Covert Narcissist = Borderline+Psychopath+Passive-Aggressive (Convo with Charles Bowes-Taylor)
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- Опубліковано 20 кві 2020
- Not all covert narcissists are inverted narcissists. But all inverted narcissists are covert (“shy”, “fragile”) narcissists. They are self-centred, sensitive, vulnerable, and defensive, or hostile, and paranoid. They harbour grandiose fantasies and have a strong sense of entitlement. They tend to exploit other, albeit stealthily and subtly. Covert narcissists are aware of their innate limitations and shortcomings and, therefore, constantly fret and stress over their inability to fulfil their unrealistic dreams and expectations. They avoid recognition, competition, and the limelight for fear of being exposed as frauds or failures. They are ostentatiously modest.
Covert narcissists often feel guilty over and ashamed of their socially-impermissible aggressive urges and desires. Consequently, they are shy and unassertive and intensely self-critical (perfectionist). This inner conflict between an overwhelming sense of worthlessness and a grandiose False Self results in mood and anxiety disorders. They team up with classic narcissists (see below), but, in secret, resent and envy them.
Contrary to misinformation spread by "experts" online, covert narcissists are not cunning and manipulative. Classic narcissists are: they often disguise their true nature effectively, knowingly, and intentionally. They are persistent actors with great thespian skills. Not so the covert narcissist: he suppresses his true nature because he lacks the confidence to assert it. His is not a premeditated choice: can't help but shy away. The covert narcissist is his own worst critic. . Lidija Rangelovska suggests that covert narcissism may develop late in life (during adolescence or even early adulthood) as a reaction to abuse by peers or to social rejection.
Inverted narcissism may be the outcome of arrested narcissistic development: the formation of the False Self is disrupted and incomplete and the inverted narcissist is forced to resort to and depend upon the False Self of another narcissist (her partner) in order to regulate her sense of self-worth.
Compare the classic narcissist to the covert narcissist is this table (Cooper and Akhtar, 1989):
( Continued here: www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq... )
(From the book "Malignant Self-love: Narcissism Revisited" by Sam Vaknin - Click on this link to purchase the print book, or 16 e-books, or 3 DVDs with 16 hours of video lectures on narcissists, psychopaths, and abuse in relationships: www.narcissistic-abuse.com/the...)
Charles Bowes-Taylor
Web: www.narcissism.co.za
Mail: info@narcissism.co.za
The snapshot concept really made sense, as my BPD queen-type mother has actually said to me “Why couldn’t you just be a baby again!” while we were standing by a portrait of me as an infant hanging on a wall in her house. She is incapable of seeing me in reality as an adult, which in itself has caused me immeasurable problems in life. I am forever that child photo in her mind.
Same with mine, she would always say that those were the “better days”. And she wish I was a baby or young child again.
Me too! My parents still even call me my childhood nickname, “Sarie”, as if I’m still a child (I’m 42!) and still see me only as a child and with negative traits (selfish, dishonest, making excuses) even though, according to people close to me, I am none of those things. It’s insanity!
@@sarahgorsuch1776 it's evil
Dr. Vaknin is 100% correct.
How you forget basically everything you promise because there’s no emotion behind it, how you’re more aroused/turned off by yourself, how alcohol temporarily undoes the inherent feeling of being a lost cause at Life.
To name a few.
I see this so blatantly in someone I used to know. The sullen loser narcissist. I wanted to help and that was my mistake
Some of them do have dead eyes, its a scary thing to see.
Yes they do, when they are trying to figure out how to control you, devalue you, or if you caused a narcissistic injury.
@@tone3560 Eyes are the gates to the soul.. yes some people have dead eyes and you might have them too when you feel so offended
Only the target/supply of the narcissist can see that deadness in the eyes. I think it has something to do with familiarity of the narc with the target/supply.
Just wait till you see their full entire eyeballs (even the white part) turn jet black right in front of your face. Yes, I've seen it.
This accurately describes my malignant npd ex husband . He’s an
Unevolved alien species disassociated from empathetic human emotions and only capable of creating corruption destruction and evil
Nancy Elizabeth Grady same. My demonic malignant narcopath ex husband will get what’s coming to him.
I sometimes think the grey aliens truely are a future form of ourselves
My mother was a narcissist and she always took special attention to my oldest son Marvell
And he was diagnosed with schizophrenia and psychosis at the age of 16 yrs old and my mother just overly reacted to his illness as if he couldn’t walk talk or do anything for him self he is now an person who laughs a lot only does things he wants to do but pretends to be handicapped to what ever anyone needs him to do he doesn’t bath brush his teeth refusing to clean anything she does everything for him and exspects everyone else to do for him also
Sam has an hypnotic speaking style.
I've been listening to MANY of Sam's videos lately. (Like many "victims" in the pandemic, I finally have time to reflect/analyze and plan)This video is extremely interesting to me.
I'm planning to severe the connection with my current grandiose cerebral psychotic sadistic narcissist.(haha if that is even an accurate way go to categorize this person)
Mine is very intelligent, he studied psychology and uses that as a way to deflect any of my observations.
Emotionally he is very basic, my gut tells me, he knows this himself.
"The narc doesn't feel responsible for other people's problems." -Sam
my narc often repeats to me "that's you're the problem, that's not my problem"(regarding any issue that I have dared to broach with the narc) (
A lot of narcissists do.
Sounds like 👍 his biggest fan are you shooting your shot 🤔 tho
Your comment on people saying you don't know about inverted narcissists reminds me of the scene in Back to School when the English professor gives Rodney Dangerfield an 'F' for his report about Kurt Vonnegut and says whoever wrote the report "doesn't know the first thing about Kurt Vonnegut", when the report was actually written by Kurt Vonnegut.
Some of the insights here are truly spectacular
Wow, Sam knows his stuff and hit the nail on the head with coverts
My father IS a grandiose, my mother a couvert, im a covert and my sister IS a borderline/psychopatic. I understand better my familly, chaotic and vert stressful.
"even the somatic can find a woman that is much stupid than he is that can be impressed by his intelligence" so cruel, but so true.
Loved this interview. Thank you 🌹
An other fantastic interview, Sam! Congratulation and many many thanks.
Thank you. You are doing important work in your country. I am proud to work with you.
SO Profound, thank you Prof. Vaknin
amen! they do act on behavior they know to be wrong and sinful and they do it anyways though. ...
Thank you for this information I especially appreciated the specifications regarding the differences between covert/overt narcissism.
““The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!” Matthew 6:22-23 NKJV
““No one, when he has lit a lamp, puts it in a secret place or under a basket, but on a lampstand, that those who come in may see the light. The lamp of the body is the eye. Therefore, when your eye is good, your whole body also is full of light. But when your eye is bad, your body also is full of darkness. Therefore take heed that the light which is in you is not darkness. If then your whole body is full of light, having no part dark, the whole body will be full of light, as when the bright shining of a lamp gives you light.””
Luke 11:33-36 NKJV
Eye - singular: www.gaia.com/article/ancient-civilizations-knew-third-eye
Hello Sam. Thank you very much for educating us during this difficult time of Lockdown. one of you many videos you spoke about autism and Asperger I found that was very very interesting . Could you please talk about Dyslexia as well. Frankly speaking the way you connect subject it is mind blowing. Thanks
Ridiculous how , according to comments on these videos, everyone is a narcissist. Sometimes people are just assholes. NPD is serious and not be mistaken with crappy common personality traits or even other conditions. What’s to blame is the amount of coaches, gurus, and pseudo experts on UA-cam validated by scarred ex partners, and people trying to validate their own experiences. Sure, some of these videos are helpful to people, but this trend is so annoying. This channel is the only channel people should watch regarding narcissism. And people, stop overanalysing common shitty behaviour.
I noticed that trend, too. Really weird. Clearly not every abusive behavior is narcissistic and displaying some narcissistic behaviors doesn't mean the person has a pathology.
Who knows for sure, but agree on people sure love to throw narcissist around. But I wouldn't be surprised if the actual number of cluster Bs living among us is substantially higher than the current data based on diagnostics, something like 10%. It might sound weird, but I do believe it is possible that number is even higher if you count the cluster B personalities who are able to live not disordered. It's only a disorder if the personality causes harm, which is subjective in its own right. Maybe something to think about, I don't know
Or maybe everyone mentioned IS a narc. There aren't 33 MILLION different comments about DIFFERENT people. And narcissism is GUESSED to be about 10% of the population. So unless there are MORE than 33 million different comments (In the United States), not EVERYONE is even discussing 10% of the population. Furthermore, many psychologists claim that the 10% is a guess and think it's MUCH HIGHER. And finally, who comes to see these videos??? Most likely abused people. And what kind of person MINIMIZES other's pain? Narcs for one.
Anyway, all the facts above show that clearly not ALL people are calling someone a narc. And if they are commenting on a video like this, they probably DO KNOW someone who would be classified as a narc.
I understand your frustration but also because of the topic of these videos, there is a much higher chance that the audience here, and the commenters, are here because they really are dealing with someone who at least has traits of NPD. I’ve dated “jerks,” but not until I came across a person with true NPD did I feel the need to do more research. It really is a devastating thing to go through.
Thankful for this awesome video!
And laughs and talks to himself often
This is dope! The best i ever heard on Sam Vaknin
Mine really did take pics of me when we were wartchng a show together. He was at peace of that moment, but never took pics any other time
I think these different types of personality are the basis of different types of mythical half man half beast creatures like werewolf and vampires
Likely. Cuz even Superman, for e.g. was based on a psyche theory. Very interesting.
We create stories/mythicize things we don't understand.
A narcist need 100 bite´s to be happy
Overt narcissist takes bite´s from everybody who he see on the day, (50 people 2 bite's = 100 bite's) he is happy.
Covert narcissist take his bite's behind the front door in the family 100 bite's 1 partner = 100 bite's 1 person
100 bite's 1 partner and 1 child = 50 bite's from 2 persons etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
Truth
Unfortunately even before watching the video I’m admittedly a cerebral covert narcissist. That does not make me happy to concede this.
Are you also psychopathic and sadistic?
@@anakein i'am a covert too but what u talking about we are not phycopaths and stuff we are the nicest people in the world we are not dangerous the other narcissists are extroverts They are dangerous they come in a pub they are loud and then they scream and they show you that they are strong they have 100 photos on facebook showing every place they go and show you how many strong people they have around they seek attention and they end up in the jail they are cool be afraid of them we are quiet and NICE PEOPLE and we don't make wrong things, we always respect the rules, i wish you a good day !
How can you make a covert narcissist become aware that he is one (and retain this acknowledgement) and feel safe to expose his vulnerability to himself, to his wife and a therapist, and seek help?
They already know what they are
Served up the covert on a platter
Do you think they are misdiagnosing people with schitypal and avoidant personality disorder? Or do you believe there is a difference between covert narcissism and these two above mentioned personality disorders?
Nope. Again, imo people labeling and over pathologizing human behaviour is an issue, it almost forces self suppression on some level, food for thought 😂
I'm so glad you're talking about the memory issue, other "experts" are ignoring this, like it doesn't exist. It's terrifying when you don't remember almost nothing from your life and you don't know what could be the cause. I would like to ask you what is your opinion on Object relation theoretical point of view, which distincts disorder from traits (style) with following critetia: lack of whole object relation, lack of object constancy and of course-lack of (or no) emotional empathy. What do you think about that, could a whole object relation+object constancy be the "breaking point" on the spectrum of narcissism which differentiate style from disorder? Thank you!
It is much more than just that.
I was diagnosed with covert narcissistic personality disorder this year. Is there any evidence that treatment can help to cure NPD or is it purely just managing the traits?
@@themetamorphosisofgipsy Wowee, another person who doesn't understand that people with NPD are humans too and have variety in their personalities. If you told anyone who knows me I had NPD, they would either 1) not believe you or 2) be completely shocked. Just as my family and partner were. Because they all see me as such a "kind, caring, humble, and considerate" person. Sometimes these things are far more internalised and I can imagine anyone would just say "classic example of narcissism" when I say that I'm the person who suffers from it most but that's the truth, backed up by everyone who understands my position. Don't make yourself an expert just because you've read some articles and watched a few videos, it reveals just how naive you are.
@@fishstickbio594 Yeah, I have been doing cognitive therapy. My psychologist isn't a specialist in NPD and it's been hard to find someone affordable who is but she has said that it's not really curable and it's more about managing the traits.
@@J1Bigtime you should check out a video from richard grannon channel about healing narcissim and you can find courses on his website that may help about the super ego and emotional literacy and disocciation
Dr. Sam, Any Self help advice for a 22 year old male covert narcissist?
check out richard grannon chanel about how to heal narcissim his courses on his website might help
I am also a covert narcissist
Did you do well since your collapse ?
Where is the rest??
Edit: here it is!
ua-cam.com/video/A4KhA5vKlAc/v-deo.html
sounds like borderlines have traits of covert narcissism, is this correct?
Correct, as the title of the video clearly states, genius.
Sam Vaknin lol your such a narc
I know it may be seldom that men are covert narcissist....but I feel that I am married to one....almost 12 years....very A sexual.....very very passive aggressive. Anybody have a good way to vet a counselor.
Kathy T. Check dr carter on UA-cam , they do haves good counselling and in my opinion you need to work on an exit plan for your own sanity as it willl only get worse with age
How does Trump not have NPD? I remember in one of your videos only a couple of weeks ago you described him as a severely deranged narcissist. Is this an older interview? Have you changed your opinion?
I said that he is a narcissist, not that he has NPD: Donald Trump - A Malignant Narcissist? (March 2016) www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq19.html#trump
Can you have a borderline vulnerable narcissist make up in one person?
It’s a real mindfuck
Yes. My father. Pretty sure.
I wonder if its possible for a narc To have both a mix of overt and covert traits?
No. These diagnoses are mutually exclusive: samvak.tripod.com/faq66.html
is it true statement that " a narcissist on purpose chooses not to show empathy " ?
Narcissists have no empathy to show. They have only cold empathy.
Can the covert narcissist recognize overt one and vice versa?
Inverted narcissists can samvak.tripod.com/faq66.html
Thank you !
What do you call a person who displays both overt & covert tendencies then?
Science fiction.
@@samvaknin then can there be somatic covert narcissists? What about a somatic that has never masturbated because they refuse to touch themselves in that manner? Are all narcissists perverse/sadistic in their sexual intimacies? So many questions. Speaking only from my own experience...I have always felt as if I was only an object, a sexual toy to be used for their own gratification. Although...in just the past 13 years there has been a slight change, a maturity of sorts at times...but still many episodes of immaturity as well I'm afraid. At this time we are living apart...it'll be 6 years in August but we still have contact with one another and have not divorced.
Sam if Narcissist has no memory of there past how does Donald Trump do his job every day?
Well, very badly, I guess! Donald Trump - A Malignant Narcissist? (March 2016)
www.narcissistic-abuse.com/faq19.html#trump
Why do they remember when it comes to sex