Sixteen Silly Church Cultural Traditions
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- Опубліковано 20 жов 2024
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Middle initials for all General Authorities? Celebrating secular holidays in church? Beardless Bishops? Connor shares his thoughts on these and other cultural traditions in our church.
The self deprecating before talks one got me🤣🤣🤣 whenever I speak in sacrament meeting I don’t even introduce myself becuase it’s unnecessary, they’ve already told the congregation who’s speaking multiple times lol🤦🏼♂️
Made some good points. Old man yelling at the clouds should have been the title 😅
On board with a lot of this but I think you’re forgetting that speakers and primary teachers are volunteers. Saying teachers are using candy to bribe kids to cope with them not being good teachers is probably true. But those teachers are not professionals so yeah, they probably need help and their goal is probably to get through that hour of class with as little chaos as possible
When at BYU years ago the first Sunday of each month was set aside for “thankimonies” and “I love my roommateimonies”
Music in Sacrament Meeting is not a performance. It is a time of worship. Applause is not appropriate. Other times it is totally appropriate.
I am okay with patriotism. I like that that patriotic songs are in the hymnbook.
And all the better I'd more countries' songs were in the hymnal... Why not specialized hymnal for the countries? The unifying collection of hymns could be included in their own editions.
I've heard several people discuss the possibility that gov't is the church of the devil. And their arguments have a lot of valid points.
As an Alaskan life-long member of the church (having gone to BYU-Hawaii and also spent some time living abroad with also several years in rural Idaho), I am glad to report that some of these were news to me! I haven't seen the Lion King Baby tradition in Alaska, and didn't know it was a thing for various people from outside the ward to attend the Sacrament Meeting sustaining of family members to the Bishopric. (There was another I hadn't heard of, though I don't remember what it was at the moment-- may have to listen again!) I have a few to add to the list. 1) "Church voice" -- This is heard particularly from women speaking at General Conference (basically ALL of them with English as their first language) It is beyond Utah accent, and more a cadence and intonation (also word choice plays a part) that is just very bizarre and totally, for me, distracts from their message. Maybe it is just a personal issue, but it's hard for me to even pay attention to what they are saying when I just get hung up on this internal dialogue, "WHY are they talking like that? To show how righteous and holy they are?" It would be so good to hear a woman speak in General Conference who just sounded like a normal person speaking boldly and intelligently without this tendency to try to sound very demure! (Julie B. Beck... Julie Beck ;) was one who spoke more plainly and "normally," though you could still hear it coming through a little. 2) Like your thought for Sunday School presidencies, I have thought and made the argument, why don't we allow a woman to hold a calling to set the talks for Sacrament meeting? It is necessarily (doctrinally) a part of the Bishop's and councelors' duties? The Priesthood is not needed for that task it seems, just Divine inspiration and this is as available to a worthy Sister, and I think we (as a gender in general) would also be great at it! Not necessarily better at it, but I would like the chance to take a turn someday to fulfill that task... I just don't see why this needs to be a Priesthood thing.. Related to that 3) In adulthood, as a member of Young Women's leadership, it has really bothered me this tradition of every time we have a Young Women's camp, we have this evening event that's supposed to be a big spiritual highlight where a Priesthood holder (usually a member of the Bishopric or Stake Presidency) comes out to speak to the Young Women. Do they have a member of Relief Society come out to speak to the Young Men at Young Men's Camp? As far as I know, typically no. I don't see why we do this. In my opinion, it would be so much more spiritually powerful and relevant for a woman (intelligent, spiritual, experienced in womanhood and motherhood and living the gospel) to be held in this position of honor to address the Young Women about the most important matters of life and spirituality. It sends the message that no matter who you are as a woman, a man will have more spiritual insight and experience than you could because he holds the Priesthood. This is not true. There are things Priesthood holders CAN do that a woman, or anyone without the Priesthood could not, but deeply inspiring the hearts and bouying up and strengthening and preparing the spirits of young women is not one of them. It feels as a leader like, "step aside woman, here come the big guns to really teach these girls what they need to know." And most of the women act like that is the case as well. (I actually made the large cultural faux-pa of raising my hand when the Bishop was done talking to the girls as we sat around a campfire to add something I felt impressed by the spirit to add, and after sharing felt some awkwardness. When I discussed this with my husband he said, "You are not supposed to talk after the Bishop. His remarks are supposed to be the final remarks." I felt angry about my embarrassment about this (not feeling like I should be made to feel embarrassed, but feeling the pressure of the cultural mistake) and went to talk to the Bishop and apologize. I thought he might laugh and say he was glad I shared and followed the Spirit and no big deal, but he said, "Yes... well... it's just usually not done that way. Not sure if it's in the handbook, but..." !!!! Guess I missed the memo growing up in Alaska. What a stupid cultural tradition!!! Seems very prideful. I was released from my calling in Young Womens not long after. Thank you for your thoughts and sharing the history on these silly traditions that you dug up.
For me, as a life long member who had inactive parents and thus wasn’t able to regularly attend meetings during my formative years; all of these rules and cultural traditions simply produce the highest levels of anxiety for an already anxious person. Imagine not exactly being a convert but you’re also not exactly a traditional lifelong member being expected to have memorized all of these silent social cues and rules by adulthood. I’ve also discovered that I’m expected to seamlessly enter into any calling given because it’s assumed that we all grew up watching our parents performing all of these callings to perfection. When I ask for help like additional training; I’m given no instruction other than to pray about it; which believe me I’m already doing! Golly, it’s been rough. Haha
I Liked your comment; but I don't think that really helps much.
Please understand that many of these Cultural Issues inside the Faith are often as much frustrating for Lifelong LDS People as they are for many Converts.
My Parents were both raised inside the Church, and yet- They really dislikes a bunch of cultural practices inside the Faith. They taught us that the Tenets of our Faith and the culture are 2 separate things; not one and the same. Most in our Area did not feel the same.
Also, there are regional and national Cultural Differences, and that is normal and fine, but I don't ever want to see teenagers from a Tongan-Speaking Ward in the Salt Lake Area pushing Handcarts in the Days of 47 Parade.... They have their OWN Pioneers; and that is perfectly OK.
I have to disagree with what you said about the silence after the musical number. Sometimes you can show the most respect and enjoyment by silence. To hear clapping after that would just destroy it for me. On this topic may I add one more irritant. After sacrament talks, somehow the Brother conducting feels the need to get up and recap the talks. Just let the talks stand on their own. No recapping is necessary. By that time I am ready to get the meeting closed. Also another one in Testimony Meeting is when someone gets up and says I just cant stand the time going to waste. Who says it is going to waste? Cant we sit in silence for 5 minutes without getting freaked out? The Church is still true though.
Never apologize and talk about how scary it is to speak and how glad you will be to have this over, how you have suffered since being asked ect…good way to make those listening uncomfortable, speaking is a wonderful spiritual experience.
Oh yes, i got chastised really hard one time for passing the sacrament tray with my other hand! I was a convert and it really hurt my feelings at the time!
There is the tendency of the artist to treat the rest hymn as a talent show rather than Sacrament meeting centered on the Savior. Clapping denotes admiration to the individual and that's not the reason they were asked to perform. It should be about bringing the Spirit to the meeting and not praising the individual. I understand that you feel differently since you are the father/ husband of the artists tho. Beards are also not allowed if you're a temple worker 😮.
...and yet everyTemple has pictures of Yeshua with a beard.....
Back in the day I was coming back from a businesses trip the day before my brothers farwell talk and missed a layover flight. Slept in the airport and missed the sacrement meeting the next morning by an hour. I was very greatful that the Bishop we had at the time recorded the talks for my parents on my moms phone so I could see them when I eventually made it home.
Thanks Brother Grumpy Gills!
Good musing. I feel the exact same way on every single one of the 16 traditions in the church. One we've encounter over the years is that when our kids turn 8 and its time to plan the baptism it's a tradition that it needs to be done on Saturday and not on Sunday. I get it that priesthood leaders are busy and the font might be less accessible, but we've always over-ridden it and pushed for Sunday. It's such a better experienced when a covenant is made on Sunday. Saturday's are busy and often a baptism can end up being between running here and there shopping and sports or whatever and thus easily to be forgotten.
I think the ban on recording had gone out the windows after covid when everyone was broadcasting the meeting. We've been quietly recording important events for years. Of course, I might be considered a rebel by some. 😉
I’m with you on all of these except the applause in sacrament meetings. These are both poor ideas.
The Bishop taking the sacrament first is not doctrinal, but is practical because if there is an issue that the YM missed, he can give counsel before it’s distributed (eg if the pray needs to be repeated). It’s a good practice to keep the meeting distraction free.
Baby blessings are best done at church. “Every member of the church of Christ having children is to bring them unto the elders before the church, who are to lay their hands upon them in the name of Jesus Christ, and bless them in his name” (Doctrine and Covenants 20:70).
Because a member of the bishopric presides over baby blessings, if you have it in your home you are putting an unnecessary time demand on the priesthood leader - best just done in church unless extenuating circumstances.
Members with minimal leadership experience don’t appreciate these nuances, but when you’ve served in many leadership callings you appreciate every effort to reduce the time burden on members. You are all at church anyway, so bless the baby there (generally speaking)
I'd like it if we could say "amen" after musical numbers. They are after all another form of a testimony given. The silence is weird and applause is weird. An amen...would be beautiful
@@teresawood3562 I think the silence after a powerful musical item is beautiful, spiritual, and reverent
I love that most of my children were blessed at home
Clapping in sacrament meeting is for a reason, it's just never explained, like a lot of things we do in church. Sacrament meeting should be 100% about worshipping The Lord God and His Son. If you clap for a performance you are focusing on the person and/or the performance. You can tell them after sacrament how much you enjoyed the music and felt the spirit through it.
This is also a problem when you talk in sacrament and spend time talking about yourself or making the talk about yourself (by being humorous or telling jokes or trying to make an amazing talk so everyone will be impressed). It's not about you, it's supposed to be about worshipping the Father and the Son.
Using the right hand is in the handbook haha. I don't think its so hard and fast like you're holding a baby or something no big deal. Pretty sure handbook says "if you can you should try" or something. I like it though. Ton of scriptures about right hand of God and I've actually studied it a bit and found a lot of symbolism.
As a livelong, active member for 40 years, I first heard of using the right hand for the sacrament while teaching Primary and the coloring page for the Sacrament lesson said to use the right hand.
The current 2024 general handbook does not mention using the right hand to take the sacrament.
@@clintonlemarluke1507 I haven’t read the 2024 updated version. I was schedule pay surprised when I read in the previous version it was mentioned; something like “when possible members are encouraged to take the sacrament with the right hand.”
I guess it does make sense when you think about other covenants like baptisms, baby blessings, temples we always use our right hands.
Symbolically in the scripts the righteous are on the right hand of God. Benjamin in Hebrew means son of the right hand. Christ is in the right hand of God. Very symbolic.
“Bearing your testimony” as an excuse to tell the ward how great you are and you will be translated soon.
I would say there is an eternal symbolic reason for the use of the right hand as the covenant hand. Similar to many other symbolic associations in all ordinances. Right hand to the square, temple things, sustaining leaders, etc. all done with the right hand specifically. Many cultures have carried this for specific reasons that go back to the gospel including using the right hand to eat and keep clean and the left to wipe their butts. If a thief stole they’d cut off his right hand and he would then have to use his dirty hand to eat and wipe with.
I’ve also heard quotes of prophets stating the higher law to many things that seem silly today but ignorance of not understanding it is hardly reason enough to mock it. For example (paraphrasing) Joseph said that we really understood the higher law we’d avoid even killing an ant on the sidewalk. Or hearing competition of any sort will be something that is not in the kingdom of God.
Again, who are we to mock these things as foolish tradition or silly cultural things rather than higher laws that we are obviously not capable of understanding?
Fool mock
Using the right hand is in the handbook haha. I don't think its so hard and fast like you're holding a baby or something no big deal. Pretty sure handbook says "if you can you should try" or something. I like it though. Ton of scriptures about right hand of God and I've actually studied it a bit and found a lot of symbolism.
Father's and mother's days are the worst for fathers and mothers, respectively. The fathers day talks are about how men need to do better and women are perfect. Neither of their intended audiences like those messages on their day.
My son in law was called to be a counselor in the Bishopric. We live in the area and attended the sustaining and setting apart in order to give support. He has since grown into the call but was very overwhelmed at first.
I always rail against starting your talk with the story of how you got assigned the talk. I have trained my children never to do it. I have also always wished I could teach a class on how to write a talk. It’s partly public speaking but also similar to writing an essay. Being an English major has served me well this way. It does feel like a good idea for a church that has its members do the sermons.
Today's General Conference talks are a good template. The speaker usually goes directly to the doctrine.
Patriotic Songs in Sacrament are awesome!!!
Correct. Especially for the US, since it is doctrinal that our constitution was inspired by God.
Especially "God save the queen"... or would it be "king" now? I'm confused now
I used to think the same way. Then I learned about how propaganda works, and what corporate governance is.
I love this! Definitely want to bless my next baby at home. Also, I hate how we have Halloween parties. Our Christian cousins don't celebrate Halloween, why do we? I love dressing up but why all the satanic stuff? Why condition our kids to see scary things and tell them lies like, "Don't worry, thats not real." But then we go around and say, "Santa is real. The Easter Bunny is real but Ghosts and witches are not real..." I would love to hear your input on this.
Sales pitch sunday makes me want to walk out.
That's the one where the speakers try to sell you on the latest program byu pathways, self reliance class, addiction recovery, ect
Interesting thoughts. Thanks for sharing them. I agree with some but not with others. When General Authorities are acting as such, I see nothing wrong with showing them tokens of respect; in other contexts, there's nothing wrong with informality---I remember hearing that Elder Holland asked his son-in-law to call him "Jeff" or something. Thanks for that tip about avoiding playing cards. I appreciate your thoughts about how speaking repeatedly doesn't necessarily lead to speaking well---and, as followers of The Word, it's good to learn to speak well, and to do so persuasively. It seems to me that anything that's genuinely addictive is probably sinful. Yes, I suspect that current beard policies are more rooted in transitory culture than in timeless universal principle and, as such, they'll probably change, especially as the Church continues to expand worldwide. Thankfully, when God's servants err, He knows how to correct them in His times and ways and such.
Maybe unpopular opinion: when we speak in sacrament it isn’t the same as a job. We aren’t speaking to the congregation's we are worshiping God. It’s bigger than ourself bigger than the “audience” we are speaking to worship. If something detracts YOU from the spirit in sacrament YOU are in the wrong state of mind because worship is only about God.
Conner, thank you for this post. It's good to get things off your chest. I see you are much like I, by nature and/or training observe details and question everything. Your points possibly will bring attention to certain things that will make our Church services even better if we are not too cynical in our need to "perfect" the Church. But for the most part others overlook these things and enjoy the worship service presented by many from widely varied backgrounds. Roll with it Brother, enjoy the journey to Zion, said the near Octogenarian enjoying the blue sky. :)
I'm a convert and didn't even know abt some is these things! Some were really funny! Lol!
I had thought it was funny we don't clap after a performance!
People should clap after I speak
An amen, is how we do it in church. I'd love an amen after a musical number too!
The military one has never been done in any ward I am in, but prayers have always been full of them praying for the military. And I took the sacrament left handed until just recently because i read it in the handbook. I didn’t know it wasn’t supposed to be that way.
The other thing I think needs to change is us closing the doors for sacrament. It’s nowhere in the handbook and I think it can make people feel uncomfortable
Everyone should watch a toastmaster video as part of their talk preparation
Patriotic hymns in America, and you don’t stand or sing? That, to me, as a grateful and humble American who got to have all the blessings of all the men and women who gave their lives for our freedom… that’s totally not something I would ever feel comfortable doing. I’ll say it like that. I haven’t heard people talk about the number of military members in the ward, either, but that is a noble sacrifice, too. You probably wouldn’t understand how much if you aren’t in the military.
Watch some videos by general smedley butler. Eye opening
Face cards - it's actually more than gambling. The typical poker face cards, are actually a subset of tarot cards. Thay are the court cards of a tarot deck. I think a lot of people are ignorant of theat history. It's kind of like playing with other astrology issues. If you're not telling fortunes, does it really matter?
The musical instruction was a short period we experimented with an opening exercise in Sunday School - it was Church wide, but only lasted a year or so.
As to SS presidencies, your issue could be applied to every single position in the Church. I would add this idea that women would do a better job just because they are women is a far more harmful cultural tradition.
You completely miss the point on applause in sacrament meeting and in particular music - perfmormances are not for the art or for the enjpoyment of the music. It has nothing to do with applause not being spiritual, but where we place focus.
We don't record so that blessings, prayers, talks, etc aren't posted on UA-cam and become representative of the Church. Specifically, a recent pirate release of a video of Brad Wilcox which became incredibly controversial.
Part of the reason that the Bishop is served the sacrament first is so they are then able to observe the sacrament - which they have a responsibility.
I think it's ironic one of your issues is that you weren't supposed to take a picture of your son's first testimony to share and have memory, and then get upset about family coming to see a calling.
So much of this is just whining without bothering to understand the what or why. I sense more of a searching for issues than anything else.
Some good points. Yes, the Bishop has the responsibility, as the presiding Aaronic Priesthood holder to ensure that the sacrament is administered appropriately. From a practical perspective he can stop the process before others have had a chance to take the emblems if they haven’t been blessed correctly etc.
Tarot was just a game when the poker cards derived from them. Even then, tarot isn’t evil. It’s a tool for self reflection at best, and at worst a failed attempt to tell the future. No worse than bibliomancy, which is a common practice amongst all Christians.
💯 on all these things! How about only white shirts, standing for every prayer even if there's only a few people present, no talking in the chapel?🤪
I always thought the Bishop received the Sacrament first because he presides over its administration. So the Stake President is served first when he's present for the same reason. This allows them to ensure the administration was done correctly.
It's actually a poison test. If the Bishop lives, the sacrament is safe for everyone else.
I agree with all your comments except the sugar and treats restriction. Blasphemy!!! Get thee behind me Satan.
I used to not understand serving the presiding official first, but now I think it is the way to ensure that the ordinance has been performed correctly. If the priest gets up and starts handing out trays before the bishop has a chance to get him to say the prayer again, at least he can stop the train once the tray gets to him.
Oh, another one! Having one parent an active member of the church and one nonmember parent has been interesting... When I started noticing the term "part-member family" being used about my family I was so weirded out! The feeling that I got from those using that term was that they saw me, my siblings, and my mom as "part-members" ourselves (with more fragile testimonies and needing to be sheparded along in particular way) because my dad was not a member. Believe me, to be a totally active lifelong member of the church with a spouse or parent who is not a member, does not make you a "part member." The rest of us were total, full-on, FULL members whose testimonies were more our own and more chosen and fully internalized (not cultural) than most of our peers', or our mom's peers for her-- it takes some serious conviction to stick to it and live it "on your own" in a relationship, and that should be recognized. Those that knew us well wouldn't have used that term. "Part Member Family" should definitely go.
We should never label anyone, member, non member, active or inactive and now add to that “ part member family” per Elder Ballard NOT Ok!
Haha, my husband would request "God Save the King" to troll his teacher, who was his mom's best friend. And the candy everywhere is a society-wide problem! Everywhere you go they're trying to give my kids candy. It drives me crazy.
If the music leader/conductor gives the signal for you to stand, you are supposed to, if you can. When people take it upon themselves when the conductor hasn’t told them to the issue for me. Anywho- I wouldn’t take Mother’s Day chocolate away because some women that is the only recognition/appreciation they get.
Whats worse with the candy, is when one kid gets candy and the others don't. Sigh...many times.
I joined the church at 40. I never had public speaking. I refuse to do it. I would love public speaking classes.
I'm in a YSA ward we don't clap but my bishop has us do like a jazz hands or snap haha It's awesome my bishop is amazing!!!
The jazz finger snaps seem very commie to me. It’s a slippery slope to Fosse hands .👐
After a very beautiful musical solo I stood and asked all who appreciated it to say Amen. There was a hesitation and then the entire congregation gave a spirit filled Amen.
If our bishop asked us to do jazz hands or finger snaps, my testimony would go right down the toilet. As a musician, I like the silence.
@@markturner5207 nice 👍
I'd love to be able to simply say "amen" as a congregation after musical numbers.
Hey Connor...a good discussion to have is what is meant by the phrase or terminology " the true order of prayer" ...what exactly is it, because we are taught about in the Temple, but have no idea what it actually means???
NOTE: sometime back in the mid- late 1980's a letter was read over the pulpit in Sacrament Mtg. that the congregation COULD applaud! For the life of me I cannot find it, but there are some that do remember this.
PLEASE FIND this! I would really appreciate it.
These were all good but how did you miss the white shirt and tie official uniform?!
Very good. A lot of these things are not in the handbook, but people and/or leaders continue with these absurd traditions.
Once again with no applause. They aren’t preforming for YOU. They’re preforming for GOD. To applause would be to say you were pleased. It isn’t about you being pleased it’s about the God being pleased. My mother is an accomplished musician and has worked with the organists and pianists who play at the tabernacle. She ALWAYS prays she will not even be thanked. That all the thanks and praise will go to God NOT her. Her talent at that time is for GOD, not your enjoyment.
The only thing I disagree with is the clapping in sacrament meeting. It's good to remember it's the body of the Savior under that white cloth.
With families spread out why can’t baptisms be done via Zoom or FaceTime so family can watch?
It's a ordinance
We just participated via Zoom. My wife and I gave a talk too.
You can zoom a baptism! You just aren’t supposed to record it as far as I know (which may be wrong)
8:18 Me, playing solitaire on my phone while I listen/ watch this: 😶😬
My kids play with face cards in Sacrament meeting 😅
Our Ward doesn't stand when we sing patriotic songs. Most of our patriotic songs contain a line of reference to God.
It's interesting that the handbook specifically calls out the left hand behind the back as something that shouldn't be enforced. Yet it also outlines that members should partake with the right hand when possible. I wonder what the reasoning is to have that direction in the handbook. One of the things I've thought about church "culture" recently is what the outcome and why would I purposely go against the perceived culture.
As much as people like to point to the church being global and that standards are global, I think the outcomes are different. A controversial issue comes to mind: proper dress in church. Obviously, all are welcome regardless of apparel. Yet it is almost an expectation that in the US, men wear shirt and tie, and women wear dresses. (No one is/should be barred from participation if they deviate from this) In other cultures, men may wear skirts, women wear pants, or other variations. Yet a big point of discussion is whether those practices should be followed elsewhere when they deviate from the local culture. I think it comes down to what the effects/intentions are. Why do we choose to act differently from the mainstream culture? Is it to make a statement? Is it to push boundaries? I would argue that that is inappropriate. One reason certain cultural practices exist is to foster unity. Once we start trying to stand outside the "norm" to show that something is merely cultural, are we purposely or inadvertently trying to distract from the true purpose of the meetings?
I definitely think we need to be aware of our extra-doctrinal cultural practices. Yet, I don't think we have to avoid all of them (I agree that the self-deprecation is unhelpful for example). I also don't see harm in seeing symbolism in non-standard behavior/cultural practice. Arguably, any symbolism only works because of the meanings derived by cultural practices. So if you find that a cultural practice personally helps you connect with God through symbolism, I think that is wonderful. The problem comes when we try to enforce that type of understanding on others, or we judge the behavior of others as disrespecting the symbols that we have latched onto or created.
Thanks for the video, and I think this is a great conversation to have.
Once again recording your children it’s NOT about you. Their yay good job kids. NO it’s about GOD.
The called into the bishopric is usually attended because there is a High Priest ordination. At least that was my case.
I like a lot of your points in your videos, but wow! To not understand that you don't clap because we aren't there to praise those who sing or play an instrument, but instead we are there to praise God. And the music was to praise God. And we don't clap to God. Wow! Sometimes you just don't get some things.
Maybe YOU don't get it. Maybe do a little more research on clapping and praising God. Sounds like you're stuck in a false tradition.
The tradition I can't stand is families and friends all congregating at the airport to welcome home a returning missionary with balloons and big signs and all kind of hoopla. Instead, the parents should go to the airport to pick up the missionary and take him/her to ANOTHER LOCATION AWAY FROM THE AIRPORT and there they can have all the hoopla and people they want. I joined the Church at 19 and went on a mission at 25. When I came home from my mission to Japan, my non-member mother and father picked me up at the airport and brought me home and that's all I needed. Recently my friend and her husband picked up their son at the airport after his mission while they rest of us went to her house where Grandma had things organized and we all surprised him with a party there. He got to spend quality time with his parents in private on the drive home from the airport without any outside interference. If a missionary is trained to expect a lot of hoopla at the airport, that's bad.
Number of the people serving in the military, US thing. Greetings from Finland!
Another tradition: "I interview , and found him to be worthy to be ordained a Deacon in the Aaronic Priesthood"
Bishoprics should not be taking about someone's worthiness during a sustaining. It's obvious they are worthy.
We don't hear this when someone is ordained as Bishop, or High Priest.
...what IF.... instead of applause we simply said Amen?
An "amen" would be better than any applause. 😊 my musical numbers are after all a testimony more than a performance.
Also...teach sunbeams as long as me you'll get the idea of treats. Sunbeam don't have natural motives for listening 😂 older primary kids may. I don't always bring candy. It's often carrots 😂. But tell you what all my kids remember who king Benjamin was, what the stripling warriors did and they know their stuff! I'm satisfied.
Ps I'm so glad you'll be sharing soon why you are still here. Im with you almost 100% on all your videos. But just like anything...it's as important to acknowledge the good as it is the bad. I stay here myself because 1. The book of mormon is freaking awesome and TRUE. 2. We are the only church that teaches a Gethsemane based atonement vs cross based atonement which when understood is a huge clarification on God's nature. The other guys think gethsemane was nothing but a prayer of dread about the cross and death approaching. And that this bodily torture of crucifixion ..was somehow what saved us. I guess because its awful and painful?...Which says what about god?... Of course we know the atonement was Gethsemane. The anonment was actually christ learning intimately and experiencing our individual situations, and that the death on the cross was just needed to finalize his life and teach resurrection. game changer! Temples....the understanding that we have any kind of pre-earth life. You just wont find these game changers anywhere else. This church is a place I can worship with, and meet, others who share those AMAZING core beleifs.
These precious gems shouldn't just be *acknowledged* (along side all the valid complaints) they should be praised and celebrated. Otherwise you risk over emphasis on the bad and creating a dark mood for those who follow you. But please keep it up. God is amazing! We are so loved.
Military acknowledgment is only an American thing and is very weird and awkward for everyone else. I attended performances at Nauvoo and there was a big acknowledgment of the military. Made me uncomfortable, even though I personally respect people who serve in the military. I couldn’t see what it had to do with either Nauvoo or the Church.
Maybe the cultural-emotional connection of the military being a protective tool for the founding of and support of the country prepared and allowed to be the place of the restoration of the Gospel?
Your freedoms thanks to those that serve and protect.
But think of it from a member of the Church from Japan or Germany or Iran watching the Church pageant and seeing a military display. Don’t think of it from an American perspective, think of it from a Church member perspective.
I get that and am grateful. But it’s still very much an American perspective. I know it’s hard to understand an outsider perspective. We now have more members outside the USA. if you went to a Church related event in Moscow and saw a tribute to the Russian military, that would be a similar experience.
The military honor has been eliminated in Nauvoo I miss it. Our country exists so that the Gospel could be restored.
Hey will you PLEASE let me be in your ward when you become bishop? We think alike and I agree with you on every one of the silly culture traditions on your list!!!! My ward does ALL of them without skipping a beat!!!! That's why I am hating church... I go to feel the Spirit and worship and recommit to my covenants but man is it hard when I have to fight my inner thoughts and feelings about the crap going on!!! I want to stand up and shout "Get on with it!" when people have to introduce themselves or self defeat themselves like you were saying... one man gave a talk and it was ALL about him!!!!!!! He never said Jesus or Christ or Savior or anything else referring to the Lord for a full 13 minute talk!!!!! Why can't it be a culture thing for the bishop to stand up and say enough is enough!!!!!? Will you please talk about how one can get out of their ward without moving?
I joined the church in 1974 and we could not get a temple recommend if we drank caffeinated soda -coke, Pepsi etc. it somehow changed in the mid 1990s. What gets me about the W of W is all those who worry about caffeine (not even mentioned in the D&C) but they will chow down on meat (which requires slaughtering animals) daily and which is mentioned in D&C.
Eating meat in and of itself isn’t forbidden by the WoW, but partaking of coffee, tea, and alcohol is. What gets me are the ones bashing soft drinks with caffeine, but chow down on chocolate daily.
Heber J Grant was a beer guzzler when he got called to the 12. Joseph Smith drank beer. Brigham Young owned a bar in SLC.
D&C 89:13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.
Seems we shouldn't be eating meet except for in times of winter, cold, or famine.
(I actually became a summer time vegetarian 15 years ago, largely because of this. It's fairly interesting)
It sounds like sunday school presidencies need to step it up, not get rid of them. With that thought, every calling could be done better by women. But isnt it about growth and not just relegating all men to sit in the back row and shut up. We already have a lot of men who just don’t do anything. It’s about opportunity to grow.
11:30 Talks. Agreed.
There was always song practice in the wards I attended in Oregon & Washington.
14:15 W of W...Sugar and Swig shops. Funny.
18:20 Facial hair. When leaders tell others to shave their beards, it's their own opinion. No where in the hand book does it say to shave. It's not on the temple recommend questionnaire.
19: 35 SS Pres.
22:30 Musicals in Sac. mtg. Let's clap.
25:42 recording in the chapel (I'm guilty).
27:20 Rt. hand.
The Primary handbook used to say....do NOT give treats. When six kids get in the van to go home and some have treats and others do not.....you know what happens.
I share some of your frustration with traditions that somehow become doctrine but what happens when all of culture is stripped away? That’s what is happening in the world right now. Tearing down culture and institutions. Replacing with what?
My guess on the military probably goes back to WWI and WWII where large amounts of young men might be overseas at war rather than being on a mission. And most were not choosing that as a career. So it was a way to recognize them. I'm sure it's an American thing. I've not heard it announced recently, most likely because there are very few if any in the military now.
What about J. Golden Kimball? Is J. His first name or something?
Jonathan.
I’m on board with a lot of what you say, but I think you are way off on some of the nitpicking stuff you talk about. I can see that you are on your way out of the Church. I’ve seen it before.
I’m not sure if it’s for views or yes he is fault finding and inviting the spirit of apostasy.
Thank you for blessing us with your expertise.
Umm no he’s not on his way out. I’m also a member that thinks the same way about cultural things we as a people adopt as if they were doctrines. Culture is an interesting thing and so is some baggage we get over the years. Hats in the church used to be a big NO culturally growing up. Now many walk around on Wednesdays with hats on. Things change in culture. Doctrines are different than culture. I like his line of thinking.
Oh my gosh YES on Mothers Day and Father’s Day!!!! I wish we would get rid of this nonsense tradition. If that’s the only way people feel “appreciated,” then there are other problems that need to be addressed.
How about parents letting their kids under 8 take the sacrament? It's a missed opportunity to teach them. It's just plain laziness, or simply to pacify a child. Basically, it's mocking God.
Why are Ward Mission Leaders only men?
Ya face cards is something I have always made fun of. Even tarot cards did not originate as anything to do with the occult. They were just game cards as well and then someone pretended they could start divining with them. I think the self deprecation is just a common thing for nervous people do to lower expectations and also try and be funny. I always understood serving the bishop first was to be sure everything is ok with the prayer. If he takes it then it's all good to move on and continue. Now I see the bishop give a quick thumbs up to the priest if all was good with the prayer so seems unnecessary after that to give it to whoever is presiding.
Harold b Lee spoke harshly against face cards. If you are a member you are not in good standing if you work as a dealer for casinos.
@@debramessenger8811 LOL
Haha 😂 my ward only celebrates mothers day
You forgot the one where Utah members look for any and all opportunities to talk about their “pioneer heritage”
Sometimes you want to be more formal, sometimes less formal. Let me see, what can I find wrong or silly or….. sometimes you have to stand tall, sometimes you need to be flexible. Your desire to make things less rigid seem pretty rigid. You have said some pretty remarkable things in your videos. Not your best work.
We sang the Star Spangled Banner for our closing hymn today.
I love standing and singing all the verses (That are in the hymnal)
I especially love the 3rd verse:
O thus be it ever when freemen shall stand
Between their lov'd home and the war's desolation!
Blest with vict'ry and peace may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the power that hath made and preserv'd us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto - "In God is our trust,"
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
That's not the 3rd verse of the poem, though, that's the 4th! They didn't include the 3rd verse in the hymnal:
And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash'd out their foul footstep's pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
I suppose the Church leadership thought we probably shouldn't sing in church about the pollution of the foul footsteps of the Redcoats being washed out by their blood, just like they eventually changed the "Praise to the Man" lyrics to say that the martyrs' blood would "plead unto Heav'n" instead of "stain Illinois".
Propaganda is very effective.
I have a problem with being voluntold to clean the church on Saturdays or at all. We give so many hours of service in our callings and activities but now we also miss watching kids in sports games and family time on Saturdays to scrub a public toilet. 💩💩 Most of the time only a couple families show up and then most do a crap job. The church has billions of dollars…why are we janitors too? I understand that maybe the concept is taking care of it will help us to treat it better but I’m not sold on that. I think they should hire church members (member cleaning group) as a part time job to do it (they already pay members to clean the temples) or hire it out to professionals that know how to clean and properly sanitize. We joke in our family how much of a “ germ fest” the church is 😂.
I hear this all the time! And I agree!! But honestly, I’d just like a vacuum at church that is from this century….. !
Bring carrot sticks
rusty mormon nelson
It’s true, there is a lot of culture & so that’s life or like we know in business that’s what makes up a market as to different variations.
Like with being clean shaven that’s the way I like it or wearing the important garment of the priesthood I would have it no other way !
I recall a son ,who thought he should have driving privileges, & the father desired to have his son show him something, first, with maintaining good grades , reading the scriptures daily, as well as keeping a clean cut appearance which the son didn’t agree with the last one as the son brought up Jesus had long hair (which nobody knows that as we don’t have a polaroid of even the prophet Joseph Smith , either)!
The dad faced this objection of his son by saying simply “Jesus & His apostles WALKED everywhere!”
Active military member announcement “must” be American thing. It seems to me that many members equate being in military something extra ordinary, DEFENDING your country not realizing that this country has not been attacked by any country since Second World War. If anything, other way around. Military service is good and so are any other professions like firefighters, etc.
Secret Handshakes from Freemasonry and the brand logo of Freemasonry on the garments are a weird tradition.
Foolish traditions