Had to re-upload because my render messed up the reaction time test in the video. If you wanna be a homie, leave the video in a tab playing with no sound (for the algorithm). Love you guys.
I have worked with 3d modeling software for many years, so I have defaulted to using camera grip with the side button of my mouse as the grip hotkey. It has worked amazingly well for the last 5+ years across many programs. Very intuitive and feels like I'm actually grabbing the screen and moving it around.
2:29 oy naaaah I paused the video when the box hit green at that exact same time 0.193. I got so scared when he put the number, I was like how tf did he know. Bro I swear Jenkins is watching me.......
I tried it 3 times and all of them were 193, so I assume it doesnt sum up the way we think it does, it probably does like, 90 193 330.. or something like that, and so if your reaction time is between 193 and 330 he will be making his point on the video
was bout to comment this. Kinda spooky dude. But that actually makes sense cause its a video at 60fps and 193 is the spot where alot of people would end up cause theres multiple frames and is around avg.
One thing that wasn't mention with camera grip is you can hold the button to center your hero on the screen and then use camera grip to offset that hero position on the screen. If you're walking through the jungle you can use this technique to look ahead and then have your cursor _completely_ free to quickcast or whatever you need to do.
Honestly, switching to wasd has been something I was considering. After playing recent total war games which use qweasd for camera (q and e for rotation) and having a full mmo mouse, Switching to wasd camera and then using numbers for abilities might be really good for me.
"When this box changes from red to green, pause the video" Me watching on 1.5x speed and forgetting: "Why the fuck is my reaction time so slow, have I been slow my whole life? How have I never realised this." Then I realise I'm just slow in a different way.
WASD camera mover here since I started playing in 2013. Thank you Jenky for finally validating me. All these years of torment from my friends who spectated my games are finally put behind me and I can die happy. I may not be able to micro, and I may not be able to buy more than 3 active items when I play Invoker, but I can now rest easy in the knowledge that WASD camera movement is valid.
WASD player here (been playing since I started to play dota in early 2013): For active items I use Z ; X ; C ; alt+Z ; alt+X ; alt+C (I usually put single cast or selfcast abilities in alt+ buttons so I don't accidentally activate BKB for example) For micro I use 1 (Select-Focus on hero); 2 for ALL units BESIDES the hero; 3 for ALL units; 4 for specific unit, 5 to select courier For abilities I use: Q ; E ; R ; F (ult); T (tp); alt+R for 5th ability; and >< for 6th ability (mine is LA keyboard) The Alt+R is because there's no other autocast abilities (except for Bloodlust and Liquid FIre) that requires autocast on R otherwise you can't autocast Frost Arrows for example, and >< is next to shift. Some WASD people have moved to ESDF so you can use more buttons in the left side of your movement, but I'm so used to put my left hand naturally on WASD. Other bindings are: V for team chat (kind of global tbh); B for voice chat; Y for Wheel, Space for denies; G for stop.
WASD player since 2011 here, and I just use a Razer Naga with the 12 buttons on the side for items, shop, and courier control. I use 1234rf for spells which let's me use q for select hero, e for select all units except hero and c for select all units, which I can use to mirco well enough. Not Puppey level Chen micro, but I get along just fine with Visage, Naga, NP, etc.
Thank you Jenkins for making a stand for all of us WASD players! I have been playing left hand camera (WASD) and items (123456) right hand mouse abilities (6 buttons on side of mouse). People say you’ll never get to high mmr! I’ll prove them wrong! I love this video!
You forgot to account for the fact that while reacting to lion and moving the mouse to cast the stormhammer, sven is still moving, so the distance lion has to walk is not 100+225 with the lens, it is basically half of that distance, meaning that the longer sven reacts, the more he "helps" lion to hex first by walking towards him
Always used camera grip on Mouse3 hotkey...works incredibly well! You just have absolute camera control without worries on camera acceleration, having your mouse far away from the action and all that shit
@@sesshonuyasha go for it.. your map awareness, last hitting and micro-ing will drastically improve once you get a hang of it.. enabling auto right click also helps
i drive a large diesel truck in the real world and this lady on her phone in a prius blew threw a stop sign just yesterday which put her directly in position to be tboned by me who was going 40mph, it happened very fast but somehow i was able to stop merely inches before smashing into her. That was alot of momentum/weight to halt in a very short amount of time, your comment about gamer reaction time just gave me a sense of accomplishment and ever so slightly validated my life. She didn't even know it happened but everyone else around the intersection did. Thanks for the content as always Jenkins!
I think his timer must be slightly stopping on 135 and 193 or something like that. I got 193 at first and was super suprised when the time he put on the screen was also 193, and there's another guy above me that also got 193. then I tested it two more times and both times I got exactly 135 which needless to say is really unlikely for one person to do but now I see 4 other people that also got the same exact time. some shenanigans are going on
Camera grip is the best option imo. You never have to take your hand off the ability/item keys and never position your mouse far from the action. What I need to use it however is a mouse with a thumb button so it won't affect your ability to use left or right click. I could never use middle mouse, way too awkward a position.
The one thing I don't like about camera grip is that you have to have a hotkey for it that is on the keyboard. I would rather make my center mouse button into the camera grip then I could use it easily, but using a hotkey and mouse to do one thing feels dumb and ineffective but I'm no pro..
@@Mawragfpv i still think using a side mouse button is better. if u use the scroll button youll have to lift up either your index or middle finger, thus limiting yout ability to use left or right click
I move my camera with WASD , my hotkeys for items are QER-SPACE while spells are 123-TAB and 4 ... I'm in advantage always , I don't get mixed with the camera and I can see always to what's happening
If you have a key bound to select your hero too, you can also hold that key to lock onto your hero and have the camera automatically move and follow you. This is excellent at resetting your camera onto your hero, or blocking creeps, and in your Sven example it'd likely result in no delay.
It's good for recentering your hero but it's awful for camera movement. Your camera should be where you're going, not where you are. Playing centered on your hero essentially only uses half your screen.
Carl is right. But i have to say I use this when i block creeps. I double click my hero portrait and then i just need to block instead of moving my camera. And since camera is moving at consitent rate im less likely to f*ck up the block. I first saw it in a pro match few years ago. And ever since my block changed. In mid i sometimes block to the point where enemy creeps are almost behind my tower. (Which is bad but yknow)
@@oyuyuy Well, yeah, I'm not suggesting you play the game with your camera locked onto your hero. That'd be a disaster. However, it's a valuable camera moving asset to combine with other methods. You know, the entire point of Jenkins' video?
Possible reaction times you could end up with in this test: 0.072-God gaming chair 0.135 0.193-most common 0.262- 2nd most common 0.326 -herald Its because these are the only 5 frames present which are in reaction spectrum if you're watching at 30fps. The others are either too early or too late 0.326+58n n=1,2
Camera grip on mouse3 is the way to go. I basically constantly move the camera in small quick movements, maybe 300-500 units apart. Instead of large broad mouse movements. This way my mouse is always centered around the action.
I realized jenkins actually forgot to put one of his thought in the explaining process and then he realizes that he forgot so then he added the thought in the shape of "black shirt new background guy" so that it seems like articulating the video. Great job jenkens nice articulation :).
Right mouse scrolling is the one thing Dota really needs in turns of camera panning as it doesn't move your cursor, only the screen. It is a button your already pressing and it has varying speed depending on how much you move your mouse
You forgot that player grinding this forest might drink a cup of warm tea, miss hotkey, not notice walking directly into him, be interrupted by sudden visit
Personally, I move my camera ONLY with keys. I use ESDF (Cause Im weird and dont use WASD in games) and just order my abilities around those keys. W for ability 1, R for 2, T for 3, and G for ult. C and V are for su abilities, like stolen Rubic spells or Phoenix' move during Sunray abilities. A is for cancle attack, Y (or Z on englis keyboards) is for voice chat, and Q is for taunt (cause i dont have anything better left xD) Items are 1-6 which is a bit meh. But works. Oh, and Z (Y on english keyboards) is for the neutral item. Fibally, H is to focus camera back on my hero. This allows me to use my mouse freely for spells, moving my hero, clicking other heros, hovering over effects, place wards, buy items, or click on the minimap to check on places, before pressing H to bring my camera back on my Hero. My mouse is nearly always around the center of tge screen,thus giving me tge shortests distance to and position on the screen. And it works wonders. I myself am terrible at dota, and have bellow gamer average reaction speed (got 235 on jenkin's stop the video test). But having my mouse free to be used as a mouse, not to move the camera made me play much better. And personally, it just feels less hecktic mouse movement wise.
for 4 of my 5 year dota 2 career i also played with arrow keys...i never found it bad and honestly even moving your hand from arrow key to WASD etc. isnt that bad´...surely it matters in higher brackets but i felt it was pretty good for me....but when u start spamming invo it gets hard :D
You can solve the hotkey problem with WASD cam by having a mouse with buttons bound to some items/abilities. Also, many camera grip users use the middle mouse or another mouse button for that function so they can still do camera movement with one hand.
it's been a struggle to make my mouse buttons useful. If i get a mouse with two many buttons, i feel like I'm always bumping buttons and doing things accidentally. I've finally found a mouse where I can do 3-5 extra things without constantly doing things accidentally, but it took, like two dozen mouses. What I want... is a foot pedal. That would be dope.
I've been using WASD since the very beginning days of dota2 because during the beta (dota2 still beta lel) gave you 3 types of control types to bind by default and wasd was an option. Its great to finally see higher level players admitting its superior at the cost of some convenient hotkeys.
Spells on numbers, WASD to move the camera, keys from Z to N for items, seems messy at first but there are combos you can't hit with anything else, and the camera movement you can achieve with this is great
Even though edge pan is the easiest way, please don’t scratch balls while playing. It’ll increase your reaction time drastically (assuming you smoothly take hand out of the pants/best case scenario) 🤘🏻
@custom PC indy Just for the sake of sharing in case people think they have weird hotkeys. Same keys for abilities but I use Z-N for items, V for neutral. U for tele. Same way for so, so long. T for select hero unit, Y for all other units, R for all units. Mouse 3 for quickbuy and CAPS for force attack move.
I'm a league player, so I'm super used to being able to hold spacebar to lock my screen while it's being held down. That being said, I NEEDED this when I started playing dota. I've got it to where I can double tap then hold spacebar in order to do it. So I edgepan when I generally know where people are and if I expect someone to be in the area or KNOW that someone is in the area I just hold spacebar while having my mouse near the middle of the screen without having to be a weird wasd camera mover.
My Camera settings have been set to WSAD for the entire existence of DOTA 2 since those were the default settings it had when I first downloaded it on launch. I had no idea other people used QWE for their skills for almost 2 years of playing.
set your space bar to center on hero, then hold it down to track ur hero. its good not only for centering camera but also for things like holding creep waves and responding to threats.
i know right? as if using all 5 fingers at once was any difficult for us gamers. I always find it akward watching ppl who move their camera with mouse and as jenkins demonstrated here you really waste a lot of time by doing that and as old RTS player moving your camera with mouse is just heresy
I mean, thats how I figured out how to play the game, coming from MMO's I like my skills on numbers and wasd moves the camera, other hotkeys adjusted for comfort.
I use WASD movement since the Dota 1 days since it was most comfortable to me... I must admit with all the added items and more skills being involved now, it's becoming a bit harder to have enough hotkeys readily and easily available for easy use
I think having one of those mmo mouses with a shitton of buttons on it could help. There is a high level starcraft player who does it like that. Maybe onecould bind the spells on the mouse and just use the keyboard for items (or the other way round, depending what's more comfortabe)
@@tschabow5608 Yeah or even an fps mouse with a couple extra. Bind mouse scroll and side tilt and use alt modifiers, then you just edge pan when you're spamming abilities and with a little learning you've got the best of both
Adjust the camera speed in the options to a lower value and you will never have to move away from edge pan. Or maybe it's just me after so many years of experience that I have a high previcision with it.
No you are right it's miles ahead of wasd movement. Keeps your fingers free to cast spells so you never make a mistake. Thay guy using wasd in the final games fucked up alot with miss clicks and thats cause his hand was using wasd to move. Casting spells and moving the camera on the same hand isnt the greatest lol. This video is good but it's also very noobs, doesnt apply to pro gamers and most pros already have there camera moved ahead to the area they are walking so pretty much makes this guys whole video 100 percent pointless. All that 500 and 900 ms shit has nothing to do with camera control if you can already see the area.
There is a feature in dota that inverts camera movement when the middle mouse button is pressed, so you press it, drag you mouse towards the target and the camera follows it. Also you can fine tune it wile last hitting creeps or zap it forward if you need to
I've been using WASD as my camera controls for years. It just feels natural. Q is my first E is my second R for third, 3 and 4 for extra 4th and 5th and T for my Ultimate. F for force attack for denies and spacebar for force stop. ZXCVBN for my items and 1 and 2 for my TP and neutral item respectively.
I’ve always used WASD to move my camera since 2014 when I started playing. I come from a WoW background so I have my abilities on my mouse, and items set to keys around WASD.
This was pretty normal back in dota 1 specially when there was still no hotkeys so most of the time we use the numpad to use items in the inventory making it more convenient to use arrow keys since they are just very near each other.
i edge pan, but there is a secret option i also use that most people dont talk about. that being: holding down the hero select button, in this case space, so the camera auto follows hero.
@@genesises i know, for me its a hold over from league as well, but personally I think its only truly bad if you have it on constantly. its honestly the best camera control for creep blocking.
Hahaha, damn, ever since I started playing Dota in 2017, I've always been using WASD as camera, and Q23E as spell hotkeys... I guess everyone has their own hotkeys and in the long run it doesn't matter coz everything becomes muscle memory at that point
I would normally laugh if anyone tries this but if there are people out there besides pros who does this for years then you earn my fucking respects and awe for actually doing it
I actually play with camera control bound to wsad. I completely forgot edge pan even existed. To expand, unit controls are 1-0, skills are q,e,r, and f, center camera is space, attack is tab, and items are z,x,c,v,g,b.
Proper use of edge pan relies on moving the camera in advance, so you don't have to deal with enemies appearing out of nowhere. In this scenario, camera should be on the highground way before hero actually reaches it. And the mouse cursor should be at the area where enemies are likely to be positioned, so that you can react as quickly as possible should an enemy hero be found. Also, I'm used to hitting Space frequently to return camera back to the hero. It allows me to edge pan further away from hero if needed and not worry that I'll lose too much time should I get attacked or smth.
I've been using this back then (DotA 1). Some of my friends are laughing when seeing me use the arrow keys to move through the map. They even teach me to use the mouse instead but I'm already accustomed to the arrow keys.
I use WASD and TAB/QERFBCZ, space bar and 2 mouse buttons for abilities, tilda + 12345 for items. There are still many buttons around so you don't really miss out on buttons though your left hand has to do more stuff which may or may not be comfortable for you. Like you said use whatever the hell you re comfortable with :)
About years ago, i've started using WASD for camera movement... And i keep using it despite whatever i eared about it... So THANK a LOT for this video. Now i have something to share to explain my point of view !! :D
When I started playing dota in 2013, for some reason I had my camera pan on W,A,S,D and skills Q,E,R,T,F on default unless I accidentally changed it before the first game. It works great.
Just move your camera by pressing mousewheel, you will always have your coursor near your hero, where most thing will be happening, and where you will need your coursor most. One of best things you can learn.
If you have a keyboard that can be remapped you can change caps lock to be a function key that turns WASD into the arrow keys, allowing you to do this without moving your hand.
I've been using wasd for my camera since the time I started playing Dota in 2013. Years of abuse and mockery, and finally now someone understands me. Nice vid, bro.
I use WASD to move my camera because I was a FPS player and my brain find the movement of QWER pretty odd, for me it's just feels weird not having my pinky free. Yeah, I struggled a lot with micro heroes like Meepo, Lycan, BM and even builds with various active items, but since I picked up a mouse with extra two buttoms those problems were almost gone. Now my set up is 1, 2, 3, Q and R for skills; Z, X, C, V, B and mouse 4 for items; mouse 3 for tp and mouse 5 for neutral item. THANK YOU FOR THE VIDEO EXPLAINING THE SUPEORITY OF WASD MOVEMENT
I just had the craziest idea: a Keyboard-Mouse. Basically a mouse for your left hand that lets you control panning by sliding it around (or maybe having your hand rest on a device similar to a trackpad) while also having enough keys/buttons for spells, items and whatnot. Since that doesn't really exist (yet), did anyone ever try playing Dota with a Joystick for the left hand? There are some with enough buttons to accommodate most actions, even relatively cheap ones like the T16000M. Think about it: Use the stick for panning, then the little knob for 4 actions and then there's still 4 buttons left on the stick (trigger, and three buttons on top). That's 8 actions + panning without ever taking your hand off the stick. Then you add whatever you have on your mouse and 12 more buttons at the base of the joystick and you have more than enough for literally anything Dota can throw at you.
I got 135ms. But that was because he told me what was coming lol in real game and real life, it wouldn't be this fast because the anticipation wouldn't be this on point xD thats why gaming can be stressful sometimes, as you have to anticipate a lot of things to have faster reaction speed when it counts and this arrow keys camera movement is just taking this another step. it helps you anticipate what's coming faster than normal. great vid
6:25 As a pianist... that's me on a daily basis. Odd to see people not finding it ok, but then again I'm a gamer AND a musician, no one should be that much of a disappointment to their parents
even the jenkins test was limited by the factor that your screen, your mouse/keyboard delay, the youtube's delay/internet theres a bunch of factors to take in
Ive used WASD camera since 2013 with my abilities on QERF (TG for heroes with more abilities). My item slots are 123 and ZXC. I find that using this I don't have any problems with micro.
With grip ou don't need to go to the edge of the screen, you can do it where your hero is, and do it multiple times in small increments to continue moving your camera while having your mouse near your hero and ready.
The pausing demonstration worked even better than planned because it stuttered, then played slowly, then paused at .500. It's visualizing the ping and hardware lag on top of reaction time (also how dog shit my work laptop is)
I've been using WASD camera since I started playing in 2012, even in RTS games (not good, I just really hate edge pan). I've never had an issue with finger placement relating to WASD use in dota though. If anyone's curious here are my hotkeys: Stop - space, attack - mouse 4 Abilities - q, e, r, f, x, z (ult) I have per-hero quickcast binds set for every hero. Generally any ability I don't have to know the exact radius for is on quickcast. All single target/non AoE spells are on quickcast, I rarely misclick them due to the mouse freedom of using WASD, and it allows for very fast button pressing. Items - 1, 2, 3, 4, c, v (4 and c are quickcast) 3 extra mouse buttons for control groups, mainly for playing lone druid. F1 - hero, F2 - all units, F3 - all other units, F4 - courier, G - voice chat, t, y - chat wheels, h - hero chat wheel, b - taunt, m - move If I could go back to the start and change anything I'd use ESDF instead of WASD. It's interesting how everyone has completely different binds but it's whatever works for you.
I always used WASD as camera keys. I simplya cannot fathom playing with dragging the camera with the cursor, how is that possible even. This way my cursor is either at the center of the screen or at the target where i want to cast. And if you wonder how i set my other keys to compensate for the missing WASD keys, here it is: First spell Q, Second spell: The button 2 above W, thirsd spell: E, 4th spell: R, 5th spell: F, ult: spacebar.
Had to re-upload because my render messed up the reaction time test in the video. If you wanna be a homie, leave the video in a tab playing with no sound (for the algorithm). Love you guys.
Will rewatch the entire video for you, King 👑
Great video man, keep it up
@@rebe_E44 ur a legend dude.
@@owenturner5629 ty brother, gaben bless u
On my phone and my reaction time kept getting messed up... 😭
All I'm saying is that having a joystick on the floor and controlling camera with your feet is the next TI winning play
LOL. That would be amazing.
Damn, i am lol my ass out! Thats something that could really happen
Genius
this is actually very doable
Woke playstyle
"Pause the video when the box turn green. Ready?"
Me: ready!
UA-cam: plays adds.
Laughs in UA-cam Premium.
laughs in luna adblocker for ios
LMAO
Why you havent installed UA-cam Vanced yet is above my mind
Hey guys please suggest me an ad blocker for android.
Massive_pipi.
Pog so many likes.
I have worked with 3d modeling software for many years, so I have defaulted to using camera grip with the side button of my mouse as the grip hotkey. It has worked amazingly well for the last 5+ years across many programs. Very intuitive and feels like I'm actually grabbing the screen and moving it around.
Yeah, I do this too. That way I can keep the mouse on the part of the screen where I anticipate needing it next.
2:29 oy naaaah I paused the video when the box hit green at that exact same time 0.193. I got so scared when he put the number, I was like how tf did he know. Bro I swear Jenkins is watching me.......
i freaked out when jenkins displayed 0.193, the exact reaction time that I got on his test.
BRO SAMEE
193 gang here
I tried it 3 times and all of them were 193, so I assume it doesnt sum up the way we think it does, it probably does like, 90 193 330.. or something like that, and so if your reaction time is between 193 and 330 he will be making his point on the video
SAME LMAOOO I EVEN HAD TO REWIND 20 SECONDS AND TRY IT AGAIN 😂
was bout to comment this. Kinda spooky dude. But that actually makes sense cause its a video at 60fps and 193 is the spot where alot of people would end up cause theres multiple frames and is around avg.
Me, a colorblind gamer: Hm, I think he's trying to jebait me.
Jenkins: ~200 ms
Me still waiting for the box to change: I see.
Your red-green blindness must be way worse than mine then :D
@@Valvex_ Borderline color deficient
@@Fiyazai I never thought I would laugh and feel bad for color blinded people until today.
@@okkydirgantaraohara126 Don't feel bad dude, the majority of us don't know any different. It's not like we're missing out 🤣
@@Fiyazai Did you ever try those glasses that let you differentiate between different colors, just wondering
3:26 "lets assume this is a support sven"
my lobbies are about to get ruined
🤣🤣🤣
"Support or Techies" I like having that name sometimes, and no matter what hero picked, I already stablish im support.
Lmao yesterday, someone on my enemy team was a support sven... xd.
I was laughing so hard when i saw:
Tranquil boots
Glimmer cape.
Solar crest etc.
Lmao please no, I ran into a dagon sniper the other day
@@GearDiego23 "Support or Techies"? Why not "Support Techies"?
One thing that wasn't mention with camera grip is you can hold the button to center your hero on the screen and then use camera grip to offset that hero position on the screen. If you're walking through the jungle you can use this technique to look ahead and then have your cursor _completely_ free to quickcast or whatever you need to do.
TFW: You're a WASD player.
WASD camera, QERF/TG abilities, 123zxc items
I am weird.
you're not alone buddy, except my layout is 12345 spells, q ult and the rest of buttons around WASD is for items and microcontrol
Wasd camera, 1-0 abilities and zxcvbn items.
That is my setup but instead of T I use alt E and T is for teleport.
Same. Yet I'm Herald trash.
Honestly, switching to wasd has been something I was considering. After playing recent total war games which use qweasd for camera (q and e for rotation) and having a full mmo mouse, Switching to wasd camera and then using numbers for abilities might be really good for me.
"When this box changes from red to green, pause the video" Me watching on 1.5x speed and forgetting: "Why the fuck is my reaction time so slow, have I been slow my whole life? How have I never realised this." Then I realise I'm just slow in a different way.
This made me literally lol
im watching x2 speed lol
WASD camera mover here since I started playing in 2013. Thank you Jenky for finally validating me. All these years of torment from my friends who spectated my games are finally put behind me and I can die happy. I may not be able to micro, and I may not be able to buy more than 3 active items when I play Invoker, but I can now rest easy in the knowledge that WASD camera movement is valid.
WASD player here (been playing since I started to play dota in early 2013):
For active items I use Z ; X ; C ; alt+Z ; alt+X ; alt+C (I usually put single cast or selfcast abilities in alt+ buttons so I don't accidentally activate BKB for example)
For micro I use 1 (Select-Focus on hero); 2 for ALL units BESIDES the hero; 3 for ALL units; 4 for specific unit, 5 to select courier
For abilities I use:
Q ; E ; R ; F (ult); T (tp); alt+R for 5th ability; and >< for 6th ability (mine is LA keyboard)
The Alt+R is because there's no other autocast abilities (except for Bloodlust and Liquid FIre) that requires autocast on R otherwise you can't autocast Frost Arrows for example, and >< is next to shift.
Some WASD people have moved to ESDF so you can use more buttons in the left side of your movement, but I'm so used to put my left hand naturally on WASD.
Other bindings are:
V for team chat (kind of global tbh); B for voice chat; Y for Wheel, Space for denies; G for stop.
Wasd camera mover here I have the weird razer controller and press buttons with my feet to micro and press items.
WASD player since 2011 here, and I just use a Razer Naga with the 12 buttons on the side for items, shop, and courier control.
I use 1234rf for spells which let's me use q for select hero, e for select all units except hero and c for select all units, which I can use to mirco well enough. Not Puppey level Chen micro, but I get along just fine with Visage, Naga, NP, etc.
@@WillUleimi i do exactly the same lol.
same here 2014
Thank you Jenkins for making a stand for all of us WASD players! I have been playing left hand camera (WASD) and items (123456) right hand mouse abilities (6 buttons on side of mouse). People say you’ll never get to high mmr! I’ll prove them wrong! I love this video!
based i am identical
People were always weirded out by my WASD controls too but I managed to get to 5100 MMR before quitting in 2019 lmao
One thing not mentioned is when using WASD for camera you can also use the mouse to move the screen to avoid weird hand positions
You forgot to account for the fact that while reacting to lion and moving the mouse to cast the stormhammer, sven is still moving, so the distance lion has to walk is not 100+225 with the lens, it is basically half of that distance, meaning that the longer sven reacts, the more he "helps" lion to hex first by walking towards him
This cancels out because lion is walking too in real life.
Always used camera grip on Mouse3 hotkey...works incredibly well! You just have absolute camera control without worries on camera acceleration, having your mouse far away from the action and all that shit
i've broken 3 razer mice already because of this lmao but it's the only way for me.. camera grip is just better. hero is always center
awesome i shall get an improved mouse for this nice suggestion
Instead i using the hotkey G for grip
@@sesshonuyasha go for it.. your map awareness, last hitting and micro-ing will drastically improve once you get a hang of it.. enabling auto right click also helps
this in combination with increasing edge scrolling speed is all you should need!
"Let's assume this is a support Sven" Lets not.
it's normal now
i drive a large diesel truck in the real world and this lady on her phone in a prius blew threw a stop sign just yesterday which put her directly in position to be tboned by me who was going 40mph, it happened very fast but somehow i was able to stop merely inches before smashing into her. That was alot of momentum/weight to halt in a very short amount of time, your comment about gamer reaction time just gave me a sense of accomplishment and ever so slightly validated my life. She didn't even know it happened but everyone else around the intersection did. Thanks for the content as always Jenkins!
I had exactly 0.193 seconds on the reaction test. So, that was cool when it was used as an example. Gamer god energy.
same, but went down 135 2nd time when I was actually concentrated 😄
Me too)
@@kurt120032002 dude I did it 2 times and had those exact numbers too, lol
I actually thought it was coded to show the time when you paused.
@@kurt120032002 why the hell did i get the exact same numbers as well???????
Sick video Jenkins. WASD gamers represent, been using it for years.
my friends bully me for using WASD, but they just dont know ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
WASD!!
Been WASD since 2014
@@phy3451 Same
Also bind the alt key to the spacebar. It's way more comfortable with a WASD layout.
Jenkins just put a reaction time test in his video, I had to stop working just to do it. 135.
Hey wait a minute
woah I got that too
I'm an old support. I got 193
got the same number lol
I think his timer must be slightly stopping on 135 and 193 or something like that. I got 193 at first and was super suprised when the time he put on the screen was also 193, and there's another guy above me that also got 193. then I tested it two more times and both times I got exactly 135 which needless to say is really unlikely for one person to do but now I see 4 other people that also got the same exact time.
some shenanigans are going on
Camera grip is the best option imo. You never have to take your hand off the ability/item keys and never position your mouse far from the action.
What I need to use it however is a mouse with a thumb button so it won't affect your ability to use left or right click. I could never use middle mouse, way too awkward a position.
The one thing I don't like about camera grip is that you have to have a hotkey for it that is on the keyboard. I would rather make my center mouse button into the camera grip then I could use it easily, but using a hotkey and mouse to do one thing feels dumb and ineffective but I'm no pro..
I've always used middle mouse button for camera grip, was weird at first but practice makes perfect. It's second nature to me now
@@JayBird84 I use the middle mouse button for camera grip
@@Mawragfpv i still think using a side mouse button is better. if u use the scroll button youll have to lift up either your index or middle finger, thus limiting yout ability to use left or right click
@@Mawragfpv Yeah same, I can't remember when i started doing it, I think it was around HoN or Dota 1 days but I always did it with middle mouse
long time lurker. today mimic/gestics arounf 1:10 made me subscribe finally.
I move my camera with WASD , my hotkeys for items are QER-SPACE while spells are 123-TAB and 4 ... I'm in advantage always , I don't get mixed with the camera and I can see always to what's happening
If you have a key bound to select your hero too, you can also hold that key to lock onto your hero and have the camera automatically move and follow you. This is excellent at resetting your camera onto your hero, or blocking creeps, and in your Sven example it'd likely result in no delay.
It's good for recentering your hero but it's awful for camera movement.
Your camera should be where you're going, not where you are. Playing centered on your hero essentially only uses half your screen.
Carl is right. But i have to say I use this when i block creeps.
I double click my hero portrait and then i just need to block instead of moving my camera.
And since camera is moving at consitent rate im less likely to f*ck up the block.
I first saw it in a pro match few years ago.
And ever since my block changed.
In mid i sometimes block to the point where enemy creeps are almost behind my tower. (Which is bad but yknow)
@@oyuyuy Well, yeah, I'm not suggesting you play the game with your camera locked onto your hero. That'd be a disaster. However, it's a valuable camera moving asset to combine with other methods. You know, the entire point of Jenkins' video?
f1 is the hero select key for, i just use that to recenter or find my hero when i do a move order far away, easiest way to do it imo
I have that, it's mostly good for blocking and checking the map. Never tried it for walking up hills for the reaction time, but I might.
Possible reaction times you could end up with in this test:
0.072-God gaming chair
0.135
0.193-most common
0.262- 2nd most common
0.326 -herald
Its because these are the only 5 frames present which are in reaction spectrum if you're watching at 30fps. The others are either too early or too late 0.326+58n
n=1,2
Camera grip on mouse3 is the way to go. I basically constantly move the camera in small quick movements, maybe 300-500 units apart. Instead of large broad mouse movements. This way my mouse is always centered around the action.
I realized jenkins actually forgot to put one of his thought in the explaining process and then he realizes that he forgot so then he added the thought in the shape of "black shirt new background guy" so that it seems like articulating the video. Great job jenkens nice articulation :).
Right mouse scrolling is the one thing Dota really needs in turns of camera panning as it doesn't move your cursor, only the screen. It is a button your already pressing and it has varying speed depending on how much you move your mouse
Thank you for teaching me just how god awful my reaction speed is.
thank you for this tip jankins! I'm now using wasd as camera movement hotkey while the skills are using arrow keys
Pu$$y! I use monitor keys for the skills xD
paused it on 0.000 on accident my god its a sign to pick more ogre my luck is out of control
That was skill all right. Pure skill!
You forgot that player grinding this forest might drink a cup of warm tea, miss hotkey, not notice walking directly into him, be interrupted by sudden visit
I got EXACTLY the 0.193 reaction time and i freaked out when the same number was used for the example lmao
Ahh the Dota Alchemy flashbacks, how time flies. And here we are till supporting our boy in Jenkins.
This guy is on another level.
You’re like the scientist of dota.
Personally, I move my camera ONLY with keys.
I use ESDF (Cause Im weird and dont use WASD in games) and just order my abilities around those keys.
W for ability 1, R for 2, T for 3, and G for ult. C and V are for su abilities, like stolen Rubic spells or Phoenix' move during Sunray abilities.
A is for cancle attack, Y (or Z on englis keyboards) is for voice chat, and Q is for taunt (cause i dont have anything better left xD)
Items are 1-6 which is a bit meh. But works. Oh, and Z (Y on english keyboards) is for the neutral item.
Fibally, H is to focus camera back on my hero.
This allows me to use my mouse freely for spells, moving my hero, clicking other heros, hovering over effects, place wards, buy items, or click on the minimap to check on places, before pressing H to bring my camera back on my Hero.
My mouse is nearly always around the center of tge screen,thus giving me tge shortests distance to and position on the screen.
And it works wonders.
I myself am terrible at dota, and have bellow gamer average reaction speed (got 235 on jenkin's stop the video test).
But having my mouse free to be used as a mouse, not to move the camera made me play much better.
And personally, it just feels less hecktic mouse movement wise.
for 4 of my 5 year dota 2 career i also played with arrow keys...i never found it bad and honestly even moving your hand from arrow key to WASD etc. isnt that bad´...surely it matters in higher brackets but i felt it was pretty good for me....but when u start spamming invo it gets hard :D
"pause the video"
My UA-cam: hey look someone posted new video
Impressive production value. Very well done :)
Me as a crusader intellectual - "uses minimap to move camera"
You can solve the hotkey problem with WASD cam by having a mouse with buttons bound to some items/abilities. Also, many camera grip users use the middle mouse or another mouse button for that function so they can still do camera movement with one hand.
it's been a struggle to make my mouse buttons useful. If i get a mouse with two many buttons, i feel like I'm always bumping buttons and doing things accidentally.
I've finally found a mouse where I can do 3-5 extra things without constantly doing things accidentally, but it took, like two dozen mouses.
What I want... is a foot pedal. That would be dope.
I've been using WASD since the very beginning days of dota2 because during the beta (dota2 still beta lel) gave you 3 types of control types to bind by default and wasd was an option. Its great to finally see higher level players admitting its superior at the cost of some convenient hotkeys.
I downloaded the gsme on a friend's computer the other day. My poor brain was messed up with my keys not being wasd
me too use WASD
camera grip & edge pan combo sounds like the most sane solution
When I'm bored, I watch this kind of explanation to fall asleep.
Spells on numbers, WASD to move the camera, keys from Z to N for items, seems messy at first but there are combos you can't hit with anything else, and the camera movement you can achieve with this is great
holy shit you just described exactly how my keys are mapped
and i can't play it any other way
It used to be from Z to N my items, then i mapped to ZXC 123, while the spells are QERTYF
Gotta add that i'm left handed so my right pinkie can't quite reach N without being unnatural, it does reach, but still not really comfortable
I strongly suggest adding 1 Item Slot to mouse 4 or 5 for blink and Rod of atos Slot and Q or E for boots Slot for Quick easy spam
i use camera grip
Even though edge pan is the easiest way, please don’t scratch balls while playing. It’ll increase your reaction time drastically (assuming you smoothly take hand out of the pants/best case scenario) 🤘🏻
tf
Thought I was weird for using WASD, 😅 i played Invoker for years with this and had no issues at all with 1 2 3 4 5 6 and 5 item slot bindings
the same
I thought i was the only one!
This guy fucksssssss. Glorious WASD gang.
@custom PC indy Just for the sake of sharing in case people think they have weird hotkeys. Same keys for abilities but I use Z-N for items, V for neutral. U for tele. Same way for so, so long. T for select hero unit, Y for all other units, R for all units. Mouse 3 for quickbuy and CAPS for force attack move.
Problem with binding numbers is you cant control group
I'm a league player, so I'm super used to being able to hold spacebar to lock my screen while it's being held down. That being said, I NEEDED this when I started playing dota. I've got it to where I can double tap then hold spacebar in order to do it. So I edgepan when I generally know where people are and if I expect someone to be in the area or KNOW that someone is in the area I just hold spacebar while having my mouse near the middle of the screen without having to be a weird wasd camera mover.
My Camera settings have been set to WSAD for the entire existence of DOTA 2 since those were the default settings it had when I first downloaded it on launch. I had no idea other people used QWE for their skills for almost 2 years of playing.
You're putting out really great content man to all of us dota players we respect that.
keep it up!
How about a joystick you control with your feet? These things are totally unused at the moment!
The master camera option is camera grip with the middle mouse wheel press as the hotkey, by far the best option
I didn't know there was any other way
set your space bar to center on hero, then hold it down to track ur hero. its good not only for centering camera but also for things like holding creep waves and responding to threats.
meanwhile i have chamion selection on spacebar and when i hold it my camera follows my hero
Hot Damn, I've always used WASD ever since I started DOTA. Feels Good to see other people use these weird camera tricks.
I played total war before playing dota, so wasd feels so much more natural to me
Liar, there is no WASD on the original DOTA
Imagine not using WASD for camera controls.
J*rma
i know right? as if using all 5 fingers at once was any difficult for us gamers. I always find it akward watching ppl who move their camera with mouse and as jenkins demonstrated here you really waste a lot of time by doing that and as old RTS player moving your camera with mouse is just heresy
Middle mouse drag?
I agree. Been using wasd for 8 years
I mean, thats how I figured out how to play the game, coming from MMO's I like my skills on numbers and wasd moves the camera, other hotkeys adjusted for comfort.
I use WASD movement since the Dota 1 days since it was most comfortable to me... I must admit with all the added items and more skills being involved now, it's becoming a bit harder to have enough hotkeys readily and easily available for easy use
I think having one of those mmo mouses with a shitton of buttons on it could help. There is a high level starcraft player who does it like that. Maybe onecould bind the spells on the mouse and just use the keyboard for items (or the other way round, depending what's more comfortabe)
@@tschabow5608 Yeah or even an fps mouse with a couple extra. Bind mouse scroll and side tilt and use alt modifiers, then you just edge pan when you're spamming abilities and with a little learning you've got the best of both
Adjust the camera speed in the options to a lower value and you will never have to move away from edge pan. Or maybe it's just me after so many years of experience that I have a high previcision with it.
No you are right it's miles ahead of wasd movement. Keeps your fingers free to cast spells so you never make a mistake. Thay guy using wasd in the final games fucked up alot with miss clicks and thats cause his hand was using wasd to move. Casting spells and moving the camera on the same hand isnt the greatest lol. This video is good but it's also very noobs, doesnt apply to pro gamers and most pros already have there camera moved ahead to the area they are walking so pretty much makes this guys whole video 100 percent pointless. All that 500 and 900 ms shit has nothing to do with camera control if you can already see the area.
There is a feature in dota that inverts camera movement when the middle mouse button is pressed, so you press it, drag you mouse towards the target and the camera follows it. Also you can fine tune it wile last hitting creeps or zap it forward if you need to
Its disorienting at first, but you will get used to it after a few games
I've been using WASD as my camera controls for years. It just feels natural. Q is my first E is my second R for third, 3 and 4 for extra 4th and 5th and T for my Ultimate. F for force attack for denies and spacebar for force stop. ZXCVBN for my items and 1 and 2 for my TP and neutral item respectively.
I’ve always used WASD to move my camera since 2014 when I started playing. I come from a WoW background so I have my abilities on my mouse, and items set to keys around WASD.
i also play dota like that
although i am an FPS gamer so i always assumed thats why i use WASD
I’ve been playing this way for years. but i use wasd to control the camera, and q, e, r, f for abilities
sounds good bro
ok... so I stopped my video at exactly 0.193 sec for when the green square came up, Jenkins you need to stop hacking my mind man
This was pretty normal back in dota 1 specially when there was still no hotkeys so most of the time we use the numpad to use items in the inventory making it more convenient to use arrow keys since they are just very near each other.
i edge pan, but there is a secret option i also use that most people dont talk about. that being: holding down the hero select button, in this case space, so the camera auto follows hero.
most people don't talk about it because that's how extreme noobs play in league of legends :(
it's a very useful hotkey though for auto centering!
@@genesises i know, for me its a hold over from league as well, but personally I think its only truly bad if you have it on constantly. its honestly the best camera control for creep blocking.
@@auto1nfanticid3 agreed!
Hahaha, damn, ever since I started playing Dota in 2017, I've always been using WASD as camera, and Q23E as spell hotkeys... I guess everyone has their own hotkeys and in the long run it doesn't matter coz everything becomes muscle memory at that point
i use legacy keys so its kinda weird for me to use wasd as camera movement
WASD Dota players rise up
Rise up
I thought i was the only one
GANG
I would normally laugh if anyone tries this but if there are people out there besides pros who does this for years then you earn my fucking respects and awe for actually doing it
I actually play with camera control bound to wsad. I completely forgot edge pan even existed.
To expand, unit controls are 1-0, skills are q,e,r, and f, center camera is space, attack is tab, and items are z,x,c,v,g,b.
I play osu, I can edge pan all the way to the bottom and still “out-target” my opponent in such scenarios. Ezpz.
Proper use of edge pan relies on moving the camera in advance, so you don't have to deal with enemies appearing out of nowhere. In this scenario, camera should be on the highground way before hero actually reaches it. And the mouse cursor should be at the area where enemies are likely to be positioned, so that you can react as quickly as possible should an enemy hero be found.
Also, I'm used to hitting Space frequently to return camera back to the hero. It allows me to edge pan further away from hero if needed and not worry that I'll lose too much time should I get attacked or smth.
Didn't ask,dont care
shaking my thanos head
I've been using this back then (DotA 1). Some of my friends are laughing when seeing me use the arrow keys to move through the map. They even teach me to use the mouse instead but I'm already accustomed to the arrow keys.
Me with a small keyboard that utilizes function keys so my WASD and arrow keys are binded using the same keys: "I have no such weakness."
you can still hold hotkey which center your camera to hero and then your screeen will be moving with your hero.
I use WASD and TAB/QERFBCZ, space bar and 2 mouse buttons for abilities, tilda + 12345 for items. There are still many buttons around so you don't really miss out on buttons though your left hand has to do more stuff which may or may not be comfortable for you. Like you said use whatever the hell you re comfortable with :)
when you showed my number on reaction time it looked like a magic trick
There s an option which u choose a key to select ur hero and u can hold that key down and the camera moves as ur hero does.
About years ago, i've started using WASD for camera movement... And i keep using it despite whatever i eared about it... So THANK a LOT for this video. Now i have something to share to explain my point of view !! :D
When I started playing dota in 2013, for some reason I had my camera pan on W,A,S,D and skills Q,E,R,T,F on default unless I accidentally changed it before the first game. It works great.
Gonna get a Dance Dance Revolution pad under my desk for camera movement
Just move your camera by pressing mousewheel, you will always have your coursor near your hero, where most thing will be happening, and where you will need your coursor most.
One of best things you can learn.
If you have a keyboard that can be remapped you can change caps lock to be a function key that turns WASD into the arrow keys, allowing you to do this without moving your hand.
So I've actually been using a variant of arrow keys since Dota 2's inception. WASD for camera movement, and QERFG for skills. It's served me well.
I've been using wasd for my camera since the time I started playing Dota in 2013.
Years of abuse and mockery, and finally now someone understands me. Nice vid, bro.
I use WASD to move my camera because I was a FPS player and my brain find the movement of QWER pretty odd, for me it's just feels weird not having my pinky free. Yeah, I struggled a lot with micro heroes like Meepo, Lycan, BM and even builds with various active items, but since I picked up a mouse with extra two buttoms those problems were almost gone. Now my set up is 1, 2, 3, Q and R for skills; Z, X, C, V, B and mouse 4 for items; mouse 3 for tp and mouse 5 for neutral item. THANK YOU FOR THE VIDEO EXPLAINING THE SUPEORITY OF WASD MOVEMENT
1:25 did Frog Sven just eat Lion's stun particles?
I just had the craziest idea: a Keyboard-Mouse. Basically a mouse for your left hand that lets you control panning by sliding it around (or maybe having your hand rest on a device similar to a trackpad) while also having enough keys/buttons for spells, items and whatnot.
Since that doesn't really exist (yet), did anyone ever try playing Dota with a Joystick for the left hand? There are some with enough buttons to accommodate most actions, even relatively cheap ones like the T16000M.
Think about it: Use the stick for panning, then the little knob for 4 actions and then there's still 4 buttons left on the stick (trigger, and three buttons on top). That's 8 actions + panning without ever taking your hand off the stick.
Then you add whatever you have on your mouse and 12 more buttons at the base of the joystick and you have more than enough for literally anything Dota can throw at you.
I got 135ms. But that was because he told me what was coming lol
in real game and real life, it wouldn't be this fast because the anticipation wouldn't be this on point xD
thats why gaming can be stressful sometimes, as you have to anticipate a lot of things to have faster reaction speed when it counts
and this arrow keys camera movement is just taking this another step. it helps you anticipate what's coming faster than normal.
great vid
6:25 As a pianist... that's me on a daily basis. Odd to see people not finding it ok, but then again I'm a gamer AND a musician, no one should be that much of a disappointment to their parents
even the jenkins test was limited by the factor that your screen, your mouse/keyboard delay, the youtube's delay/internet theres a bunch of factors to take in
Ive used WASD camera since 2013 with my abilities on QERF (TG for heroes with more abilities). My item slots are 123 and ZXC. I find that using this I don't have any problems with micro.
bruh i got the exact time jenkins showed on the screen after kek
Lol I had this video running at 2x speed and was like "damn does everyone else just have that much faster reaction time than me?"
I built my camera controls and key maps around the center of the keyboard lol
With grip ou don't need to go to the edge of the screen, you can do it where your hero is, and do it multiple times in small increments to continue moving your camera while having your mouse near your hero and ready.
The pausing demonstration worked even better than planned because it stuttered, then played slowly, then paused at .500. It's visualizing the ping and hardware lag on top of reaction time (also how dog shit my work laptop is)
I've been using WASD camera since I started playing in 2012, even in RTS games (not good, I just really hate edge pan).
I've never had an issue with finger placement relating to WASD use in dota though. If anyone's curious here are my hotkeys:
Stop - space, attack - mouse 4
Abilities - q, e, r, f, x, z (ult) I have per-hero quickcast binds set for every hero. Generally any ability I don't have to know the exact radius for is on quickcast. All single target/non AoE spells are on quickcast, I rarely misclick them due to the mouse freedom of using WASD, and it allows for very fast button pressing.
Items - 1, 2, 3, 4, c, v (4 and c are quickcast)
3 extra mouse buttons for control groups, mainly for playing lone druid.
F1 - hero, F2 - all units, F3 - all other units, F4 - courier, G - voice chat, t, y - chat wheels, h - hero chat wheel, b - taunt, m - move
If I could go back to the start and change anything I'd use ESDF instead of WASD.
It's interesting how everyone has completely different binds but it's whatever works for you.
I always used WASD as camera keys. I simplya cannot fathom playing with dragging the camera with the cursor, how is that possible even. This way my cursor is either at the center of the screen or at the target where i want to cast. And if you wonder how i set my other keys to compensate for the missing WASD keys, here it is: First spell Q, Second spell: The button 2 above W, thirsd spell: E, 4th spell: R, 5th spell: F, ult: spacebar.
God that was seriously crazy if matu presses the arrow keys