Crazy Belay Stuff! Not a rock climbing how to! Things NOT to do!
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- Опубліковано 30 жов 2020
- You get the gist, things not to try at home!
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Raft guide/kayaker here. Aside from lack of anchor points, why don’t you guys use 3pt self equalising anchor to keep loads equal if you want to move around a bit?
Also what happened to using a dead-man prussik? I rarely climb and if I do it involves no fancy gear, fig8 or sometimes Italian hitch.
Sure there’s slight potential for a mess if you’re not careful, but I like the redundancy of it.
"Is it good enough for us both to be hanging on that one bit of kit? ...It's not particularly a great thing, it's going to be exciting"
You have the best quotes!
Haha, thanks!
Interesting tidpit of knowledge Pete Whittaker shared recently regarding topping out: When you're taking off your rock shoes, dont put your fingers through the loops at the back. If you do, and you lose balance... you'll never be able to get your finger out again before you topple off the edge of the top-out. I thought that was a brilliant bit of beta.
Lead Climbing indoors. I fell whilst clipping the anchor. My belayer had been asked to step right into the bottom of the wall by a passing instructor so they could get a group through a narrow passage in the centre. My belayer got ripped up the wall to first clip as I fell but his grigri hit the quickdraw so hard that it pinched the grigri open. Thankfully I had a very experienced belayer it his quick reaction freed the grigri from the quickdraw. I kicked my belayer in the back of the head at first clip. That was a 9m or so fall indoors.
Context. I was 115kg at the time and my belayer around 80kg. So neither of us were small. This was before the edelrid ohm was released to the market. Since owning an ohm this situation has never been an issue as the belayer never ends up any where near first clip. Scary situation all caused by an instructor asking my belayer to step right into the bottom of the wall preventing him from getting his feet onto the wall. In that situation both the belayer and passing instructor learnt a lesson.
9m indoors is quite some way! Glad you were fine!
I've been climbing since the 80's. I've only just discovered these videos. They're an incredible resource. They remind me a bit of the Steve Ashton stuff that they used to publish in the magazines. I've got some pals who mainly climb indoors who will hopefully be getting outdoors this year and I'm gonna be pointing them at quite a few of your videos. Thanks for making them.
Most interesting set up I’ve seen was a single sling thrown over a small boulder, the leader ran his rope through a locker on the sling and then went straight into the belay plate on his harness. As he took in slack the loop of rope attaching him to the anchor got bigger and bigger..
When shouting safe, if other people are climbing at the crag I always add my partners name after the call. I had a close call when my partner climbed a route that went round a corner taking them out of my sight. They shouted that they were almost at the anchor then a few minutes later I heard them shout safe. I took them off belay. The safe shout had come from someone else climbing the route next to my partner. My climber was still stuck on an unexpected tricky last move. Thankfully nothing bad happened but was definitely a lesson learned.
I think I've seen something similar to your first example, scary!
Wonderful tutorial ! Keep it up "old school" Thanks!
I’ve ranted plenty of times about “safe” calls before they’re actually safe. Good tips!
Cheers!
Great video. Love the rant, I feel you are a kindred spirit. Your first point about shouting SAFE as soon as you top out, grates me so much.
I do love a good little rant!
Good for our sanity, not to keep hold of things 😆
Another great video full of great tips.
My one belay pet hate is seeing people taking in (so brake hand up / raised) during a move, especially a tricky move for the climber.
I’ve had it happen to me when climbing and I dropped (thankfully fairly slowly) for quite some distance
Really enjoy your nice explanations and sound of voice, pease continue like this!!!
Thank you! Will do!
I found your channel recently and I have learned so much with your videos! thank you!
Absolute pleasure :)
Walking / scrambling down to the base of a seacliff, and on the wall opposite we could see two climbers. The leader was a good 5m from the top on 'easier' ground and shouts safe. The partner, out of site below, takes him off belay, throws the rope aside and goes about their business sorting out their kit and putting on their shoes on. Leader now totally exposed, and spends the next few mins wandering about in what turned out to be not so 'easy' ground. We started to shout and try and warn them but they took no heed or could not understand. Finally the leader gets himself tied in. For me and my partner it was an absolutely horrible 5 mins of viewing, we had a picture perfect view, sometimes I shudder when I think about what could have happened.
Then there was the time when a second fell off and the leader due to the slack they had left at the anchor was pulled over the edge. Both climbers ended up helmet to helmet with the leader being upside down! The only good thing was the leader was still holding the belay plate under load. Still that is another story..
I think particularly novice climbers feel the need to set up a belay quickly and efficiently and also call 'safe' in a timely manner. I know when I started climbing I felt some of this when leading with more experienced climbers. I think key message is slow down, take time, don't worry about how long your belayer is hanging around down there.
Yeah, slow in steady is the order of the day I reckon :)
I do like the "safe" or particularly "direct on" (belayer "on direct") with the first piece in just to let them know I'm not going anywhere and they can mule me off. On lead, I'm looking at rope management and anchor configuration and the belayer gets a little personal time. Off belay, belay off means it's time to pull up rope and get them on belay to allow them to break down the anchor and get to climbing. I think it often ends up being less chatty. Also, if the belayer yells for direct on, I know it means they have some mess that requires both hands and I should find a comfortable place to hang out but know I'm still protected by the anchor without the rope suddenly getting too tight or having a lot of slack at the wrong time.
Saw a couple of guys from MK Big Rock at Stannage doing their first indoors to outdoors day next to me at High Neb. The guy who topped out was taking a while to set his belay up so I had time to look over. When he sat down between the V part of the belay with one rope pressing over each leg and the stitch plate and business end hanging over his groin I thought it was time to intervene and ask him what would happen if his mate fell. It took awhile, but once he realised he would receive the equivalent of a kick in the groin from the plate plus cutting all the blood off in his femoral arteries.... Classic 'I am climbing grade X in doors' without realising how different rock is and getting the safety stuff down pat. Later had to throw him a spare cam up when he ran of of gear on High Neb.....
A common one i see is people giving a top-rope top-belay with a tubular belay device (atc) but they haven’t flipped the device round and they’re not breaking upwards meaning they have zero holding power.
Basically the same as you demoed @12:38 but off their belay loop/tie-in and they think they’re belaying “normally”.
Same goes for belaying the leader on a multi-pitch as the leader could fall past the belayer causing the same type of loading with a larger fall/force
...“but it’s ok once the leaders placed their first piece” ...well gear can pop💁♂️.k x
one that i hate to see and see quite regularly indoors and outdoors is the belayer standing a full mile away from the bottom of the climb! you might be okay with a grigri (partner doesnt deck), but on a normal plate if you are chucked 5 metres laterally when your partner whips, wouldn't bank on the brake hand remaining on the rope. Gives me the willies!
A common thing to see sadly!
One that I often see is someone building an anchor at ground level then belaying in a standing position. If their mate falls off they will get pulled sharply into the ground causing possible injury and loss of control and their mate will fall a metre more than necessary at best.
Good info. Thanks.
No problem!
Super clear and thorough, thanks! =)
You're welcome!
Thanks for these
Pleasure!
Another great video Jez with solid useful advice and tips - love the fact that you’re all pataguccied and fenixed up 😂😂😂😜👌
Got to look the part!
On adding a draw to an anchor, I was making an anchor a few years back. My 3rd piece of gear was higher than the other 2 and whatever I had done (in hindsight done wrong, I think my ABC wasnt in a straight line) I knew that loading the anchor would result in that 3rd piece of kit lifting at least one of my other pieces and possibly causing it to pop. Then I added a 60cm sling to the 3rd piece which evened everything out. I didnt like adding more items to my safety chain, but I also knew that if I didnt do that then my anchor was seriously compromised.
Long story short, everything jez says should be listened to, but also think through what your doing. There are places where adding a small risk factor eliminates a major risk factor.
Thinking things through is key for sure :)
Thanks for the video! One suggestion, maybe kill the intro music shortly after the intro, it’s kind of hard to hear what you’re saying sometimes
My pleasure!
The videos are a massive learning curve for me so I won't always get that side of things perfect!
You can use a walkie-talkie and be absolutely clear about your situation for a price of a biner each. Regards.
I went to a small local Crag in Shropshire and got chatting to an older pair who were climbing a single pitch, walked around to the top to find the second just holding onto the rope stood right next to a bloody huge tree. The lead had built a good belay at the top of the crag but there were still a few mossy tree roots and a mud bank to get up with a 60ft drop below. Bloody scary stuff watching him navigate to the actual safe area... 😬
Sometimes you don't want to watch, but it's hard not to..!
@@JBMountainSkills yep, especially given it would have been almost zero effort to loop a sling around the tree and clip into it...
Great video. One comment maybe worth mentioning. I’ve never found shouting at a crag safe or necessary. A rope tug system is way better. Shouting safe on a windy sea cliff can be useless or sounds like ‘take’ or you even think it’s your partner but it’s someone else. The system I’ve used for years is 3 solid tugs means safe. The rope being pulled in rapidly then confirms this to your partner. If there is so much drag that your partner can’t feel the tugs (rare) then it’s no problem as they’ll simply keep you on belay. They will soon feel you pull the rope in but as they are not sure will just belay it out to you quickly. At somewhere like Stanage three tugs still means safe. Better than all that hollering you often hear.
I'm not convinced it's better, but it is a super useful tactic to have in the bank for certain situations, like sea cliffs as you say.
I’m not a huge fan of the 3 tugs because often on a wondery route it’s necessary to flick rope off of chicken heads or out of cracks. I did learn to multipitch in a canyon with a river and traffic where it was never possible to hear your partner. We always use the pull rope really fast method. And if the follower is uncertain, keep them on belay until you run out of rope.
At 12:56, could you use a second caribiner, clipped into both strands of the sling, above the masterpoint ( I've heard people call this the shelf), to redirect the braking strand into a zigzag ? Hence making it safe? Improvised guide mode ?
I like your thinking but it doesn’t work I’m afraid. It is a good way of lowering though in some circumstances.
@@JBMountainSkills I'm guessing this doesn't work because you can't change the angle of the brake strand to take in slack?
A detail, but often overlooked, is making sure your braking hand/arm is free to move. If you clip into your master point on the same side as your braking hand, the rope/tape under tension will often be pressing against your forearm and restricting movement.
I may be misunderstanding you, but we should have the master point on the same side as your breaking hand, otherwise when your partner falls, and you get twisted, it's much harder to keep a belay plate in the braking position.
@@JBMountainSkills I see what you mean, having just acted it out. I think I was misunderstanding myself!
Great reminders in that collection. Just about the right amount of ranting IMHO.
You might be quite pumped or buzzing at the top of the climb or pitch so getting into that habit of building the belay before shouting “safe” is a really important one. Either that or people falling off because of complacency. Gravity is a constant; perhaps we should be constant in our habits here? Again it’s a judgement call.
Thanks Jez
Why do you use the rope to make the anchor?
Grigri death grip... as a GriGri user it kills me that some think they're automatic...
I was at Horseshoe this past weekend and the terrible habits I saw were appalling! This dude was using a gri-gri and taking his hand off the brake to payout slack every time. He would cam it open with his left hand and heave out slack with his right. I wanted to say something, but you never want to be that guy that walks around policing everyone. No one will want to talk with you or hang out.
On the point of shouting safe, in my eyes the point of shouting it early is speed and convenience. I've always just made a judgement call, there are plenty of routes that I feel safe as houses at the top of, and having the freedom to run backwards and forwards with my rope whilst my belayer eats a sandwich or fights to get their shoes on is good for us both. I would agree that any kind of doubt (such as grass on the top of the route) then it's just not worth it, but there are times when it's completely fine. Just got to be sensible about the whole thing.
Judgement as always :)
I'm really not convinced it's any quicker though anywhere where it really matters?
@@JBMountainSkills I do a lot of peak grit climbing, and sometimes you're running backwards and forwards to bits of gear which are a few metres back and it can be a bit slow and painful when someone has to feed all of that out through a belay device. I definitely see a time and place for either way. Otherwise completely agree with the video and appreciate the content 👍
loads of small ones, including things you mentioned, but I've seen two particularly bad ones...
1) belaying off a small, detached boulder that was visibly wobbling. I intervened on that one because she was about to start belaying her mate up, just off that.
2) someone tried to set up guide mode using the rope . the climber fell and the rope stretch meant that the belayer was now above the belay device. they had to climb down a bit to reach the device, and then couldn't work out how to lower them! I had to shout instructions on how to lower them with the guide plate...
Seeing crap anchors is definitely one of the scariest things!
Time for a wee in tha bushes
In my university club it was called “paying my respects to the president” I.e. I am going to piss on a Bush.
Does your dog run up that crag ?
Great video! Thanks for sharing.
My pleasure!
Thanks for the video. I found your channel this summer and your videos have been very helpful to me developing my trad skills. Highly appreciated.
I´m using a similar camera. You probably already know this, but if you want to get rid of that focus problem then switch to "manual focus" and set it up before filming. Focus will stay where you want it all the way through the shot.
helpguide.sony.net/ilc/1640/v1/en/contents/TP0001306041.html
Cheers from Sweden
Hi Stefan! Glad they've been helpful!
Thanks for the camera advise! I move around too much for manual focus! I'd accidentally changed the focus zones for that video, my fault!!!
i think the most interesting one for me was someone walking around a tiny tree.....
Hahaha
I'd go one further with the word 'safe' all together and not say it at all. It sounds to close to 'take' and use the words "in hard". Windy day and a gumby saying 'safe' but not in an anchor, then the belyer hears 'take' then pulls the leader off the wall.
off.