The Difference Between the Victim of a Narcissist and a Narcissistic Victim
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- Опубліковано 4 тра 2024
- This video answers the question: How does one tell the difference between the victim of a narcissist and a narcissistic victim? This question requires a little bit of explanation.
The victim of a narcissist would be someone who is not narcissistic was exposed to narcissism.
The narcissistic victim is a person who is narcissistic and who claims to be a victim of a narcissist. Support Dr. Grande on Patreon: / drgrande
Narcissism:
There are two types of narcissism: With grandiose narcissism we see characteristics like being extroverted, socially bold, self-confident, having a superficial charm, being resistant to criticism, and being callous and unemotional. Vulnerable narcissism is characterized by shame, anger, aggression, hypersensitivity, a tendency to be introverted, defensive, avoidant, anxious, depressed, socially awkward, and shy.
Narcissistic personality disorder is a Cluster B personality disorder in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual. It has nine symptom criteria, five of which are required for a diagnosis.
1: Grandiose sense of self-importance
2: Fantasies
3: Special or unique
4: Requires excessive admiration
5: Sense of entitlement
6: Manipulative
7: Lacks empathy for others
8: Often envious
9: Arrogant attitudes or behaviors
American Psychiatric Association. (2013). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (5th ed.). Arlington, VA: Author.
They do things to provoke you and when you react angrily, they use it against you. You were so on point with this.
Oh yes, so true! On top of that, there's also the fact that you don't react in order to be considerate and me to not take the inaccurate crap they say seriously thinking maybe they'll modify their behaviour for the better. But they don't. And to top it off, they then accuse you of being 'phony' about your reactions! It doesn't matter which way you go, they just want to act out their narrative no matter that it's them who are initiating the gaslighting, the lies, and especially, the protection. Narcs are all shallow phony hypocrite liars.
Kay Child of God ~
+ Sirius Lee ~
What you brought up ( per Dr G.) is so important! It is to me, anyway.
Are they? Aren't they? & if they don't show other traits "as much" but this particular one! The one thing that they drone on & on about! Like a dog with a bone!
& It could be about anything at all! The subject itself never matters ( it seems anyway) of course it's likely a bit of a sore subject but it doesn't need to be,.. they'll make it one!
Bc it's the drill, drill, drilling!
Over & over,. hour after hour!
Until finally!!! You pop! Then,...
Whoop, there it is!
Now YOU look like the out of control crazy bla bla "fill in the blank"
If you can't find your way around it, out of it, away from it? & they continue to persist? It could be 18 hours of letting it go! Letting it slide! Let it fly by! Ignore, move on etc,. Whatever? It doesnt matter!
You finally reacted!
And They got what they wanted!
So Are they? Or Aren't they narcissistic? In & of itself per this conversation from Dr. G,. it is a narcissistic trait,. Whether they are full blown high on the spectrum or not who knows? But this is taxing, you feel stupid for letting yourself be trapped,.. AGAIN!
They CAUSE a problem,..
Then blame the one with the justified anger,.
& It just doesnt matter,.
The satisfaction I percieved the last time I saw this reaction / addiction satisfied made me so furious,. I asked if they'd like some pop corn with that entertainment,.
That little Mona Lisa smirk dipped a bit,.
But its not worth it,.
Pure evil...
Having been married to a Narcissist for twelve years, and having an adult daughter who has BPD, I think they are both RAGE Disorders and both are definitely people you hope you'll never,
EVER meet!!! They will destroy you as the person you were when and before the two of you ever met! I got out from under the narcissist by divorcing him, but I have talked to my daughter endlessly about her issues - and in spite of this, she still has zero and insight about herself!!! She has zero friends and only two relatives left who will speak to her (myself and
one of her sisters.) I feel so very sad for her - her life is a Shakesperian tragedy, and has been practically from birth!! But I know it's not my fault - and my three other children are completely normal and that's a major blessing!
I shudder to think what my life would have been like if all four kids had inherited the same malevolent genes this one child did! Because of the futility of helping her to any degree, I have stopped trying to help her. The best thing I ever did for her was convincing her to get a nursing license in her twenties! At least she can support herself! But everything else is a mess!!! Not one
romantic relationship has been stable, and she goes into unimaginable rages very frequently. But I remind myself that I don't have to be near her any more (except once in a long while,) and
NEVER her bio dad, except maybe on Christmas and Easter when the family gathers. I'm very lucky!
@@nancyayers6355 I wouldn’t write her off. Can you imagine what it feels like when normal to you is everyone else’s abnormal? Do you know how lonely that is? She is your daughter and you exposed her to be raised by a malicious father figure. Some of that is you. It’s not just genes some of that is upbringing. If he is as bad as you say he is then you exposed her to him for 12 years which is almost her entire childhood. I’ve been there. Her life is ruined and your response is “not my fault”
Is it totally weird that I watch Dr. Grande's videos everyday as a coping skill? Something about his voice is so soothing and he is able to express empathy for people with mental illness while still being super analytic/scientific. Who wants him to release an audiobook?
@Jessica- Dr. Grande has a podcast as well: truecrimepsychologyandpersonality.podbean.com/
It’s called True Crime Psychology and Personality by Dr. Todd Grande.
@@rejaneoliveira5019 Thank you for mentioning Dr. Grande's podcast! I didn't know about it, and it sounds too interesting to pass up. :)
ReligioHominiLupus- You are most welcome! Enjoy:)
@@rejaneoliveira5019 Thank you! :)
@@rejaneoliveira5019 Awesome! Thanks so much! I will definitely listen.
If you grow up around narcissism, you can develop a personality disorder that involves narcissism to a problematic degree. I do think it is possible to change.
Some are victims, and some are also narcissistic. However, if someone is too far gone with narcissism and denial, they are less likely to improve or change, rather than someone who somehow starts to see their own patterns, becomes self aware, and then truly wants to change.
That is just my take on it from my personal experiences. Great video, as always, Dr. Grande. :)
So true. And I think because it works out to their benefit most times, that is another contributing factor as to why they don't seek change..
True. I have narcissistic tendencies around my behavior, my whole family has these traits. Fortunately, I'm working on that with therapists for a year already and changes are present!
It's tough because I am an abuse victim from my childhood and teens, and I think many of the narcissistic tendencies are a way of trying to assert thyself and distance from humiliation, so this narcissism is kind of built on basic human right - to not be humiliated and be treated fairly "equally".
I am very curious if there really are some root "evil" narcissists, for whom it's just flattery to be a narcissist, but having no self-esteem issues. For me, it always seemed like a fight for some lacking resource.
@@maksymilianpodgorski7525 I'm narcicistic and masochistic at the same time. Used to be really insecure and vulnerable narcicist, but now, I embrace my inferiority and enjoy it, as a novel experience. Humiliation is something I don't mind, or even enjoy, as long as it does not stand in the way of me achieving my goals.
Alisha yes
@@maksymilianpodgorski7525 you will be fine because you see those traits. We all have personality flaws of some kind. It's when you do nothing about them that it becomes a true problem.
People with narcissism can act very immature.
Excellent video!👌🏼
This is probably the most comprehensive and detailed psychology channel on all of UA-cam.
I agree
It's the best.
We need to develop narcissism to defend ourselves from narcissists. These traits are called boundary setting under such circumstances or healthy narcissism. It's a shame, though. I for one have sacrificed the better angel of my nature in preference to narcissism. I physically relocated to rehabilitate myself from the personality swap phenomenon.
Absolutely relate. I definitely grew narccissistic traits and I felt myself get sick too. My mother did the same with father.
Yup being w my narc, salesman hubby makes me secretly fear I am one also. It's taken a lot of research and self examination to figure out I'm in survival mode from his narc tendencies, not a narc myself.
For me I had a narcissist train me to be more narcissistic under the guise that I needed more self confidence, which perhaps I did, but instead of getting more confident I got disgusted with the way I started to act
This is 100 percent true. I have done this and I have always felt guilty, while at some crucial times I have lied. The presupposition that I was/am a narcissist is still intact, because I want to know more. Thanks for this.
Behaving narcissisticly and having healthy boundaries are way different. In my experience going the other way is not ok.
Thank you for these videos. I enjoy them very much. Being a victim of a narcissist, I am just flat burned out on it. It took a lot of learning and understanding and is very exhausting to come to grips with it. These videos help with the little niggles of doubt and what ifs that I turn over in my head from time to time. I feel lucky in that my therapist said people who have been victims basically choose one of two paths, they become narcissistic themselves or become more empathic. I came out of the mess with the latter. Boy, is that a great feeling.
I’m pretty sure that person B is not a narcissist because they actively wanted to know if they were...
A true narcissist would deny it and bring up anything you’ve ever done that was questionable. Diversion is their game.
God bless person B. ❤️
Sadly not true. Have you heard of covert narcs? Pretending to be di shy and demure and oh so full if self doubt? They are creepier than overt narcs who deny and flip and deflect and blame
Bz Mama I still question myself oftenly .
@@howard1beale Good point!
@@howard1beale they're not pretending, they can actually be shy and have social anxiety- BUT, they still have grandiosity, just shattered. It doesn't mean they hide it on purpose, but it can't be seen at a first glance. They're sad because they think the world owes them everything, they're sad because they think everyone around them is stupid, nobody sees how special they are, etc. But it's not really hidden, if you listen to it.
@@zerofeedback7533 I really dont need a total stranger (= you) to" put me straight" here. You have absolutely no idea how much experience I've had with these types, but apart from that, I MY opinion they are faking. They are smirking behind their nice little "poor pathetic me act".
If you get taken in by it that's your look out...
I was always taken aback by the ‘..YOU ARE’ response. Could never understand the childishness of it. Always left me stunned and questioning myself. Even these phrases seem universal (-I’m in the UK) Keep safe Dr Grande!
I can relate...sigh.
''..YOU ARE'' means ''yes I am'', nothing more: a optional response to that could be: I'm glad you admit it, thank you for your honesty....
Except.. What if the narcissist accuses you of being a narc first - naturally you would respond "you are"? That doesn't make you childish or a narcissist. It means you feel the other person is projecting their issues onto you, and you are calling it out.
this seems to be very common with the bpd crowd as well, although they usually accuse others of being narcissists or antisocial
💯 mate, from my experience
I've learned to 1.) not identify with DSM diagnoses, 2.) not play psych doctor and diagnose people in my imagination, and most importantly 3.) not hang around with people who are so bad I wonder if they could be considered ASPD or NPD.
@@Michael-lc8yl 1. i make a conscious effort not to allow my behavior to conform to the diagnoses assigned to me; 2. they were diagnosed by professionals, and we met in a group specifically for people with cluster b personalities, hence why they were open about their diagnoses; 3. as i've tested for aspd and npd, i tend to associate with likeminded individuals on occasion so that we can discuss personal issues specific to our situations and find understanding, and also to discuss possible coping methods. also, they don't bother me
I wonder if bpd could be caused by abusive narc parents or parent?
Yeah because Borderlines receive so much knee jerk abuse automatically on YT, behaviour that comes across as sadistic, Narcissitic or Anti Social. Its very abusive to automatically consider Borderlines abusive.
Coffee time again with Doctor Grande. From a very wet and windy UK. 💕
TRUE!
oh dear, think you said the same weather yesterday? i'm near Edinburgh, it's really not bad here at all. wee bit rain yesterday, wee bit today. but no wind and the sun is currently trying to appear from behind the clouds. not warm at all though, barely into double figures. hope it improves for you soon :)
Stay dry!
Same here.
@@jonnylumberjack6223 I've heard its beautiful there. 🙂 Would love to see it one day. I'm in midwest America.
I needed to hear this today 💜💜💜 My mother said a very mean Narc thing this morning, everything in my life is a mess, it's pouring rain and won't stop for a couple days. Yesterday was such a great day. I was actually in a good mood for the first time in over a year. I tried to let her comment not get to me, I turned on a light inside to create brightness, played happy music, smelled a honeysuckle candle, and started working on things to keep my mind busy. It didn't work. That voice (her voice) told me I couldn't do anything, I'm not good enough, I can't do anything right, I'm not capable, no one likes me, etc, etc, etc. I started ruminating on all my failures and things I wish happened that I didn't get to experience. Couldn't see my computer screen thru the tears within 2 minutes. I saw this video in my notifications and wasn't sure if it was going to be helpful or make my mood worse, but it has definitely helped 😊😊😊
Waking up to the reality of life is so hard. It feels like things are never going to work out. Like this is just the way life is, it sucks and it's going to suck forever, nothing I can do about it, I can't change someone else's personality, nor can I change my own. It's the hardest thing in the world to try to be selfish enough to care about myself and my goals... this woman has made me feel like I don't have the right to breathe, let alone accomplish anything.
You are the only psychologist that has been able to help me clearly see what she is, and what other people are. That was a rough wake up call, but it is what I needed to hear. I really appreciate the calm, straightforward, factual approach to these topics. Everyone else just goes on and on about feelings, and how Narcs destroy people, they're so evil, blah blah blah. That doesn't help anything. This does. Thank you so much!!! 💜💜💜
{hugs} Easier said than done, I know, but whenever you get attacked like that, know that it is the other projecting their own self hatred onto you, because they really think these things about themselves. They feel powerless to change themselves, but feel a sense of power in messing up your happiness and sense of self worth. Rather than let those rotten words bring you to tears, just KNOW that you are a smart, strong being that can have compassion for such a wounded one, and love yourself for being able to have that compassion in the first place. Be grateful that you weren't born with their self loathing. TC
Oh my dear, when I hear that parents treat their children this way, I'm just flabbergasted. Parents are supposed to show their children unconditional love! Please understand that, although you will never be able to change your mother's behaviour, you can change your own reaction to her behaviour. The psychologist I went to after being on the receiving end of narcissistic abuse at work, described these encounters as a dance. She asked me the question - what would happen if you just did not dance? I was practically suicidal (not joking!) when I went to see her, but this really changed my life. It takes some practice to implement, but the first time the narcissist tries to involve you in this vicious cycle and you just choose not to dance is hugely liberating. I know it's extremely difficult to do with a parent, but sometimes we have to think about our own mental health. Don't expect her to change but that cannot stop you from changing your behaviour. Good luck!
Can you do a video between the difference of seeking for attention and seeking for validation
That's a really great and useful suggestion 👍
À
Ahhhhh I remember when ex accused me of gaslighting him. I didn't really know what that meant so I looked up the definition and thought hmmmm... that sounds a lot like what HE's doing. Unfortunately that little light that went off wasn't enough and he really managed to convince me I was the problem. And to be fair, some of my behaviors were problematic and I've been working to correct them. However he consistently refused to look at his own behaviors, and eventually I has to throw in the towel and put myself first.
Good for you. A true narc cant/won't accept help of any kind. They are perfect in their own mind. They are the shit on your shoes.
This description with scenarios & examples was so helpful. Thank you!
I think I need to watch this 3 more times. That was complex, your efficiency in delivering concepts blows me away!
Thank you Dr. Grande for this video. It was spot on. This is now one of my favorite channels 🙂
Sounds like me and my mom. I called her out and then she called me the narcissist. Sometimes I get worried that I am one... I know I have some traits, though. Thank you for another great video, Dr. grande.
uh, same here. She made me question my own sanity. and also I have problems managing anger so I often feel that I'm the narcissist. and also the fact that the child of a narcissist parent is most likely also a narcissist- makes me think maybe I am also a narcissist. I think it's best to go to a counselor, we can't live like this forever, question our own sanity and doubt our value. if you keep going on like that, you're literally dying.
@@irmawatifebriani8459 did you find someone to help?
I feel like narcissists almost force one to be pathologically self-focused: "Am I really that way?" "DID I do that?" "How can I fix this?" etc. At least, that's how it plays out for me. Not sure if it makes living with me any better than if I were more traditionally (?) narcissistic. :-/
I feel like if you are truly worried that you are a narcissist then you most likely are not.
Dr Grande, do narcissists really lack insight about their behavior? I always have the suspicion they know who they are, but are mortally afraid of others seeing them in clear light. That's why they are so defensive, when outed. At least some gave me such vibes, & pretty strong ones.
In my case, I think my spouse knew his behavior was unacceptable- if not, why did it always happen behind closed doors? But he never accepted that he was responsible for making the choice to behave that way- he always blamed me for his horrible choices. He even told me once that his behavior was not a choice. That is disordered thinking.
Nancy L Yes, same scenario with me, my narc husband always did his smearing of me behind closed doors, which makes me realize that these narcs know what they’re doing is wrong. And, everything that went wrong was always my fault. Narcs are just horrible people, and they make other people’s lives miserable, and even dangerous. Narc’s brains are literally wired differently than normal people. They’re monsters, who thrive on creating chaos.
that's the million dollar question, isn't it, Ipsita? It's kind of like "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" There is definite sinister premeditation to some of what I've witnessed or overheard my brother and his wife doing. But, I also agree that the truth (either hearing it or telling it) is SO unnaturally painful to them, that their denial goes into a crevasse SO deep, even they can't see that far.
@@Nancy-yw1rr I believe it isn't a conscious choice but is conditioned into them. My mother is a narcissist and a compulsive liar, and I believe her father was before her. So, my brother got it from her, though he is much worse than her. The problem is when they know they're doing it but choose NOT do anything to change it.
That's what all the experts say. The narc's mask must not come off or they'll melt.
Finally! I’ve been wondering about this myself. Thank you!!
BTW, I got a DSM and have been reading it. You stand alone as citing sources, and you cite them accurately.
I’m definitely looking your Patreon channel up. Glad to know you teach as well. There’s hope for this generation.
PS: The above isn’t praise; it’s weight on your shoulders. Carry on smartly!
I will try to improve and watch my behaviour, the way I treat people will come back to me in some form.
I’ve been waiting for a video about this. ✌🏻 thanks Dr Grande
This has opened my eyes, thank you Doctor Grande
I really like your videos on narcissism, it’s a rather complex issue, in my opinion. Thanks Dr. Grande. 👍
Fantastic video Dr Grande!! *Thank you kindly*
🐛📚🦋
Such a difference. Thank you for sharing this Dr 🙌🏼
This was particularly fascinating and enlightening. Thank you.
I appreciate the new blinds in the background. This was a very good explanation. Thank You.
It's extremely hard to treat people with unhealthy, self-destructive defense mechanisms, especially when they have issues with impulsivty and respecting boundaries. Thank you for trying to unpack it using tools available to anyone who interacts with such people daily - very difficult and important work! As much as I might understand this problem differently, to an average person, myself included, talking is only tools available. If talking is all what we have, and this is what we have now - let's use it best we can. The thing is that if one understands that narcissism is self-defensive mechanism, it's much easier to negotiate. I prise such person, I calm them down and change topic of attention. I point out destructive elements of the approach to values that are important to them I stay warm and open and it works every time. Last thing you show to people in such state is fear, aggression, or condemnation. They need time to come down too. If course sometimes it's important to break contact, especially temporarily.
Miriam Gonczarska ~
Miriam I would truly love to hear more about how you do this?
I feel that was my choice of reaction/response honestly 70% of the time? ( I'm guessing but it's a pretty good guess)
However! That was BEFORE I knew what I was dealing with! I'm not sure how successful I'd be now?
Any further information would be MUCH appreciated!
Thanks,.
Those of course depends on power dynamics, cultural background (if religion or culture gives that person power over you, and promotes aggression, your tools are limited). I was talking more in proffecional settings or equal power dynamics, like with colleague or client although I do used it with family members and close friends too.
If you are in physical danger please seek help, it might not stop a crime minded person, who wants to take advantage of you, or person who has nothing to lose, or a racist (although I used it successfully during racist attack - saving both attacked and attacker lives - in Auschwitz there was a polish neo-Nazi, who attacked bus of Russian Jewish young women, and when bus with guys arrived - you understand 😂) .
It might not work when person is intoxicated (although I did use it - though sometimes with limited outcomes) or in a state of mental decline. It's not going to work with people who aren't in control of their minds and bodies...
If you are in emotional danger - seek proffecional help! This is not professional approach, it's not because been tested or evaluated.
I am sharing it with you, but please use with to your discretion.
1. capture attention: Eye contact depends on culture I use it, but I am autistic so my gaze can be pretty creepy, which is helpful. Creepy is good because catches attention of the person. Capturing person attention is very important it can be done with sound, and than pause make sure that person is listening. Making them aware of your presence. Open body language, non defensive is helpful.
2. they are most likely in fight - flight mode, which switches in very unusual ways so becomes "cognitive" - with cognitive bias turn on so logical, intellectual arguments without some emotional message aren't usually useful.
3. remembering that we are dealing with a person, not with the syndrome, not st not path (its a person not an narcissist psychopath) - sincerity not management.
4. Remove any annoying stimulus sounds, smell, light.
5. Smile or keep face positive - neutral. Control your breathing be at ease (if you mediate put yourself in that relaxed state of mind).
6. Do not come close! Behave as if you are dealing with very angry wild animal, you really want to help. Do not move rapidly. Most of abusers were beaten and have traumatic reactions to closeness.
Speak slowly clearly and positively.
7. Whatever is been said the underlying message needs to peaceful "You are important to me, you are safe, everything will be OK, you are ok, you can match my expectations, you are good enough, we are equals in impotence as beings.I have value, you heve value."(You do not want to say anything you don't believe in or you don't want sound like you speak under fear, pressure, trying to manipulate, nothing that can be used against you).
You can try to express your emotions, but it's pretty much irrelevant since person is most likely in emotional and intellectual lock-down and might not be able to turn on cognitive functions on to hear out something they can't relate to, doesn't support their thought loops will be rejected automatically. So relate everything to person like I appreciate your presence in my life/meeting/common goals, create larger context, putting things into perspective.
With Neo-Nazi I did said "you are standing on my grandparents graveyard i would appreciate if we lower our voices and behave accordingly. You wouldn't want to seem disrespectful to our deads. Polish patriots died here too." to Russian boys I said "probably you would rather avoid international incident, if you touch them, you will be viewed as the attacker - other Jewish people might be hurt as result of your actions." So good arguments do work even under extreme emotions (this was particularly difficult group of boys - some with criminal past - the strong man type).
Finding critical values for this person is extremely important.
I avoid manipulating, lying, exaggeratin, flowerly language or poetic language, metaphors, high moral ground, grandiosity. Just heart to heart. Making it about principles, not personal. Making yourself useful when comes to shared goals (unless they are criminal - find higher goals, which aren't criminal). Narcissists are often goal oriented. It's easier for someone who is autistic because I understand how they see reality, even if they try to manipulate me way I don't and can't manipulate others- I expirienced meltdowns which basically looked to the outside world like narcissistic outbursts. I had to negotiate with myself for years. Imagining that it could be you is always helpful. In order to change person long, long term stable relationship necessary. One conversation will not change long term habits or thinking patterns, attitudes or unhealthy upbringing. Do not let yourself to be manipulated into any external activity (unfortunately I am socially cluess so I was used by people to stear things). I don't know how to help with more than one part involvement - so do not ask me how to navigate mother in-law like scenarios. I am also very vulnerable, when people lie or manipulate, but they would have to be smarter than me in terms of logical, critical thinking - don't feel that someone is deceitful, but I am pretty good fact checker and bias detector so I use patterns to detect lies. So for social interactions I use social psychology or sociology, but it's very hard and time consuming. I don't have enough emotional empathy to help others with group dynamics even if I can describe them. If someone lies I say you can't convince me, but I believe that this is what your sources of information are saying. Avoiding making conflicts personal is critical (99.9 they really aren't - we are all delusional and all brainwashed by different sources, expiriences and trusting different sets of experts)... I don't know how aware narcissist are of what they doing and why they are doing it. I think everyone, especially people with neuro-diversity is on the scale from autistic mind to psychopath. Autism can look like narcissism, but it's really result of too much empathy - unhealthy way to protecting oneself, victim mentality. (more like Jesus - suffering for millions/Trump's persona). Narcissistic psychopaths, with sadistic tendencies is a different game (Dictators like Putin or some mafia style) . Cognitive empathy and moral/ideological values or money works with them best. There are attention seeking ADHD typed, hyped thrill seeking- they love compliments, love, warmth, fun (many members of subcultures even neo-Nazi). Ask them they will tell you - seriously.
What is most important to you?
- justice for protecting myself/ others (I really believe that immigrants are dangerous) - autistic type (digestive issues, chronic fatigue syndrome, allergies, dyspraxia, anxiety)
- justice for revenge, pride (minorities are taking away from my nation's resources- how dare) -psychopath (over-stimulated immune system, autoimmune issues, cancer, some heart diseases. )
- fun, good time - thrill seeking type (hormonal issues, metabolism, mania with depression, early diabetics)
They will tell you what they want you tell them how much you are willing to help and set clear boundaries.
I believe that many people who are seen as vulnerable narcissists are really autistic.
Miriam Gonczarska Good work! How would you differentiate narcissism from high-functioning autism?
Really brilliant, Dr Grande. Simple "I know you are but what am I" but with adult language can be an incredible narcissistic tool, and in a way some of what's been done to me for years.
You nailed another one. Good job!
Thank you! I need this answer!
Love your videos on narcissist my mother and aunt are and you hit bullseye for my situation here. The insight is so uncanny it makes me rethink your education.
Because I think I know more than I really do so that makes ones like you not all that. But now I'm very impressed
I've watched a few of these videos and I'm not sure if I'm a narcissist, a vulnerable narcissist or just have some issues. Some of my bad traits have been highlighted to me, I do agree I need to work on myself sometimes I just feel like I am a narcissist because there's no help available.
It feels like Narcissist/ narcissism is a buzzword these days.
Great video, keep up the good work. I liked this video.
Great video! A vulnerable narcissistic friend I used to have, accused me of not being empathetic. And then she accused me of being arrogant.. And so on and so forth. Thankfully, I've always made it a point to look at myself and evaluate what I see in order to better myself, and I knew she was projecting based on my earlier observations of her. I pointed out her behavior multiple times, and it just made her resentful of me, and created some performance anxiety on her side that strook me as very strange. I let go of that friendship, and I feel as light as a feather now.
OMG! This is happening right now! And has been for 17 years with the one I'm dealing with right now as I type this, and 20 years with another. Constant bs from both these types. Just different display of behaviour, same action. So spot on to what you're saying.
Add to that, now because you've kept it concealed from people that you're dealing with a covert narc, you're afraid no one now believes you because it's them who are lying and acting like the victim. Fortunately, some people are privately wise to their transparently phony behaviour and lying because they've innocently told me so.
Nonetheless, the non-belief from others is retraumatizing. There's also a name for it: Cassandra Syndrome.
Your very logical analysis gives clarity to answering this question. It is similar to medical students who start to believe they may have the diseases they are studying. The more I researched narcissism, the more I thought I may have the traits.
Respected doctor
Please make video about Amotivation , apathy , anhedonia.
Permanent breakdown reward system in the brain.
Thank you
I have the same or similar nihilist outlook, it is bleak, 4 sure.
Interesting
@@martcichocki5571 Might I interest you in adding existentialism to your philosophical diet? Or perhaps absurdism? :D
That'll be interesting. I'd also kinda like to know a bit about how (if at all) it ties into conditions like ADHD. There are times where it feels like my motivation is completely sapped; like, I'd look at a task, think 'yeah, I need to do that' and then I just... ehhhhh...
I wish I could know what causes it, how to avoid it, and how to counteract it when it happens. It's pretty obstructive as things now stand. It'll be especially tough if I ever wind up working from home when I finally find employment (game design).
@@hauntedshadowslegacy2826 that's poor executive function
Thank you so much for this video.
Great explanation of the difference in definition.
It's difficult to figure out who is narcissistic, A or B, when they are both adults in friendship or relationship. It becomes even more difficult when A is a parent and B is his adult child. A might have been projecting his flaws to his child for years, and now B is really struggling to see who he really is and isn't, has he actually become narcissistic himself after abuse in childhood, or is he just afraid of being like his parent (A). In this case I think there's plur between A and B. It's difficult to draw a line between individuals, at least from B's point of view. Maybe that happens often when there is projection and introjection present. I think this advice of seeking honest opinion of others is really good. It kind of works like reality testing, helping to see yourself from outside.
Thank you Dr. Grande for this video and others as well! This video was something I really needed to see. I try to figure out what happened in my own childhood, but also I study psychology, and that's why I find your videos very helpful and educative.
Yeah, this is an important topic, that I 've been thinking about for a loooong time. I never had an acceptable sounding "title" to ask for it here in this comment section. I'm glad someone else or the doctor did! 🙂 🎯
Personally one of the most shocking experiences I had in my journey through this topic (I think I've watched all the videos that the doctor made, and some after a certain time again.) , was after I had watched a vid about the pro's and con's of the grey rock technique. That was a few months ago here on this channel. Because suddenly it became very clear to me that I was treated with exactly this strategy for a long time. Thus the other person must have perceived me as a narcissist or something similar. This is an almost undescribable moment. My actions were indeed highly problematic I think, but to frame them in a narcissistic context, when they were actually motivated very differently - this made me speechless for hours. It is extremely weird.
After a while and more distance to it, I would say, yes, it is possible to frame behaviours linked to Bipolar disorder as narcissism, in the way that hypo/mania is grandiose and depression is vulnerable narcissism. It's actually super easy to see it this way! At first, I think there's an actual overlap between these both disorders. I'm sure there's high comorbidity. And they both do evolve around self esteem as a central problem, I'd say. So if you have no idea about the biochemistry underlying this disorder - and most laypeople do not have this knowledge - it's very easy to confuse these both disorders, which can massively do harm. In both directions. neither is it a good thing to take meds against Bipolar when you're in fact NPD, nor is it good in any way to treat a Bipolar individual against his/her "narcissism".
This was important for me to state, thank you sooo much for this topic and thanks for reading this, bye. 🌸
Mrs. Reluctant - Either way if people stick with a therapist they can come out of depression and improve. Two steps forward one step back. I’ve been there 7 years for extreme depression. Not continuously - but at least 3 months a year. I’m not ashamed about it. Most ppl are or will try to shame me.
@@qiuwbr091 Thank you for sharing this. There are persons who tried to shame you for this? 😱 This is a bit shocking to me. I know, it's some kind of taboo to speak about therapy - yet i never had to meet a person who did that to me. Horrific.
@@mrs.reluctant4095 Maybe it's some kind of "negative projection" in some people? They may outwardly claim it as a weakness to maintain their state of denial because somewhere in the back of their minds, they suspect they may need therapy themselves but are too scared, e.g., to take the necessary steps. I'm rambling a bit, sorry.
Anyway, I view seeking help with a therapist as a strength, because one already took the first step of admitting to oneself that help may be needed. Takes a lot of guts, imo! :)
@@religiohominilupus5259 Indeed, I've seen middle aged, life experienced people totally anxious waiting for their appointment with a psychotherapist. When asked why they are so nervous, they said something like "I don't know, how this will turn out to be" or "I've never been to a psychologist before, what happens there...?". For them psychotherapy is a strange, bizarre world where crazy and dangerous people end up which minds get brainwashed, I think. People that are totally different to them. Kind of a primal fear. Yes, I think you're right, somewhere in their subconcious minds might be something - I imagine it like a dark spot filled with shame- that let them fear, that they have to go there, that something might be seriously flawed in their own personality. Just a speculation, I try to think back when I was a child, how I viewed psychotherapy at the age of 10. I think, some people never become more mature than this...sadly. Thank you for your comment, much appreciated. 🙂
Omg! I had no idea what all this meant. Truthfully, I feel really sick right now as both me and my ex-husband have bipolar-disorder. I just pray to God that I can at least get better because heaven forbid I do to my children what I went through as a child. I can see Narcissistic behavior in myself even as I am "acting out". It is so bizarre and extremely distressing. I have branded my ex-husband a Narcissist and he is one. But now I realize that I do these things too. I need to change.
I love how you explain things
Hi Dr. Grande your videos are always great. Been turning out lots lately! Would you consider doing a mental health and personality profile on David Koresh of the Branch Davidians?
Excellent video and info from a few of the comments.
Very insightful as always
Much appreciated
thank you for this, because i was self reflecting a lot. and what was really happening was he would get upset because i was upset about something that i felt was a VALID reason for me to be upset. but we would argue for DAYS because he would spend the entire time trying to downplay what HE did. i later learned that it was called gaslighting!
This is gonna be a good one oh boy!
Thank you sir ❤
Narcissists love projection. They’re really good at projecting unto others. It’s quite entertaining to see narc rage too.
Depending on where you are in proximity to the intended target of that rage I guess.
You Rock Dr Todd! I really needed this!!! Something I've come across while researching narcissism online, is ADHD and Narcissism.
I...will soon be going for an ADHD assessment..and wondering if I should ask for a Narcissism assessment as well?
I'd been in a relationship with a man I suspect(not sure) was a narcissist, but what if he was right, and 'I' was the problem?
I look forward to Dr. Grande daily...,.hehehe. 💯
sometimes i dont know if im a narcissist or not. my mother has always had anger issues, controlled my behavior, and invaded my privacy and boundaries many times that i thought it was normal. it feels like i've learned so much of her unhealthy methods and executed them on loved ones and it tears me apart. i feel so guilty for lashing out.
Much before I realized my husband was a narcissist, he told me he thought I was a psychopath. It sounded like such a well thought out observation that I was taken aback and took some time introspecting!!! But it didn't make sense. I have very high empathy. I am asocial, but NOT antisocial. Even my response to his accusation was not how a psychopath would respond. When I pointed all this out to him, he said that my high IQ could be letting me fake a high emotional intelligence!!!
What stunned me about it was how realistically he proposed it. My immediate reaction was to question myself till I looked at the issue closely and it was completely absurd.
He was certain that I manipulated him. More introspection. I NEVER wanted to manipulate anyone, but I was also aware that he was a very... primitive person and many things were like trigger and reaction. I spent time assessing our interactions to see if I was inadvertently making him behave in specific ways. Nope. Didn't find anything. He was not able to point out anything specific either and he then blamed that on his poor emotional skills that he was not able to give exact examples!
It was basically yet another way to make me be very careful about how I spoke with him. Constant eggshells.
This led to one of the "moments" that made me realize that there was something seriously wrong with this man beyond dishonesty and desperation for attention. I pointed out to him that faking emotional empathy wasn't that easy. He calmly told me that I knew he had the emotional intelligence of a rock, but I initially believed him to be completely in love! I told him that yes, I believed him about HIS emotions, but I never experienced empathy from him. He insisted that I did. He was proud of being able to appear empathetic even though he had a "handicap". He completely believed that he presented as a very empathetic person. He never did. He always came across as someone too damaged to have bandwidth for someone else. At that point, I realized he was very very delusional and.... odd.
thank you for sharing this. This reminded me of an instance when my ex-husband told me he called the police to get me arrested (we both had restraining orders against each other at the time but I didn't break any laws) because I have never before been caught for doing wrong things. I was a drug addict in my twenties. His casual admittance of this fact actually blew my mind - talk about some seriously sadistic stuff right there. Horrifying.
I have a female friend who is married, but a pattern I've noticed is that she'll say, "MY house." MY oak tree." Even, "MY air conditioning system." It's as though her husband isn't part of the household. Very odd, but I've never asked her why she doesn't say "OUR."
My mum and grandma both do the same! It’s always ‘their’ house!
Oh boy, me and my brother! We were always at each other's throats and I've always felt like the victim of his sociopathic nonsense and never for a moment felt totally at fault. I even brought up "Wow, we really are awful to each other, aren't we? Haha!" It was my attempt to share in the nonsense and get him to admit his wrongness, but he just went on a rage about how he wouldn't be that way without my own behavior.
Sigh... Yeah.
Thank you. Indeed I was accused of being a narcissist, but not in so many words. My ex kept saying "You can't change.' I had no idea what he was talking about until later when someone else pointed out he was a narcissist and I had to begin my own self study of what narcissism was. I now realize I was most likely a victim of a vulnerable or covert narcissist.
So glad I have watched this I’ve been accused by a probable narcissist for years. They even went as far as say they worked for a social media site sieving out narcs 🤦🏼♀️😂 they even trolled me & slandered me, the list goes on then when I finally got fed up & kinda freaked as it all built up I was then accused as being crazy !
I see everything clearly now after therapy & research. Also had other relationships who gaslit, cheated, love bombed. Etc etc. I think I may be a narc magnet 😩
That happin to me..make me out to b the bad guy by setting me up to get angry..she knew how to.pull the strings. But narcism is what brought me to you dr. Grande..you helped me more then you know..thank you!! Verry good vidio!!
I am super tired tonight. I had my two hours sleep last night. This one I am going to think about as I go to sleep. This is good fodder for my brain to work through. Right now my thoughts sound like incoherent babbling about old broad who needs to snuggle with a couple of cats on the bed next to her. Peace and blessings. I will post tomorrow ,,, thank you as always as these are always very fascinating and very insightful to me. You do good homework that you pass on and I appreciate that..gail in Central Florida.
Hi Dr Grande- I enjoy your videos, especially when you review current diagnostic criteria for a specific disorder. I would really enjoy a review of how any major disorder such as schizophrenia, that had its diagnostic criteria substantially evolve through the major revisions of the DSM. Maybe you can “fill in” the history of the thinking underlying the shifts in the criteria over time. It might be a lot of work, but I don’t see anyone else offering this perspective on diagnostic criteria. When looking at any given DSM version, I have always had the feeling that there was a desire to “break nature at its joints” but there always remained a sense that distinct classifications felt slightly arbitrary.
Comment 15: Thankyou. 💝👋 Dr. Grande, you got me (caught me) and forced me to contemplate some real-time scenarios in my own life experience. I think item no. 5 is the capstone of all, as it causes one to think deeply and “know thyself” rather than try . navigate life blindly. 👍😃👍
I feel spoiled today, the sun is shining so bright.... 😊🌞Very important topic. Oh, no, don't get me wrong, the weather in the center of Germany is just as bad as it seems to be in the UK. Dark clouds, very wet and stormy. Tea time with Dr. G. 🥧🍩🥮🧁☕
Thank you
New sub here , i stumbled across your videos.....I just watched Aileen Wuornos. Thanks for them.
Very insightful video
Glad you enjoyed it
@@DrGrande Discovered your channel 2 weeks ago and I have been binge watching the videos.
It has been a productive use of my time during this lock down period.
Again, keep up the good work
Thanks! 🙂
This is a fascinating analysis and kind of mind-blowing. Will the real narcissist please stand up?
My leg 🤣
I like the discovery you mentioned, ( they will create a problem and then point it out) so true, nuts on negative behavior.... childish.. and very dangerous at the same time....depending on level the tactics are being used....
The Todd Father of this UA-cam psychology shit. Love ya man
Thanks again Dr Grande. Could you (if you haven't already) have a discussion re: the co-morbidity of AOD use problems and NPD? My reading of much literature is that there is a high correlation/prevalence of the two.
I didn’t hear this term 35 years ago. I did look up (not on the internet) passive aggressive and choleric.
So since I know this exploration is only helpful to me (or so he would think if he thought about it at all,) I’m thinking it’s a conversation that if brought up now will only backfire on me. Could he point out behaviors of mine in the past especially and get me with that? Yes. He uses any ammo I give him, twists it and throws it right back.
He would never go to counseling. It’s been suggested before. Will he accept responsibility for anything? No.
I think I’d better listen to this one again. You really got the wheels turning. Thanks.
I hope sincerely that you got out and are now happy 😊.
That's a powerful tool against a narcissist. "I am talking to you back the way you talk to me" It's not a long term solution but it's part of the breaking away process.
Being around narcissistic people only led me to discover myself. I remember, i never felt anything unsatisfactory until my narcissistic brother told me that i am not worthy. I was okay upto 2nd std. When i came into 3rd std, he came to live with us. I was habitual of thinking a lot. So, during exams, i would delay to complete the course for next day. I would ponder over everything upto 12am. Then i would study for exams upto 2am. He told me that my mind is very slow and dump because if you study upto 2am in elementary classess, you wont even sleep at night before exams in higher classes. In every possible way, he tried to convince me that i m dumb.
My narc last night literally screamed and then accused me of screaming when I remained calm because I knew he was baiting. And me remaining calm made him more upset so he cried. I knew it was another tactic so I didn’t react and he said “you won’t even hug me when I’m crying”. Then he threatened suicide by pharmaceutical method. And then he said I was cold and heartless when I didn’t react to that either. Asked if I ever had any love in my heart. Then woke up asking me to feed him and get him a drink and asked me to come lay down like nothing happened. Then the next day said I’m the reason he’s a failure 😂🤦🏻♀️
Being devasted by the knowledge you have narcissistic traits can lead to accepting narcissistic behaviour as inevitable. Particularly if you had a series of narcissistic relationships.
Great video as always Dr Grande! Would you please give your advice on how to approach a narcissist who has experienced narcissistic abuse in their past? I have a person in my life who undoubtedly suffered narcissistic abuse at the hands of their narcissistic mother, however uses this as an excuse for their own narcisisstic behaviour with very little insight into how they are mirroring the very behaviours that hurt them when they were younger.
Yes I want to know as well
Would like to know also. I had a friend like that too. We were friends for 30 years, but the past decade she kept getting worse and worse till I finally had to go no contact.
The narcissist admitting to such: The Asoh Defense is very disarming. I would say that scenario is a very sinister form of using it
Tad Wiltman wow! All the ex colleagues coming out of the woodwork? The jungle drums were obviously rumbling yesterday about a whistle blowing meeting! Chinese whispers can be very dangerous tadders! A meeting regarding ill health due to allergic reactions turns into something very different when it travels from core c to core a and b! I would say hi but I was deleted from the what’s app group! 🙋🏻♀️
so I suspect my mom is a narcissist, but what drives me almost crazy is the fact that the child of a narcissistic parent is most likely also narcissistic, making me think that I'm most likely also narcissist. I often pray that my mom will not do anything wrong, not hiding anything that makes me hurt because once I find her mistakes, making the situation very difficult. The argument will be endless and there will be no solution, hard to reason with her. And also in the end I will be the one who feel guilty and I realize it is very damaging to my mental health. maybe this is what is meant by ignorance is bliss. sometimes I pretend that I don't know to protect myself from being hurt, but sometimes I can't hold it in too long
Great video 😍 This is an extremely important topic!!! Aren't these traits similar in psychopaths though? Maybe the difference is that they realize they are narcissistic? My ex (the compulsive liar) could care less, although he knew he was extremely narcissistic.
Thank you for covering this!
Can you please do a video on Lori Alexander - The Transformed Wife? She posts videos on UA-cam and is very active on Twitter.
Yup I understand now
I been married to a narcissist for three years (well actually 2, I went from the"ashes to the fire" so to speak) but my first, had more obvious traits of it. Now, I have not seen all your videos yet, but as I experienced it, my latest was a school example of a narcissist, perhaps even a psychopat(I am not a Psy hologist , but I researts iy alot, but Your videos has made me aware of so many similar disorders.) It has been two years since we divorced. He still act as he ows me. Has full control over me, mostly through technology (wich he was full in charge over during our marriage) Somehow he's got full control over my technology. I've had 16 mobiles and three computers, all stopped working or locked, so I can't have access, in some remote way he is the "administrator" wich I realize WHEN i had access. But bo systemcontrol.. Two of my own cameras, one pro I saved a long time for, before we meet, and four printers he made useless as well. I can not go online, not make or tecieve phonecall ( I am borrowing a phone that belong to my cousin now) In today society it becomes a problem. I suffer from narcolepsy and pain in my muscles hips, back and my joint. Lately gastritis an migrain and costant infections. He knows this. I live a bit outside the city and was so depentent of the internet, since he had the car, and not always I am fit for going by buss. With internet we can get help with most of necessity. At least with a phone. He makes sure I have none He forged my handwriting countless timess and put me in debt due to it. Also he stole my digital ID. During all our marriage he put spyware on my phones and read my diary, my e-mails, sms, all my private fb messages and managed to secretly record all my telephonecalls. I found out aftetward I am locked out from all my social accounts. F B, Twittet instagram.But also all my mail, online shops, Linkl, apps I had as hobbies (therapy) Singing and music apps, spotofy, musicstudios to make digital music, and worst of all, he took away all my creative work I had saved. Among that, around 5000 photos and videos(I worked with,editingstidios photoshop etc. Alot of writi g I had been qriting. Fiction, manuscripts, poetry, digital diariers, lists. Lists, bookmarks of on line work I traine, researched and prepeard eventul preparations, login to webpages. Two of my iwn webpages I worked obn, i could not access He locked me out from my sons schoolpage, were I could keep up with their achivement schedules and stay in contact with their teachers. ScoIarship and fundsfor me or/ and my sons to apply for, and much much more I had saved for certain reason on my computer.I was on a sickleave from lawschool, I made an attemt to continue my studies, but he locked me out from my sajt there as well, and without access it is impossible to continue Since I kept in touch with friends and family through phone amd online I have now lost all contact with everybody and been totally literally isolated in my home. My only chans for a work is to find an online flexible job since my sleep pattern is completely disturbed and I am feeling sick exhausted and in pain most of the time. I tried to find help from EVERYWERE.The Police, they dont prioritate this kind of crimes I was told and it is very difficult to find hard evidence, The women center, they could only offer a protective house for us to stay, Several therapists and Psycologists, They all listen, then ask me what I am planning to do. How would i know?The Social services, They thretend me to move my sons away from me( 16 and 18 years old). The reason? When I contacted them I wrote a handwrittenn letter, since I was prevented to write on a computer and did not have a phone wich I explained, but for them, They found it weird and concluded it made me seem "strange".He has spread around roumors bothv online and IRL, that I am mentally ill, he managed to tempeted with my last mrssages i wrote, mixed the recievers and made my writing uncomprehended, so it seemed as if i was drunk, drugged or in a kind of psychotic state.It was the last thing he told me he would do, "Tell everbody about me and my ctazyness" and I am totally sure he was telling the truth for once. NONE of my friends has beem in touch with me for more than two years . The worst is, I seems to get blamed. 1. People can just not believe somebody can be so "insane" and spend so much time acting so abnormally crazy and engaging in doing such bizare acts ad some kindg of vengance. So, they believe I sure must exagerate or being paranoid. Especially those who know him a bit. He is so charming, pleasant éxtrovert, funny and polite on the outside. 2. Nobody can gain such control over all technology, it must be me myself, who mess it up, and (they think) it cant be SO impossible to have it fixed. Well I have contacted several datasupportets, computer"experts"running businesses in computer and networkrepair, and my own broadbandprovider off corse. Shops that repairr and unlock mobiles. Some doesn't know more than what I havr read myself to learn, some tell me it is impossible unless he is a computergenious (well its been his primary obsession since the 90th, when he freely was educated in computerscience during some years he spend in prisoner, and I know it is possible. Others want to come to my home, I understand that, but I cant afford it. Ihave tried to contact lawyers, but they want say a word unless they charge for it. 3. I have myself to blame.. HOW could I not realize how manipulative he was and expose him. And with TWO men even two times. (They had completely different personalities, even different nationalities and looks. The first from South europe, a medeterranian country, the second from Scandinavia like me. This is only the most "normal" stuff he has done I been writing here.He destroys me. I feel more and more hope, I've lost my dreams, goal and hope. And i just know it gives him a pervert sence of pleassure. He made threatening messages appear on my phone, with no number, made me change lock on my door. On one occasion, actually that time I locked him ouy, after warning him in advance, he called the Police on me, claimimg I eas suicidal and had two minor children at home ( still, it was my two sons 16 and 18 yesrs old, and they were staying with friends, that special night, since I did not know how he would react) Two Policewomen stepped in in my house (before I manageds to get dressed since I was in bed. They (or one pf them) threaten to break the door , if I did not open immideately. One was obvious in charged, she was rude and walked around inspecting my home as I teally was a criminal. She did not want to listen to me at all. She had allteady made up her mind. I was suffering from psychological illness (according to her).He was just a very concerned and worried husband. I wanted to show some things on his computer, that could be some evidence of fraud of identies, paasports, diplomas, etc. But she was not intressted. She saw a scissor on a table, and as it had been a gun i kept, she asked with a harsh tone why I had a scissor laying there. She told me I had to let him in, it was his home and lawfully his right (it was actually my home, in my name, and he moved in to me. I realized he also desparetely needed I place to live during the time we meet. )Fortunatelly he did not wanted to come inside. I know about one certain woman( although they were more than one) during that time, I know he went to her. I never forget the smurk on his face as he looked at me when he left. And of course. He had just fooled the Police. He made so much crazy things in his attemt to gaslight me to make me believe I wad crazy, so I doubt people would believe it. In one of his "message" to his mistress, i think, he intenionally made me see, he told about a "blog" he wrote in my name, that would make me sick, if I know whar "I" hade wrote. And I could feel his amusement over his own genious idea. I found the sajt, my name, but could not log I have lived like this two years now. And there is no help to get for this kins of abuse. It least not in Sweden. Everywere people get irritated because I can not give rhem a phonenumber pr an e-mail to give them.
Very degrading when dealing of narcissistic
Behavior, I create a boundary in my Heart,
Mind & Soul, when dealing with them
So many of us as a culture grab or reach to the buzzwords ‘Narcissism’ and ‘gaslighting’ when we want some kind of answers out of our relational confusion or to slap the label to feel good about having something to name.
It’s a epidemic in its own right in a lot of ways. I can’t tell you how interesting it became that all of a sudden, those words proliferated and came into common lexicon. It caught on and now everyone, is a narcissist or would seem. Just add difficulty.
Day in day out,
On The news, in cited articles, in water cooler discussions, processing with a friend, etc.. it started to be a phenomenon. And aha! That’s what it is! I have an answer! What a relief? No. What if you’re wrong. What if you’re trying to alleviate discomfort with a label at the expense of others?
What I can say, when you do have a narcissist, you should be absolutely 100% sure, and I think you would know for certain if confronted with one. Being wrong about it also takes away from the real victims of narcissists and minimizes their experience to gloss these terms over people and situations that are in fact not tell tale signs, but just merely difficult and uncomfortable for us. The words should be used and applied only if absolutely certain.
I honestly believe when relational discomfort comes in, and the words come out, it’s patently more harmful than beneficial.
Also, don’t play armchair psychiatry with someone’s psyche just because it gives you a comfortable reasoning for experiencing hard times in a relationship , a label that you yourself have identified. Again, if you have one, trust your gut. Maybe you do. But if there is considerable doubt at play, maybe you’re just upset and reaching to solve what is already difficult in most normal relationships already.
It's very real though. When you're being gaslighted you know it.
" I'm rubber, you're glue. Bounces off me and sticks to you".
My narc spouse endlessly caused real problems with his words and actions, and whenever I reacted to his behaviors at all, he accused me of being the problem, called me names, and then started attacking my character. Several times I pointed out that neither his friends or coworkers would ever tolerate the behaviors he exhibited at home, and that my reaction to them was completely justified. The only response I ever got was a blank stare and silence. Clearly he was trying to gaslight me, and when I refused to play along, he was lost. That's how I knew when I had him dead to rights- when he became speechless (for once).
Lol amen. Literally, " I know you are but what am i"
When I tried to share/seek support, so now person narcissistic mom is trying to place her label actions on me.
Before watching the full video I will say I think I can make a pretty good guess based on past experiences. Mainly my older brother and sister skewing the facts and to an extent my younger brother.
E.g. I stopped by my sisters place to pick up some belongings of mine. She recently kicked me out, I was homeless, and needed money for food and bus fair and such to survive and all that so I was gonna sell some of my books to the buy back book store. She claimed a book of mine was hers. Whether it was or wasn’t isn’t the point (it wasn’t hers though, it was mine).
I said I needed it and it was mine and I don’t have time for her nonsense I’m taking it. She threatened to attack me and my older brother came in the room holding a frying pan threatening to attack me with it. I was standing near a long lamp, so I swung the lamp at his frying pan to disarm him, not hurt him. The lamp wasn’t structural sound and it broke mid swing, then he rushed me and attacked me with the frying pan which I took from him and threw into the other room (instead of just attacking him with it, didn’t want to hurt anyone). He started to choke me, I bit his arm to get him to stop, then grabbed my stuff and left.
Later he started telling my friends I bit him, but left out the part where he was trying to choke me and that’s why. They also told my father who was going to help me move into a new apartment that I attacked them and stole their books for money. My father emailed me telling me what a scumbag I am and comparing me to when my grandfather physically abused him. He never asked me for my side of the story.
I responded by sending him pictures of my bruises from when my brother hit me with a frying pan as well as a picture of my hospital bracelet and asking him “where are their bruises?”
So, they tried to keep me from getting my shit, then attacked me, then lied and said I attacked them to my friends and family while I was struggling in life wondering where I would sleep next or when I would eat next.
Whenever someone claims to be a victim of something I kinda just ask questions about what’s going on to see how everything adds up. Cause often times they’ll leave out a lot of information and skew their story to paint the person they victimized who was just defending their self as the victim.
Wow this is deep
Dr can I ask in this world of social media and reality stars is it possible narcissistic traits in people are just going to get worse?
I feel like I see a lot of it in life today that used to be more is less reserved for the super famous with a certain type A personality. I would be curious to hear your thoughts on this and think it would make a great video.
I wanted to tell you that this was so helpful. Thank you Dr. Grande. I recently got out of an abusive dating relationship of three years and I am struggling SO much with wondering if I have it all wrong, that maybe I am the one who is the abusive one. The big takeaway from your video that helped me was the idea of looking at what Person A (my ex-boyfriend) is telling Person B (me) about what I do wrong and getting honest with myself about if his concerns are falling in line with narcissistic abusive traits. So I did that. When we broke up, he sent me an exhaustive list of all of the things he thought I was doing that led to the breakup. I also have a list (that I never sent him) of things he was doing that were hurtful to me. With both of those lists, I categorized them into things like Manipulation, or Gaslighting, or Grandiosity, or Needing Supply. I found that his list of the things he said I did wrong, most all of those were things I had done that made him feel bad about himself (Grandiosity). My List of things he did had a lot of Lack of Empathy, Grandiosity, and Gaslighting. I want to truly learn how to be a better person and improve myself and my ways to become a better partner in the future, and especially change things if I am being narcissistic or abusive. This helped me to more objectively look at if I have things that I need to change. Thank you so much.
Unfortunately not every therapist would be helpful. I don't know if my ex is a narcisist or not but he once brought me to therapy after saying we needed to talk to someone about a parenting issue we were having. In the session I discovered it was marriage counseling and he ambushed me with a long laundry list of complaints and it was clear the therapist was on his side. He totally had her snowed. I insisted on getting a different therapist, which we did in one of those rare moments I actually got my own way.
Cause and effect seem to work strangely in narcissisic minds...
I was always surprised when my ex tried to prove a problem by creating it herself or when she said the effect created the cause...
Thank you Dr. Grande! I’m wondering if you or someone else might know the answer to this. Do you think it’s possible that taking anti-depressant meds for a long period of time can change the persons personality & make narcissism worse? My N mother has been on them a long time & i feel she isn’t even the same person any more. I’m now no contact with her but the last I saw her, she was so vicious & cruel for no reason at all. I knew someone else who was in their 30’s who began to (I believe) become narcissist. She was on those type of meds a long time too.
Could you do an analysis of the psychology of the character of Travis Bickle from Martin Scorsese’s psychological neo-noir film “Taxi Driver”. I always wondered how accurate is the film regarding a vietnam war veteran turning psychotic once back in society
@Ernestine + Marty Martin ~
I agree! But wouldnt he have had to have been that way to begin with?
Perhaps not have crossed the line with regard to the violence but wouldnt it already be there?
But I'm with you,. I'd like to know!
Society should know!
Brings up even more questions, maybe than answers?
im pretty sure he did one
If I were to confront my Narcissistic relation today, I doubt this accusation would have much power over me. It's an attack that relies on exploiting a target's insecurities.
I think it also plays on our fears of becoming the things that harm or frighten us. I grappled for a very long time with the fear that because I had been raised by a Narcissistic parent I would by default become Narcissistic...as if mental illnesses worked by vampire or werewolf rules.
It is not Narcissistic to be confident in yourself, to be firm in your assertion of reality, especially not when confronting someone you believe to be a Narcissist. If you really need to ask yourself whether or not you may be a Narcissistic person, confronting another Narcissist is not the time to do it.
If you are asking yourself if you are a narcissist, you probably aren't. It wouldn't occur to a narcissist that they might be the problem.
Hey Big Todd,
I wonder if you could go more in-depth about the difference between a narcissist and a person with narcissistic traits. Maybe that sounds silly, but my mother is quick to diagnose any person who displays selfish behavior as a narcissist. I know it's more complex than that, but am struggling to reconcile it.
Hello, dr.Grande! May I know if there is the possibility of online counseling with you?
Can you please do borderline versus histrionic?