I don't see how making Palpatine sympathetic would be beneficial to his character. If anything it will take away from his character and what made him iconic to begin with. Not every villain has to be a sympathetic.
@@emberfist8347 he was kinda an anti-hero actually, he's kinda like that first anime villain that launches the hero on his journey but wasn't that much of a villain after all, he was only decent as villain in the first Thor, in Avengers he was kinda lame, I liked him as anti-hero in Thor 2 and 3, and I liked his death
Exactly. Are people clamoring for the backstory of Sauron? The intricate motivations behind the Matrix's AI? These are forces of pure "bad" that our heroes define themselves by overcoming.
Palpatine's character was kinda done both ways by this trilogy. It ruined him because he actually died to someone who wasn't the Chosen One, which was pathetic. It helped him because his grand-daughter lived on, and the Skywalker and Solo bloodlines were culled. Palpatine _won._ This trilogy is ruined.
The only OT character who's been improved in the Disney era is Darth Vader, who got two freaking awesome scenes in Rogue One that basically stole the entire movie.
How Original Trilogy ended: Palpatine was defeated, Vader redeemed (and died), one official Jedi is left, Empire is nearly defeated, no Republic yet How Sequel Trilogy ended: Palpatine defeated, Kylo was redeemed (and died), one official jedi is left, First Order is nearly defeated (did they forget the Final Order is still around?), no Republic
Steven Larson nothing changed except Hans dead, Leias dead, and Luke’s dead. They accomplished nothing and they devolved as people. Complete trashy fan fiction.
Alex Chaudhari He said the DISNEY TRILOGY he isn’t against any expansions or at least he didn’t say he was. You can expand on a story while following the rules homie
@@bruhbruh8115 So then it's not a bad idea to flesh out the SEQUEL TRILOGY Era so that it can be respected like how the Prequels even with 3 movies had to keep going on its own with a show to get there.
The sequel trilogy desecrated the one thing that we thought was out of it's reach. ~I once was a villain like you~ ~But then I got hit by a shitty script in the knee~
We pretty much saw him in every enjoyable light a good villain should be seen in: quiet and calculating, loud and roaring, joyful and content, angry and bitter. Every time he was onscreen, he stole the show. Even at his silliest, the Emperor is by far one of the best villainous characters.
It definitely hurt his legacy since TROS paints as an arrogant idiot, his plans for conquering the galaxy made no sense when he revealed himself to the Resistance and he ends up losing the element of surprise, not to mention that his backup plan involving Rey and draining her life force was far better than his original one.
I gave Palpatine an A because of his role in the story as the main antagonist. He basically manipulated and overthrew the Republic and the Jedi in the Prequels and formed the first Galactic Empire. He was also the mastermind behind most if not all of the events in the Clone Wars.
"I'm too weak, please don't let them revive me please! I can't hold it any longer. I...I...I...I can't. I...I... I'm...I'm too weak. Help me. Help me!" 30 years later: "Somehow Palpatine has survived"
The Darth Plagueis novel does a great job explaining Palpatine's origin and how he fell to the dark side in the hands of Plagueis. Too bad the story isn't considered canon because it really shows his development as a proper sith lord who thrives off of power. Instead, the sequel trilogy brings down his score from an A to a B+ for me.
It was my first foray into the EU, and boy was it amazing. Reading how he killed his family when he was young was so chilling and there’s no doubt that he was the epitome of the dark side.
Its really funny how the video begins talking about how Darth Sidious' actor is a sweetie, because that is exactly the image that Senator Palpatine probably gave off, and now I have to seriously consider the possibility that we'll all fall under Ian McDiarmid's sudden dictatorship.
I think that for a character like Palpatine there is no need to explain his motives. He can just be evil for the sake of being evil and it doesn't take away from the story. If he had motives it would almost take away his greatness and his role in the story.
Citlali Cervantes I disagree with the idea that Palpatine needed to be more human, since the prequels did a good job at showing Palpatine having an emotional range. The OT he was just this dark overlord, the prequels make him seem like someone who generally enjoy what he’s doing because it’s all fun to him.
My boy Sheev was honestly one of the best characters in the whole saga. He was amazing in his role of the OT, and the whole Prequels were more his story than anyone else. THEN we got the Sequels. Because of that damned movie, I had to drop his rating from A to B. Yet another character brought down by the sequels.
@@achaudhari101 Why? 1. They brought him back off screen 2. He announces his plan to the galaxy, which is the laziest villain writing imaginable 3. He changes his plan from "capture Rey" to "possess Rey" to "destroy Rey" so haphazardly it makes him look ridiculous 4. Apparently he's a clone of some sort 5. Bringing him back without Anakin killed the character arcs of both Anakin and Luke The performance is brilliant but the story writing behind it is terrible
@@kossend1 1. What else could they have done? They had to bring back the guy that was the mastermind behind it all as a way to make it connect. Necessary evil. 2. He announced it yes but he didn't say what he had to back it up so it can be a trap for the Resistance. 3. He wanted Rey at first to be his new successor but when she refused and got revitalized from being drained, he knew that having her be his new heir was not happening as she refused and so he said "Fuck it, I'm killing her as well and ruling forever". 4. Okay? Your point? 5. I disagree. Anakin and Luke still contributed to ending the Sith. Former ended Palaptine (Real one) and ended the Rule of Two. Latter indirectly ended the Empire and the Sith controlling the Galaxy in the process. Rey ended Palpatine and the Sith forever altogether. That's how I interpret it. @AbbasRB7 But how does his appearance after two trilogies drop a grade level because his goals made no sense? I would expect maybe you went from an A+ to an A- but a B? Harsh.
@@achaudhari101 why suddenly the character who for 6 films was hell bent on getting all the power for himself would now be willing to give it all away to a daughter of his failed clone who he himself discarded. It wasn't necessary to bring him back. And if they wanted to then they should have set it up from the very start. It was clearly not planned And if anyone still thinks that this shit TROS is good on any level is either delusional or doesn't have the wits to see the whole lot of inconsistencies in the plot of this corporate turd of a film.
Hurt because it made Palpatine a short-sighted fool that failed to prepare before attacking the galaxy. Helped Palpatine because he potentially possessed Rey after she killed him, and now the Palpatine bloodline has annihilated and usurped both the Skywalker and Solo bloodlines. Edit: Of course, this ruins everything else in the saga, but I was just answering the title.
Count dooku is one of the most interesting characters in Star Wars he is extremely powerful and knowledgeable and one of the few characters to max out his potential infact had he stayed in the order Yoda May have made him the next grandmaster an as a sith hobestly only anakin a unique potential made him expendable otherwise it would be difficult to find a stringers apprentice
@@jamesh2514 He wouldn't have been as interesting to watch on screen, but if he were, say, a character in a book or comic, I think he would've still been just as great. I personally think the only thing that's missing for Dooku in the movies is just including him in the Phantom Menace (possibly sitting on the Jedi Council) so that he feels more mysterious & intentionally set up in Attack of the Clones.
"I've played along with your Jedi dueling games long enough! Now you will experience my full potency…I live as energy…I am the dark side!" -Darth Sidious.
I don't think there is anything wrong with a simple motivation. Wanting power, revenge, and control and fundamental aspects of evil and many humans fall to their seduction. You don't need any more explanation for a villain than "they want power". Like, Hitler wanted power and he started a World War. If that motive worked in real life then it's perfectly realistic in a fictional universe. Being complex is not automatically better than being complex. If it works and makes sense, simple is perfect. (And thank you for including my comment in your video!)
Obi-Wan Kenobi I think the prequels did humanize Palpatine since we saw a range of emotion from Sheev. The difference is that most time humanize a villain makes them sympathetic. In Palpatine’s case it was to show he wasn’t an evil monster, instead he just was an evil man who enjoyed everything he did with pride.
Here's the way I see it; Palpatine is one of those characters that cannot be ruined. Even with the sequel trilogy there's nothing there that hasn't already been done in Legends. The reason why is because Palpatine into the space tyrants what Sauron is to fantastical dark lords; what Michael Myers is to the slasher villain; a character who defines an archetype. Palpatine, from the orginal trilogy, to the prequel trilogy, to both Legends and Disney is one of the few characters who was unchanged. And really there's no way you could subvert or deconstruct him, or his archetype in the same way the other characters where. As stated has always been the epitome of pure evil in Star Wars, in fact he is one of the *poster boys* of the Complete Monster trope; a trope which by definition refers to a villain with no redeeming/humanzing/sympathetic qualites, and the atrocities they commit. On TV Tropes Star Wars has its own subpage for such characters in the franchise (which I'll link below for those curious) and Palpatine alone has multiple entries to his name (along with Tarkin) spanning across his roles the saga. The point is, Palpatine was the same in the morning as he is at night, from the cradle to the grave and beyond. Palpatine wasn't so much of a character anymore so much as he is an archetype. The only real way he could be ruined is if they try to humanize him or if he overstays his welcome. This is because, really there's nothing else that can be done with his character; and giving him any real depth may take away from what made him who is is. tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Monster/StarWars?from=Monster.StarWarsExpandedUniverse
I'm starting to think without the sequels, we wouldn't have valued how evil, how charismatic Palpatine was in the OT and Prequels. Personally, I would shove the sequels away and just keep Palpy the way he is. He's an A+ all the way. To a degree, Palpatine in Dark Empire kiiiiinda lowers him down to a B+. But that's if anyone wants to follow the original EU continuation.
I know right. Or any Force Ghosts in general actually being there to help Rey. Like all of them slashing Palpatine together or each individually, or even have Rey mimicking some of their signature moves in the battle, with their spirits shadowing over and fusing with her as they mimicked the move she copied.
@@zexalbrony4799 those visuals could've saved the final battle if they started off with lesser jedi and towards the end have yoda, obi-wan, mace, hell luke, and the finishing blow come from Anakin/Rey. Then, maybe the SCENE could have been saved.
@@stormbringer2840 Lesser of two evils. Besides people who hated TLJ wouldn't have been too on board with that version of the film (Though I do wish the Battle of Coruscant on the ground was a thing).
Wish you'd mentioned he portrayal in the Clone Wars, when he was in the background he was constantly showing these creepy little smiles just to show the viewer how much he enjoyed the manipulation. And OH MY GOD the fight with Darth Maul and Savage on Mandatory is my favorite lightsaber fight in Clone Wars and possibly even all of Star Wars. The way he just seems to be toying with them, even laughing a little right as he kills Savage and just standing and watching with a grin as Maul kneels over his dying brother. My god he is amazing in the Clone Wars.
Two more things in Palpatine's favor: the Old Expanded Universe does him more justice (as it usually does), and makes him a more complete character. For anyone complaining they don't get enough insight into him or his motivations, then I *highly* recommend that they read the Old EU novel _Darth Plagueis._ You'll likely walk away satisfied. (I know Thor rightfully sung its praises in the video, but I just want to reinforce that you do get inside his head. From a sociopathic preteen all the way through the death of his master and his rise to Supreme Chancellor.) Also, might be weird coming from me, since I usually have to be negative about The Clone Wars in order to keep it in perspective and from getting an over-inflated prestige in my fellow fans here. But I do really like that show, and Palpatine gets some props for being in the best lightsaber battle in that show. And, honestly, one of the best in the franchise.
This - the Plagueis novel is amazing. It's very well written, adds a great deal to the whole story and develops Sidious into a full character. I hope Luceno is one day brought back to do a canon version of that story.
I feel like Palpetine is an extremely strong resource misused in the sequel trilogy. Poe literally utters the words, “somehow, Palpetine returned” in TRoS, with no explanation or hint of returning prior. To me, Palpetine was always such an amazing villain because, while he was always pulling strings behind the scenes during the prequels, we (the audience) were always in on the secret. While I still give him an A as a character, the only reason he felt like himself in TRoS was because of Ian imo.
A hero is only as good as their villain and the fact that he's Been the villain of many heroes and has caused all the conflict of the entire star wars story was set in motion by him this in my mind gives him am A. The entire star wars story is a response to his existence. A grand story like star wars deserves a grand villain and Palpatine is supreme in this respect.
@@achaudhari101 then the future is shit because the audience are being spoonfed bullshit propaganda instead of decent quality storytelling. Star wars was bastardized by woke politics, degrading men by making them appear foolish in front of female characters, recycling older settings and themes, and killing off original characters in the most disrespectful way while failing to build up the new characters to earn their place in fan admiration. Disney failed time and time again to try to please a small audience who is too demanding of implementing strong leftist non partisan political agendas in movies as a way of indoctrinating people into conformity targeting mainly the younger audience. If you go to a restaurant to order a steak and expecting the steak to be at least decent but end up tasting better than expected, that's positive for business all around. If you order a steak at a steakhouse and were served a vegan meal instead, you would understandably be angry and confused as to how you ended up with a vegan meal at a steakhouse. You complain to the manager and the manager gives a nasty attitude. You leave that restaurant and it slowly closes 3 months later. That's what will happen to Disney if they don't get their shit together after this crises is resolved, it's either own up their mistakes and move on to do better or perish in the process.
Really surprised no comment on the Clone Wars fight between Sidious and Maul / Savage. The sinister and horrific way he pinned the guards to the wall before entering, the fear in Maul’s face, and how handily and gleefully he took them out. Not to mention how they captured and expanded the fighting style of Palps before his face turned into forskins... Really one of the top replay lightsaber battles on my watch list and may give me goosebumps almost as much as TPM duel of fates opening scene.
Palpatine was a smart and scary character because he could be interesting while whispering and scheming in the shadows, being so important when we didn’t even know him that well in the OT. And then in the prequels he schemed for 3 movies before we got his reveal and victory. THAT was a payoff. The sequels not only rushed his plans, unexplained and made him look like an idiot, but tried to make him a good villain by making him scream, look like a zombie and use OP lighting, basically exaggerating everything about him.
Palpatine in the prequels: hides his plan for multiple decades and slowly rises to power until the perfect moment comes Palpatine in ROS: tells everyone his plan and gives then time to respond...
@@emberfist8347 you're right about Bane but Joker was just a nihilistic incarnation of the devil who acted on instinct, he had a goal but no true motivation, we still don't understand why he doesn't want to watch the world burn
Jeff Edburg go check the pinned comment and add him if you don’t find him there. Thor won’t consider this comment, since it’s not a response to his pinned comment.
I went to a Comic Con that Ian was at a few years ago. My then 6 year old went up to him in his Darth Vader costume, bowed down on one knee, and called him "My master". Ian replied with "Rise, Lord Vader" in his Palpatine voice. It was legit the coolest moment ever for my child (and me! Lol).
If you consider the ST, his long game plan was silly, especially the execution. Yet, I gotta give him an A because I love how addicted he is to reining over the galaxy. He uses whoever and whatever to accomplish that goal. He’s just plain evil. I just wish we saw him and Force Ghost Anakin have at least some dialogue exchange in TRoS. One solid scene of those two could have done wonders for the ST. Sigh.
@@dereklopez9060 Yeah I got thrills watching him in it just seeing McDiarmid bring him to life once more. Sure we could all tear that film apart, but there was a lot of fun with it and he helped make that.
It hurt a lot to the entire SAGA, specially in the sequel trilogy making it now the Palpatine SAGA instead of the Skywalker SAGA. He was the only villain to be in the 9 movies, plus a Palpatine was the one who truly defeated him not a Skywalker.
@@achaudhari101 But why freaking skywalker ? She got what ? three days with luke ? Why not pay hommage to your teacher , the first father figure that you had and the man that saved your life by taking the name of Solo ? It makes no sense it go against what leia taught her ( about not fear who you were ) and the Name she choose doesn't even make sense .
I have seen the original 3, Phantom Menace and a few bits and pieces of prequel 2 and 3. I have see TFA and nothing else from the sequels. So, Palpatine in my eyes is a brilliant character. He was a menace in the original 3 and conveyed the right sense of danger to server as the main villain. And he was the high point in Phantom Menace. I literally giggled when he as first introduced in that movie and admired his manipulation of all involved parties to his own benefit. My respect grew through the entire movie. I think the he evolved from a simple evil villain (in the original 3) to an all controlling mastermind (in the prequels). His evolution in the prequels was like watching the one scene from Lord of the Rings 1 where the Balrog emerges from the shadows, unfolds his wings and screams in rage at the Fellowship across the chasm. It literally describes the evolution of Palpatine in the prequels in that one scene and has about the same amazing impact.
Did he fool the Jedi? In the clone wars, you can really see that the Jedi had lost their way, and had really become henchmen or the brute muscle for the Senate (essentially palpatine). The expulsion and condemnation of Ahsoka, the continuous lying to Anakin (the "death" of kenobi, it cannot be overstated how wrong that was), to even the fear and suspicion to the point of confining Yoda so that Anakin had to free him for his journey to Moraband. It leads one to believe that perhaps it was the will of the force for Anakin to cull off many of those force users who had simply become clones with force powers.
Which is also a culmination of the rise in the dark side of the force built by the Sith over the space of 1000 years, and which Sidious was the benefactor.
To me Darth Sidious, Emperor Palpatine, died by Anakin Skywalker on the Death Star, end of story. There is no return. No Snoke. And no Sequel Trilogy in this point at my opinion. They are just movies of another universe.
Do you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Sidious the Devil. I thought so it’s not a story the Jedi would tell you. Darth Sidious was so wise and so powerful he could manipulate the republic into destroying there protectors and becoming the very thing they swore to destroy. His only weakness was his overconfidence what was his undoing. Ironic he used the overconfidence of the Jedi to destroy them but the same thing destroyed him.
i agree, there was a way to bring back palpatine in a somewhat cool way wouldve been contrived but id like to hear the audio clip of him saying the dark side grants powers that some consider to be unnatural right before a big reveal thats been set up well
Palpatine the man? Done a serious blow by this trilogy. If you can forgive what is going to be a long comment, let’s break it down: Palpatine as we see him in Lucas Star Wars, is a genius. The man was playing 4-D chess for years while the galaxy was playing Hungry Hungry Hippos. His only error in six films is not believing his partner for 20 years, the man he trained and basically groomed from childhood, the man who was basically a cripple compared to himself, would be able to betray him. Palpatine in Disney Wars? A moron. He gives the galaxy a warning that he’s alive and will return. He initiated his Body-Swap plan at the same time as his Return-And-Reconquer-the-Galaxy plan. Why? He could’ve swooped in with his fleet, won the day, and then worried about his new body. He kept Rey alive even after getting his rejuvenated body. Why not just yeet her into the pit with Kylo at that point? And maybe the most idiotic, he kept zapping Rey when it was literally killing him. Palpatine the genius manipulator obviously lost some brain cells in the DS2 explosion. Palpatine’s Legacy? Bolstered. The Skywalkers are dead and eclipsed. His granddaughter (or I guess if her father is a clone of Sheev, technically his biological daughter?) is the only one left to reclaim and reshape the galaxy. His bloodline eclipsed his enemy and even usurped their name. If there’s a Force hell, Palpy is laughing his ass off there right now.
You know it was 30 years of doing what he did right? He wanted to create a monarchy for the Sith to return. I don’t consider him a moron if he wanted to wait until someone strong in the Force can rejuvenate his body.
Alex Chaudhari He knew about Rey almost as soon as she was born though. He didn’t know where she was, but he knew she was out there, and a suitable host for his spirit. But ok, let’s say he did need to wait all that time to strike out on his plans. It is not intelligent to give your enemies a warning before making what would be a kill stroke. Had he not announced himself, he could have sent out a Death Star Destoryer to every planet in the galaxy, maybe blow a few up before anyone knows what the hell is happening, and won the day right there. Once he was back in charge, then he can focus on swapping bodies. Doing both plans at the same time is too many things to juggle, especially with something so important.
@@vnom84 He told them what was to happen but he didn't tell his enemies that he had a shitload of Star Destroyers. That to me at least would have been moronic if he did that. Palpatine did all of the clones and setting up the First/Final Order because remember the New Republic was so incompetent that they were stupid to not know what was going on at the time. Technology is faster in Star wars than in real life.
Jar Jar Binks, if only to have more than just a bunch of 4s across the board: I want to see how we as a Fanbase feel post sequel trilogy and with nearly 2 decades of hindsight and personal growth. I fluctuate to be honest. With all of the theories behind his character and old hatred, it would be interesting to see where we all stand.
It would have been perfect for a Mountain Dew advert where they had Palpatine say "Do it!" in it. The way he said it in Revenge of the Sith sounds like "Dew it!" as in Mountain Dew.
On your comment "so corrupted by the dark side for the sake of being evil" this could have tied into your next survey....... Maybe we could have seen some of that Evil in the Force pulling the characters exploring the force and the whills and medichlorians lore deeper like george wanted to go originally wanted
I can't believe that in a video about the ultimate Sith seen onscreen, one of the absolute best lightsaber duels of all time wasn't mentioned. No. I'm not talking about Yoda V Palpatine which was nice, but the battle from the Clone Wars on Mandalore. From, "Hmm. I sense a presence. A presence I haven't ...felt since...MASTER, till "There is no mercy. Do not worry, I'm not going to kill you. I have...OTHER uses for you...
People say a main character is only as good as their antagonist, but an antagonist can suffer if the antagonist has a bad protagonist (im refering about Rey)... Movie Anakin is not nearly as good as the Clone Wars, but its the fact he was manipulated that made Palpatine better
I would love to see an episode on Cad Bane, the (in my opinion) best bounty hunter in all of star wars, in all aspects. As far as Palps goes, he is one of, if not my, favorite character in all of Star Wars. He is the ultimate bad guy, and even though his return was rocky at best, I'm okay thinking of the series as a 9 film saga about Palpatine AND Skywalkers. You can never have one without the other in my opinion.
Rise of Skywalker reduced Palpatine to a generic evil villain. He did and said nothing you wouldn't see in a bad Marvel film. I always figured Dooku was too confused and shocked (at Palpatine's betrayal and also his defeat and the loss of his hands) to out Palpatine.
For dooku there is two logical reasons that he would not rat out palpatine : -He already did with obi wan in episode 2 and he didn't believe him why would anakin believe him now ? -THis would serve no purpose since there is no one in the room that CAN take palpatine down , anakin isn't strong enough yet and obi wan is down .
I find Palpatine aka Darth Sidious is the Voldemort of SW franchise as he the most evil person that been with him since a teenager and killed his father and he family just like He Who Must Not Be Named.
He who must not be named his Palpatine's master, as soon as you pronounce his name the entire Prequelmemes subreddit starts the monologue, including me
I thought Dooku was just so shocked at Palpatine's betrayal. If Anakin had spared his life and lowered his lightsaber I think Dooku would have talked but then Palpatine would have likely tried to (and would probably succeeded in) killed Dooku, Anakin and Obi-wan and switched to some plan B...
*"I think people over emphasize the importance of the canon level.* The intent of the canon levels was, as the main intent was 'if someones looking for the ships from a film, they can than use those fields to check for them only in the films,and thus seperate that from what was in the EU. So we can look at it case by case. *I think there is an over emphasis of what those fields mean and what they represent."* ~ Leland Chee
just out of curiosity, what would you guys want to see(if anything) in a young palpatine film? besides the obvious inclusion of plagueis and sheevs budding dark side abilities. i think it’d be cool to see their relationship and palp eclipsing his master in terms of cunning and savagery without compromising what makes he character awesome.
I gave Palpatine a B based on how horribly his character was written for TROS. I did the same thing for Luke based on TLJ. I can already see that the only characters who wind up in the top five once this list is fairly comprehensive will be characters who did not appear in the sequels (beyond tiny voice roles).
No mentions of him in the clone wars? His further manipulation of anakin, but MOSTLY of the clone war, and then I'd course his fight vs maul and oppress?? I didnt read every comment, cuz I missed the poll, of course... but I'm kinda shocked no comments about that, or perhaps at least in this wrap up video, about his role in that show...
Dooku kept his silence part because of respect, part of because he froze in fear. we usually talk about the Fight or Flight response, but adrenalin can cause 1 of 3 responses: Fight, Flight *or Freeze*.
Plus honestly from dooku's perspective nothing would change : -They would probably not believe him . -If they believe him sidious would simply kill them
I’ll give Vader a A, although he would probably be at a high b if it were for the sudden no’s in the newer versions of return of a Jedi, but I like to think I’m watching the original version of the film. Vader is always such a menacing character with deep emotions & over all these years his character has remained consistent even with Disney’s acquisition of Lucasfilm. He really shines in The OT & is bad-ass in the final sequence in rogue one. How I like to view his character arc is the fall of Anikan, Rise of Vader, & Anikan’s return. His previous life as Anikan Skywalker gives him that much more depth. In my eyes, & also to loosely quote George Lucas “ This saga is all about Anikan, it’s his arc through the entire saga” and in a way, the prophecy was for filled in the end, but then Disney had to make his redemption effectively useless through the sequel trilogy’s conception. Vader will forever be one of the greatest villains of All time, among Thanos, his master palpatine, & joker in the dark knight.
If Darth Sidious hadn't been brought back in the Rise of Skywalker, he would have gotten a much better score. The same thing would have happened if they had brought Obi-Wan into the picture for the sequel trilogy. They would have found the way to even fuck him up.
My favorite thing about Palpatine is he was an absolute genius every time 2 steps a head of everyone yet the only thing he ever overlooked was people's good nature, every time his plans were almost soil it was because of someone selflessness, like when fives almost busted the order 66 because he wanted to save his friend and brother Tup and then was willing to risk himself to reveal the sith plot or when trying to corrupt Yoda in season 6 but failing because of Yod's willingness to sacrifice himself and finally his defeat in Return of the Jedi was because Anakin's made the ultimate sacrifice for his son. The maximum selfish villain defeated by an act of selflessness. That's why I didn't like his defeat in RoTS because they took this defeat based on a character flaw and a poetic way to end the epic struggle of the compassionate Jedi vs the selfish sith and turned it into basically "my Kamehameha is bigger's than yours".
The ST did something truly truly impressive... it made Palpy boring and generic and suffering from a bad case of STUPID villain syndrome. Like Palpy's plans within Plans is foregone for, I've announced my comeback before all my ships are ready,
Boring and generic? Nah fam. Palpatine as far as “stupid villain syndrome” is concerned, he did that innROTJ when he sent his Imperial Royal Guards out of the throne room when they could have saved him when Vader was throwing him down the shaft.
Either Vader, Yoda, Dooku, Griveous (legends), Han (how may just dethrone Obi-Wan Kenobi), Leia or just as an "experiment" (so we can go from master to student) Mara Jade
"They just got it wrong. Bad people do not walk around with claws like vicious monsters, even though it might be comforting to think so. Everyone intelligent knows that evil comes along with a smiling face." *-Oliver Hirschbiegel, "Downfall" movie director* Modern Hollywood is reluctant or incapable of understanding the mindsets of characters like old Palps. He's not just a random force of evil, zapping fleets and killing puppies for the lulz, free will applies to him as well. With his free will he chose to do and maintain evil and destructive acts, while beguiling or threatening others into doing the same, typically to further his own goals. The heroes don't oppose him just because they're on the "Light Side", they oppose him to stop him from doing all that evil stuff again. This was probably what George Lucas was thinking or trying to convey in the Prequel trilogy, unfortunately the reception to those films sort of made it fly under the radar. Or people just don't WANT to hear that message.
Palpatine was a genius villain. He got into a position of power, blamed all of his war efforts with the Separatists onto the jedi, convinced the entire universe that the jedi were evil (what sealed that deal was Mace Windu's failed attempt in subduing him, he painted this as them trying to silence Palpatine), and had dear little Anakin under his thumb. His plans were crumbled twice in the prequel era, once because the Rebels managed to blow up the Death Star, the second time was Vader trying to protect his only son and backstabbed the father he never had. First was out of his control, the second being that it was difficult to predict emotions. Now, onto the Disney era... his failures were erased. Not only that... but apparently he PLANNED on having the Death Star blow up TWICE, and being backstabbed by his loyal puppet... in order to go into hiding to amass literal thousands fleets equipped with the death star weaponry, making the whole purpose of the Death Star moot. Somehow, NOBODY noticed the zillion dollar bill for all that bullshit, as well as having a base to hide ALL of this, as well as HIRING PERSONNELS TO PILOT EVERY SINGLE FUCKING SHIP. But let's say he somehow managed to pull that bullshit off... the most retarded thing he could have done in this position was to announce the entire universe that he was about to attack. Which he fucking did. The rebellion would have stood NO CHANCE in hell had Paly implemented a simple little plan called BLITZKRIEG. The First Order is already using nazi imagery, why not go all the way and have them fight like ones too. Overwhelming power, all charging at their bases one by one, hit the rebellion where it hurts real bad to the point nobody in the galaxy could think about going against the First Order. That's what the REAL Palpatine done in that position: the entire galaxy would be in his literal palm while having snuffed out the jedi for good. Or better yet... how about NOT doing all that waste of time, and instead just fucking kill Luke and Vader at the same time, as well call in for heavier reinforcements to crush the Rebels right then and there. Why the fuck would he just let it happen if he knew it was going to happen? Disney Palpatine's plan makes no sense whatsoever, which ruins Palpatine's character. Should have just left him dead, his time on the spotlight was already done.
the sequel trilogy made us wonder. Is there some hidden menace even greater than the Sith? Who is Snoke? Who or what was capable of turning Luke into Jake? Is it The Son? Is it Darth Plagueis? Is it Jar Jar Binks?! Is it some godlike being who controls the power of both Light and Darkness? Nah. It was Palpatine all along. I really like the character of Palpatine and I'm not saying that his return is such a bad idea in and of itself. I could have made for a great Episode 7. But retconning everything from Episode 7 and 8 back to Pulps in Ep 9? Replacing all the Skywalkers with Rey??! Not cool at all. We were promised some kind of epic resolution which would tie together all 9 episodes and we were cheated.
The pursuit of power is a very common flaw and pursuit in human nature. That IS being human, or being in general. Sauron seeks power for power's sake. Satan himself desires more power, and his fall due to his pride knowing he can't have it
I'm curious about something; what do people actually think of Palpatine's line "I _am_ the senate"? All the memes, & general prequel hate make it hard for me to tell what people's thoughts are on that moment. For me, it was probably his scariest moment in the whole franchise. It's the moment where he completely drops the facade, & makes it clear to the Jedi Masters confronting him that they've already lost. It's a line that's just absolutely dripping with power, but not just his own immense power with the Dark Side, but the real power he's accrued; his complete domination of the entire political system of the galaxy. A lot of people talk about his cackling during his duel with Yoda as the point where he knows he's won regardless of whether he's beaten in combat, but it was all over long before that. If Mace & the Jedi had killed or arrested Palpatine in that moment, it would've been over for the Jedi order.
Respond to this comment with your nomination for what character we should do next, or give a thumbs up if they're already listed.
No wait. actually, Starkiller
Thor Skywalker Count Dooku
Droid army
Yoda
Jango fett
*fans vote against The Senate*
"It's treason then"
*Angry Senate Noises*
*starts spinning - because that's a good trick
Oh yes. I'm treasonous against the Sith.
AAAAAAAOOOOOOOAAAAAAGH
So this is how democracy dies...to angry Senate noises
I'm afraid the Empire will be quite operational when the Senate dies.
I don't see how making Palpatine sympathetic would be beneficial to his character. If anything it will take away from his character and what made him iconic to begin with. Not every villain has to be a sympathetic.
Ikr, cuz of pathetic entities like Kylo Ren I can't stand emotional villains anymore
@@emberfist8347 Loki was well written tho, Kylo was one dimensional emo
@@emberfist8347 he was kinda an anti-hero actually, he's kinda like that first anime villain that launches the hero on his journey but wasn't that much of a villain after all, he was only decent as villain in the first Thor, in Avengers he was kinda lame, I liked him as anti-hero in Thor 2 and 3, and I liked his death
@@emberfist8347 I miss Coulson
Exactly. Are people clamoring for the backstory of Sauron? The intricate motivations behind the Matrix's AI? These are forces of pure "bad" that our heroes define themselves by overcoming.
Palpatine's character was kinda done both ways by this trilogy.
It ruined him because he actually died to someone who wasn't the Chosen One, which was pathetic.
It helped him because his grand-daughter lived on, and the Skywalker and Solo bloodlines were culled.
Palpatine _won._ This trilogy is ruined.
@Lionard Kirsch He could save others from death, but not himself.
I never thought of it that way and I doubt Disney did to. Good point.
Palpatine didn’t win though. Those weren’t his goals.
Chosen one? A prophecy which misread may have been...
Harley Honeycutt not for 43 years of Star Wars canon it wasn’t miss read. Get the Disney garbage out of here.
I'm baffled that Palpatine didn't get *66%* on A! *IT'S TREASON THEN.*
The only OT character who's been improved in the Disney era is Darth Vader, who got two freaking awesome scenes in Rogue One that basically stole the entire movie.
How do you figure they took away everything Vader did by bringing back Palpatine
That's were your wrong, as surprising as it seems, there was a way to make Han better and TFA found it
@@andrewmoore4510 how is undoing the entire character arc of Han, "improving " him?
@@benwild5766 I don't think they messed up his character arc.
@knut orr they took the character we know didn't make any bad changes and made him extremely funny.
The sequel trilogy helped nothing in creating or continuing Star Wars lore.
How Original Trilogy ended: Palpatine was defeated, Vader redeemed (and died), one official Jedi is left, Empire is nearly defeated, no Republic yet
How Sequel Trilogy ended: Palpatine defeated, Kylo was redeemed (and died), one official jedi is left, First Order is nearly defeated (did they forget the Final Order is still around?), no Republic
Steven Larson nothing changed except Hans dead, Leias dead, and Luke’s dead. They accomplished nothing and they devolved as people. Complete trashy fan fiction.
Steven Larson the Disney trilogy doesn't matter at all it's worthless
oh and pointless too
@Steev Rawjers 👏👏Sequel Trilogy👏👏 Not whatever you’re calling it since it’s not the cavemen era anymore.
@@achaudhari101 lol the prequels are awesome
He is A+, only due to not regarding the Disney Trilogy as canonical, because it cannot be by the well established rules of the universe.
That makes no sense to hope it’s not part of Star Wars like that because it means you’re against it being expanded upon. Oh and 👏👏Sequel Trilogy👏👏
Alex Chaudhari He said the DISNEY TRILOGY he isn’t against any expansions or at least he didn’t say he was. You can expand on a story while following the rules homie
@@bruhbruh8115 So then it's not a bad idea to flesh out the SEQUEL TRILOGY Era so that it can be respected like how the Prequels even with 3 movies had to keep going on its own with a show to get there.
@@achaudhari101 Even without being fleshed out, the Prequels are still nowhere near as bad as this Disney garbage.
You don't even know the rules of the universe dummy.
The sequel trilogy desecrated the one thing that we thought was out of it's reach.
~I once was a villain like you~
~But then I got hit by a shitty script in the knee~
Got that reference
We pretty much saw him in every enjoyable light a good villain should be seen in: quiet and calculating, loud and roaring, joyful and content, angry and bitter. Every time he was onscreen, he stole the show. Even at his silliest, the Emperor is by far one of the best villainous characters.
J.J. Abrahms: I want to bring back Palpatine
Disney: do it
me: it's treason then
I believe it's rian Johnson's fault
I was completely baffled that people were cheering for him to come back. There’s people that still do.
Abrams and Terrio have both said it was Kennedy’s idea to bring him back. Go figure.
To me the sequel trilogy doesn't count...when I was voting I was imagining him the way he was portrayed in the prequels
It definitely hurt his legacy since TROS paints as an arrogant idiot, his plans for conquering the galaxy made no sense when he revealed himself to the Resistance and he ends up losing the element of surprise, not to mention that his backup plan involving Rey and draining her life force was far better than his original one.
I can’t tell if this is sincere or sarcastic.
I gave Palpatine an A because of his role in the story as the main antagonist.
He basically manipulated and overthrew the Republic and the Jedi in the Prequels and formed the first Galactic Empire.
He was also the mastermind behind most if not all of the events in the Clone Wars.
Couldn't have put it better into words. So true
I mean, no shit.
I agree
Well done, yes, that is his story in the prequel trilogy
"I'm too weak, please don't let them revive me please!
I can't hold it any longer. I...I...I...I can't. I...I... I'm...I'm too weak. Help me. Help me!"
30 years later: "Somehow Palpatine has survived"
The Darth Plagueis novel does a great job explaining Palpatine's origin and how he fell to the dark side in the hands of Plagueis. Too bad the story isn't considered canon because it really shows his development as a proper sith lord who thrives off of power. Instead, the sequel trilogy brings down his score from an A to a B+ for me.
It was my first foray into the EU, and boy was it amazing. Reading how he killed his family when he was young was so chilling and there’s no doubt that he was the epitome of the dark side.
@@beardedbjorn5520
It was my first EU material as well. Loved every second of it.
In the prequels palpatine is an idiot but in the sequels he’s a genius
@@coolcatttttt8 Hey I'm a bit in the dark as to your reasoning for this, could you explain please?
The sequel ‘Disney’ trilogy needs not to be mentioned ever again.
Chewingbacca true it's like mentioning the dog poop you stepped in and washed off last year
@Chewingbacca Sounds like iconoclasticism which should be banned in pop culture. Pathetic and anti First Amendment of you to say if you ask me.
@@achaudhari101 I have to agree. Ignore the stupid fandom menace
@@achaudhari101 hahaha! How?
@@benwild5766 Banning things because you don't like them is something I expect China doing, not a fandom.
Its really funny how the video begins talking about how Darth Sidious' actor is a sweetie, because that is exactly the image that Senator Palpatine probably gave off, and now I have to seriously consider the possibility that we'll all fall under Ian McDiarmid's sudden dictatorship.
OMG
I think that for a character like Palpatine there is no need to explain his motives. He can just be evil for the sake of being evil and it doesn't take away from the story. If he had motives it would almost take away his greatness and his role in the story.
His motive is POOOOWWWAAAAAAAAAAHHHH
Citlali Cervantes I disagree with the idea that Palpatine needed to be more human, since the prequels did a good job at showing Palpatine having an emotional range. The OT he was just this dark overlord, the prequels make him seem like someone who generally enjoy what he’s doing because it’s all fun to him.
Agreed. I know this is blasphemy but I think exploring his origin in the Darth Plagueis novel was a mistake.
My boy Sheev was honestly one of the best characters in the whole saga. He was amazing in his role of the OT, and the whole Prequels were more his story than anyone else. THEN we got the Sequels. Because of that damned movie, I had to drop his rating from A to B. Yet another character brought down by the sequels.
Why?
@@achaudhari101 Why?
1. They brought him back off screen
2. He announces his plan to the galaxy, which is the laziest villain writing imaginable
3. He changes his plan from "capture Rey" to "possess Rey" to "destroy Rey" so haphazardly it makes him look ridiculous
4. Apparently he's a clone of some sort
5. Bringing him back without Anakin killed the character arcs of both Anakin and Luke
The performance is brilliant but the story writing behind it is terrible
@@achaudhari101 I can't just rate him based on what I want to see, it has to be based on everything.
@@kossend1 1. What else could they have done? They had to bring back the guy that was the mastermind behind it all as a way to make it connect. Necessary evil.
2. He announced it yes but he didn't say what he had to back it up so it can be a trap for the Resistance.
3. He wanted Rey at first to be his new successor but when she refused and got revitalized from being drained, he knew that having her be his new heir was not happening as she refused and so he said "Fuck it, I'm killing her as well and ruling forever".
4. Okay? Your point?
5. I disagree. Anakin and Luke still contributed to ending the Sith. Former ended Palaptine (Real one) and ended the Rule of Two. Latter indirectly ended the Empire and the Sith controlling the Galaxy in the process. Rey ended Palpatine and the Sith forever altogether. That's how I interpret it.
@AbbasRB7 But how does his appearance after two trilogies drop a grade level because his goals made no sense? I would expect maybe you went from an A+ to an A- but a B? Harsh.
@@achaudhari101 why suddenly the character who for 6 films was hell bent on getting all the power for himself would now be willing to give it all away to a daughter of his failed clone who he himself discarded. It wasn't necessary to bring him back. And if they wanted to then they should have set it up from the very start. It was clearly not planned
And if anyone still thinks that this shit TROS is good on any level is either delusional or doesn't have the wits to see the whole lot of inconsistencies in the plot of this corporate turd of a film.
Hurt because it made Palpatine a short-sighted fool that failed to prepare before attacking the galaxy.
Helped Palpatine because he potentially possessed Rey after she killed him, and now the Palpatine bloodline has annihilated and usurped both the Skywalker and Solo bloodlines.
Edit: Of course, this ruins everything else in the saga, but I was just answering the title.
Count dooku is one of the most interesting characters in Star Wars he is extremely powerful and knowledgeable and one of the few characters to max out his potential infact had he stayed in the order Yoda May have made him the next grandmaster an as a sith hobestly only anakin a unique potential made him expendable otherwise it would be difficult to find a stringers apprentice
Let's be honest, if he was portrayed by a different actor he wouldn't be as interesting.
@@jamesh2514 He wouldn't have been as interesting to watch on screen, but if he were, say, a character in a book or comic, I think he would've still been just as great. I personally think the only thing that's missing for Dooku in the movies is just including him in the Phantom Menace (possibly sitting on the Jedi Council) so that he feels more mysterious & intentionally set up in Attack of the Clones.
AdraicStarks
Ah. Good point about Phantom. That would’ve been cool
cardinal mcqueen I love count dooku he is one of my favorite Star Wars villains if not my all time favorite villain
Indeed. The Plagueis novel further reveals Dooku as a possible apprentice in place of final choice Palpatine.
All legacy characters that appeared in the ST were damaged to some extent.
The only one that was better was C3PO....the Disney trilogy isn't cannon
@@Ro321chile He wasn't
@@Ro321chile Better no, but at least consistent for the most part lol
I hate the sequels but wrong, lando didnt have enough to damage him, r2d2 same as lando. Chewy was the only property handles character.
Ro321chile
Agreed...If I had to choose, I’d consider The Holiday Special canon over the Sequel Trilogy
"I've played along with your Jedi dueling games long enough! Now you will experience my full potency…I live as energy…I am the dark side!"
-Darth Sidious.
@Lionard Kirsch probably the novelization of TROS, but I can't guess which scene
@@darthtroller It's from Dark Empire.
@@Alarcj7 oh nice
I don't think there is anything wrong with a simple motivation. Wanting power, revenge, and control and fundamental aspects of evil and many humans fall to their seduction. You don't need any more explanation for a villain than "they want power". Like, Hitler wanted power and he started a World War. If that motive worked in real life then it's perfectly realistic in a fictional universe.
Being complex is not automatically better than being complex. If it works and makes sense, simple is perfect.
(And thank you for including my comment in your video!)
Obi-Wan Kenobi I think the prequels did humanize Palpatine since we saw a range of emotion from Sheev. The difference is that most time humanize a villain makes them sympathetic. In Palpatine’s case it was to show he wasn’t an evil monster, instead he just was an evil man who enjoyed everything he did with pride.
Here's the way I see it; Palpatine is one of those characters that cannot be ruined. Even with the sequel trilogy there's nothing there that hasn't already been done in Legends.
The reason why is because Palpatine into the space tyrants what Sauron is to fantastical dark lords; what Michael Myers is to the slasher villain; a character who defines an archetype. Palpatine, from the orginal trilogy, to the prequel trilogy, to both Legends and Disney is one of the few characters who was unchanged. And really there's no way you could subvert or deconstruct him, or his archetype in the same way the other characters where.
As stated has always been the epitome of pure evil in Star Wars, in fact he is one of the *poster boys* of the Complete Monster trope; a trope which by definition refers to a villain with no redeeming/humanzing/sympathetic qualites, and the atrocities they commit. On TV Tropes Star Wars has its own subpage for such characters in the franchise (which I'll link below for those curious) and Palpatine alone has multiple entries to his name (along with Tarkin) spanning across his roles the saga.
The point is, Palpatine was the same in the morning as he is at night, from the cradle to the grave and beyond. Palpatine wasn't so much of a character anymore so much as he is an archetype. The only real way he could be ruined is if they try to humanize him or if he overstays his welcome. This is because, really there's nothing else that can be done with his character; and giving him any real depth may take away from what made him who is is.
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Monster/StarWars?from=Monster.StarWarsExpandedUniverse
Darth Sidious aka Sheev Palpatine aka The Senate .......... aka Creamy Sheev
Sheeving Cream, hmmm
I'm starting to think without the sequels, we wouldn't have valued how evil, how charismatic Palpatine was in the OT and Prequels. Personally, I would shove the sequels away and just keep Palpy the way he is. He's an A+ all the way. To a degree, Palpatine in Dark Empire kiiiiinda lowers him down to a B+. But that's if anyone wants to follow the original EU continuation.
So you praise his inclusion in the Sequels for expanding on his evil but hate them at the same time regardless?
@@emberfist8347 Except he died to a random Jedi.
When it comes to the Disney Trilogy I think Sheev said it best, "Wipe them out, all of them."
This is Darth Bullsith of the Galactic Notification Empire! All wings, report in!
Bullsith, standing by!
Red Five standing by!
So they brought back Palpatine but Jar Jar Abrams couldn’t bring back Force ghost Anakin Skywalker to talk sense into Kylo Ren
I know right. Or any Force Ghosts in general actually being there to help Rey. Like all of them slashing Palpatine together or each individually, or even have Rey mimicking some of their signature moves in the battle, with their spirits shadowing over and fusing with her as they mimicked the move she copied.
@@zexalbrony4799 those visuals could've saved the final battle if they started off with lesser jedi and towards the end have yoda, obi-wan, mace, hell luke, and the finishing blow come from Anakin/Rey. Then, maybe the SCENE could have been saved.
You should be glad he was acknowledged at all since Duel of the Fates didn’t acknowledge him at all.
@@achaudhari101 that's like saying that someone should be glad to have his hand removed instead of his leg : in both case I'd rather not have to .
@@stormbringer2840 Lesser of two evils. Besides people who hated TLJ wouldn't have been too on board with that version of the film (Though I do wish the Battle of Coruscant on the ground was a thing).
Wish you'd mentioned he portrayal in the Clone Wars, when he was in the background he was constantly showing these creepy little smiles just to show the viewer how much he enjoyed the manipulation. And OH MY GOD the fight with Darth Maul and Savage on Mandatory is my favorite lightsaber fight in Clone Wars and possibly even all of Star Wars. The way he just seems to be toying with them, even laughing a little right as he kills Savage and just standing and watching with a grin as Maul kneels over his dying brother. My god he is amazing in the Clone Wars.
Two more things in Palpatine's favor: the Old Expanded Universe does him more justice (as it usually does), and makes him a more complete character. For anyone complaining they don't get enough insight into him or his motivations, then I *highly* recommend that they read the Old EU novel _Darth Plagueis._ You'll likely walk away satisfied. (I know Thor rightfully sung its praises in the video, but I just want to reinforce that you do get inside his head. From a sociopathic preteen all the way through the death of his master and his rise to Supreme Chancellor.)
Also, might be weird coming from me, since I usually have to be negative about The Clone Wars in order to keep it in perspective and from getting an over-inflated prestige in my fellow fans here. But I do really like that show, and Palpatine gets some props for being in the best lightsaber battle in that show. And, honestly, one of the best in the franchise.
This - the Plagueis novel is amazing. It's very well written, adds a great deal to the whole story and develops Sidious into a full character. I hope Luceno is one day brought back to do a canon version of that story.
"I AM THE SAGA" Thanks JJ.
Sincerely, Sheev.
I feel like Palpetine is an extremely strong resource misused in the sequel trilogy. Poe literally utters the words, “somehow, Palpetine returned” in TRoS, with no explanation or hint of returning prior. To me, Palpetine was always such an amazing villain because, while he was always pulling strings behind the scenes during the prequels, we (the audience) were always in on the secret. While I still give him an A as a character, the only reason he felt like himself in TRoS was because of Ian imo.
A hero is only as good as their villain and the fact that he's Been the villain of many heroes and has caused all the conflict of the entire star wars story was set in motion by him this in my mind gives him am A. The entire star wars story is a response to his existence. A grand story like star wars deserves a grand villain and Palpatine is supreme in this respect.
The sequel trilogy literally contributed nothing new or exciting to the universe and its respected characters.
Tyler Bokunewicz the Disney trilogy is pure trash
@@steevrawjers obviously it's a pile of shit melted in lava topped with sewer water
Nah. 👏👏Sequel Trilogy👏👏 and it can be expanded upon and there will be the next generations that will say otherwise.
@@achaudhari101 then the future is shit because the audience are being spoonfed bullshit propaganda instead of decent quality storytelling. Star wars was bastardized by woke politics, degrading men by making them appear foolish in front of female characters, recycling older settings and themes, and killing off original characters in the most disrespectful way while failing to build up the new characters to earn their place in fan admiration. Disney failed time and time again to try to please a small audience who is too demanding of implementing strong leftist non partisan political agendas in movies as a way of indoctrinating people into conformity targeting mainly the younger audience. If you go to a restaurant to order a steak and expecting the steak to be at least decent but end up tasting better than expected, that's positive for business all around. If you order a steak at a steakhouse and were served a vegan meal instead, you would understandably be angry and confused as to how you ended up with a vegan meal at a steakhouse. You complain to the manager and the manager gives a nasty attitude. You leave that restaurant and it slowly closes 3 months later. That's what will happen to Disney if they don't get their shit together after this crises is resolved, it's either own up their mistakes and move on to do better or perish in the process.
Tyler Bokunewicz it’s OK, Alex just takes it hard from Disney.
Really surprised no comment on the Clone Wars fight between Sidious and Maul / Savage. The sinister and horrific way he pinned the guards to the wall before entering, the fear in Maul’s face, and how handily and gleefully he took them out. Not to mention how they captured and expanded the fighting style of Palps before his face turned into forskins... Really one of the top replay lightsaber battles on my watch list and may give me goosebumps almost as much as TPM duel of fates opening scene.
It killed his legacy and desecrated all over it.
One of the worst arguments ever.
@@alechboy3578 It's not an argument, it's a statement of fact.
@@ThisHandleSystemCanGetNicked it's still bad
@@alechboy3578 Too bad. Facts don't change just because you dislike them.
@@ThisHandleSystemCanGetNicked your facts are not even facts
How can it be hurt, it's now pretty much the Palpatine Saga, he won, died doing it, but he won.
Palpatine was a smart and scary character because he could be interesting while whispering and scheming in the shadows, being so important when we didn’t even know him that well in the OT. And then in the prequels he schemed for 3 movies before we got his reveal and victory. THAT was a payoff. The sequels not only rushed his plans, unexplained and made him look like an idiot, but tried to make him a good villain by making him scream, look like a zombie and use OP lighting, basically exaggerating everything about him.
Palpatine in the prequels: hides his plan for multiple decades and slowly rises to power until the perfect moment comes
Palpatine in ROS: tells everyone his plan and gives then time to respond...
When a moviemaker makes a villain without real motivation then take Palpatine as inspiration.
I imagine Joker and Bane from the Christopher Nolan trilogy as equals in that aspect
@@emberfist8347 you're right about Bane but Joker was just a nihilistic incarnation of the devil who acted on instinct, he had a goal but no true motivation, we still don't understand why he doesn't want to watch the world burn
Chewbacca. I don't want him scored near the end of this long list of characters.
Jeff Edburg go check the pinned comment and add him if you don’t find him there. Thor won’t consider this comment, since it’s not a response to his pinned comment.
Let's remember that the actor brings so much to him.
Usually, villains who just are evil for the sake of being evil are bland- but for The Senate, it just works. So. Damn. Well. DOIT
I went to a Comic Con that Ian was at a few years ago. My then 6 year old went up to him in his Darth Vader costume, bowed down on one knee, and called him "My master". Ian replied with "Rise, Lord Vader" in his Palpatine voice. It was legit the coolest moment ever for my child (and me! Lol).
That's awesome :)
If you consider the ST, his long game plan was silly, especially the execution. Yet, I gotta give him an A because I love how addicted he is to reining over the galaxy. He uses whoever and whatever to accomplish that goal. He’s just plain evil.
I just wish we saw him and Force Ghost Anakin have at least some dialogue exchange in TRoS. One solid scene of those two could have done wonders for the ST. Sigh.
KENOBI HOLDS THE HIGH GROUND
I loved Palpatine even in Rise of Skywalker and I thought he was terrifying in that movie and I honestly didn't mind his presence
Me too, nobody complained when Palpatine returned in Legends. Palpatine was ultra creepy in The Rise Of Skywalker.
@@dereklopez9060 Yeah I got thrills watching him in it just seeing McDiarmid bring him to life once more. Sure we could all tear that film apart, but there was a lot of fun with it and he helped make that.
0:10 you forgot aka "Do it"
It hurt a lot to the entire SAGA, specially in the sequel trilogy making it now the Palpatine SAGA instead of the Skywalker SAGA. He was the only villain to be in the 9 movies, plus a Palpatine was the one who truly defeated him not a Skywalker.
Family is the one thing that is prevalent in all three trilogies.
@@achaudhari101 yup and in the end the palpatine family won .
@@stormbringer2840 exactly.
@@stormbringer2840 I consider it as reforging your identity but okay.
@@achaudhari101 But why freaking skywalker ? She got what ? three days with luke ? Why not pay hommage to your teacher , the first father figure that you had and the man that saved your life by taking the name of Solo ? It makes no sense it go against what leia taught her ( about not fear who you were ) and the Name she choose doesn't even make sense .
I have seen the original 3, Phantom Menace and a few bits and pieces of prequel 2 and 3. I have see TFA and nothing else from the sequels.
So, Palpatine in my eyes is a brilliant character. He was a menace in the original 3 and conveyed the right sense of danger to server as the main villain. And he was the high point in Phantom Menace. I literally giggled when he as first introduced in that movie and admired his manipulation of all involved parties to his own benefit. My respect grew through the entire movie.
I think the he evolved from a simple evil villain (in the original 3) to an all controlling mastermind (in the prequels). His evolution in the prequels was like watching the one scene from Lord of the Rings 1 where the Balrog emerges from the shadows, unfolds his wings and screams in rage at the Fellowship across the chasm. It literally describes the evolution of Palpatine in the prequels in that one scene and has about the same amazing impact.
Thor this video was great. Thank you... again.
Did he fool the Jedi? In the clone wars, you can really see that the Jedi had lost their way, and had really become henchmen or the brute muscle for the Senate (essentially palpatine).
The expulsion and condemnation of Ahsoka, the continuous lying to Anakin (the "death" of kenobi, it cannot be overstated how wrong that was), to even the fear and suspicion to the point of confining Yoda so that Anakin had to free him for his journey to Moraband.
It leads one to believe that perhaps it was the will of the force for Anakin to cull off many of those force users who had simply become clones with force powers.
Which is also a culmination of the rise in the dark side of the force built by the Sith over the space of 1000 years, and which Sidious was the benefactor.
To me Darth Sidious, Emperor Palpatine, died by Anakin Skywalker on the Death Star, end of story. There is no return. No Snoke. And no Sequel Trilogy in this point at my opinion. They are just movies of another universe.
If you're a real fan this is your only opinion
@Nick Perez There is no such thing as a “Real Fan”. That’s gatekeeping nonsense.
@@achaudhari101 There is no such thing as "sequel trilogy" just a soft reboot of star wars ( and remake of the OT)
Kenobi in the top of the list:
I see no god on the high ground
*Other than ME*
Do you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Sidious the Devil. I thought so it’s not a story the Jedi would tell you. Darth Sidious was so wise and so powerful he could manipulate the republic into destroying there protectors and becoming the very thing they swore to destroy. His only weakness was his overconfidence what was his undoing. Ironic he used the overconfidence of the Jedi to destroy them but the same thing destroyed him.
i agree, there was a way to bring back palpatine in a somewhat cool way
wouldve been contrived but id like to hear the audio clip of him saying the dark side grants powers that some consider to be unnatural right before a big reveal thats been set up well
Palpatine the man? Done a serious blow by this trilogy. If you can forgive what is going to be a long comment, let’s break it down:
Palpatine as we see him in Lucas Star Wars, is a genius. The man was playing 4-D chess for years while the galaxy was playing Hungry Hungry Hippos. His only error in six films is not believing his partner for 20 years, the man he trained and basically groomed from childhood, the man who was basically a cripple compared to himself, would be able to betray him.
Palpatine in Disney Wars? A moron. He gives the galaxy a warning that he’s alive and will return. He initiated his Body-Swap plan at the same time as his Return-And-Reconquer-the-Galaxy plan. Why? He could’ve swooped in with his fleet, won the day, and then worried about his new body. He kept Rey alive even after getting his rejuvenated body. Why not just yeet her into the pit with Kylo at that point? And maybe the most idiotic, he kept zapping Rey when it was literally killing him. Palpatine the genius manipulator obviously lost some brain cells in the DS2 explosion.
Palpatine’s Legacy? Bolstered. The Skywalkers are dead and eclipsed. His granddaughter (or I guess if her father is a clone of Sheev, technically his biological daughter?) is the only one left to reclaim and reshape the galaxy. His bloodline eclipsed his enemy and even usurped their name.
If there’s a Force hell, Palpy is laughing his ass off there right now.
You know it was 30 years of doing what he did right? He wanted to create a monarchy for the Sith to return. I don’t consider him a moron if he wanted to wait until someone strong in the Force can rejuvenate his body.
Alex Chaudhari He knew about Rey almost as soon as she was born though. He didn’t know where she was, but he knew she was out there, and a suitable host for his spirit. But ok, let’s say he did need to wait all that time to strike out on his plans.
It is not intelligent to give your enemies a warning before making what would be a kill stroke. Had he not announced himself, he could have sent out a Death Star Destoryer to every planet in the galaxy, maybe blow a few up before anyone knows what the hell is happening, and won the day right there. Once he was back in charge, then he can focus on swapping bodies. Doing both plans at the same time is too many things to juggle, especially with something so important.
Rey got her Abilities from her Strong Independent Mother, Not Gimp Sheev Clone Jr.
@@vnom84 He told them what was to happen but he didn't tell his enemies that he had a shitload of Star Destroyers. That to me at least would have been moronic if he did that. Palpatine did all of the clones and setting up the First/Final Order because remember the New Republic was so incompetent that they were stupid to not know what was going on at the time. Technology is faster in Star wars than in real life.
Jar Jar Binks, if only to have more than just a bunch of 4s across the board: I want to see how we as a Fanbase feel post sequel trilogy and with nearly 2 decades of hindsight and personal growth. I fluctuate to be honest. With all of the theories behind his character and old hatred, it would be interesting to see where we all stand.
Obi Wan in this pole: I have the highground
Palps‘s reaction: Ironic
It would have been perfect for a Mountain Dew advert where they had Palpatine say "Do it!" in it. The way he said it in Revenge of the Sith sounds like "Dew it!" as in Mountain Dew.
10:08 Feels being chosen :)
Palpatine ranks below Ahsoka: It’s treason then.
On your comment "so corrupted by the dark side for the sake of being evil" this could have tied into your next survey....... Maybe we could have seen some of that Evil in the Force pulling the characters exploring the force and the whills and medichlorians lore deeper like george wanted to go originally wanted
He said it as soon as I read your comment
I can't believe that in a video about the ultimate Sith seen onscreen, one of the absolute best lightsaber duels of all time wasn't mentioned. No. I'm not talking about Yoda V Palpatine which was nice, but the battle from the Clone Wars on Mandalore. From, "Hmm. I sense a presence. A presence I haven't ...felt since...MASTER, till "There is no mercy. Do not worry, I'm not going to kill you. I have...OTHER uses for you...
Please everyone let's do Revan!!!
That’s not even a contest. He gets an A from everyone
This trilogy should be quietly placed on the shelf right next to the Holiday Special and mentioned only as trivia.
Great discussion. Rise of Skywalker gave us a caricature of the saga's arguably best character but thankfully didn't ruin Palpatine/Sidious.
I am not getting notified for any of the polls! What the heck YT?!
People say a main character is only as good as their antagonist, but an antagonist can suffer if the antagonist has a bad protagonist (im refering about Rey)...
Movie Anakin is not nearly as good as the Clone Wars, but its the fact he was manipulated that made Palpatine better
I would love to see an episode on Cad Bane, the (in my opinion) best bounty hunter in all of star wars, in all aspects.
As far as Palps goes, he is one of, if not my, favorite character in all of Star Wars. He is the ultimate bad guy, and even though his return was rocky at best, I'm okay thinking of the series as a 9 film saga about Palpatine AND Skywalkers. You can never have one without the other in my opinion.
Rise of Skywalker reduced Palpatine to a generic evil villain. He did and said nothing you wouldn't see in a bad Marvel film.
I always figured Dooku was too confused and shocked (at Palpatine's betrayal and also his defeat and the loss of his hands) to out Palpatine.
For dooku there is two logical reasons that he would not rat out palpatine :
-He already did with obi wan in episode 2 and he didn't believe him why would anakin believe him now ?
-THis would serve no purpose since there is no one in the room that CAN take palpatine down , anakin isn't strong enough yet and obi wan is down .
I find Palpatine aka Darth Sidious is the Voldemort of SW franchise as he the most evil person that been with him since a teenager and killed his father and he family just like He Who Must Not Be Named.
He who must not be named his Palpatine's master, as soon as you pronounce his name the entire Prequelmemes subreddit starts the monologue, including me
Do you mean Bruno?
I thought Dooku was just so shocked at Palpatine's betrayal. If Anakin had spared his life and lowered his lightsaber I think Dooku would have talked but then Palpatine would have likely tried to (and would probably succeeded in) killed Dooku, Anakin and Obi-wan and switched to some plan B...
Legends explained everything for palatine and his motives
Can you rank mace windu
*"I think people over emphasize the importance of the canon level.* The intent of the canon levels was, as the main intent was 'if someones looking for the ships from a film, they can than use those fields to check for them only in the films,and thus seperate that from what was in the EU. So we can look at it case by case. *I think there is an over emphasis of what those fields mean and what they represent."* ~ Leland Chee
Could you do Qui-Gon at some point ?
14:26
This guy basically summed up what I think about Palpatine, and I think Ian Mcdiarmid gets the credit for that.
just out of curiosity, what would you guys want to see(if anything) in a young palpatine film? besides the obvious inclusion of plagueis and sheevs budding dark side abilities. i think it’d be cool to see their relationship and palp eclipsing his master in terms of cunning and savagery without compromising what makes he character awesome.
I gave Palpatine a B based on how horribly his character was written for TROS. I did the same thing for Luke based on TLJ. I can already see that the only characters who wind up in the top five once this list is fairly comprehensive will be characters who did not appear in the sequels (beyond tiny voice roles).
No mentions of him in the clone wars? His further manipulation of anakin, but MOSTLY of the clone war, and then I'd course his fight vs maul and oppress?? I didnt read every comment, cuz I missed the poll, of course... but I'm kinda shocked no comments about that, or perhaps at least in this wrap up video, about his role in that show...
Idk if you can do anything about this but I don’t always get your poll questions
Dooku kept his silence part because of respect, part of because he froze in fear.
we usually talk about the Fight or Flight response, but adrenalin can cause 1 of 3 responses: Fight, Flight *or Freeze*.
Plus honestly from dooku's perspective nothing would change :
-They would probably not believe him .
-If they believe him sidious would simply kill them
I’ll give Vader a A, although he would probably be at a high b if it were for the sudden no’s in the newer versions of return of a Jedi, but I like to think I’m watching the original version of the film. Vader is always such a menacing character with deep emotions & over all these years his character has remained consistent even with Disney’s acquisition of Lucasfilm. He really shines in The OT & is bad-ass in the final sequence in rogue one. How I like to view his character arc is the fall of Anikan, Rise of Vader, & Anikan’s return. His previous life as Anikan Skywalker gives him that much more depth. In my eyes, & also to loosely quote George Lucas “ This saga is all about Anikan, it’s his arc through the entire saga” and in a way, the prophecy was for filled in the end, but then Disney had to make his redemption effectively useless through the sequel trilogy’s conception. Vader will forever be one of the greatest villains of All time, among Thanos, his master palpatine, & joker in the dark knight.
If Darth Sidious hadn't been brought back in the Rise of Skywalker, he would have gotten a much better score. The same thing would have happened if they had brought Obi-Wan into the picture for the sequel trilogy. They would have found the way to even fuck him up.
My favorite thing about Palpatine is he was an absolute genius every time 2 steps a head of everyone yet the only thing he ever overlooked was people's good nature, every time his plans were almost soil it was because of someone selflessness, like when fives almost busted the order 66 because he wanted to save his friend and brother Tup and then was willing to risk himself to reveal the sith plot or when trying to corrupt Yoda in season 6 but failing because of Yod's willingness to sacrifice himself and finally his defeat in Return of the Jedi was because Anakin's made the ultimate sacrifice for his son. The maximum selfish villain defeated by an act of selflessness.
That's why I didn't like his defeat in RoTS because they took this defeat based on a character flaw and a poetic way to end the epic struggle of the compassionate Jedi vs the selfish sith and turned it into basically "my Kamehameha is bigger's than yours".
The ST did something truly truly impressive... it made Palpy boring and generic and suffering from a bad case of STUPID villain syndrome. Like Palpy's plans within Plans is foregone for, I've announced my comeback before all my ships are ready,
Boring and generic? Nah fam. Palpatine as far as “stupid villain syndrome” is concerned, he did that innROTJ when he sent his Imperial Royal Guards out of the throne room when they could have saved him when Vader was throwing him down the shaft.
Either Vader, Yoda, Dooku, Griveous (legends), Han (how may just dethrone Obi-Wan Kenobi), Leia or just as an "experiment" (so we can go from master to student) Mara Jade
I really liked Sidious in ST. Was convincing for me
Hey Thor, what about Cade Skywalker? I’m curious to see how he would rank & you’re thoughts on him & the era
"They just got it wrong. Bad people do not walk around with claws like vicious monsters, even though it might be comforting to think so. Everyone intelligent knows that evil comes along with a smiling face."
*-Oliver Hirschbiegel, "Downfall" movie director*
Modern Hollywood is reluctant or incapable of understanding the mindsets of characters like old Palps. He's not just a random force of evil, zapping fleets and killing puppies for the lulz, free will applies to him as well. With his free will he chose to do and maintain evil and destructive acts, while beguiling or threatening others into doing the same, typically to further his own goals. The heroes don't oppose him just because they're on the "Light Side", they oppose him to stop him from doing all that evil stuff again.
This was probably what George Lucas was thinking or trying to convey in the Prequel trilogy, unfortunately the reception to those films sort of made it fly under the radar. Or people just don't WANT to hear that message.
Palpatine was a genius villain. He got into a position of power, blamed all of his war efforts with the Separatists onto the jedi, convinced the entire universe that the jedi were evil (what sealed that deal was Mace Windu's failed attempt in subduing him, he painted this as them trying to silence Palpatine), and had dear little Anakin under his thumb. His plans were crumbled twice in the prequel era, once because the Rebels managed to blow up the Death Star, the second time was Vader trying to protect his only son and backstabbed the father he never had. First was out of his control, the second being that it was difficult to predict emotions.
Now, onto the Disney era... his failures were erased. Not only that... but apparently he PLANNED on having the Death Star blow up TWICE, and being backstabbed by his loyal puppet... in order to go into hiding to amass literal thousands fleets equipped with the death star weaponry, making the whole purpose of the Death Star moot. Somehow, NOBODY noticed the zillion dollar bill for all that bullshit, as well as having a base to hide ALL of this, as well as HIRING PERSONNELS TO PILOT EVERY SINGLE FUCKING SHIP. But let's say he somehow managed to pull that bullshit off... the most retarded thing he could have done in this position was to announce the entire universe that he was about to attack. Which he fucking did. The rebellion would have stood NO CHANCE in hell had Paly implemented a simple little plan called BLITZKRIEG. The First Order is already using nazi imagery, why not go all the way and have them fight like ones too. Overwhelming power, all charging at their bases one by one, hit the rebellion where it hurts real bad to the point nobody in the galaxy could think about going against the First Order. That's what the REAL Palpatine done in that position: the entire galaxy would be in his literal palm while having snuffed out the jedi for good.
Or better yet... how about NOT doing all that waste of time, and instead just fucking kill Luke and Vader at the same time, as well call in for heavier reinforcements to crush the Rebels right then and there. Why the fuck would he just let it happen if he knew it was going to happen? Disney Palpatine's plan makes no sense whatsoever, which ruins Palpatine's character. Should have just left him dead, his time on the spotlight was already done.
Palpatine: I am the Senate.
Me: I am Revan reborn. And before me you are nothing.
the sequel trilogy made us wonder. Is there some hidden menace even greater than the Sith? Who is Snoke? Who or what was capable of turning Luke into Jake? Is it The Son? Is it Darth Plagueis? Is it Jar Jar Binks?! Is it some godlike being who controls the power of both Light and Darkness? Nah. It was Palpatine all along. I really like the character of Palpatine and I'm not saying that his return is such a bad idea in and of itself. I could have made for a great Episode 7. But retconning everything from Episode 7 and 8 back to Pulps in Ep 9? Replacing all the Skywalkers with Rey??! Not cool at all. We were promised some kind of epic resolution which would tie together all 9 episodes and we were cheated.
The pursuit of power is a very common flaw and pursuit in human nature. That IS being human, or being in general. Sauron seeks power for power's sake. Satan himself desires more power, and his fall due to his pride knowing he can't have it
I'm curious about something; what do people actually think of Palpatine's line "I _am_ the senate"? All the memes, & general prequel hate make it hard for me to tell what people's thoughts are on that moment. For me, it was probably his scariest moment in the whole franchise. It's the moment where he completely drops the facade, & makes it clear to the Jedi Masters confronting him that they've already lost. It's a line that's just absolutely dripping with power, but not just his own immense power with the Dark Side, but the real power he's accrued; his complete domination of the entire political system of the galaxy. A lot of people talk about his cackling during his duel with Yoda as the point where he knows he's won regardless of whether he's beaten in combat, but it was all over long before that. If Mace & the Jedi had killed or arrested Palpatine in that moment, it would've been over for the Jedi order.
The next character you should do should be a prequel/Clone Wars villain. Such as Dooku, Grievous or Ventress.