How Hodinkee’s $40M Gamble Crumbled: Is This The End?
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
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Turns out the $6,000 travel clock and articles about wife sharing didn't retain their audience. Weird.
whoa- when did the wife sharing begin?? i hated the "driving back to grab the GMT Master even though my wife needed to be rushed to the hospital to deliver a baby!" stupid cringe- the 'wife sharing' one i guess i missed (even lower)
@@sskumariyer I think it was something like: 'If you can swap watches with someone, why not swap wives'. Crazy
waaaait what?!!
😂
That article is awesome.
The problem with Hodinkee/LVMH is that they thought the weirdos who buy their overpriced fashion and leather goods were like the people who collect watches. We are not them.
Apparently they somehow managed to find 96 people with $6000 to spend on that travel clock.
There is no problem with LVMH, that’s why the owner is literally the richest man in the world. But I’m sure you know better than him about Busines…
@@duncanhamilton5841i dont think they ever sold. They were just taken down
LVMH owns plenty of successful and profitable watch companies. WTF are you talking about
To the white knights who somehow feel it's their duty to defend the honor of LVMH....you missed the point. There are plenty of fools to buy their over priced shlock. In fact, it's a great business model. Watch collectors are not necessarily the same type of customer.
Chief editor Jack Forster probably saw what was coming and decided to abandon the ship in 2022.
Jack was the sole bright spot @ the Dink tbh; not sure he made the right move though- haven't heard much from him since he's moved over to Govberg / Watchbox. Tim Mosso is their guy- what's Jack even doing there? At the Dink at least we used to get videos and articles from him. Nothing now.
I miss Jacks videos. They were great.
I was shocked when he went
Jack is a fraud
@@BlackdiamondWIS the whole business is a fraud
The Hoodinkee guys remind me of the people I used to work with in nyc. NYC hustlers who bit off more than they can chew. Some of them made it out alive and some lost everything.
Like all the mergers its not the C suite who get hosed, its the employees who made the places attractive takeover targets.
I am afraid the Teddy Baldassare is headed in the same direction: from a grass roots, do it your self watch enthusiasts site to a bricks and mortar and on line watch AD for new watches, and his videos are beginning to seem more like promos for the watches featured in his stores rather than an objective criticism and in depth investigations of watches.
Yep. He’ll be back to only making videos once his cash runs out. Opening a brick ‘n mortar store is crazy but even crazier in Cleveland.
@@TTrq01Yes, that one floored me. However, I'm under the suspicion it's being financed by Mr. Mattel, err Mr. Wonderful himself.
Thats all he has in his videos for the longest time 10 best watches for Yada yada ohhh and I sell every single one so shop with me. I've mentioned numerous times in his comment section about it and it's deleted Instantly everytime
@@TTrq01 An annoying little twerp, who has wrist made for Casio Baby-G's, Cleveland is a great place for him, and was where he could afford a lease...NYC would have eaten him alive. He's also lucky to have Kevin O’Leary show up on his videos to play "lets buy a collection."
@@romanmichaelhamilton8729 he has publicly stated that rumor is false. But who really knows right? Someone must be backing him.
that was a wild ride, hadn't realised C&C had let go of all those experienced technicians - especially when they're the guys who can tell you how much a watch is worth on examination
Crown and Caliber was a fantastic business to buy and sell watches from before Hodinkie. THEN I tried to do business with them a third time and it was a nightmare. Sent them 2 watched after agreeing on a sale price. After they received them they backed out completely. Took me a month to get them to ship them back. I had to buy an email list and email the upper management of Hodinkie before I could get any info on my watches. One was lost and the insurance claim took 2 months. Hodinkie is hot garbage.
You serious your watch went "missing" thats some TPG game they're playing now
I had a similar experience with my watch getting rejected, even though it was flawless. It took forever to get my watch back but I didn't have to email managment.
@@reesebroekhoven3962 The carrier lost it after Hodinkie sent it back. Hodinkie had to file the claim with UPS. That was also a nightmare getting them to follow up with UPS.
Thank god Ben grabbed a Le Mans Daytona before they were discontinued.
I'm sure they took a suitably compensatory amount of money out of the business before it was trashed.
@@SampleTracks2224yea, Ben is easily worth 8 figures post-LVMH sale. It’s all gravy from here.
This is the problem with scaling a website into a marketplace. They got caught with their hand in the cookie jar, so to speak, and I agree with your assessment that they mistook the internet traffic as a “following”. People aren’t dumb, not matter how slick your videos are cut. We know a promo when we see one.
Maybe John Mayer will bail them out
Haha I actually thought the same thing. Needs someone wealthy and genuinely a watch geek to jump in there. Maybe John and Ed Sheeran can take it over together lol
John mayer is a partner/investor in hodinkee,
Yea maybe for 51% of the company
Or Tom Brady. Think he also invested in Hodinkee,
@@Venmanayanhe already was
Some times, founders of establishments with great motives lose their way, very often and Ben may have fell victim to that. Recently, he has been more present in reaching out to the consumer base and trying to go back to his roots. After listening to a few presentations of his, such as the segment on A.P and the passing CEO, Ben does not hide the fact that it is a business and in that segment, there were discussions on strategies that were used to make A.P main stream. Hodinkee took on the same task, expansionary strategy to reach a whole new audience and I think this is where the conflict of interest started; Talking watches with Bethany Franklin, Athletes that in my opinion were not Hodinkee's definition of collectors. Their strategy to go main stream alienated the die hard base which is almost all of Hodinkee from what I sense. Recently, there was another fluffy segment on Watches and Fashion. I mean it is a business, strategies such as the ones mentioned will have to be used but I guess better calculated
Used to work at Chrono24 in NYC and had some friends who were recently laid off at Hodinkee. Really sad to hear how the folks at C&C were treated. They were the first ones to go during the layoffs and the general office culture was incredibly toxic. Not a fan of Ben and how he treated the majority of his employees. Which is a bummer because for a second they had something special.
Can you share some stories of what Ben did?
Yeah nothing but a bunch of cornball elitists
@@rhine2y6y Yeah, I believe he really served us the true emotional story for a few years, that got us hooked. Plus he had a few genuinely interesting people by his side, James, Jack, Cara, good storytelling, great photography, exceptional guests. He tried to capitalise heavily on Hodinkee and got burned. Usually people who have a genuine interest in horology are not the most stupid of the bunch a saw that coming. He got what he deserved. You can find me more genuine (maybe) people on YT and other platforms.
The problem with the Timeteller shop is that nearly all of the watches featured are sold. Very few available for sale. Better to put sold watches in a 'sold' section. I grew tired of clicking through page after page of sold/unavailable watches.
The timeteller , no inventory no vision in the business. He sells plastic watches for youngsters
Well you can see from Ben he does not gaf. As long as he gets to dress and wear nice watches and mingle with important people while driving his Porsche then life is good.
Ben checked out a long time ago.
Used to buy and sell thru Crown n Caliber, They were great. Hodinkee ruined them. If you sell, they only offer Store credit now not cash sale. Plus prices have stayed high. Too bad !!! Ruined alot of Crown n Calibers business.
and your c&c gift card only works there and not with hodinkee, which makes no sense. i can use a gap gift card at all of their stores...
My bigger issue of Hodinkee is they turned more into a fashion site with little about horology. I could care less about what to pair my watch with. This caused me to not frequent the site as much. I think crown and caliber was more a victim of the sharp rise and fall of the watch market during 2021 and into early 2022.
yes you are rigt. watces in teh wilde with cole was great, then they did it with malaik and it was so bad. like you said, dont care about fashion with watches
I just went to your online shop. I don't want to see watches that are sold out. You should remove them from your website, it really makes browsing a pain in the ass and makes it seem like a generic shopify garbage website. Also, why can I only view 6 at a time?
Hope you’re feeling better this week 🙌🏻
Why do all of these watch companies sound the same? crown and caliber. worn and wound. pride and pinion
Because they’re run by hacks with zero creativity or personal integrity.
Everybody thinks that resellers care about the price. They don’t, they only care about turnover. They don’t care if they make 300% profit on every watch they sell if it takes them 10 years to sell a watch. They much rather make 1% profit and sell it the day they get it.
I have a watch business, a very small one, I sell wartch straps. I think the mistake these people made was they built their business based on good times, when sales were just soaring and over-valued.
They didnt build for the bad times. To build for bad times you'd have a buisness model where you buy watches wholesale from the manufacturer and sell retail. Not buy from flippers and markup and resell. Because this model only works in a broken, bubble market where used prices are higher than retail.
There's a fine line between liking and living a life of elevated taste and arrogant snobbery. Don't know the difference? Go to an official Firearms Show/Exhibit, visit the Weatherby booth and then visit the Rigby booth 😅
I've purchased watches from C&C, Watchbox, and Bob's and there is no question C&C has the best purchase program and customer experience out of the three. However, recently I had a warranty issue with a Seamaster I bought from them and it was virtually impossible to get anyone on the phone. It didn't used to be that way so this video explains a lot. There was no one to answer the phone.
Hodinkee’s beginning of their end started with Jack Forster leaving. My Mrs sold a watch to Hodinkee and they sent it back when they realized the over paid to get her watch, they claimed it wasn’t running well, they’re a very sketchy outfit. Good luck getting a human voice at crown and calibre. Aka Mr Valjoux
I still like Hodeinkee more than you!!! But when they start charging $50 shipping for a $35 magazine!!! They lost me….
The magazine was great....when before the pandemic I could pick it up for free at the executive terminal. Too much fluff in there for $35.
Fascinating story, TTT, thanks for laying it all out there in a clear and concise manner!
Ben is a sell out. He’s not a watch enthusiast, he’s an opportunist.
Article is about 6 months late, honestly Hodinkee's quality took a dramatic turn for the better in recent months (Ben writing and recording more is helping for sure) and the new team of editors feel like a return to the glory days. The business is not booming, but as you note the market really determined that (I mean look at the 1 year watchcharts trend). When you cut a significant part of the workforce, you expect operations to fall apart. Doesn't feel that way, and I wouldn't be surprised if things are looking a lot better at this moment.
I enjoyed watching Hodinkee. Their influence on the watch industry was massive.
But it sounds like they bit the hand that feeds them. Then they massively missed when the bubble was going to burst.
This was going to happen eventually as people began to spend money going on vacations, eating out among other things. The cost of these watches were simply absurd.
Yes, exactly this.
As a watch lover before,
It’s good to see those who boost the watch price and availability to get what they deserve.
Solid take on Hodinkee. I was over their site once Jack and Cole left. Seems like most everyone else was too.
Cole left for a great job at Tudor. Can't faul that
@9:19 - You know who does this too? Delray Watch. And they seem to be liquidating watches as well...
the delray guy comes off as so snooty
Hodinkee's attempted money grab with C&C has lost it a tremendous amount of credibility in the enthusiast watch community.
once Hodinkee stopped being journalists and turned commercial, it was likely something like this would happen
To be correct, the panda Daytonas were NOT going for an average of 56k. They might have been listed for that on CH24 (which is even more inflated due to the fees the platform takes), but almost nobody moved them at that price point. Real trades were done in the 40s.
With all due respect, I remember advising Brandon Menancio (on his UA-cam channel), not to give up on his own enterprise, He was a true gem but fade away at Hodinkee...
Haha. My gateway drug was the seiko you hate. Samurai
Same here, I had 4,now I have 2
I don't remember him hating it just didn't like how it wore.
I hope it is. I knew it was over when Jack Forster left to the Watchbox .
I miss the reviews and informational articles of the past. When they started retailing used watches. I noticed the prices were somewhat inflated. That’s when I knew being about collecting was a thing of the past.
As a casual Hodinkee fan what you describe explains how I have felt they have gone in the past couple of years. The content has become less interesting the ads and the push to buy tiresome. It would be good if they could get back on track but they are losing the faithful and casually interested I reckon.
Hodinkee was doomed the moment they went beyond selling an occasional co-designed watch
Alot of these kind of brands and resellers jumped on the Time Piece "gentlemans" promote an exagerated lifestyle. The problem for them is most of the people that can afford these kind of objects tend to know better.
any watch retailer is garbage. timeteller included
You are 100% right, as a watch lover since 12 I followed HODINKEE for many years. I stopped couple of years ago because of the snobs and unrelated watch posts. Such a shame...
when Jack Forster left, it became a watch marketplace, rather than a place for intellectual discussion about horology.
100% correct.
They were a bunch of watch snobs from the get go , pretentious douches
I think they focused on the higher end market in terms of what they sell. They really should focus on the sub $1500 watches for their collabs. 90% of the readers of their site can't afford a Rolex. When they can, they don't need the site anymore. It's a weird conundrum to be in.
Bro thank God your channel exist what would we do without your dump channel if Hodinkee goes out of business.
The name "Everything is Gay'" alone is worth subscribing to both of your channels. 2 subs in 10 seconds, well done 👏
Trying to think of any successful cases where online media acquired/expanded into retail and can only think of Cars & Bids. That's a tough business to make work if credibility is your supposedly your differentiator.
And Doug isn't selling cars, he just provides the platform/visibility for others to sell theirs.
Doug is also a smart biz guy that worked at porsche
Probably, like the pandemic rare plants craze, like Philodendron Pink Princess and spiritus-sancti, that commanded crazy prices and now some are available at big box stores and farmers markets for a few dollars, the watch craze has waned. I bought too many budget watches, but in the end having too many ends up being unhealthy.
So many watch channels seem to be by slow speaking guys that collect to compensate something missing in life. It’s easy to go down such a rabbit hole and compensate with addictive behaviors.
Hodinkee seems to have thought that this watch gold rush would last longer.
It seems now harder to sell a watch quickly on eBay and prices seem lower.
I purchased three watches from Crown & Caliber (pre-pandemic) when Patek World Timers could be purchased for $30k.
After Hodinkee bought them, I don't even visit their site anymore.
Which is a shame, because Crown & Caliber really stood behind their watches.
When their watchmaker couldn't fix an issue with one of the watches they sold me, they sent it to the manufacturer (out of warranty) and paid for it themselves.
I got the watch back 6 months after we agreed that they would send it for repair.
They included the invoice and the details of the repair work. They paid $8k for the repair! I'm sure they lost money on that sale.
Also the editorial talent has fallen off. Jack was amazing and they never should have invested in Danny Milton, who remarkably seems enamored with celebrity but not watches.
WatchBox has been executing this model at much higher caliber with much better editorial talent
With his enthusiasm for speaking on Hodinkee’s downfall I’m surprised he didn’t have some condiments to go with this presentation.😂
I don't get it. Hodinkee is a BUSINESS at the end of the day, I don't get the issue.
agreed. I have been a reader of Hodinkee almost since the beginning and still am today. but intuitively the change of direction started to be felt pretty immediately. there were simply fewer and fewer good articles. more puff and less content. again, luckily there are some good authors and proper journalism in today´s Hodinkee. but rarely. also they shouldn´t let Jack Forster go by any means.
it was the Travel Clock during the pandemic
Crown and Caliber was great to deal with before Hodinkee came in. I sold three watches with them, and they were not popular watch models--they were fast, efficient, transparent, and stood by their quotes. I'm glad I didn't do any more deals with them--I heard online that Hodinkee management ruined them.
I stopped following Hodinkee when their email communication became almost entirely about used watch sales. I tried to reconfigure my mailinglist settings but found out there was no way to suppress the useless overflow of offers
Oh, and its a good thing you don't have to hire anyone to attack commenters!
Hodinkee and a lot of other watch blogs started out as an informative source about watches and watch making. However, lately they've been acting more and more as sponsored cheerleaders who don't bite the hand that feeds them.
With Crown and Calibre, Hodinkee bought high, and now selling low. They should have followed the Homer Simpson method of investing, which is buy low, sell high. Simple.
They lost their way! Remember Rocky 3? They lost the EYE OF THE TIGER! 😂😊🎉
They got to go back to the beginning!!!
It became quickly obvious that Hodinkee had become a money grab about three years ago. As soon as that happened I stopped referring to them for anything except A Week On the Wrist articles.
Never invest money in "the cool kids". Luxury watches have no value. Anyone who isn't valuing their watches at $0 can't afford them and is just a gambler in a casino with extra layers of denial. Gamblers, Tulip bulb buyers, Day traders, NFT bros, and watch flippers are all the same thing and will be the ones faking it until they keep faking it.
It's become too focused on lightweight lifestyle articles by fluffy writers. Only a handful of genuine watch writers with decent knowledge remain. Ain't what it used to be, that's for sure.
I liked Hodinkee years ago. I thought that they provided interesting content that heightened my interest in watched. I must have moved on from watches sometime before the merger but I don’t blame people for feeling a little cold. That transition needs to be done carefully and transparently and it seems like Hodinkee failed to do so. The whole situation with the lease of a building they haven’t even occupied corks also show other factors that may have complicated Hodinkee’s financial existence. Add to it the Zillow-CarMax strategy of buying watches at the highest prices in the market and they must be in some pain. I hope they come out ahead and find a way to add value to their fan base.
Use to love Hodinkee, but they went woke, and now im not all that much interested in them
Toen Hodinkee met die hoogdravende wekker kwam - met erg rare prijs - werd al duidelijk dat het afstand had genomen van de liefhebbers.
I've found Hodinkee's encyclopedia like database very useful and entertaining. Wish them well in the future.
If C&C has cut all their technical staff, who is inspecting the watches they buy to make sure they are genuine?
Dare I say, is this the strategy of Teddy Baldassarre? I like the man though, very nice style. Interesting video. Sign of the times, COVID measures of throwing money at people backfired for Hodinkee.
I loved (past tense) Crown and Caliber! Have done a lot of business with them. Hodinkee ruined them. Now you have previously sold watches coming up in search results and I don't see any way to turn that off. I don't want to look at watches that are unavailable.
Love Ben Climer and loved Hodinkee until they started octopussing their focus in so many directions. I feel like they've lost their focus, their sincerity and passion which was the attraction.
This is not new.. Ben made a killing hyping up Universal back in the day when he owns a lot of them to flip. Another example is when they started selling new watches where you suddenly have articles about them and then links to purchase them at the end. This is just another step but with 2nd hand watches. Most of us who read him from the start no longer reads or go to the site, but might scroll pass their post on IG to see their pretty photos. Hodinkee for me is like a friend or cousin who you know but works for Amway, you always being sold on something..
Duuuude !! Im still waiting for Hodinkee to process a return of a watch that I purchased from them and arrived not working!! Has been 12 days, poor communication. Hodinkee no more !!
C. Ronaldo still has some money from bailing Chrono 24 out. T)
I think they'll continue to appeal to the watch-curious crowd. The audience who doesn't take it as seriously as us - collecting watches - those who conflate fashion, pop culture, and trends. That's cool for those folks, they do them. Maybe Hodinkee has identified that as a more prominent market. Makes sense. I'm curious Jory, why do you spend so much effort talking about hodinkee? I guess this type of content appeals to some of your subscribers? I personally don't care about hodinkee etc. I don't really care about that type of watch journalism in general Have you bought any watches recently? let's see a review!
I don't get what the big deal is. They're a VC-backed business that's trying to grow its user base. They also raised pre-2021 interest rate money like every other start-up. Also like every other start-up, they raised without being a profitable business. Now they need to show they can be profitable before they raise again. This is just them finding their feet as a larger more mainstream business.
I think you nailed it.
They want to all in in the grey market? Knowing that even the original manufacturer (like Rolex - AP - VC - Patek) will pump up the production and for all the history, all the hypes will eventually pass
From a business standpoint - sad to see people get laid off BUT from another angle realizing I need 4 folks for a section verses 12 people comes about when you realize I need four writers ✍️ that I can 110,000 each…verses 12 writers at 68K each. Better but less content - longer tutorials verse glorified blog posts.
well... hodinkee is partly owned by lvmh, so it might be their influence on the magazine to make it more "GQ" like. If you pay attention, most of their "how to wear it" series or whatever its called features models wearing lvmh brands... just their way to advertise. Plus, making it GQ like is more inline with lvmh's clientelle...i thought their talking watches series was cool, but i think the john mayer episode 2 was the last one i watched cuz they used to feature more "down to earth people" which we normal perople can relate to, but now they're just featuring uber rich people with the table covered in rolexes and pateks
Teddys prices are also too high. Someone even more self absorbed is Kevin. Two of them are terrible together. T)
I feel like certain grey markets should be left to the communities, not capitalists. Watches, bikes, hobby stuff, is not a business venture in my mind.
wow a 2019 soho retail location? for sure they sat on it initially due to the pandemic, i would think, but as the real estate market tanked in 2022 they were left holding the bag. it's typically not just one bad investment or over-spend that gets a business into trouble
That’s what happens when a business is subject to private (and then public) capital. Why do you think Ubers no longer offer a bottle of water?
I bought a watch from C&C before it got Hodunked. Had an issue with the movement, sent it back in and they fixed it right up. No questions asked. It says an awful lot about supposed “watch people” that they canned the watchmakers at their watch sales outlet, and everything it says about them is bad. (And that is not even saying anything about the increasingly obnoxious, self-important, ludicrous and just plain unreadable content on the content side of the business over the last couple of years.)
The idea of a platform where people can sell their watches and the site takes a % is a great idea... but whoever thought it was smart for them to actually buy assets themselves for the sake of resale.... I wouldn't invest in any more of their ideas....
Dude, your channel has grown so much since we chatted here on OG seiko cocktail back in time. Congrats!
Btw I like the glasses, would you share what are these? Tnx.
Whorology
Most things that start as grass roots turn out not to be. The more successful you are the quicker the change happens.
Yeah - but if I lived in the USA, I'd consider buying from you - but not Hodinkee, because I saw what they were selling and promoting. And the prices were eye-watering.
LVMH always surprise me. They release more garbage than everyone else combined but are still around. I think Hodinkee is established enough now and well backed that it will be fine. C&C was a big misstep though.
You know it's really sad for me is, I just discovered Hoodinkee. Listening to their podcast from the beginning and listening to episodes today you can tell that the passion is gone. Their articles are lackluster at best, and I'm really just so disappointed.
I can tell you this… i fucked crown and caliber on a blue dial BB 41 they paid $2750 from me and sold my serial number for $1850, love it!!
Bringing golf into HODINKEE was plain weird
I used to follow Hodinkee before they started selling some overpriced junk. After they acquired C & C, I just thought right or wrong all their watches are now overpriced.
Over the years I'd heard a lot of talk about Hodinkee but hadn't used it. After a couple of visits I reckon they were getting paid per word so I've not been back.
i miss nathan - the guy who used to do the video content for crown & caliber. if nathan's doing content some place else now, please let me know.
What's the name of the strap on your SKX? Looks killer
I'm new to the watch scene, but this feels like slow death Cracked has been dying for years.