Oswin Benjamin said this line but slightly different in a freestyle on Sway In the Morning. "Until lions learn to write from their own perspective, every story told will be glorifying the hunter". Preach.
Considering the jokers scars are likely a result of combat. Not because of a drunk father or self inflicted for his wife. His ability to tactically plan out operations , knowledge with weapons , explosives and ability to drive a large truck which requires experience and normally a CDL to be capable of . All points to a veteran who came home to find his home being controlled by thugs and mobsters with corrupt officials turning a blind eye to the problems. His wife he speaks of likely killed herself or was killed for outstanding debts to the scum of Gotham. That is likely what set an otherwise peaceful veteran off. And created this version of the joker. As he seems to have nothing but hate and disdain for thugs and mobsters . His actions show this throughout the movie.
I think you missed the most important part. The Ferries, i think that was the ultimate test for Joker to see if the city was worth saving. If either ferry blew up, it meant the people of Gotham had been corrupted and Joker would've probably given up and let Batman take him into custody with Harvey killing Gordon's family and effectively plunging the city into chaos. Joker let Batman know because the ferries reaffirmed the idea the city could be fixed. Like in Joker's "Everybody loses there minds" speech the idea is that Gotham should fundamentally realize the weight of every single life, from the gang bangers to soldiers. The message in the ferry scene is that the lives aboard are equal regardless if your a petty criminal or a scared civilian. The Joker's line about liking knifes because it allows the Joker to be more intimate with his victim then a gun, he understands the purpose and weight of every single murder he commits.
@Acid gameplay eh he wanted to rile up the batman. thats why he said it and made sure bat heard it. if he wanted to actually blow both up he had PLENTY of time.
The Joker's joke was on society. What he wanted was proof that everyone can be a murderer and psychopath like he is. And when that didn't work, he told batman about harvey dent, because he knew if he could have gotham, he'd have at least batman. The Joker is not a hero, not even an anti-hero. He accidentally saved a city when he tried to destroy it, all because he thought it would be a funny joke. THAT is the Joker.
The Dark Knight got me thinking about how values alone shouldn’t define people. I noticed that The Joker achieved things that I strive for. He let go of vices, lives in the moment and doesn’t expect a reward. However, he twisted those values into something horrifying.
Duh, obviously he was talking about himself....I bet he did so many bad shit in his service that he makes pain look like a better boy scout than superman.
Oh no that man was still be going to the electric chair No wait I truly think it'll be decapitation (from a holy blade such as Wonder Woman's) then burning of the body would And throwing the ashes into space work
So he’s saying he knows he’s the villain. Maybe in a broader sense the Joker really is just an extremely ill man and Batman can’t kill him because he’s morally opposed to killing an ill person, but no effort to lock him up works, and this quote is his acknowledgment that he’s the villain because he’d rather save his own conscious by not killing the Joker, which thereby allows many people to get hurt as a result.
That's why I don't like shows or movies where they think they are evil. Nobody thinks they are evil. Others may think it ab them, but they see themselves and what they're doing as heroic
How DID they catch the Joker? By using that Bat echolocator. I thought that was the "burn the forest" thing. But the Joker "stealing" the Mafia money so they can no longer bribe/control the Gotham justice system... Quite spot on. But HEY...
The whole ‘agent of chaos’ thing could be the joker making the metaphors that there has to be a bit of chaos before there can be order, it creates a balance.
true and in fact joker did save gotham in the end think about it no corruption no orginzied crime for 8 years till bane shows up so yeah i do belive joker is actually the hero in a messed up but good way
Or maybe, the word "Agent of Chaos" here means Joker was created by the chaos that Batman created and he is here for one mission, to restore balance onto the city.
I see Batman like that guy who wants to keep his job and just fix certain things slowly, while Joker is that guy who doesn't care about keeping his job he just wants to see the whole system revamped
@Octopus Of the nine realms Batman "became a villain" at the end of the movie in order to preserve Harvey Dent/Two-Face's public image. But this video is basically implying that Batman had already become a villain - or at the very least, complicit in Gotham's corruption - without realizing it.
Joker is the reverse card of " you either die a hero. Or live long enough to see yourself become a villain". Joke is " you either die a villain . or live long enough to see yourself become a hero "
Well this just makes so much sense and gives me even more reason to love the joker as a “villain”. These kind of superhero stories have always irritated me in that the “hero” spends their time fighting crime and putting the bad guys in jail when there’s generally a much larger underlying reason for such crime in the first place. They have all of the resources and means to be able to eradicate crime from the bottom up but get fixated on the more surface level petty crimes that they don’t see the big picture. This take on the story where the joker is actually the “hero” perfectly reflects a lot of the pretences and issues in our society. Also, it totally makes sense to call the joker a consequentialist in his beliefs rather than just a crazy man who’s sole goal is chaos (though there’s no denying that he isn’t entirely sane). We even studied scenes of this film when doing a lesson about utilitarianism is religious studies.
“How about I cut you up into little pieces and feed you to your pooches. Then we’ll see how loyal a hungry dog really is” This one quote can perfectly describe the message Joker was trying to convey upon Gotham through the whole movie.
Joker:*kills thousands of people to save millions of people* if want to have something you have to lose something and most of the people that were killed were bad people
Aryan Kakar joker was a manipulator. He lied about his past, his motives, not to mention trying to kill dents girlfriend without remorse. He clearly was a psychopath, but whether or not he was trying to save Gotham was debatable
exactly, Joker is not an agent of chaos or even "not afraid of death" he just wants others to think that he is. This is how he is able to get out of the mob meeting because everyone there thinks that Joker is crazy and will not mind killing himself with them. He created a reputation for himself so everyone thinks of him a certain way to distract from his actual plan (First impression is the last impression). People to label things a certain way so as to not spend mental energy thinking about it, and everyone thinks of Joker as the crazy person who is just doing it for the lols (what Alfred and Bruce think of Joker) and because of this categorization he never acts the way people expects him to, he seems chaotic.
The whole point of that speech was always to let the audience know he does have a plan. He isn’t “an agent of chaos” in the usual sense of the word, he’s unbelievably methodical and meticulous in his scheme, he just needs to play into an extremely common fear of the unknown.
@Psywriter 1989 Joker said "This town needs an enema", you're probably too young to know about it. Here's the scene. ua-cam.com/video/a1Tpe-dbPQI/v-deo.html It's another way of saying "this town needs to flush out the shit out of its system so it feels better".
@@Cajek2 he's not responsible for the crime, only the escalation of it. Even in the comics whenever Batman's villains have a meet up they OFTEN talk about how the only reason they have gone as far with their evil plans is because batman pushed them to that degree of desperation. An example, at one point Mr. Freeze tried to freeze the world as part of a larger scheme... he stated he only attempted that because he knew batman would stop him (because deep down he knows the implication would be dire for humanity and he is not really a "bad guy morally") and that his "real goal" was just to secure stolen funding/materials along the way to keep his wife alive... which he also accomplished. In that same comic poison ivy remarks that while she's tried multiple times to wipe out humanity to make room for her plants she'd ideally be willing to settle if humanity would just stop destroying the rain forests/polluting and allowed her to grow plants capable of defending themselves there. Since she knows batman will stop her anyway she feels pressured to step up her threats so that people take her message seriously should she ever HAPPEN to win.
Cajek Batman is not responsible for crime, he is the incentive that drove crime, which is why his retirement was indeed the solution to crime in Gotham. I thought this was so obvious Film Theory would not ever find themselves covering this. I guess I was wrong. Regardless, that was kind of the entire point of not only Dark Knight, but Dark Knight Rises.
If Heath Ledger survived, not only he would've been in "The Dark Knight Rises" but the theory of him being a the real hero of Gotham probably would've been explored.
He was supposed to be in the Dark Knight Rises in some form. I think he was connected to League of Shadows. Surprised there isn't movie theories about that.
@@volbound1700tdk rises was amazing but it still had some issues and sadly most of them were because of the unexpected death of heath ledger. They had work with what they could.
I was thinking about it, and through that, it really wouldn't be hard to pull comparisons to what's happening in Gotham to real life gentrification you know, making things look good and doing very superficial fixes but leaving the impoverished behind and comparing gentrification to colonization and idk how well it actually stands within the movie, but an interesting thought none-the-less.
It makes so much sense what joker was trying to do. He was actually doing everyone a favor. He got rid of the mob and their money, got rid of the corrupted hierarchy, and broke Batman’s ideology. Batman was the cancer joker was trying to exterminate as prove that everyone can change no matter what you believe in or who you are. In the end they were all helping each other without knowing it.
Yeah - that Dude at the beginning is like “My dogs are hungry!” Part of Joker’s world view is that people have a dog eat dog mentality. Joker set out to prove that people will destroy others to protect their own best interests and there is no social responsibility to community. Batman’s / Bruce’s contention is that there are still good people in Gotham - like the vast MINORITY 😕 of the Gothamites on the boat that voted against blowing up the criminals. And there are some good police as Gordon remains unfailingly selfless throughout the Trilogy. There’s also the scene where Joker threatens to cut that same mobster up into little pieces and feed him to his hungry pooches which again signifies the point that the dogs will not be loyal to their master when push comes to shove. It’s a pretty descriptive graphic 😳. One wonders if he did exactly that. Either way, Joker has those dogs working for him at the end in the skyscraper when he sics them on Batman. Even the police have their dogs that chase Batman after he tells Gordon to “call it in”. At that point I’m reminded of exactly what you said about Joker comparing himself to a dog chasing cars - so it’s almost like the Joker is personified by those police dogs which have switched loyalties like their masters as they chased Batman to his Batpod - and into that eight year long retirement. Joker won. Yeah Nolan has a whole “dog eat dog / there’s no such thing as real, lasting loyalty” motif going on in this movie. It’s brilliant because humanity already accepts that a dog can be and most often is the MOST unquestionably loyal form of life on the planet - but you have the Joker subverting that idea and putting humanity on trial by saying we’re no better than a pack of hungry dogs. So why should Batman be putting himself out for Gotham? That’s what Joker is basically saying to him in the interrogation room at MCU.
That's actually the key to why he is the best villain and why batman is the best hero. Neither has powers. Instead of making them more powerful, they made them more interesting. Moriarty is also somewhat timeless for the same reason and it was vital for Doyle to make Moriarty to provide a good villain for Holmes. We don't actually like good superheroes. We like relatable superheroes that overcome through provoking and genuinely unsettling villains.
@@eschelar although I'll agree that the joker is one of the best villains, I don't agree that batman is the best super hero. Maybe for Gotham level villains but once you get to justice league level baddies, the only reason batman is so successful is plot armor by the writers.
Heath Ledger's Joker is everyone's favourite joker. The way he outsmarts batman and the rest of gotham is just one of the 100's of reasons I love this joker.
Heath ledger's joker alongside Mark Hamill's joker will always be them definitive in quintessential Jokers to me they're just that fucking good of a villain to prove a point all it takes is one bad day🃏
The money burning scene, the thing that made me realize how crazy Joker was was when he said "gas is cheap" at a time when gas was at it's most expensive ever and everyone was talking about how expensive gas was.
@@MySerpentine The Joker: if I was to kill a gang banger or blow up a truck full of soldiers nobody says anything but one ole mayor gets killed. Everybody loses there minds. Me: that's a clever for the scenes where you have one boat full of prisoners and the other boat full of innocent people. If the innocent people blows up to boat full of prisoners nobody will say anything but if the prisoners blows up the boat full of innocents then everyone loses there minds. There is method in the Joker's madness
@@angelmendez-rivera351 his plan to clean up Gotham was sickening but it worked. The Joker also show Batman in order to make Gotham crime free you must kill otherwise what's the point. You can't clean up the city without breaking a few eggs
Lee Johnstone Exactly. I think the thesis of the movie is that sometimes, there is no good, ethical choice to be made to fix the problems, and not fixing them is not any more ethical either.
This really touches on the question of heros in general. All villains usually just keep coming back stronger. Villains get more and more dangerous just to take down the hero and civilians usually end up getting caught in the crossfire. Which makes you wonder, if there were no heros would the criminals feel the need to make drastic moves/upgrades. Because the heros are the ones who corner the villains into desperation which makes them more dangerous. For me this really brings the idea of balance into question.
Well, most of the villans would still exists with or without the heroes. Without the heroes there probably won't be as much destructive fights, but the villans would also be able to deal much more damage before the government decides to nuke them, killing more civillans in the process.
lonemeraki balance can only be achieved when the oppressors are killed off because once you’ve become an oppressor then you’ve over stepped and have broken the balance
lonemeraki And it’s a solid question, I’ve thought about it a lot... but! At the end of the day you will always have the villain who rejoices in the fact there isn’t need to hero’s. And kills a shitload of people.
There is a point to make on the "throwing them away" part though. They were using the gems to bribe the local leaders, which means the gems had to have a certain value within their society. If you were just throwing them away as stones, handing it to childrens as trinkets, etc, you could very well end depreciating their relative value to the point were they would mean nothing to the leaders Alfred was trying to bribe. There is a certain anime called "C: The power of soul and possibility control" that uses a somewhat similar plot at a certain point. Some characters gather a shitton of local currency and start dropping it in the middle of cities from choppers, unloading it on stores, etc. This causes markets and the local population to panic, to the point their local currency devaluates to 0 as everyone tries to exchange their currency into foreign ones fearing some kind of foul play (which was indeed being caused by some random magic stuff happening in the background too, but both go hand-in-hand).
@Andrew Cox I was buying in to the theory, until you pointed out the other plot points. You're totally correct and this Film Theory is bunk. Gotham's (and batman's) justice was slow and seemed ineffective, but it never committed the moral wrong of hurting the innocent to get things done. That moral wrong remained on the mob. And the Joker just went crazy with the cheeze whiz in that regard. He didn't care who he hurt. The scene where joker murders the fake batman vigilante (in hockey pads) on video, which he then sends to the news, and THEN drops the guys corpse on a rope outside the window of the Mayor's office, that illustrates the utterly amoral behavior of the joker.
@Andrew Cox Joker wanted the mob as well as Batman gotten rid of. As stated the existence of Batman made the mobs stronger to fight for the police. Therefore he had to rob the bank and begin his whole elaborate plan to cure Gotham once and for all of both of them. It would be easy for Batman to stop the mobs but who's to say criminals wouldn't come back stronger because Batman still exists.
In my mind I assume joker died shortly after we last see him by cutting the string Batman had him hanging with and fell to his death because we don't see him in TDKR. He probably figured he had accomplished everything he tried too.
@MARK PEARSON just from reading your comments I can tell what type of person you are, and the Joaquin Phoenix joker is at the same level as heath ledger's joker in my opinion, but it's still hard to compare them when they are in 2 very different styled movies.
@MARK PEARSON Omg I'm so tired of hearing the words "I didnt like it because it was sad", thats literally the point, thats was what the director was going for. What did you think you were going to watch? And wdym he sounds gay? That's his voice in the movie, just because someone has a higher pitched voice doesn't suddenly make them gay, and the way that he acts and dances is just how he is, I mean he is crazy after all, why would you expect him to act like a normal person would.
He actually had the right Idea for Gotham, the only way to fix that corrupt city was to cause chaos for all of the powerful people in charge, mafia, corrupt cops, and vigilantes
@Wily Wyvern // Metal Dragon Productions We're talking about the Dark Knight Gotham where the justice system is also corrupt though. You can't always buy your way out, but that's only the case when someone who can let you out can't be bought.
@@darklord884 true but even if you Think sometimes you just don't Think about somting like this. I for Instanz did Think more about the Philosophie like what the movie wants to tell like one of the many Interpretations is cause and effect and powersrugels like a thug Kills the Patents if bruce wayne so he wants to help gotham. He becomes batman so the Balance of Power is out of Balance so somebody like the joker emerges. So you coud say the joker exists bcause of batman. Two Face/Harvey Dent Kills a lot of pepole batman takes the blame. Dent gets idolized as a hero. So the the dent act gets created.(do to a so called Nobel lie a lie with good Intend but still a lie) With the dark Knight rises and batman begins in mind you coud say because ra's al guhl tried to "burn gotham to the ground" batman stoped him thalia al guhl tries to destroy gotham to Finish what her father started. The entier Nobel lie about dent being innocent gets toren Down and well in the end of the movie gotham gets saved batman celebrated as a hero and because bruce wayne left sutch an Impression on john blake he takes up the Mantel of batman probably becoming Robin the cycle beginnes a new. Powestrugell imbalence of Power and so on
@@christophbeck1305 Please do go on. I am very curious about this so called thug who murdered Bruce Wayne's PATENTS. I wasn't aware he had any, but okay.
This makes me want to rewatch dark knight again its compatible to the comic when joker expose batman and not even joker in general was created to get payback on criminals honestly if u actually read up or pay attention to the killing joke 🤔...... something similar to the punisher but disguise as a clown and batman was the reason he fell into the acid it makes alot of sense to expose batman mojarity of criminals are being brutally beaten and most of their accidents are created by the batman he's the reason their the way they are mainly he cripples them it's no different than damaging or committing a crime🤔......
Now that scene where Batman catches the Joker and the Joker is upside down but the camera pans around to put him right side up makes a lot more sense. As if to say that Batman was really the one who was upside down
"The men who think they're doing all the protecting are the ones who burn down the forest, then they blame the man who just wants to save his home." Yep. This is the exact sentiment said in the story that inspired the Joker's creation in the first place: "The Man Who Laughs" by Victor Hugo.
I don't appreciate french writers to be completely honest but let's be honest it's not the first time that the reactions of men are unpredictable we see it every day "by taking medicine we are making the disease much stronger" and so on so maybe what we believe is helping other isn't actually helping them but making them worse sometimes to act with humans you need to look three steps forward to see whether they will help themselves first .
@@ahmedmejri5465 True, but that's not the shortcoming pointed out in Alfred's story or Hugo's novel. Alfred and his friends were working for the British Empire to further its imperialistic goals, not in the best interest of the Burmese locals. Likewise in "The Man Who Laughs", its title character, Gwynplaine, is a boy who is disfigured as a punishment to his rebellious nobleman father. In both cases, Alfred and his friends and the political enemies of Gwynplaine's father felt they were upholding the status quo and yet all they were doing was maintaining the power of those who didn't have the best interests of people they were meant to serve at heart. In short, they were maintaining an unequal society and political corruption under the guise of upholding the correct order of things.
"I'm like a dog chasing cars i wouldn't know what to do with one if i caught one" No you are a dog who places nails on the road to get the truck to crash into an electrical pole to lure the mailman out of his truck just so that you get an opportunity to chase him
If Batman had died earlier on, he would have just been some guy who tried his hardest to make the world better & died fighting crime. Instead, by living long enough he was able to reflect on his actions & realise that he was causing harm followed by choosing to make Batman responsible for the crimes he had committed.
Slight problem, he explicitly says he only burned his half of the money. He didn't bankrupt the mafia, not even close. Also batman doesn't retire at the end of this film he retires at some other point within the eight years in between films, he's still clearly active at the end of the film.
He burned Lau with money. Which means all money is gone. Remember in the Pencil scene, when Lau said only he knows where all the money is, to avoid getting tracked by cops.
“Some men just want to watch the world burn” isn’t a literal statement. The thief in Burma stole because he wanted to expose the greed and materialism of the people he stole from. He wanted to mock them and the lengths they would go to in order to catch him. The very act of burning the forest was yet another way in which he exposed their greed. His intention wasn’t to make them burn the forest, it was to expose their greed.
I do believe that "the dark knight" refers to the joker himself, an evil man who besides being evil is still doing everything he can to defend his kingdom
I think another important point is that the act of burning the forest down was itself cruel.I mean they went to another nation,tried to bribe their leaders,and when a bandit tried to resist,they burnt an entire forest down to catch him?? Think of all the people and animals and resources that would have been lost in that fire
The Joker in this is like a Nihilist with too much fire power. If you notice he has a pretty stable moral code that he sticks to, basically he thinks everyone is capable of the same evils and everyone is only one situation from doing unspeakable things i.e. the boat scene where they'd try to blow one up.
You think it's easy putting on that suit? That thing doesn't forgive an INCH. okay I started this comment totally as a joke, but I just realized after I finished the above sentence. Batman only really seems to do any free, open movement when he's actually doing all his karate moves. The large majority of moving from one given spot to another in any non-super closed in crime environment, he has some gadget to propel or pull him. He uses his vehicles like crazy. He lifts weights and bangs out push ups, but apparently dude never does ANY cardio. He's legitimately constantly out of breath.
To be fair, it might have to do with the fact as a people we're pretty against strict controlling bodies. Though there is definitely a case to be made that in many scenarios joker becomes a heroic villain. Given his entire goal is usually boiled down to 'take down the bodies of powers around with a psychopath's paint brush'. Though I will say this, I hope at some point we get a version of his and harley's relationship that's far more Bonny and Clide than abuser and abusey. I realize it's a weird take, but the that the two of them just bring out the literal worst in each other is a neat way to write their relationship. Still plenty of reason for them to split up, but it's a more interesting take than 'girl meets boy, boy meets toy'.
@@collinsnow2203 even if that was a accident the scene right next to where he reads his speech about the ferries is not The point is he made up him being an agent of chaos to get Dent on his side
RIP Heath Ledger. Absolute legend bro. With him at the helm Joker could do no wrong. He definitely holds a special place in all of our hearts. This theory is nice cause it adds a level of dignity to his already awesome legacy. Besides Joker he had such a diverse and dynamic acting career, I don’t mean to digress but I loved him as Casanova. But personally he was the Joker I was exposed to, grew up with and I’m grateful. That talented man gave this character his all and it shows, absolutely amazing performance and wonderful theory. Also I’m glad you hired the man who made that popular theory. I love seeing my boys cop the bag, hope y’all are doing well. Anyways, sorry for the rant if you read this far have a blessed day you wonderful child of light. I love you.
Thats why he clapped for gorden becoming police commissioner that was part of his plan all along that's what he wanted to happen ... the joker wanted to get caught so gorden can get promoted and that's why he killed the corrupt ex pollice captain to clear corruption in gothams police force .... In the video matpat mentioned that joker knows the actions and reactions ... getting caught was the action....and the explotion with the phone in that mans chest was the RE-action so he could break free from the jail... And another thing,, he was the one to take down the mob not batman
Considering how intellectual Nolan's dark knight trilogy is, this actually makes perfect sense. The joker is - just like in a card game - the perfect hero card you can play in order to win. Very well researched.
This video is the exact reason why we love Heath Ledger’s Joker. Joker isn’t a maniac who does random shit, he is very smart in planning and psychology in such a way that his actioncs look insane and crazy
You mightbe surprised to know he does have a super power, jokers super power is, super sanity. He is who he will always be, no drug can alter jokers perspective.
Joker is a more of a alternative values to the current system, if he were born in another century he might very well be kings and lords.. Jokers creating is from his understanding of the society fabric, he relationship with batman is like "good cop bad cop" theme.. if he was in GoT.. then he would be like little finger..
@@rabbitbobo4131 you dont know much about joker, this is some wild shot in the dark. Yes there is a good cop bad cop, but jokers point isnt for the 14 and deep people, its actually much more of a mature theme. Cops and robbers is the game but, joker constantly hints at the reasons why batman really does it, its not because batman is a hero.
Mat could have stated that this interpretation of Joker is more in line with the philosophy of Anarchy, which is akin to chaos because it seeks to abolish/undermine/disrupt hierarchies in favor of returning power/control to communities. (Ideally in an egalitarian manner...and not harming said communities)
Hot take: Heath Ledger's Joker never wanted to kill Batman. He would never have gone along with Bane's plan, and might very well have teamed up with Batman and Catwoman to stop the destruction of Gotham.
Well Joker said it in the film literally that he doesn't want to kill batman. Some thing like "what would I do without you? You complete me." Traditionally Joker keeps batman alive since he is the ultimate resistance and absolute point of opposition to Joker's existence. Without someone who can replace Batman, Joker would simply seize to exist.
No they got rich by making youtube videos. Until demonetization came along and youtube came up to them in person to shoot them. Bruce, however, got Honey.
Petition to put Matt pat in the evil villain pub
⬇️
You, my good lad, are supporting a good cause.
I second that good sir!
He should go there
Lmao pinned
Ooooh doubling the cringe ? I like that !
The scene that Joker was clapping after hearing that Gordon is the new commissioner makes more sense now
and that scene was improvised by Ledger
@@resurekt97 oh! Interesting. How do you know that? 👀
More likely it was just him mocking him...
Yep, and to think that scene was improvised by one of my favorite actors
Wow
This reminds me of a African proverb I read about once:
"Until lions have their own historians, the hunter will always be the hero of the story"
So the Joker is a lion now? Call MatPat, that's going to be his next theory!
@Thomas Emilio *and
Oswin Benjamin said this line but slightly different in a freestyle on Sway In the Morning. "Until lions learn to write from their own perspective, every story told will be glorifying the hunter".
Preach.
@@W.S._Ortega Damn! Mad props to you for referencing Sway in the Morning while on this channel.
This is weird, we don't like hunters anymore, so are we lion historians now?
"To defeat evil, I must become a greater evil" -Lelouch vi Britannia
the joker took this very seriously
Considering the jokers scars are likely a result of combat. Not because of a drunk father or self inflicted for his wife. His ability to tactically plan out operations , knowledge with weapons , explosives and ability to drive a large truck which requires experience and normally a CDL to be capable of . All points to a veteran who came home to find his home being controlled by thugs and mobsters with corrupt officials turning a blind eye to the problems.
His wife he speaks of likely killed herself or was killed for outstanding debts to the scum of Gotham. That is likely what set an otherwise peaceful veteran off. And created this version of the joker. As he seems to have nothing but hate and disdain for thugs and mobsters . His actions show this throughout the movie.
@@John2r1I like that theory
Why so serious?
Haha
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Also keep in mind the Joker could have blown up that hospital when everyone was still inside it but instead gave everyone a chance to get out first.
Tbf he likes the chaos, not the attacks
And it was incentive for the ppl to try and kill a guy
Gabriel Jordan he wanted Harvey dent alone
He wanted/needed to get harvey dent alone so he could manipulate him,like he was trying to do to batman
Gabriel Jordan sadly
@Wily Wyvern // Metal Dragon Productions how do you know he was gonna blow up the ships? Because he said so?
HAS THIS THEORY TAUGHT YOU NOTHING?!
I think you missed the most important part. The Ferries, i think that was the ultimate test for Joker to see if the city was worth saving. If either ferry blew up, it meant the people of Gotham had been corrupted and Joker would've probably given up and let Batman take him into custody with Harvey killing Gordon's family and effectively plunging the city into chaos. Joker let Batman know because the ferries reaffirmed the idea the city could be fixed. Like in Joker's "Everybody loses there minds" speech the idea is that Gotham should fundamentally realize the weight of every single life, from the gang bangers to soldiers. The message in the ferry scene is that the lives aboard are equal regardless if your a petty criminal or a scared civilian. The Joker's line about liking knifes because it allows the Joker to be more intimate with his victim then a gun, he understands the purpose and weight of every single murder he commits.
😶😶😶👏👏👏
I have no words...
@Acid gameplay eh he wanted to rile up the batman. thats why he said it and made sure bat heard it. if he wanted to actually blow both up he had PLENTY of time.
That's just smart.
The Joker's joke was on society. What he wanted was proof that everyone can be a murderer and psychopath like he is. And when that didn't work, he told batman about harvey dent, because he knew if he could have gotham, he'd have at least batman.
The Joker is not a hero, not even an anti-hero.
He accidentally saved a city when he tried to destroy it, all because he thought it would be a funny joke.
THAT is the Joker.
either die a villian, or live long enough for matpat to make you a hero
He died a villain :(
@@andrelintner9150 but lived long enough in our hearts to become a so called "hero"
@@andrelintner9150 wait? Joker died?
@@goji-0045 yep
@@neonsky77 not permanently
The Dark Knight got me thinking about how values alone shouldn’t define people. I noticed that The Joker achieved things that I strive for. He let go of vices, lives in the moment and doesn’t expect a reward. However, he twisted those values into something horrifying.
“Let go of vices”? He murdered a LOT of people, can’t get any more full of vice than that.
if you dont know someone's intent look at the aftermath of his actions
@@delanovanraalte3646following that logic batman is a evil maniac tho
“You’re killing millions...”
“... to save billions.”
-Ozamandias
Evan James *Laughs in Pharaoh*
DAJA KU
@@stevekujo8716 with Dio voice insert as well.
Perfectly balenced...As all things should be.
@JusticeGraceful its Rorschach not warshack
"Out of chaos comes order"- Nietzsche
"I'm an agent of chaos"- Joker
Well played sir
Are you implying that the Joker creates order by threatening civilian lives with bombs? Or by turning an actually righteous prosecutor insane?
@@darklord884 common enemy unites
@@nuguns3766 Did Hitler create order then? The danger he posed united the allies after all, no?
Does this mean you fight fire with fire?????🤔
Jung: the fool is the precursor to the savior
Alfred: some men just wanna watch the world burn
Also Alfred: we burned the forest down
Duh, obviously he was talking about himself....I bet he did so many bad shit in his service that he makes pain look like a better boy scout than superman.
Music Sucks You got a point there.
never thought of that
Trying to tell him what he was going to have to do to catch joker.
@@chonkyboi7542 burning down a forest to catch a jewel thief. You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain
If MatPat was The Joker’s defense lawyers Joker probably wouldn’t have had a life sentence lol
But I mean he would probably be charged with 2 first degree murder and attempted murder and probably more that I dont remember
omg its alia add arson and technically being a mob boss
Yeah that to and a bank robbery
Oh no that man was still be going to the electric chair
No wait I truly think it'll be decapitation (from a holy blade such as Wonder Woman's) then burning of the body would
And throwing the ashes into space work
@Juggled Lotus lol
Joker : "Gasolines are cheap"
People in 2022 : "Nice joke buddy"
No, people say, "And I thought my jokes were bad"
At least cheaper than guns and bullets
That is not exactly the line
After all, he is a "joke"r
"Yeah thats a good one buddy, no wonder why they call you The Joker."
"In my years of fighting crime l learned one thing. Every villain is a hero in their own story..." - Bruce Wayne in Injustice 2
VampRune Dude, I love the Injustice Storyline.
They're also a cowardly and superstitious lot.
@@FutureDeep or are they? Its all about perspective after all. You may see one thing but others may see something else.
@@bryantamon8633 🤯
So he’s saying he knows he’s the villain. Maybe in a broader sense the Joker really is just an extremely ill man and Batman can’t kill him because he’s morally opposed to killing an ill person, but no effort to lock him up works, and this quote is his acknowledgment that he’s the villain because he’d rather save his own conscious by not killing the Joker, which thereby allows many people to get hurt as a result.
“You can’t see yourself as a villain when you think you’re the hero”👏🏽
This explains both Republicans and Democrats perfectly.
State of Opportunity facts
Almost nobody sees themselves as the villain of the story
Simple, Be an anti-hero
That's why I don't like shows or movies where they think they are evil. Nobody thinks they are evil. Others may think it ab them, but they see themselves and what they're doing as heroic
That Alfred in Burma bribing leaders had always went over my mind, so clear now... WoW
I always thought it was cruel, but I never gave it deep thought as these guys did.
How DID they catch the Joker? By using that Bat echolocator. I thought that was the "burn the forest" thing.
But the Joker "stealing" the Mafia money so they can no longer bribe/control the Gotham justice system... Quite spot on. But HEY...
wait what????
@@reconx86 pls explain
@@edp-gb6yz Alfred is the real villian in his own story @12:11
The whole ‘agent of chaos’ thing could be the joker making the metaphors that there has to be a bit of chaos before there can be order, it creates a balance.
true and in fact joker did save gotham in the end think about it no corruption no orginzied crime for 8 years till bane shows up so yeah i do belive joker is actually the hero in a messed up but good way
Or maybe, the word "Agent of Chaos" here means Joker was created by the chaos that Batman created and he is here for one mission, to restore balance onto the city.
order in chaos
Exactly
Think of Joker as Gotham’s fever. When you’re sick your body “torments” you with symptoms to expel sickness. Joker tormented Gotham to expel crime
Wow. That's. Impressive! Good job
simpler solution is more cow bells.
At least the villian of the Dark Knight wasn't Light Yagami, or any of the other Kiras from Death Note. Things would have gone WAAAYYY worse!
@@cedriclee7110 Yeah. Raw cowbell gets the job done.
@Smirking Loli True but I think the point is that the end result is better than before.
I see Batman like that guy who wants to keep his job and just fix certain things slowly, while Joker is that guy who doesn't care about keeping his job he just wants to see the whole system revamped
So Alex Shelley is Batman, Joker is Joey Matthews and Gotham is RoH.
In Code Geass, Suzaku is Batman while Lelouch is Joker.
Literally me at my job
Slow and steady wins the race(?)
@@gv1685 nah
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
This really brings a new twist to that quote.
oh boyyyy
@Octopus Of the nine realms Batman "became a villain" at the end of the movie in order to preserve Harvey Dent/Two-Face's public image. But this video is basically implying that Batman had already become a villain - or at the very least, complicit in Gotham's corruption - without realizing it.
@@DB-sd3cw I'm more of a soyboy tbh, but cuck works too.
Yeah Game/Film Theory's like that
Joker is the reverse card of " you either die a hero. Or live long enough to see yourself become a villain". Joke is " you either die a villain . or live long enough to see yourself become a hero "
Well this just makes so much sense and gives me even more reason to love the joker as a “villain”. These kind of superhero stories have always irritated me in that the “hero” spends their time fighting crime and putting the bad guys in jail when there’s generally a much larger underlying reason for such crime in the first place. They have all of the resources and means to be able to eradicate crime from the bottom up but get fixated on the more surface level petty crimes that they don’t see the big picture. This take on the story where the joker is actually the “hero” perfectly reflects a lot of the pretences and issues in our society.
Also, it totally makes sense to call the joker a consequentialist in his beliefs rather than just a crazy man who’s sole goal is chaos (though there’s no denying that he isn’t entirely sane). We even studied scenes of this film when doing a lesson about utilitarianism is religious studies.
One thing you should mention:
The Joker also never revealed his intentions because he didn’t want people to follow his example.
And also to just f*** with them.
The commentator, i dont think anyone has mentioned the fact that joker even kills his own allies in the first scene of the movie. He kills criminals
There is a second joker in that film ^^ his brother
Joker's cruelest joke...
"I'm gonna make this pencil disappear...."
hes a pencil pusher quite the brain teaser
Tada!
@@wisdommapping9406 Its, ah, its gone.
I remember that part
Im gonna make this minority disappear
You know, it's amazing what you can get done when you don't concern yourself with right and wrong.
-Joker
Then we can do what we want. Without the restrictions of other people and their rules.
nice edgelord quote, it's not like as if he never said that or anything
I think he did, from another source.
OKAYYY, but if I say Thanos was right, I'm the bad guy.
@@KoolMonkE No offence God but you are the bad guy for believing that half the universe should die for a problem that doesn't exist
“How about I cut you up into little pieces and feed you to your pooches. Then we’ll see how loyal a hungry dog really is”
This one quote can perfectly describe the message Joker was trying to convey upon Gotham through the whole movie.
Funny thing is, I've read that dogs will wait longer to eat their dead owners if starving than cats will.
@@WynneL not tf if they're cut up 💀💀💀💀
Dang this was a good look at this movie. I like the Joker more and more as time goes on.
Front page comment
idk why, i hated Batman ever since the first movie came and now i have my reasons
You’re the guy that always comments on SSSniperwolf’s videos!
all my joker videos I watched today you were there.
@@brodybingham6808 cmon man
good thing he wasn't key epic
Joker: *Kills thousands of people”
Mat pat: Carefully he’s a hero
Joker:*kills thousands of people to save millions of people*
if want to have something you have to lose something
and most of the people that were killed were bad people
@SILVI NUR FAJRIAH 2014 shut up bot
He killed dozens at most
He is joker saved a lot of parents for paying child support thanks joker.👍
Aryan Kakar joker was a manipulator. He lied about his past, his motives, not to mention trying to kill dents girlfriend without remorse. He clearly was a psychopath, but whether or not he was trying to save Gotham was debatable
"i'm just ahead of the curve" - Joker
He really wasn't kidding lols
Oh shiiit. 😂😂😂😅
The fact that Batman hates a lot
Aw for fuck sake, you lot will be pro Bateman soon enough
I bet it was a bell curve.
14:20 The BEST Line“We can’t SEE ourselves as the VILLAIN if we think we are the hero”
And i quote:
"A villain is just a hero off the other side..."
No, that'a an anti hero.
Also, your'e supposed to say who your'e quoring it from.
What are you a teacher?
@@thatcooldudeisawesome876 no, Im just smarter. Jk
if that was true, you would have figured out how google works by now, try it! :)
“Very sophisticated plans”
*plays clip of joker in a dress*
I read this just as he said it
Colby Berggren same
*He's s o p h i s t i c a t e d*
@Lady Mercy you have WAY too much time on your hand
Lol
"Most of the evil in this world is done by people with good intentions."
İt seems good intentions isn't enough
@ true, but what is enough are good intentions and the will to uphold and go about those good intentions in the right way
Dr. Grant : With the best intentions? Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions.
Even with good intentions or not, ppl can still cause catastrophes and lead to more
@Ryan Alex just about to elude to that myself
exactly, Joker is not an agent of chaos or even "not afraid of death" he just wants others to think that he is. This is how he is able to get out of the mob meeting because everyone there thinks that Joker is crazy and will not mind killing himself with them. He created a reputation for himself so everyone thinks of him a certain way to distract from his actual plan (First impression is the last impression). People to label things a certain way so as to not spend mental energy thinking about it, and everyone thinks of Joker as the crazy person who is just doing it for the lols (what Alfred and Bruce think of Joker) and because of this categorization he never acts the way people expects him to, he seems chaotic.
“Fine I’ll do it myself”
-Joker
justin kongolo speaking of wich you know how i got these scars? - joker
"but this, does put smile on my face"
-Joker
Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru
- Joker
"Persona!"
-Joker
Seems like somebody’s sharing Thanos’ family tree
Great, now I love Heath Ledger's joker even more.
Was this a complaint or a compliment?
@@jamesmartinez9377 I believe it was sarcastic complaint, more as a joke than as an actual bad thing
@@khajiitkorner918 i was expecting an r/wooosh
@@jamesmartinez9377 nope I'm not like that unless the person in being overly ignorant or a jerk. Which you are not being, have a nice day.
@@khajiitkorner918 thank you
The Joker: you know what I notice? Nobody panics when everything goes to plan! Even if the plan is horrifying
The whole point of that speech was always to let the audience know he does have a plan. He isn’t “an agent of chaos” in the usual sense of the word, he’s unbelievably methodical and meticulous in his scheme, he just needs to play into an extremely common fear of the unknown.
So true it's scary
"Introducing a little anarchy, Upside the established order and everything became chaos. Do you know anything above chaos? IT'S FAIR!"
because chaos means everything fights for themselves including the schemers of the established order.@@mightystellwan1974
This makes the sentence " *sometimes u have to be the villain to be a hero* " to a whole new lvl
To sum this up:
"Just because you are bad guy, does not mean you are Bad Guy."
Oof
@unknowning unknown Just cause it's old doesnt mean it's not accurate to the character.
Zangief literally wasn't a bad guy, though.
"I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's nobody I would rather be, then me...."
Who's BaD ?
In the original “Batman” Joker announces “This town needs an enema”
Dang I didn't know the town was constipated
means cleansing Gotham of its chaos & scourge
Also for us viewers it's cleaning out the shit lol
Psywriter 😔😔😖😖😩😢😫😭😭😭
@@Newt2799 I mean metaphorically it is definitely clogged up with shit.
@Psywriter 1989 Joker said "This town needs an enema", you're probably too young to know about it.
Here's the scene. ua-cam.com/video/a1Tpe-dbPQI/v-deo.html
It's another way of saying "this town needs to flush out the shit out of its system so it feels better".
“You ever die a hero, or live to see yourself turn into a villain.” -Harvey Dent
He warned us at the beginning of the movie of this.
“You’re crazy”
“nO iM nOt”
Batman is responsible for crime? Uh... I don't think he is. Those criminals are responsible.
@@Cajek2 he's not responsible for the crime, only the escalation of it. Even in the comics whenever Batman's villains have a meet up they OFTEN talk about how the only reason they have gone as far with their evil plans is because batman pushed them to that degree of desperation.
An example, at one point Mr. Freeze tried to freeze the world as part of a larger scheme... he stated he only attempted that because he knew batman would stop him (because deep down he knows the implication would be dire for humanity and he is not really a "bad guy morally") and that his "real goal" was just to secure stolen funding/materials along the way to keep his wife alive... which he also accomplished.
In that same comic poison ivy remarks that while she's tried multiple times to wipe out humanity to make room for her plants she'd ideally be willing to settle if humanity would just stop destroying the rain forests/polluting and allowed her to grow plants capable of defending themselves there. Since she knows batman will stop her anyway she feels pressured to step up her threats so that people take her message seriously should she ever HAPPEN to win.
OMO
Im just ahead of the curve
Cajek Batman is not responsible for crime, he is the incentive that drove crime, which is why his retirement was indeed the solution to crime in Gotham. I thought this was so obvious Film Theory would not ever find themselves covering this. I guess I was wrong. Regardless, that was kind of the entire point of not only Dark Knight, but Dark Knight Rises.
If Heath Ledger survived, not only he would've been in "The Dark Knight Rises" but the theory of him being a the real hero of Gotham probably would've been explored.
it probably would’ve been like in Joker 2019, where he has a bunch of followers
He was supposed to be in the Dark Knight Rises in some form. I think he was connected to League of Shadows. Surprised there isn't movie theories about that.
@@alext399true I reckon we would of got a scene of people in joker masks rioting at the end of the movie
@@volbound1700tdk rises was amazing but it still had some issues and sadly most of them were because of the unexpected death of heath ledger. They had work with what they could.
@@volbound1700I heard the plot would stay the same but when Bane frees all the criminals from jail, Joker would become the second main villain.
Joker: *takes rich people hostage*
Batman: *shows up*
Joker: and he waddled away waddle waddle
And he came back the very next day, bam bam bam batty bam
steven morales
Hehehe I completely forgot why I made this joke
@@cathiaaskew1106 it was funny tho
Till the very next day! *bomp* *bomp* *bomp* *bamp bada bamp*
Got
Any
Graaapes?
Nolan did infact give us the most realistic batman ever. It showed us that dressing as a bat and running over rooftops is not the solution.
In alfred’s story he makes Colonisers sound like the good guys while ignoring what they were really doing.
Damn
Alexy AND Friends Not even ignoring it. Being totally matter-of-fact about it.
@Manuel Camelo
Satan would agree with you
I was thinking about it, and through that, it really wouldn't be hard to pull comparisons to what's happening in Gotham to real life gentrification you know, making things look good and doing very superficial fixes but leaving the impoverished behind and comparing gentrification to colonization and idk how well it actually stands within the movie, but an interesting thought none-the-less.
"You can't see yourself as the villain, when you think you're the hero"
Alfred's story?
Film Theory: The Joker is actually Megamind.
noted.
Oh no you dinit
The joker is actually John Wick one of the mob there once saw him kill a guy with a pencil.
@@FromW oh hell no disrespecting the joker like that No you dinit
@@thekrazyhatter5063 All it takes is 3 bad movies.
That literally proves that " *Not every hero wears cape* ".
"I wear a smile, big smile"
Well the incredible summed that up real well. Cape = airplane death
UrbanRose cape = 0 sight
ah yes allmight
Not every cape wears a hero.
What if a kitchen apron is just a cape worn backwards - and the heroic feat is feeding people that are hungry?
It makes so much sense what joker was trying to do. He was actually doing everyone a favor. He got rid of the mob and their money, got rid of the corrupted hierarchy, and broke Batman’s ideology. Batman was the cancer joker was trying to exterminate as prove that everyone can change no matter what you believe in or who you are. In the end they were all helping each other without knowing it.
I like the fact that dogs are the opening example of escalation by the bad guys and later on the joker describes himself as a dog
oooo good catch
I too like dogs
:)
Yeah - that Dude at the beginning is like “My dogs are hungry!” Part of Joker’s world view is that people have a dog eat dog mentality.
Joker set out to prove that people will destroy others to protect their own best interests and there is no social responsibility to community. Batman’s / Bruce’s contention is that there are still good people in Gotham - like the vast MINORITY 😕 of the Gothamites on the boat that voted against blowing up the criminals. And there are some good police as Gordon remains unfailingly selfless throughout the Trilogy.
There’s also the scene where Joker threatens to cut that same mobster up into little pieces and feed him to his hungry pooches which again signifies the point that the dogs will not be loyal to their master when push comes to shove.
It’s a pretty descriptive graphic 😳. One wonders if he did exactly that. Either way, Joker has those dogs working for him at the end in the skyscraper when he sics them on Batman. Even the police have their dogs that chase Batman after he tells Gordon to “call it in”.
At that point I’m reminded of exactly what you said about Joker comparing himself to a dog chasing cars - so it’s almost like the Joker is personified by those police dogs which have switched loyalties like their masters as they chased Batman to his Batpod - and into that eight year long retirement. Joker won.
Yeah Nolan has a whole “dog eat dog / there’s no such thing as real, lasting loyalty” motif going on in this movie. It’s brilliant because humanity already accepts that a dog can be and most often is the MOST unquestionably loyal form of life on the planet - but you have the Joker subverting that idea and putting humanity on trial by saying we’re no better than a pack of hungry dogs.
So why should Batman be putting himself out for Gotham? That’s what Joker is basically saying to him in the interrogation room at MCU.
Theorists 2 seconds after this post: Dogs are people are the same?
Also how he puts his head out of the car window like a dog.
The best thing I like about the Joker is that he doesn't have supernatural powers and yet he is a supervillain.
That's actually the key to why he is the best villain and why batman is the best hero.
Neither has powers. Instead of making them more powerful, they made them more interesting. Moriarty is also somewhat timeless for the same reason and it was vital for Doyle to make Moriarty to provide a good villain for Holmes.
We don't actually like good superheroes. We like relatable superheroes that overcome through provoking and genuinely unsettling villains.
Same with Bruce Wayne
As Megamind said to Tighten:
Oh you're a villain alright, just not a *super* one!
O yeah what's the difference!?
(epic entrance)
*PRESENTATION!*
@@Aiden-MGR wow...
@@eschelar although I'll agree that the joker is one of the best villains, I don't agree that batman is the best super hero. Maybe for Gotham level villains but once you get to justice league level baddies, the only reason batman is so successful is plot armor by the writers.
Heath Ledger's Joker is everyone's favourite joker. The way he outsmarts batman and the rest of gotham is just one of the 100's of reasons I love this joker.
Heath ledger's joker alongside Mark Hamill's joker will always be them definitive in quintessential Jokers to me they're just that fucking good of a villain to prove a point all it takes is one bad day🃏
Mark is literally the joker.
Hamill is my favorite Joker, no contest. Live action, though? I'd choose Ledger.
The money burning scene, the thing that made me realize how crazy Joker was was when he said "gas is cheap" at a time when gas was at it's most expensive ever and everyone was talking about how expensive gas was.
The Joker: people are happy when everything goes to plan. No matter how horrifying the plan is
He's not wrong
@@MySerpentine The Joker: if I was to kill a gang banger or blow up a truck full of soldiers nobody says anything but one ole mayor gets killed. Everybody loses there minds. Me: that's a clever for the scenes where you have one boat full of prisoners and the other boat full of innocent people. If the innocent people blows up to boat full of prisoners nobody will say anything but if the prisoners blows up the boat full of innocents then everyone loses there minds. There is method in the Joker's madness
Lee Johnstone That is exactly what it is. The Joker is a genius, even if he is extremely sickening.
@@angelmendez-rivera351 his plan to clean up Gotham was sickening but it worked. The Joker also show Batman in order to make Gotham crime free you must kill otherwise what's the point. You can't clean up the city without breaking a few eggs
Lee Johnstone Exactly. I think the thesis of the movie is that sometimes, there is no good, ethical choice to be made to fix the problems, and not fixing them is not any more ethical either.
Everyone in Gotham: Gotham cannot be saved.
Joker: Fine i'll do it myself
He actually said: "hold my beer"
Dead meme my friend
@@connieshoes9564 "Dead meme because I said so"
You could also say, "You can't rely on anyone these days, you gotta do everything yourself."
@@mikkitoro8933 Joker always say this in cartoons
A hero is what the city wants
Batman is what the city desserves
And *Joker* is what is city needs
@@catherinehardin6286 lol
Paris Terrell lmfao
@@catherinehardin6286 you too my good sir/ma'am...
@@catherinehardin6286 needs needs needs needs need-
@@catherinehardin6286 is what you "needs-"
This just makes me like heath ledgers Joker even more. Truly this trilogy was something else.
right?even the batman cant match up to the dark knight trilogy
So jokers story is like a twisted version of handsome jacks
I just said the same thing 😂🤘
Don't you mean Joe?
Holsp Joseph Mother
@@Holsp Yeah, he probably meant Joe. By the way, did you hear Joe has ligma?
Whats that story about?
This really touches on the question of heros in general. All villains usually just keep coming back stronger. Villains get more and more dangerous just to take down the hero and civilians usually end up getting caught in the crossfire. Which makes you wonder, if there were no heros would the criminals feel the need to make drastic moves/upgrades. Because the heros are the ones who corner the villains into desperation which makes them more dangerous. For me this really brings the idea of balance into question.
Lol watch Incredibles II for your answer
Well, most of the villans would still exists with or without the heroes. Without the heroes there probably won't be as much destructive fights, but the villans would also be able to deal much more damage before the government decides to nuke them, killing more civillans in the process.
lonemeraki balance can only be achieved when the oppressors are killed off because once you’ve become an oppressor then you’ve over stepped and have broken the balance
lonemeraki And it’s a solid question, I’ve thought about it a lot... but! At the end of the day you will always have the villain who rejoices in the fact there isn’t need to hero’s. And kills a shitload of people.
Now what if, W H A T IF, the heroes just killed off the murderers, rapists, and what not?
At first I was like “eh kinda stretching on this one but I really like it”
Then you busted out the Alfred connection and my mind was blown
yeah the part about burning the forest makes total sense
I don't get it .-.
There is a point to make on the "throwing them away" part though. They were using the gems to bribe the local leaders, which means the gems had to have a certain value within their society. If you were just throwing them away as stones, handing it to childrens as trinkets, etc, you could very well end depreciating their relative value to the point were they would mean nothing to the leaders Alfred was trying to bribe.
There is a certain anime called "C: The power of soul and possibility control" that uses a somewhat similar plot at a certain point. Some characters gather a shitton of local currency and start dropping it in the middle of cities from choppers, unloading it on stores, etc. This causes markets and the local population to panic, to the point their local currency devaluates to 0 as everyone tries to exchange their currency into foreign ones fearing some kind of foul play (which was indeed being caused by some random magic stuff happening in the background too, but both go hand-in-hand).
@Andrew Cox I was buying in to the theory, until you pointed out the other plot points. You're totally correct and this Film Theory is bunk.
Gotham's (and batman's) justice was slow and seemed ineffective, but it never committed the moral wrong of hurting the innocent to get things done. That moral wrong remained on the mob.
And the Joker just went crazy with the cheeze whiz in that regard. He didn't care who he hurt.
The scene where joker murders the fake batman vigilante (in hockey pads) on video, which he then sends to the news, and THEN drops the guys corpse on a rope outside the window of the Mayor's office, that illustrates the utterly amoral behavior of the joker.
@Andrew Cox Joker wanted the mob as well as Batman gotten rid of. As stated the existence of Batman made the mobs stronger to fight for the police. Therefore he had to rob the bank and begin his whole elaborate plan to cure Gotham once and for all of both of them. It would be easy for Batman to stop the mobs but who's to say criminals wouldn't come back stronger because Batman still exists.
In my mind I assume joker died shortly after we last see him by cutting the string Batman had him hanging with and fell to his death because we don't see him in TDKR. He probably figured he had accomplished everything he tried too.
"Hey MatPat, could you sponsor us?"
"Sure Honey, I'll mention how you can buy explosive materials for cheap!"
Ima just buy some gunpowder and dynamite for that orphanage. Thanks Honey!
@MARK PEARSON why so serious
@MARK PEARSON just from reading your comments I can tell what type of person you are, and the Joaquin Phoenix joker is at the same level as heath ledger's joker in my opinion, but it's still hard to compare them when they are in 2 very different styled movies.
@MARK PEARSON Omg I'm so tired of hearing the words "I didnt like it because it was sad", thats literally the point, thats was what the director was going for. What did you think you were going to watch? And wdym he sounds gay? That's his voice in the movie, just because someone has a higher pitched voice doesn't suddenly make them gay, and the way that he acts and dances is just how he is, I mean he is crazy after all, why would you expect him to act like a normal person would.
That's a great way to get placed on the FBI watch list
He actually had the right Idea for Gotham, the only way to fix that corrupt city was to cause chaos for all of the powerful people in charge, mafia, corrupt cops, and vigilantes
Wily Wyvern // Metal Dragon Productions Tjey always got out though, because they always had money and therefore power.
@Wily Wyvern // Metal Dragon Productions We're talking about the Dark Knight Gotham where the justice system is also corrupt though. You can't always buy your way out, but that's only the case when someone who can let you out can't be bought.
Yup
Me: *has watched this movie over a thousand times*
Film theory: “the joker is the real hero”
Me: “I need to watch this movie a thousand times more”
All you need to do is think. And think for yourself.
@@darklord884 true but even if you Think sometimes you just don't Think about somting like this. I for Instanz did Think more about the Philosophie like what the movie wants to tell like one of the many Interpretations is cause and effect and powersrugels like a thug Kills the Patents if bruce wayne so he wants to help gotham. He becomes batman so the Balance of Power is out of Balance so somebody like the joker emerges. So you coud say the joker exists bcause of batman. Two Face/Harvey Dent Kills a lot of pepole batman takes the blame. Dent gets idolized as a hero. So the the dent act gets created.(do to a so called Nobel lie a lie with good Intend but still a lie) With the dark Knight rises and batman begins in mind you coud say because ra's al guhl tried to "burn gotham to the ground" batman stoped him thalia al guhl tries to destroy gotham to Finish what her father started. The entier Nobel lie about dent being innocent gets toren Down and well in the end of the movie gotham gets saved batman celebrated as a hero and because bruce wayne left sutch an Impression on john blake he takes up the Mantel of batman probably becoming Robin the cycle beginnes a new. Powestrugell imbalence of Power and so on
@@christophbeck1305 Please do go on. I am very curious about this so called thug who murdered Bruce Wayne's PATENTS. I wasn't aware he had any, but okay.
If a person is willing to sacrifice you, he’s the villain. If he’s willing to sacrifice himself, he’s the hero.
What if they're willing to sacrifice both?
@@Gacha_gays then he’s Jim Jones
When governments are so evil villains become heroes.
Most underrated comment
The heroes are the villans in the eyes of the government
@Abhinav Menon no
He is sparta
No he is patrick
This makes me want to rewatch dark knight again its compatible to the comic when joker expose batman and not even joker in general was created to get payback on criminals honestly if u actually read up or pay attention to the killing joke 🤔...... something similar to the punisher but disguise as a clown and batman was the reason he fell into the acid it makes alot of sense to expose batman mojarity of criminals are being brutally beaten and most of their accidents are created by the batman he's the reason their the way they are mainly he cripples them it's no different than damaging or committing a crime🤔......
Now that scene where Batman catches the Joker and the Joker is upside down but the camera pans around to put him right side up makes a lot more sense. As if to say that Batman was really the one who was upside down
"The men who think they're doing all the protecting are the ones who burn down the forest, then they blame the man who just wants to save his home."
Yep. This is the exact sentiment said in the story that inspired the Joker's creation in the first place: "The Man Who Laughs" by Victor Hugo.
I don't appreciate french writers to be completely honest but let's be honest it's not the first time that the reactions of men are unpredictable we see it every day "by taking medicine we are making the disease much stronger" and so on so maybe what we believe is helping other isn't actually helping them but making them worse sometimes to act with humans you need to look three steps forward to see whether they will help themselves first .
@@ahmedmejri5465 True, but that's not the shortcoming pointed out in Alfred's story or Hugo's novel. Alfred and his friends were working for the British Empire to further its imperialistic goals, not in the best interest of the Burmese locals. Likewise in "The Man Who Laughs", its title character, Gwynplaine, is a boy who is disfigured as a punishment to his rebellious nobleman father. In both cases, Alfred and his friends and the political enemies of Gwynplaine's father felt they were upholding the status quo and yet all they were doing was maintaining the power of those who didn't have the best interests of people they were meant to serve at heart. In short, they were maintaining an unequal society and political corruption under the guise of upholding the correct order of things.
He's not a monster. He's just ahead of the curve.
Plot twist: The Joker was wearing hockey pads the whole time.
*what gives you the right?!*
i dont get what that should mean
Vastly underrated comment @ErikfromEarth xD
flo then obviously you haven’t seen the movie
I’M NOT WEARING HOKEY PADS
I’m only now realizing how accurate the hishe Batman’s voice is😂
Shoopy Doopy that channel is amazing.
@@jaimeebrooks7167 100% agreed.
“Every villain is the hero of his own story”
I mean i can think of at least 10 villains that are far from heroes of their story
Handsome Jack's words echoing every where
If you think about it jack was the same too he wanted to cleanse pandora
Trust me my friend, when you said that you will got
-70% ppl said "oh the hero who burn city"
-30% joking on you
@@panickbutton7010 list them here
YOU'RE THE BANDIT, AND I'M THE GODDAMN HERO!
He isn't a monster, He's just ahead of the curve....
"I'm like a dog chasing cars i wouldn't know what to do with one if i caught one"
No you are a dog who places nails on the road to get the truck to crash into an electrical pole to lure the mailman out of his truck just so that you get an opportunity to chase him
I feel like that summed it up perfectly. He might love to chase, but he is an amazingly effective planner first and foremost.
Lmao
Underrated comment
Hahaha genius dog
but what would he do if he actually caught the mailman? he wouldn't know what to do with him
Alfred's story kinda sounds like a discount robin hood
I think the story was more to do with Burmese poverty rather than colonialism.
He doesn't hand them out to kids tho. He dumps them in the river. Alfred saw some kid holding one of the stones, that the kid found in the river.
HISS even better remove the stones entirely from the economy
Funny thing. I'm Burmese. Hah.
“You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villain.”
Suddenly that quote makes more sense now.
Except...no? Because the Joker was never heroic in any way? Maybe?
@@darklord884 talking about Batman.
If Batman had died earlier on, he would have just been some guy who tried his hardest to make the world better & died fighting crime. Instead, by living long enough he was able to reflect on his actions & realise that he was causing harm followed by choosing to make Batman responsible for the crimes he had committed.
@@KitNeedsCoffee That doesn't make any sense.
@@nairobi8056 Yeah, but Batman specifically states that he isn't a hero.
Slight problem, he explicitly says he only burned his half of the money. He didn't bankrupt the mafia, not even close. Also batman doesn't retire at the end of this film he retires at some other point within the eight years in between films, he's still clearly active at the end of the film.
Can you back up this idea of Batman continuing his activity after TDK?
He burned all of the money. That's the joke. The fire will just spread over the whole thing
He burned Lau with money. Which means all money is gone. Remember in the Pencil scene, when Lau said only he knows where all the money is, to avoid getting tracked by cops.
MatPat: “Joker is the hero of Gotham”
FBI: 👀
69 : so did you hear about joker
@AMIR HAKIM MUDA HASIBUAN 2014 i speak london
Zelno that's absolutely beautiful xD
“Wait, that’s illegal”
@AMIR HAKIM MUDA HASIBUAN 2014 FBI OPEN UP!
Ra’s al Ghul: Gotham is incurable.
Joker: Hold my beer.
The one who turned the like count to 101!
* hold my smile
More like hold my gasoline.
More like hold my pencil, the Joker doesn't drink
@@ThreesiXtydegreeS he drank at the rich ppl event.
“Some men just want to watch the world burn” isn’t a literal statement. The thief in Burma stole because he wanted to expose the greed and materialism of the people he stole from. He wanted to mock them and the lengths they would go to in order to catch him. The very act of burning the forest was yet another way in which he exposed their greed. His intention wasn’t to make them burn the forest, it was to expose their greed.
And that is exactly what Joker did to the city as he said no one will panick if thehorrible events that are happening are by the plan
I do believe that "the dark knight" refers to the joker himself, an evil man who besides being evil is still doing everything he can to defend his kingdom
I think another important point is that the act of burning the forest down was itself cruel.I mean they went to another nation,tried to bribe their leaders,and when a bandit tried to resist,they burnt an entire forest down to catch him?? Think of all the people and animals and resources that would have been lost in that fire
@Louis Kirkwood That's pretty good, where did you hear that from?
@@calvin9388
we all seem to forget that alfred is, in fact, bri'ish
The Joker in this is like a Nihilist with too much fire power. If you notice he has a pretty stable moral code that he sticks to, basically he thinks everyone is capable of the same evils and everyone is only one situation from doing unspeakable things i.e. the boat scene where they'd try to blow one up.
When he said
“Game theory I love that show!”
I got an alert for a new game theory episode
Yeah me to the kindergarten secret
Oddly convenient 😑
Probably timed it perfectly with the upload
I read this comment when he said that lol
Mat pat: He executes his plans with precision, he makes plans
The Joker: Do I really look like a guy with a plan?
: Thanks so much for the likes
Insanity 1496
Yes. Yes, he does.
Well no, but actually yes
That's part of the joke I think. He's tricking people into thinking there's no plan.
I like to think of it as managed chaos.
There is always a hero people want.
There is always a hero people need.
But beware the hero people deserve.
you get what you fucking deserve
@@queijomanplay What do you get when you cross a mentally ill loner with a society that treats him like trash?
@@iseeyou6985 The hero we all deserve! :D
I really like this theory. It makes Joker seem like a more insane and sadistic version of V from V for Vendetta.
Christian Bale as Batman talks like he’s constantly out of breath
I think it was after a fight that batman was out of breath
Ryan No it’s almost always
He said it in blueray cut that he had headaches in the suit and couldn't even pee and had to be nannied by th crew..
his voice is the worst thing about these movies. is so distractingly bad
You think it's easy putting on that suit? That thing doesn't forgive an INCH.
okay I started this comment totally as a joke, but I just realized after I finished the above sentence. Batman only really seems to do any free, open movement when he's actually doing all his karate moves. The large majority of moving from one given spot to another in any non-super closed in crime environment, he has some gadget to propel or pull him. He uses his vehicles like crazy. He lifts weights and bangs out push ups, but apparently dude never does ANY cardio.
He's legitimately constantly out of breath.
for the past decade or so the Joker as a character has been literally "I'm not the bad guy"
Oh, nice to see ya here
Only these two movies and an elseword comic. Otherwise you should see the moment he set loose.
Billie Eilish however...
To be fair, it might have to do with the fact as a people we're pretty against strict controlling bodies. Though there is definitely a case to be made that in many scenarios joker becomes a heroic villain. Given his entire goal is usually boiled down to 'take down the bodies of powers around with a psychopath's paint brush'. Though I will say this, I hope at some point we get a version of his and harley's relationship that's far more Bonny and Clide than abuser and abusey. I realize it's a weird take, but the that the two of them just bring out the literal worst in each other is a neat way to write their relationship. Still plenty of reason for them to split up, but it's a more interesting take than 'girl meets boy, boy meets toy'.
@@danielbailey845 why do everyone compare anythng with evil and horror with billie eilish like seriously this is just dumb
"Do I look like a guy with a plan?"
As he's holding the hammer of the revolver in case Dent decides it's murder time.
It was revealed behind the scenes that that was an unintentional accident that happened on the spot, and they didn’t catch it before release.
@@collinsnow2203 there are no accidents - oogway
@@collinsnow2203 even if that was a accident the scene right next to where he reads his speech about the ferries is not
The point is he made up him being an agent of chaos to get Dent on his side
also joker *has a contegency plan for everything in the movie*
RIP Heath Ledger. Absolute legend bro. With him at the helm Joker could do no wrong. He definitely holds a special place in all of our hearts. This theory is nice cause it adds a level of dignity to his already awesome legacy. Besides Joker he had such a diverse and dynamic acting career, I don’t mean to digress but I loved him as Casanova. But personally he was the Joker I was exposed to, grew up with and I’m grateful. That talented man gave this character his all and it shows, absolutely amazing performance and wonderful theory. Also I’m glad you hired the man who made that popular theory. I love seeing my boys cop the bag, hope y’all are doing well. Anyways, sorry for the rant if you read this far have a blessed day you wonderful child of light. I love you.
I know this comment is old but I’m currently recovering from issues my anemia and medical troubles and this has literally made my day.
The correct term for joker is not “villain,” he is the “anti-hero”
Anti-Villain
@@osiris8680 anti-vigilante
Gmz_ g14 Bravo
just like omar in the wire. they even have some of the same ideals about it not being about the money, but to send a message.
I don't think you know what anti-hero is lol
“You need an ace in the hole”
In the new Joker movie, where he rises at the end, you can read in the background a sign that says “Ace in hole” 😯
Yup ;)
I noticed that too lol
They really stayed true to joker and that’s why i love the movie
What the hell? You just gave me a spoiler. I haven't watched the Joker movie yet. :/
@@priyanshusinha646 you can't complain after 1 week, those are the rules.
Thats why he clapped for gorden becoming police commissioner that was part of his plan all along that's what he wanted to happen ... the joker wanted to get caught so gorden can get promoted and that's why he killed the corrupt ex pollice captain to clear corruption in gothams police force ....
In the video matpat mentioned that joker knows the actions and reactions ... getting caught was the action....and the explotion with the phone in that mans chest was the RE-action so he could break free from the jail...
And another thing,, he was the one to take down the mob not batman
It wasnt even part of the script. Heath Ledger improvised it and did it even tho it wasnt part of the script. P.s. he was mocking him.
Jeduken it was more like “nice job you are a good cop leading a flock of wolves in sheep’s clothes.”
Batman and Gordon already worked together to stop the mafia. The mafia was already highly pressured from Batman when the Joker appeared.
The clapping was so brillian scene with several meanings in it
Considering how intellectual Nolan's dark knight trilogy is, this actually makes perfect sense. The joker is - just like in a card game - the perfect hero card you can play in order to win. Very well researched.
"Not even billionaires like Bruce Wayne want to waste their money" gives off the same energy as "Even Batman listens to his mom"
@H M That's the joke
This video is the exact reason why we love Heath Ledger’s Joker. Joker isn’t a maniac who does random shit, he is very smart in planning and psychology in such a way that his actioncs look insane and crazy
Yeah exactly. It works so well because he uses perceived insanity as a smokescreen.
There has never and will never be a better written/acted Joker.
Yeah, like burning a giant pile of money...makes perfect sense.
Best joker in terms of performance AND character for me...
@@kev3d It makes perfect sense. He's not driven by greed therefore money is of little value to him.
@@kev3d there already is a better acted Joker
This is what I’ve long said: the Joker is actually sane. He would have to be to orchestrate his epic plans.
Jordan Owen hence why he is so defensive when called out by the mafia for being crazy
What about sociopaths? They aren't in their right mind but they are still intelligent in a lot of cases.
You mightbe surprised to know he does have a super power, jokers super power is, super sanity. He is who he will always be, no drug can alter jokers perspective.
Joker is a more of a alternative values to the current system, if he were born in another century he might very well be kings and lords.. Jokers creating is from his understanding of the society fabric, he relationship with batman is like "good cop bad cop" theme.. if he was in GoT.. then he would be like little finger..
@@rabbitbobo4131 you dont know much about joker, this is some wild shot in the dark. Yes there is a good cop bad cop, but jokers point isnt for the 14 and deep people, its actually much more of a mature theme. Cops and robbers is the game but, joker constantly hints at the reasons why batman really does it, its not because batman is a hero.
Mat could have stated that this interpretation of Joker is more in line with the philosophy of Anarchy, which is akin to chaos because it seeks to abolish/undermine/disrupt hierarchies in favor of returning power/control to communities. (Ideally in an egalitarian manner...and not harming said communities)
You mean Lonnie Machin aka Anarky is exactly how MatPat is describing Heath Ledger's Joker?
"I just did what I do best. I took your little plan and I turned it on itself".
"Upset the exstablished order and everything will be chaos"
Hot take:
Heath Ledger's Joker never wanted to kill Batman. He would never have gone along with Bane's plan, and might very well have teamed up with Batman and Catwoman to stop the destruction of Gotham.
Would not be the first time joker allied with Batman tbh
well shit now i want to see this
Well also they had him written as the judge instead of the scarecrow but then Heath... yknow.
Batman goes to a world where Bruce Wayne died. Martha Wayne becomes joker. Batman (Bruce's dad) is evil.
Well Joker said it in the film literally that he doesn't want to kill batman. Some thing like "what would I do without you? You complete me." Traditionally Joker keeps batman alive since he is the ultimate resistance and absolute point of opposition to Joker's existence. Without someone who can replace Batman, Joker would simply seize to exist.
Film theory: Wayne family became so rich because they saved so much money after installing Honey
No they got rich by making youtube videos. Until demonetization came along and youtube came up to them in person to shoot them. Bruce, however, got Honey.
These and many other points are what Gordon talks about several times with the Batman. Best investigator ever