Would Heath Ledger's Joker Get the Death Penalty? | Fandom IRL
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- Опубліковано 18 чер 2024
- The Joker on Trial: The Dark Knight's Heath Ledger - it’s Fandom IRL
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Would Heath Ledger's Joker Get the Death Penalty? | Fandom IRL
Executive Producer: Roth Cornet
Head Writer: Spencer Gilbert
Writer/Producer: Billy Patterson and Joe Starr
Supervising Producer: Max Dionne
Senior Producer: Billy Patterson
Production Coordinator: Ryan O'Toole
Post-Production Supervisor: Emin Bassavand - Розваги
Ledger's Joker specifically objected to the idea that he's insane. I doubt he'd allow a lawyer to even attempt an insanity plea.
He'd probably represent himself
@Chad Hauntz If self-representation was allowed by the court (major error), this would enable the Joker after "therapy" by a prison psychologist (not Harleen Quinzel) to appeal his case due to incompetent legal advice , make motions to change venue if retried, his place of incarceration if re-sentenced, his treatment by guards and just about anything else to tie up Gotham's legal system for a very long time and probably trigger a tax rise for the residents of Gotham. Chaos would ensue, to the Joker's delight.
@@marikotrue3488 Huh I learned something interesting. Thanks Mariko
He probably would only to allow himself a chance to prove that he is not insane but the entire world is. Not to mention engineering an escape while doing it
Mariko True a person who represents himself is not entitled to claim ineffective assistance of counsel. Also, the right to represent oneself is a right and will only be denied in the most extreme circumstances. Therefore, a judge will not commit a “major error” by allowing a defendant to represent himself. A judge will exercise extreme discretion when determine whether to deny the authority to exercise the right and will lean in favor of allowing it.
I believe that Christopher Nolan commented years back that if Heath Ledger didn't pass away so tragically the sequel to TDK would of had Joker being put on trial. That would have been amazing to see.
BlueHooloovoo
I thought Jonathan Nolan stated that it would have revolved around an Arkham breakout involving the Bane story arc.
It's never been confirmed if The Joker was supposed to return for the third film.
@@h.b.smith_writer yes it was, nolan said if ledger hadn't died he would have been in dark knight rises.
*would have or would've
That would have been so cool. I miss Heath so much.🥺
I'm really enjoying these IRL takes on bad guys! Can we also charge some "good guys"?
Blacklash 225 I’m a longtime fan but watch Legal Eagle if you wanted more. They are pretty much using his format. I hoped they would bring him in to collaborate instead of copying his show.
@@pccpmonster Maybe they will! But, I'll check that out
@@pccpmonster I see what you are saying, but I think the approach of legal eagle is slightly different. In here they are setting from the point how would look like the legal defense of this guy in the real life. In contrast, in legal eagle he studies the realism of the legal arguments used in shows or presents a balanced assessment of a particular situation. Said that, I've been following legal eagle in the last few months and my perception might be skewed.
Is that you Donald?
I'm pretty sure that a Joker on trail would create a Jack Ruby situation where a 'concerned citizen' takes justice into their own hands.
C Wilson
Yea a random cop would’ve killed him long before he makes it to jail/trial.
Joker would use it to escape. Remember the cop in The Dark Knight?
He'd probably "commit suicide" just like Epstein.
I mean there’s a reason why none of his villains ever really get the death penalty cuz all of Batman’s villains literally are crazy which is why their all sent to the asylum and not blackgate
In the real world though, just being crazy doesn’t get you sent to a mental institution. A lot of homicidal people have some sort of mental issue. But insanity pleas are for people who’s mental illness causes a break with reality where they truly did not know what they were doing and they have to prove that. It’s fairly rare.
uchiha bomber
It would be because people are afraid of being killed by affiliates of the villains.
Smootlegend, that’s not how law works.
@@sarasamaletdin4574
Not in our world no, but that's what routinely happens in Gotham and why its justice system is useless, either ran by crime organizations or by those too afraid to take on criminals. The best, most realistic thing to do is take the villains to another city court very far away.
SmoothLegend But we’re talking about how the Joker would tried in a real world justice system and not the romanticized world of Gotham that is seen in the comics, movies, games and tv shows.
I already knew the Joker was scary, but this guy makes him seem scarier!
Considering how manipulative and physically strong he is (He was able to overpower that cop in a matter of seconds to escape Gordon's prison) they might have to put him in solitary, or with a cop that has NO connection with him.
Also, I can see Ledgers Joker creating a Harley Quinn out of his therapist. He's THAT manipulative.
It is increasingly sad we lost Ledger because we would have had much more stories.
There are reasons why in every depiction of the Joker he has an enormous network of corrupt cops, judges, politicians etc. He's so good at finding things that break the average person. Not sure if you are a comic reader but if you are then look up Batman: The Killing Joke. It's all about showing Detective Gordon & Batman that one bad day can change a person forever.
If John Doe doesn't work we could always go for Joe Kerr and keep it canonical
Very good! Joe Kerr from Joker's Millions in Animated Series. There was also Penguin's pseudonym of PN Guin in Batman 66.
“So we had to ask, why so serious?”
"Would you put the joker on the stand"
I'd love to see it because theres no way he would sit still.
Bailiff V Joker: Dawn of Tackling
I am loving these deep dives Fandom IRL things. They're really interesting!
What if batman was on trial?
Edgar Dominguez id watch that👀
Batman Animated Series, Episode "Trial"
@@gabrielgomez8814 I'll have to check it out
@@edgardominguez391 Extra Credit: Read Batman: White Knight
IRL he would be on trial, he is a masked maniac. All Superheroes would be.
Interesting how Phoenix's Joker has a definitive history of mental illness but "his" lawyer thought pleading insanity was a bad idea while Ledger's lawyer thinks insanity is the only option.
@Lori Hanks Is this analysis based on professional expertise in mental illness and how the law defines insanity, or just your personal opinion? I'm not trying to antagonise or anything, I'm just curious because I have no clue about how the law actually defines insanity. :) For instance: Since Ledger Joker does such massively over the top crazy evil things to random, innocent people, and yet still claims that he's NOT crazy, wouldn't that be evidence that he IS...? On the flip side, wouldn't Arthur chasing down the last guy and killing him imply that he DOES know that what he did is wrong because he knows, in the moment of the crime, that if that guy escapes he could identify Arthur, leading to his arrest, so he makes the conscious, self-preservation choice to stop that...? Again, I don't know how any of this works from a legal standpoint and would be very interested to know what the official position is. :)
Mental illness is not insanity.
Insanity means that your mental illness is so severe that you are unaware that you are breaking the law or doing anything wrong- the classic example is cutting someones' throat under the delusion that it is a loaf of bread.
Neither Phoenix nor Ledgers' Joker would actually qualify for insanity, since they both knew that they were breaking the law when they killed people, both showed levels' of premeditation (Phoenix when he shot Murray with a gun he smuggled onto the show, and when he stabbed Randall in the eye with a pair of scissors he purposely picked up; Ledger with...absolutely everything he did ever); both take steps to evade the law to the point of actually getting officers injured (or in Ledgers' case, actually murdering dozens).
Phoenix would (or at least "should") probably get "Sane, but mentally ill", which means he would be locked up in a mental institution (as he was) and if he was ever cured of his mental health problems, would serve out the rest of his sentence in a prison. He's mostly just reacting to events beyond his control and exacerbated by his illness, and all of his murders either impulsive or only planned out minutes before happening with his victims being people he thought had wronged him in some way.
Ledger Joker would get the death penalty easily. He's fiendishly intelligent and criminally sophisticated, and most his crimes were planned out well in advance and executed with military-like precision, with others being done on cruel whims, and his victims included criminals, law enforcement, and an unknown number of innocent people- this includes those he murdered, but also those he terrorised or tortured. He's really just an eccentric sociopath with a sadistic and warped sense of humour, and worst still he expresses ideological motivations which makes him a terrorist, and an incredibly well organised one at that. Even though this lawyer would argue for insanity, I think even he knows that realistically he wouldn't get it- Ledger Joker knew EXACTLY what he is doing every step of the way.
Why is this so well done. Amazing work.
Great series guys!
This was really fun and entertaining! Thanks!
I love this series! Keep up the awesome work.
In real life he’d be up for the death penalty. People have killed far less and caused far less chaos and still gotten the penalty (at least there would be an attempt). Public perception would also be hostile.
But what if the defense was able to somehow prove that Harvey Dent had become Two-Face? And most of Two-Face's victims were people he had already been trying to bring to trial as Dent. Wouldn't there be some way to argue - okay, lie - that Dent was continuing to act as district attorney when he killed Sal Maroni as Two-Face, that the rest of Gotham's justice department knew about this beforehand and sanctioned it, and that therefore the city's judicial system did not have clean hands, would possibly attempt to game the system against the Joker, and that the Joker was entitled to a change of venue?
@@SeasideDetective2 Your last part you mentioned is basically what happens. Gotham police, Batman and Gordon covered up Dent's crimes at the end. There wouldn't be much evidence to prove that Harvey is guilty.
In real life he’d be killed in his cell like Eipstien
I say no because for some reason there is this rule in superhero fiction stories that have imprisoned villains where death penalty is "too easy" for them so they just lock them up in high security prisons.
The Joker would need to be fully psychoanalyzed? I've got a great doctor to recommend - a Ms. Quinn.
That’s Dr. Quinzel.
This is some high quality content, Screen Junkies! I love the idea of using film as a lens get us as an audience interested in science and law, and look forward to seeing what new fields you decide to delve into.
I love this series, make more!
Could we have tried Thanos if we had detained him in Endgame?
If so, in what court since he's an alien?
The court of wakanda
Well typically that would be Nova Corps' job to try him. Unfortunately they got obliterated before Infinity War.
The Joker from the Dark Knight wouldn't make it to a trial! The cops would kill him on site in the real world.
@@herojitful HAHAHA! That was actually a very funny reply. Thanks for the laugh.
👨🏾🦱🤡
@@herojitful um it happens to white people to
That was really good. :)
There is great joker comic I recommend. "Devil's advocate" by Chuck Dixon. The joker goes on trial for crime he didnt commit.
Excellent read. I love how deep it goes. There are so many layers, twists, and turns. It is one of those rare titles that you must read carefully 🦇
I love that book! It's fascinating how Joker reacts to the false accusations and justs laps up all the media attention he gets.
"Batman: White Knight," by Sean Murphy, actually has the Joker manipulating the legal system! After his makeup is removed and he is cured of his insanity (long story), Jack Napier files a countersuit on behalf of the entire city of Gotham, charging that Batman not only (arguably) attempted to murder him by pouring unauthorized medication down his throat, but that he destroyed property and drove recklessly while in pursuit (which he indeed had). More crucially, Napier takes a photograph of the Bat-signal on top of GCPD Headquarters, proving that Commissioner Gordon and his entire department are complicit in Batman's lawbreaking. This countersuit not only enables Napier to go free, but triggers anti-police protests all throughout Gotham! And THEN Napier runs for city councilman on an anti-police brutality and anti-Batman platform, and things get even crazier!
@@SeasideDetective2 This one's a GREAT story.
Good job guys! Hope you make this into a regular series and look into protagonists and antagonists from different movies and franchises. I would love to see a fictional divorce settlement of Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth Bennett from Pride and Prejudice!!!
I'd also love to see how the legal system would address the "hero" when they cause so much destruction trying to bring down the bad guy.
@Apoorva Sastry That's...quite specific.
@@murphythelatecomer4608 , I guess I am a huge Jane Austen fan.
Pride and Prejudice: A Marriage Story Story
@@mk6rfc1 that's a good one!
These are fun and insightful, Doug rocks
Really enjoying these takes on villains!
As cool as this vid is, kind of shows you how the justice system is broken. This guy shows perfectly how attornies can just jump sides at any time. Justice becomes secondary to winning cases and getting money
yeah, lawyers can pick sides, but there is a lawyer on both sides picking a side
Loving these ones. Great series.
Hopefully is a way to bring back Dr, Clifford V, Jonhson and his Science takes.
Imagine JOKER killing him instead of thanking him after the case is PERFECTLY OVER FOR JOKER🤟🏻
Good job guys, very interesting look at these movies. I'd like to see a legal defense or prosecution of Bruce Wayne if he was captured for all his vigilantism in the Nolan movies... Alot of property damage, breaking and entering, etc.
Any conviction would be constantly under appeal, each new court appearance would be another escape attempt or chances to create chaos and murder. That could be an entire Joker plan getting caught using the system to show the uselessness of it and just reek havoc while just taking a holiday in jail/ prison / asylum.
Please do one about Walter White, if he decided to turn himself in
well done! 😊
Legal eagle already did this. Joker is convicted of multiple murders, but it's batman who spends longer in jail because of invading the privacy of MILLIONS of Gotham citizens with the phone hacking app.
Considering Legal Eagle is a hack, he's not really who I want any legal insights from. Viva Frei is far more objective and balanced in his takes.
This is so fascinating
Great video, would love to see more
PS: come to think if it, that's why the joker in the comic is never just killed for his crimes, the legal side of this is way harder and takes forever, so there's plenty of time for him to escape and make his next move terrorising Gotham
Fun take. Love the angle on "fiction crime".
Throwing on dark Knight 4k now
Me, at 9pm: Alright, one more video
Me, at 2am:
If he wanted to escape, you can bet he would. It would be a dangerous situation indeed.
I honestly don’t think an insanity plea would work for this version of the Joker. Despite what this guy says, the Joker isn’t disconnected from reality. He couldn’t make such sophisticated plans if he was. He understands precisely what he’s doing and what the consequences will be. He just doesn’t care. He’s nihilistic and amoral, but he’s not delusional.
I agree. I don’t remember him having any delusions, except maybe a grandiose sense of the immorality of Gotham’s citizens, like all Batman villains.
This joker would have the insanity plea denied... his crimes are too planned out to be random ( needing allies on the inside of the police, for example... and not to mention the Bank heist at the start of the movie). He even says himself “I’m not crazy... I’m just ahead of the curve” said to Crime boss Gamble
Love it!
Power levels need to uploaded more but I like this series because it will have a faster turn over rate
I don't believe he'd get the death penalty. These crazy doctors would consider themselves studying him. Imo
You don't much about doctors then. I can already tell you what he has Antisocial personality disorder. He is a nihilist, a follower of the philosophy put forth by Frederick Nietzsche - that nothing matters.
There was a real case similar to that which happened in American court. The case of Leopard and Lobe.
@@Pope_Balenciaga Nietzsche isn't about being nihilistic. It's about overcoming Nihilism.
Joker would get disappeared by one of those acronym agencies the USA loves so much before he could see a lawyer. After getting incarcerated ofc.
I would love to see you guys do School of Rock. I've always wondered the real world repercussions of what wouldve happen to Jack Blacks character
OMG today i thought about this question.... and it appeared in my feed .... so scary,,,
I doubt the insanity defense would work. My understanding is that an insanity plea is only considered legitimate if the accused CAN’T understand what they have done - not that they are sociopaths (like The Joker). The Joker went to great lengths to protect himself, which means that he was worried about law enforcement apprehending him. If The Joker didn’t understand that what he was doing was illegal, he would just walk around Gotham without a care in the world.
Please review The Velocipastor. Omg!!
With trying to spoil the ending...do what one of the characters did in the end of Parasite!
I love this series
It'd be for the best.
Yo love your channel
Need the best criminal defense? “BETTER CALL SAUL."
there is no way the joker would allow them to get him off on an insanity plea. the insanity plea constitutes that he is not responsible for his actions & that just won't do. while the joker is clearly insane he's also acutely aware of just how awful what he's doing is but finds it positively hilarious. so in reality an insanity plea would never truly work because he can display he knows what he's doing. the joker is truly an agent of chaos.
Not guilty by reason on insanity just lands you into an insane ward that is another type of living hell.
Can y'all PLEASE do the Punisher ❤️❤️❤️
Can we get psychological evaluation of Uma Truman's Poison Ivy and
Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman!!
There's always the possibility that if you put joker through evaluations and interviews, at any time he might see an opportunity, kill somebody, and leave. Or if he feels like it, he might just go along with it.
I want to see that again with more villain and hero.
What's the betting that next week has Jack Nicholson's Joker?
Brent Dreher good bet...
Brent Dreher I think they’ve mentioned both Nicholson and Hamill will get an episode
@@TheSubZer0HEro they did and they are. I didn't realize at the time, but they specifically called out both of those on SJU. That's what happens when I watch the videos out of order, I guess
Nice shade of lipstick Doug!
The most disturbing fact about the Joker’s case is the police department aided his acts of terrorism.
Wow, I always figured that when these things happen in real life they’d be open and closed cases
Instead this just adds to how scary this Joker truly is
I like this series!
Man this movie more than 10 years old but people still keep talking about cus it is so good
Great stuff. I'm curious how many years Joker could expect if Gotham didn't have the death penalty but I'm guessing it's just whatever the maximum is.
Pigmiwarrior Entertainment natural life
There is no "maximum" in such cases. He'd be given multiple life sentences (ie. dozens at least) and numerous additional charges for bank robbery, hostage taking, terrorism etc.
You hear of cases where the perp is sentenced to several thousand years of prison time; that would be the MINIMUM of what Ledger could hope for.
After blowing up a police station, a judge, a hospital, poisoning a commissioner, “fatally” shooting a police lieutenant, taking hundreds hostage, racketeering with multiple crime bosses, and kidnapping a district attorney, if he’s not marked for an insanity charge, he’d be in jail until he was 900
After that many murders and attempted murders, how could he not
Please do honest trailer of American Gangster
He would just take someone hostage and then the person with bomb inside his stomach would explode and help him get away
Honestly that’s a good question, especially considering the ongoing conversation about the death penalty in the US. I doubt he’d get it though, but who knows.
A self proclaimed agent of chaos such as the joker would never allow himself to be tried in a court of law imo...he would probably pull of some sort of menacing suicide before trial to cement his legacy.
He wouldn't kill himself. He would use the trial as an opportunity to have more fun.
This guy needs more books on his shelves, it looks like he’s in the process of moving office
"Do you know how I got these scars? I was holding gas inside and refused to let out a fart. I failed, but it changed it's trajectory."
no question, he killed his own henchmen, the guy who put a bounty on his head, attempted murder on the mayor, demolition of a hospital etc
It is very interesting to wonder where the Joker was before he got to Gotham, especially since he doesn’t appear to be in the system
“Terrorism far beyond any other Joker we’ve seen...”
Ummm, Batman ‘66 Joker was in on a warhead theft & ‘89 Joker fatally gassed a public setting.
Edit: Two public settings ‘89 Joker fatally gassed.
Ding ding ding this video is sensationalism. Entertainment for people who won't overthink it.
I myself overthought the video when it was stated having a trial where Joker would not have access to attendees would be impossible, considering the amount of remote trials that have taken place during the pandemic.
I can say probs
The Boston Bomber just wiggled his away out of the Death Penalty. The Joker would be fiiiine.
Letting him take the stand is a VERY risky move, but there’s a chance that he could manipulate the jury and judge. Wether or not that’s a good thing is debatable
Dang
Batman broke more laws than Joker in the Dark Knight. LOL
If they had the death penalty in comics they'd burn through villains in 15 issues.
In Texas he would
The joker has such a high kill count they’d probably execute him in the middle of trial lmaoo
The Joker seems a little too smart to get the death penalty. He probably had some information to offer that would get him off of death row and into a life sentence
Do the Sad-it’s animations for honest trailers
Dream smp ones
Imagine that the joker is rehabilitated and has a job like a janitor at a school and setting up a Christmas tree in December with his wife and kids 😆
Do the kingpin from Netflix's daredevil. and Kilgrave from jessica jones
IRL he would definitely succeed in getting an Insanity verdict, anyone remember the Aurora shooting, he almost got away with an Insanity verdict and the Joker in the Dark Knight did not actually kill as many people as that guy did IRL
Joker killed way more people than James Holmes did. Holmes killed 12 (he was sentenced twice for each) and injured 70; Ledger might have personally killed 12 just in the police station he blew up, never mind the people he shot or sliced with his knife, and that isn't counting all of the deaths he organised or ordered.
Ledger is also guilty of way more crimes than just murdering people- kidnapping, bank robbery, torture, city-wide threats, terrorism, at least three public incidents were he took multiple people hostage....
Pretty hilarious that the opinion of the profession criminal justice worker is basically that it's best you have Batman to take him out XD
If anyone wants to know the continuation of the dark knight they did the dark knight returns part 1 and part 2 and shows you the conclusion of the joker
The failure of a single soul is the failure of society
It’s interesting, because Joker is insane. But the insane plea is more on understanding your actions. In other words, you can be both insane and know exactly what you’re doing. Regardless, trying the joker would only be him enjoying the process of him being tried, then after dragging everyone through the mud, and getting the death penalty, he would escape custody. Because he’s the joker.
If I were the defense, I'd insist on...uhhh...whatever the guy's real name is taking the stand in full Joker makeup, having convinced the Joker to do so (if the Joker hadn't already come up with that idea himself). I'd argue that it wasn't an attempt to disguise his appearance, because those lip scars are always visible and there's no mistaking who he is. Then he'd be "in character" and would act up a lot more, turning the trial into a farce with his constant howling laughter and maybe even attempting to kill the prosecutor, the judge, or one of the other witnesses. I'm sure the judge would not only find him in contempt, but order that he be gagged to muffle his laughter and maybe even straitjacketed to keep from attacking people. Then I'd be GUARANTEED an insanity plea!
Yes
More more more 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾 how about the Batman if he get locked up
3:13 bookmark
So that's actually an excuse for why Joker hasn't been executed yet, that works way better than the canon one.
Instead of someone like Joker continuosly being put in Arkham Asylum where he's demonstrated time and time again that he can break free from, he would simply break out of jail before the trial was over, because the whole process would take literally years to finish.
Each time they get close to finally sentencing him, he has people kill the prosecutor or judge, meaning that someone else has to take over which will take even more time. And he just keeps breaking out of whatever holding facility they put him in.