CZpersi yeah that is a very impressive homebrew port. But i like it more QuakeDC (Dreamcast port by titanium studios) and there comes with a Simpsons mod if you want to play some mods or specific wads like DOOM DC.
CZpersi me too. I'm argentinian so the PS1 and PS2 are the only "ultra popular" consoles at the time (also the most cheaper to buy in almost every shop when i had 8 and received a Sega genesis for my birthday) and in some occassions i heard about the Gamecube was on some supermarket on Buenos Aires and the Dreamcast was almost unknown in Argentina. DC always will had a place in my heart (my favorite console of all time) as well as the Saturn (which i prefer sometimes over the PSX/N64) and the Genesis and SNES. Sorry for my bad english haha.
I take offense to Exhumed being called a Doom clone, if anything the console version was basically Metroid Prime before it even existed. Lobotomy Studios deserves a lot more credit than what they got, they were great.
Ain't that the truth!It was so superior that It even saw a fan release of the console version on pc but was sadly immediately taken down.That version of Exhumed was so far from being a simple Doom clone when you get past that first linear level and then It slowly opens up to reveal a non-linear adventure with abilities that will need to be unlock to progress further.
Unfortunately, the PC version of it IS a Doom clone and gives it a bad rap. It's not like the console versions, it's made in the build engine if I recall and is a more straight forward FPS.
I played Quake on the Saturn with the 3D-stick pad that came out for Nights into Dreams. And it was an incredibly good gaming experience with that controller. Highly recommended if you wanna play Quake on the Saturn and wanna stand a chance.
I'm also kind of surprised that filtering was left on for capturing the footage of Quake 64. If there is anything that hasn't aged well about the N64, it is the native anti aliasing which does not look terribly good on modern displays. Luckily, the team behind Quake 64 allows option to turn this hardware feature on or off. With filtering turned off, Quake 64 looks soo much better on modern displays and capture equipment.
Project64 allows you to turn off the texture filtering in every N64 game. Just switch to the Glide64 plugin and select the "force point sampled" texture mode.
It's a shame you didn't have the 3D Controller for the Saturn version of the game. There was a cheat code to enable 'Jevons Controls', which made the analogue stick your look and mapped movement to the face buttons in a WASD formation and shoulder button to shoot. This control scheme was also featured in Duke Nukem 3D on the Saturn also.
Reviewing Quake Saturn without the 3d pad does it a great disservice. The addition of analogue triggers and movement changes the way the game plays. Completely different experience.
For modern controls on console there's a Argonaut Games game called Alien: Resurrection on the PS1. Pretty much set the scene for controller FPS going forward.
After playing Alien Resurrection on PS1, I gotta say it's really ambitious for not only a FPS on console, but also ambitious for a licensed video game.
I've seen other reviews complaining about the controls as well, such as Eurogamer and some idiot on Gamefaqs I think my only big complaint (so far) is how freaking hard the game is due to balance issues with the Xenomorphs. Ripley moves way too slow and there's no run command.
it was from this review gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps/196578-alien-resurrection/reviews/15226 "The biggest problem with Alien Resurrection is the control setup, which is so incredibly awful it boggles the mind. With the Dual Shock controller, the left analog stick is used for moving Ripley around, and the right stick is used for turning and aiming your weapon. That right there is enough to make the control a major headache; I simply don’t know why you can’t handle strafing with one pair of the trigger buttons as in many other PSX first-person shooters"
You forgot that the Saturn version added dynamic coloured lightning, making it look better than the PC original version (at the time of release). Also, the analog controller for the Saturn allowed for analog lookspring and the buttons for moving forward/back and strafe - basically the same controller scheme as Quake 3 on the Dreamcast.
I know this video is 5 years old so this might be a bit of out date but Exhumed is not a doom clone, it's one of the first examples of FPS metroidvania on its own legit 3D engine that merely in aesthetics resembles early Build and Doom engines but is anything but.
Speaking of Quake 2 PS1, I've convinced my friends and family to play the 4-player mode. It actually runs really well for its time, and is still quite playable today. I've even uploaded footage of some 4-player gameplay on UA-cam, so that's fun! Also, the best way to control the game without a mouse is to use the "Right Stick" controls. this makes the D-Pad move, and the Right Stick aim. firing is with one of the left shoulder buttons, but it's still very close to modern controls.
Quake on the Saturn has always fascinated me since I learned about it. I was oblivious to all these versions since I had a PC back then and probably couldn't contemplate playing quake without a mouse and a keyboard but the fact that Lobotomy were able to take that game, use their own engine - and I can't imagine how complicated that must have made things - and come out with something that ran so well on a Saturn and not end up too far from the real thing is impressive.
In terms of "unnecessary" multiplayer, there is Zelda: 4 Swords Adventure with 5 Gamecubes, 5 TVs, and 4 GBA-GameCube adapters. There is also Saturn Bombermans 8 player multiplayer and SNES Super Bomber 3,4, & 5 with 5 player multiplayer.
We didn't do that but i friend had to bring over a little black and white tv and his gamecube and GBAplayer when we wanted to play 4 player FF:Crystal Chronicles. to be honest we got pretty jealous at his set up, bigger screen and his hand didn't cramp after an hour of manic dungeon crawling action so we usually made him the goblet holder.
The Saturn did not have difficulty with 3D; developers had difficulty programming 3D for the Saturn. It had 2, asymetrical, GPU chips on top of the 2 identical CPU chips, and most developers didn't know how to use the 4 together effectively. The PS1 and N64 were more traditional (for the time,) designs (the 64 being the most powerful of the generation, save for the lack of storage space for game rom.) The PS1 really didn't have anything special going for it hardware wise, but was just powerful enough while being easy to develop for.
Saturn used a Dual 32-bit CPU. Developers due to Saturn's Documentation being incomplete, thought Saturn had 2 Separate CPUs, they often only programmed one Side, making the Saturn performance as if one hand was tied behind its back. Japanese Developers were taught to use BOTH sides and either VDP1 or VDP 2(SEGA preferred both). PS1 was underpowered for its time, it was just easier to program and drew polygons better than Saturn and N64, that's all.
Can't wait to see the episode on the N64 port of Quake 2. My friends and my brother's friends would play the crap out of that version of the game. It was also one of my first N64 games!
Its incredible to think they used a brand new engine to rebuild Quake (or build a Quake-like game) for the Saturn. The amount of money spent on that. OK modern game industry universal game enignes are a good thing. Quake II PS1 used a modified Quake 1 engine dont it? now thats clever
IIRC that was the N64 version. As for the PS1 I find conflicting sources either saying it is the Quake 2 engine, but others saying it's a new engine like the Saturn port of 1.
The Quake engine for the PC uses floating point base math which nether the Saturn or PlayStation can do. Both of them can only use integer base math. So the Quake engine was never going to run on those system unmodified. I'm sure Quake II on the PS1 was heavily modified to get it to run on it.
+Norbert Csorba +W. Durrsly Actually Quake 1 and Quake 2 are officially considered the same engine--they're both designated idtech 2. This designation comes from John Carmack. I guess its similar to how Heretic and Hexen had a lot of features Doom didn't have but were still considered to be using the Doom engine (Idtech1).
In Masters of Doom, though, it's stated that one of the major problems that befell Daikatana was they first built it for the Quake engine, Romero decided he needed the Quake 2 engine instead, everyone sat on their hands, and when they got the Quake 2 engine they found it was actually really different and they had to basically discard all the programming that had been done and start from scratch.
Love when people make videos about Quake Saturn (like Digital Foundry) Its truly a punching weight special. It should not exist. Lobotomy were programming gods. All 3 of their Saturn FPS ran and looked better than a Saturn should have been capable. Quake Saturn is actually grittier looking than the N64 port which I actually like a lot. And Derek, the 3D Nights pad is the ONLY way I play it. To me its much better. I probably breeze through the Saturn version once a year. It was also my final title I got for my Saturn back in Xmas of 1997. And for someone that didn't get a PC or N64 or PS1 yet, it was a dream just to have it (and the incredible Duke 3D Saturn port a couple months before)
Absolutely! It is the only way to play it. And with fully remappable controls the right shoulder trigger can be used to fire. You might not be able to look up and down while moving forward or backward but you can map the controls in a way that allows you to look up and down while strafing, should you ever be in a situation in the game where you find it useful.
The Saturn was on par with the N64 on paper graphics wise but dev's back then never coded on a system with 2 cpu's & 2 GPU's. Sounds like they actually putted effort on making a 3D FPS on It.
I love how you brought up the likes of Duke Nukem 3D several times in this video, yet you STILL haven't done a Punching Weight on the single greatest port of all time, Duke Nukem 3D for the SEGA Genesis.
As kids we used to crowd around one of those tiny bedside TV's everyone's parents used to have and play 4 player TDM for days on end on the ps1. It's still pretty mind boggling that the system only had 2mb of memory and 1mb of vram to juggle everything with.
I can confirm that Saturn Quake has support for analog control. But as expected, the Y axis is for walking forward and backward whereas the X axis is for turning. But the weird thing is that it actually doesn't make the game easier to control in analog mode and a lot of the time I end up switching back to D-pad mode every time I try to use my Saturn 3D controller due to there being basically no deadzone between the Y and X axis. In other words, it's hard to not accidentally turn while you're trying to walk straight or accidentally walk when you're just trying to turn.
I actualy played the 4 player deathmatch in Quake 2 for PS1 with a mouse. It was in a birthday party in late 2001 and a couple of my cousins brought what they had to help with the set up. We took turns with the mouse, because we had 2 of them, not 4. Since I was already playing Counter Strike in lan, I won several matches without even die when I got the mouse - latter, my cousins asked me to not use it anymore. Even so, I still had the upper hand and didn't lost any match because I loved that game. It was a night to remember.
To this day quake is still my favorite FPS of all time. I love everything about it. The atmosphere, weapons, NIN music and everything else. Just an epic game. I wish they would do an HD remake for the Xbox one.
as someone who grew up playing Quake 2 on the Playstation 1 with a 4 player multitap adapter, I can assure you it was some of the funnest fucking deathmatch I've ever experienced
Man, looking back at old control schemes is great! NOLF, for example, had Jump/Duck tied to the L1/L2 buttons (similar to the way Mirror's Edge did it way later, though significantly less crucial to have available at all times). Goldeneye/Perfect Dark had dual analog setups, if you had an extra controller to spare. And who could forget this gem from Gamesspot's Alien Resurrection review on PS1: "The game's control setup is its most terrifying element. The left analog stick moves you forward, back, and strafes right and left, while the right analog stick turns you and can be used to look up and down." THE HORROR!
Quake is an e ample of great design insomuch as it makes its pixelation work FOR it. It still looks great after all this time because of how gritty it looks.
Hey Derek, you've mentioned Turok a few times over the years and seeing as you are a huge Doom and Quake fan I would love to hear your take on the series. Every mention of Turok piques my interest in what you have to say, especially the attempt at a reboot of the series a few times with Evolution and then Turok (2008). Anyways, keep up the great work!
Great video as always guys, this is my favourite series you do. I love comparing different versions of media too. I wanted to suggest a video on Another World (or, Out of this World in America apparently). It's got a lot of different ports with some interesting differences and a great behind the scenes history. It's one of my favourite games so I hope to see it on here one day. Keep up the awesome work.
Nacho; that's so crazy, we didn't hear that at all during the edit! that song is very ambient so we turned it up a little louder that we normally do for background music. i wonder if it's that thing where you can't hear certain high pitches when you get older. we're really sorry it was too much for you! -da
One note for the N64 version if you haven't found it out yet is that you can change the control scheme to move/strafe using the four C buttons and look/aim with the analog stick. With this setup it becomes much easier to move, jump, and shoot at the same time.
One thing I love about Quake is how there's actually a resolution that's essentially 16:9 if you set it to 848x480, it'll completely fill a modern laptop even though you need MS-DOS emulator DOSBox to run it on modern machines.
Kinda surprised you didnt point out quake 64 was a straight port, unlike doom 64 which was a new game Tbh makes me wish quake 64 was a different game. I really liked the techno gothic shit from q1
I had a ton of fun playing Quake on the N64 with my brother. DID have to set up all the bindings manually though to simulate dual stick controls to make it even remotely playable.
my only experience with quake so far is a VR homebrew port on the oculus quest, and I implore you to check it out a some point because it is very punching weight in spirit, mainly from two factors of severe limit pushing. for one thing, your weapon is bound to one of your motion controllers, meaning you can aim around corners and above stairs in ways that were never intended, giving you an edge that doesn't quite counteract the fact that this is one of the most nauseating VR games I've ever played. I play a lot of them, I have good VR legs for this sorta thing, but you move so fast in quake and they didn't tone it down at all! absolutely worth a play
That "both sticks" scheme, where you strafe with the right stick and turn with the left one, is far from extraordinary. It goes back to the way controls were mapped by default in Goldeneye (not exactly a bad or little-known reference). Halo was the one that introduced today's standard scheme in an effort to be as accessible as possible. Many old-school FPS players like myself still love the old scheme, finding it less intuitive but more subtle, and its inclusion as an option never ceased to be a standard for console shooters. It's funny to see someone with as much gaming culture as you discover this old-school scheme, unaware that it's actually commonplace, and be all "omg it's incredible so awkward lol". Ha ha. You noob.
Fun fact: Quake had a real 16 : 9 aspect ratio mode in the original DOS version. Just select 848x480 in the options screen and DOSBox will have it fill the entire screen of a modern laptop. That impressed me considering when it came out. I'm not sure you could even buy widescreen monitors in the nineties.
First thing I did when I put custom firmware on my PSP was install the homebrew quake 1 port for it. Runs beautifully, and surprisingly controllable on the psp =)
It's pretty impressive to me that they managed to port Doom3 and Half Life 2 to Xbox. With dedication, a clever and talented porter can do some amazing things.
2:00 The game is technically spoken really building the level. To save cartridge space, instead of saving lightmaps on there, they get compiled at load time.
Also, I dare say that, without the creation and use of the PlayStation Performance Analyzer, Hammerhead Studios wouldn't have had shot in hell of porting Quake 2 to the PlayStation. There a were roughly five attempts made by various studios to port the first Quake to the PS1, all of which failed.
Lobotomy ported their own code from Saturn to Playstation and got it running at 60fps with frequent frame dips out of the box. They couldn't find anyone to release the game though, and they went under soon afterwards.
The d-pad on the Saturn was basically a floating analog stick, Sega should have beat everyone else to the market with a Saturn controller that had two D-pads and four shoulder buttons for emulating PC controls in shooting games. Would have been rad.
This video made me think Quake II was console exclusive to the PS1 but it turns out it was on N64 too. I would’ve loved to see that version being featured here too.
Why are there basically no games that support controller and mouse in tandem? You'd think that someone would try it now that controller support on PC is a thing! It would be perfect for something like GTA, where driving is best done with a stick, and shooting with the mouse
Controller and mouse was basically how I played TF2 - even though I never played Quake II myself, it's a pretty easy control scheme to get used to: you get the slipperyness of the analog stick over WASD, _and_ the smooth freelook of the mouse over a second analog stick.
I call BS. Absolute majority of games with controller support allow you to use it and your mouse simultaneously (which makes Steam Controller works wonders for shooters and such in living room - combining analog movement with precise aiming and couch gaming).
Best part of the N64 Quake is that it lets you turn off the mud filter the N64 puts over all of its games and tries to pass off as anti-aliasing. More games on the system needed to have that option, especially ones with complex dark and/or mechanical looking textures and those with pre-rendered backgrounds. Games like Mario 64 and Starfox 64 mostly made it out unscathed, and games like Majora's Mask and Banjo Kazooie definitely came out worse for wear, but not enough to really hamper them too much. Games like Resident Evil 2, Perfect Dark, and Donkey Kong 64 though? They really suffered from the filter visually at times. They could've majorly benefited from turning it off, which apparently slightly improves performance to boot. Only by a frame or two but still, Perfect Dark and DK64 needed every last frame they could've gotten.
With 4MB of RAM I doubt it was doing much. Probably just poorly optimized so it had to do some work setting up the ROM access and finding all the entities in the map to be placed in RAM.
I used to have a T1 line in my house in the 90s just so I could play Quake. That was back when you could only get those for businesses, it cost me a fortune and they had to tear up the whole street. I had to stop though because I got too obsessed with it. Jamie pull that up..
Awesome vid! I always wanted Quake on the Saturn but I ended up with Quake 2 on the PS1 and then Quake 3 on the Dreamcast then PS2 (didnt have pc at the time). Was really excited and got Quake 4 for the 360 when it came out and eventually Quake Wars. I like them all but everyone tells me I should've played them on PC. XD Anyway, I'm looking forward for this new game, pretty high expectations this time though.
The Saturn is very 3d capable. It's harder to program for, and while lobotomy did well for the time, people have figured out how to better optimize 3d on the system. Saturn's life was cut short, so we never got the full capabilities of the system back in it's day.
Dune 2000 on the PS1 allowed you to use both the Playstation mouse and the link cable, plus unlike the PC version it used 3D models. If you ever come across it it'd be another example of an upgraded port with support for obscure accessories.
The discussion below made me think of something else, Derek: You said in the past that you thought Doom II's Arch-Vile and Revenant monsters were utterly ridiculous--"there's challenging, then there's insane" IIRC--so then, what must you have thought of Quake's Vores (basically the Revenant except the homing shots CAN FOLLOW YOU AROUND CORNERS) and the Shamber (basically the Arch-Vile but without the dead-resurrecting ability, but their lightning attack works almost exactly like Archvile's fire)?
I recently got my hands on a 3D Control Pad and "Quake" for the Saturn. While you do have to put in a code to enable analog mode, while it takes some time to get used to moving and aiming (you go forward and back with B and Z buttons while strafing is Y and C), it does become second nature once you get the hang of things. I actually can't play it with the normal control scheme now. XD
I loved ps1 quake 2 back in the day. I remember playing through the whole game with mouse and controller and loving every second. I even had the pc version at the time but there was something amazing about paying it on a ps1. Also had a multi tap and played countless hours of 3 or 4 player deathmatch and ctf.
![Duke Nukem 3D N64 vs PS1 vs Saturn | Punching Weight [SSFF]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1Zv0YC5nkmA/mqdefault.jpg)
Nightdive has given Quake the Doom 64 treatment. Probably about time to update this video!
Quake 64 on Quake on Nintendo Ultra Switch
I plan on picking up the Switch version tomorrow (8/20/2021).
Can't wait, the new re-release is fantastic, it even lets you play quake 64 complete with the soundtrack through the addons menu!
I just wish the re-release didn't change Nightmare :(
@@jario9 I just wish it didn’t have a crt filter, or had an option to to get rid of it.
"IT'S SO DUMB I WANT IT" I may never have peered as deeply into another man's soul.
It's freaking great, LMFAO!
@@punkydudester3 I don't think we'll ever see this split screen type again....
he's a simple man who respects the art of programming, and it's beautiful
Honorable mention: QuakeDS - An unofficial, hombrew port of Quake engine to NDS that is actually quite good.
CZpersi yeah that is a very impressive homebrew port. But i like it more QuakeDC (Dreamcast port by titanium studios) and there comes with a Simpsons mod if you want to play some mods or specific wads like DOOM DC.
CZpersi Yeah i have tried it and its pretty good, but it doesn't save data.
The one, I tried about half a year ago did support gamesaves, if I remember it correctly.
@Fabricio: Sadly, I never had a Dreamcast. I always wanted one, but they were quite rare in my region.
CZpersi me too. I'm argentinian so the PS1 and PS2 are the only "ultra popular" consoles at the time (also the most cheaper to buy in almost every shop when i had 8 and received a Sega genesis for my birthday) and in some occassions i heard about the Gamecube was on some supermarket on Buenos Aires and the Dreamcast was almost unknown in Argentina. DC always will had a place in my heart (my favorite console of all time) as well as the Saturn (which i prefer sometimes over the PSX/N64) and the Genesis and SNES. Sorry for my bad english haha.
I take offense to Exhumed being called a Doom clone, if anything the console version was basically Metroid Prime before it even existed. Lobotomy Studios deserves a lot more credit than what they got, they were great.
Ain't that the truth!It was so superior that It even saw a fan release of the console version on pc but was sadly immediately taken down.That version of Exhumed was so far from being a simple Doom clone when you get past that first linear level and then It slowly opens up to reveal a non-linear adventure with abilities that will need to be unlock to progress further.
EVERYTHING was a doom clone back then. that was the name of the genre. fps only came out a bit later.
Unfortunately, the PC version of it IS a Doom clone and gives it a bad rap. It's not like the console versions, it's made in the build engine if I recall and is a more straight forward FPS.
I really desire a remake of that or at least some way to play with mouse and keyboard
Yeah what GraveUypo said, Doom Clone was the name of the FPS genre before it got its real name.
I played Quake on the Saturn with the 3D-stick pad that came out for Nights into Dreams. And it was an incredibly good gaming experience with that controller. Highly recommended if you wanna play Quake on the Saturn and wanna stand a chance.
@Gilgamesh how do you enable the crosshair?
I'm also kind of surprised that filtering was left on for capturing the footage of Quake 64. If there is anything that hasn't aged well about the N64, it is the native anti aliasing which does not look terribly good on modern displays. Luckily, the team behind Quake 64 allows option to turn this hardware feature on or off. With filtering turned off, Quake 64 looks soo much better on modern displays and capture equipment.
Project64 allows you to turn off the texture filtering in every N64 game. Just switch to the Glide64 plugin and select the "force point sampled" texture mode.
@@linkthehero8431 I was referring to playing these games on actual hardware.
@Andrew Elie Right, I agree.
"8 PLAYER SPLIT SCREEN OH MY GOD IT'S SO DUMB I WANT IT" earned you a subscriber. Holy shit I laughed so hard
It's a shame you didn't have the 3D Controller for the Saturn version of the game. There was a cheat code to enable 'Jevons Controls', which made the analogue stick your look and mapped movement to the face buttons in a WASD formation and shoulder button to shoot. This control scheme was also featured in Duke Nukem 3D on the Saturn also.
Lobotomy Software, did for Sega Saturn, what Rare Software did for N64, they were for sure one of the best developer of the 90's ❤
you mean like dreamcast fps? interesting
Reviewing Quake Saturn without the 3d pad does it a great disservice. The addition of analogue triggers and movement changes the way the game plays. Completely different experience.
For modern controls on console there's a Argonaut Games game called Alien: Resurrection on the PS1. Pretty much set the scene for controller FPS going forward.
and nearly a year before Halo (eat that, Halo fanboys)
After playing Alien Resurrection on PS1, I gotta say it's really ambitious for not only a FPS on console, but also ambitious for a licensed video game.
Harry Warburg Yeah, Gamespot. Their review of Alien Ressurection is so hillarious in hindsight!
I've seen other reviews complaining about the controls as well, such as Eurogamer and some idiot on Gamefaqs
I think my only big complaint (so far) is how freaking hard the game is due to balance issues with the Xenomorphs. Ripley moves way too slow and there's no run command.
it was from this review
gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps/196578-alien-resurrection/reviews/15226
"The biggest problem with Alien Resurrection is the control setup, which is so incredibly awful it boggles the mind. With the Dual Shock controller, the left analog stick is used for moving Ripley around, and the right stick is used for turning and aiming your weapon. That right there is enough to make the control a major headache; I simply don’t know why you can’t handle strafing with one pair of the trigger buttons as in many other PSX first-person shooters"
You forgot that the Saturn version added dynamic coloured lightning, making it look better than the PC original version (at the time of release). Also, the analog controller for the Saturn allowed for analog lookspring and the buttons for moving forward/back and strafe - basically the same controller scheme as Quake 3 on the Dreamcast.
I know this video is 5 years old so this might be a bit of out date but Exhumed is not a doom clone, it's one of the first examples of FPS metroidvania on its own legit 3D engine that merely in aesthetics resembles early Build and Doom engines but is anything but.
Speaking of Quake 2 PS1, I've convinced my friends and family to play the 4-player mode. It actually runs really well for its time, and is still quite playable today. I've even uploaded footage of some 4-player gameplay on UA-cam, so that's fun!
Also, the best way to control the game without a mouse is to use the "Right Stick" controls. this makes the D-Pad move, and the Right Stick aim. firing is with one of the left shoulder buttons, but it's still very close to modern controls.
Quake on the Saturn has always fascinated me since I learned about it. I was oblivious to all these versions since I had a PC back then and probably couldn't contemplate playing quake without a mouse and a keyboard but the fact that Lobotomy were able to take that game, use their own engine - and I can't imagine how complicated that must have made things - and come out with something that ran so well on a Saturn and not end up too far from the real thing is impressive.
In terms of "unnecessary" multiplayer, there is Zelda: 4 Swords Adventure with 5 Gamecubes, 5 TVs, and 4 GBA-GameCube adapters.
There is also Saturn Bombermans 8 player multiplayer and SNES Super Bomber 3,4, & 5 with 5 player multiplayer.
Woah, its not THAT bad, you "only" needed one gamecube, one tv, 4 gba and 4 Gamecube-gba adapter to play 4 sword adventure
That's a bit excessive and unnecessary. You only need 1 TV, 1 GCN, 4 GBAs, and 4 GBA to GCN link cables for the complete multiplayer experience.
We didn't do that but i friend had to bring over a little black and white tv and his gamecube and GBAplayer when we wanted to play 4 player FF:Crystal Chronicles. to be honest we got pretty jealous at his set up, bigger screen and his hand didn't cramp after an hour of manic dungeon crawling action so we usually made him the goblet holder.
What about Wavebirds having 16 channels because you could 8 connect GameCubes together to play each in a different TV with 16 different controllers.
Saturn Bomberman had 10 player multiplayer.
The Saturn did not have difficulty with 3D; developers had difficulty programming 3D for the Saturn. It had 2, asymetrical, GPU chips on top of the 2 identical CPU chips, and most developers didn't know how to use the 4 together effectively. The PS1 and N64 were more traditional (for the time,) designs (the 64 being the most powerful of the generation, save for the lack of storage space for game rom.) The PS1 really didn't have anything special going for it hardware wise, but was just powerful enough while being easy to develop for.
Saturn used a Dual 32-bit CPU. Developers due to Saturn's Documentation being incomplete, thought Saturn had 2 Separate CPUs, they often only programmed one Side, making the Saturn performance as if one hand was tied behind its back.
Japanese Developers were taught to use BOTH sides and either VDP1 or VDP 2(SEGA preferred both).
PS1 was underpowered for its time, it was just easier to program and drew polygons better than Saturn and N64, that's all.
Quake II for the PSX wuz the shit!
'member countless hours of 4 player deathmatch and capture the flag, it was so smooth and tight!
Can't wait to see the episode on the N64 port of Quake 2. My friends and my brother's friends would play the crap out of that version of the game. It was also one of my first N64 games!
Great solid port and visuals are cool
Its incredible to think they used a brand new engine to rebuild Quake (or build a Quake-like game) for the Saturn. The amount of money spent on that. OK modern game industry universal game enignes are a good thing. Quake II PS1 used a modified Quake 1 engine dont it? now thats clever
IIRC that was the N64 version. As for the PS1 I find conflicting sources either saying it is the Quake 2 engine, but others saying it's a new engine like the Saturn port of 1.
The Quake engine for the PC uses floating point base math which nether the Saturn or PlayStation can do. Both of them can only use integer base math. So the Quake engine was never going to run on those system unmodified. I'm sure Quake II on the PS1 was heavily modified to get it to run on it.
+Norbert Csorba +W. Durrsly Actually Quake 1 and Quake 2 are officially considered the same engine--they're both designated idtech 2. This designation comes from John Carmack.
I guess its similar to how Heretic and Hexen had a lot of features Doom didn't have but were still considered to be using the Doom engine (Idtech1).
Quake 2 PS1 uses hammerhead's own engine from what I recall.
They also goofed around with Half Life on that engine as well.
In Masters of Doom, though, it's stated that one of the major problems that befell Daikatana was they first built it for the Quake engine, Romero decided he needed the Quake 2 engine instead, everyone sat on their hands, and when they got the Quake 2 engine they found it was actually really different and they had to basically discard all the programming that had been done and start from scratch.
What an awesome comparison video! Loved it. Keep up!
Got an awesome surf session in, got a strawberry shake and tacos, and a new SSFF video is up. Truly a good day
Love when people make videos about Quake Saturn (like Digital Foundry) Its truly a punching weight special. It should not exist. Lobotomy were programming gods. All 3 of their Saturn FPS ran and looked better than a Saturn should have been capable. Quake Saturn is actually grittier looking than the N64 port which I actually like a lot. And Derek, the 3D Nights pad is the ONLY way I play it. To me its much better. I probably breeze through the Saturn version once a year. It was also my final title I got for my Saturn back in Xmas of 1997. And for someone that didn't get a PC or N64 or PS1 yet, it was a dream just to have it (and the incredible Duke 3D Saturn port a couple months before)
I agree with you wholeheartedly. The only way to play Saturn Quake is with the 3D pad.
The Saturn version of Quake doesn't use the slave processor nor the system's Geometry DSP. It doesn't even make use of the Motorola 68000 for sound.
I wish they had ported Doom to the Saturn. It would have been the best by far and could have bordered on PC perfect.
Absolutely! It is the only way to play it. And with fully remappable controls the right shoulder trigger can be used to fire. You might not be able to look up and down while moving forward or backward but you can map the controls in a way that allows you to look up and down while strafing, should you ever be in a situation in the game where you find it useful.
The Saturn was on par with the N64 on paper graphics wise but dev's back then never coded on a system with 2 cpu's & 2 GPU's. Sounds like they actually putted effort on making a 3D FPS on It.
I love how you brought up the likes of Duke Nukem 3D several times in this video, yet you STILL haven't done a Punching Weight on the single greatest port of all time, Duke Nukem 3D for the SEGA Genesis.
As kids we used to crowd around one of those tiny bedside TV's everyone's parents used to have and play 4 player TDM for days on end on the ps1. It's still pretty mind boggling that the system only had 2mb of memory and 1mb of vram to juggle everything with.
"EIGHT PLAYER SPLIT SCREEN?! OHMIGAWD I WANT IT!"
lmao
I just got the cutest mental image in my head ever.
A group of Mice playing Playstation OMG SO CUUUTE!
What other treasures could SSFF be hiding in that storage unit across the state? This lore goes deep.
So happy this came through my subscription box today. Well done as always my friend!
Ah this will be good. I QA tested a few of these ports when i worked at GT Interactive back in the day :)
I can confirm that Saturn Quake has support for analog control. But as expected, the Y axis is for walking forward and backward whereas the X axis is for turning. But the weird thing is that it actually doesn't make the game easier to control in analog mode and a lot of the time I end up switching back to D-pad mode every time I try to use my Saturn 3D controller due to there being basically no deadzone between the Y and X axis. In other words, it's hard to not accidentally turn while you're trying to walk straight or accidentally walk when you're just trying to turn.
This and the DF Retro episode are amazing.
Holy crap! A new video! Been waiting for this for a while!!
Another great video Derek, can't wait to see how that 4 player deathmatch goes.
I love that you spread the word on this awesome quake2 feature, remember there are more ps1 games that use the mouse controller combo.
I actualy played the 4 player deathmatch in Quake 2 for PS1 with a mouse. It was in a birthday party in late 2001 and a couple of my cousins brought what they had to help with the set up. We took turns with the mouse, because we had 2 of them, not 4. Since I was already playing Counter Strike in lan, I won several matches without even die when I got the mouse - latter, my cousins asked me to not use it anymore.
Even so, I still had the upper hand and didn't lost any match because I loved that game. It was a night to remember.
To this day quake is still my favorite FPS of all time. I love everything about it. The atmosphere, weapons, NIN music and everything else. Just an epic game. I wish they would do an HD remake for the Xbox one.
as someone who grew up playing Quake 2 on the Playstation 1 with a 4 player multitap adapter, I can assure you it was some of the funnest fucking deathmatch I've ever experienced
Man, looking back at old control schemes is great! NOLF, for example, had Jump/Duck tied to the L1/L2 buttons (similar to the way Mirror's Edge did it way later, though significantly less crucial to have available at all times). Goldeneye/Perfect Dark had dual analog setups, if you had an extra controller to spare. And who could forget this gem from Gamesspot's Alien Resurrection review on PS1:
"The game's control setup is its most terrifying element. The left analog stick moves you forward, back, and strafes right and left, while the right analog stick turns you and can be used to look up and down."
THE HORROR!
Quake is an e ample of great design insomuch as it makes its pixelation work FOR it. It still looks great after all this time because of how gritty it looks.
Quake Saturn is great, it also supported analog controller.
Hey Derek, you've mentioned Turok a few times over the years and seeing as you are a huge Doom and Quake fan I would love to hear your take on the series. Every mention of Turok piques my interest in what you have to say, especially the attempt at a reboot of the series a few times with Evolution and then Turok (2008). Anyways, keep up the great work!
Hagan Gatsu I would love to see him cover the GBA version of evolution, which I remember being Contra like.
Great video as always guys, this is my favourite series you do. I love comparing different versions of media too.
I wanted to suggest a video on Another World (or, Out of this World in America apparently). It's got a lot of different ports with some interesting differences and a great behind the scenes history. It's one of my favourite games so I hope to see it on here one day.
Keep up the awesome work.
Now on the Switch, PS4/5 and Xbox One/Series
5:32 that high pitch sound is really annoying x_x
Nacho Thought I was going insane
Oof. Makes the video unwatchable for me until it goes away later into it...
Yeah! I had to skip a big part of the video because of it :c
yeah, it's not great. I think it's part of the soundtrack? If so, bad choice on SSFF. Great video otherwise.
Nacho; that's so crazy, we didn't hear that at all during the edit! that song is very ambient so we turned it up a little louder that we normally do for background music. i wonder if it's that thing where you can't hear certain high pitches when you get older. we're really sorry it was too much for you! -da
Nooo why such a short video? I wanted to watch some quake 2 on N64!
One note for the N64 version if you haven't found it out yet is that you can change the control scheme to move/strafe using the four C buttons and look/aim with the analog stick. With this setup it becomes much easier to move, jump, and shoot at the same time.
One thing I love about Quake is how there's actually a resolution that's essentially 16:9 if you set it to 848x480, it'll completely fill a modern laptop even though you need MS-DOS emulator DOSBox to run it on modern machines.
Kinda surprised you didnt point out quake 64 was a straight port, unlike doom 64 which was a new game
Tbh makes me wish quake 64 was a different game. I really liked the techno gothic shit from q1
Quake 2 got a remaster too 🎉
I had a ton of fun playing Quake on the N64 with my brother. DID have to set up all the bindings manually though to simulate dual stick controls to make it even remotely playable.
That winged emblem at 1:04 on the left side of the screen *has* to have been inspired by the crest of the Royal Family of Hyrule 🤣
Awesome Video, Subbed and Liked. I Love your channel!
Remember how Quake 4 included a bonus disc that had Quake 2 on it?
I didn't realize how awesome Quake looked on the 64. Very impressed.
my only experience with quake so far is a VR homebrew port on the oculus quest, and I implore you to check it out a some point because it is very punching weight in spirit, mainly from two factors of severe limit pushing. for one thing, your weapon is bound to one of your motion controllers, meaning you can aim around corners and above stairs in ways that were never intended, giving you an edge that doesn't quite counteract the fact that this is one of the most nauseating VR games I've ever played. I play a lot of them, I have good VR legs for this sorta thing, but you move so fast in quake and they didn't tone it down at all! absolutely worth a play
The Saturn was not bad at 3D graphics, people were bad at programming for the architecture and Sega was bad at supporting devs.
Correct.
That "both sticks" scheme, where you strafe with the right stick and turn with the left one, is far from extraordinary. It goes back to the way controls were mapped by default in Goldeneye (not exactly a bad or little-known reference). Halo was the one that introduced today's standard scheme in an effort to be as accessible as possible. Many old-school FPS players like myself still love the old scheme, finding it less intuitive but more subtle, and its inclusion as an option never ceased to be a standard for console shooters.
It's funny to see someone with as much gaming culture as you discover this old-school scheme, unaware that it's actually commonplace, and be all "omg it's incredible so awkward lol".
Ha ha. You noob.
Fun fact: Quake had a real 16 : 9 aspect ratio mode in the original DOS version. Just select 848x480 in the options screen and DOSBox will have it fill the entire screen of a modern laptop. That impressed me considering when it came out. I'm not sure you could even buy widescreen monitors in the nineties.
Quake II on OG PS looks VERY nice considering the hardware it's running on. Good video sir.
First thing I did when I put custom firmware on my PSP was install the homebrew quake 1 port for it. Runs beautifully, and surprisingly controllable on the psp =)
I absolutely love this series! I can't imagine playing Quake 2 with a freaking mouse and controller on PS1...
It's pretty impressive to me that they managed to port Doom3 and Half Life 2 to Xbox. With dedication, a clever and talented porter can do some amazing things.
Quake 1, the best single player FPS campaign ever
The division be like: "10 second load times? ...Hold my beer."
You forgot to cover Quake II on the N64 but as always great work :)
2:00 The game is technically spoken really building the level.
To save cartridge space, instead of saving lightmaps on there, they get compiled at load time.
love this series.great video
Also, I dare say that, without the creation and use of the PlayStation Performance Analyzer, Hammerhead Studios wouldn't have had shot in hell of porting Quake 2 to the PlayStation. There a were roughly five attempts made by various studios to port the first Quake to the PS1, all of which failed.
Lobotomy ported their own code from Saturn to Playstation and got it running at 60fps with frequent frame dips out of the box. They couldn't find anyone to release the game though, and they went under soon afterwards.
Yeah, I read about that deal never getting sealed. Such a real shame.
I have both Quake 1 and 2 for the N64. So weird seeing those exist.
WOW. Saturn and Quake? Never thought that would work out. XD
The d-pad on the Saturn was basically a floating analog stick, Sega should have beat everyone else to the market with a Saturn controller that had two D-pads and four shoulder buttons for emulating PC controls in shooting games.
Would have been rad.
This video made me think Quake II was console exclusive to the PS1 but it turns out it was on N64 too. I would’ve loved to see that version being featured here too.
I must say that PS1 Quake 2 multitap action was awesome fun.
Yay, it's an episode with Derek again. I really like the sound of his voice :) .
where is N64 Quake 2 ??????
This ^
Late but better than never.It is modified version of the quake 64 with quake 2 skin and features but I think it is still impressive.
Another great episode.
Why are there basically no games that support controller and mouse in tandem? You'd think that someone would try it now that controller support on PC is a thing! It would be perfect for something like GTA, where driving is best done with a stick, and shooting with the mouse
There are plenty of PC games where you can use both at the same time, it's just incredibly awkward to do so.
Controller and mouse was basically how I played TF2 - even though I never played Quake II myself, it's a pretty easy control scheme to get used to: you get the slipperyness of the analog stick over WASD, _and_ the smooth freelook of the mouse over a second analog stick.
It works in PC Overwatch.
"now that controller support on PC is a thing!"
What? PC's have literally always supported alternative input devices
I call BS. Absolute majority of games with controller support allow you to use it and your mouse simultaneously (which makes Steam Controller works wonders for shooters and such in living room - combining analog movement with precise aiming and couch gaming).
awesome video!
Best part of the N64 Quake is that it lets you turn off the mud filter the N64 puts over all of its games and tries to pass off as anti-aliasing.
More games on the system needed to have that option, especially ones with complex dark and/or mechanical looking textures and those with pre-rendered backgrounds. Games like Mario 64 and Starfox 64 mostly made it out unscathed, and games like Majora's Mask and Banjo Kazooie definitely came out worse for wear, but not enough to really hamper them too much. Games like Resident Evil 2, Perfect Dark, and Donkey Kong 64 though? They really suffered from the filter visually at times. They could've majorly benefited from turning it off, which apparently slightly improves performance to boot. Only by a frame or two but still, Perfect Dark and DK64 needed every last frame they could've gotten.
Dont go hard on N64 Building: Catridges were small, so i expect its decompresing that level from card to memory.
With 4MB of RAM I doubt it was doing much. Probably just poorly optimized so it had to do some work setting up the ROM access and finding all the entities in the map to be placed in RAM.
I played the n64 Version is great but the remastered is the best
Curently playing the remaster on ps4.Really awesome game indeed !
And now we've got 8-player splitscreen in the Quake 2 remaster!
If SSFF made a podcast, I'd listen.
The BEST port for Quake 1: The Homebrew Wii port! Being able to play Quake with Wiimotes was very cool.
11:02 cracking up at the 8 player street racer skit!
I used to have a T1 line in my house in the 90s just so I could play Quake. That was back when you could only get those for businesses, it cost me a fortune and they had to tear up the whole street. I had to stop though because I got too obsessed with it. Jamie pull that up..
I had Sega saturn and Quake and it was a perfect port...
Awesome vid! I always wanted Quake on the Saturn but I ended up with Quake 2 on the PS1 and then Quake 3 on the Dreamcast then PS2 (didnt have pc at the time). Was really excited and got Quake 4 for the 360 when it came out and eventually Quake Wars. I like them all but everyone tells me I should've played them on PC. XD
Anyway, I'm looking forward for this new game, pretty high expectations this time though.
I played Quake 2's four player deathmatch with my cousins. That was a great afternoon! In par with N64's Quake 2 deathmatch.
The Saturn is very 3d capable. It's harder to program for, and while lobotomy did well for the time, people have figured out how to better optimize 3d on the system. Saturn's life was cut short, so we never got the full capabilities of the system back in it's day.
Dune 2000 on the PS1 allowed you to use both the Playstation mouse and the link cable, plus unlike the PC version it used 3D models. If you ever come across it it'd be another example of an upgraded port with support for obscure accessories.
Quake & Quake 2, along with DOOM and Hexen, played surprisingly well on the N64, back then, I never had a problem
The discussion below made me think of something else, Derek:
You said in the past that you thought Doom II's Arch-Vile and Revenant monsters were utterly ridiculous--"there's challenging, then there's insane" IIRC--so then, what must you have thought of Quake's Vores (basically the Revenant except the homing shots CAN FOLLOW YOU AROUND CORNERS) and the Shamber (basically the Arch-Vile but without the dead-resurrecting ability, but their lightning attack works almost exactly like Archvile's fire)?
Quake Saturn also features dynamic lighting effects not seen in vanilla PC Quake. Just sayin'.
The saturn version has beauty lighting effects.
freaking great vid
I recently got my hands on a 3D Control Pad and "Quake" for the Saturn. While you do have to put in a code to enable analog mode, while it takes some time to get used to moving and aiming (you go forward and back with B and Z buttons while strafing is Y and C), it does become second nature once you get the hang of things. I actually can't play it with the normal control scheme now. XD
I loved ps1 quake 2 back in the day. I remember playing through the whole game with mouse and controller and loving every second. I even had the pc version at the time but there was something amazing about paying it on a ps1. Also had a multi tap and played countless hours of 3 or 4 player deathmatch and ctf.
9:08 = Why it still gives me brain cramps to readjust to the Armored Core titles back when vertical look control was mapped to shoulder buttons.
Dude you rock 🔥