuck I missed that joke completely lol
whoops that was rude im sorry
@@sheehan3204 it's not your fault jokes and sarcasm don't translate well into textual communication.
This might literally be someone's whole job at valve, not only are you finding these issues but proposing solutions to them. Great job man
Valve should absolutely hire Shounic
It's all fun and games until you have to tackle the coconut question.
@L B Not necessarily. Valve isn't your standard company, look up their employee handbook.
I also discovered this when trying to rebalance the syringe guns in the balance mod. Increasing the projectile speed increases the speed for everyone else except for the medic, as explained here, the medic firing the needles sees something else than the rest of the server.
the motion graphics make my day
The syringe gun may be the strangest weapon in TF2 when you learn how it works.
No wonder Medic lost his medical licence
@@shellyi 10 seconds ago wow
Medic seems the kind of guy telling everyone and everytime how he lost his medical license
how are you everywhere at once?
@@alimesutturan1313 34 minutes ago wow
That doesn't even make sense
Yeah, I noticed that in MvM after the round ends my needles would appear to come out from way lower than before. Cool vid.
So basically the server is actually tracking a series of syringes that all other players see, and the medic, the person firing the gun, gets these weird ghost syringes that may or may not correlate with the ones in the game world. Is that also true for spread?
wow, every TF2 character has a stand and its just their hands. neat
lmaooo
Could call it
A handstand
@@mothichorror446 fuck you xD
Basically every game characters have stands
So glad I wasn’t the only one who thought of that
*2:09*
STAND MASTER:『ZA SCOUT』
STAND NAME:『MR. SANDMAN』
jesus christ
This explains why I see extra arms on people from time to time, I guess the game isn't hiding their first person arm models from me due to tabbing out or something.
Ah. This explains a lot of the unpredictable things that always happened when I used any syringe gun as Medic.
I really want to see a Heavy using their fists with their first person viewmodels visible in third person.
Also, I'd imagine making them visible to other players would massively screw with Spy, right? You just see a Red Engineer with Blue Spy arms sticking out of them.
But make the viewmodel arms purple
Youre one of the few youtubers I enable notifications for. Love your vids bro.
Dude 3:30 minutes into the video and i realize “wait why am I watching this”
Your videos are so impressive! A behind-the-scenes video might be a cool idea, I'd be really interested in seeing how you animate, and discover all of these cool quirks of the game engine.
Gaben : *"I tricked you hacker"*
The bots : **proceed to Schadenfreude taunt*
you are everywhere
Seems like the mercenaries now have stands since the newest tf2 update, those stands can also use guns somehow...
ZA GUN
"yare yare daze" -heavy, probably
Reminds me of white snake firing a gun
6:00 tbh Gabe did kinda trick us during his latest interview
you'll tell me where I can find the full of your avatar else I'll curse you with depth perception
Did he though?
I want to know what that is since I'm out of the loop on the tf2 community
@@ahmed4363 He said that an update and a solution to the bot crisis were coming. I don't believe him tbh.
@@cache780 just search up black scottish cyclops i thinks its one of the first results
Lifeformed has some great music. I appreciate you using them for background tracks so much :)
On v1.0.0.9 the needles where solid and we’re used for many out of bounds exploits involving the engineer. You could send teammates flying and even slow them down. Idk when they changed it but I think it’s interesting how much it allowed you to mess with physics lol
gorgeous visuals as always, thanks shounic
I feel like this video was just an excuse to show the first person view models in third person and I couldn't be happier to see it.
5:03 how it feels trying to shoot someone with the syringe gun whenever they're more than a meter away
3:12 I AM ZE UBERMENSCH!
Wait, did Gaben just call me a hecker? That's it, I'm defecting to EGS.
Don’t you dare...
What in all of mother russia is EGS?
@@timur5241 epic game store
@@applesyrupgaming ok
The video model real POV thing is so insanely cool and interesting.
I love how the "your computer" icon is literally just a cheese grater
2:05
Is this why spies sometimes have a second set of arms rendering on top of their real ones?
Man I love these in depth analysis videos
2:08 wow ok seeing how big first person models are to third person models feel exceptionally cursed
This explains why the view model changes whenever spectating someone.
Thank you very much for the video, you really explained a lot of doubts I had about the arms model in first person and where the camera was positioned.
2:06 cursed
This video’s thumbnail is gonna take on a whole different meaning if Gaben’s tf2 update is just localization files
Your thumbnails are a work of art I love them so much
So I’ve been using a stand all these years?
join us as we dive into how tf2 works. it's very interesting
3rd person fov can't hurt you, it's not real
3rd person fov: 2:06
I don't think I can see first person models the same way again
BUT WHY THE FUCK IS THERE A VISUAL EFFECT INSTEAD OF THE REAL PROJECTILES IN THE FIRST PLACE. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Actually, I think you can still sometimes catch a glimpse of people's viewmodel arms when they use certain weapons. I'm not sure what causes this, but it most notably happens on Engineers using the Gunslinger or Spies with the Sharp Dresser. It doesn't show up as normal, however. Their upper arm and sleeves glitch out and become conjoined with their actual third person arms. But the lighting on those glitch arms look very similar to the viewmodels, so I suspect that's what they are.
They'd be a lot bigger if that was the case, such as what is seen in the video. In actuality, the game is just failing to properly connect certain cosmetics to the skeleton when items with a unique third person animation are involved.
"Come one paul i was hand hungry" -llama who has created war crimes
Thanks, now i can't unsee giant hands in first person
2:07 I wasn’t prepared!
*AAAAAAAA*
Even wilder: cosmetic syringes fire in an entirely separate position to the server when using *cl_first_person_uses_world_models 1*
1:01 This ping is mitigated slightly with the direct hit
Seeing the way view models work for the first time is extremely surreal
I love this series
so thats why you get the "squish" for no damage when you melee fight
In depth and well explained video. Keep it up!
The medic has UBER HANDS.
These technical analysis of TF2's inner workings are great. Sure they aren't absolutely in-depth as the documentation that Valve has but it gives a lot of insight on choices and techniques Valve used to make the game what it looks now.
2:07 scout discovers his stand power
In case anyone is wondering what the "real" weapon and arm positions would look like in first person (the opposite of what's shown in this video), there's a command for that. "cl_first_person_uses_world_model 1". You need to respawn for it to fully take effect. For first-person taunts, use "tf_taunt_first_person 1". To turn these off, replace 1 with 0.
Some classes work better than others. Soldier's rocket launcher feels like a Fallout 4 viewmodel, but Pyro is pretty immersive.
It's also a nice way of being able to see some of your cosmetics while in first person.
I'm pretty fascinated about these videos. I like to learn about how the game engine or the game handles stuff
Hmm, i was always put off by the syringes not spawning at the muzzel. I noticed unconsciously very early on in my TF2 playtime that that there was something off with how the syringe gun is shooting syringes.
tl;dr every class has a stand
0:50 This is actually a pretty great description of delay vs rollback netcode in fighting games
how have i never realised the minigun shooting effect and shit clipping through walls yoooo
also early gang
Ah yes logic
2:06 "I'm a freak of nature. If you were from where I was from you'd shit your pants"
it's actually a 72 hu long hitscan bullet isnt it
after 2 weeks in development, hopefully this video will have been worth the wait.
Love when you do these videos
I like this channel, it's the only one that gives a detailed autopsy of TF2 without anything awful and irrelevant.
The information in this video isn't very useful, but just imagine if actual schools taught like this. It's so enjoyable to watch. A quality video with a calm voice, explaining everything in detail with not too short, not too long pauses, aided with great and beautiful graphical representations of what is being explained.
And then _a comedy_ at the end :D
I love your channel so much Shounic
@@Marulauriu710 Well, maybe. I do stuff in Unity but I have never finished a proper game so maybe this _will_ be useful later.
seeing how viewmodels are rendered has forever changed how i see the game
This video is now history as of January 2023
I now understand why it feels like I’m shooting a smg with high ping when I use the syringe gun
You never fail to blow my mind
2:07 is so cursed
Not sure if the text geting cut off at 3:47 is a editing mistake or a great meta joke.
Unintended joke
4-armed scout is the stuff of nightmares
Has shounic ever done a video on why pyro takes so much damage from grenades that it reflects? I used to think it was simply like old bug where Pyro took mini crit damage from their own reflect rockets, but I was able to do 170 damage to myself with one grenade under a specific circumstance. This bug also does not happen with the Dragon's Fury. I think it would be a really cool mystery to uncover and of admittedly particular interest to me as a Pyro main lol
Neat video! Thanks for uploading!
02:16 sometimes you can see spies with viewmodels
What would happen if a class other than soldier or demo were to use The Half Zatoichi
Hey man I found your pronunciations in this video very good. Much much better pronunciations of "th" sounds. Thank you!
so the viewmodels are just the stands of the mercs that hold a gun for them
So that's why things mostly look normal when things are shifting between different planes of existence due to high ping
That partially explains why I never feel like any of my needles hit anything. The slow projectile speed doesn't help either of course.
This gives a lot of insight on how the online FPS can be made. There is a lot of experience, based of a series of trials and fails accumulated in TF2.