"It was my hope to STRIP HIM OF ALL THAT HE HELD MOST DEAR before I killed him"...that sounds almost identical to part of the Valonqar prophecy. "Queen you shall be, until another, younger and more beautiful comes to cast you down AND TAKE ALL THAT YOU HOLD DEAR." Makes me wonder if Tyene Sand (who's said to be very fair, share her father's extensive knowledge of poisons, and is on her way to King's Landing) will be the one to take what Cersei holds dear by poisoning Myrcella or Tommen. Interesting...
I'm really enjoying this series! It's almost on par with your Catelyn Sucks videos. My elation at someone else sharing hatred for that wretched woman won't permit me to like any videos more than those😅. But these are great!!
thank you so much...I must admit, the Catelyn videos were probably more fun to make than anything else we've done...it was a real learning experience too...people flipped out on us when we made the first one, and by the time we finished the series, it seemed like half the internet all of a sudden hated her as much as we did
The Order of the Green Hand It shocks me how many people actually liked the character knowing full well how she treated Jon was bordering on abuse. Tormenting a motherless child should've told everyone all they needed to know about Cat. Your videos did an awesome job highlighting what the show hid. I don't see how anyone could hate y'all for it...the evidence is straight from the books.
for some reason, people reacted towards us as if we were hating on their mother...we actually thought making them was going to destroy our channel and we took a short break from her...then, when we came back at her, we did it with a really sarcastic tone, and all of a sudden, people were completely ok with us hating on her
this is a moment I actually feed bad for Tywin. Like he tried SO HARD but he failed SO BAD in raising his own kids and it just keeps coming back to bite him, so even though he does everything else expertly, he has to sit there and develop a freaking aneurism because his twins are morons, his daughter has no sense of discipline or honor, he spent so much money on an education that CLEARLY everyone but Tyrion ignored (because you KNOW he did), and then he trusted Circi to be a decent mother and raise a not monster child and instead she created Joffery and coddled him in his murderous ways.That man needs some morphine on a slow drip at this point.
Clare Kolodzik wow, people are really blindly in love with Tywin. Or is it Charles Dance, whose role is so much more sympathetic than the book countrepart. He is a toxic father who was unable to love or even notice his children, because he's broken and they pay the price. He is the very opposite of Ned, who loved his kids too much, which turned out to be just as harmful. The intentions make a whole world of a difference, don't they? When Tywin speaks "family", he means power and reputation and he fails to notice individual human beings behind the names, he is basically a Doran. People love to hate Cersei, but I wouldn't compare her to Starks or other characters. In a way she is still a heartbroken, grief striken little girl, frustrated with injustice of patriarchy she lives in. Unlike Tywin, she is MAD, so you shouldn't really expect much from her. She couldn't escape her life with Robert for an adventure, like Jamie did and she lost a child (and will lose two more) she saw as a purpose of her pain and humiliation. To a degree, everyone is what their family, fate and the culture makes them to be, some people are naturally more resistant, some aren't.
ocandro don’t get me wrong I hate Tywin- he has a whole host of issues and I don’t approve of plenty of things that he does. But in this one instance I really felt bad for him. Didn’t like him, but felt bad for him. As for Circi- I’ll say what I say about every character. At the end of the day, you make your own decisions, and you decide who you want to be. Doesn’t matter if the world is stacked against you (I’ve been in some pretty deep holes myself) you decide what that is going to make you. Circi let it make her a monster and she let it excuse her actions in her own mind. She’s responsible for that. She’s responsible for failing to raise Joffrey. Tywin is responsible for all his choices. One doesn’t excuse the other.
Clare Kolodzik Clare Kolodzik thanks for a civilised answer, so nice to see that in the internet. I am not saying she doesn't make her terrible decisions or that fate has been particulary cruel to her. I just think her judgement is pretty impaired by her madness (which in her case is more of a brain health, maybe chemical imbalance or genetic issue in my opinion, but that's of course open to interpretation), which separates her from some other characters, who despite trauma, are still more or less capable of being rational. But I see now that perhaps we pretty much agree on both characters. I've been through crap after crap over the years too and my nervous system loves to work against me, but when I compare myself to friends with more serious mental conditions, I see how much more capable I am of controlling my life (for better or worse), at least most of the time. Cheers
I agree with a lot of what you said about Cersei and her always seeking of Tywins approval she was also very envious of Jamie but the day she met the woods witch has had a massive impact on her life and is the major source of her paranoia
That is just amazing. You have put together a cogent analysis that beautifully ties together the characteristics and motivations of these characters. Bravo!! I love your work so much you both do an extraordinary job!
if Spider and the Cheese merchant are one side of two party game, then it makes sense that Littlefinger worked with Doran who obviously was the second part - they played the game for so long, but I wonder who are the other players that got involved recently.
Paweł Wolnicki as Varys said this isn't a game for two players so they began to eliminate LF and Doran this especially shows in Essos regarding Daenerys and Aegon, Varys and Illyrio won that round
Fantastic Breaking Bad references. I however have always imagined Oleanna wasn't breaking bad, she was already there. That woman would have been at home at the head of mob family.
I like your video, but I still believe Qyburn is Doran's friend in court with his connection with the brave companions. Who has history working with Oberyn.
The Order of the Green Hand right? What right Mountain has? And wouldn't that show Joffrey really has Lannister behind him and even his KG doubts him as true son, or weren't their loyalty be questioned by others - Cersei is more than half mad she would take it as a slight to her
the only thing I can think of is because Tyrion was the accused as opposed to when Cersei is later accused...as the queen regent, she had a KG as her champion, but in this case, Tyrion was the accused...I don't know, but those are technically different circumstances
Out of the maelstrom of rabbit hole questions going thru my mind, I have two for the comment section: 1.How much help/involvement did Doran lend Baelish in killing Jon Arryn? 2.Does Doran know about Myrcella's incestious birth? and if so...to what extant is he willing to allow trystane to be tied to her?
Well, the Tears of Lys are produced in Lys, mostly. And if Doran has good connections to the free cities, he'd easily be a able to get some for LF to poison Jon.
Bruce Waite Everybody who is intelligent knows about Myrcellas birth everybody else ignores it except maybe the Crownland lords I think Doran wouldn't care how attached Trystane got to her this is the man who has his son more scared of him than a literal dragon
The Order of the Green Hand A Storm of Swords and A Dance with Dragons are split into two books each so the set has seven books. And it seems the wording and spelling is more British than American. Also comes with a map of Westeros and the Free cities.
Since you brought it cat. I thought of why people side with cat. If you see it in her point of view. Of course you would side with her. Its her point of view. Same as asking a psychopath why they kill and if you hear thier story. You will see why they think they did nothing wrong. Like with cat. Cersie is the same but at least she admits it. Thats why i like cersie. She is crazy but at least doesn't want to act dainty
The only complete theory of Joeffry’s poisoning that includes other many theories combined together. And it does make sense. narration in this video may seem a little difficult to follow. But it’s defineatly worth watching till the end. Great job and deep analysis, The Order Of The Green Hand! It was worth waiting for so long. Thank u!
the next one is already half written...it was supposed to be the end of this one, but we kept finding more and more stuff we wanted to get into this one and next weeks topic ended up having to be cut
I guess I'm just going to sit tight 'till next week, then. Thanks for all the detail and thorough investigation, it adds up to truly wonderful content.
we're going to try to get back on our once a week, Monday releases again...the show threw us off our schedule and life has gotten in the way of us getting back to it, but we're determined to start getting content out more often and on a regular schedule
+The Order of the Green Hand : This is exactly why I abandoned my chance to make videos back when the TV series started in 2011. I had the best of intentions, but it was so, SO hard to wrap one up when there were so many avenues to go down. I simply could not make a short video - about ANYTHING - and now that the pros are here, I just sit back and watch :)
no point risking oberyn's life? but doran loves risking his children's lives. thats like his go to move. sending people on deadly missions that they are not prepared for. thats the most doran thing ever
I'VE BEEN AWAY FROM THE INTERNET FOR A WEEK! BUT WHEN I GOT THE NOTIFICATION THAT THE ORDER OF THE GREENHAND HAD A NEW UPLOAD, WELL I AIN'T GONNA LIE I POPPED SOME POPCORN AND SETTLED IN! P.S. sorry for the all caps but I knew we were in for deep analysis on the got back stories! Y'all are quickly becoming my favorite channel!
The Order of the Green Hand Thank you! Us book GAME OF THRONERS got to stick together! Y'all are putting out way higher quality content than 95% of these other channels! Especially the show only channels, if you bring up how the show contradicts the books they'll break out the pitch forks and and laterns and start a witch Hunt! I personally hope G.R.R.M TAKES THE OTHER books in a completely different direction kinda like an alternative reality deal! That'd be epic!
I'm such a ASOIAF nerd that I created a *Winter Rose* Foaming Bath Scrub at work 😂😂. It smells amazing. I actually spent a crazy amount of time researching what it could have smelled like. Lol. And I've got it. ... 😂😂
allyria stark I wish I could upload a picture on the comments here. It's really pretty. I made a scrub and some bath salts for it. Hopefully it sells this week in the mall at Corpus Christi. Most will buy it because it smells great and looks pretty... But there has to be some ASOIAF fans who will know what it is lol
I don’t think the author’s annotation will completely rule out the possibility that oberyn was poisoning Ryan. Also, Have you seen Preston Jacobs’ series the dornish master plan? He has some pretty good ideas on it too. Keep up the great work!
we don't really watch or read other people's ideas about the story...we checked a few videos out when we were reading the series the first time years ago, but once we realized how much false information circulates the internet, we decided that if we were going to figure this stuff out, we should stay away from other people's stuff because it clouds your ability to objectively look at the information in front of you because other people's ideas become preconceived notions...since we started covering Dorne, I feel like I have learned quite a bit about PJs ideas on the topic because of the comment section, and our last video seemed to have triggered a lot of his fans, but I still maintain that there is no reason to try to implicate a dead man in a 16 year old murder...they wanted to strip him of all he held dear, THEN kill him, not kill him then strip him of all he held dear...the annotation on the red scorpion brooch seems to confirm that they knew Joffrey was going to be poisoned and the trial by combat that followed it was where they were going to try to pry the implication of an alive and well Tywin out of the Mountain, and given the public nature of the trial by combat, it would weaken Tywin's position enough to start going after him...that is not to say that they didn't intend to try to poison him in the future, but poisoning Tywin to create a trial by combat where they got the Mountain to implicate Tywin just doesn't make sense to me
Yeah, you guys have to be wrong about setting up Tyrion and hoping for trial by combat. Preston Jacobs made an absolutely convincing case that the wine isn't what was poisoned, but Tyrion's pie. Why would Lady Olenna risk poisoning Margaery? It wasn't the cup or the wine that was poisoned. Joffrey ate Tyrion's pie, and THEN he began to die. Maybe Oberyn was after Tywin, maybe he was willing to settle for Tyrion. I think it only mattered that it was a Lannister. Joffrey wasn't the intended target of the Purple Wedding, I am convinced of it. Shame really... what was the plan for Joffrey if he wasn't the target? Everyone knew he was a psychotic and incompetent ruler... Regardless, no way Oberyn poisoned Joffrey for hopes of trial by combat. No way.
I dig it. Makes sense. The only thing that makes me mad about this video, is that I didn't see any of it myself without having to be led by the hand. Great sleuthing, folks.
I still think Tywin was poisoned (just don't remember the name of the poison), but Tyrion killed him before even Tywin realized he'd been poisoned (by Shae, who may be one of the Sandsnakes in disguise). I always knew there was more to the Red Viper than what was obvious. I didn't realize Dorian sent Oberyn to his death, I figured they were arrogant enough to believe Oberyn would survive. But Dorian Martell is someone willing to sacrifice even his family if he got what he wanted. Personally, I thought he'd willing sacrifice his children to avenge his sister, but he wouldn't sacrifice his brother. I realize I was wrong about that
I have a question I wanted to ask since last video why did they have to know that Jeoffrey was going to be murdered what if they expected for Oberon to be on trial for tywin murder by poisoning? Please answer me :)
because murdering Tywin before stripping him of all he held dear wasn't their plan...they wanted to implicate Tywin in the murders of Elia and her children, and planned to get that confession/implication out of the Mountain in a trial by combat...said implication of Tywin is useless if Tywin is already dead
Awesome ones... I definitely need a re-read to spot much of what you highlighted. Keep up the good work. I have a request though, will you do videos on Patchface's monologues once you're done with Doran Martell?
During the show’s wedding reception scenes, as Joffrey is acting like a young Mad Aerys, Tywin indeed looks like he wants to kill his nephew. Joffrey broadcasted his insanity for the aristocracy of the Seven Kingdoms. Had Joffrey not been poisoned, Tywin surely would have removed him.
I don't see how that author's annotation has anything to do with whether or not Tywin was poisoned with Widow's Blood. We know from Tyrion's POV that Tywin had the chief symptom of Widow's Blood poisoning, namely, severe constipation, at the time of Tywin's death. Also, Oberyn, despite his claim, does not actually try to implicate Tywin when he's fighting the Mountain. He spends the fight trying to make the Mountain admit his own crimes, and from Arianne's words later, this seems to be about setting up Cersei for her lie about the Mountain's being dead, when she implies that the Martells expect to see the "eight foot tall" Mountain again in the near future, despite his being poisoned by Oberyn. So it certainly seems that Oberyn poisoning Tywin works within the story text. Plus, this sort of death by poison is exactly the MO of the Martells' concept of vengeance, being an extremely painful end, and being at the hand of Oberyn himself instead of a swift beheading by another executioner. Also, there is basically no chance that Tywin would face justice even if the Mountain had implicated him, so it makes no sense for him to care about implicated Tywin. Oberyn already knows Tywin is guilty. It also seems very likely that the Martells are behind Joffrey's poisoning, probably by Shae's hand. Shae is a very weird character, and is very likely a Sand Snake (probably Sarella, since she's the only one we haven't seen in person yet). Shae specifically demonstrates one of Martin's pet peeves of fantasy writing, namely having a low-born peasant talk back to nobility far above her station. He has an old interview where he rather loudly complains about that sort of thing, about how the low-born girl would be raped or beaten for insolence in a feudal system (which isn't actually accurate of a Chivalric Society, but it's what Martin believes in any case). So either Martin violated his own rule, or Shae's unpeasantlike behaviors were a result of a high-born lady forgetting her place and nearly blowing her cover. Which mirrors what we see with Arya and later Sansa/Alayne.
"Widow’s blood, this one is called, for the color. A cruel potion. It shuts down a man’s bladder and bowels, until he drowns in his own poisons.” - Grand Maester Pycelle at Tyrion's trial, giving a detailed explanation of only one of the various poisons found in Oberyn's possession, a poison that causes a slow, drawn out death by constipation. Oberyn outright implies to Tyrion when visiting his cell, that Tywin is already poisoned. “Your father,” said Prince Oberyn, “may not live forever.” Something about the way he said it made the hairs on the back of Tyrion’s neck bristle. Oberyn even says "Valar morghulis" in passing, a reference to the Faceless Men, who so often kill in ways that appear accidental or natural, like a poison that shuts down the bowels. Then, after Tyrion kills his father while the man is sitting on the privy, Martin has him specifically note that Tywin's bowels let loose upon death, giving off a godawful stink, which rather implies Tywin was constipated and is a weird thing for someone to think about after assassinating one's father. Also, it seems oddly in keeping with Martin's weird sense of humor to have Tyrion actually help his hated father by saving him from a long, drawn out death, by putting him out of his misery. As to Tywin's funeral, that is almost certainly Martin making a reference to the infamous funeral of William the Conqueror, who ruptured his intestines while riding a horse and died. And then actually exploded at his funeral, spraying body fluids over the crowd and sending everyone fleeing from the smell.
What I don't get is that when Cersei is being tried by the faith of the Seven she isn't able to use Robert Strong as her champion because the kingsguard is required to serve as a champion in matters regarding to the king, but for some reason for this trial they are able to use the mountain when he's not in the kingsguard.
I know this is unrelated to the video but i was wondering have you guys thought of covering anything of the blackfyer rebellion and if you did what would you say about it
The Order of the Green Hand Well I recently found a video by a youtuber bridge4 that talks about what Qyburn did to the Mountain and it was interesting.
Huge fan of your videos! Had a question for you do you think Brienne_of_Tarth is pretty meris? Her description sounds like brienne cuz bitter literally chewed her cheeks off! She is six feet tall and earless, wit a slit nose, deep scars in both cheeks and really cold eyes. She is blonde.
Rshawtwa wasn't Meris a villain character or maybe I am not familiar with her? But Brienne is supposed to he honorable and acts like a knight unlike most knights we met
allyria stark its just in the feast fot crows.cersi makes a big deal that it must be a kings guard that fights in trial by combats when defending a member of the royal family..but tywin makes his own laws ..because hes the mighty tywin..
A good add in is, with Martells wealth, it would explain LFs seemingly easy capacity for big picture elaborate expenditure. You don't go from zero to hero just like that, you require money to make money. It would make sense if Dorans bankrolling I'm not downplaying Baelishs feats economically with how he's amassed vast wealth via investment / speculation / trade etc. but he did come from an impoverished house and had fallen out of favor with Lord Tully by that point
In a LF video they pointed out how Baelish has created dozens of silly sounding jobs with people that do not exist so he can steal money from the crown while that bordell serves as an explanation for his wealth.
Oh yeah, we've got no doubt LF is swindling financially from the crown coffers and has been doing all sorts of shady shit as Master of Coin. Tyrion noticed discrepancies and got a headache looking at income / expenses of the IT, and couldn't make sense of it all in the short while he had to look into it The amount of money hes used to pay people off or buy their loyalty is an extensive list. he's got his hands in cookie jars everywhere. the revenue streams he was producing under Robert is telling as well, especially when it's told Robert was pretty much beggaring the realm with all his expenses. we can reasonably suspect that cashflow the Iron Throne recieves from Baelish would stop producing once Martell plans grew to fruition and the chess pieces are all set. Cersei was using Lannister gold to fund everything in Feast if i recall correctly
if the martells are really peddling in flesh, its only a hop and skip to bankrolling LF's prostitutes. Heh, thats almost a money laundering scheme in itself
Exactly. The Martells are Baelish's bank, in the way that the Lannisters (and Bravosi Iron Bank) have been the bank to the Realm. The difference being, Littlefinger knows how to make money and also deliver the political gains the Martells desire as a return on their investment.
24:50 Oh, that's quite normal. I also have a brain aneurysm whenever Cersei says anything(I'm 340 something pages into AFFC right now and probably would have had my head explıde if not for Kevan).
we used to use a lot of pop culture but people didn't get it half the time and it seemed like it was more trouble than it was worth, but last week we were talking about Heizenburging the QoT and thought it would be hilarious so we went for it
It’s amazing how many details you guys found on a character I thought wasn’t completely flushed out and yet it now seems I may have been mistaken. Little Finger and Doran, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
Gift of Oberyn and the story he told made me think it was Martells that posined Joffrey but let Olenna believe they were the one who did that, and by putting the blame on them made Olenna bound to Littlefinger, I always saw her as a possible Lady Greenhand now how this will affect things?
Guys...I think Brienne was not dead by hanging...she actually stopped and she even sent a letter to Jaime and Jaime even agreed to come meet her ..this was when Jaime got a letter from cersei asking for his help...he choose Brienne ask for help and came
I love how your videos tie into each other. You guys are clearly on to something in regards to the bigger picture. Two questions: Your intro and outro music is so epic. Was it something that you guys stumbled upon, or did you have someone compose it for you? Second question: Is there a chance that you will ever make a video about the Tyrells? Their house doesn't seem to get any love. I'm curious what they might be scheming now as their alliance with the Lannisters is falling apart. I keep thinking that Loras wasn't hurt as badly on Dragonstone as the reports say or that the hurt one wasn't him at all. I just can't figure out what the Tyrells would get out of this treachery, but maybe you guys can shed some light.
thank you...our music is something we bought, and we probably will do some Tyrell videos as some point...we're obviously more interested in the Gardeners than them, but they do seem destined to play a relatively large role moving forward so we would be derelict of our duties if we didn't cover them at some point...we definitely have a few topics in mind that we plan on covering before that though, like Euron, Patchface, another Littlefinger vid or two, Varys and Illyrio, but somewhere in the middle of all that dense material, the Tyrells might fit in there nicely as a break from all that scheming
Wolfsbane Alphas I wouldn't be surprised if the Tyrells threw their lot in with everyone, then just wait around and finally give their full support to the seeming victor. Loras is a sworn Kingsguard, but since Joffrey established a precedent by releasing Ser Barristan from his duties... who knows. They could attempt marrying her to Willas, but we all know that Dany likes a bit of fire in her men. Loras would fit the bill if she didn't see right through his preferences. Then again, I really wonder what Loras is up to, since I can't really imagine him as a skilled negotiator.
Great video guys! Have you noticed that, when Doran sends the Sandsnakes to King's Landing, he first says that, "Dorne still has friends at court" and then tells Lady Nym *one page later* that he needs "an ear at court". So what now? Does he have friends there or not? Well, maybe he doesn't have friends in the Small Council anymore, with Little Finger and Oberyn gone. That's why. He also casually first sent a person who hates the Lannisters because they killed his sister to a city full of Lannisters; then, he sends a person who hates the Lannisters because they killed her father to a city full of Lannisters. Okay. Nym being the daughter of Oberyn also is sure to annoy the Tyrells since Oberyn crippled Willas years back. Btw. I wonder what the Faith might do to Tyene when they find out she isn't a maiden anymore and tends to poison people. Either they will kill her or welcome her as one of their own. The Andals never poisoned people, right? Oh wait, they did.
It is heavily implied. Tyene and Arianna nearly had sex with Andrey Dault when they were really young, which I'd say is around 14 or 15. Arianna is around 23 or 24 during A Dance with Dragons, iirc. Tyene is the same age (which is why they are this close). Why would Tyene who was willing to have sex with ~14 years not find anyone to lose it to in the next 10 years?
Potatosti i see well there is something interesting here that arianna and tyene are close to each other so even though i hate the tv show don't you think that the fate of arianna and tyene are little bit spoiled in the show ellaria(character based on arianna) and tyene got captured by cercei who poisoned tyene and made elaria watch her die slowly So it's grrm thing two close people watching themselves die and can't do nothing to stop it one is poisoned the other is let to starve to death
Hey Order of the Green Hand theirs a story in DCU that's about a Hero called the crow in which he is killed a magical crow revies the hero is capable of resurrecting people who have been unjustly murdered and/or have left behind a terrible sadness that prevents their soul from resting, so that person may be able to seek vengeance on the person or people responsible for their death and suffering. DO you think maybe the Three eyed crow is actual a good being just serving justice and vengeance for all the crimes that the Andals and all other people of the world have done?
Always thought hotath was a slave not only by what you have said but it was the oranges that convinced me. Why would the head of guards need to pick up fallen fruit and the way he eats and savours them makes it sound as if this is a rare occurrence and something he has to steal and eat in secret. Love the vids and with house of dragon on its time to dust off the tin foil hat again. 💖🏴💖
Personally, I don't think Doran Martel is actually interested in justice or vengeance. I think he's a sociopath who is using it as an excuse to advance his own personal power. It doesn't change the theory all that much because his plan would be the same either way, but should a time come when Doran has to choose between vengeance and his own power, I definitely know which one he'll choose.
And who are you the proud Lord said, that I must bow so low? Only the blood of a better coat, that's all the truth I'll know. In a coat, a black, a coat of red, the Dragon still has fire. And Fire is hot, and strong my Lord, stronger than a lion's claws. And so he spoke, and so he spoke, that Lord of Lannister, but now the flames scream o're his halls with no one there to hear, yes now the flames, scream o're his halls, and no more lions there to hear.
I get more and more bitter by the day waiting for TWOW...I don't know how the people who started reading the series in the 90s do it...we're so impatient that we ended up with a UA-cam channel because we needed the answers and spent so much time trying to figure out what was going to happen that we ended up thinking that we should figure out how to make videos to share what we thought we figured out
Isn't it overly complicated to have Tyrion as a part of this plot? The most obvious suspect is Oberyn himself, who would then demand trial by battle and get his confession from Gregor Clegane implicating Tywin, and get away with the assassination for free. The Tyrells would have had to keep quiet because Baelish tricked Olenna into joining the conspiracy. A Baelish-Martell alliance controls Dorne, the Riverlands, and the Vale, and has Myrcella Baratheon and Sansa Stark in their possession as well.
the reason we feel Tyrion getting framed has to be part of the deal is that in order for them to know Joffrey was going to die, which they certainly seemed to have known, they would have to be friends with Littlefinger, who knew they were framing Tyrion for it, and it seems unlikely that if he was going to tell Doran they were going to kill Joffrey, he would also tell him he was going to frame Tyrion
I really like the George quote at the end of the video. It is a murky picture. It seems like an extra variable to frame Tyrion in this way. Doran/Oberyn, Olenna, and Littlefinger get what they want whether Oberyn, Tyrion, Dontos, or the waiter is the culprit. If Tyrion had just played ball and gone to the Wall, only Tywin benefits. Maybe Tywin really wasn't sleeping with Shae, and she was just put there to send Tyrion over the edge to kill his father? But the idea was to take everything from Tywin and then kill him.
It's not that contrived or convoluted once you consider that Cersei's involvement all but ensures Tyrion will be suspected and accused by her unless Oberyn pops up and confesses while Joffrey is gasping his last.
Love the direction you're going with this, you've given me a new perspective on the dornish story line. While I love this story line and all of your videos, one of my favorite "factions" in westeros is Euron's iron born. The Forsaken chapter in particular from w.o.w. is especially interesting to me. Im hoping there is more coming about the iron born and this chapter in particular. Needless to say I am anxiously awaiting said video. Anyway I appreciate all your efforts and thanks for giving me your insight into ASOIAF
Seth Huntley my faction is STANNIS THE MANNIS except for when he is Stannis the fuck up actually know that I think about I'm more on his side cuz he is probably going to help Jon out and now that I think about it all his good decisions come from Jon or Davos.
I'm enjoying the theory. The idea that everyone, Tywin included, wanted Joffery dead is an especially fun idea.
Pycelle loved Tywin more than Cersei😂😂 #FACTS
"She was so busy hating Tyrion..."LOL typical Cersei
"It was my hope to STRIP HIM OF ALL THAT HE HELD MOST DEAR before I killed him"...that sounds almost identical to part of the Valonqar prophecy. "Queen you shall be, until another, younger and more beautiful comes to cast you down AND TAKE ALL THAT YOU HOLD DEAR." Makes me wonder if Tyene Sand (who's said to be very fair, share her father's extensive knowledge of poisons, and is on her way to King's Landing) will be the one to take what Cersei holds dear by poisoning Myrcella or Tommen. Interesting...
hey m'lady...very interesting observation
I'm really enjoying this series! It's almost on par with your Catelyn Sucks videos. My elation at someone else sharing hatred for that wretched woman won't permit me to like any videos more than those😅. But these are great!!
thank you so much...I must admit, the Catelyn videos were probably more fun to make than anything else we've done...it was a real learning experience too...people flipped out on us when we made the first one, and by the time we finished the series, it seemed like half the internet all of a sudden hated her as much as we did
The Order of the Green Hand It shocks me how many people actually liked the character knowing full well how she treated Jon was bordering on abuse. Tormenting a motherless child should've told everyone all they needed to know about Cat. Your videos did an awesome job highlighting what the show hid. I don't see how anyone could hate y'all for it...the evidence is straight from the books.
for some reason, people reacted towards us as if we were hating on their mother...we actually thought making them was going to destroy our channel and we took a short break from her...then, when we came back at her, we did it with a really sarcastic tone, and all of a sudden, people were completely ok with us hating on her
this is a moment I actually feed bad for Tywin. Like he tried SO HARD but he failed SO BAD in raising his own kids and it just keeps coming back to bite him, so even though he does everything else expertly, he has to sit there and develop a freaking aneurism because his twins are morons, his daughter has no sense of discipline or honor, he spent so much money on an education that CLEARLY everyone but Tyrion ignored (because you KNOW he did), and then he trusted Circi to be a decent mother and raise a not monster child and instead she created Joffery and coddled him in his murderous ways.That man needs some morphine on a slow drip at this point.
Clare Kolodzik wow, people are really blindly in love with Tywin. Or is it Charles Dance, whose role is so much more sympathetic than the book countrepart. He is a toxic father who was unable to love or even notice his children, because he's broken and they pay the price. He is the very opposite of Ned, who loved his kids too much, which turned out to be just as harmful. The intentions make a whole world of a difference, don't they? When Tywin speaks "family", he means power and reputation and he fails to notice individual human beings behind the names, he is basically a Doran. People love to hate Cersei, but I wouldn't compare her to Starks or other characters. In a way she is still a heartbroken, grief striken little girl, frustrated with injustice of patriarchy she lives in. Unlike Tywin, she is MAD, so you shouldn't really expect much from her. She couldn't escape her life with Robert for an adventure, like Jamie did and she lost a child (and will lose two more) she saw as a purpose of her pain and humiliation. To a degree, everyone is what their family, fate and the culture makes them to be, some people are naturally more resistant, some aren't.
ocandro don’t get me wrong I hate Tywin- he has a whole host of issues and I don’t approve of plenty of things that he does. But in this one instance I really felt bad for him. Didn’t like him, but felt bad for him. As for Circi- I’ll say what I say about every character. At the end of the day, you make your own decisions, and you decide who you want to be. Doesn’t matter if the world is stacked against you (I’ve been in some pretty deep holes myself) you decide what that is going to make you. Circi let it make her a monster and she let it excuse her actions in her own mind. She’s responsible for that. She’s responsible for failing to raise Joffrey. Tywin is responsible for all his choices. One doesn’t excuse the other.
Clare Kolodzik Clare Kolodzik thanks for a civilised answer, so nice to see that in the internet.
I am not saying she doesn't make her terrible decisions or that fate has been particulary cruel to her. I just think her judgement is pretty impaired by her madness (which in her case is more of a brain health, maybe chemical imbalance or genetic issue in my opinion, but that's of course open to interpretation), which separates her from some other characters, who despite trauma, are still more or less capable of being rational. But I see now that perhaps we pretty much agree on both characters. I've been through crap after crap over the years too and my nervous system loves to work against me, but when I compare myself to friends with more serious mental conditions, I see how much more capable I am of controlling my life (for better or worse), at least most of the time.
Cheers
I agree with a lot of what you said about Cersei and her always seeking of Tywins approval she was also very envious of Jamie but the day she met the woods witch has had a massive impact on her life and is the major source of her paranoia
@@clare9621 and Cersei killed a girl at like 9 years old because she dare ask maggy if she’ll marry Jaime
the idea of Doran martell and petyr baelish conspiring together invokes sooooo much Sith imagery
Something, something Dark Side. Something, something complete.
@@sethcruikshank6224 *PASSION*
It works as well with Doran being "the strangers" (who is also said to be the many faced god) pawn and Littlefinger being braavosi
@@gholamdapantaloonsniffer8218Always two there are, no more, no less.
I love you guys I think hands down you Preston Jacobs and to a lesser degree in deep geek are the best Asoiaf theories 👍🏿
Add Alt shift X to that list.👌🏾
That is just amazing. You have put together a cogent analysis that beautifully ties together the characteristics and motivations of these characters. Bravo!! I love your work so much you both do an extraordinary job!
thanks Steve
Prince Doran Nymeros Martell- the gouty gremlin
Pycelle loved Tywin more than anyone but for Tywin himself, lol.
I personally see Tywin as a very serious man who loved one person and one person only in his life...Joanna
Dorne is truly one of the most ruthless areas in Westros. Its too bad they didn't have time. To get across how dangerous they actual are in the show.
if Spider and the Cheese merchant are one side of two party game, then it makes sense that Littlefinger worked with Doran who obviously was the second part - they played the game for so long, but I wonder who are the other players that got involved recently.
Paweł Wolnicki as Varys said this isn't a game for two players so they began to eliminate LF and Doran this especially shows in Essos regarding Daenerys and Aegon, Varys and Illyrio won that round
Fantastic Breaking Bad references. I however have always imagined Oleanna wasn't breaking bad, she was already there. That woman would have been at home at the head of mob family.
Hey, guys, this is off topic but I googled it and beware can mean take care of... Beware the mummers dragon
I love you for this right now.
Aegon is last of her family, take care of him, take care of each other :(
The Order of the Green Hand no prob bob
Yay! Somdthing to watch while I'm sick
Random I hope you feel better soon!
So so good. Missed you guys. 😊
I like your video, but I still believe Qyburn is Doran's friend in court with his connection with the brave companions. Who has history working with Oberyn.
Shouldn't KG be the one champion their dead king? They failed to protect him let them fight for his justice
I can't believe how obvious that is now that you say it, but that hadn't occurred to me
The Order of the Green Hand right? What right Mountain has? And wouldn't that show Joffrey really has Lannister behind him and even his KG doubts him as true son, or weren't their loyalty be questioned by others - Cersei is more than half mad she would take it as a slight to her
I think you just won observation of the day
the only thing I can think of is because Tyrion was the accused as opposed to when Cersei is later accused...as the queen regent, she had a KG as her champion, but in this case, Tyrion was the accused...I don't know, but those are technically different circumstances
The Order of the Green Hand :'( I am so proud of myself my Lord and Lady :'( and damn George the devil is in the detail but don't overdo it lol
You two are like the Mulder and Skully of asoiaf 💚
Out of the maelstrom of rabbit hole questions going thru my mind, I have two for the comment section:
1.How much help/involvement did Doran lend Baelish in killing Jon Arryn?
2.Does Doran know about Myrcella's incestious birth? and if so...to what extant is he willing to allow trystane to be tied to her?
Well, the Tears of Lys are produced in Lys, mostly. And if Doran has good connections to the free cities, he'd easily be a able to get some for LF to poison Jon.
I've been wondering the same thing about that Myrish lens, that was delivered to winterfell. i wonder what happened to that thing
I didn't even realize that Oo
Bruce Waite Everybody who is intelligent knows about Myrcellas birth everybody else ignores it except maybe the Crownland lords I think Doran wouldn't care how attached Trystane got to her this is the man who has his son more scared of him than a literal dragon
Fantastic. I've been waiting patiently for this video. This is a great series you have going here
thank you Ser Kay of House Lew...your comments are always much appreciated
The Order of the Green Hand Thank you and you're welcome. And I just got the U.K. edition of the book series btw. Really cool set.
is the UK edition different than the American? or just different covers?
The Order of the Green Hand A Storm of Swords and A Dance with Dragons are split into two books each so the set has seven books. And it seems the wording and spelling is more British than American. Also comes with a map of Westeros and the Free cities.
I might need to check it out
The Green Hand is back!
Since you brought it cat. I thought of why people side with cat. If you see it in her point of view. Of course you would side with her. Its her point of view. Same as asking a psychopath why they kill and if you hear thier story. You will see why they think they did nothing wrong. Like with cat. Cersie is the same but at least she admits it. Thats why i like cersie. She is crazy but at least doesn't want to act dainty
I'm an agent of chaos, you know the thing about chaos, it's fair.
The only complete theory of Joeffry’s poisoning that includes other many theories combined together. And it does make sense. narration in this video may seem a little difficult to follow. But it’s defineatly worth watching till the end. Great job and deep analysis, The Order Of The Green Hand! It was worth waiting for so long. Thank u!
They *hanged Brienne and Pod.
Also, your audio quality continues to improve.
Loving this series!
Hey Scotty! hope you're doing well. Always nice to run into you on the boards, love QOT.🌹 😊
Doing great m'lady. Hope you are too. Always nice to get a rose from the Queen of Thorns : ) thank you!
That doesn't eliminate Tywin being poisoned. He had bowel problems before his death. That might be a sign of poison.
Now I'm truly intrigued. Can't wait for the next installment, please don't take as long as with this one.
the next one is already half written...it was supposed to be the end of this one, but we kept finding more and more stuff we wanted to get into this one and next weeks topic ended up having to be cut
I guess I'm just going to sit tight 'till next week, then. Thanks for all the detail and thorough investigation, it adds up to truly wonderful content.
Starting to sound like George hahah just kidding, great videos take time
we're going to try to get back on our once a week, Monday releases again...the show threw us off our schedule and life has gotten in the way of us getting back to it, but we're determined to start getting content out more often and on a regular schedule
+The Order of the Green Hand : This is exactly why I abandoned my chance to make videos back when the TV series started in 2011. I had the best of intentions, but it was so, SO hard to wrap one up when there were so many avenues to go down. I simply could not make a short video - about ANYTHING - and now that the pros are here, I just sit back and watch :)
no point risking oberyn's life? but doran loves risking his children's lives. thats like his go to move. sending people on deadly missions that they are not prepared for. thats the most doran thing ever
I'm gonna guess that Shae is the "hidden dagger".
You two do an awesome job of reading clues from the text.
Thank you
I'VE BEEN AWAY FROM THE INTERNET FOR A WEEK! BUT WHEN I GOT THE NOTIFICATION THAT THE ORDER OF THE GREENHAND HAD A NEW UPLOAD, WELL I AIN'T GONNA LIE I POPPED SOME POPCORN AND SETTLED IN! P.S. sorry for the all caps but I knew we were in for deep analysis on the got back stories! Y'all are quickly becoming my favorite channel!
Haha. Apology accepted. And thank you
The Order of the Green Hand Thank you! Us book GAME OF THRONERS got to stick together! Y'all are putting out way higher quality content than 95% of these other channels! Especially the show only channels, if you bring up how the show contradicts the books they'll break out the pitch forks and and laterns and start a witch Hunt! I personally hope G.R.R.M TAKES THE OTHER books in a completely different direction kinda like an alternative reality deal! That'd be epic!
Great work, thanks for getting me through this long night!
I'm such a ASOIAF nerd that I created a *Winter Rose* Foaming Bath Scrub at work 😂😂. It smells amazing. I actually spent a crazy amount of time researching what it could have smelled like. Lol. And I've got it. ... 😂😂
hahaha...you actually made this?
real winter roses are hellebores and they are black and sometimes poisonous, take care
The Order of the Green Hand I actually did lol. And yeah.. I'm only talking about Winterfell's Winter Rose..lol.
Gaming With A White Guy oh okay it must be beautiful
allyria stark I wish I could upload a picture on the comments here. It's really pretty. I made a scrub and some bath salts for it. Hopefully it sells this week in the mall at Corpus Christi. Most will buy it because it smells great and looks pretty... But there has to be some ASOIAF fans who will know what it is lol
Awkward moment when the new order of the green hand video dropped n u have no headphones at work😅😅😔
12:30 Chaos and Order - I can see someone has been listening to Peterson XD
It just seemed like Tywin was in the privy a lot so that is why I think a lot of folks think he was poisoned
Finally!
This should liven things up a bit!
Good video. I like the theory. I think your spot on
I don’t think the author’s annotation will completely rule out the possibility that oberyn was poisoning Ryan. Also, Have you seen Preston Jacobs’ series the dornish master plan? He has some pretty good ideas on it too.
Keep up the great work!
we don't really watch or read other people's ideas about the story...we checked a few videos out when we were reading the series the first time years ago, but once we realized how much false information circulates the internet, we decided that if we were going to figure this stuff out, we should stay away from other people's stuff because it clouds your ability to objectively look at the information in front of you because other people's ideas become preconceived notions...since we started covering Dorne, I feel like I have learned quite a bit about PJs ideas on the topic because of the comment section, and our last video seemed to have triggered a lot of his fans, but I still maintain that there is no reason to try to implicate a dead man in a 16 year old murder...they wanted to strip him of all he held dear, THEN kill him, not kill him then strip him of all he held dear...the annotation on the red scorpion brooch seems to confirm that they knew Joffrey was going to be poisoned and the trial by combat that followed it was where they were going to try to pry the implication of an alive and well Tywin out of the Mountain, and given the public nature of the trial by combat, it would weaken Tywin's position enough to start going after him...that is not to say that they didn't intend to try to poison him in the future, but poisoning Tywin to create a trial by combat where they got the Mountain to implicate Tywin just doesn't make sense to me
Yeah, you guys have to be wrong about setting up Tyrion and hoping for trial by combat.
Preston Jacobs made an absolutely convincing case that the wine isn't what was poisoned, but Tyrion's pie. Why would Lady Olenna risk poisoning Margaery? It wasn't the cup or the wine that was poisoned. Joffrey ate Tyrion's pie, and THEN he began to die.
Maybe Oberyn was after Tywin, maybe he was willing to settle for Tyrion. I think it only mattered that it was a Lannister. Joffrey wasn't the intended target of the Purple Wedding, I am convinced of it.
Shame really... what was the plan for Joffrey if he wasn't the target? Everyone knew he was a psychotic and incompetent ruler...
Regardless, no way Oberyn poisoned Joffrey for hopes of trial by combat. No way.
14:20
Hanged*
They are people, not tapestries
I dig it. Makes sense.
The only thing that makes me mad about this video, is that I didn't see any of it myself without having to be led by the hand.
Great sleuthing, folks.
I still think Tywin was poisoned (just don't remember the name of the poison), but Tyrion killed him before even Tywin realized he'd been poisoned (by Shae, who may be one of the Sandsnakes in disguise).
I always knew there was more to the Red Viper than what was obvious. I didn't realize Dorian sent Oberyn to his death, I figured they were arrogant enough to believe Oberyn would survive. But Dorian Martell is someone willing to sacrifice even his family if he got what he wanted. Personally, I thought he'd willing sacrifice his children to avenge his sister, but he wouldn't sacrifice his brother. I realize I was wrong about that
there is still the fact that tywin shitted the hell out of his arse for a very long time when tyrion found him
Do you think That tywin had previously request from Cercei that that she not use the mountain
I have a question I wanted to ask since last video why did they have to know that Jeoffrey was going to be murdered what if they expected for Oberon to be on trial for tywin murder by poisoning? Please answer me :)
because murdering Tywin before stripping him of all he held dear wasn't their plan...they wanted to implicate Tywin in the murders of Elia and her children, and planned to get that confession/implication out of the Mountain in a trial by combat...said implication of Tywin is useless if Tywin is already dead
14:21 hanged*
"Hanged, Ami. Your father was not a tapestry." - Mariya Darry
Awesome ones... I definitely need a re-read to spot much of what you highlighted. Keep up the good work. I have a request though, will you do videos on Patchface's monologues once you're done with Doran Martell?
Patchface is a topic we definitely want to cover, but we have a few other topics we want to do first
Gave it a like before the video even started. Cuz I knew it was gonna be awesome like always. 😊
much appreciated...we're really happy about this one
During the show’s wedding reception scenes, as Joffrey is acting like a young Mad Aerys, Tywin indeed looks like he wants to kill his nephew. Joffrey broadcasted his insanity for the aristocracy of the Seven Kingdoms. Had Joffrey not been poisoned, Tywin surely would have removed him.
awesome content
I don't see how that author's annotation has anything to do with whether or not Tywin was poisoned with Widow's Blood. We know from Tyrion's POV that Tywin had the chief symptom of Widow's Blood poisoning, namely, severe constipation, at the time of Tywin's death.
Also, Oberyn, despite his claim, does not actually try to implicate Tywin when he's fighting the Mountain. He spends the fight trying to make the Mountain admit his own crimes, and from Arianne's words later, this seems to be about setting up Cersei for her lie about the Mountain's being dead, when she implies that the Martells expect to see the "eight foot tall" Mountain again in the near future, despite his being poisoned by Oberyn.
So it certainly seems that Oberyn poisoning Tywin works within the story text. Plus, this sort of death by poison is exactly the MO of the Martells' concept of vengeance, being an extremely painful end, and being at the hand of Oberyn himself instead of a swift beheading by another executioner. Also, there is basically no chance that Tywin would face justice even if the Mountain had implicated him, so it makes no sense for him to care about implicated Tywin. Oberyn already knows Tywin is guilty.
It also seems very likely that the Martells are behind Joffrey's poisoning, probably by Shae's hand.
Shae is a very weird character, and is very likely a Sand Snake (probably Sarella, since she's the only one we haven't seen in person yet). Shae specifically demonstrates one of Martin's pet peeves of fantasy writing, namely having a low-born peasant talk back to nobility far above her station. He has an old interview where he rather loudly complains about that sort of thing, about how the low-born girl would be raped or beaten for insolence in a feudal system (which isn't actually accurate of a Chivalric Society, but it's what Martin believes in any case).
So either Martin violated his own rule, or Shae's unpeasantlike behaviors were a result of a high-born lady forgetting her place and nearly blowing her cover. Which mirrors what we see with Arya and later Sansa/Alayne.
The state of his body at his funeral was the only piece of compelling evidence that he was poisoned
"Widow’s blood, this one is called, for the color. A cruel potion. It shuts down a man’s bladder and bowels, until he drowns in his own poisons.” - Grand Maester Pycelle at Tyrion's trial, giving a detailed explanation of only one of the various poisons found in Oberyn's possession, a poison that causes a slow, drawn out death by constipation.
Oberyn outright implies to Tyrion when visiting his cell, that Tywin is already poisoned.
“Your father,” said Prince Oberyn, “may not live forever.”
Something about the way he said it made the hairs on the back of Tyrion’s neck bristle.
Oberyn even says "Valar morghulis" in passing, a reference to the Faceless Men, who so often kill in ways that appear accidental or natural, like a poison that shuts down the bowels.
Then, after Tyrion kills his father while the man is sitting on the privy, Martin has him specifically note that Tywin's bowels let loose upon death, giving off a godawful stink, which rather implies Tywin was constipated and is a weird thing for someone to think about after assassinating one's father.
Also, it seems oddly in keeping with Martin's weird sense of humor to have Tyrion actually help his hated father by saving him from a long, drawn out death, by putting him out of his misery.
As to Tywin's funeral, that is almost certainly Martin making a reference to the infamous funeral of William the Conqueror, who ruptured his intestines while riding a horse and died. And then actually exploded at his funeral, spraying body fluids over the crowd and sending everyone fleeing from the smell.
Where do you get the author annotations from?
The annotated iBooks
What I don't get is that when Cersei is being tried by the faith of the Seven she isn't able to use Robert Strong as her champion because the kingsguard is required to serve as a champion in matters regarding to the king, but for some reason for this trial they are able to use the mountain when he's not in the kingsguard.
Love your videos btw
I'm so excited to watch
Thank Balerion
I know this is unrelated to the video but i was wondering have you guys thought of covering anything of the blackfyer rebellion and if you did what would you say about it
we will likely cover it when we continue our lies of the andals series
OOTGH!!!
Yay
Video suggestion on what Qyburn did to the Mountain after his fight with the viper
it has to have been some sort of necromancy...how he did it, I don't know
The Order of the Green Hand Well I recently found a video by a youtuber bridge4 that talks about what Qyburn did to the Mountain and it was interesting.
Huge fan of your videos! Had a question for you do you think Brienne_of_Tarth is pretty meris? Her description sounds like brienne cuz bitter literally chewed her cheeks off! She is six feet tall and earless, wit a slit nose, deep scars in both cheeks and really cold eyes. She is blonde.
Rshawtwa wasn't Meris a villain character or maybe I am not familiar with her? But Brienne is supposed to he honorable and acts like a knight unlike most knights we met
Thanks Rshawrta. I don’t think so. Meris seems to have been with the Windblown for years
dang it.. I have to wait until I get off work in order to watch this. I'm sure it will be good though.
I know I told you this a week or two ago but your name makes me laugh every time it pops up
haha... thank you.. love your videos by the way.. I had to go back and watch a few of your old ones.. great work.
Thanks.
Tywin is the true king..he's a boss.
Good vid
Awesome video, as usual. Lol
This borthers me..how can ser gregor stand for joffrey when gregor isnt a kingsguard..I tjought only kg could stand for royalty
I’m not sure if it’s actually a law. Baelor Breakspear fought in a trial by seven without any KG against a few KG
There is no law but yes it might make sense for KG to fight for Joffrey... But who?
allyria stark its just in the feast fot crows.cersi makes a big deal that it must be a kings guard that fights in trial by combats when defending a member of the royal family..but tywin makes his own laws ..because hes the mighty tywin..
james taylor yeah when it comes to herself but in Joffrey's situation it's Cersei herself who says Gregor will fight for Joffrey
Olenna's bae
Aww yiss! This is some next level shit.
thank you...we try
Pycelle jorah and Jon conigton are the biggest fanboys in this series
Don't forget Jaime, he's the biggest of them all!
Anyone who calls LF a friend is being used xD
Doran and Oleena smarter than that like to trust LF
He did business with Littlefinger. He respected Littlefinger. But Doran Martell never trusted Littlefinger.
That trial scene is so emotional on the surface, but wow now I have to go back and read it again with this new insight!
They do say that gout is a rich man's disease so the martells claiming poverty should already be BS
Then he said "no wonder you don't have it" so does that mean oberyan knows the lannisters are broke
Great video I really liked the Pycelle part he thought Tywin was the best ruler ever ... and I agree with him
A good add in is, with Martells wealth, it would explain LFs seemingly easy capacity for big picture elaborate expenditure. You don't go from zero to hero just like that, you require money to make money. It would make sense if Dorans bankrolling
I'm not downplaying Baelishs feats economically with how he's amassed vast wealth via investment / speculation / trade etc. but he did come from an impoverished house and had fallen out of favor with Lord Tully by that point
In a LF video they pointed out how Baelish has created dozens of silly sounding jobs with people that do not exist so he can steal money from the crown while that bordell serves as an explanation for his wealth.
Oh yeah, we've got no doubt LF is swindling financially from the crown coffers and has been doing all sorts of shady shit as Master of Coin.
Tyrion noticed discrepancies and got a headache looking at income / expenses of the IT, and couldn't make sense of it all in the short while he had to look into it
The amount of money hes used to pay people off or buy their loyalty is an extensive list. he's got his hands in cookie jars everywhere.
the revenue streams he was producing under Robert is telling as well, especially when it's told Robert was pretty much beggaring the realm with all his expenses.
we can reasonably suspect that cashflow the Iron Throne recieves from Baelish would stop producing once Martell plans grew to fruition and the chess pieces are all set. Cersei was using Lannister gold to fund everything in Feast if i recall correctly
if the martells are really peddling in flesh, its only a hop and skip to bankrolling LF's prostitutes. Heh, thats almost a money laundering scheme in itself
Exactly. The Martells are Baelish's bank, in the way that the Lannisters (and Bravosi Iron Bank) have been the bank to the Realm. The difference being, Littlefinger knows how to make money and also deliver the political gains the Martells desire as a return on their investment.
24:50 Oh, that's quite normal. I also have a brain aneurysm whenever Cersei says anything(I'm 340 something pages into AFFC right now and probably would have had my head explıde if not for Kevan).
Always worth the wait; Doran and Littlefinger being in league with each other makes a lot of sense. Well done, love the QoT and Breaking Bad pics :)
we used to use a lot of pop culture but people didn't get it half the time and it seemed like it was more trouble than it was worth, but last week we were talking about Heizenburging the QoT and thought it would be hilarious so we went for it
It’s amazing how many details you guys found on a character I thought wasn’t completely flushed out and yet it now seems I may have been mistaken. Little Finger and Doran, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
thank you
Gift of Oberyn and the story he told made me think it was Martells that posined Joffrey but let Olenna believe they were the one who did that, and by putting the blame on them made Olenna bound to Littlefinger, I always saw her as a possible Lady Greenhand now how this will affect things?
Guys...I think Brienne was not dead by hanging...she actually stopped and she even sent a letter to Jaime and Jaime even agreed to come meet her ..this was when Jaime got a letter from cersei asking for his help...he choose Brienne ask for help and came
Let’s do this!! Thanks for the great content guys.
I love how your videos tie into each other. You guys are clearly on to something in regards to the bigger picture.
Two questions: Your intro and outro music is so epic. Was it something that you guys stumbled upon, or did you have someone compose it for you?
Second question: Is there a chance that you will ever make a video about the Tyrells? Their house doesn't seem to get any love. I'm curious what they might be scheming now as their alliance with the Lannisters is falling apart. I keep thinking that Loras wasn't hurt as badly on Dragonstone as the reports say or that the hurt one wasn't him at all. I just can't figure out what the Tyrells would get out of this treachery, but maybe you guys can shed some light.
thank you...our music is something we bought, and we probably will do some Tyrell videos as some point...we're obviously more interested in the Gardeners than them, but they do seem destined to play a relatively large role moving forward so we would be derelict of our duties if we didn't cover them at some point...we definitely have a few topics in mind that we plan on covering before that though, like Euron, Patchface, another Littlefinger vid or two, Varys and Illyrio, but somewhere in the middle of all that dense material, the Tyrells might fit in there nicely as a break from all that scheming
Camelia Berghean I can certainly see the Tyrell attempting to get on the Aegon train what with their alliance falling apart.
But what about Dany I mean couldn't loras marry her instead
Wolfsbane Alphas I wouldn't be surprised if the Tyrells threw their lot in with everyone, then just wait around and finally give their full support to the seeming victor. Loras is a sworn Kingsguard, but since Joffrey established a precedent by releasing Ser Barristan from his duties... who knows. They could attempt marrying her to Willas, but we all know that Dany likes a bit of fire in her men. Loras would fit the bill if she didn't see right through his preferences. Then again, I really wonder what Loras is up to, since I can't really imagine him as a skilled negotiator.
Great video guys!
Have you noticed that, when Doran sends the Sandsnakes to King's Landing, he first says that, "Dorne still has friends at court" and then tells Lady Nym *one page later* that he needs "an ear at court". So what now? Does he have friends there or not? Well, maybe he doesn't have friends in the Small Council anymore, with Little Finger and Oberyn gone. That's why.
He also casually first
sent a person who hates the Lannisters because they killed his sister to a city full of Lannisters;
then,
he sends a person who hates the Lannisters because they killed her father to a city full of Lannisters.
Okay.
Nym being the daughter of Oberyn also is sure to annoy the Tyrells since Oberyn crippled Willas years back.
Btw. I wonder what the Faith might do to Tyene when they find out she isn't a maiden anymore and tends to poison people. Either they will kill her or welcome her as one of their own. The Andals never poisoned people, right? Oh wait, they did.
Potatosti tyene is not maiden who took her verginity?
It is heavily implied. Tyene and Arianna nearly had sex with Andrey Dault when they were really young, which I'd say is around 14 or 15. Arianna is around 23 or 24 during A Dance with Dragons, iirc. Tyene is the same age (which is why they are this close). Why would Tyene who was willing to have sex with ~14 years not find anyone to lose it to in the next 10 years?
Potatosti i see well there is something interesting here that arianna and tyene are close to each other so even though i hate the tv show don't you think that the fate of arianna and tyene are little bit spoiled in the show ellaria(character based on arianna) and tyene got captured by cercei who poisoned tyene and made elaria watch her die slowly
So it's grrm thing two close people watching themselves die and can't do nothing to stop it one is poisoned the other is let to starve to death
I’m guessing the hidden dagger is Shae?
you'll get your answer next week
I'm going to assume Shae is the hidden dagger shot in the dark here but I think that's where you're going with this
no comment...until next week
The Order of the Green Hand I will let you handle it sensei.
Hey Order of the Green Hand theirs a story in DCU that's about a Hero called the crow in which he is killed a magical crow revies the hero is capable of resurrecting people who have been unjustly murdered and/or have left behind a terrible sadness that prevents their soul from resting, so that person may be able to seek vengeance on the person or people responsible for their death and suffering. DO you think maybe the Three eyed crow is actual a good being just serving justice and vengeance for all the crimes that the Andals and all other people of the world have done?
nice job
Always thought hotath was a slave not only by what you have said but it was the oranges that convinced me. Why would the head of guards need to pick up fallen fruit and the way he eats and savours them makes it sound as if this is a rare occurrence and something he has to steal and eat in secret. Love the vids and with house of dragon on its time to dust off the tin foil hat again. 💖🏴💖
Personally, I don't think Doran Martel is actually interested in justice or vengeance. I think he's a sociopath who is using it as an excuse to advance his own personal power. It doesn't change the theory all that much because his plan would be the same either way, but should a time come when Doran has to choose between vengeance and his own power, I definitely know which one he'll choose.
And who are you the proud Lord said, that I must bow so low?
Only the blood of a better coat, that's all the truth I'll know.
In a coat, a black, a coat of red, the Dragon still has fire. And Fire is hot, and strong my Lord, stronger than a lion's claws.
And so he spoke, and so he spoke, that Lord of Lannister, but now the flames scream o're his halls with no one there to hear, yes now the flames, scream o're his halls, and no more lions there to hear.
"Snatched the life out of Cersei's dumb ass." I'm screaming. Why is your following not larger?
7:48: Jessie of House Pinkman.
Cersei thinks this is great, Tywin is pissed I think we all know what that means.
You guys just never stop being good. Thank you for another well reasoned and excellent video.
thank you for watching
At this point I'm more excited for the next book just so we have more material for you two to make more videos on than I am for the book itself!
I get more and more bitter by the day waiting for TWOW...I don't know how the people who started reading the series in the 90s do it...we're so impatient that we ended up with a UA-cam channel because we needed the answers and spent so much time trying to figure out what was going to happen that we ended up thinking that we should figure out how to make videos to share what we thought we figured out
Isn't it overly complicated to have Tyrion as a part of this plot? The most obvious suspect is Oberyn himself, who would then demand trial by battle and get his confession from Gregor Clegane implicating Tywin, and get away with the assassination for free. The Tyrells would have had to keep quiet because Baelish tricked Olenna into joining the conspiracy. A Baelish-Martell alliance controls Dorne, the Riverlands, and the Vale, and has Myrcella Baratheon and Sansa Stark in their possession as well.
the reason we feel Tyrion getting framed has to be part of the deal is that in order for them to know Joffrey was going to die, which they certainly seemed to have known, they would have to be friends with Littlefinger, who knew they were framing Tyrion for it, and it seems unlikely that if he was going to tell Doran they were going to kill Joffrey, he would also tell him he was going to frame Tyrion
I really like the George quote at the end of the video. It is a murky picture. It seems like an extra variable to frame Tyrion in this way. Doran/Oberyn, Olenna, and Littlefinger get what they want whether Oberyn, Tyrion, Dontos, or the waiter is the culprit. If Tyrion had just played ball and gone to the Wall, only Tywin benefits.
Maybe Tywin really wasn't sleeping with Shae, and she was just put there to send Tyrion over the edge to kill his father? But the idea was to take everything from Tywin and then kill him.
Maybe shae an agent of the three eyed crow or some other third faction that benefits from all this
It's not that contrived or convoluted once you consider that Cersei's involvement all but ensures Tyrion will be suspected and accused by her unless Oberyn pops up and confesses while Joffrey is gasping his last.
Love the direction you're going with this, you've given me a new perspective on the dornish story line. While I love this story line and all of your videos, one of my favorite "factions" in westeros is Euron's iron born. The Forsaken chapter in particular from w.o.w. is especially interesting to me. Im hoping there is more coming about the iron born and this chapter in particular. Needless to say I am anxiously awaiting said video. Anyway I appreciate all your efforts and thanks for giving me your insight into ASOIAF
Euron is definitely on the shortlist of topics we want to cover when we're done with Dorne
Seth Huntley my faction is STANNIS THE MANNIS except for when he is Stannis the fuck up actually know that I think about I'm more on his side cuz he is probably going to help Jon out and now that I think about it all his good decisions come from Jon or Davos.