Belaying a Lead Climber on Multi Pitch Routes and Protecting the Belay Safety Bubble.
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- Опубліковано 15 лип 2024
- Most of our videos focus on belaying the second but here's some chat about being a leader....
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From my experience using an "Italian" as you call it, with double ropes works perfectly fine if you put them together as if they were a single strain! That's how I always use it on bolted belays.
👍 Im going to do some multi pitch climbing hopefully this year and this is one thing I been wondering about.
Love your dog feeling the need to get involved at 7:50!
Massive thx for all of your videos Jez, I’m learning loads. Enjoy Spain.
Absolute pleasure! I think he was getting bored!!
Thanks for putting in the time and effort for these video's. They're fun very informative!
I recently did Blue Line in El Chorro as a first multi pitch with my girlfriend and it was an amazing experience! Your videos were a great help for us thank you!
While climbing we got passed by a couple of climbers that were, as I later found out, simul climbing. I had never heard of it but it did get me interested. That would be something I'd like to hear your view about, pro's and con's, safety tips maybe. Like always it seems there is the tradeoff between time and safety.
And, I would also love to see the sling setups, they're alway fun.
Absolute pleasure!
I'll give a video on simul climbing some thought... Your summarisation is fairly accurate though and it needs a shed load of experience to make it work well and (relatively) safely.
I appreciate these videos so much
Cheers!
Excellent and as clear as always 👍
Thanks very much!
Excellent !
Many thanks!
thank you. you are the first youtuber actually explaining the steps in detail on how to belay and lead multipitch. Excellent. I subscribed.
Glad you liked it and thanks for the sub!
Cliping into single anchor point is the best way to destroy your anchor (your safety buble, as you call it yourself). You negate some fall factor, true, but quick draws are basically under double load in the event of lead fall due to 2:1 pulley effect. And all this load goes onto single trad piece - it has all chances to fail, destroying sizeable part of your anchor and possibly shockloading few remaining pieces.. If you can't put a separate piece to clip while still at anchor, one of good options is to clip through your anchor's "focal point", it will reduce some fall factor, prevent the odd load of belayer's harness and (most importantly) will spread the load of high factor fall over all pieces of anchor.
Yup, in real life that equates to 1.7 the force, which is why it’s not my preferred option.
Clipping the the master point is definitely an option, but an impractical one most of the time I find.
The master point is often a bit low for this purpose. I would certainly only clip into part of the anchor while leading off if the rest of the anchor was unquestionably strong. Another concern in this scenario is if you will hit your belayer if you fall, potentially causing them to lose control of the belay. A gri-gri might be a good option if this is a possibility.
Another of those super educational videos you wish you’d seen a couple years ago ;)
Glad you liked it!
Nice video! I almost always clip the first quickdraw into anchor (or nearby). I don't want to try factor 2 fall.
Cheers!
Id love to see a good skills and drills vid for sport climbing multi pitch. Iv seen many vids on what to do when you as the leader gets to the top, but i cant seem to find vids on best practices on belaying the lead on multi. ie belaying off the harness or directly from the bolted anchors. It would make a great great vid, also thanks for the content i really enjoy.
That one's on the list for the not too distant future :)
nice! thanks
Welcome!
Awesome
cheers!
Been loving your videos! The combination of instructional and more anecdotal/personal experience is great.
A question regarding clipping the anchor: would it not be better to do that before you even belay them up, as a sort of redirect? I know I've developed a strong habit of where to lock off with a tube style device, and pulling up feels far less intuitive. Hope that makes some sense. Cheers
Glad you like them!
It's definitely an option, is does create a pulley effect though which puts more force onto the anchors, so it's probably one I'd save for bolted belays.
@@JBMountainSkills Is there really a pulley effect in such a case? Assuming two 70-kg climbers and a hanging belay, and no slack when falling, you would get 1) 70 kgs on either side of the redirect, meaning the anchor must hold 140 kgs, or 2) climber and belayer (70+70 kgs) in a “chain” from the anchor (without redirect), still requiring the anchor to hold 140 kgs. Or? Love your videos!
Great video, can anyone link other videos similar to this one? For sport climbing particularly? Thanks!
What do you think about a slipknot backup knot until they get their first piece in, in general of course, I know every scenario is different.
You're the best Jez, I think I've watched every climbing instructional on UA-cam and you are who I check everyone else's instructions against.
Great! Thank you for the video! Well explained! Italian hitch is brilliant, except for the rope twist going on, that would be the only down side of it! We all want an extra video on sling set up, of course! Next thing I‘d try is to belay my leader from the bolted anchor on the master point with my atc, as I would have done it on my belay loop but from the master point, making it easier to escape the system, if needed, does that make any sense? Anyway, great work! Glad you are enjoying the snow, we have loads here in bavaria! Cheers!
A big thing to be careful of, when belaying from the master point using an ATC, is that if the leader falls onto the anchor (say that first independent piece pulls) then the ATC - being above you - is next to impossible to get into correct braking orientation. Said another way you can't get the braking strand to make an 'S' shape over the device when the device is up off your harness and above you on the master point. The ATC ends up being upside down with you holding the braking strand below it, with the rope making 'U' through the device - no friction! The Italian hitch will still brake in that orientation, although perhaps with a bit less friction than the parallel rope strands orientation.
I'd also suggest that you might have a similar (though perhaps not as severe) problem with the ATC orientation even on your harness, if the leader falls and pulls that first piece and ends up falling on you (indirect to the anchor, but essentially also a factor 2 fall). The ATC brake strand is held down to one side, but the device will be pulled to face down on whichever side of you the leader ends up at. Not ideal at all for brake strand orientation in the device! Probably a really good idea to use a belay glove ion this case, to give you that extra bit of help. .. Or just use an Italian hitch
@@Alyogyne1 thank you! Good point! I forgot to mention that not only the anchor is bolted but the whole route is bolted, not trad gear involved in this case. When putting mobile gear, then your point makes total sense and I agree totally! I guess, I‘ll have to accept the rope twist and generally use an italian hitch. Cheers!
I'll try and put another video together soon that'll cover these points!
@@JBMountainSkills thanks! We make you work hard! 😅
JB do you do any videos on lead climbing please? Enjoyed the video. Thank you
Awesome vid. I’m definitely interested on sling set ups for belaying directly off the anchor when leading. I’ve seen the bowline on a bite used where your belaying more or less off one bolt and the other bolt is a back up.
I like the idea of an Italian hitch being used when belaying off the anchor until they’ve reached the next bit of gear then having an atc directly off the anchor so the whole rope isn’t twisted. This method requires enough rope already out from the Italian to the atc so you don’t have to feed out from both devices.
An alternative is using an atc directly off the anchor and having the brake strand through a locking biner. Ryan Tilley has a video on this method on his UA-cam channel and he explains it well.
I think this method of belaying is great for sport multis especially when projecting hard multis and belayers are getting thrown into the wall. I think it isn’t popular at the moment because it’s so different to how we currently belay. In France and Germany this method is popular but like with most climbing systems and technologies the rest of the world takes a little while to catch on.
Thanks for the effort you put into your videos
nice one
Absolute pleasure and thanks for the reply!
I'm looking at doing an other video soon around this subject to do it justice, I'll take a look at the video you mention too :)
ua-cam.com/video/Pcl6XQxIr1U/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/eqZQnCGl24A/v-deo.html
@@nathankenny7454 thank you!
Brilliant - hoping to start some multipitch this year and this was really helpful thank you! :) Would be good to understand approach if you're planning on keeping the same leader for all pitches - anything to consider?
I think I'll do a video on that soon :)
@@JBMountainSkills That would be very kind Sir... can't wait! 😊
How do you catch a leader fall softly when on the anchor?
Not sure if I'm missing something, but the ATC does not seem to be set up the right way, without the first piece, the fall would be factor 2, but it would be a full rope length fall, wouldn't it?
Great video man! What crag did you film this at?
Thanks! Tio Jose :)
With the HMS with italian hitch in shelf, if the leader takes a fall once he already placed and clipped something above the belay, wouldn't it just pull the HMS up towards the nuts as it it in fact only held in place for downwards pull and there is nothing preventing it from sliding up? In this case it would be better to clip the HMS into the masterpoint.
There's definitely much better ways of doing it, I'll be doing a video on the subject soon :)
I see close to exclusively multipitch leader belaying from the Body (as in Sportclimbing, you referred to it as indirct belaying, in german body-belaying because the belay point (?) is at your harness/body) on mostly bolted anchors (as far as I aware many anchors in continental europe are bolted...). I definitly see why and when you should do it but if your leader/mate takes a whipper and I am, as you in the video, not more the half a meter from the master point I think I would crash into the wall as a belayer especially if I am a bit lighter then the leader. for me that is an out of controll situation, I can hit my head badly, Instict can kick in to protect my body from the collision and potentially lose the brake rope...so I see high risks for a not well chosen indirect belay, and I feel many choose indirect belay as standard without adapting to the situation as much as would be necessary. What is your take on safely belaying falls in indirect belay?
Hey! Thanks for the video 😊.
I am curious: Is there any reason why you are clipping the belay device to your rope and not to your belay loop? I came to this video because I have recently acquired the petzl duo connect and I was wondering whether it would be very inconvenient in the case of having to belay a leader on a belay station. In that case I would have both the ATC guide plus the petzl both in my belay loop, but I am seeing that you don't use the belay loop at all. 🤔
I was just wondering the same thing...Is this the way to do it, and if yes why ?
Very nice video, thanks! I had a talk with a italian Alpine Guide exactly about italian hitch vs direct belaying in a multipitch. He pointed out to me a specific situation where italian hitch would make sense. Many classic routes in the alps still have old pins at the belay stations. Pins you may feel unsure to trust or not. In addition the next pitch starts without possibilities for protection and challenging moves which may result in a fall. As you mentioned, you have to place a "dummy" sling to avoid factor 2 falls. Let's say the leader falls after 4 meters from the belay without any other protections leading to an 8 meters falls. Belaying with an ATC you will be under a very strong force to actually stop the falls (with risk to slip the leader) also due to the fact you will be pulled against the wall due to the rope passing thorugh the dummy sling. The italian hitch can help here: the italian hitch has the highest braking factor among belaying techniques and it will help catching softer the fall although directly on the belay station. Since it breaks (not blocks) the rope you will not stress too much the "old and rusty" pins. Since he did not place any protection in that spicy first 4 meters, the belay station won't be lifted (so no downside from the italian hitch use on that regard). You should have your ATC ready in the belay loop and get ready to shift from italian hitch to ATC as soon as the leader place the protection and he's stable. So, you can start with the italian hitch and once he passed the hard first meters, place a solid protection and be stable, then shift to ATC (of course keeping always a hand on the breaking side of the rope).
Thanks for sharing :)
I would want to stress that the factor 2 Fall is not the Problem here. Rather if the leader doesn't clip the dummy runner or anything else and falls, the pull direction on the ATC is going to be down, therefore no braking power in the ATC because the rope runs through it like through a pulley. I doubt strongly that you are going to hold on as a belayer (it is as if you were trying to belay with your bare hands and no belay device/help). So the factor 2 fall will not even matter because the leader will tumble down the cliff the whole length of your rope (so probably 50 something meters)
Great video as always! One method I've seen is to add another bit of gear to your anchor that can take an upward pull (nut/cam facing up, tree root, etc) and equalise with another sling or the rope from the backside of your clove hitch - could that be suitable to prevent the anchor being pulled upwards when belaying direct with an Italian hitch?
Cheers!
Quite possibly... I'll be doing a video on it soon I reckon so I'll try and talk about that then :)
Don’t you need to switch the belay plate round?
Cesar Millan: "If all dogs behaved like that, nobody would know my name." 🙂
hey... so I watched this, checked comments and saw no-one address the fact that you belay your climber, after he reaches the anchor from below by clipping the rope at your tie-in point at 7:00 and not the belay loop.... was this an accident?
No, that's on purpose. I've done a video about it if you have a quick search :)
@@JBMountainSkills I did... now I get it ! thanks! cheers from Argentina! (COME TO PATAGONIA!)
@@federicoezequielmackin I’d love to one day!
Sport multi pitch belay video would be super useful
Coming soon!
Really nice 👌 😍💋 💝💖❤️
Thanks!