The Yuzu Situation Explained
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- Опубліковано 8 бер 2024
- The past few days have been crazy for the emulation community. If you haven’t heard already, Nintendo has officially taken down the most popular Nintendo Switch emulator, Yuzu, through legal measures. This is a process that seems to have been mostly resolved within a single week, since Yuzu settled with Nintendo for 2.4 Million dollars. And now, all that’s left of Yuzu is the farewell message on their website. But how did this all happen, and more importantly what does this mean for video game emulation in the future?
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What are your thoughts on the situation? Are you for or against emulation? Let me know in the comments below!
I'm fully in favor of emulation, but it's complicated. Emulation doesn't equal piracy most of the time, but it seems that the yuzu team were doing some things that wouldn't help their case in court (Patreon for support, emulating a console that's not discontinued). I think they put a target on their project and they must have been aware of how bad things might go, considering on how quickly they settled.
i personally support emulation, I understand why nintendo did it though, the yuzu devs made money from it for example
Nintendo also caught the devs distributing ROMS in the Discord lol. I love Yuzu, but the devs just underestimated the Nintendo ninjas tbh.
Let me put it from the perspective of someone that loves the 3DS more than the Switch. Look at the situation the 3DS is in currently. There's no official eShop anymore. Nintendo shut down the majority of the Nintendo supported networking, including the MiiVerse, Spotpass, and so on. They're completely ending all 3DS networking within a month. There's rumors of the Switch 2 on the horizon, so that's what's in store for the Switch within a few years.
In order to keep using my 3DS, I don't have much of a choice other than jailbreaking my 3DS(actually, multiple ones). Now I can use Prentendo to play Mario Kart 7 on the 3DS I own with the cartridge I also own. But hey, now I can also play games from other platforms ranging from the lowly GameBoy to the SNES to MSDOS games. I can also back up my CTRNAND and make an EmuNAND on the SD card, and boot from that should the NAND in my 3DS ever go bad.
I think they got caught paywalling an update that made it easier to run the new zelda game is why Nintendo found a way to go after them. As for Citra I'm not sure how they left themselves open to Nintendo going after them.
Lol yeah, well citra was developed by the people at Yuzu as well.
One thing, yuzu DIDN'T allow tears of the kingdom, it was modded (Result of open source programming)
Right
I pay for my games, emulate them anyways, and I will always support emulation. It preserves old content, makes art more accessible to people who can't obtain or afford it legally, and paves the way for near-endless community creativity thanks to mods.
The topic is complicated. But one thing is for sure, I don't need a nintendo switch emulation, at least not yet. And even if the nintendo switch becomes old at some point. I would feel uncomfortable or not safe using emulation, even if this preservation is only meant in a nice way. Is just my opinion
Understandable
I wish there was an Adobe Photoshop emulator
genp(not an emulator but still)
Its not you can still use yuzu
(This is a bit long but I have some thoughts to share)
Im honestly on Yuzus side on this one.
The way I see it is that yes they were profiting off of optional donations for there own emulation. But I don't think its bad that they are.
I mean let me ask you a question: Who was actually paying Yuzu exactly?
Was it pirates? Well that cant be true because people usually pirate newer games because they want them for free. If they were not willing to pay Nintendo what makes people think there willing to pay Yuzu? keep in mind the emulator itself was entirely free to download, meaning pirates would probably not even bother paying and would simply just download the emulator for free.
Because its not pirates that are paying Yuzu, it must be the legal users of the Yuzu emulator who are paying them. The legal users are the ones who dumped and purchased the games themselves. This means that both the developers at Nintendo and the Yuzu devs got money in this situation. This would mean that Yuzu is not profiting off of piracy, but instead profiting off of the people who legally purchased their games and are donating out of kindness.
you make a great point.
@@JacobCruise
Thank you for responding.
I wanted to make this point because I feel people are not being fair to Yuzu. They act like Yuzu making money off there own work is some how bad and that Nintendo deserves the money the Yuzu devs make, even though Nintendo never played any role in making Yuzu nor Citra.
People say things like: "Support the developers financially for their work"
But then simultaneously say: "The developers of Yuzu should not have financial compensation for their work"
I think you can see there is a clear contradiction and double standard tied to these two statements. Whats the reason a game developer and an emulator developer should be treated differently? SHOULD THEY NOT BE RESPECTED EQUALLY?!
Keep in mind the Yuzu developers were developing an emulator. Developing an emulator is NOT easy as it requires a lot of time, dedication and knowledge of the hardware that you want to emulate. Its one of those things thats like: "You fix one thing and two more things break" It can take YEARS Untill an emulator can play most of the games released for a console. Honestly I just think its amazing that the emulator itself is even FREE in the first place.
All Im trying to say is that both Nintendos developers and Yuzus developers should BOTH be compensated for there work in someway.
I just wonder what happened to the idea of: Working hard, becoming successful and making a lot of money. Isn't that what Yuzus devs are doing?
I just don't get the hate towards Yuzu.
@@user-md7er6xe2z I’m honestly on the side of Yuzu devs screwed up majorly on a number of other things and this isn’t meant to be an attack to you but sort of an explanation here so sorry if me being aggressive here.
The negativity towards Yuzu has been out for a while. Specifically back in January of 2021 when a former Yuzu dev went and did a major leak of what was going on in the discord. One of the major points referenced(which leads me to believe this deleted thread was used as evidence in the case) was how they had a google drive of the leaked or current Nintendo Switch games they would pass around to work on Yuzu. Meaning in a a very strong way that while they weren’t supporting piracy they were absolutely benefitting from it. This case was also the case when TotK leaked and their discord mysteriously increased its revenue to 40k for the month it was leaked. Them having early builds behind a paywall absolutely helped with that part as well. This was used within the lawsuit as a point as well due to another feature I have an issue with of Telemetry that reported what games ppl were playing alongside crashes.
There has also been a fair bit of negativity built back when Yuzu tried offering an online service that was paid for by the user. But extra here but thought it was something to add.
There are other issues not mentioned within the legal battle as well that aren’t so much legal but sort of scummy. My first issue is early build releases for an open source project. Again I understand you can go to the head but most people are not going to know this part. But also, it locks builds of the free contributors using this to get an actual job or position of showcasing their work. The stealing of code is another issue as well(C++ and C# both have fairly similar commands with very few differences between them). Without crediting the original writer, which again a lot of people use for portfolio work to show off to employers to get them hired on. PineappleEU the main dev involved with this controversy, has even gone on to recommend Ryujinx after this whole fiasco. Not illegal, but incredibly scummy, especially when they’ve copied code from their competitor Ryujinx.
@@kevinkeith7110
Thank you for responding in a adult manner.
I have some additional points to make.
Im curious as to were did you get all of this information?
Nothing in the lawsuit mentions a google drive? The lawsuit dose mention the Idea of the Yuzu Developers downloading pirated games and distributing them, however they show very little concrete evidence of this in the lawsuit. So we can not say for certain if this happened
"This case was also the case when TotK leaked and their discord mysteriously increased its revenue to 40k for the month it was leaked."
Correlation dose not equal causation. There is not enough evidence to suggest that Yuzu was making money off of piracy. This could be explained by other people seeing videos of people playing TOTK on Yuzu early on max settings and donating to the Yuzu team because the visuals I imagine looked very impressive.
"Them having early builds behind a paywall absolutely helped with that part as well. This was used within the lawsuit as a point as well due to another feature I have an issue with of Telemetry that reported what games ppl were playing alongside crashes."
Nintendo dose mention this in the lawsuit, but only as context to what Yuzu is. They do not make this as a point against them. Do keep in mind that these builds did not allow you to play leaked games.
"There are other issues not mentioned within the legal battle as well that aren’t so much legal but sort of scummy. My first issue is early build releases for an open source project. Again I understand you can go to the head but most people are not going to know this part. But also, it locks builds of the free contributors using this to get an actual job or position of showcasing their work. The stealing of code is another issue as well(C++ and C# both have fairly similar commands with very few differences between them). Without crediting the original writer, which again a lot of people use for portfolio work to show off to employers to get them hired on. PineappleEU the main dev involved with this controversy, has even gone on to recommend Ryujinx after this whole fiasco. Not illegal, but incredibly scummy, especially when they’ve copied code from their competitor Ryujinx."
Most of this is not mentioned because its not relevant to this case. I was only defending Yuzu with in the context of the legal situation. However i can not say for certain if Yuzu used stollen code from other emulators, but I highly doubt it. Yuzu is actually a fork of Citra so thats were a lot of the code came from.
"There has also been a fair bit of negativity built back when Yuzu tried offering an online service that was paid for by the user. But extra here but thought it was something to add."
I did not hear about this, might be true however this is irrelevant to the case anyway
My point is that even if a lot of your points are correct, most of them are irrelevant to the case. We should not judge guilt based on the past actions of an individual. What Im trying to say is that being guilty of one thing dose not make you guilty of the other and we should try to look at this more objectively.
@@user-md7er6xe2z Oh the stockpile of roms was passed around by developers in a private chat. In January of 2021 a developer by the name of Slashiee__ made Twitter post which has now been deleted but the thread is still very much alive through a time capsule, made a post during the Raptor drama(I’ve been digging for a wee bit so that’s where, I’ll gladly send some of my findings to you too if you have somewhere to send it to as I’ve been looking into this a ton) how the developers had a stockpile of roms that they were using to optimize the emulator. While the screenshots shown in the lawsuit showcases a 12 hour gap between it, which if you’d like me to elaborate on why that’s already strong proof I can explain as well as I am actually a Software Engineer, but with a little bit of digging there is a screenshot that shows them having access to it as far back as 4 days before the release. Both are bad and it’s clear it’s both are being referenced here.
And here’s the thing. Them having optimized builds for the next game that was recently released does go and help build the case that, “Hey they are profiting off of piracy.” My point with their patreon is pointing out how a spike during the month it has released makes it very hard to argue that that isn’t the case.
The stuff about the code isn’t relevant to legal matters but was used to explaining some of the animosity the Emulation community already had towards Yuzu that already existed. As it is fairly well known by this point that Yuzu has taken code from Ryujinx with the main person making a thread trying to argue how C# and C++ are completely different languages(they are but aren’t, it’s complicated) and how it was open source code at the time. They also eventually credited Ryujinx in their GitHub which is now gone.
The point on this being an open source with a patreon and early access builds is to explain my animosity towards the project as in my humble opinion, the most an Open Source Project takes is donations for themselves. Not donations to get early access to the next build.
Finally, in general telemetry generally should not have existed period. It’s a much more invasive form of a crash report that is always running and requires the user to opt out of. A crash report does the same thing and tracks the CPU usage, machine info, what you were doing alongside the exception thrown. Telemetry was advertised as THE way to help the developers when a simple crash report would’ve done the same thing.
Can explain more but need to use links and UA-cam is funny with them. Trying to keep this short as I’ve got some stuff to do too so if there’s something I didn’t reference feel free to ask again!! But generally my point was talking about how Nintendo did have a correct assumption here with a rom stash very much existing, the community was having problems with Yuzu with features such as Raptor being advertised, code theft and the patreon releasing early access builds which did promote piracy, even if indirectly.
missed opportunity for the thumbnail to say "it's jover"
I've seen a lot of people ask the question: why use switch emulation when you can easily just buy a switch? Reasons will differ depending on people but here's two: 1) Many improvements like better framerate, better resolution, button mapping, mods, cheats, etc become available. 2) It's more convenient to have every game you wanna play on a single device, assuming you own a PC in the first place or emulate other consoles to begin with.
3) I literally cant afford a $300 console + $50 games