Kuririn the Plot Device - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Super #17 Arc Part 4
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Dragon Ball Dissection returns with a little less histrionic ranting but no less confusion about the nonsensical plot. #18, the character with the closest personal connection to the villain, gets but a token appearance. Piccolo has to make a noble sacrifice... again... even though he doesn't have to... again. But, hey, there are some absolutely awesome lines! The bar is a low, but at least I found something to clear it!
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“I guess I’m a Saiyan! Fight fight eat eat!” I’m stealing this, thanks.
22:25 Lol, Vegeta's "Earthling wit the Blood of a Saiyan" speech with work so better in the Baby Arc than here
Your quote of "It takes a lie to travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes." feels pretty on point with this story arc.
The Super #17 arc is so short and yet throws so much at you that you have to stop and explain why it doesn't make sense.
Also wow, I rarely hear anyone quote Vegeta's I am an Earthling speech when fighting against Super #17 and I love hearing the rare moments where he calls Goku by his Earth name.
The Gish Gallop of storytelling
@@BagOfMagicFood Pretty Much.
He’s only ever called Goku “goku” in filler and non canon material :( it feels so weird
I think there’s a super soul referencing his claim
Weird that Enma was willing to make an exception with Vegeta in the Buu arc to be allowed to leave the afterlife and go back to the living world for a bit, but doesn’t make an exception for Piccolo just for a little bit.
Exactly what I though as soon as Lance went through that part.
yeah, even weirder considering piccolo served as god of earth for a few hundred years. guess heaven doesn't give out loyalty bonuses.
I don't understand that. You'd think that God would have some benefits in the afterlife? but maybe it was because it was a joke that Yemma doesn't get along with him?
9:59 Another senseless victim of "The GT Jaw"
Lmao that thing is MASSIVE
I think the Thing about the original villain designs of GT is that most of have that “over-designed 90s comic book character" stink to them, especially Super 17. All he’s missing are some pouches to go with his leather straps!
At least he’s not inflected with young blood disease.
I hate Omega Shenron's design the most, honestly think Toriyama phoned that one in
What Super Seventeen's appearance reminds me of is when the 1995 MegaMan cartoon did an episode about MegaMan X, who's supposed to be a somewhat more "grown -up" take on MegaMan. But that show had already turned the original MegaMan into a full-grown man with big muscles, so it made X look ridiculously tall and emotionally stunted and have basically the opposite attitude toward killing his own kind as his game incarnation, just so he would still be a contrast to classic Rock.
“I love media criticism. I love being critical. It’s never enough for me to just like or dislike something. What’s always been exciting for me is when it clicks in my mind precisely why I like or dislike something.”
This here is part of why I love Dragon Ball Dissection. How self-indulgent it is (really hope that’s a good word to use in this context ^^;). It’s just as much of Lance putting together what he likes about Dragon Ball and why he likes it, as it is content for others to be entertained by.
It’s also very inspiring for him to spell it out as that is exactly what his series has motivated me to do: appreciate criticism as an activity not for the sake of praising good and lambasting bad, but rather exploring why something feels good or bad.
If only Dragon Ball established that a powerful being like a super saiyan 3 could scream a dimensional warp back to reality.
Piccolo is probably kicking himself for forgetting that since he witnessed it twice.
You know I never thought of that why didn't Goku just get told to do that? GT really hates Piccolo Toriyama's favorite character.
@@spartanq7781 Tbf the Room of Spirit and Time is a smaller, artifical dimension, whereas Hell is huge and makes up half of the universe, so screaming your way out of the latter would likely be harder.
@@moef8971 Ok and?
@@spartanq7781 To be fair to GT, its pretty consistent with treating Piccolo like shit, like Toriyama did in the Buu arc when Satan was his favourite.
@@spartanq7781I think Mister Satan was Akira’s favorite character, but I think Piccolo was a dead second.
Given how this arc handles things like Yellow’s Plane or Black’s robot suit, I bet Kuririn still has that backpack in heaven
Goku can go SSJ4 whenever he wants to.
In that form he can use Instant Transmission.
Just gonna leave that there.
Woah, thanks. I never thought I never managed to pick that up. It's even more stupid than I thought...
@@gokunenn4243 right?
To be fair the dragonball fandom has just accepted TFS's 16 backstory.
the son part or Goku killing the son part? because I think that was canon before, even cemented in Super-hero
a interesting idea they could have done
the heros trying to prevent the 17s from fusing
18 fighting real 17
and vegeta fighting hell fighter 17
while the rest deal with the doctors
having 18 and vegeta team up would not only be a nice call back to their fight
but a good way to show their development
Dying 4 times... You know, that has nothing to do with getting another chance from Shenlong or whatever he grants... at this point Kuririn has proved he simply cannot hold on to live. The universe wants that man DEAD!
Lance sort of pointed out the greater problem this arc has, that the whole thing is just a bunch of stuff happening to justify the good guys trying to use the Dragon Balls to reset everything, so that the big villains of the story can actually show up. In that sense, Kuririn's death is just a plot-device to unleash the Dark Dragons for the final story arc of GT.
No wonder everything's so half-baked and thrown together, and even what could have been interesting narratives are ignored. The purpose of this thing is just to force the the heroes to get the Dragon Balls together, so that the real bad guys can come into play.
that’s why i go back and forth on whether this should really even be considered its own arc. considering how extremely short it is and primarily exists to create a conflict for the shadow dragon arc, it kinda feels like this could just be seen the same way as the “black star dragon ball arc” is just the first part of the baby arc. both of them have wildly different tones from the later stories and don’t really get a resolution until the end of the next arc.
You'll always be *my* UA-cam nakama, Fusion.
20:47 This moment, out of everything in GT, is what I’ve been looking forward to the most to see you discuss. After every murderous bump on the road towards now, how GT characterizes Vegeta I feel at last makes his flimsy redemption worth it. He may still have his Saiyan pride, but now he is fully willing to announce in defiance to the enemy that he is a member of Earth’s people and he will protect his home the best he can.
Wait, doesn't Gero have the ability to absorb peoples' energy by grabbing them? You think he would've done that while he was grabbing Pan while she was holding him hostage. Guess he forgot.
Ironic given the random addition to Super 17's abilities being that same skill.
No one talks about that vegeta line because
1 no one's watched GT
2 everyone hates GT Vegeta... despite him being peak Vegeta
2:15 Boy am I glad to hear you address that. As a huge One Piece fan, I am so sick of that word and all the idiots claiming it to be untranslatable. Cuz, you know, it not like the official manga and anime translations have been able to successfully translate it. Not to mention all the times it was used in other anime, as shown in this video.
For some reason, I love the fact that one of Super 17 abilities is that he can detach his hand and fire a mini turret gun in his wrist. Because apparently bullets can somehow hurt Vegeta.
Don’t worry, he probably engulfed them in k- Oh wait, he doesn’t have that
@@MegaMachiOnline If you're referring to Ki, Super 17 DOES have that.
@@Zacman1123 they have an infinite energy generator
they have genki
but they don’t actually use the same energy as someone like goku
@@MegaMachiOnline i thought they used Ki.
I admit I don't have my finger on the pulse of Internet drama, but isn't the whole "'nakama' is untranslatable" thing just a discredited meme at this point? In my observation I've seen it used in a more tongue-in-cheek fashion than in any other sense.
It honestly depends on who you're talking to
For the most part, yeah, it’s just a relic of late 2000’-early 2010’ FanTL jank. Nowadays everyone agrees there’s a dozen ways to translate it.
I think I remember it starting from the OnePiece manga, since Luffy had a fixation with the term and used it in a very specific way. Fan-translators got into a civilwar about how to translate it and it eventually became a banner for the side they were on. 🤔
The overfixation on that specific word definitely might matter. I think a more elegant way would be to use the most appropriate translation based on context but add a TL note saying "nakama". Or no TL note and let people just hear it.
Imho, nakama is translatable, to be "my brother or sister from war or other trying circumstances." If you served in the military or EMS, you know what Nakama is even if you never heard the word before.
Vegeta also introduced the awesome new signature Final Shine Attack, which for sure will vaporize any threat to the earth and serve him well in the fu......
It is also green.
DBS and GT could really use a school group project scenario. They both do right what the other does completely wrong: Super uses legacy characters like Freeza and N.17 to great effect, but fumbles it’s original story ideas or just attempts to retread old ones through nostalgia (Piccolo’s sacrifice, Gohan Beast, Vegeta’s Final Flash, etc). Meanwhile GT seems directionless when it comes to any character that isn’t Goku (and they don’t even use him that well) but it has much more original and interesting concepts for story (nonsensical as they might be). All that being said, it’s easy to see why there’s equal amounts of reverence and critique for these two DB sequels.
GT's original concept is only its last arc, it has been repeating something DB and DBZ(movies or not) have done so far.
I don’t think that reading of DBS is very fair, legacy characters like Frieza are absent for 90% of the story like genuinely, and Broly so far only has a film and some change to his name. Now I do think they’re handled very well, but they’re used sparingly. I actually think chars like Beerus, Zamasu, Granolah, etc. are wonderful and add a lot to the story, Zamasu especially being my favorite db villain of all time and I’ve found myself writing several essays about the guy. Atleast in the anime, he’s a phenomenal character with some shockingly good writing behind him.
GT has way more integral flaws for me. Down the visual language of the series, it’s grungy, very 90’s and in general very dark both in colors and in overall tone - atleast that’s how it is conceptually. The show just doesn’t appeal looks-wise to me and feels like it’s trying too hard with a ton of its designs. Omega Shenron for me is probably the most bland and uncreative villain design I’ve ever seen. There’s no Tori wackiness or tongue-and-cheek creativity to his design like say, Jiren being a Roswell alien, he’s just a dragon with spikes.
GT also struggles with its own cast - primarily by dumping 95% of its expansive cast from Z, and instead focusing on - and not developing - the 4 characters they chose to take up for the show! Like it’s crazy, Pan should’ve been much more recognizable and beloved had she been written to not be insufferable, and Goku just steals the shine in nearly every episode. Goku is so much stronger than everyone around him that there’s actually no tension since you know he can just go SSJ and win the day.
I feel like a ton of GT’s praise comes from people reflexively propping it up as an alternative to Super, and not by its own merits. Super has more engaging characters, they actually spend time on other cast members, they have the better villains and personalities, and (imo) it has the better worldbuilding and facilitates better stories. I really don’t see it as a 50/50 each series does the opposite thing well, I think it’s like 80/20 in Super’s favor, Super is just the current entry that ppl hate on so GT gets thrown softballs by some in the fandom.
Petition for next episode to be titled: "Hair Push Backs and Hail Mary Attacks"
(Referencing the hair gesture 17 uses to push back his hair and the constant attacks Goku keeps launching at 17 hoping to finish him, but Oh No! It didn't work! Shocker...)
YES! It totally SHOULD be named this!
You deserve more subs, I love this channel. I won't lie - geekdom, masakoX, mike @ LSM... I like them but they feel a bit stale and grifty. Your channel is basically the most refreshing dragon ball channel imo
How are Geekdom and LSM "Grifty?"
Yeah, I wish MasakoX would do stuff besides DB What If's again.
I'm still waiting on episode 3 of Rosario+Vampire Abridged...
@@mechajay3358 Griftter has lost all meaning if it had any to begin with...
@@mechajay3358 I suppose he means that they try to appeal to the general DB audience more and feel a bit detached and impersonal, similar to how "corporate" channels do.
Mike and Geekdom sure. But not MasakoX. I do wish he did less what ifs now. Seems like that's about all he does. But I wouldn't say grifter.
Since it'a a nod to TeamFourStar's free sundae joke, I'm surprised you didn't include a little graphic on the card to show that Kuririn already got his free sundae on death number three.
When you brought up those flashbacks to Vegeta and Nappa during the Saiyan Saga, it just further elucidated the gulf not only between the writing, but also the drawing ability between these eras.
I would like to point out that whenever Krillen or 18 had talked 17 he seem ro have come back to his senses a little bit or gives a shocked face.
Even the Fusion 17 does the same thing when confronted by 18 they definitely could've went somewhere more with it but that's detail that is skimmed over.
Big forehead vs dotted forehead
20:56 They named a Z-Soul in Xenoverse after it, so that's something.
I can't help but notice the hilarity of you uploading a video about Kuririn dying on memorial day.
19:38 I wish they had had Gero absorb the blast since he still had his hands. The only reason why he didn't before in Z was because he was missing one hand and 17 got Gero from behind.
10:05 Super 17 looks like the guy form The Room "YOU'RE TEARING ME APART, 18!"
I never thought I'd see the day where my man complements Dbs
SAVECOSMO08
He should be doing it more. Honestly, I don't see the problems with it.
@@kokroughtoss1257 Really, you don't? Makes sense.
@@kokroughtoss1257 He has the weirdest dragonball tastes as he hates transformations, fight scenes, things being brought back/repeated/similar. Super is really like the movies as Toriyama has minimal designs/suggestions while toei bring the fight scenes and cool transformations fans like as well as reusing stuff if not directly bringing stuff back for nostalgia.
If it was up to him he'd have dragonball be a romcom starring yamcha and bulma as a couple and the only conflicts being soap opera bickering instead of epic fights
@@austriacontinente154saying lance hates fight scenes is one of the stupidest comments I’ve ever seen. If you don’t like his content then you don’t have to be here
2:10 God! As a Japanese speaker (second language, but after living in Japan for 4 years and a half, including going to school with native speakers, I think I qualify) this is one of my pet peeves.
You know those drawings of women with anatomically impossible bodies and how people say they were created "by people who haven't seen a real woman in their lives". Well, people who refuse to give "nakama" a translations are the same, but change "haven't seen a real woman in their lives" for "haven't had a real conversation with a native Japanese speaker in their lives". Except that unlike the first group, these haven't the excuse of just being horny.
I hear you. I'm an N1, I live in Japan, I use it every day for work. "Nakama" isn't a special word at all. It just has different meanings depending on the context, ranging from "collaborator" to "friend" but it's always translatable. And for all I love One Piece (it is my favourite manga ever), the fandom doesn't handle that discussion very graciously a lot of the time.
This may sound a little unrelated but do you know the full context of the word “Otokonoko” I ask because the paper Mario remake recently came out and there’s been some “debate” over a particular characters gender whose character is described as one in the original Japanese text?
@@brandonlyon730 Otokonoko literally means boy. Otoko is man and ko is child
@@brandonlyon730 Without any other context, that's just "boy". But media can get creative with character's genders very frequently, so for instance if you added a concept like こころは男の子 (a boy in spirit) then you would probably be dealing with a character not necessarily biologically male (could be trans, could be a robot, could be someone like pinocchio). There are several ways to have relatively straightforward terms become ambiguous depending on context. I mean, that's for all languages, not just Japanese.
@@brandonlyon730 He is a boy/trap/femboy/crossdresser that likes to look cute, the west doesnt understand that they are many flavors to this in japan and think that anything and everything under the goddamm sun must be trans.
Otokonoko has nothing to do with being trans, its a femboy/tomgirl: a male very femenine in appereance that likes to look cute and femenine.
Trans is changing your body with surgery and denuncing your birth gender for something new, a new identity with a new gender and name.
He is a cute ghost that likes to look cute and its tormented by his awful family.
The discussion to this clown show has gotten so ridiculous that twitter now wants to claim futanari as being trans just like trap/femboy/tomboy, its stupid.
At the risk of becoming the target of an anime crusade, I believe Nakama means family. Oh, no, wait, that’s Ohana, my bad.
Which means nobody gets left behind...or forgotten.
LMAO the one piece fansubbers shade. as a one piece fan those guys are sooooooo annoying
I always thought that the hell fighter 17 should have turned into liquid metal and fused with the real 17 that way. I know it would look like a Buu absorption, but being a “machine mutant” the hell fighter 17 could take after Baby in that way. More over it that could have been a T-1000 reference sine the whole Cell saga was originally a Terminator rip off.
Terminator rip off? Well, Trunks could be Kyle Reese to the extent that he's a time traveler and...well...that's it. He has some connection to a baby, but it's in a very different way. Cell himself is a robot from the future who's gone back in time to kill specific people, but that's not to prevent any future war or alter the timestream, it's purely for his own benefit. Honestly, I feel like it's all a bit of a reach. The similarities are quite superficial. I wouldn't be surprised if Toriyama joked about Terminator being an inspiration at some point, as it was popular when he was writing the Cell arc, but we have a very clear idea of the development of the Cell arc creatively. To get them to the point where they were fighting a time traveling robot involved a series of editor vetos on villains long after the robots and time travel aspects of the story had been established.
Dr. Myu betraying Dr. Gero is really weird because, y'know, why not just throw the idea of universal domination at Dr. Gero? Or, better yet, why not enjoy having the entire universe under your thumb while your partner contents himself to a smaller slice of it? There is literally no downside here.
On a semi-related note, it's really weird that Dr. Gero is shocked/sad that Android 17 is betraying him considering that he kidnapped him and his sister, experimented on them, and planted bombs in their bodies. And that was BEFORE he recently forcibly brainwashed 17 into serving him again.
2:20 as a One Piece fan, I apologise for how the fandom I am a part of has over wanked that word.
As a sub watcher, I'm familiar with Vegeta's line "Sayain blood still coarses through my veins, and I call the earth my home."
Either way, it's my favorite Vegeta line of all time; as you mentioned it would have been more impactful/meaningful in the Baby Arc.
02:05 Shoutout to the time that Funimation unironically used the word "nakama" on a One Piece DVD cover.
I think the dragon balls should have started to crack once Dende and Piccolo started to make a bridge to Hell. Like it would show how the god who created the dragon balls and the current god play with negative energy and causes them to crack.
But that would require the writers to remember that Dende has anything to do with the dragonballs and we know tha they don't.
Now that would've made so much more sense.
Damn, for all things super borrows from GT and AF I only now realized that the villain fusing with himself is the next on the list
Picoloo calling out king daimaoh and causing a tantrum on heaven was was the best scene along with 18 and 17 reunion, the first half of goku vs no.17 had some nice animation with some incredible direction, sadly it goes away when he transforms in to SSJ4.
Also i do like the GT designs of 18 and his daughter more than the original desings we see in the manga.
Poor Clearin
21:06 that is actually a very recurrent quote here in the Latin American fandom..... even with the people who REALLY HAVE A HATE BONER for GT!!!
god bless Latin American DB fans.
Krillin should be capable of fighting most of enemies from hell. Why couldn't they have him defeating some Freezer's soldiers or something?
The nakama confusion is very understandable but simple to actually understand. If I call a coworker “buddy” that doesn’t really mean anything, it’s just a slightly nicer version of “dude”. If I call my dog “buddy” it is full of love and care. The word doesn’t change meaning, they both mean friend. So same with nakama, where sometimes it’s used to just mean a more casual friend, sometimes it’s used to mean people in the same workforce and alligned on goals like how it’s used here in the episode, and sometimes it means closest best friend in the world like in One Piece. They all mean the same thing in dictionary terms, and you could translate slightly different to make the nuances clear, like make 17 say something like “we are together” to show that it’s a bit more cold and meaning more the practical sense of both androids. And in One Piece’s case use something like “family” to show that this is something deeper. But I think when translating this word specifically it is best to just use “friend” and let the viewers decide with context how much weight it has (almost like how it was originally intended)
Why didn’t Dr. Gero just absorbed Pan’s energy ?
"Oh my god, they killed Kuririn!"
"You bastards!!"
I know it was technically filler, but Z allowed goku and Pikkon to go fix the Frieza and Cell thing and go back up so why couldn't Piccolo go down, free Goku and go back up?
Fantastic video! I can't help but feel bad for the writers. Much of this arc and ideas are either reheated leftovers or the store brand product with Dragon Ball Z being the name brand product.
Also that Vegeta line is fantastic! Glad the writers had a few well executed ideas here.
Anyone who says that the word 仲間 "exists beyond the realm of translation" grossly underestimates how often pairs of languages each have words that the other doesn't have an exact 1:1 translation of. Japanese doesn't have an equivalent to the English word "the", and unlike 仲間, its meaning is actually extraordinarily difficult to explain to native Japanese speakers. Does that make the word "the" uniquely special? No, of course not. It just means English and Japanese are two very different languages that evolved differently and work differently. The Japanese word 仲間 isn't even all that alien to English, as compared to basically the entire grammar of Japanese working in ways that are so dissimilar to English that it might be one of the hardest languages to learn if English is your first language.
These episodes are some of my least favorite of all GT, if not the lowest point of the entire series. I hated how they handled Kuririn, I hated how they handled 18, I hated Super 17, I hated the ever changing rules of the afterlife. I hate it. I hate this part. Thank God it didn't stay for too long.
12:22 If anything they just made King Yemma come off very incompetent.
Super 17: I feel something wrong in my ear. Some bad static.
Dr Myu: that can be patched up later.
Dr Gero realizes from past experience: oh no, not again. Dr Myu- you need to get the hell out of here. His earaches cause heads to roll!
Dr Myu: and now I no longer have use for you.
Dr Gero: understandable villain logic, but I’m trying to warn you if he says following orders, I’d run to the farthest place away from here. Especially, if he says he’s following-
Super 17 kills Gero.
Gero’s head: you know what have fun.
Babidi in hell: I’ll just watch the carnage unfold. He’s getting…a head of himself!
Super
And then Vegeta throws a dog biscuit at him
I personally think-and may have mentioned before-that Nos. 17 and 18 are the most boring villains of original Dragon Ball, in how bland they feel after they off Dr. Gero and run around with No. 16. Ah yes, DBGT, why not center an arc around arguably the MORE boring of the two! He hasn’t been made a _somewhat_ interesting character by DB Super yet, and to escalate matters, we’re literally creating _another_ one of him, so this is sure to be a fantastically botched arc! And while we have 18 in the mix, no need for any long overdue story use for Kuririn or characterization for Marron! Nope, just focus on the part of 17 and 18 that got next to no expansion in original Dragon Ball and will only be briefly touched on here.
…I hate this so much.
How can you think 17 and 18 are the most boring when Cell exists? They have clearly laid out motives with wanting to have fun and clearly laid out character traits, unlike Cell who just wants to be the strongest one second and suddenly cares about what Dr Gero wanted the next.
Cell barely has a reason to do anything he does, and barely has character while he does it.
@@genyakozlov1316I think 17, 18 and Cell all have the same issue, but there is a lot more narrative satisfaction around Cell, where as 17 and 18 can be seen as being chopped off at the knees as villains. I actually really like Cell, but I can’t argue with your points about his motivation, I just think I like the overall story arc.
I liked 17 and 18's wandering around. They had personality and you get a vibe from them that they aren't really villains, more kids who have gotten into a bit of trouble and are now on a bad path.
@@genyakozlov1316 At least Cell has narrative ties to the main characters. 17 and 18 do have character traits, but they never shine through in any meaningful way. They functionally have no personality, and their motivations kill the arc’s tension, because they’re not even doing anything threatening.
From his introduction, Cell is presented as a major threat. Hell, 17 and 18 in the future timeline come off scarier and more threatening as villains, since their desire to have fun directly puts others in danger.
They’re the same as Tao Pai Pai for me. Just disposable strong characters for the heroes to punch to overcome a wall.
Cell has no narrative ties to the main characters...him being composed of the main character isn't exactly that important to the story.
More like plot deadvice.
Will he be stupid?
GT Goku "Yes i´m here."
I more look at Dr. Gero inevitably being killed by Android 17 as some kind of twisted fate. Dr. Myu betraying Dr. Gero was just a means to an end.
I'm gonna be honest: Gero > Myu
Both kinda suck. I have no idea why Gero has no color themed name but that would help him actualy feeling like a Red Ribbon Army character he is supposed to be BUT atleast he has a connection to 17, Myu doesn't.
A stretch, but Super Hero implies Gero might not have been a founding member of the army, or just a guy they financed. Hedo mentions "my parents despised [the army] for twisting my grandpa's mind."
Great video!
I know you don’t care about power levels but it drove me crazy how useless Uub is against super 17. Vegeta did a better job and he still can’t achieve super saiyan 3. Uub has already merged with Buu and it didn’t help one bit
How did Vegeta do a better job
@@kaidenjohnson2624 he kept getting back up and coming for more. Uub kinda just disappeared.
As I mentioned in a previous video, in DB Xenoverse where the three main villains team up, they all have their own motivations.
Super Yixinglong wants to destroy the universe. Super Baby 2 objects to that and wants to rule over the universe. Super No. 17 doesn't care what they want as long as he can be the strongest in the universe. For Super Yixinglong and Super No. 17 it makes sense due to the nature of what and why they're made of. But Baby who is also an artificial creation, seems to have developed that megalomaniac desire on his own. His revenge was pre-programmed into him, but I highly doubt the Tsufurian King had any desire to rule over the universe.
Honestly if you wanted to have more elements in place from the preceding arcs, have it so Myuu and Gero fuse (Geruu, Myro, Gyruu?). Myuu is a machine mutant so maybe add him with the ability to absorb Gero. Or since Gero is somewhat of an expert with creating beings which can absorb one another, have him upgrade himself. Heck even make it a stalemate where they absorb each other at the same time (each of them planned on absorbing the other to become the dominant one).
I know it's Goku time, but giving them a secondary villain to fight would give the other Saiyans the chance to fight. Vegeta would still focus his efforts on Super 17 since he is the strongest. And Gyruu (or whatever his name is) would maybe focus his efforts on Trunks and Gohan. The former because his "future" counterpart was the catalyst to change the timeline, and the latter since it was Gohan who ultimately thwarted his plans by killing Cell. And maybe the latter also applies because some of the conflict in Super 17 is that Gohan saved half of him by killing Cell.
Heck by having fused characters, it would give Gotenks a chance to shine, perhaps having a SSJ3 Gotenk briefly take the upperhand in battle against Gyruu until he burns himself out. Maybe Gotenks or Gohan get the kill, or maybe Super 18 still does, but it makes the fight more interesting (as would having more of the Z fighters (half Saiyans and not) fight against previous villains.
This is where Dragon Ball Heroes actually shines a little by bringing back previous villains and pitting them against contemporary Dragon Team. They could have easily done that by having Goku and Gohan go to hell to fight Frieza and Cell. Then Piccolo is not only helping out Goku, but Gohan as well.
What's funny is eventually we see Gohan don the orange Gi later on. Instead of meaning practically nothing, we could have had more plot development related to that where Gohan regrasps his Ultimate power (like he does before the ToP in Super).
Piccolo needing to go to Hell could have been something else too. Where due to the damage done for villains to escape Hell, Goku couldn't escape Hell from his various means (e.g. teleportation or climbing out through Yemma's desk). And Yemma saying he can't help send Piccolo there temporarily because of this either, that the only way to send him there would be a way which would result in him being there permanently.
What you can say Super did well is give characters other than Goku (and Vegeta) time to shine, especially Gohan, Piccolo, and the Androids.
Super A17 stole DBGT Videl's hair style. I enjoy your narrative mainly becsuse of your witty writing and voice inflection.
Dbs: makes irrelevant characters somewhat relevant again
Dbs Haters: that sucks
Dbgt: makes irrelevant characters even more irrelevant and disposable
Dbs Haters: dbgt is peak dragon ball
Gero and Myuu were voiced by THE SAME GUY in Latin America, until this plot forced them to coexist so they had to get another actor for Myuu.
Foot note: They also ended up voicing the final villain in GT.
This was even worse than the non-moment between Vegeta and Nappa. FighterZ did a better job with Nappa reacting to the fact that Vegeta got married and had kids with an Earth woman and became 'friends' with Goku. Nappa died so quick, he never found out how Vegeta changed.
Afterlife shouldn't be regarded as a joke too much. There's a reason why restrictions exist. And it's a good thing. Enma shouldn't be able to do anything just by using his stamps. But I agree with one thing: Evil souls should be cleansed, no bodies, nothing. Living souls, no androids, no 19, maybe Cell. who knows.
I hate when stories bring back villains just to have them die in the exact same way again. Writers think it's "poetic", but it's just lazy and uninteresting. I wanna see NEW stuff with characters, to see their story CONTINUE, not just happen again.
So ive had native speakers describe the term "nakama" as like...."friendly" or "allied"
Commonly it can be friend, or ally or buddy and alot of other things but basically it just indicates that they are on the same team.
All tomodachi are nakama, but not all nakama are tomodachi
for example a troop stuck behind enemy lines sees another dude he has never met in the same uniform. They are not friends they would be compatriots or countrymen yet that would be a use of "nakama" or like if I was on an ailen planet and saw another human I wouldn't say thats my friend but I would say "nakama" this is commonly how Naruto uses it hence why they very commonly translate it as "comrade"
However there are... certain fandoms but lets say for context... perhaps a sailors on a ship. Maybe they are going thrue a lot together, they might be friends "tomodachi" but they might also be "nakama" and communicating something deeper with that may be more of a value judgement on the idea of being shipmates rather than the term itself because nakama is also a term you would use to decribe people who are part of a crew "Ichimi"
I will not name what anime or fandom causes me to say this...
but its the one you are guessing.... and also parasyte
All that to say it may be a strech and I guess it would take a deeper look at the dialogue, but its not out of the question for in this context 17 making some kinda appeal not just to being siblings, but to them both being androids.
That said its weird that Cell is in this arc and they kinda... dont do that.
Oh well, this comment means nothing but it makes the algorithm go
Ah, so Dragon Ball has it's own equivalent of "'Keikaku' means 'plan'".
It's actually more of a One Piece thing, but as he points out in this video, the word shows up in a lot of anime/manga because it is just a word, not something special like all the idiot weebs seem to think.
Is it really so triggering to translate Nakama? Has any of those people ever heard of the word polysemy? Just because there isn't a specific word that perfectly matches the Japanese one, there are still multiple ones we can use depending on the context: companion, partner, associate, comrade, etcetera. In this case it can mean siblings or partners, given that can also indicate members of the same family (or category in general).
New video!
6:48 to 7:39
Criticism of someones work is not bashing someone, nor is explaining why you dislike it bashing them or their work. You have never bashed or insulted the people who work on DB, DBZ, DBS, or DBGT. Simply being negative towards a subject is *not* a bad thing or an attack and I dearly wish people would see that. You shouldnt have to feel that your criticism is aggressive because critique is not an attack and artists and audience really really need to relearn that (I feel). Simply not liking a thing and being able to articulate why shouldnt be seen as aggressive or overly emotional
Gt is garbage overall. Hunt for the Dragon ball arc and half of the baby arc were enjoyable. Super 17 arc had a little promise and a cool design but was rushed and lame. And the evil dragons arc is such trash it's not even funny. Only a few good episodes in that arc.
Just a thought. Why didn't goku just turn ssj4 and use instant transmission ? In z goku was able to go back and forth from other world via instant transmission effortlessly
2:05 >when people get upset at you trying to explain a word that we don't have because we don't have the 10000% best way to describe the concept and are therefore incapable of fully expressing it because of our language (what a load of wank. Not shitting on you, shitting on people who get that upset over someone trying to explain a foreign word's unique meaning to the best of their ability)
I love Vegeta’s speech and declaration that he’s an Earthling. It’s a shame most people don’t remember that. It’s even more of a shame that Goku’s able to do more in all his forms against 17 than anyone else there (including Oob)!
Of course, like always, it's the Goku show. If you don't got spiky yellow hair, your not relevant at all/in the slightest. They can't actually do anything that actually affects the plot right?
In hindsight, while Piccolo likely wouldn’t have any interest in hanging out with him, I think it would’ve been cute if Dabura showed up when we see Heaven.
22:25 yup. We got that story. It’s called the Granolah the Survivor arc
Would it have been better if we had a scene with Dr Gero and Cell together ?
He already brought that up.
4:13 Yeah going through Budokai tenkaiichi 2's Attempts to adapt this Plot was a Trip. And felt like an 18 butchering even then.
I always read Gero's expression as "Myu, my bro in evil development, whyyy!?"
I always thought the reason Vegeta killed Nappa was because Goku reduced him into a useless cripple
Between this and DBGTFS this is the most I've ever thought about GT
I find it hard to believe both that combining 2 17s makes a being stronger than Super Perfect Cell, composed of 17, 18, and Imperfect Cell, and more so that Goku is just that far above everyone else. He's able to stagger Super 17 with mere punches, whereas everyone else can't do shit to him; they literally hit him as hard as they can, and he doesn't move or react at all. You're telling me Gohan, Uub, and Vegeta are just that far below Goku and Super 17 at this point? In fact, that fight with all the other heroes is just insulting to those characters.
Gero's statements that #17 was always supposed to be his strongest creation, but just never got there, are also ridiculous. It's transparent backpedaling to justify how an old foe could still pose a threat.
Looking for a diagetic explanation for how Super 17 is so unbelievably strong (stronger presumably than even Baby) and we're forced to take refuge in the ambiguity that one half of this equation is a machine mutant made from weird alien science. That's an X-factor that lets you leapfrog to wherever the hell you want.
Shouldn't the tail turn golden too in super Saiyajin form?
Super 17 looks awesome 😎
I hate that piccolo is just left in Hell.
if you call it Hell.
I hope you eventually cover the Super manga and anime too
Super 17: "I'll never understand these Earthlings with their emotions."
The writers do realize 17 isn't a robot, right? That he had his human biology strengthened and SOME machine parts added, and he lived an entire life before that as a normal human?
I don't think none of the writers remember as they all see them as Androids instead of Cyborgs.
@@SaanWukong It also begs the question how Gero and Myuu got 17's DNA to clone him in Hell.
@@reversalmushroom I’ve been literally wondering that ever since I was a kid. I have to assume that he either isn’t literally 17 but an actual Android just in his image like how 16 is just an android replacement of Gero actual son or the one from Future Trunks timeline mind controlled
The machine mutant Hell Fighter 17 is the one in control of the combined form, so it's his opinion being voiced and not that of the original #17.
Krillin keeps on dying...
I admit I was upset when this aired in the UK...
Okay, aside from my little negative rant in this comments section, yay! New MistareFusion video that I can actually watch on release! This is gonna be another beautiful journey just going to the end of GT. You plan on doing Super at any point? Or even Kai if you need filler episodes? LOL
I guess the crossovers with animated Dr. Slump and then Neko-Majin come first?
You guys are to smart for me
Look at Bleach. Kubo abuses the afterlife as he pleases within his own rules. of the afterlife. . :D
Can't wait until you cover Super :p