Sprocket Testing On the Sur Ron X
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2024
- In today's video we are testing different sized sprockets for the Sur Ron X we test a 56,58,60,and 64 tooth sprocket. All of the sprockets we tested were designed by us and laser cut at a local metal shop. To buy a sprocket from us head here: emotobros.com/products/ols/pr... Enjoy!
Chapters
00:00 Intro
01:23 Testing
04:28 Interpreting Results
04:49 Acceleration Results
06:09 Top Speeds
09:06 Torque
14:13 Range
16:38 Conclusion
Check out Electric is Better's video on range benefits of a larger sprocket:
• How To Get More RANGE ...
Merch: emotobros.com/products/ols/pr...
Email: emotobros@gmail.com
Website: emotobros.com
Links to the parts we run and our gear:
emotobros.com/part-links - Розваги
another valuable video thank you 🙏
this dude gay
The 54 tooth has been a great middle ground for me. Great for climbing but not to slow for fast trails
But I am sure the 56 is extremely similar
@@EdwinOlding so what’s your top speed with this set up?
so 54 or 56 would be best for more range with a 60v 60h battery ?
or would the stock be perfect with an upgraded battery and controller?
@@user-iv9qx3nv3i going up in size will help keep
Motor temps cooler. With the gearing helping everything staying cooler your setup will be more efficient
Check out our store to buy a machined 7075-T6 sprocket for the SurRon in various sizes: emotobros.com/products/ols/products/7075-t6-aluminum-warp9-sprocket
Any idea when the 54T will be back in stock?
Good explanation, this is more the way I think about things
I picked up a used surron x finally. I have to say Thank you! These videos are golden to me. ✌ Looking forward to buying your bac4000 saving $ up now😁 meanwhile I think im going go with the 58 tooth i do alot of up hill in dirt and rocky terrain
hope you didnt get that bac400 i heard them ko nano controllers are a beast as well !
Nice video guys!
Thanks for uploading this video🙏 We'll explained 👍🤗
Great review
Nice to see your sprockets you had made. Can relate with the high 50T count as I’m really happy now with the 57 I’ve been using for the woods. But my woods wheel set is a 19X1.85 front & 17X2.15 rear now. I’m really liking this wheel size with the 57T because it has instant throttle response that roosts anyone behind me!
PS- I’ve got one of my wheel sets for you guys to do some riding on . Will email you with the specs and sorry for the delay in response..
We are looking forward to it! Do you like the 19\17 combo more than the 21/18 or 21/19?
Big help thanks understood range is important and battery life. With these vehicles when stock it seems the larger sprockets offer greater advantage across the spectrum. Really enjoy all the options available on the Surron bikes. Think 58 is my choice.
I have a Rohloff hub on my BBSHD fat bike, and this all sounds about right. In first gear I can crawl up super steep and rocky technical trails, and IF I get a Sur Ron, I'd go straight to a 64 T, sounds perfect for my type of riding, where speed isn't an issue.
Nice real life review of stats and actual use. Electric rider seems like he got good range ..
range vs playtime/battery life is definitely different categories
those are sweet fox 40s
Good test lol
this has been a fascinating topic to study, i'm 6'5 250lbs i was worried the whole bike would be too small for me but seeing how folks in austrialia kit them out has given me some hope that the pegs and tires can be adjusted to add some height and a bigger sprocket will make all the difference for moving my girth up hills.
There are full size electric bikes with full size power for 8-15 grand depending on budget. You’ll end up spending at least 6-8 grand on a new surron and that’s without upgrading the power at all. I have the bike set up for me cause I’m 6’2 but After a year of owning it I’m wishing I spent the extra three grand on a full size. The stock suspension will not hold up to hard riding for anyone around 200-220 and up and that’ll cost you like 2 grand at least and another 2-3 for a battery and controller, plus the tires are clapped in any kind of real muddy stuff because of how narrow they are and buying a bigger wheel and tire from these custom guys they charge you a grand, so to build a surron or Segway x260 into an actual useable hard trail bike your going to probably spend well over 10 thousand
Great info. I'm thinking of turning my x160 into a commuter. Lowest tooth sprocket I can find is 42. Buy you colocations, could that make it to 40mph? Would a custom 36 tooth work better?
Going that low will put a fair amount of stress on the motor and kill the acceleration. You’d probably be better off just getting a SurRon if you’re looking to get your speed up high enough to commute on. This video is based on a SurRon so not sure how an x160 would compare at this size.
Interesting video, remember as engineers, experimental results always trump theoretical, the trick is to maintain consistency and replicability! Theoretical analysis often overlooks unforeseen factors.
Definitely gonna look into upgrading my sprocket though, which are the best for wheelies? Lol
Also would be interesting to see a smaller sprocket size, doesn’t seem like anyone has tried that yet!
Very important distinction. We mention in the video that, experimentally, we think we were close those the limit of how hard we could launch and as we went up in tooth size it made it much harder to launch fast. This is likely why the times were so close.
Good information for those looking to maximize acceleration without sacrificing top speed, would the 56 tooth be best in this regard? Since it seems that once you step up from there the difference is negligible
At 230lbs. on a stock Sur Ron X with a 64 tooth sprocket and non o ring chain, I was greatly disappointed with the performance. My range was literally cut in half and at 10.5 miles of average riding my battery was at 40%. My top speed was 37 mph and the torque increase was barely noticeable. I took it off and went back to the stock 48 tooth and have been more interested in buying a 42 tooth and seeing what that will do. Thanks for another detailed video.
This is very odd and definitely not something we noticed. We do mention in the video that if you are riding at the upper end of your discharge a sprocket isn’t going to be very helpful for range if at all.
@@emotobros yeah, I found it very odd too and did a number of rides on the flats and up hills and the 64 tooth sprocket was just drawing too much power and felt really weak at top speed...I am going to put it back on when I upgrade the controller and battery later on as I don't really want to be doing 60 and 70mph, but want to take off like a rocket and get to a more comfortable 50mph
We found that it pulls less power than stock but maybe we ride differently. We usually are on fairly steep and technical terrain going under 20mph avg. so that’s why we like the big sprockets so much. Our controller with 60T consistently gets us about 10% more range than stock.
@@emotobros I imagine body weight comes into play too. I gun the throttle constantly and do most riding on pavement.
you are not necessarily wrong as that is my experience to (except the torque part) and i ride my bike going 15-20 mph down bike paths
Torque actually goes down almost linearly as RPMs go up (due to increasing voltage in a motor, so your dyno graph is wrong I'm afraid). This means that with larger sprocket you are loosing torque at a mid-range of speed (20-30 kmh). If you have BAC - set phase current to 430A and you won't need a larger sprocket for bottom torque, while retaining you mid-range torque. With such settings I found 48 or 52t to be optimal for 60v system.
Under ideal conditions and a constant power draw you are correct. However, this plot actually is accurate. AC motors have an area of ‘constant’ torque, which is the flat line before linear drop off. The line shouldn’t be exactly flat, but in general there is an area of mostly constant torque. Linear decrease from the jump is more of a hypothetical result than an experimental one. Also, the ramp upward exists purely as a function of our tune. We have torque ramping setup so that you don’t get hit with all the power instantly because that wouldn’t be enjoyable to ride. The voltage to the motor is actually decreasing as power is delivered due to voltage sag from an increased demand in amperage. Our tune demands very slightly more amps as RPM increases which gives that flat line effect.
Also, the torque is only decreased past the flat line for bigger sprockets. We have ran all the way up to a 64T and notice no decrease in mid range torque with bigger sprockets until about 35Mph with aftermarket controllers.
We also have ASI BAC4000s and run them at 430A. We still prefer >56T and manage to get 55MPH+ with that setup and enough torque to pull the front end up at 25-30MPH.
only applies to no-load rpm. If in the mid range speed the motor is under load then the bigger sprocket still has more torque
Is there recommended sprocket/amount of teeth for better hill climbing? ie is 54 tooth one you recommend this purpose and will it affect top speed by much?
The bigger the better. We run the biggest we can on all of our bikes, definitely a trade off with speed but we don’t have much of a need to go super fast.
translating everything to kmh hahhah ( guys most of the world uses the metric system !! ), thanks for the video, amazing work
SAE master race!😂😂
So what about changing both sprockets like on a MX bike its not all about the rear only
Totally possible just not really necessary. There is such a wide range of sprockets available to purchase that the rear alone is capable in capture a gear ratio that most everyone can be satisfied with.
I can't find a video of someone testing a 38T sprocket, 72v, and BAC 8000. Pretty sure you would go 80mph. I'll have to make it myself I guess
You can go over 80MPH with a 42T and the 800+72V. Lower T sprocket = way more heat though!
In my experience as someone that rides this bike to work and back everyday a larger sprocket does NOT increase range. simply put i have to run the bike at a higher rpm consuming more power just to keep it at the same speed as the smaller sprocket. it can however give you more playtime in the woods as now with the larger sprocket the motor does not have to try as hard to get going and over obstacles.. basically you dont have to wack the throttle as hard. that is why i feel the claim of more range is misinformation
We have never advertised ourself as people who ride on road so that doesn’t apply to us. But beyond that, we mention in the video that people constantly riding at a high speed on road aren’t going to see range benefits so I don’t see what was misinformation.
@@emotobros my experience is at 15 -20 mph not top speed. 14 mile round trip went from charging every two days to having to charge every day
48t to a 54t
Like we said, if you’re trying to sustain speed, you will see no difference because you need more throttle to reach the desired speed and sustain it. For us, we are constantly letting off and getting back on (accelerating) which is where you see a difference.
@@emotobros im in no way trying to bash you guys just feel the average person correlates range to mpc (miles per charge)
Nice
Also with a larger sprocket, the distance you are measuring will affect the times for the torque measure. The bike will not gain as much distance or speed at the higher speed end of the run. By doing a longer run, it allows the top speed differentiation to creep back in. It would be best to measure a shorter distance to measure low end torque. That will give a better impression possibly.
We thought about that too but the speed we were hitting was only around 30mph so minimum the largest sprocket had another 10-15mph to go. The limitation is how hard we could get on the throttle. With a 60T it is a serious struggle to even go half throttle without popping a wheelie. We think we are close the the limit of how hard we can launch and on stock sprocket we were able to go full throttle off the line which made it a lot easier.
@@emotobros If you just shift your weight forward, i mean a little in front of the seat, you are not going to pop a wheelie, at least not enough to be a problem. give it another shot.
👍
My Bike weighs up to 200 lbs and I weigh 200lbs. It has a 72V battery and Bac4000. Do you think I would get the same issue of too much torque on the takeoff where the bike lifts up with the 60Tooth sprocket? Or should I get a smaller sprocket like the 55Tooth?
I’d recommend 64T if possible especially on a 72V system. You’d still be able to hit 60+ with that. What’ve you done to get the SurRon up to 200lbs?
@@emotobros. It's not the Sur Ron. It's. a different E-bike
What do you think the top speed would be with the following:
60 tooth rear
18/21 dirtbike wheels/tires
Bac4000 60v battery set to 10kw
?????
With a 64T and 19” rear instead we hit around 48MPH with field weakening.
@@emotobros WOW! I would’ve thought 64T at 10kw would be WAY more torque than needed… so confusing
Basically, more range in slow technical stuff but less range on high speed commuting stuff. At least with adult weights. 150lbs up?
Correct
You guys should have gone down in tooth size as well! What about a 42t sprocket or a 36t sprocket?
The stock sprocket already has too little torque for off-road riding so we saw no need to test below that. They would increase your speed slightly though and decrease your range when riding off-road.
Looked like you were going downhill in the speed test?
If so I wonder if that might account for the top speed discrepancy you encountered on the largest sprocket. A flat 0% decline road would probably affect the results more towards the theoritical figures.
Definitely would’ve helped but was the straightest road near us where traffic wouldn’t be an issue. The hill was more to compare deltas between the sizes rather than max figures.
what about a 52
After riding a 56T we wouldn’t recommend anything lower as the difference isn’t torque isn’t very noticeable. Do find percentage torque increase though you can do 1-(48/52) then you can do 44*(48/52) to find the top speed on the stock controller.
Would love to see the comparison of a 50t and 52t sprocket versus the 48t.
We would like to as well but at $50-60 per sprocket, the revenue from this video won't even cover the time spent designing 1 of the 4 we tested.
@@emotobros Coming from a guy with forks that cost half as much as a full Sur-Ron. You are well off with $. Probably got a Ludicrous XX on the way smh.
@@micahack5377 the forks were $850 after selling the stock ones which is less than 1/4th the SurRon. If being able to spend $850 makes us well of than, yeah, I suppose we are. However, we also work full time run this business and have few expenses. No XX on the way, our controllers are better :)
And this topic is individual because it is very sensitive to this matter, I think that everyone should deal with it personally, it is completely useless to ask each other what you have... Haha you have to buy each one that looks ok to me and try otherwise I will never find out according to this bullshit... Everyone understands personally what will suit them better, you are useless to ask about these things... everyone drives in a different style street, Main road, full road, forest, Steep hills, etc. etc. you have to buy a bigger rosette and try it and if you don't like it, exchange it for a smaller one, logically, and you don't understand what people are always solving and they ask what kind of rosette you have and why and why and why, even these tests are absolutely not logical
Lol to check top speed u need to test on flat ground not down hill 🤣 no accurate information there on top speed gravity pulls you down
Actually, as long as each test is conducted on the same ground, the results relating to the speed difference is still accurate. The speed differential is what matters.
You don’t have a clue what you talking bout there is 4 sprockets 🤣👍
If you are referring to the Jack shaft gears and motor gear, those are not sprockets. In a pair of gears the larger is referred to as the sprocket and the smaller is called the pinion. There are not four sprockets on the bike.
If the test numbers vary because the testers couldn't run their tests consistently then the TEST IS INVALID, and despite all your effort should have NOT HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED. The test is fundamentally flawed. I figured this out when I was 12 years old. I ran a math probability test for a class in school and I attributed results to tester variations. That means THE TESTER IS FLAWED. If the tester designed the test then both the TEST and the TESTER ARE FLAWED. I got a "D" on the paper.
The tests were all conducted consistently. Sometimes results don’t match expectations. More tests could have revealed them to be outliers but we only have so much time to spend testing. Not sure what your goin on about man😂😂
@@emotobros "We only have so much time to spend?" More excuses? Wow, it must be nice to live in your world. A world where proper results are optional and there's no repercussions for failure. Man, I want to live in your world. It sounds easy. If I EVER provided answers like those you give to my professors in college years ago or to my clients now I'd be persona non grata in minutes, have no customers, & be penniless living under a bridge because millions could die because of my less than perfect solutions to problems. I don't do that. I produce inspired solutions to problems others deem "too difficult to solve," or "impossible to do" 100% of the time often with little to no information to guide my efforts. Your world filed with reasons why things can't be done sounds like a vacation to me and reminds me of when I was in grade school teasing pretty girls at recess and playing kick ball. I guess it's only youtube. There's as much idiocy as brilliance. Peace. Keep the electrons flowing and the wheels spinning. Ride on.
God tier ego stroke, chief, 10/10. You know what sounds easy to me? A world where you have unlimited time and resources to sit around and attempt to reach a conclusion that’s already very easily proven physically/mathematically. This was a dirtbike sprocket test for UA-cam, take things a bit less serious and understand that we had a section explaining why we felt we got the results we did.
@@emotobros Look, I got a math paper graded down when I was 12 years old for doing the exact thing you did. It still stings and I'm bitter about it to this day. Clearly.
You need to use rollout to get the consistency.
Lol to check top speed u need to test on flat ground not down hill 🤣 no accurate information there on top speed gravity pulls you down
Responded to someone else about this but it was less about top speed and more about the gap between the different sprockets. Top speed is going to be different for everyone depending on weight, tire size, tire resistance, chain type, drag, etc so the value itself is fairly useless.
Very useless information so why bother giving flase expectations besides that everything else was very cool not into electric bikes but I am into two strokes I get it I've been a gear Head for 40 years
@@benweissman4410 That's precisely our point. Top speed is completely useless to anyone who isn't the exact same weight as us riding the exact same bike in the same conditions. The purpose was to show how top speed changes with sprocket size.
For every tooth u add to the rear sprocket u gain torque and lose one mph per tooth on top end speed for every tooth you remove from the rear sprocket u gain 1 mph per tooth and trade off some torque for top speed that's how it works been doing this along time