Direct vs Indirect Belays, when to do which. Some climbing judgements & decision making!
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2024
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Great - would be fun to hear about the leader side of this. I know in Europe lots of parties tend to belay the leader off the anchor. In North America, not as much.
I'm going to do a belaying the leader directly video in the not too distant future :)
Top film 🎥. Thanks for all the 2020 films . Really looking forward to what you film for us in 2021
Happy new year to you and the 🐶
Cheers! Happy new year to you too!
Hi JB, enjoying your videos. Most of my climbing is trad on sea cliffs, I tend to use indirect 99% of the time. This is down to variable rock quality mostly but also because I like to keep some tension on my gear as well as acting as a "shock absorber" as you mentioned. In the Alps it's probably the opposite, direct belay 90% of the time. I hate teaching by rote, all climbing should be mindful in my opinion. Make a considered judgement on everything you do!
Glad you're enjoying them!
Mindful is my word of 2021!
Nice one Jez. Right tool from the tool box 🤣😂. That’s probably the best explanation I have seen for indirect v direct. The Stanage example is a game changer for me. The explanations that have been given to me on choosing indirect always seem to focus on the loading of the anchors rather than thinking ahead which may be better if you have to lower. And all done in less than 10 mins. Result!
Glad you liked it :)
Less than ten minutes, me?!?! Haha!
I'd love to see a video about hanging belays. They're just so flipping messy and it would be great to see how you handle these.
Good shout, I'll give that some thought.
At 7 min 39 its important to talk about the way the belay is done. Dead rope needs to be on the outside of the body. The body can twist more and brake effectively. Page 93 of rock climbing - essential skills and techniques.
I've done other videos on that side of things. This one's focus was on the decision making rather than the setup.
Would love to hear your thoughts on direct belays when lead climbing. Definitely limited to sport climbing but Can be great in a variety of situations like factor 2 fall potentials, escaping belay, fast change over when swinging leads, not getting launched into the wall
Think I'm going to do a video on this subject soon!
I noticed that most of the people are focusing on the belay to the second and not to the leader in a multipitch. Will be nice a series of video about it. Enjoy your time in spain!
Good suggestion! I think I’ll do the next video on that 😊
I agree, this is something that is never clear for me. When a direct or an indirect is better
Great stuff! Thanks! Enjoy climbing in spain, here in bavaria, we are locked down and the crags are mostly snowed in, a tad jealous to be honest ;)!
Well done. I really think that you should start including the GriGri into your video's. It is an amazing tool!
What are the pro's and cons of using the shelf?
I generally belay direct from the anchor when bringing up a second, and always from my harness when belaying the leader. Your example nut anchor would be subject to failing with big upward pull. If you have bolts and chains, that might work with a direct anchor leader belay, but it would still introduce more slack in the system in a leader fall vs a harness belay.
Another good vid JB, I've always used an indirect belay and most of the time I can hold my second without the help from the anchor's. I'm looking forward to setting up some direct belays next year though👍👍
Glad you liked it!
Great video, clear, slow and easy to understand. Thanks. When bringing the second up indirectly off your body, why to you secure your belay device biner on a tied rope loop rather than through the sewn belay loop that came with your harness?
Thanks!
Have a look at this video :) ua-cam.com/video/rpiPEsyKJ08/v-deo.html
Great video as per usual!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks, I learn a lot from your postings... Could you comment on a direct belay with a directional through the master point and whether that has any advantages or disadvantages please?
As in belay from the harness, with the second's rope going up to the belay setup, and back down to them?
@@JBMountainSkills yes, through a carabiner on the belay setup so if the second weights the rope the belayer (leader) is pulled upward.
Great video as always, do you fly there with the boy or do you drive there ? Cheers
Long driiiiiiiiiiiiiive!
I think you missed a variant of indirect belays very useful when you're on fast multi-pitch lines. You set a carabiner on the belay where you pass the rope and then to the belay device on your harness. That way, when the second arrives to the belay station, he can go directly to the next pitch without changes on the rope. If the first is belaying directly on the belay, the second needs to anchor, the first changes the belay device from the belay to the harness, the second unanchor, and then the second can lead the next pitch. This later method is considerably slower than the former.
Not quite missed, just chose not to include it. It's definitely a good option sometimes, but if I'd included it people would have been asking a lot of questions about the pulley effect it creates!
At 7:20 you say the weight is going onto the belayer first, but is that true when the device is clipped to the rope loop (rather than the belay loop) ? I think that's only true with a loose anchor attachment, which is itself problematic with a poor anchor. I would think the device would be on the belay loop if the main goal were to protect the anchor.
Sort of...
I've done a video about it: ua-cam.com/video/rpiPEsyKJ08/v-deo.html
Great video as always. I learnt to climb using a regular ATC and redirecting it through a Carabiner on the master point and it has served me very well. Are there any safety issues with this system? I've operated with the rule that the rope must always be going up to the master point before going down to the climber which can be tight at some belays. Using a guide mode belay does look so much tidier.
It's definitely an option, but as said above, does create a pulley effect putting approx 1.7 times more force onto the anchors.
Not something I'd normally do on trad (but never say never), on bolts though I'm more of a fan of it.
Did you mean to clip into the rope for the indirect belay or were you supposed to clip into your belay loop?
I did yes :) I’ve done a video on that subject.
Brilliant video! What do you think about belaying your second directly from bolts with a gri gri as in with the atc in guide mode? But now you have the option of lowering?
I think I've done a video about it!
Done right Petzl say something along the lines of "it's not ideal, but ok".
I do do it in some circumstances.
First comment ever on YT here, but I really want to say thanks for your videos, so clear and useful. Simple question: why not use the assisted belay option when belaying from your harness? I understand the advantages of belaying from your harness, but not the lost of security by doing it in "manual" mode. Thanks in advance!
Glad you like the videos!
Depending on the device it may be an option... A grigri for example can work well like that, but with a ATC Guide style device it's a bit awkward and hard to manage (never say never, but it's not ideal).
Thanks for the excellent video. I recently did a 40m single pitch route with bolted anchors at the top. My second didn't think they'd get up the route but wanted a go so I chose an indirect belay as I thought I'd end up having to lower them, and while I was sure I could remember how to set up to lower from guide mode on a direct belay, I knew it would be a bit of faff. However a long 30m lower from an indirect belay wasn't much fun and to be honest didn't feel very safe. The route was too long for me to lower off and then belay / lower the second from the ground. Any suggestions (as I'm keen to do the route again!).
What about an extended direct belay with an atc, but routing the brake line to a biner behind you. That way when you lower your second, you can actually be in front of the atc, watching and lowering your second because the brake line is still being pulled to the rear of the atc, providing friction. If you look at some of the better charity abseiling setups, you will visually see what I mean.
09:30 Should be, “Neither of them is…”