Real Narcissists are Covert, Grandiose Narcissists are Psychopaths
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- Опубліковано 27 бер 2021
- Personality and Individual Differences, Volume 177, July 2021, 110780
Narcissism through the lens of performative self-elevation
www.sciencedirect.com/science...
"We conclude that grandiose narcissism is better understood as one manifestation of the high self-regard exhibited by a related condition - psychopathy. Conversely, vulnerable narcissism actually is narcissism proper, a behavioral adaptation to cope with and to mitigate the suffering imposed by insecurities about oneself."
www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq... (1999)
Narcissism is ego discrepant and compensatory. According to Dave Kelly (www.ptypes.com):
"Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a pervasive pattern of unstable, covert narcissistic behaviours that derive from an underlying sense of insecurity and weakness rather than from genuine feelings of self-confidence and high self-esteem, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by six (or more) of the criteria below."
The Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Type:
• Seeks to create an illusion of superiority and to build up an image of high self-worth [Millon];
• Strives for recognition and prestige to compensate for the lack of a feeling of self-worth;
• May "acquire a deprecatory attitude in which the achievements of others are ridiculed and degraded" [Millon];
• Has persistent aspirations for glory and status [Millon];
• Has a tendency to exaggerate and boast [Millon];
• Is sensitive to how others react to him, watches and listens carefully for critical judgement, and feels slighted by disapproval [Millon];
• "Is prone to feel shamed and humiliated and especially (anxious) and vulnerable to the judgements of others" [Millon];
• Covers up a sense of inadequacy and deficiency with pseudo-arrogance and pseudo-grandiosity [Millon];
• Has a tendency to periodic hypochondria [Forman];
• Alternates between feelings of emptiness and deadness and states of excitement and excess energy [Forman];
• Entertains fantasies of greatness, constantly striving for perfection, genius, or stardom [Forman];
• Has a history of searching for an idealised partner and has an intense need for affirmation and confirmation in relationships [Forman];
• Frequently entertains a wishful, exaggerated and unrealistic concept of himself, which he can't possibly measure up to [Reich];
• Produces (too quickly) work not up to the level of his abilities because of an overwhelmingly strong need for the immediate gratification of success [Reich];
• Is touchy, quick to take offence at the slightest provocation, continually anticipating attack and danger, reacting with anger and fantasies of revenge when he feels himself frustrated in his need for constant admiration [Reich];
• Is self-conscious, due to a dependence on approval from others [Reich];
• Suffers regularly from repetitive oscillations of self-esteem [Reich];
• Seeks to undo feelings of inadequacy by forcing everyone's attention and admiration upon himself [Reich];
• May react with self-contempt and depression to the lack of fulfilment of his grandiose expectations [Riso].
Forman, Max. Narcissistic Disorders and the Oedipal Fixations. In Feldstein, J.J. (Ed.), The Annual of Psychoanalysis. Volume IV. New York: International Universities [1976] pp. 65-92.
Millon, Theodore, and Roger D. Davis. Disorders of Personality: DSM-IV and Beyond. 2nd Ed. New York: Wiley, [1996] pp. 411-12.
Reich, Annie, [1986]. Pathological Forms of Self-Esteem Regulation. In Morrison, A. P., (Ed.), Essential Papers on Narcissism. pp. 44-60. Reprint from 1960. Psychoanalytic Study of the Child. Volume 15, pp. 205-32.
Riso, Don Richard. Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery. Boston: Houghton Mifflin [1987] pp. 102-3.
Speculative Diagnostic Criteria for Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Disorder
A pervasive pattern of self-inflation, pseudo-confidence, exhibitionism, and strivings for prestige, that compensates for feelings of inadequacy and low self-esteem, as indicated by the following:
• Pseudo-confidence compensating for an underlying condition of insecurity and feelings of helplessness;
• Pretentiousness, self-inflation;
• Exhibitionism in the pursuit of attention, recognition, and glory;
• Strivings for prestige to enhance self-esteem;
• Deceitfulness and manipulativeness in the service of maintaining feelings of superiority;
• Idealisation in relationships;
• Fragmentation of the self: feelings of emptiness and deadness;
• A proud, hubristic disposition;
• Hypochondriasis;
• Substance abuse;
• Self-destructiveness.
Corresponds to Ernest Jones' narcissistic "God Complex", Annie Reich's "Compensatory Narcissism", Heinz Kohut's "Narcissistic Personality Disorder", and Theodore Millon's "Compensatory Narcissist".
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In my experience with one of those MONSTERS, they oscillate between vulnerable and grandiose narcissists during the curse of the relationship. In the beginning they humble themselves down to the point of ridiculousness to conquer you. At this point they are very vulnerable and servicing to get you to love them. Once they THINK that they have got you, they become grandiose monsters. They become ridiculously over confident as they put you down (nice try!) like there’s no tomorrow. As you fight back and want to get rid of them they become vulnerable again. It’s a back and forth interaction from hell that no human being is able to keep up with. RUN!!
☝☝☝everything she said☝☝☝
Thanks for sharing this. So far i have only dealt with the vulnerable side of mine, not yet diagnosed NPD, but she has all Narc traits.
The sneakyness is unprecedented. I have been researching on this for 2months now. If she ever upgrade to grandiose, ill make her vulnerable forever (at least till i cut the bridges between us).
that's called "disarming". they make you feel safe around them and think they're harmless.
@@CBRRR-eh3ky don’t forget that every time they feel grandiose and start to put you down they are already cheating on you. They cheat on you throughout the entire relationship.
yes, i see covert and grandiose as 2 modis operandi of the same "disorder" like a turtle with the head outside or inside the shell - It sitill a turtle. 🕶
Many years ago, my ex said a shrink diagnosed him as being “high on the narcissism scale,” and his next sentence was, “That’s why I am so successful as a manager.”
😅ugh they're so annoying
Covert narcissist will cry and beg as if they’ll die if you leave. They make a lot of promises wich they never keep, stalk you for a year. When you give them chance after chance (when you don’t know what they are), they discard you when THEY are ready. And when you’re in pain, they laugh and discard you with a big smile on their face. Ofcourse AFTER they took all they could get out of you. There are no words to describe how evil they’re and the damage they leave behind. This was my experience in a first long serious relationship. I was abused to the level i didn’t know who i was anymore and couldn’t function. Thank you Sam for sharing your knowledge. You helped me a lot understanding certain things.
I find it super facinating seeing folk thank the exact disordered type of human that destroyed their lives.
Sam is brilliant.
👌👌👌👌👌👌😬
I’m so sorry to hear that. It’s exactly what you said. You can’t wrap your mind about how they can be that way. Trust me when i say I have a lot of experience with life and people in general. But never in my life have i even imagined that this kind of people truly exist. It’s truly mindblowing. I hope you’re okay and everything works out in the best way possible.
@@aginggenxer I think forgiveness is up to the individual .. realize she's mentally sick. I mean that in the fullest capacity. They are like handi-capped people. They should be walking around with a sign over thier heads that say : Warning , I am a danger to others and myself , plz proceed , interact , or simply be around me with caution ....
And the sign would not be exaggerating at all ...
U have described my life, the covert narcissists are like snakes, the lie and cheat and very ungrateful.
No one in my family has been diagnosed, as they have not seen a counselor; but I am confident THAT narcissism has been a multi-generational problem in my blood family. While I believe most of the disorder has been born from pervasive abuse, there also seems to be a genetic propensity to develop it.
Before I knew of the disorder, I had already walked away from our mother because of her tirades. Initially I thought her problem was pathological envy, because every time I did something with her, or when someone within or outside the family overtly praised me, she'd go on a conspicuous attack, even regarding events or concepts about which she had little to no knowledge.
For seven years, I left it up to her to communicate. In addition to her attacks, I realized (with the help of my wife and children, and my youngest brother) she had never called, never visited, never accepted an invitation to do anything with us since I'd left for college, developed a career, got married, had kids, etc. She never reciprocated, but ran around telling her friends, family, strangers that I hated her and had abandoned her. The truth is, she abandoned me, and reinforced her notions among her golden children, one of them likely also a full-blown narcissist who has done an exceptional job of destroying what little "family" we had, and apparently destroying his own family.
@@halibux6683 Yeah it's funny not funny, eh?
A grandiose sense of self hides feelings of inferiority. All beings are capable of love when they can rid themselves of feelings of both superiority and inferiority.
Yes. Insecurity births evil and superiority carries out its will!
@@sammaloney1746 oh. Oh this is well said. I’m going to tell my therapist this one ☝️
Society does rewards narcissists, though.
Thank you for the citations! Helps with compiling ideas
Yes. Narcissism is from low self-worth. They are children that didn't get helped down from the chair and shown how to walk the path, and pick themselves back up after a fall. They look back to the good and easy praise they got on the soapbox and choose to play to the crowd instead. They are forever looking for the easy love that came from parents, and have not developed true self efficacy to love themselves in all ways.
Yes the trauma never leaves them. Always searching for something they are too old to get. The overcompensated ego and loud presence gives away the low self esteem really easily. When you date one you see there true colors sometimes and how insecure they really are. It’s wild learning about all of this and looking back to people you know/dated.
@@travis6694 Good points. The paradox of things reveals the truth.
This is a very intriguing video and cited study, thank you for posting. The greater awareness of brain damage (kudos for naming it as such) being a potential outcome of self-inflicted, maladaptive psychological coping mechanisms is staggering. Perhaps the most dangerous drugs on the planet are no longer alcohol/illicit substances etc as we currently propose but the neurochemical compounds formed when a child’s innate expectations to be nurtured are not met. Although several studies have shown the biology and chemistry of neurological transformation as a result of neglect/ abuse/ poverty etc, this study seems to garner its own importance as it draws the same-vein psychological observations in a large sample size with ample backing from other experts in the field. Let’s look to a broader-community awareness of the nature of maladaptive compensatory response, perhaps we can look to solving this problem in some appropriate similar fashion that society transformed their opinions about smoking: public awareness, science, healthier evolution of cultural norms. 😀
I am not a psychologist. I'd say I watch you to understand the dynamics at play in my personal life. Based on my personal relationship(s), I think that yes, low self esteem and self loathing (from damage done in childhood) are the cause, and I can see how the narcissism is the person's unconcious DIY repair job. I found the point you made at 21:45 interesting (dependence on people to self report accurately). Have studies been done using couples? I can see the criteria you've listed, being met by someone, but that same someone would never agree that they meet any of the criteria. In fact, the suggestion would be met with a rant, changing the subject, turn into a verbal assault (at least) on the suggestor (including a therapist and a minister), claims of being a victim, or all that and more. Never addressing the issue raised, never acknowledging harm done, never any true resolution, ever.
Clearly, you haven't watched the video to its end.
“A pervasive pattern of self-inflation pseudo-confidence, exhibitionism, and strivings for prestige that compensates for feelings of inadequacy and low self-esteem...”. It sounds like Sam is describing ‘regular’ narcissism. The way Sam described it it seemed he wanted us to be shocked that they were underlying feelings of low self-esteem, but isn’t that true of all N’s? I don’t grasp how this subtype is different from the typical N’s...does it come and go, vs ‘regular’ N’s being consistent?
Psychopaths have grandiose narcissism but have *NO insecurities.* It most definitely is self-love. Not to mention that their grandiosity *often* comes from *real accolades* they possess/accumulated.
I get this sense of this flexing=narcissism=false inflated self intimidating superiorizing self like cats, animals puffing itself out, trying to appear bigger and more intimidating to fend hostilities off.. except that this puffing out becomes permanently fixated somehow.. as in at no point could the real self feel safe enough to come out
Great video very informative
Thank you for a good insightful video. What about frontal lobe damage in psychopathy? Does it cause anosognosia as well? I too agree that the grandiose narcissism is built into the psychopath brain model along with ADHD (in many many presentations) ... curious about the anosognosia component.
As one continually updating what was first learned as an undergrad, so long ago, it is interesting to rephrase this thought for my own understanding that it seems as if a covert narcissist sometimes can actually believe some portion of his own gaslighting conversation in the manipulation of another, by taking parts of his differing view as truth.
Fascinating always. I'm curious as to a cutting edge view on histrionic patterns in males in relation to somatic narcissism. I will search your channel of course...
The intro transcripts cc have been very funny over the years.
I first heard the term “flexing” meaning, to show off, in 1991 or 1992, but I had never heard about this paper.
i wonder then if my all-consuming quest for knowledge might simply be the psychopathic trait of seeking power
Mr. Vaknin, the only thing I can think of as more lonely than to have been narcissistically abused unto obliteration is to have an IQ over 150 and go through said abuse. Your lectures are very, very healing and illustrative to those of us who feel desolately lonely in this experience because we feel lonely in...every experience.
A lot of people with a high IQ tend to lack common sense so your IQ is irrelevant ,but of course those with a high IQ love to let the world know. Does it make you feel better? Do you seek to attain some sort of a reward or special treatment🤔certainly didn’t stop you being “obliterated” 🙄
@@Sunflower88685 you do you hon
@@Sunflower88685 what the hell is wrong with you?? Her comment made you feel insecure and inferior?
Dear Professor, I need your help. Watching your videos, and I'm growing to be more certain about being a covert narcissist. I want to ask you if there is a link between that and retroactive jealousy. If yes, what can i do about it?
Thank you!
How cute!😄
@Cikgu Kucing - LoveKucing woah woah . Don't dismiss him like that. He probably is a sick little f*CK and wants to deal with it now ... Who knows how many friends he's lost and hearts he's hurt
I have always thought deep down they have very low self-esteem and worth but build a unrealistic reality in a way to protect them as a child that they are of high value better than everyone but deep down they don't seem to feel this way and there emotions are constantly unbalanced and they're trying to regulate them because it's not a true sense of oneself. I'm also seeing a connection to Alzheimer's and dementia possibly later in life.
Lol u are spot on .. described exactly what I've come too observe and assume.. they forget things.. drug abuse doesn't help
Constantly in a battle with thier own emotional turmoil , confusion or what ever ... And they aren't above trying making their attempted victim feel like they are the cause of it...
Sam, I'm comparing this video with your other video "Doormat Covert Narcissist Turns Primary Psychopath'"(which has been the best video I have found to help me understand my ex). and the information seems to contradict. I thought covert narcissists can have psychopathic traits and be scary af. What am I missing?
You are confusing F1 (factor 1) and F2 psychopaths.
@@samvaknin thank you for the clarification.
Have you seen a narcissist that likes to play mechanical tricks? Like an evil McGyver? Like setting up things to look like accidents to endanger their family?
Sounds heavy yo.
Mine suggested that he sabotaged my motorcycle - haven’t ridden it since... scared to - whether he did or not it’s unimaginable that it would even cross a person’s mind
Oh yeah mine made sure our house went into default I was giving the money thinking bills were paid I gave him 5,000 one week later I found out I had no home my electric was shut off my water was shut off I had to borrow from a friend ti leave
How about seeking out the vulnerable and intentionally getting a high body count...in the same way that serial killers compete, oh he killed 66 people before he got caught but I got 68 so I'm smarter and better than him kind of thing...only instead of abducting and murdering people with their own hands because they get off on it and it's the whole point, they manipulate these fragile people into suicide, which for them is the whole point! To be a serial killer who kills his victims by their own hand...because, well, how on earth could they ever get caught!
@@sammaloney1746 I was more talking about sabotage of their own family to look like an accident .
mr sam after being with one of these covert narcissists for long time i have to tell you,its the case that they,mistake erroniously these behaviours,and parts of self,for their nucleus,as they do not have a nucleus like normal people,but yet there is a need for the self definition o the individual,they end up identifying with their disorder,because its the only thing that resembles a real nucleus or ego inside the emptyness of their being,the false construct is the only inhabitant of the hall of mirrors,therefore they are not proud of their disorder,i would even dare to say that they are ashamed of it,but its the only thing they can identify with ,when they look inwards to themselves
Indeed
Professor Vaknin what do you think about the views of Boris Sidis on raising children? Can it cause or prevent narcissism?
Didn’t work out too well with his son, now, did it?
I'd like to comment but then I would be your narcissistic supply. 🤭
It's so impossibly sad. My daughter is a compensatory narcissist and it pains me to know how ephemeral her stability is. There is nothing I can do to help. I can only watch. Pray? Cross my fingers? Powerless.
@@e11esounds I'm the mother
Can it be corelation betwen obssesive super ego and narcissist false selfe?
Dear Sam, I was hoping you could point me in the direction of more material regarding those different subtypes of ego you mention towards the beginning:
Specifically, what would be the term for the part of the psyche that correctly regulates the external image of a neurotypical (normal) person in order that they might correctly operate in society and not be shunned or ostracised for behaving inappropriately?
For example, a normal person putting on formal attire and speaking with an eloquent professionalism in a meeting with prospective client. This is not a grandiose false self, but it is done by normal people to increase their status. What is this mechanism?
It is called the persona and is regulated by the ego.
@@samvaknin thanks for your efficient response!
i love this man
I have been being harassed by a group of narcissists questioning me over and over again about something with accusations of wrong doing that I had nothing to do with, then later a neutral party will mention something vaguely related and your first reaction is to defend yourself against the past accusations thus making the neutral party think you have a guilty conscious since you started defending yourself against something they did not ask about. It is like putting a seed in your mind that you jump to defend yourself, thus making you look guilty. Is there a Psychologists term for this and a way to prevent them setting that "seed" in your mind?
What you describe is called symptoms of ‘reactive abuse’ (u are potentially emotionally lashing out in anticipation as you fear being accused again for smthg u didn’t do). The ‘seed’ they plant is just self doubt. Just imagine (bad) cops who pressure a suspect until he confesses smthg he didn’t do.. that’s pretty much the same process. They will question your reality and intentions hoping you ‘cave in’.
This is bullying and should not be tolerated in a workplace, school, church, or within a family unit.
Is the overt narcissist in reality a psychopath? I agree with you. Because it's impossible, in my opinion, that the same pathology has two categories that are so very different.
My lady has schizophrenia. How similar is schizophrenia to NPD? Can they coexist? She has self harmed (cutting) as a teenager, I assumed she's BPD because of the self harm. I've heard self harming is not a NPD trait. It's an exhausting ride trying to be a loving partner!!
Watch my videos about narcissism and psychosis.
@@samvaknin blessings to you, thanks
My covert narcissist husband admitted not only to being a covert narc but having no sympathy, empathy, or guilt about anything. He also said he was incapable of love and didn't love anyone. I said, wait, you don't love me (we have been married 14 years and I spent half of those being his caregiver). He said, "Nooo, I love you." I asked what he loved about me and he said "I love everything you do for me". Okay, gotcha!! Is he a psychopath due to no sympathy, empathy, guilt or love?
Just because he can’t love does not make him a psychopath, I can’t love or form emotional connections and I’m not a psychopath
You are too stupid to love a narcissist or a psychopath, they see us as a product, a toy to use for their purpose so they look for weak people to use to control them and then use them ... first they are charming, funny just to be liked and they are very good at that but you have never existed in their experience
Has he been diagnosed with Clinical Depression??
i think i might be a covert narcissist its crazy how all the listed traits i notice that i identify with or experience…. where do i go from here
Thank you for this video, and every one I have learned more
from each.
May i ask if you have ever had the opportunity to meet Dr. Xavier Amador, or read/see him speak on Anosognosia ?
His book lectures on UA-cam regarding" I'm not sick, I don't need help!" for NAMI Hawaii - Dr Vaknin/Grannon sessions are great, also Dr.Vaknin/Dr.
Amador might just unring a great many bells of ignorance on these Frontiers-
Are there any keywords/authors I can search for papers about NPD caused by american style Evangelical Christianity?
Watch my videos on narcissism and religion.
@@samvaknin ok but how do i deal with my own covert Narcissistic tendencies towards family when I deal with anti-science/anti-education/ anti- Naturalistic/anti-Material and a supernaturalistic neo-postmodern culture? I try to be covert about my "superiority" complex but its impossible to hide no matter how careful I am, it comes out in my unspoken language/awkwardness/pretentiousness and so becomes a dysfunctional dynamic with layers of unspoken conflict and misunderstandings and pretentous presuppositions. And I am accused of being NPD myself with christian family.
Do you have keywords or authors I can search for relationship strategies? my christian family refuses counseling (even christian therapy) for decades, my family is split apart and not speaking to each other, and I am "shunned"...all because of Jesus.
@@pcb8059 The religious ones are the worst you’ll deal with - they have Jesus and Jesus overpowers your logic or your opinions or your needs. You’ll never ever ever get them to understand their religious mental disorder. Just ignore and don’t go back. Don’t worry about them - take care of yourself first - you won’t change them covertly or overtly.
@@Gsxrtrix Ok thanks, I suspect it maybe hopeless. Im 50 years old from a huge homeschooled type christian family and its my first year of "no contact" giving my family an ultimative of professional family Counsel or Im "leaving", (which only means no more yearly fake polite christmas dinner while I am Avoided like a disease every other day of the year LOL) This after literaly 35 years of asking family for group therapy since I was in junior high school. (because I happen to be the Aspergers Mr Spock "Truth Teller" of the family and then the Scapegoat/Black Sheep after my Apostasy 20 years ago)
Where I'm hung up is, isn't power used to gain status? I don't see these as an either / or. Alternatively, status reflects power. Power is the voltage and status is the height.
They use the power to gain admiration and validation/attention that they didn’t receive as children.
@@winxclubstellamusa I hear this, but conquering a person has real-world benefits and applications. One needs power to gain status over someone.
Q: How do I achieve high status against X, where X is any random person or thing?
A: Through the power of Y, where Y is tactical, i.e. manipulation through guilt or threat of violence.
Power is how you achieved your outcome, and status is how it compares to other outcomes.
How are these made of the same stuff??? They're not.
@@winxclubstellamusa In other words, how could one know one has power if not for the comparison of status?
Through clarifying this I realize: when in intimate relationships with a narcissist, the POWER they (seek to) have over you, is your gift to them of a higher STATUS than your own self-voice in your soul.
The kind of love that lives on, far beyond abuse. A kind of emotional over-correction from being perfectly lovable and guiltless as children and yet being rejected.
Can there be more then one ego or super ego or someone the ego wants to be?
Watch my videos on self-states and pseudoidentities.
“Lady […].”
Analsugnosia is completely different
I like your humour, dear prof 😆
@gretaaurora @colonolkurtz
Mini has been narcissist-discarded 😂
Grandiose is more delusional and vulnerable is more paranoid?
Vulnerable more envious and passive-aggressive.
Lol! you are funny!
Call of Cthulhu...Hey mom!
What if one is grandiose most of the time but covert when manipulating?
@@winxclubstellamusa Thx bc some of the people I knew were all over the place
@@DEADIKATED Yep, I can relate!!
So in other words all psychopaths are Narcissistis but not all Narcissistics are psychopaths...
All psychopaths are GRANDIOSE, the crucial distinguishing feature of narcissism, including covert narcissism,
@@samvaknin You should do a video on Justin bieber I think he’s a psyopathic narcissist
@@peterorsmond1489 I’m not diagnosing him bruh that’s just what I observe that he is.
The best example of a known psychopath in my perspective is Michael Jackson. Not saying this to insult his memory but i truly think he’s one of best examples. Riddled with a deep low self esteem and dozens of insecurities. Who has created the most Grandiose Self he could find.
@@artemisia77782 I’m sorry but low self esteem and insecurities does not equal psychopath behavior, if your basing it off of that then you are calling most of society right now psychopaths and that isn’t true.
I feel bad for all the ppl that will be labeled narcissists bc a bunch of novices watched some youtube vids...what portion of the population are actually narcissists I wonder? At what threshold are narcissists just average ppl?.... is this a product of western civilization?
Is there a test that I can do for my kid who’s 11 and know if he has narcissistic traits like his father? What can I do to prevent him from being one. Please Dr. Vaknin answer my question. Thanks
NPD cannot be diagnosed in 11 years old. Search the channel for relevant videos.
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führt zu einem Mangel an verfügbaren
"SCHUBLÄDLI"
... und das hat genau WAS mit dem Inhalt dieses Videos zu tun????🤷♀️
Lol
And actual narcissists are only 1% of the population.