[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Sydney Sleeper
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- Опубліковано 27 тра 2023
- Have you ever looked at a weapon and wondered, "How am I even supposed to use this piece of shit?" Don't worry. I'm here now.
This weapon puts me to sleep. Then I wake up in Sydney with no money, a tattoo, and a missing finger. It happens more often than you'd think.
Rebalance Servers: www.badweaponrehab.tf/
Twitter: / fsoas_
Patreon: / fishstickonastick
Main Channel: / @fishstickonastick
Discord - / discord
Music used:
TF2 OST - Magnum Force
Donkey Kong Country OST - Розваги
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![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Sandman](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] The Hitman's Heatmaker Is A Weapon That Exists](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KZN-7JPwM6U/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Gas Passer](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fRsGX2puBaE/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Sniper's SMG: Subpar or Supreme?](/img/n.gif)
I think it’s funny how many weapons there are that provide a more balanced version of Jarate, while Jarate itself has never been nerfed once.
Prob cuz its so easy for sniper to steal anything take a piss in it and throw that than it is to kill a medic steal his syringes and somehow draw piss from his body
Sydney sleeper is a balanced mini crit weapon, too bad it’s overshadowed by jarate.
P.S The ambassador is still better
The saving grace for jarate is everyone uses it selfishly. And when used that way its actually a balanced weapon that is both fun to use and fun to play against. Its only when used as a team weapon that is so OP. I really wish they would nerf it to allow airblast to remove the effect. And while they are at it airblast should remove mad milk.
@@EdibleREAL just like how Syringe Guns are decently balanced, but the Crossbow exists.
@@peterisawesomeplease Nah maybe make it so the manmelter can remove those? The manmelter's whole thing is supporting teammates, but afterburn can already be removed by a flamethrower without giving up a flare or shotgun. Make it so the manmelter can remove those.
This weapon is a psychological weapon, not just because you're being injected with p1$$! But because the second someone gets hit by it and sees the yellow filter, they tend to panic and retreat
literally the heavy class
he sucks ass but hes scary
@@pogobod2128 no and yes
Turns sniper into a support
A longer fan scout
"Psychological damage doesn't show up on the leaderboard, man!"
But why do that... when you can kill them outright?
Say what you want about Sydney Sleeper, but it's really good at what it is meant to do: making people pissed.
i know what you did there "pissed" 🗿
"ah piss!"
It's actually really good at what it does: charge up 150 bodyshots on medics quicker if your team can't hit heads
Jarate: did you forget about me?
"Nice bodyshot asshole" the weapon.
The perfect weapon to piss off and piss on your enemies
Oh let me guess you filled it with piss. 👋👋
" i can't talk right now * put Sun glasses* im making PISS*link park Begin playing*
@@samfire3067 I thought it was Three Days Grace that played in the original?
@@unexpectedgouf5225 i don't remember what music was in The original.
Piss on, piss off.
"with jarate, you don't need to put yourself in a risky position"
_solo charges the cart_
piss
😂
The Sydney Sleeper's best stat is a hidden one. "Tilts the enemy sniper on kill"
Yup, full-charge bodyshot enemy sniper with the Sleeper, and either they crumple in to a ragdoll, or are left running around like a headless chicken with piss on them at low health and miss their shot because you hit first.
And i think, It can stinguish fire from alies ( maybe IS only with Full charge) but i maybe be missRemembering.
I love mocking other Snipers level of skill by hardscoping them
@@samfire3067they mention that in the video. That aspect of the weapon is bugged to not always happen, though.
The Classic dude.
The Sydney Sleeper is a sane man in a mad world. Applying 5 seconds of Jarate at range is useful... but the actual Jarate weapon applies it for 10 seconds in a massive AoE with good range to boot. Being unable to quickscope is more "fair" but when every other sniper can quickscope to one-shot most classes who cares about "fairness?" The Sydney Sleeper is that one anime protagonist who's holding back for "chivalry" or whatever, only you aren't so vastly overpowered to make your refusal to fight at full strength a noble act.
Quickscoping isn’t overpowered against people with half decent movement
HeDronHeDronHedron
It still is
@@GoldenRedder it really isnt if you know how to fucking dodge and dont just walk in a straight line towards the sniper
@@shitanotosauruswhat if the snipers just good though. Like if they’re good enough there’s not much you can really do
@@thatgoldenguy3272 unless the map has no flank routes i doubt theres nothing you can do. but if you mean hes a god lever sniper and can quickscope everybody, no matter how good their movement... yeah theres not much you can do about it. but that goes for a lot of classes besides heavy and spy.
10:00 "There are some more stationary targets that even the dopiest of snipers can headshot"
You overestimate me
I didn't even know you could shoot allies directly to extinguish them, it's the only rifle (huntsman excluded) I use because headshots are hard. Also it goes "pew"
I remember when it used to create a jarate explosion on headshot, but that got removed because they thought it was overpowered for some reason. So now it just feels kind of awkward to use without that stat.
It got removed? Damn i thought it still worked to this day
I'll be honest, that stat fit the weapon better than the mini-crit headshot too.
I used to love that stat, but sadly, yeah... it was kinda absurd.
Remember the Jarate video where he talked about Jarate invalidating an entire push through the throw of a single item. Jarate splash headshots were that, but at a much greater range and without a metered cooldown.
*PISS explosion*
@@joedingo7022 probably for the best, think fish’s balance works WAY better.
You ever die because a demo’s pill hits your teammate and you die from the splash damage? This sounds like an even worse version of that.
I’m so glad that the rebalance servers exist, because now Fish’s rebalance concepts can actually be tested in-game.
Not a good look for him when he literally admits being biased at the start of the video. Balance discussion/attempts should be objective.
@@HowToMolly Honestly its not too big a deal cuz Fish isn't the one rebalancing the server. He's just the owner mostly. Its the head dev Shaker whose doing all the actual rebalance work and testing out Fish's rebalance ideas.
@@cantankerousgoblin I mean yeah but Tuffie still isn’t wrong, balancing something means you need to be objective, not biased (something this community can’t do).
Two people here didn't watch the video
Great blue could give some support too
I'm surprised that Fish didn't mention the fact that having Jarate with the slowing upgrade in MVM makes Sydney sleeper slow giants as well. Helps with robot scouts
It also still gets explosive headshots, which makes it actually a somewhat competent challenger for the heat maker against giants since you can stay far away and don’t hav to get close to throw jarate.
I love how the Sniper Rifle is basically a Lighting Rod on Giants, everyone around it dies as you just rain death on them.
just tested it in mvm, and it worked very well.
@@rylangraham9748 Don't explosive headshots also get a slow effect on robots tho?
You forgot to talk about the hidden stat that every Strange Killstreak version of this weapon is automatically renamed to some kind of piss-related joke.
*PISS of The toilet*
I renamed my strange s.s to Urine Therapy
@@jennbob5521 I rest my case.
@@jennbob5521 mine is golden gun
Every Sydney sleeper sniper I see has it named as "piss rifle"
This is the true "support" Sniper weapon, and not "Death incarnate" that every other rifle is- well I guess The Classic is just a classic, after all.
Classic kinda sux but its the most fun imo
Classic fucking blows peoples heads off. That shit is death’s mother if you can hit all your headshots and see what happens to the enemy
@@theucheao classic actually gibs people, heatmaker decaps
@@coffee0093 Even better
Classic reigns supreme in the satisfactory contest
The only sniper i really use. I just find it more interesting than other normal snipers (plus, strange specialized Sydney sleeper)
*rifle *rifles
@@doods_0 you're being pedantic, stop
@@doods_0 your getting uppity with grammar over that?
@@doods_0 *rififies
@@bobertastic6541 rickity rickity roo*
I feel like you should have mentioned that the Sydney Sleeper used to have explosive headshots in regular gamemodes, but instead of damage, it spread jarate. So you basically had a rapid fire jar of jarate, and valve changed it to mini crit headshots because they thought it was too overpowered. Personally I wanna see it return, it fixes a lot of problems while making the 5 second effect somewhat understandable, because you're just pumping these shots out.
I came close to mentioning it a couple of times in my script, but decided against it since the video ended up being long enough as it stands. Personally, I'm not sure if the mechanic is exactly overpowered, but I would call it frustrating if you end up being punished for your teammate being headshot, especially if you're being wary of the Sniper and hiding behind cover. If anything, I'd like to see it return as an MvM upgrade similar to Mad Milk Syringes.
I always thought the explosive jarate headshots was a really interesting idea and was sad to see it being replaced by some rather mediocre stats. Trading single target elimination for long range crowd control seemed like a good way to balance a support oriented weapon. I never got to try it out in game however, so I don't know if it was overpowered. What was everybody's experience with the weapon when it used to have explosive jarate headshots?
@@MajorKlods It was fun. Upset they removed it.
Since you couldn't just instantly kill most targets it allowed you to actually fullfil a support role.
Never got hit by it though. Never clumped up around teammates enough for that. That just makes you a target for the actual explosive classes.
Being able to insta-kill is still better though.
@@ninjashot37 Yeah but I understand why it might be frudtrated, since not only did it punsih players dtanding in a sniper sightline, it punished teammates who were standing next to them even if thry were hiding behidn cover. Maybe make it so the people around them have 5 second jarate while the headshot person gets 10 second jarate?
@@fishstickonastick-gaming I mean its the thing that made the Rifle stand out and be actually Interesting, rather then just a straight downgrade to in the Stock rifle.
Their are ways to balance it. 1. Fully Charged headshot to get the Explosion. 2. Splashed players get 5 seconds while the shot player gets the full 10 seconds just like the Jars.
Hot take: The Sydney Sleeper is Sniper's most balanced primary.
yeah.
the sleeper is perfectly fine, it's just the rest of his primaries are busted.
@@badideagenerator2315not the classic
@@badideagenerator2315I agree with this so much, honestly.
Like seriously this thing is a good weapon that feels fun to use and fight against.
But every other rifle is so good in comparison this damn thing looks terrible
The Huntsman is. Even though the Huntsman is goofy tree projectile, it's usually spam and bad luck when it does kill you at range. And being a projectile it can't kill you instantly without prefiring, it has travel time. Every other Sniper Rifle has the potential to delete you a moment after crossing into a sniper's sightline.
@@badideagenerator2315the vanilla rifle is just plain broken
The bargain is a direct upgrade
The heatmaker is sniper's version of the direct hit
The machina is your training wheels for playing sniper
The classic is just a meme weapon
15:17 I think the reason for this is because teammate on teammate interactions have ZERO lag compensation, that's why the Diciplinary Action, another weapon that relies on hitting teammates, can also be very inconsistent.
Ah. My favorite Sniper primary… Mostly cause I have a Strange one and I’ve always sucked at sniping
Aye, I named my Polycount Pack (yes, I've been playing TF2 for THAT long) Sleeper "Sydney Screw You", then when I got a Strange Sleeper I switched to that and named it the "Canberra Chest Counter".
It's relaxing counter-sniping Snipers on 2fort with the Sleeper and seeing them ragdoll or run around like a headless chicken with piss on them, as it means they're not focused on my teammates.
The Sydney Sleeper is also one of the best looking Sniper primaries imo. Though admittedly, it'd be quickly beaten by the Bazaar Bargain if it had a similar scope.
I think it looks the best and has satisfying sounds. Super satisfying to use, but I couldn't bring myself to use it much.
I personally think that the hitman heatmaker and machin look cooler. But the sidney sleeper dose look cooler compared to the bezar baragin and classic.
I always found the sleeper to be a great example of a good weapon in a kit filled with great weapons.
kit fill with overpowered weapons*
@@zwitie3455 And is still overpowered itself. Easiest gun to drop meds with
@@shadow50011so is literally every other sniper rifle
Sniper's Bizarre Primary.
Best*
Urine Tendency
no that would be the bizarre bargain
@@Andri474 jojo fans when they see someone breathing (it's a jojo reference)
@@Andri474 Piss Crusaders
Sydney Sleeper + Cleaners Carbine + Bushwacka = Hilariously tilting to the enemy medics and heavies
Switch the BW for the Shiv and this is my exact loadout 😂
Taking the term “pissing people off” to a whole other level, and it is always a fun time for me
I think the problem is that Sydney Sleeper is not necessarily that bad of a weapon by itself, but rather the fact that most other Sniper weapons are fairly broken. You have a class that has 1 true counter other than itself (Spy) that can sit comfortably behind the frontline, can instantly scope, deal consistently high damage regardless of range, has a large pool of ammo, in a game where most of the combat takes place at close to medium range. The game stops being fun when the enemy team (usually defend) has a full semi-competent Sniper nest and your team get choked point until the time runs out because no one can reach them
Even worse, Spy isn't even Sniper's TRUE counter. Sure, on less experienced Snipers, a Spy can get them every once in a while, but once the Sniper gains any amount of gamesense, they can hear the decloak and either 1. Instantly 150 quickscope the Spy, 2. Jarate/Bushwacka the Spy, 3. Random Crit the Spy, or 4. Put on the Razorback and force the Spy to reveal himself to the enemy team and get shredded by a sentry.
Unless you have the wrecking ball that is an Ubercharge, good luck pushing into a Sniper/Sentry nest.
Zesty Jesus's Sniper Tier List has a much more fleshed out preamble on why Sniper is utterly broken.
@@cowserthekhelinace from my experience, even ubercharge won't help. The uber duos usually mainly focus on the Sentry nest or vital choke point where the enemy medic heals the injured team mates near the frontline then quickly retreat once the uber runs out. Enemy snipers usually wait out and then quick scope the retreating unubered enemies. Ubered players don't usually go after snipers unless they are within reaching distance because they are literally too far away, can outrun them, and risk being wrecked by the enemy team once the uber runs out because they are way too far away from the frontline
And with The old effect of a PISS explosion on Headshot ( Just like a karatê but long range) being removed for a minicrit for some reason
@@quakethedoombringer YES EXACTLY THANK YOU
EVEN UBERCHARGE DOESN'T COMPLETELY NEGATE A SNIPER
SNIPER STRAIGHT UP NEEDS A NERF.
My suggestions:
1. Minimum damage nerf to 37 (111 quickscope), requiring more hardscoping to instakill even a light class, enforcing the tunnel vision downside more. Also encourages SMG use for close range, and finishing off quickscopes.
2. 2 second hard reload, granting a higher punishment for missing your shot. Also slows the Sniper down so he doesn't keep blasting people's heads off one after another. You have to choose your targets.
3. Machina Tracers on ALL rifles. This lets people see where a Sniper is easier, so they can more easily avoid them or find them. Machina gets an extra .5 second reload to offset the "buff" (but maybe remove the "on full charge" part on the damage)
4. Reduce the ammo count to 10. Forces the Sniper to move for ammo packs more, reducing his active time, allowing for more pushes.
I also have some nerfs/changes for specific weapons, but I don't have time to type them.
Tfw you can finally tell people "Fish sent me" again.
I like Sydney Sleeper because I can't hit headshots anyway
I've been waiting for this episode, and I've gotta admit, this was very insightful. The Sydney Sleeper will still be my favourite sniper overall, but sometimes it's nice to hear a truly critical opinion on it. Thank you, Fish!
UK
When i used this weapon a lot it was because i didnt expect as much from myself in terms of impact which made me calmer and play better. Dont know if anyone else has a weapon that does this for them too, but i find their is a sweet spot where a weapon is just bad enough to calm me, but still no frustratingly terrible feeling
the hit man for mr
This, i always use out of the meat but not really bad guns in games like csgo where i run stuff lilke thompson, it doesnt tilt me when i lose because im using a silly gun but its not frustratingly bad.
Same reason I often choose to play battle engie on offense. It's deliberately sub-optimal so if I do poorly it's not a huge deal, but it's just good enough to reward smart play.
Sleeper is kind of a 'u-huh, don't advance, back off' gun as well. Because when you get covered in Jarate, you don't really want to advance into enemies.
But still that is achieved better by a headshot, which either puts them on low health, making them back off to heal, or kills them outright. I guess it can help Snipers who cannot headshot reliably yet to fulfill that purpose.
Such a weird gun, which sucks, because i love the design.
This is not a BWA this is Sydney Sleeper Cannot Headshot The Video :--/
Even if I die on this hill, I’ll still defend that the sydney is the most balanced rifle
Edit: the reason why is because
1. no bullshit quickscopes
2. you actually weaken with proximity
3. Kills actually feel rewarding
It also happens to be the only "support" primary the supposed "support" class has.
may i recommend the hitman's heatmaker?
@@randomuser2975 heatmaker doesn’t really change a lot of things, you still do the same things
I agree, the problem with the sleeper is that it's a balanced weapon in a broken slot, having said that it could still do with a buff to it's karate duration, as is it's simply ridiculous that the support application is so little when pretty much every way to minicrit easily is pretty cheap all things considered
The sleeper is a very supportive weapon, but it just doesn’t let you KILL the bastich, rather than doing your day-to-day of making brain matter hit the wall
Ah yes, the primary weapon of my favourite subclass: the Piss Sniper
1:14
Just wanna praise you for this transition, absolutely gorgeous editing
Seeing the Sydney Sleeper in a bad weapon academy is hilarious, this weapon is phenomenal if you can use it right
just like any weapon besides the gas passer
You mean like stock?
So is stock, the bazaar bargain, the machina, the heatmaker, hell even the huntsman. It's not that it's ineffective it's that it's outclassed by every other option except for the classic (big woop)
@Turquoise It's a support gun. If you're at all familiar with Overwatch, it's kinda like the way you play Zenyatta's Discord orbs - in lower skill/uncoordinated pubs, you just look at whoever your team is most immediately attempting to beat up and shoot them so that they explode from suddenly taking minicrits, and in more coordinated teams with voice you call out who you're gonna tag so that your team can focus them down. It's great in that way for making sure that priority enemies end up dead.
disclaimer that I haven't watched the video yet, in case Fish says all this lmao
@@WakiTheCroc Or... you just kill that person with a headshot with any of the other rifles or the huntsman and you achieve the exact same result more than likely faster than with the sleeper just pissing on them
My grandma had a old saying that was damn near her Catchphrase. "Better pissed off then Pissed on" I wanna a Description tag and put on my Sleeper "Better pissed off then pissed on? Well now your both
Definitely one of the most contentious weapons on this show, have definitely put many hours into this rifle and I love it.
being fully honest, I like using the Sleeper because your enemies dying in a cloud of piss is objectively hilarious, even if functionally useless.
I've loved these kinds of videos for so long, Fish. Keep up the good work!
I see this weapon simply as "faster charge up, but no headshots" and everything else is just a bonus.
I used it back when i couldn't hit head shots.
I honestly never knew you could extinguish teammates with the sydney sleeper lol, good to know
still more balanced than anything sniper else has in his kit. also makes me feel less like a fun ruining asshole when I play sniper
Cry
@@didjahoon5520 how about you go cry, hm?
I said you not me, to dumb to follow those instructions or what
Sniper is a *support* class for a reason
Also I remember the headshot causes a splash that narrators all enemies surrounding the target
It doesn't.
@@bynightfall_4516 It used to, then they removed it.
The faster charge time, no tracers, and means to mark enemies is perfect in ONE scenario: when paired with the cozy camper, you become the most EVIL person on any KotH_Slasher for being able to camp the underworld.
I get regular death threats and become almost as hated as the BOTS whenever I do it
NOOO This is my favorite! It's the sniper where you can go for nutshots without sacrificing damage when did they change that!?
They didn't
@@vyor8837 oh i thought i heard they added minicrits to headshots.
@@codyxvasco592 they did that too. Minicrits on headshot and full bodyshot damage, full charge is still 150.
@@vyor8837 Pardon me for not trying to research myself, but does that mean headshot damage and bodyshot damage are equal or no?
@@codyxvasco592 all headshots give is a minicrit.
What if Sniper rifles dealt mini-crits on headshots while below half charge and normal crits above half charge?
That's actually such a good way to balance sniper. Not one class was designed around a player having thousands of hours worth of playtime on it, and this heavily lowers the skill ceiling for most snipers, encouraging a slower and more passive playstyle
I think thats a decent idea. But I still would prefer slight damage fall off.
Quickscopers who singlehandedly shut down the entire enemy team: "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!! THAT IS UNFAIR!!!!"
@@Soapromancer Sniper would still be the most effective class at long range. They would just be slightly less powerful. TF2 is balanced around much shorter ranged engagements than most FPS games. But sniper has the range of snipers from FPS games balanced around longer ranges for even their shortest range classes. The extreme power at range is a huge problem for map designers. Open maps are fun for high mobility classes and just in general. But you can't make super open maps because you have to balance against sniper. A little damage fall off would go a long way to fixing this issue. Again I think it would only need to be a very mild amount of fall off only applying at quite long ranges.
11:03 The pyro at the right stupidly holding m1 and nothing else while the heavy can't do anything. It cracks me up.
I miss when this thing had the Jarate explosion. It was the entire reason I used the Sleeper, and even bought a strange one. Then Meet Your Match removed the piss-bomb effect, killing the entire reason this thing ever existed.
You know what's funny? The Sydney Sleeper and the Classic both feel like they should have been stock weapons. The Sleeper is purely a support weapon and fills that role well... but is sadly outclassed by the Jarate when enemies are close. However, the weapon has to be fully charged to instantly drop Medics and that can still feel like a while even with the reduced charge time. The Classic needing to fully charge to crit feels like it's more fair to who ever gets on the receiving end of it because of how long you have to charge for.
The point trying to be made: Snipers being able to instantly get a 150 crit upon scoping in is one of the things that makes a decent Sniper so oppressive to play against. The fact that the Sniper can get that damage at any range means even sneaking up to them is bit of a gamble if they catch you. Those other weapons having to fully charge to do high damage makes them seem more fair to play against for other players.
The biggest issue with sniper is there is zero punishment for a sniper missing for most of the time.
@@lefishe5845 At one point, had this thought: What if all of the Sniper's rifles weren't hitscan but instead just a fast moving projectile?
Obviously, it'd have to be immune to airblast and the Short Circuit is fine because fast projectiles have a habit of getting through its secondary fire without getting deleted. Even if that was fixed, it'd still be fine.
Also, not sure how fast. Maybe a little faster than the Huntsman's arrows? Either way, at that point it'd be possible to give a visual effect to the rounds that players can see and an audio effect when it passes by them. Both would give some form of feedback on whether what ever they did to try to throw off the Sniper's aim actually did something.
Named mine "How to extract salt 101" when i was a new player
I've been waiting since the classic for you to cover this weapon. Twas worth the wait
babe wake up, new episode of bad weapon academy dropped
I've actually gotten a ton of use of this playing class wars randomizer. Maybe its just upward but there are some great ways to bodyshot without ever being seen.
HOW DARE YOU PUT SUCH A GOOD WEAPON IN BAD WEAPON ACADEMY ?????
My crutch rifle is apparently bad... How can I continue living now?
I like it for the oops all piss loadout.
Hey Fish thanks for uploading another bad weapon academy, your video legitimately brings me Joy even thou I don't play TF2, Maybe because I like the weapons and characters aesthetic. But regardless Keep it up man, Much love brother, Matsala.
Same, but i actually got into TF2 because of watching videos about it.
I’m surprised you didn’t mention that this weapon is banned in competitive (aside from the future of BWA video from 3 years ago), and didn’t try to rebalance it to no longer be banned like the steak, parachute, and gass passer. But honestly, the only way to make it unbanned is to rework minicrits to have falloff, because removing Jarate from this gun removes the thing people use it for in the first place.
I'm pretty sure the problem with the weapon in competitive is that bodyshots are easier to get because of the charge rate and less enemy bodies to shield Medics in 6s. Plenty of the game's mechanics are not compatible with some competitive formats, and that's okay.
I’m glad people still like it.
I actually still love the Your Eternal Reward. Learning it has been really really fun.
I haven’t started the vid yet but unironically the best use I’ve found for the Sleeper is in Vs. Saxton Hale. One target to shoot at means you don’t have to hard scope, and the nature of the mode means your collective team gets way more benefit from the free minicrits than you would with just headshots. I’ve straight up carried teams with the Sleeper
My opinion on the Sleeper comes down to a core playstyle shift,
starting with a full reassessment of where you're putting your crosshair, yourself, and the battle you're trying to contribute to.
It's solidly a support tool, unfortunately in the position of a primary and apparently means to be paired with jar and melee, but also works successfully with smgs.
So positioning is limited from flanks and controlling vantages, mainly by sniper duels which you're now ill prepared for, putting you in the meat of the fight or at least hugging close to the team. Your targets won't likely be dying from you, so where you aim is shifted from tricky picks to where your team mates are already firing, namely soldier and demo but also scout.
It's effectively filling that weird middle ground between huntsman and the other rifles, where you keep mobile with last second decisions but also have the slight advantage of using a hitscan.
The weaknesses are exacerbated by the utility of other rifles being able to simply put down a target rather than help a stray rocket do it's job better, but its more viable at closer, harder-to-hit ranges because you're no longer reliant on just headshots. Now you rely on the team and your own game sense to keep danger at bay. Arguably you do normally anyway but that's negligible with most sniper players.
Plus, it's much easier to use the paired jarate for basically anything at this mid range since you're already close enough and don't need to waste time running up on the team first.
Yes! Support sniper is a really fun subclass once you get the hang of it
This has basically been the only sniper I use when I feel like being helpful to the team, so basically always. Also helpful since I suck at getting headshots.
The Sydney Sleeper is a weapon that suffers from the devs not having a clear picture of what it's supposed to do. Originally, all it did was sacrifice headshots for the ability to apply Jarate on any hit over 50% charge. It also originally could randomly crit, but that was quickly removed within just over a week of its initial release. When the Hatless Update came around, the charge rate was buffed by 25%. Gun Mettle gave this weapon another buff, removing the 50% charge requirement for the Jarate effect, and Meet Your Match gave it the Explosive Jarate effect on headshot or full charge and the ability to extinguish your teammates.
And then came the March 28 2018 patch which nerfed this thing into the ground. Honestly, this was unnecessary, the Sydney Sleeper was always a weaker choice than stock simply because Sniper is more efficient when he can just eliminate targets outright, but the Sleeper did have exactly one situation where it was flat-out an upgrade - med picks in 6s, as being able to apply Jarate on an enemy medic at any range makes them easy to eliminate during a coordinated push in a high-mobility format. Honestly, the weapon was banned in 6s anyway, I don't get why VALVe catered to their demands when the 6s format has weapon banlists.
So yeah... this thing went from the intended bodyshot rifle, to an actual ranged support weapon, and then to a lame duck. Honestly, the way I would fix it is to revert it back to its Meet Your Match stats and tell the 6s players to just keep it on the banlist.
From the sound of things, including this video, the Sydney Sleeper is one of those weapons that's more balanced towards MvM. But one thing they should definitely do is fix the bug with the extinguish shots.
It apparently also used to be the go-to for snipers who preferred bodyshots before the Machina came along.
But I like the funneh piss gun!
It makes me role play as an Splatoon character!
As someone who *despises* quickscopes, this weapon is super fun to use as an alternative
I quick scope with it an then use the SMG for the minicrits. It's not good just fun
This is some well-researched feedback that valve will enthusiastically ignore.
I see this weapon as a support weapon that says "I don't trust my aim so I'm picking a gun that will help my team if I can't hit my headshots. And I'm on coms"
I thought the headshots of the Sydney sleeper spread jarate in a radius?
It used to. It's not the case anymore.
I feel like, if they just buffed the piss duration on this thing, it would actually be a pretty good support tool on a class not generally known for its support capabilities. As it stands now though, it's just too brief for me to consider it a viable support option.
even making it so the headshots deal full duration(quickscopes and full charge included) would make the Sydney Sleeper better. Also the extinguish should be a unscoped and scoped ability.
I remember the Sleeper having aOE jarate blasts, would getting that back be a good thing, as in balanced? maybe aoe on headshots?
I see people using the Sidney Sleeper and the classic a lot but one thing I never see getting used is the hitman's heatmaker.
Finally the Sydney sleeper. I thought you already made this but it was another YT
It was a long time coming, Fish, but I'm glad you took your time with this one. I'd say the change you proposed (and currently implemented on your server) is a very reasonable one.
I do have a side question, though. At one point, the Sydney Sleeper was able to do something similar to explosive headshots and coat everyone nearby in Jarate, not just the target. I'm guessing the reason it was removed was because it was too strong of a buff, effectively rendering Jarate itself obsolete - do you agree, or is there more to it than that? And have you considered implementing the same thing on your server?
P.S.: Bison next, maybe?
Fish, I'm speechless. You just haaaaad to shit on the piss rifle. The one fucking thing you seemingly forgot to mention in the whole video is player skill level.
Not everyone is a Pro MGE sniper main with an 85% headshot rate, as a matter of fact most snipers you have ever met in servers miss more than half their shots on average. And due to how sniper mentality pushes for scoring headshots, most don't bother bodyshoting for the most part. That's where the Sydney Sleeper shines: even if you suck at scoring headshots, you're still contributing, dealing heavy damage and scoring kills via bodyshots, which you will hit a lot of shots since you're not forced to aim for the head, but any part of the body, which in turn you'll hit a lot more shots since it's easier.
Accuracy is the one stat never talked about with rifles in TF2, because it's not a stat in-game, but a stat of the player. Yes, it can be improved, but some hit walls and can't get past that level. And no, no amount of dude gymbro talk of "YOU CAN DO IT" and "BELIEVE IN YOURSELF" is gonna fix that. Everyone can run, but not everyone can run a marathon.
Lesson of the day kids is to appreciate Sydney Sleeper snipers, because they may not be the best, but they are trying their best, which speaks a lot more than tryharding.
it’s not that deep just hit your shots lol
He explicitly mentions that it's a decent choice for low skilled snipers with the notable draw back of making it harder to counter enemy snipers.
FINALLY HOLY SHIT, you don't know how LONG i've been waiting for this video, thank you thank you thank you 🙏🙏🙏❤️❤️❤️ Buckling up to learn how to use the pee gun properly.
I've seen some people rebalance the sleeper in similar ways you have, but with jarate explosions that coat multiple people on headshot and full charge.
Before they "buffed" it by changing no headshots at all to at least doing minicrit damage, the rifle was actually a much more refined design. Still terrible, don't get me wrong, but at least it was clear from the get go that you shouldn't go for headshots. Now it's just a weird mishmash of badly blended stats.
Back then didn’t you still go for headshots due to the gun just spawning a jarate splash?
Yes but you also get it for a full charge
@@sud1881 Not in its initial form, that splash thing was added somewhere later and then subsequently removed again. In its first form, there was no charge bonus, Jarate applied independently of charge rate, and it could penetrate players.
If I was redesigning this thing, I'd go with GREATLY reduced damage balanced out by "explosive" headshots that spreads Jarate to nearby enemies. Now it's a full-blown support weapon!
Or alternatively... let the rifle apply 1.5 seconds of Garate from un-scoped shots. Enough time to combo with the bushwaka, allowing Sniper to operate as a bizarre piss-based melee sublass.
It used to have that first thing
I personally like this weapon, because I struggle with hitting headshots (I have bad hand-eye coordination, and yes I have tried to improve), so a body shot weapon that doesn’t reveal my position is better for me.
10:16 "some of them are so good you may as well pick a different class."
in that case, you'd be better off finding a new server. you're gonna have a bad time going against a good enemy sniper.
Pee Rifle stronk 💪
Imo, the Machina could so easily be ballanced with a small tweak: make it so the damage bonus ONLY applies when you hit a collateral, and ONLY on the 2nd+ targets, not the first
Edit: another simple idea to ballance Sniper as a whole would be to add a magazine to it. 5 in the mag, 20 reserve. Just a short ~3 sec to force the sniper off his line, so he cant just LOCK THE MAP DOWN FOREVER( when near a dispenser)
I guess the main benefit of the sydney sleeper is mememing with a piss sniper build
Regarding that post-credits clip, the guy's war paint actually was glitched; it normally doesn't look like that.
as someone who doesn't even play TF2 I really enjoy these videos thanks for the fun content
I liked its old stat of explosive jarate on enemies if you hit a heatshot on one of them. It was pretty useful in maps with chokepoints.
The Sydney sleeper is good in Man vs machine the explosions defuffs all surrounding enemies
That “1 second of reduced Jarate cooldown” is completely pointless in pubs but in the community mode Zombie Escape the meta is running sleeper+Jarate so the stat goes from useless to the single best part about the weapon.
Also, jarate in vsh has it's uses. Reducing Hale rage is very useful against funny Engineer, and a nice bonus on the other bosses
This belongs in an "Overshadowed Weapon Academy" series.
You know, like Spy's knives, Medic's syringe guns -- good weapons that aren't Kunai/Crossbow.
Because I say: the Sydney Sleeper is the best Sniper Rifle because it has reduced kick rates.
Honestly i was worried how you were going to do this video. I know you love headshoting and despise bodyshots a lot in streams so i was worried you were going to be like, this gun sucks! However i was wrong, you showed you kept your bias at bay. I honestly thought you were going to be like, this weapon does this OR you can just headshot them with the regular sniper file and just kill them. This weapon also does this, OR you can just headshot them with the regular sniper rifle and just kill them. I'm honestly happy to see you broke down this weapon logically, went through its ups and down, and you even showed moments of genuinely having fun with it in the sniper combo part which says hey this weapon is bad but you can still have fun.
Overall this video was well done, high quality and I found it very enjoyable to watch, good job fish.
Headshot kills with this weapon should cause a jarate detonation and apply jarate to nearby enemies based on charge and extinguish teammates.
Finally! Been waiting for this one. One of my favorite snipers in the game. (What? Who doesn’t like headshotting someone and covering them in piss with the same action?)
As someone who routinely uses the Sydney Sniper, I have a few points;
1) I find it pairs much better with Jarate than you give it credit for. Yes, Jarate is better at being Jarate, but it's also on a long cooldown and you'll want it in a large number of situations. Having a weapon that can decrease said cooldown while simultaneously adding support ability from well outside the Jarate's effective range is very helpful.
2) The Sydney Sleeper isn't the weapon for Snipers who can't headshot so much as it's the weapon for Snipers who can't quickscope. If you're used to hardscoping regardless, the increase in charge rate makes a big difference, and the minicrit headshots can still drop most classes.
3) The Sleeper really shines when used to counter Sentry Guns. The extra charge rate lets you tear down sentries much faster, and the normal downsides are completely negated since sentries can't be headshot regardless.
Fish why’d you sleep on this for so long?
Two seconds is a long time when you're already under fire.
You don't give anyone time to react, you swing trades that are already in progress
I love the piss gun
Finally I waited months for this
Curious to how you will see the quickfix,people say its bad but i see it as an underrated weapon thats underutilized.
People use it to pocket people but that’s not how it’s supposed to be used imo, it’s meant to keep all your teammates alive and heal them all in a very short amount of time
@@mrgodzillaraptors8632 using it with the overdose made being medic 50% less annoying
True,while you can still pocket with its extra healing its not its mechanic.
the most underrated thing about the quickfix is the ubercharge,while your no longer invisble,provides MASSIVE heal rate along with no knockback during charge
if you use it with soldier banners,primarly the Battalion's Backup you can use quickfix to its fullest potential.
@@mrgodzillaraptors8632 I use it that way and it's my absolute favourite as a pub medic, often I'll find it makes more of a difference on defence since keeping the team alive often means more than building uber for counter ubers. The quick bursts of mega healing is also super useful since by juggling targets you can save a whole group from something that should have killed them rather than just one target with a regular uber, since even if you do juggle a regular uber your teammates can still get easily picked off, yet if they're quickly burst back up to full health rather than just being invulnerable for a couple seconds and still being low health. Basically a quick fix medic can counter ubers by allowing his team to keep the pressure on and making it much harder for an enemy medic to build a full uber in the first place.
Nobody calls it bad and it isn't underrated, it's just that people incorrectly use it for pocketing
Before I watch the video. I don't think the Sydney Sleeper is that bad of a weapon. The change from a damage dealer to a support-based primary is how the weapon was balanced, and it does the job extremely well and is still capable of killing 8/9 classes (excluding overheal) with a full charged headshot as we saw in the first clip with that Demoman. I think the reason why people see it as a bad weapon is the fact it can't kill as easily, or in my opinion, Sniper mains can't get a frag montage with it. But the +25% faster charge rate, and the jarate on hit, plus the explosive headshot to apply jarate to everyone nearby, makes it a pretty nasty threat that it's even banned in comp for those reasons. I don't think the weapon is bad, are there better options? Yes of course, but the same can be said for a lot of weapons. Is the Shahansha good? Not really, stock is just better most of the time and if you're running jarate or carbine then Bushwacka is the best choice. Does that mean it's a bad melee? No, it does its job as advertised and nothing more
It doesn't apply it to groups anymore
Well you are definitely right on you not watching the video
@@kerzid not every person playing sniper can consistently get headshots nor is a sniper irl only meant to hit his targets in the head. This whole mentality that a sniper rifle should be mainly used for headshots is not correct nor should be forced upon players in videogames. Its a gun meant to hit people from far away, regardless of how you use it and how you get kills with it.
The problem is it doesn't do that, it only rewards hitting targets with extra for follow up damage, damage that would not be needed if you just used any other weapon in the class
You can tell how sniper is a bs class by the fact that the Sidney Sleeper and The Classic, which were basically designed to be a straight upgrade from stock, the first actually giving a reason to bodyshot and the second removing sniper's main weakness which is tunnel vision, are considered BAD weapons simply because sweaty basement dweller sniper mains with 5k hours put in the game can't kill 5 out of 9 classes with a quickscope 0.5 seconds after seeing them.
I adore this thing. I use it with the Jarate, which I throw it as soon as I see any sort of firefight happening within range, and Bushwacka to be a horrifying support sniper and kill light classes VERY quickly. Also a quickscoped shot followed by a few unscoped shots is quite effective for killing overhealed people.
Just goes to show that the Jarate (and Mad Milk) need a small nerf, mostly in increasing their recharge time from 20 seconds to 30.
Make the Jarate charge based on damage output, maybe 600 damage.
Plus it's funny to see the enemy try to run away cause they know a sniper is now there, ready to piss them off.
Sydney Sleeper is the balanced sniper rifle
love the pun
@@Thomas90012 I love dad jokes and puns, even if I'm not a dad myself
@@rockowlgamer631Ya don’t need to be a dad to get the joke 😂